<< 24-10-2016 >>
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02:15:35FromGitter<GraydenH> hi
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07:11:18FromGitter<gogolxdong> how to compile with SharedTable, I got error `stdlib_locks.c:(.text+0x1f): undefined reference to `pthread_mutex_trylock'`
07:16:44ArrrrI don't know, but maybe you need `--threads:on`
07:16:48Arrrrhttp://nim-lang.org/docs/nimc.html
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07:55:59FromGitter<gogolxdong> :)
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08:12:26FromGitter<dom96> @Araq can you see about answering some questions in here? https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/58yf7s/nim_0152_released/
08:12:38FromGitter<dom96> Strangely more popular than the 0.15.0 post
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08:43:44ArrrrMaybe people have in memory that gamma article
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10:32:28arnetheduck_Araq, what do you think of adding a tyAlias, similar to tyDistinct? that would allow walking down to the root type, avoiding much of the structural comparisons..
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10:42:51Araqarnetheduck_: sounds like a large patch to the compiler. everywhere you deal with types, tyAlias needs to be considered
10:43:15Araqyou can make it part of the skipTypes() mechanism
10:43:34Araqbut at that point you might as well redesign how types are represented.
10:43:49*Araq had some ideas about this...
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10:47:22arnetheduck_yeah, skiptypes should help, figured that most places that skip tydistinct should also skip tyalias..
10:47:38arnetheduck_what do you want to do to types?
10:49:16arnetheduck_btw, it says tyIter is unused - is that really so? why is it kept around then?
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10:51:25Araqty* enum order is important and must not change
10:51:38Araqthis implies removing ty* values is troublesome
10:51:57arnetheduck_order is one thing, ordinals another.. both significant?
10:52:08Araqyep
10:52:13arnetheduck_and why? if rtti & ty* is changed at the same time..?
10:52:39Araqit's also mapped to Nim's macros.nim
10:53:02Araq"changing things at the same time" tends to not solve bootstrapping problems
10:53:35FromGitter<coffeepots> hey guys, is it possible to update object field values using system.fieldpairs?
10:53:51Araqyes.
10:54:45FromGitter<coffeepots> excellent!
10:54:50FromGitter<coffeepots> cheers :)
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10:55:48arnetheduck_ok, not sure what you mean but I'll take your word for it.. recycling then? ie tyIter -> tyAlias?
10:56:32arnetheduck_the structural equivalence thing, is that a feature or a hack?
10:56:46arnetheduck_ie that types are compared based on their fields, sort of, sometimes?
10:56:55Araqit's an essential feature for generic objects
10:57:04Araqnot sure what the non-generic case does :P
10:57:16Araqfrom your description it sounds wrong.
10:58:39Araqrecycling does work. but I'm not sure what tyAlias buys us
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11:08:12Araqaha! it doesn't matter if I use 'koch csource' or 'koch csources'. Nice job, former Araq.
11:08:35Araqthat's why I can never remember and yet always get it right.
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11:33:20arnetheduck_for one, you can avoid copying all those fields while at the same time you retain more info about the source which can be useful in a number of cases (ide support, type based optimization etc)
11:34:09arnetheduck_I'm basing my description on a 5minute reading what I think is the place where overloads get chosen - don't read too much into it ;)
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12:01:42arnetheduck_btw, care to merge https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/pull/4888?
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12:39:06Araqarnetheduck_: can't we introduce .detect instead?
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12:40:32arnetheduck_and you'd .detect types and func prototypes as well?
12:40:50arnetheduck_and you'd have to handle the odd "not avail on this platform" case as well..
12:43:52arnetheduck_without detecting types, .detect will remain a halfbaked cripple
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12:47:41Araqarnetheduck_: it's easy enough to detect the sizes of types
12:47:50Araqnot their implementations though
12:48:21arnetheduck_oh, and more annoyingly, ppl will have to have headers installed just to compile simple stuff
12:49:18arnetheduck_it's also mostly useful for the c library - outside of that, it's rare to have so much platform dependent stuff in the public api
12:50:26arnetheduck_ie with nlvm and a abi-correct std lib, nim could be installed standalone, completely without a c toolchain
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12:52:12Araqso you argue I shouldn't spend time on .detect. Fine.
12:52:17Araq;-)
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12:52:37arnetheduck_you can spend time on it, but it doesn't sound like a winner ;)
12:53:06arnetheduck_instead, you could figure out a way to avoid rtti to be generated for types like those thread things ;)
12:53:24Araqissue number?
12:54:09arnetheduck_https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/pull/4755
12:55:43arnetheduck_it chokes unnecessarily because for the lock types, it ends up generating rtti which shouldn't be needed for c types
12:55:46Araqah yes. I never understood your remarks.
12:57:39arnetheduck_when the lock type is fully fleshed out in nim, with all fields, nim starts generating rtti for its fields, including offsetof. because the type is .nodecl/.header, it doesn't generate a unique nim struct for it however, instead in the generated c code it uses the type from the header
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12:58:28arnetheduck_so if there are any differences in field names, rtti breaks compile because there's an offsetof(type, fieldname) there that uses the field name from nim
12:58:58arnetheduck_this sucks, because the field names in c are mangled and change over time, but their content does not, really (it
12:59:05arnetheduck_'s part of the kernel abi
12:59:27Araqwhy not have NLM specific version of this file?
