| 00:00:08 | Yardanico | https://i.imgur.com/wiAMMqK.png :P |
| 00:02:11 | codic | hm |
| 00:02:11 | FromGitter | <Knaque> Right, well, it's become clear to me that it's not the most straightforward thing to do. I only *really* care about Windows for what I'm working on, so I can skip on Linux support. I could also do it in something other than Nim, if that would be easier. |
| 00:02:26 | Yardanico | @Knaque well I just gave you a link to registry module |
| 00:02:28 | Yardanico | and it seems quite easy |
| 00:02:39 | Yardanico | just make sure your app is started with admin privileges and set the registry variable |
| 00:02:52 | codic | btw, what font is that? :P |
| 00:02:52 | codic | Knaque: just setUnicodeValue the reg key, you'll have to do this in all languages anyways |
| 00:02:59 | Yardanico | codic: IBM Plex |
| 00:03:01 | FromGitter | <Knaque> And that should be permanent? |
| 00:03:05 | Yardanico | yes |
| 00:03:07 | codic | ah ok |
| 00:03:08 | codic | yes |
| 00:03:21 | codic | for linux, just append to /etc/environment `KEY=VALUE` |
| 00:03:32 | Yardanico | " To programmatically add or modify system environment variables, add them to the HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\CurrentControlSet\Control\Session Manager\Environment registry key, then broadcast a WM_SETTINGCHANGE message with lParam set to the string "Environment"." |
| 00:03:44 | codic | or /etc/profile |
| 00:03:47 | codic | both are systemwide, of course, and both require root permissions to launch the app (ya can't work around that) |
| 00:03:52 | codic | it's just a limitation with windows and linux |
| 00:04:21 | codic | yeah, so setUnicodeValue HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE and add the key. not really familiar with how win registry works so cant help more |
| 00:04:33 | Yardanico | neither am i :D |
| 00:04:39 | codic | also, the registry module has a const HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE if neded it |
| 00:04:43 | codic | *if it's needed |
| 00:04:47 | codic | :p |
| 00:05:36 | FromGitter | <Knaque> I'll give that a shot, then. Thanks for the help. |
| 00:08:21 | FromDiscord | <Technisha Circuit> Is Tensorflow a good choice for making a chat bot in Nim? |
| 00:08:34 | Yardanico | wat |
| 00:08:38 | Yardanico | maybe you meant dialogflow? |
| 00:08:45 | FromDiscord | <Technisha Circuit> (edit) 'bot' => 'ai' |
| 00:08:58 | FromDiscord | <Technisha Circuit> I meant ai, not bot :p |
| 00:09:04 | Yardanico | well if you have time to wrap tensorflow in nim, sure |
| 00:09:16 | Yardanico | it could be done since tensorflow can be used from c++ |
| 00:09:18 | * | dadada quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 00:09:27 | Yardanico | but I doubt that you would be able to do that on the phone :P |
| 00:09:31 | Yardanico | no offence |
| 00:10:00 | Yardanico | since tensorflow is quite big |
| 00:10:14 | FromDiscord | <Technisha Circuit> Already a C++ wrapper for it |
| 00:10:27 | Yardanico | well then it should be possible |
| 00:10:34 | FromDiscord | <Technisha Circuit> https://goo.gl/search/Tensorflow+for+Nim↵MartinR20/tensorflow.nim |
| 00:10:59 | FromDiscord | <Technisha Circuit> https://github.com/MartinR20/tensorflow.nim |
| 00:11:02 | Yardanico | why not try arraymancer first though? :P |
| 00:11:08 | Yardanico | depends on what you want to do of course |
| 00:12:06 | Yardanico | for a chat bot I'd really suggest trying dialogflow |
| 00:12:40 | FromDiscord | <Technisha Circuit> What's arraymancer? And i want to try making a chat ai and then some cli games with an ai |
