<<12-01-2017>>

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01:30:26nmooneyHi there!
01:30:38nmooneyI'm brand new to Nim -- using it for a networks course.
01:30:59nmooneyI have a type (a tuple) to represent a particular type of packet (comes with a header and a payload, pretty basic).
01:31:17nmooneyWhat's the most Nim-like way to convert that tuple to a string of bytes I can send over a socket?
01:33:41ftsfnmooney, cast it to a pointer?
01:34:32nmooneyGotcha -- will that give me the fields as a series of bytes, like casting a struct to a pointer in C?
01:34:38ftsfsend(mytuple.addr, size)
01:34:48nmooneyah ok
01:35:08nmooneySo you're suggesting not turning into a string at all, correct?
01:35:12ftsfcorrect
01:35:24ftsfit's already bytes in memory
01:35:28nmooneygreat
01:35:29ftsfjust send those
01:35:42nmooneycool, thanks very much
01:35:55ftsfnp, hope it works =)
01:37:53ftsfare you using the net module?
01:38:19nmooneyYeah, that's the goal.
01:38:31nmooneyI haven't actually played with Nim at all up until now so it's a little slow-going right now
01:38:46ftsfcool, it's really quick once you get going
01:38:51nmooneyFirst I have to understand what the assignment is asking and then do my best to translate to Nim
01:38:57nmooneyYeah, the syntax is handy so far, I'm excited to learn it
01:39:09nmooneymost of my quick prototyping code is written in Python so the syntax feels familiar
01:41:14ftsfhttps://gist.github.com/ftsf/09190431d86fee69815655d8aa4cdbd3 very basic example
01:42:28ftsfyou can also use `discard socket.send(data, 5)`
01:42:43nmooneygreat -- and that should work with tuples as well, assuming I cast the tuple to a pointer?
01:43:58ftsfi think you'll need to do data.addr if data is a tuple
01:44:11nmooneyalso, I need to pad my packets (with null bytes, I think) such that its size is a multiple of four. If I want to store that padding in the tuple, what's the best way to go about that?
01:44:24nmooneyalternatively I could just calculate the size mod 4 in my send method and then send the complement of the size
01:44:37ftsfyou can just add a padding element to the tuple
01:44:49nmooneyI was thinking of type seq[byte]?
01:46:18nmooneyin Python I would do something like '\x00' * paddingLength
01:46:26nmooneyor [0] * paddingLength
01:48:36ftsfwell you could allocate a block of memory that's at least mytuple.len and a multiple of 4
01:48:43ftsfand then copy your tuple into it
01:48:46ftsfthen send that block
01:51:18ftsfhttps://gist.github.com/ftsf/304fd7c2b7f13825dbead0fd7459ffc2 client and server sending / recving a tuple
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01:53:17ftsfif you run recv.nim and then run client.nim. client.nim will send the tuple and recv.nim will print it out
01:54:15nmooneythat's awesome, thanks so much for the gist
01:54:42nmooneydo you know if nim does any funny alignment stuff like C (well, GCC) does with structs sometimes?
01:54:58nmooneywe have to send packets in a pretty strict format
01:55:08nmooneybut I would guess it'll be laid out in memory exactly as needed
01:55:18ftsffrom the manual: "The implementation aligns the fields for best access performance. The alignment is compatible with the way the C compiler does it."
01:55:32ftsfI don't know much about the alignment stuff
01:56:59ftsfhttp://nim-lang.org/docs/manual.html#foreign-function-interface-packed-pragma
01:57:38nmooneyoh it looks like it actually just directly supports the `packed` pragma
01:57:41nmooneyso that's exactly what I need
01:57:57ftsfso by default stuff is not packed back to back, but if you want that use {.packed.}
01:58:09ftsfalthough it says it only applies to object types, not sure if it'll work with tuples
01:58:36ftsfbut a simple object should behave identically
01:58:45nmooneyyeah I was curious -- just tried it and the compiler didn't complain! so I'm assuming it works
01:59:23ftsfi wouldn't rely on it, be sure to check
01:59:56nmooneythe daemon on the other end will just terminate the connection if anything is even slightly off, so I'll be sure to get it right heh
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03:22:38kulelu88do you guys know the correct way to install nim? the instructions on the site and github are differnet
03:22:41kulelu88rent
03:23:14Xekulelu88: what OS?
