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02:43:44guawooHi , I got error "could not load: (ssleay64|libssl64).dll" when use nimble on windows
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12:13:46girvoHey all
12:14:18girvoQuick question: how would you go about implement a function that took a variable number of arguments, all of which implemented a "destroy" method?
12:14:28girvoproc*
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12:17:00ArrrrEither you use inheritance or concepts http://nim-lang.org/docs/manual.html#generics-concepts
12:18:21Arrrrplus varargs, or maybe openarray
12:32:14girvoArrrr: nice one, cheers :)
12:32:31girvoNow, how the hell do I use sdl2.queryTexture lol
12:32:53girvohttp://hastebin.com/upatiropuc.nim
12:33:11girvoMost examples pass NULL as the first couple params: https://wiki.libsdl.org/SDL_QueryTexture
12:33:28Arrrryou can use nil
12:34:51girvoI tried, it whinges :P
12:35:31girvomake
12:35:33girvooops
12:35:34girvoWrong window
12:36:03ArrrrI have no idea of sdl, so i can only guess, which error does it display
12:36:30girvohttp://hastebin.com/suhipijelo.sm
12:36:53girvoI think because Nim's type system is less loosey-goosey than C's I need to be a bit more specific with my calls
12:37:15coffeepoti think u can cast[ptr uint32](nil)?
12:38:10Arrrrthe last two arguments are prtr cint, not cint
12:38:19Arrrr*ptr cint
12:39:06Arrrruse addr(myCint) to get it
12:39:12girvonice!
12:39:14girvoCheers
12:39:27girvoI couldn't remember the syntax for a ptr for the life of me :)
12:39:47coffeepotah didn't see that, glad u didnt have to cast tbh
12:40:20girvoHint: operation successful (22467 lines compiled; 0.375 sec total; 28.286MB; Debug Build) [SuccessX]
12:40:23girvoChampion! Cheers
12:40:45girvoFunnily coffeepot, the last time I went through this stuff and tried to play with SDL, I think I _did_ do it with casts lol
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12:41:17girvoI'm doing a direct conversion of the C++ in http://www.willusher.io/sdl2%20tutorials/2013/08/17/lesson-2-dont-put-everything-in-main/
12:41:28Arrrrdoes it run tho?
12:41:32girvoAnd then am going to go and make it all nice idiomatic Nim later as a learning exercise :)
12:41:49girvoArrrr: about to find out
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12:43:20coffeepoti've often thought we could do with a more nim-like wrapper around the sdl wrapper
12:43:48coffeepotcan't think of a good way to do it tho
12:44:16ArrrrBlaXpirit did csfml, but i dont know if it still works
12:44:27BlaXpiritworks
12:44:36Arrrri think sfml is better than sdl, more friendly i mean
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12:44:49girvoIt is more friendly, yup
12:44:58BlaXpiritthere is that one issue, never gonna be resolved
12:45:10girvoBut I'm doing SDL as a challenge more than anything else. I've been playing with it on and off for about 12 months
12:47:10girvocoffeepot: I think there is a nice idiomatic nim architecture to be found for SDL2, but it's a bit of a big task
12:47:35girvoAnd honestly once you've got your rendering stuff in place you hardly touch it if you can avoid it anyway
12:47:43coffeepoti find sdl fairly straightforward just having to play with the C types irksome, haven't had a good look at csfml. Blaxpirit what's the 'one issue'?
12:48:00girvocoffeepot: It uses the experimental destructors, basically
12:48:05coffeepotah
12:48:26girvoWhich are a RAII-ish kind of thing that don't play nice with the GC iirc
12:48:33girvoWell, more shared_ptr-ish
12:49:10coffeepotyeah i had problems with them myself when writing the odbc library
12:53:12coffeepotended up using addQuitProc to run finalisers
12:57:50ArrrrBtw, is it possible to hook ctr-c ?
13:04:20girvoMan I need to go to bed. Catch you all tomorrow :)
13:04:27girvoAnd thanks for the help! addr is a life-saver
13:04:46girvoNow I've got to work out how I'm going to implement reference counting in Nim ;)
13:04:57girvo(I kid... sort of)
13:05:15coffeepoti thought ref is basically reference counting
13:05:57coffeepotbut good night :)
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13:32:53Arrrrsweet prince
13:33:05coffeepothaha XD
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16:03:02Arrrrcoffeepot: do you know anything about this new garbage collector?