| 00:12:48 | Yardanico | what do you mean by "ai" |
| 00:12:55 | Yardanico | https://github.com/mratsim/Arraymancer |
| 00:12:56 | FromDiscord | <Technisha Circuit> Well |
| 00:13:03 | Yardanico | and why dialogflow isn't enough for you |
| 00:13:23 | FromDiscord | <Technisha Circuit> A neural network to complete the game i made |
| 00:13:34 | Yardanico | well that's not easy to do, but sure |
| 00:13:42 | FromDiscord | <Technisha Circuit> Nice |
| 00:14:42 | FromDiscord | <Technisha Circuit> Where's dialogflow? I can't find it |
| 00:14:50 | Yardanico | https://dialogflow.com/ |
| 00:14:55 | FromDiscord | <Technisha Circuit> O |
| 00:15:06 | Yardanico | google's cloud-based NLP solution |
| 00:15:25 | * | dadada joined #nim |
| 00:15:30 | FromDiscord | <Technisha Circuit> Oo |
| 00:15:42 | Yardanico | well it wasn't made by google initially, but google bought the startup |
| 00:15:49 | * | dadada is now known as Guest78561 |
| 00:15:57 | FromDiscord | <Technisha Circuit> Nice |
| 00:15:58 | Yardanico | "Google bought the company in September 2016[6] and was initially known as API.AI" |
| 00:16:18 | zacharycarter | wit.ai is pretty good too |
| 00:16:25 | zacharycarter | I used that recently in a hackathon for a chat bot |
| 00:16:32 | Yardanico | oh yeah i need to try wit.ai too |
| 00:16:43 | Yardanico | but dialogflow actually has some more functionality :P |
| 00:16:49 | Yardanico | but wit.ai is completely free |
| 00:17:04 | zacharycarter | well except fb owns all your data |
| 00:17:09 | zacharycarter | but google probably does too with dialogflow |
| 00:17:30 | Yardanico | oh wit.ai is by facebook? didn't know |
| 00:28:07 | FromDiscord | <Technisha Circuit> How to use choosenim to install the latest nightly version? |
| 00:34:40 | FromDiscord | <lex> hi hi! |
| 00:34:45 | FromDiscord | <Technisha Circuit> Heya |
| 00:34:58 | FromDiscord | <lex> sent a long message, see http://ix.io/2nM9 |
| 00:35:08 | FromDiscord | <lex> (edit) 'long message,' => 'code paste,' | 'http://ix.io/2nM9' => 'http://ix.io/2nMa' |
| 00:35:11 | Yardanico | do you have docopt installed? |
| 00:35:15 | FromDiscord | <lex> yep |
| 00:35:18 | FromDiscord | <lex> (edit) 'http://ix.io/2nMa' => 'http://ix.io/2nMb' |
| 00:35:20 | Yardanico | well doesn't seem so :P |
| 00:35:21 | FromDiscord | <lex> I ran `nimble install docopt` |
| 00:35:25 | FromDiscord | <lex> I know ffs |
| 00:35:30 | FromDiscord | <lex> its likely a local/global package issue |
| 00:35:34 | FromDiscord | <lex> i had this with conan as well |
| 00:35:35 | Yardanico | ah you're running nimble build? |
| 00:35:39 | FromDiscord | <lex> yep |
| 00:35:41 | FromDiscord | <lex> am i not meant to |
| 00:35:41 | Yardanico | if you run that you need to specify docopt in your .nimble file too |
| 00:35:50 | FromDiscord | <lex> wait |
| 00:35:54 | FromDiscord | <lex> why wouldnt it be in there automatically |
| 00:36:08 | Yardanico | because nimble reads your .nimble file for all packages it requires |
| 00:36:13 | Yardanico | "nim c" and "nimble c" are different |
| 00:36:15 | FromDiscord | <lex> doesnt it add it in there already like `npm` or `yarn` with `package.json`? |
| 00:36:23 | Yardanico | with "nim c -r" it will work, yes |
| 00:36:32 | Yardanico | but not with "nimble build" unless you add it in your .nimble file in your project |
| 00:36:36 | FromDiscord | <lex> ok, so I've gotta add it to the nimble file manually |
| 00:36:37 | FromDiscord | <lex> ok |
| 00:36:38 | FromDiscord | <lex> awesome |
| 00:36:41 | FromDiscord | <lex> thanks man! lets give it a try |
