<< 15-11-2026 >>
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00:03:46FromDiscord<davicompai> how should one take "tiny libraries should be avoided when possible" in the packages readme? i have made a really small library for detecting/ordering etc user accepted languages in http requests, since i didn't find a library that did this. i reccon i could just copy the code whenever i use it, but at the same time it is big enough that i would prefer to not do so
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00:16:00FromDiscord<janakali> In reply to @autisticrenegade "and i feel like": there's a good portion of people who give in to AI, not because of money
00:16:21FromDiscord<janakali> some of them just hate programming, lol
00:22:17FromDiscord<janakali> there is also this eternal split of people into 2 groups: idealists and materialists. Materialists are more likely to use AI for everything, even though it sucks, because it gives you something right here, right now, and is sometimes useful.
00:25:00FromDiscord<janakali> And idealists are less likely to use AI because it limits the scope of things you can do, and your ability to make them the best version of that thing.
00:41:20FromDiscord<janakali> oh, and generally makes you dumber and less skillful
00:45:27FromDiscord<davicompai> In reply to @janakali "there is also this": seeing someone use materialist/idealist outside of marx/hegel is so weird lol
00:45:34FromDiscord<davicompai> (edit) "In reply to @janakali "there is also this": seeing someone use materialist/idealist ... outside" added "in the same sentence"
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02:09:05FromDiscord<_timurski> sent a long message, see https://paste.rs/OAGg1
02:10:01FromDiscord<_timurski> me and this 2nd year at my uni are so unbelievably excited by what CS and math will grow into from now on. you can be excited too.
02:17:33FromDiscord<davicompai> In reply to @_timurski "if you stay a": my issue is that most studdies show that using ai as a helper when studying has a negative or no effect at all
02:17:47FromDiscord<davicompai> it only gives you the idea that you understand and know something rather than you actually learning it
02:17:56iwuvmikacan someone make nimlings for the vine? please and ty
02:18:20FromDiscord<davicompai> when i say this i am not saying that i think it is wrong or something, i am just arguing that not using it much or at all when studying is not illogical
02:20:38FromDiscord<autisticrenegade> In reply to @iwuvmika "@autisticrenegade kys": kay
02:21:25FromDiscord<autisticrenegade> In reply to @janakali "some of them just": okay well i was drawing a distinction between $ and non $ people to say i am for the latter group
02:21:42FromDiscord<autisticrenegade> and i think i'd be against people who hate programming lol
02:22:05FromDiscord<autisticrenegade> In reply to @raynei486 "I'm in the Boston": MIT gamers
02:22:27FromDiscord<raynei486> In reply to @autisticrenegade "MIT gamers": Oh I wish I was in mit lol
02:22:40FromDiscord<autisticrenegade> In reply to @tempestro "how do you handle": learn list processing?
02:22:43FromDiscord<raynei486> They were my first choice
02:22:49FromDiscord<raynei486> (edit) "They were" => "It was"
02:23:00FromDiscord<autisticrenegade> okay well it's in your area so you count still
02:23:05FromDiscord<autisticrenegade> as an mit gamer
02:23:10FromDiscord<autisticrenegade> spiritually if not literally
02:23:42FromDiscord<autisticrenegade> In reply to @janakali "oh, and generally makes": also i agree with this and is a big part of why i avoid using it
02:24:12FromDiscord<autisticrenegade> if i ever would use ai, i would use it solely to make a reference of what i want, and then copy from that reference in my own interpretation
02:24:20FromDiscord<autisticrenegade> i would never use ai-generated code directly
02:24:27FromDiscord<autisticrenegade> unless it was something i didn't care about maybe
02:24:45FromDiscord<autisticrenegade> like how linus (torvalds) made a sound thing in python at christmas
02:24:53FromDiscord<autisticrenegade> ngl whatever linus's take on ai is my take
02:25:24FromDiscord<autisticrenegade> like that you shouldn't outright reject it when there is obviously a place for it (like code review stuff that's easily automatable)
02:26:05FromDiscord<autisticrenegade> but it's like... i literally enjoy coding, so why would I want something else to do it for me?