12:59:38Araq*NLVM
13:00:45arnetheduck_can, but this can benefit nim too, if it's smart about it.. ie better debug info, sizeof available at compile time, etc etc
13:02:10arnetheduck_the problem is generic too - it's applicable to all of the std lib (files, locks, sockets, etc etc)..
13:03:45arnetheduck_struct stat is similar.. the c standard talks about which fields must be present, but not in which order and if they're fields at all (some are implemented as macros!)..
13:04:21arnetheduck_errno is the ultimate example ;) a.. variable? macro? function? thread_local? anything goes..
13:05:16Araqwe all know the standards are defective as a "portable asm" specification
13:09:11arnetheduck_well, could skip the c library and interface directly with the kernels ;)
13:10:00Araqyummy. like FPC does.
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13:11:18cheatfate_Araq, FPC (free pascal) and all stdlib bases on syscalls?
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13:26:09arnetheduck_could ship with musl ;)
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13:28:42arnetheduck_anyway, that branch should work as is for glibc but will break on musl-based systems.. should perhaps guard that too with a conditional
13:29:24cheatfatearnetheduck_, you can always start your own project of nim's stdlib
13:33:36arnetheduck_cheatfate, I'd rather avoid that if possible, such a mess.. besides, once there's a common generic way to do things that both projects can use, adding to it becomes much more easy and both benefit.. the point is to be as compatible as possible, after all
13:35:24Araqcheatfate: that is correct or at least used to be.
13:37:06cheatfatearnetheduck_, but most of the library is not os specific
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13:37:33arnetheduck_nlvm after all is just another codegen.. the stdlib however is quite broken in this regard - it relies on.. quirks.. of the c code generation to work, plastering over differences in what nim and c think about about types
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13:37:41cheatfateand i think it will be good to separate stdlib :)
13:38:43arnetheduck_separate stdlib is one thing, multiple stdlibs quite another ;)
13:41:28arnetheduck_and I think it's a bad idea anyway.. compiler & std lib tend to walk in lock step.. versioning them separately sounds like a world of pain
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13:42:27Araqmost splits have resulted in a worse user experience, nim vs nimsuggest, nim vs c2nim, nim vs nimble
13:45:57arnetheduck_yeah, bring them all back!
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13:49:37PMunchMaybe rename nim to nimcompiler and let nim be the collection of compiler, stdlib, nimble, c2nim, and nimsuggest?
13:50:22PMunchThat way when a user install Nim they get all the stuff but whatever benefit was suggested here from splitting (sorry, just entered the room) would still be possible.
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13:51:15cheatfateI prefer pluggable stdlib rather then splitting it
14:02:13AraqPMunch: splitting means separate issue trackers. :-)
14:06:52PMunchHmm, I guess
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14:58:28Araqarnetheduck_: tyBigNum, tyConst, tyMutable are also all unused ;-)
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15:34:19arnetheduck_Araq, https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/pull/4945 - now you get rid of tyForward ;)
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17:49:32avphi, i'm trying to read 3 int64s from a single line of stdin, and i can't find a decent code example on how to do this....do i just have to use readLine() and somehow split the string after, or is there something like scanf("%d %d %d", ...) that i can use?
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17:54:21Araqavp: stdlib module 'strscans'
17:54:56avpAraq: excellent, thanks! (first day using nim)
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17:57:35Trixar_zaI updated by deleting all the files except my code and the dist folder from the previous install (for mingw), then copied the contents of the zip file over into the directory and using finish.exe - was that the right way to do it? I want to avoid issues
18:00:47AraqTrixar_za: sounds ok.
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18:01:19Trixar_zaAraq: Ok, thanks
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19:02:35cheatfate`accept day` :)
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19:15:48FromGitter<GraydenH> I am getting a gcc compiler error saying it can't find Gl/gl3.h
19:16:05FromGitter<GraydenH> does that mean it can't find the opengl install?
19:19:12dom96GraydenH: sounds like it, yes.
19:19:46FromGitter<GraydenH> I just installed openSuse on a vm, guess I should go grab opengl
19:22:23AraqNim's opengl module doesn't require C headers afaik
19:23:06FromGitter<GraydenH> I was trying to use glfw
19:23:32FromGitter<GraydenH> as I couldn't find material on opengl without glfw
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19:38:22dom96GraydenH: Wish I could help more, somebody else might be able to help later on. If you don't get an answer feel free to ask on the forum as well.
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20:15:38Araqcouven92: I simplified your code, have a look
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20:19:29couven92Araq, hmm... what exactly did you change I see you made "cl.exe" out of "cl".addFileExt(ExeExt) (and the same with link)
20:20:17couven92Ah... I see the output parsing from the set command...
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20:24:08Araqyour code is pretty much unreadable :P 'vcc' everywhere
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20:24:38couven92yeah, I know...