| 00:37:35 | FromDiscord | <lex> yeah, worked fine. cheers |
| 00:37:37 | FromDiscord | <lex> though |
| 00:37:42 | FromDiscord | <lex> are there any other CLI parsers that I could use |
| 00:37:52 | FromDiscord | <lex> if im honest, docopt isn't really my cup of tea but its the best thing I found |
| 00:37:55 | Yardanico | cligen |
| 00:38:05 | Yardanico | https://github.com/c-blake/cligen |
| 00:38:09 | FromDiscord | <lex> cligen seems a bit odd |
| 00:38:11 | FromDiscord | <lex> dunno why |
| 00:38:27 | FromDiscord | <lex> might need to peep some examples |
| 00:38:51 | FromDiscord | <lex> ugh lool |
| 00:39:01 | FromDiscord | <lex> all these cli frameworks are based so heavily on python ones |
| 00:39:09 | * | Guest78561 quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 00:39:15 | Yardanico | https://nim-lang.org/docs/parseopt.html then |
| 00:40:17 | FromDiscord | <lex> id rather use docopt man thanks though hahaha |
| 00:40:28 | FromDiscord | <lex> could write a wrapper around it to make it more procedure based |
| 00:40:30 | FromDiscord | <lex> also |
| 00:40:40 | FromDiscord | <lex> procedures are basically functions right |
| 00:41:03 | Yardanico | nim has both procedures and functions, which more accurately represents them in a mathematical sense |
| 00:41:12 | Yardanico | "func" is a proc with {.noSideEffect.} |
| 00:41:23 | FromDiscord | <Zed> How hard would it be to implement offline docs for standard libraries? ↵eg: `nim --help:strutils` would show all the documentation for that library and so on for all standard libraries |
| 00:41:38 | Yardanico | i think that's already been done a few times with different libraries/tools |
| 00:41:40 | FromDiscord | <lex> oh I see |
| 00:41:42 | FromDiscord | <lex> question mate |
| 00:41:54 | FromDiscord | <lex> so obviously ive got this |
| 00:41:57 | FromDiscord | <lex> sent a code paste, see http://ix.io/2nMh |
| 00:42:02 | FromDiscord | <lex> what do i do regarding, well |
| 00:42:06 | FromDiscord | <lex> getting anything that comes after `init` |
| 00:42:31 | Yardanico | well, refer to docopt docs? |
| 00:42:42 | Yardanico | https://github.com/docopt/docopt.nim the first example is quite explanatory I think |
| 00:42:46 | FromDiscord | <lex> true lol |
| 00:42:48 | FromDiscord | <lex> thanks |
| 00:45:15 | FromDiscord | <Technisha Circuit> > How to use choosenim to install the latest nightly version?↵:p |
| 00:45:18 | Yardanico | idk |
| 00:45:21 | Yardanico | i dont use choosenim |
| 00:45:23 | * | dadada joined #nim |
| 00:45:46 | * | dadada is now known as Guest98013 |
| 00:45:49 | Yardanico | afaik choosenim supports two notions of "nightly" though |
| 00:45:54 | Yardanico | latest commit and latest nightly build |
| 00:45:57 | Yardanico | which one do you need? |
| 00:46:59 | FromDiscord | <lex> what am I doing wrong |
| 00:47:05 | FromDiscord | <lex> doesnt seem to want to work |
| 00:47:05 | FromDiscord | <lex> sent a code paste, see http://ix.io/2nMi |
| 00:47:30 | FromDiscord | <lex> ah shit |
| 00:47:33 | FromDiscord | <lex> gotta use <> |
| 00:47:59 | FromDiscord | <lex> im assuming I can write modular code with nim right |
| 00:48:09 | Yardanico | yes |
| 00:48:28 | Yardanico | https://nim-lang.org/docs/manual.html#modules |
| 00:48:36 | * | lritter quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 00:48:56 | FromDiscord | <lex> thanks!! |
| 00:49:08 | * | lritter joined #nim |
| 00:53:59 | FromDiscord | <lex> how can i iterate through an array |
| 00:54:00 | FromDiscord | <lex> i.e. |
| 00:54:01 | FromDiscord | <lex> "args" |