03:23:20kulelu88Xe: Ubuntu
03:24:03Xekulelu88: what I do is extract the tarball to ~/.vardene/$VERSION, build it and then symlink that folder to ~/.vardene/active
03:24:19Xei have a command line tool that simplifies this, but it's nowhere near anything resembling ready for people to use
03:24:57kulelu88Xe: you could convert that CLI tool into a multi-Nim install-manager?
03:25:30Xekulelu88: yes, but i don't know if such a thing would be useful
03:25:44kulelu88for a rapidly changing language, I guess not much
03:25:45Xei'm also considering following the example of https://golang.org/x/build/version
03:26:29kulelu88Xe: do you follow these instructions here to install: https://github.com/nim-lang/nim . the download page: http://nim-lang.org/download.html specifies something slightly different
03:26:44Xekulelu88: extract tarball, run compile.sh, ???, profit
03:27:38*kulelu88 scratches head
03:29:03kulelu88off-topic... Xe are you still working on those difficult/challenging problems at your job?
03:29:14Xekulelu88: my current job is searching for a job
03:29:55kulelu88whoa, a lot has changed since we last spoke about a better HTTP lib then.
03:32:16kulelu88good luck with your job search Xe
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04:33:59def-pri-pubI've been doing a little job searching lately.
04:34:47def-pri-pubTwo companies had me do a HackerRank coding challenge. God I hate that site. It always comes down to a typing speed competition for me...
05:04:52def-pri-pubNight guys
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13:49:56FromGitter<Varriount> nmooney: just be sure to only transmit data between similar devices if using that method
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15:14:32FromGitter<martinium> @kulelu88 the github instructions are the best for installing
15:14:49FromGitter<martinium> After that all completes run ./koch nimble to install nimble
15:15:17FromGitter<martinium> The final step is adding symlinks to your usr/bin folder to have binaries available system-wide
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15:24:42euantordom96: Getting a problem with compiling an old Nimble package under nimble 0.8.2, included with the Nim Windows zip:
15:24:51euantorhttps://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/jKQRtpz5/
15:25:25euantorThe migrate.nimble file contains the following https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/0qeGMejW/
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15:27:55euantorInstalling packages such as `nimble install docopt` also fail with the same error
15:31:28euantorHowever, the current (unreleased) code (0.8.3) on GitHub works after I've cloned and built it manually. Could be confusing for new suers trying to install a fresh copy from the website
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15:34:50Araqeuantor: nimble 0.8.2 shouldn't show this behaviour, are you sure it's not some older nimble version?
15:34:59euantor100%
15:35:32euantorDeleted the old version of Nim and Nimble and everything off my machine (at work), downloaded the ZIP from the website, installed it as usual
15:35:59euantorRunning `nim -v` gives `Nim Compiler Version 0.16.0`, running `nimble -v` reports `0.8.2`
15:36:05Araqwhat does migrate.nimble contain?
15:36:11euantorAlso, the latest tagged release on GitHub for nimble is 0.8.2
15:36:19euantorSee above: - https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/0qeGMejW/
15:36:35euantorThis is the release list for Nimble: https://github.com/nim-lang/nimble/releases
15:36:41euantorLast release 4 days ago, 1.8.2
15:36:59euantorUpgrading to 0.8.3 has fixed the problem
15:38:33Araqhmm do you have ./nimble/pkgs/nimble* ?
15:40:13euantornope
15:40:40euantorhttps://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/q93fcGib/Capture.PNG
15:43:43Araqhmm do you have a photo of yourself wearing a zebra costume?
15:44:15euantorAlso getting an index out of bounds in db_mysql, to add to the fun ;)
15:44:21euantorAnd unfortunately not, sorry!