02:26:14FromDiscord<autisticrenegade> i guess if i hated programming then using ai would make sense
02:26:45FromDiscord<autisticrenegade> and also there are places where using ai probably makes learning to program quicker, so i will admit that by not using it i am likely missing out in some domains
02:26:58FromDiscord<autisticrenegade> but i see it as worthwhile to lose some of the pros for avoiding all the cons of using ai
02:27:23FromDiscord<autisticrenegade> and also ai code completions, I just use regular LSPs (many of which i think are made with ai), and that is more than enough for me
02:27:41FromDiscord<janakali> even with reviews I feel like it's important to do them yourself, otherwise you will over rely on something that is unreliable by it's nature
02:27:47FromDiscord<autisticrenegade> coq.nvim + ale.nvim + nvim-lspconfig is adequate
02:28:01FromDiscord<autisticrenegade> i have like 450+ nvim plugins, that is my ai
02:28:12FromDiscord<janakali> it's just too tempting to press a button that solves all the problems, that people won't stop pressing it
02:28:13FromDiscord<autisticrenegade> also jan, yeah i agree with that
02:28:18FromDiscord<raynei486> In reply to @autisticrenegade "i have like 450+": wow that is impressive to say the least...
02:28:27FromDiscord<autisticrenegade> i just know there is something with testing that the kernel found out how to automate with AI
02:28:29FromDiscord<autisticrenegade> but it was logical
02:28:34FromDiscord<autisticrenegade> i don't remember the specifics
02:28:46FromDiscord<raynei486> Even in my wildest days of playing with emacs and vim I've probably never went above 50 plugins
02:28:58FromDiscord<autisticrenegade> wow crazy
02:30:29FromDiscord<raynei486> In reply to @janakali "it's just too tempting": Sometimes it's understandable
02:30:42FromDiscord<raynei486> Using LLMs has similarities to gambling
02:30:59FromDiscord<raynei486> Keep going till you get what you want
02:33:51FromDiscord<autisticrenegade> sent a long message, see https://paste.rs/M4CEw
02:34:41FromDiscord<autisticrenegade> oh yeah and i forgot to mention blink.cmp
02:35:07FromDiscord<autisticrenegade> match any ai completion thing against blink and i bet blink will outperform it 99% of the time lol
02:35:26FromDiscord<autisticrenegade> there are a lot of neovim ai plugins as well
02:35:38FromDiscord<autisticrenegade> i do want to peep them, out someday, but I just don't consider myself ready
02:35:59FromDiscord<autisticrenegade> I don't consider myself to be an expert coder enough to feel morally ok with using it
02:36:18FromDiscord<autisticrenegade> need to actually learn nim first...
02:36:26FromDiscord<autisticrenegade> i want to buy the book mastering nim
02:37:10FromDiscord<raynei486> In reply to @autisticrenegade "I don't consider myself": I mean no need to punish yourself over using AI lol
02:37:24FromDiscord<autisticrenegade> oh yeah and treesitter
02:37:31FromDiscord<autisticrenegade> tree sitter vs ai code completion
02:37:35FromDiscord<raynei486> Especially in the context of customizable text editors like emacs in vim, I think AI is a godsend
02:37:39FromDiscord<autisticrenegade> not a chance
02:37:49FromDiscord<raynei486> These editors have never been more accessible
02:37:57FromDiscord<autisticrenegade> ok if you know a good ai plugin for vim pls send
02:38:01FromDiscord<autisticrenegade> i am open to anything
02:38:12FromDiscord<autisticrenegade> i may be prejudiced, but I'm not closed-minded
02:38:23FromDiscord<autisticrenegade> i'm always down with good software
02:38:53FromDiscord<autisticrenegade> in fact, there is a repo on codeberg called like ai-slop-masterlist or something, and they had neovim on there
02:39:04FromDiscord<autisticrenegade> for using ai for testing i think
02:39:30FromDiscord<autisticrenegade> there are lots of projects i use which use ai themselves, so compared to some anti-ai people, i am a traitor
02:39:31FromDiscord<raynei486> In reply to @autisticrenegade "ok if you know": Unfortunately I use emacs and I personally just use opencode
02:39:35FromDiscord<autisticrenegade> at least they would see me as one
02:39:38FromDiscord<raynei486> Just using whatever works easily
02:39:42FromDiscord<autisticrenegade> okay
02:40:16FromDiscord<autisticrenegade> it is basically impossible at this point to avoid using software that uses ai in its development
02:40:20FromDiscord<autisticrenegade> though some people still try
02:40:33FromDiscord<autisticrenegade> it's like trying to avoid proprietary blobs in kernel firmware
02:40:39FromDiscord<autisticrenegade> ask richard stallman about that one
02:40:51FromDiscord<raynei486> We'll see how it turns out in the long run
02:41:17FromDiscord<autisticrenegade> the richard stallman thing is really funny you should look it up if you are unaware of what i'm referencing
02:41:35FromDiscord<autisticrenegade> also nice pfp
02:42:55FromDiscord<autisticrenegade> team umi zumi
02:43:30FromDiscord<raynei486> In reply to @autisticrenegade "team umi zumi": I might unfortunately not know what you're talking about
02:43:43FromDiscord<raynei486> I just uses to like fischl from genshin impact years ago and never changed my profile pic
02:43:44FromDiscord<autisticrenegade> you don't know umi zumi???