| 00:54:38 | Yardanico | for val in args["somevar"]: stuff |
| 00:54:46 | Yardanico | I think |
| 00:54:48 | Yardanico | I didn't really use docopt :_) |
| 00:54:55 | FromDiscord | <lex> ahha thats alright man |
| 00:54:58 | FromDiscord | <lex> see |
| 00:55:00 | FromDiscord | <lex> what im trying to do |
| 00:55:01 | Yardanico | there are https://github.com/docopt/docopt.nim/tree/master/examples |
| 00:55:08 | FromDiscord | <lex> alright yeah |
| 00:55:09 | FromDiscord | <lex> thats cool |
| 00:55:10 | FromDiscord | <lex> thanks man |
| 00:55:17 | Yardanico | like https://github.com/docopt/docopt.nim/blob/master/examples/odd_even.nim |
| 00:55:44 | Yardanico | docopt documentation is on http://docopt.org/ |
| 00:55:51 | FromDiscord | <lex> cheers! |
| 00:55:52 | Yardanico | this lib is a nim implementatiuon of docopt |
| 00:57:58 | FromDiscord | <lex> whats the diff between a proc and method again |
| 00:58:03 | FromDiscord | <lex> and which is better to youu |
| 00:58:05 | FromDiscord | <lex> (edit) 'youu' => 'use' |
| 00:58:09 | Yardanico | static vs runtime dispatch |
| 00:58:14 | Yardanico | in most cases you should be fine with proc |
| 00:58:18 | FromDiscord | <lex> ah alright |
| 00:58:22 | FromDiscord | <lex> could you elaborate? |
| 00:58:27 | FromDiscord | <lex> I just wanna know what im getting into 😅 |
| 00:58:29 | Yardanico | runtime dispatch (methods) is only needed when you have inheritance |
| 00:58:31 | Yardanico | OOP |
| 00:59:07 | FromDiscord | <lex> aha |
| 00:59:07 | FromDiscord | <lex> I see |
| 00:59:08 | FromDiscord | <lex> alright |
| 00:59:11 | FromDiscord | <lex> cheers!! |
| 00:59:12 | Yardanico | you don't exactly need OOP in nim, like the compiler itself doesn't use methods at all |
| 00:59:24 | FromDiscord | <lex> yeah no thats fair enough |
| 00:59:25 | Yardanico | there are other ways like generics, object variants, etc |
| 01:00:49 | * | konvertex quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 01:08:59 | * | Guest98013 quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 01:11:04 | FromDiscord | <codic> Does choosenim support unstable? |
| 01:11:10 | FromDiscord | <codic> The latest nightly binary specifically |
| 01:11:10 | Yardanico | depends on what you mean |
| 01:11:16 | Yardanico | i think it does |
| 01:11:25 | FromDiscord | <codic> Since path configuration with the tar xz is a big pain. |
| 01:11:27 | FromDiscord | <codic> ah, yay. how? |
| 01:11:48 | FromDiscord | <codic> do I make use of it |
| 01:12:03 | Yardanico | choosenim update devel |
| 01:12:15 | Yardanico | and choosenim update devel --latest build latest commit |
| 01:12:24 | Yardanico | "choosenim update devel" download latest nightly |
| 01:12:34 | FromDiscord | <codic> Niice |
| 01:12:47 | Yardanico | well first of all you need "choosenim devel" |
| 01:13:04 | FromDiscord | <codic> where do i get choosenim from |
| 01:13:11 | Yardanico | https://github.com/dom96/choosenim |
| 01:13:15 | FromDiscord | <codic> ah |
| 01:13:16 | FromDiscord | <codic> ok |
| 01:13:18 | Yardanico | https://github.com/dom96/choosenim#unix |
| 01:13:30 | FromDiscord | <codic> Ik |
| 01:13:31 | FromDiscord | <codic> Getting that |
| 01:14:02 | FromDiscord | <codic> Uhhh |
| 01:14:06 | FromDiscord | <codic> sent a code paste, see http://ix.io/2nMr |
| 01:14:07 | FromDiscord | <codic> But I have clang... |
| 01:14:14 | * | krux02 joined #nim |
| 01:14:17 | Yardanico | but is it the default one? |
| 01:14:20 | FromDiscord | <codic> which clang and which clang++ both work |
| 01:14:22 | Yardanico | try "cc" |