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16:04:57Araqhey.
16:05:09Araqit is better :P
16:06:30ArrrrBetter than what?
16:06:59coffeepothey Arrrr - no I don't! There's a new GC?
16:08:39ArrrrThis is all that i know https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/commit/a1739455d39507bb27c3a125d97ff9870037f772
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16:33:34coffeepotinteresting times!
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16:54:38AraqArrrr: it is faster
16:57:17ArrrrThis GC is not the default, is it?
16:57:37Araqit will become the new default
16:57:42Araqeventually
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17:00:10ArrrrI'm glad to hear that, sometimes it seems like nothing is happening, but actually there is some work in the shadows
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17:05:15dom96There is always work in the shadows :P
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17:17:04cryzedI need some help being convinced... if you can put it that way. I'm primarily a Python guy (github.com/cryzed), it pretty much does everything I want. For a long time I felt like exploring other languages, and I've been considering Nim for a while. The problem is, I know that actually properly learning a new language -- to the degree that I know Python, will probably take months. Would you guys think it's fair to describe Nim as a "faster
17:17:04cryzedPython"? It certainly seems similar syntax-wise, and I quite like the idea. I've also read that Nim was designed as a language for games somewhere, but not seen any indication in the docs for that being the case. I'm not sure what I'm asking in the end really, I just would hate to waste my time on something I'll really dislike a few weeks in. Sorry if this question seems idiotic, because it certainly sounds that way to me
17:19:04reactormonkcryzed, we can only give you reassurance to try it.
17:19:21cryzedI suppose that is what I'm asking for in a roundabout way
17:19:38cryzedhow have you been liking it, reactormonk? Have you published/made any bigger projects with it?
17:20:07ArrrrIt is true than nim is a lot faster than python, and probably if you like python but need more speed, nim is for you.
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17:20:20ArrrrBut i dont think nim is the faster cousin of python
17:20:50cryzedAh putting it that way is of course a bit strange, I realize that they are _entirely_ different languages
17:20:59cryzedbut the "if you like Python"-part speaks to me
17:21:00cryzed;)
17:21:03reactormonkcryzed, nah, just hacked around in the language. https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/commits?author=reactormonk
17:21:32cryzedah :)
17:21:43ArrrrWith that i dont mean that if you like python you will enjoy nim, but that if you need something close to python but faster, probably nim is the first in the queue
17:22:14nchambersnim has more distinct generators which is nice
17:23:10ArrrrNim is strong typing where python is weak, that can show you how different they are in their soul
17:23:37cryzedYep. Regarding tooling, do people use Aporia?
17:23:57cryzedOr is it mostly Sublime Text with the NimLime plugin? Not sure where to start
17:24:09cryzedI would love autocompletion though, especially for a new language where I'm not familiar with the stdlib
17:24:26Araqafaict sublime text or atom are the default choices now
17:25:04AraqI know for sure the atom plugin is really nice, not only giving you autocomplete but also on the fly checking
17:25:31cryzedthat would be awesome if I didn't really dislike Atom. I love ST3 though, and I'll try the NimLime plugin
17:25:54Araqok
17:26:14cryzedAraq, but thank you for the suggestion of course
17:26:16cryzedI didn't mean to be rude
17:27:48reactormonkcryzed, there's also a nim-mode for emacs
17:29:07cryzedI've never used emacs or vim, and I know that attempting to learn a new language while learning a new editor framework -- because that's what they are afaict -- would break my neck
17:29:10cryzedbut thank you :)
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17:29:59bblAraq: hard real time gc?
17:29:59reactormonkcryzed, eh, that was just some shameless self-promotion
17:30:14bbldo you have some references you base that on?