02:43:49FromDiscord<raynei486> (edit) "uses" => "used"
02:43:53FromDiscord<autisticrenegade> terminal depression
02:44:05FromDiscord<autisticrenegade> that's what i'd have if i were you
02:44:11FromDiscord<zumi.dxy> In reply to @autisticrenegade "there are lots of": think the worst part about this is being dismissive↵like, "just fix the bug, it's only 10 lines" or "just make it hand drawn"
02:44:23FromDiscord<zumi.dxy> all because "you knew how to do that before ai"
02:44:57FromDiscord<autisticrenegade> i'm not sure i understand what you mean exactly
02:45:09FromDiscord<autisticrenegade> what specifically is being dismissive?
02:45:32FromDiscord<autisticrenegade> you mean anti-ai people being dismissive of anything that even touches ai?
02:45:54FromDiscord<autisticrenegade> In reply to @raynei486 "I just used to": i like fischi ;3
02:46:27FromDiscord<zumi.dxy> In reply to @autisticrenegade "you mean anti-ai people": i'm not quite sure how to articulate it but it's like↵for that particular example it can take days or weeks to diagnose and come up with those 10 lines
02:46:51FromDiscord<zumi.dxy> it can be painful
02:46:53FromDiscord<autisticrenegade> to come up with lines that ai comes up with?
02:47:16FromDiscord<zumi.dxy> yeah
02:47:23FromDiscord<autisticrenegade> yes i think you are correct
02:47:39FromDiscord<autisticrenegade> especially in programming there can be bugs which are totally unobvious
02:47:44FromDiscord<autisticrenegade> like the solution is hidden in plain sight
02:47:46FromDiscord<zumi.dxy> I find that a lot of the solutions given contain the word "just"
02:47:48FromDiscord<autisticrenegade> but you still miss it somehow
02:47:53FromDiscord<zumi.dxy> that's what I find dismissive
02:47:55FromDiscord<autisticrenegade> and when you see the solution it's like ohhhhhh
02:47:57FromDiscord<autisticrenegade> facepalm
02:48:13FromDiscord<autisticrenegade> also can you give an example of the use of the word "just"
02:48:15FromDiscord<autisticrenegade> ?
02:48:25FromDiscord<zumi.dxy> In reply to @autisticrenegade "and when you see": I've had that happen for a fix that turned out to be a SINGLE line of code
02:48:33FromDiscord<autisticrenegade> yeah
02:48:40FromDiscord<zumi.dxy> In reply to @zumi.dxy "think the worst part": yeah these are the examples
02:48:41FromDiscord<autisticrenegade> so in those cases the use of ai is completely justified i feel
02:49:03FromDiscord<autisticrenegade> it's like when you are doing a puzzle and won't let yourself see the answer even if u are stuck on it for 3 days
02:49:06FromDiscord<autisticrenegade> i guess is a good analogy
02:49:11FromDiscord<autisticrenegade> to what you mean
02:49:20FromDiscord<autisticrenegade> In reply to @zumi.dxy "yeah these are the": oh ok im dumb lol
02:49:22FromDiscord<zumi.dxy> now I understand crowdsourcing your problems but who's gonna wanna do that
02:49:25FromDiscord<autisticrenegade> see that's exactly what i mean lmao
02:49:30FromDiscord<janakali> maybe painful is just how life is
02:49:31FromDiscord<autisticrenegade> hidden in plain sight
02:49:44FromDiscord<zumi.dxy> In reply to @zumi.dxy "now I understand crowdsourcing": well, if you know how stack overflow is
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02:50:12FromDiscord<zumi.dxy> In reply to @janakali "maybe painful is just": some people think the pain is the point
02:50:20FromDiscord<autisticrenegade> wdym by "just make it hand drawn"
02:50:27FromDiscord<zumi.dxy> but pain for what
02:50:31FromDiscord<autisticrenegade> is that in reference to ai-gener8ed art?