| 01:14:23 | FromDiscord | <codic> how do i set the default? |
| 01:14:28 | FromDiscord | <codic> command not found |
| 01:14:30 | * | krux02 quit (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 01:14:34 | Yardanico | that's your problem |
| 01:14:58 | Yardanico | also what are you trying to install choosenim on? |
| 01:14:58 | FromDiscord | <codic> ah hold on, solus provides that via system.devel |
| 01:15:01 | FromDiscord | <codic> solus |
| 01:15:06 | Yardanico | ah ok then |
| 01:15:07 | FromDiscord | <codic> 64bit |
| 01:15:10 | FromDiscord | <codic> amd64 specifically |
| 01:15:14 | Yardanico | but yeah, you need "cc" or have $CC |
| 01:15:22 | Yardanico | @codic I know solus is amd64 only anyway |
| 01:15:24 | FromGitter | <kaushalmodi> codic: https://gist.github.com/genotrance/fb53504a4fba88bc5201d3783df5c522/raw/travis.sh |
| 01:15:25 | * | dadada__ joined #nim |
| 01:15:29 | FromGitter | <kaushalmodi> Use the `--latest` switch |
| 01:15:36 | Yardanico | @kaushalmodi that's not what he wanted |
| 01:15:42 | Yardanico | he wants a nightly build, not latest commit |
| 01:15:42 | FromDiscord | <codic> Yeah ofc↵No, I want the binaries |
| 01:15:53 | FromDiscord | <codic> cc works now |
| 01:15:56 | Yardanico | nice |
| 01:15:57 | Yardanico | try it agian |
| 01:15:57 | FromDiscord | <lex> solus!! |
| 01:16:00 | FromDiscord | <codic> i am |
| 01:16:07 | FromDiscord | <codic> nice, it's installing |
| 01:16:08 | FromDiscord | <lex> send us your neofetch | lolcat |
| 01:16:20 | FromDiscord | <codic> can i remove the normal version and get devel? |
| 01:16:23 | FromDiscord | <codic> umm... sure |
| 01:16:59 | Yardanico | @codic did you really read choosenim readme? |
| 01:17:03 | Yardanico | "Optional: You can specify the initial version you would like the init.sh script to install by specifying the CHOOSENIM_CHOOSE_VERSION environment variable." |
| 01:17:18 | Yardanico | idk how to remove though |
| 01:17:32 | FromDiscord | <codic> @lex here, although I just had to reinstall because i broke something, so still gotta configure it https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/371759389889003532/716097930200875018/unknown.png |
| 01:17:34 | FromDiscord | <codic> oh, nice |
| 01:17:39 | FromDiscord | <Technisha Circuit> > latest commit and latest nightly build↵Preferably newest commit :p |
| 01:17:46 | FromDiscord | <codic> --latest |
| 01:17:50 | Yardanico | choosenim devel --latest |
| 01:17:53 | FromDiscord | <codic> choosenim update devel --latest |
| 01:17:56 | FromDiscord | <codic> oh |
| 01:18:00 | FromDiscord | <Technisha Circuit> Thanks :P |
| 01:18:00 | FromDiscord | <lex> @codic https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/371759389889003532/716098049545338910/unknown.png |
| 01:18:01 | Yardanico | update is when you already have it |
| 01:18:11 | FromDiscord | <codic> @lex nice, #offtopic? |
| 01:18:16 | FromDiscord | <lex> ya sure |
| 01:18:42 | * | chemist69 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 01:20:14 | * | chemist69 joined #nim |
| 01:20:16 | FromDiscord | <codic> aaaaah can't figure out how to remove |
| 01:21:45 | Yardanico | remove the foler |
| 01:21:47 | Yardanico | folder* |
| 01:21:52 | Yardanico | in ~/.nimble/toolchains somewhere |
| 01:21:57 | Yardanico | or ~/.choosenim idk |
| 01:22:19 | FromDiscord | <codic> rm -rf .{choosenim,nimble} |
| 01:22:20 | FromDiscord | <codic> there |
| 01:23:00 | Yardanico | nice |
| 01:23:06 | Yardanico | you also removed all your nimble packages with that command |
| 01:23:16 | Yardanico | and even choosenim itself maybe |