17:30:16cryzedreactormonk, ah :D
17:30:19ArrrrIn my opinion, precisely because you want to learn you should avoid autocomplete features. That way you'll be forced to get familiarized with docs
17:30:28cryzedbbl, the latest commit in the nim repio
17:30:30cryzed*-i
17:30:36reactormonkArrrr, the autocomplete gives you a nice way to look them up though
17:30:42cryzedArrrr, ^
17:30:44bblcryzed: I mean technical papers
17:30:48cryzedah ok
17:30:56bblI don't think that kind of stuff just "comes to mind"
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17:32:27bblthere was a description in the file :P
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17:35:37Arrrri dont think you are right, but maybe that's because i use notepad++ and i feel the need to justify me
17:36:39pigmejcryzed: well, In some places nim isn't faster than python
17:36:49cryzedpigmej, as in development time?
17:37:03pigmejwell, pypy is damn fast
17:37:11pigmejyou said python so I assume all tricks allowed
17:37:16cryzedah, true. But the Python 3 support is shit
17:37:20pigmejalso python+cffi is also fast
17:37:23pigmejpython3 is shit :)
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17:37:27pigmejlet's say this wide and open
17:37:27cryzedI disagree
17:37:31cryzed:)
17:37:36pigmejYOu have a rights to disagree :)
17:37:45pigmejI have the rights to disagree with your disagreement:p
17:37:47cryzedpigmej, why do you dislike it?
17:37:50pigmejpy3 ?
17:37:52cryzedyep
17:37:56cryzedbecause it's slower?
17:37:58pigmejyup, worst that could happen in python wolrd
17:38:00pigmejworld
17:38:04cryzedor because it split the community?
17:38:04pigmejno because it just shouldn't happen
17:38:16pigmejbad marketing, bad decisions
17:38:24cryzedbad marketing maybe, but better than bad unicode
17:38:25pigmejfocus on incorrect parts of language
17:38:37cryzedand with the new asyncio stuff adaption will improve, im sure
17:38:50pigmejI hope not, asyncio should not exist
17:39:01pigmejit's just yet another a bit broken async implementation
17:39:10pigmejit's just waste of resources in current state
17:39:22pigmejinstead of fixing real problems like:
17:39:22pigmej- broken packaging
17:39:27pigmej- usually broken pip
17:39:46pigmej- integration with other C libs (cffi is not a python fundation project)
17:39:49pigmejetc
17:40:02cryzedIsn't pip pretty usable with wheels?
17:40:15cryzedPackaging still isn't nice, I agree
17:40:18pigmejdepends what do you mean by usable :)
17:40:24cryzedHow is pip broken for you
17:40:25pigmejIt crashes daily
17:40:27cryzedI've rarely run into problem
17:40:28cryzeds
17:40:45pigmejwell, you can easily install 2 versions of the same package
17:40:49cryzeddo you install new modules daily? I manage them with PyCharm for a new project, and that usually takes a few minutes then I'm done
17:40:54pigmejyou can also easily have broken env just 'by random' error
17:40:56ephjait's slower?
17:41:05cryzedephja, generally it's slower than Python 2
17:41:13pigmejcryzed: the common case package X requires A>=2, but Y requires<=1.9
17:41:16ephjain any case, the overhead often does not matter
17:41:21cryzedephja, yep
17:41:22pigmejand you can throw a coin what will win :)
17:41:35ephjathough I don't see any benefits of dynamic languages over (modern) statically typed languages
17:41:38cryzedpigmej, I'll be honest. I've never had to deal with that issue
17:41:58pigmejor milion ways to include 3rd party package path
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17:42:16cryzedYou mean modifying sys.path at runtime etc.?
17:42:20pigmejo
17:42:21pigmejno
17:42:30pigmejI mean putting links into site-packages
17:42:31cryzedoh still talking about pip, sorry
17:42:32pigmejadding .path files
17:42:35cryzedah
17:42:36pigmej*pth
17:42:39cryzedyes, that's very confusing
17:42:39pigmejand this things
17:42:49pigmejwell, it's not confusing it's just broken by design
17:43:08pigmejand when you have egg (they still exist), and wheel and source distribution... :)
17:43:36cryzedpigmej, I agree it's really confusing. I just create a sdist when I released one of my packages and was done with it
17:44:02pigmejcryzed: that's what I mean by incorrect focus
17:44:12pigmejor type hinting which is just stupidity
17:44:37cryzedthe implementation is stupid imho, the concept itself isn't necessarily. But specially formated docstrings/comments would have done just as well
17:44:41cryzedas they are it's pretty ugly
17:45:02ephjaspeaking of which, per-project installations with nimble would be great
17:45:12pigmejephja: it's already av afair
17:45:21pigmejwhen you link to version it will include correct version
17:45:36pigmejthere is one place of packages but yuo can have multiple versions
17:46:25cryzedWait, does the windows distribution of nim ship with Mingw64?