20:25:09Araqspeaking of which ... how do we use these new tools?
20:25:39Araqcompile the 2 programs, put them in nim\bin and edit nim.cfg?
20:25:46couven92yup
20:26:16Araqis it safe to do this unconditionally?
20:27:04couven92I actually thought: We should change the when(i386) statements in the code and rather use a different define instead, that makes more sense...
20:27:13couven92What do you mean with unconditionally?
20:28:22couven92I actually found out: Nim invokes cl.exe anyways, so compiling the linkerexe was actually not necessary... The CL command line works like the GCC commandline where linking is concerned
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20:32:16couven92Araq, what I did was compile the vccexe tool twice, (once with -d:i386 and once with -d:amd64) to produce a vccexe-x86 and a vccexe-x64, then I placed both in the nim bin folder and entered the nim.cfg accordingly
20:34:31Araqhmm that's unnecessary
20:35:16Araqvccexe should do this at runtime
20:35:17couven92Araq, ah, because we can just add an argument to the vcc options to get the right platform, right?
20:35:27Araqright
20:35:46couven92Hmm... Okay... I will get onto that...
20:36:06Araqmore important is the 'koch' and config integration
20:38:01couven92Yeah... As you probaly noticed with my code, I am pretty much a Nim NOOB, sooo I'm not very deep into how koch actually does stuff and how and where exactly we would do that...
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20:41:33AraqI can add the 3 lines to koch
20:42:40couven92Araq, ooh... I thought it would be more difficult than that! :P Okay, I am ready to learn
20:44:34FromGitter<GraydenH> it seems nimx uses opengl to do everything I was looking for
20:45:05FromGitter<GraydenH> Although there seems to be 0 documentation
20:45:37FromGitter<GraydenH> other than reading the source
20:45:51FromGitter<GraydenH> but that doesn't tell me how to do more than the basics
20:47:02AraqgraydenH: PRs welcome :-)
20:50:00couven92Araq, I will switch out the when clauses in the code, also clean up some stuff... (less vcc and maybe some comments :P )
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20:52:46Araqcouven92: 'when defined(release)' should be 'if not verbose'
20:53:45couven92Yeah, and when(i386) shoudl actually be: when(useX86CompilerTools) or sth. like that...
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20:55:09FromGitter<GraydenH> oh, you are working your own UI lib
20:55:19FromGitter<GraydenH> on*
20:55:38Araqno, I wrapped libui
20:56:13Araqupdated the wrapper, before I noticed it doesn't work for my use cases -.-
20:56:20FromGitter<GraydenH> ah, the repo description didn't make it sound that way
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21:11:02dom96Araq: https://github.com/dom96/NimBorg/blob/master/nimborg/py/high_level.nim#L105 this crashes the compiler.
21:11:19dom96"internal error: metatype not eliminated"
21:11:21dom96known bug?
21:12:56dom96oh, cool https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/issues/3529
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21:24:57couven92Araq, the idea is that Koch should generate a vccenv.nim file that contains the VCC environment table and that this file then gets compiled into the nim binary?
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22:01:43Araqcouven92: just a sec, you can look at my patch soon
22:03:37Araqcouven92: there you go.
22:04:49couven92ah, cool... :)
22:05:22FromGitter<GraydenH> Are the pragmas meant to become more normal syntax at some point
22:06:07couven92I am in troducing /vcPlatform arguments that get parsed in the vccexe tool and the get stripped before the call to cl.exe
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22:16:16AraqGraydenH: not really. :-) you'll get used to them.
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22:48:03Araqgood night
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23:15:58couven92erm... I want to check a part of a TaintedString against another string. substr or array slice?
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23:53:35FromGitter<GraydenH> I used `nimble install nimx`, did `nimble new nimxtest`, then added `requires "nimx"` to the nimble file then make a 1 line file `test.nim` that says `import nimx`. When I run `nimble c test.nim` and it gets past the nimble step where it says `Looking for nimx (any version). Dependency already satisfied.` and goes to the nim compiler which then says `cannot open nimx`
23:54:09FromGitter<GraydenH> what am I doing wrong
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23:56:56FromGitter<GraydenH> ah, I have to import a sub component of nimx like nimx.window
23:57:22FromGitter<GraydenH> Now I'm getting message that says nimx can't open opengl...
23:57:32FromGitter<GraydenH> see this is my problem
23:57:46FromGitter<GraydenH> opengl does not need to want to work with nim for me
23:57:53FromGitter<GraydenH> seem*
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23:58:39FromGitter<GraydenH> `nimble install opengl` its already there
23:59:06FromGitter<GraydenH> ```PS C:\Users\Grayden\Documents\work\nim\nimxtest> nimble c test.nim ⏎ Looking for nimx (any version)... ⏎ Dependency already satisfied. ⏎ Compiling test.nim (nimxtest) using c backend... ⏎ Hint: used config file 'C:\Nim\config\nim.cfg' [Conf] ... [https://gitter.im/nim-lang/Nim?at=580ea04aab78365b20574f7d]
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