| 01:23:32 | FromDiscord | <codic> i didn't have any |
| 01:23:40 | FromDiscord | <codic> and i can redownload anyways |
| 01:24:49 | FromDiscord | <codic> just to be safe, `CHOOSENIM_CHOOSE_VERSION=devel wget -qO - https://nim-lang.org/choosenim/init.sh | sh`? |
| 01:25:35 | Yardanico | I guess |
| 01:25:40 | Yardanico | as I said I don't use choosenim at all |
| 01:25:44 | Yardanico | last time I used it was in 2018 maybe |
| 01:25:50 | FromDiscord | <codic> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ |
| 01:26:02 | FromDiscord | <codic> aah that installed stable |
| 01:26:03 | FromDiscord | <codic> whatever |
| 01:33:40 | FromGitter | <bung87> ``` code paste, see link``` [https://gitter.im/nim-lang/Nim?at=5ed1b7f4b101510b20271b39] |
| 01:33:50 | FromGitter | <bung87> am I doing right ? |
| 01:36:27 | FromDiscord | <codic> aaa i need a good way to get the nightly |
| 01:37:20 | Yardanico | just download it |
| 01:38:42 | * | bjornroberg quit (Quit: leaving) |
| 01:39:02 | * | dadada__ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 01:39:34 | FromDiscord | <codic> i did |
| 01:39:37 | FromDiscord | <codic> keeps complaining nim isnt in path |
| 01:39:57 | FromDiscord | <codic> also i cant find v1.3 for amd64 |
| 01:40:01 | FromDiscord | <codic> only 1.2.1 |
| 01:40:41 | Yardanico | @codic well you should either add the dir in path or symlink the binary to a place which is in path |
| 01:40:55 | Yardanico | @codic https://github.com/nim-lang/nightlies/releases/tag/2020-05-28-devel-fe7a2d6 |
| 01:40:59 | Yardanico | ah nvm |
| 01:41:13 | FromDiscord | <codic> no amd in there |
| 01:41:16 | FromDiscord | <codic> > @codic well you should either add the dir in path or symlink the binary to a place which is in path |
| 01:41:20 | FromDiscord | <codic> ok, will do in /etc/environment |
| 01:43:49 | bung | I realize no need to do that |
| 01:45:23 | * | dadada joined #nim |
| 01:45:47 | * | dadada is now known as Guest89423 |
| 01:46:24 | FromDiscord | <Technisha Circuit> How do i use symlinks :∆ |
| 01:46:31 | Yardanico | ln --help |
| 01:46:39 | FromDiscord | <Technisha Circuit> I've never used them before 😅 |
| 02:03:51 | FromDiscord | <Technisha Circuit> Is there a way to make it so when I'm using the js backend, any variable names i define are the exact name and not `name_829292` or something like that? |
| 02:04:44 | FromDiscord | <Technisha Circuit> I'm focusing on nodejs specifically |
| 02:04:46 | Yardanico | why would you want that? |
| 02:05:19 | FromDiscord | <Technisha Circuit> Because then my friends bot wouldn't be able to register commands made with Nim |
| 02:05:55 | FromDiscord | <Technisha Circuit> (edit) 'Because then my friends bot wouldn't be able to register commands made with Nim ... ' => 'Because then my friends bot wouldn't be able to register commands made with Nimvia the js backend' |
| 02:06:03 | * | opal quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 02:06:08 | Yardanico | still don't really understand what you mean |
| 02:06:17 | Yardanico | you know "asm" exists, right? it allows you to write js code inline in nim code |
| 02:06:18 | Yardanico | also emit |
| 02:06:24 | Yardanico | also importc |
| 02:06:54 | FromDiscord | <Technisha Circuit> Basically, the command handler he made needs the exact variable name `name` in the code to register a command |
| 02:06:58 | FromDiscord | <Technisha Circuit> Otherwise it won't work |
| 02:07:15 | FromDiscord | <Technisha Circuit> (edit) 'command' => 'command, similar issue for the rest of the code' |