17:46:28cryzedWhy did I install it manually then :<
17:46:43ephjaor maybe --nimbledir can be used for that
17:50:19dom96I'm always curious to hear people's use cases for per-project installations.
17:50:29dom96ephja: why do you wish for that feature?
17:50:40pigmejdom96: it's python related probably
17:50:51pigmejdom96: for me it was also "weird"
17:51:18ephjano it's probably not needed
17:51:24dom96"<pigmej> [17:41:13] cryzed: the common case package X requires A>=2, but Y requires<=1.9" how should this problem be solved?
17:51:55dom96pigmej: Yeah, that's why I always ask people why they feel it is necessary
17:52:15pigmejdom96: well in python it's just not solved at all
17:52:31ephjaby checking the required versions and then adding the correct dir to the path?
17:52:34pigmejit will usually install both, and remove one, or maybe not, because pip is stupid
17:52:51dom96A thing to keep in mind is that nimble handles multiple versions of the same package perfectly fine.
17:52:54ephjabut perhaps it's not possible now
17:53:01pigmejand therefore for python there is `yolk` which will scan all possible ways of having packages, and show you them
17:53:11dom96You just can't have package A depending on both Package B v0.1 and Package B v0.2
17:53:25federico3dom96: ...which is a good thing
17:53:29pigmejsure :)
17:53:31pigmejit's just perfect :)
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17:53:37dom96Good :)
17:54:21ephjano but two separate dependencies could
17:54:29Araqbbl: well that's just the internal name for it.
17:54:45ephjabut I've never had to manage huge, complicated projects
17:54:45Araqit's not "hard" realtime, but it's not "soft" either
17:55:33dom96ephja: yeah, but as long as a certain package is pretty flexible with its dependency specification it will be fine (>= 0.1 and >= 0.2)
17:55:35Araqso ... we need a word for it, perhaps. if you test a bit and play according to its rules it's hard realtime.
17:55:46cryzedhm the nimlime autocompletion doesn't work for st3 :<
17:56:11dom96Once a package specifies that PackageB's version must be exactly 0.1 then bad things will happen
17:56:19federico3many attempts of supporting multiple dependencies quickly led to horror stories in many organizations because it removes the need to keep libraries backward compatible for a reasonable time
17:56:45bblAraq: half realtime just like boners? :D
17:56:45dom96(I find explaining these scenarios in English incredibly difficult)
17:58:00ephjaand when a new major version is released?
17:58:09ephjathough it's always a good idea to have unit tests
17:58:27ephjabbl: please elaborate :p
17:58:47bblephja: bad joke that doesn't really translate that well
17:59:22cryzedah my fault, I didnt install nimsuggest
18:04:04cryzedhttp://i.imgur.com/l0fr1iv.png any ideas?
18:05:16cryzedthe directory exists, I checked
18:05:35bblcryzed: wrong OS
18:05:57cryzedbbl, you mean nim being available for windows as binaries doesn't make it a first-class OS?
18:06:13cryzedif Windows is the wrong OS, then nim is the wrong language for me
18:06:18cryzedbut I doubt that's the case
18:06:34bblcryzed: bad joke again
18:06:48cryzedbbl, I overreacted a bit, it just seemed really snarky
18:07:05cryzedah huh, it might be...
18:07:05cryzedwait
18:08:29cryzedI guess I'll have to check the code
18:08:56dom96cryzed: Nim's Windows support is very good, better than Python I would say actually.
18:09:11dom96bbl: Please don't make such jokes here.
18:09:32cryzeddom96, apparently Nimble's isn't. Hm, or maybe I have to pull the latest revision from the repo and build it manually
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18:09:56bbldom96: yeah
18:10:25cryzedbut I am using 0.6.2
18:10:26dom96cryzed: The latest revision sometimes contains vital fixes so it's worth a try.