02:50:44FromDiscord<zumi.dxy> In reply to @autisticrenegade "wdym by "just make": admittedly that example I saw isn't even for AI but someone making a shader that looks like cel art
02:50:55FromDiscord<zumi.dxy> i think it's cool
02:51:07FromDiscord<zumi.dxy> but that take flew by and I'm like
02:51:07FromDiscord<autisticrenegade> is writing 100% human written code a painful existence?
02:51:09FromDiscord<zumi.dxy> huh??
02:51:19FromDiscord<autisticrenegade> oh
02:51:25FromDiscord<zumi.dxy> In reply to @autisticrenegade "is writing 100% human": not really?
02:51:49FromDiscord<zumi.dxy> it's more like people glorify pain, and even then why only now
02:51:49FromDiscord<autisticrenegade> yeah also i like a lot of ai gner8ed art (not going to refer to what kind of art for... reasons), though i do find it sad for real artists
02:51:54FromDiscord<autisticrenegade> who have to compete with that
02:52:01FromDiscord<autisticrenegade> but i am part of the problem
02:52:04FromDiscord<autisticrenegade> so
02:52:05FromDiscord<autisticrenegade> idk
02:52:14FromDiscord<autisticrenegade> it's unfortunate but that's basically just how automation goes
02:52:26FromDiscord<autisticrenegade> some people get fucked over, but nobody is going to reject it in the long run
02:52:55FromDiscord<janakali> In reply to @autisticrenegade "is writing 100% human": it just takes a lot experience, and you only get experience by struggling a lot
02:52:57FromDiscord<janakali> and failing
02:53:18FromDiscord<autisticrenegade> ok yeah but if you like coding then it's not painful to be fixing bugs
02:53:23FromDiscord<autisticrenegade> like u are failing plenty
02:53:28FromDiscord<autisticrenegade> but it's the enjoyable kind
02:54:08FromDiscord<autisticrenegade> i think that is how you know you should pursue some field is if when you are failing miserably at something, it doesn't make you want to quit
02:54:12FromDiscord<autisticrenegade> or feel frustrated
02:54:24FromDiscord<autisticrenegade> like it can be frustrating but not in an unmotivating way i suppose
02:54:32FromDiscord<autisticrenegade> i feel similar about playing chess
02:54:47FromDiscord<autisticrenegade> because when i was younger and i'd play chess i would get so mad when i lost
02:54:51FromDiscord<autisticrenegade> that it made me want to give up
02:54:53FromDiscord<autisticrenegade> and i did basically
02:55:00FromDiscord<autisticrenegade> because i was so infuriated with losing
02:55:09FromDiscord<autisticrenegade> but when i matured and realized losing is how you learn
02:55:11FromDiscord<autisticrenegade> and it's good
02:55:14FromDiscord<autisticrenegade> and unavoidable
02:55:25FromDiscord<autisticrenegade> when i accepted that, then i began to be able to have fun playing chess
02:55:31FromDiscord<autisticrenegade> and actually become semi-competent
02:55:47FromDiscord<autisticrenegade> honestly, that is true of any field where it takes work to become an expert
02:55:55FromDiscord<autisticrenegade> failure is basically always part of the equation
02:56:15FromDiscord<autisticrenegade> so learning to deal with it is a big aspect of gaining proficiency at pretty much anything
02:56:22FromDiscord<autisticrenegade> if it doesn't take 2 seconds to learn
02:58:20FromDiscord<zumi.dxy> In reply to @janakali "it just takes a": very much true↵AI-as-stack-overflow is where I've landed for now when I want to build things
02:58:43FromDiscord<zumi.dxy> (edit) "In reply to @janakali "it just takes a": very much true↵AI-as-stack-overflow is where I've landed for now when I want to build things ... " added "and care about it"
03:06:19iwuvmikasmoke weed erryday
03:07:04FromDiscord<janakali> Another thought I had for a while: many people treat AI as super-intelligence, where it's just clever approximation of all written knowledge.