| 02:07:41 | Yardanico | var name {.exportc.} = 5 |
| 02:07:46 | Yardanico | and in JS it will be just "name" |
| 02:08:18 | FromDiscord | <Technisha Circuit> But I'm using the js backend :P |
| 02:08:21 | Yardanico | same |
| 02:08:25 | Yardanico | importc works for the JS backend too |
| 02:08:27 | Yardanico | and exportc |
| 02:08:33 | Yardanico | (I just tried) |
| 02:08:37 | FromDiscord | <Technisha Circuit> (also i never knew variables work with pragmas) |
| 02:08:39 | FromDiscord | <Technisha Circuit> Oh nice |
| 02:08:43 | FromDiscord | <Technisha Circuit> Thanks! |
| 02:09:17 | * | Guest89423 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 02:15:22 | * | dadada__ joined #nim |
| 02:24:13 | * | dddddd quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 02:25:10 | * | theelous3 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 02:26:46 | * | opal joined #nim |
| 02:27:05 | * | muffindrake quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 02:28:45 | * | muffindrake joined #nim |
| 02:29:11 | * | rockcavera quit (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 02:38:56 | * | dadada__ quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 02:45:30 | * | dadada joined #nim |
| 02:46:02 | * | dadada is now known as Guest77347 |
| 02:46:53 | * | monok joined #nim |
| 02:49:25 | * | mono quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 03:09:49 | * | Guest77347 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 03:15:27 | * | dadada__ joined #nim |
| 03:39:38 | * | dadada__ quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 03:45:25 | * | dadada joined #nim |
| 03:45:48 | * | dadada is now known as Guest39276 |
| 03:50:23 | * | arecaceae quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 03:50:55 | * | arecaceae joined #nim |
| 03:53:32 | * | nsf joined #nim |
| 03:54:26 | disruptek | my serializer takes 0.37s to write 140mb of data with refc, 0.85s to deserialize it from a file. 0.65s to deserialize it from a string. this data takes a full second to check the hash. |
| 03:55:05 | disruptek | under arc, the serialization takes 0.45s but the read takes 0.36s and reading from a string is only 0.22s. just checking the hash is 0.40s. |
| 03:55:16 | disruptek | arc is starting to lay down some big numbers. |
| 03:56:00 | disruptek | not bad for just changing a cli option. |
| 03:58:55 | zacharycarter | you get a job yet? |
| 03:59:17 | disruptek | not yet. |
| 03:59:23 | zacharycarter | slacker |
| 03:59:30 | zacharycarter | come be a disgruntled python developer with me |
| 03:59:51 | disruptek | hmm. |
| 03:59:56 | disruptek | it's austin, right? |
| 04:00:02 | zacharycarter | yeah |
| 04:00:14 | disruptek | where's the ad? |
| 04:00:22 | zacharycarter | our company got listed in Forbes 25 startups most likely to reach a billion dollar valuation |
| 04:00:26 | zacharycarter | like two days ago |
| 04:00:38 | disruptek | you make coffins? |
| 04:00:48 | zacharycarter | if you give any creedence to those types of articles - which I don't |
| 04:01:02 | zacharycarter | we ship them |
| 04:01:16 | disruptek | oh right, it's logistics? |
| 04:01:31 | zacharycarter | https://shipwell.com/careers/ |
| 04:01:33 | zacharycarter | yeah |
| 04:02:26 | disruptek | is that a real photo of the pen? |
| 04:02:29 | disruptek | the bullpen? |
| 04:02:30 | disruptek | christ. |
| 04:02:45 | zacharycarter | I'm so glad I never have to work in a office again |
| 04:02:50 | zacharycarter | an office |
| 04:03:05 | zacharycarter | they need to get rid of that photo, especially post-covid |