18:10:31cryzedalright
18:10:38dom96but let me take a look at your screenshot first heh
18:10:41cryzeddom96, thank you
18:11:08cryzedwell compiling nimble worked
18:12:18dom96cryzed: hrm, afraid I'm not sure. I still consider nimsuggest unstable, cloning the nimsuggest repo manually and compiling it using the file here: https://github.com/nim-lang/nimsuggest/blob/master/compile_without_nimble.nims might work better
18:13:04dom96Sorry about that.
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18:13:35Araqbbl: it is supposed to be superb for games.
18:13:53bblAraq: sounds cool :P
18:14:32Araqwhere you test for "acceptable" behaviour and it's not about "provable" behaviour. if you need to prove stuff, IMHO GCs are the wrong choice to begin with
18:15:03Araqsince you have a hard time proving you will never run out of memory
18:15:03cryzeddom96, still thank you
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18:15:08dom96cryzed: I would try and install it on my machine but have to leave in like 2 minutes :(
18:15:37cryzeddom96, that's alright -- I'll keep trying -- now the compile_without_nimble
18:15:45cryzedI appreciate it though, thank you very much
18:15:52dom96cryzed: No worries! Hope you stick around!
18:15:54dom96See you guys
18:16:06cryzedI will :)
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18:42:08cryzedhuh, looks like the latest few commits of nimsuggest are completely broken. Functions are missing, getModule, isTracked etc.
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18:47:57cryzedhttps://github.com/nim-lang/nimsuggest/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=isTracked how is it possible that everyone has managed to compile this?
18:49:29ephjaAraq: could you merge with echo-flush? the patch should be correct now
18:51:35ephjaare you working on interesting stuff again? :-)
18:51:53cryzedah I found the latest compilable version here: https://github.com/nim-lang/nimsuggest/commit/22ceeb9bc59a88392221f14f14bd744462f29c25
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19:15:20Araqcryzed: it requires nim devel
19:15:27Araqand for me it works
19:15:44Araqephja: ok, let's see
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20:10:09ephjacan SSL sockets be tested without paying for a certificate?
20:11:04def-ephja: you could self-sign a certificate I guess
20:14:21NimBotnim-lang/Nim devel 61086b8 Erik Johansson Andersson [+0 ±1 -0]: flush after printing
20:14:21NimBotnim-lang/Nim devel 59d1bc7 Andreas Rumpf [+0 ±1 -0]: Merge pull request #3605 from ephja/echo-flush... 2 more lines
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20:15:36ephjaone step closer towards world domination
20:16:13ephjadef-: thanks. it makes sense, and it appears to be simple
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20:26:54ephjaI didn't think to look in the net module too
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21:36:18cryzedAraq, how is it po
21:36:29cryzedssible that it works for you, even with the dev version of Nim? Symbols are missing in the source files
21:36:42ldleworkephja: sure you can sign your own certs
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21:52:46ephjaldlework: someone answered. it seems to work
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22:09:06Araqcryzed: will look into it later
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22:15:20cryzedI bootstrapped Nim-devel with the Nim release, now added Nim-devel\bin to my path, installed nimble with nim e install_nimble... and put the support DLLs into the bin directory
22:15:33cryzedbut when I try to start nimble I get the message: could not load: (ssleay64|libssl64).dll
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22:19:23cryzedAny advice on this?
22:21:12cryzedWell I give up for now then
22:21:13*cryzed sighs
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22:23:18Araqhave nim 64 bits=
22:23:20Araq?
22:23:43Araqthe dlls need to be next to nimble.exe
22:26:09cryzedAraq, yep and yep
22:26:41cryzedI used the nim 64 bit download and the gcc contained within to bootstrap the Nim-devel version
22:26:51cryzedby compiling koch and then using koch to compile nim
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22:27:14cryzedthen I ran nim e install, downloaded the DLLs and put them next to nimble
22:27:21cryzedwhen attempting to run nimble I get this error
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22:30:39cryzedAraq, https://gist.github.com/cryzed/9eeea80c412f74c185fa this is what I get when running nim -v
22:31:30Araqwhere nimble
22:31:48cryzedIt's windows, but nimble is located at: C:\Nim-devel\bin
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22:32:00cryzedhttp://i.imgur.com/EfxV996.png
22:32:28cryzedah yes, I copied the DLLs now from the original distribution over, but it also didn't work with the ones I downloaded manually
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