03:07:09FromDiscord<janakali> That actually explains why it is useful for looking stuff up.
03:07:22FromDiscord<janakali> But if you try to ask it for opinions or ideas - you get amalgamation of all of them, which is just a grey boring mass.
03:07:26FromDiscord<janakali> Same for AI art and code to some extent.
03:08:40FromDiscord<zumi.dxy> "can't prompt what you can't imagine"
03:11:43iwuvmikado you guys ever use haskell
03:11:46FromDiscord<_timurski> In reply to @davicompai "my issue is that": im talking about using it for research
03:12:10FromDiscord<_timurski> ai for studying existing content is usually not beneficial yes
03:12:40FromDiscord<_timurski> but it is already known that it can create novel interesting solutions (math) and studying that is useful and insightful
03:13:50FromDiscord<_timurski> In reply to @janakali "Another thought I had": it already is shown to be able to create new knowledge in math, it's also useful to view it as a good heuristic large scale search
03:13:58FromDiscord<_timurski> (edit) "In reply to @janakali "Another thought I had": it already is shown to be able to create new knowledge in ... math," added "domains like"
03:14:44FromDiscord<_timurski> it's important to not confuse the actual capabilities of AI with the way that it is currently being used by most
03:15:57FromDiscord<_timurski> the same tool that I use to do plasma dynamics research is used by script kiddies to do slop Rust rewrites
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03:19:49FromDiscord<janakali> In reply to @_timurski "it already is shown": do you have any sources to read? In AI + Math, I've only heard of OpenAI abusing Lean proofs to create counter-examples and genius matematicians using AI to speedup boring parts they can easily check.
03:22:19FromDiscord<aaronspeedy> In reply to @mratsim "but having all children": What do you mean by this?
03:23:19FromDiscord<aaronspeedy> By the way, with the statically-typed paradigm for representing the AST, we can have things like AnyAstNode, which is a union of any possible AST node
03:26:57FromDiscord<aaronspeedy> In reply to @autisticrenegade "sometimes i feel like": Everybody will be obsolete in five years just have fun and learn survival skills
03:27:28FromDiscord<aaronspeedy> Get what you can out of the internet and organized society while you can
03:28:28FromDiscord<aaronspeedy> In reply to @janakali "do you have any": Not just counter examples. Tons of things have been proven positive
03:28:37FromDiscord<aaronspeedy> (edit) "positive" => "true"
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03:32:49iwuvmikado you guys ever write in VBScript?
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05:27:39FromDiscord<_timurski> sent a long message, see https://paste.rs/yPVeV
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06:14:48FromDiscord<just_a_random_idiot> Give a monkey a typewriter and infinite VC dollar compute, and it will give you a bruteforced solution to a math problem↵↵AI generates things that are plausible. And as that one law from that one guy I forgot the name of says: it is easier to generate bullshit than to review it
06:15:57FromDiscord<just_a_random_idiot> Be a conman, slap AI infront of your company's name, and you'll get VC funding left and right, I suppose
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14:55:35FromDiscord<mratsim> In reply to @aaronspeedy "What do you mean": code to process AST is generic instead of being a case around the children structure
14:56:56FromDiscord<mratsim> In reply to @aaronspeedy "By the way, with": Generics don't work well in macros / the VM. And case objects are the standard way to represent an AST node except for languages that don't have them and need visitors
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20:33:55FromDiscord<b0rsuk> I think Nim doesn't have a single proc or func to get something from an openarray with a default backup value? (poked around and only found a similar func in std/tables)
20:34:23FromDiscord<b0rsuk> (edit) "func" => "proc"
20:34:58FromDiscord<b0rsuk> But in general the best you can do is an inline ternary 😐
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21:39:11FromDiscord<tempestro> That's literally a oneliner to write yourself, isn't it?
21:39:55FromDiscord<tempestro> I've recently tried messing around with built-in sets and they're absolutely horrible
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22:24:30FromDiscord<xierongchuan> In reply to @bung8954 "have u tried switch": thank u, now im using nimlangserver, is not crashing🔥 :3
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