15:44:44euantorhttps://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/Fydo4JVb/
15:45:03Araqwas some old Garfield joke
15:45:46euantorSorry, it's been a long day. It went straight over my head I'm afraid
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15:46:22Araqindex out of bounds is a query that contains too many ?s
15:47:34euantorAh, the queries contain textual content that may contain a "?" character
15:48:07euantorThe tool generate SQL scripts to make changes to a database automatically
15:48:23euantorSo you can make changes to one DB, it creates a migration that can be applied on other databases
15:49:57euantorThe query being ran does in fact contain the "?" character, several times. There doesn't seem to be any way to escape the "?" character either, which is unfortunate
15:51:05Araqwhy would there? '?' is not part of the SQL syntax
15:51:43euantorBut it can exist in a string being inserted
15:52:06Araqyeah, that needs to be fixed asap
15:52:22Araqbut you shouldn't have to quote it
15:52:27euantorSo if I have a raw query containing "INSERT INTO text(data) VALUES ('what did you have for dinner?');", that's completely valid SQL but will break the db_mysql lib
15:53:05euantorRight now I'm going to get around it with a "rawExec" proc that won't do the query formatting
15:53:58Araqwell that should be:
15:54:29Araqdb.exec("INSERT INTO text(data) VALUE (?)", "what did you have for dinner?")
15:55:00Araqbut still, our db* modules should support your syntax too.
15:55:09euantorShould be, if you're not reading queries from files like in this strange case that I'm using the module in
15:55:22daekanowouldn’t you want to encourage parameterized queries?
15:55:45daekanoor is that too much opinion
16:00:04Araqdaekano: encourage yes, but not at the cost of a potential DoS
16:00:57euantorEncourage yes, but this tool is pretty niche
16:03:36daekanoah fair — jumped in late
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16:41:12smtSo I have a small problem, I've written a little program for me and a few friends that involves unzipping a file, the only library I could find was https://github.com/nim-lang/zip, everything works great until someone else uses it and they get an error that zlib1.dll couldnt be found - is there a way I can statically link that somehow into my nim code so I don't need to include the dll for other people?
16:44:04Araqsmt: there used to be such an option but I think we had to remove it because of Linux package management. just ship the DLL next to your .exe and the program will work for your friends too
16:45:02smtalright, thanks
16:45:04Araqif you really prefer a single file exe to distribute, try UPX
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16:51:57dom96euantor: Yeah, I should release a new Nimble version.
16:52:49dom96and yeah, this was fixed recentl
16:52:51dom96*recently
16:53:05dom96The problem is an outdated /tmp/nimblepkg
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19:52:02kulelu88if I follow this example: http://nim-lang.org/docs/tut1.html Will I have enough knowledge to be "dangerous" with non-OOP programming in Nim ?
19:53:28Araqyou won't have enough knowledge until you read some sections about templates and macros
19:55:07kulelu88Araq: so I cannot get by with procedural programming alone? ie. just functions
19:55:38euantorYes, you can
19:55:49euantorBut you won't unlock the full power of Nim
19:56:04dyce[m]i still havent used macros or templates yet
19:56:10dyce[m]hmm
19:56:25dyce[m]any nice examples of where it comes handy?
19:59:29Araqwhenever you copy&paste you should have used a template instead
19:59:30dyce[m]like the example http://nim-lang.org/docs/tut2.html#templates for template log, that could also be written as a function?
20:00:08Araqbut you don't get lazy evaluation then
20:00:26dyce[m]ah i see
20:00:43dyce[m]basically its more overhead
20:01:05dyce[m]and if scaled, would eat more memory i assume?
20:02:20kulelu88Araq: is there a paradigm the compiler follows? eg. OOP ?
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20:02:49Xe kulelu88 the paradigm in nim is to make software using it
20:03:12Xebreak out data that needs to be put together into an object
20:03:39Xewrite functions using that object where it makes sense
20:03:53Xeand in general, don't try to reinvent the wheel
20:04:10Araqthe only paradigm that works for compilers is FP. And then you remove lots of FP to get performance back.
20:04:27dom96Interesting reply: https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/5nd9rn/announcing_tokio_01/dcceufi/
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20:05:49kulelu88Araq: so you spend most of your time writing FP code for the compiler? (and then stripping it away to increase performance)
20:07:58Araqno, most of the time I live with the inefficiencies :-/
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20:11:21AraqI think you can say that the compiler's architecture is FP and a level below that mutable state abounds.
20:11:58dom96So it seems that it's a tradeoff between using more memory or double copying.
20:12:04dom96I wonder which is worse.
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20:13:49Araqdouble copying is irrelevant.
20:14:33dom96how so?
20:14:37kulelu88Araq: when you first started writing the compiler, you used another compiled language, right?
20:14:43Araqin this context. strong words, but hey, prove me wrong.
20:15:34dom96so my approach is worse than Rust's?
20:15:41Araqdom96: memcpy for large-ish buffers is ridiculously fast
20:16:07Araqand doesn't make the hardware sweat, the hw loves it.
20:16:10dom96That's a pity.
20:17:10Araqdom96: what I said doesn't apply to Nim's asyncdispatch.
20:17:26dom96Araq: Did you read the link I sent earlier?
20:17:38Araqyes
20:17:56dom96what are your thoughts?
20:18:16dom96the author of that reply says that our model suffers from increased memory usage
20:18:23dom96whereas their model suffers from double copying
20:18:41dom96what you said seems to imply that double copying is the lesser of two evils
20:26:09AraqI read no such thing
20:26:33Araq"our model suffers from increased memory usage"? where do you get this idea from?
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20:28:32Araqnever mind
20:28:39dom96"... The biggest being that you are required to have an allocated buffer for every in-flight operation. So, a server that would otherwise only require a few MB of RSS on linux now could require hundreds of MB of RSS."
20:29:01dom96This person is talking about our approach
20:29:09dom96because we use the IOCP model
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20:32:09Araqhow can you avoid this buffer?
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20:37:44Araqgood night
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20:50:06dom96Araq: you can't, unless you use the readiness model
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20:54:56cheatfatedom96, the main flaw of using select on windows - it doesn't support anything else except sockets, so you not able to use even pipes...
20:55:38dom96cheatfate: tokio uses the readiness model with IOCP
20:55:51cheatfatetokio uses mio, mio uses select
20:55:51dom96by calling read(0) essentially
20:56:11dom96well, that's not what that person said ^
20:56:36cheatfatelets go to tokio source and try to find getqueuedcompletionstatus
20:56:49cheatfateif you find it then i'm wrong
20:57:15cheatfatebut tokio sources don't have any kind of system specific code... all system specific code are inside of mio
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20:58:15cheatfatehmm looks like i'm wrong and found iocp
21:00:05cheatfatealso looks like they using same scheme like we are (but i'm not very good in rust)
21:00:12cheatfatehttps://github.com/carllerche/mio/blob/0e21ae3e4090a32337eae22d52fa11b71b1f0b47/src/sys/windows/selector.rs
21:00:43cheatfateand what does it mean `call read(0) essentially`
21:03:54dom96To emulate the readiness model with IOCP they read 0 bytes to determine if any of the sockets are available for reading
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22:11:13def-pri-pubWhen compiling with `-d:release` will it also turn off stack tracing and line tracing?
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22:27:58dom96def-pri-pub: yes
22:28:53def-pri-pubmmkay. I'm trying to do some optimizations to my Ray Tracer. Is there an article out there on how to manipulate the GC?
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22:31:39def-pri-pubI was able to get the code to nearly match the C++ times, but I want to see if I could push it further.
22:33:16dom96http://nim-lang.org/docs/gc.html
22:33:20dom96should help
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22:59:37def-pri-pubWhen messing with the GC it doesn't seem like I've been able to squeeze out any more seconds...
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23:03:45FromGitter<martinium> Prob need to embed asm
23:03:47FromGitter<martinium> For that
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23:08:13def-pri-pubDon't mind me, just taking my assembly instructsion for a walk: -( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)╯╲___mov_add_imul_lea
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