| 04:03:31 | zacharycarter | but yeah - when I was applying that photo made me hesitate - thankfully the dev teams were ina wework office across the street |
| 04:03:42 | zacharycarter | also - I don't think you'd need to move to Austin necessarily |
| 04:03:51 | zacharycarter | they'd probably hire you and let you work where you're at |
| 04:04:35 | disruptek | i can't scroll this web-page without it jumping around like cypress fucking hill. |
| 04:04:41 | zacharycarter | lol |
| 04:06:02 | * | supakeen quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.8) |
| 04:06:36 | * | supakeen joined #nim |
| 04:06:43 | * | waleee-cl quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) |
| 04:07:24 | disruptek | you do backend stuff? |
| 04:07:49 | zacharycarter | yeah backend and devops |
| 04:08:00 | zacharycarter | right now they have me building out a data pipeline for the data science team |
| 04:08:05 | zacharycarter | which is like four people fresh out of college |
| 04:08:18 | zacharycarter | and I'm totally shirking the responsibility by telling them to buy databricks |
| 04:08:30 | zacharycarter | but that's just because I don't feel like writing terraform for the rest of my time there |
| 04:08:36 | zacharycarter | which is the alternative |
| 04:08:49 | disruptek | you're making my sphincter clench. |
| 04:08:56 | zacharycarter | mine is already in my mouth |
| 04:09:12 | * | Guest39276 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 04:09:20 | zacharycarter | I'd just go find a job doing systems programming honestly |
| 04:09:28 | zacharycarter | that's what I'd do if I was better at comp sci |
| 04:09:48 | zacharycarter | and will do once I complete about a billion more leet code problems |
| 04:10:11 | zacharycarter | app development is the pits |
| 04:10:51 | disruptek | it's a grind. |
| 04:11:22 | zacharycarter | I mean - I think it's fine if you work with smart people |
| 04:11:44 | zacharycarter | or people that actually care about computer science |
| 04:12:07 | zacharycarter | but the vast majority of app dev jobs now a days are filled with programmers who don't care |
| 04:13:00 | disruptek | i dunno, i don't care enough to win contests or interviews. |
| 04:13:01 | zacharycarter | and who do stupid shit - like build tons of microservices that all communicate with eachother using HTTP / JSON |
| 04:13:43 | disruptek | the thing is, that's the fabric we have to work with. |
| 04:14:24 | disruptek | it's like the '90s and word documents. |
| 04:15:13 | zacharycarter | well - I think there are smart people out there and you don't need to pass a google / amazon / microsoft / fb interview to work with them |
| 04:15:26 | zacharycarter | just need to be a bit selective during your application process |
| 04:15:26 | * | dadada__ joined #nim |
| 04:15:40 | zacharycarter | I just went with Shipwell because it was a ticket back to the US and Austin |
| 04:15:40 | * | rockcavera joined #nim |
| 04:15:59 | disruptek | right. it doesn't look bad. |
| 04:16:04 | zacharycarter | it's okay |
| 04:24:49 | bung | a wraped c object has extro field as proc type , when pass it to c api it will work ? |
| 04:49:44 | leorize | wdym? |
| 04:56:13 | bung | https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/blob/3105909f887f2240c2a7a7071b37e1253a70e3e2/lib/wrappers/mysql.nim#L768 |
| 04:56:51 | bung | the c structure only have fields uppon this line |
| 05:00:29 | leorize | you mean our structure is bigger than the C version? |
| 05:00:50 | * | narimiran joined #nim |
| 05:04:08 | bung | yes, I just wonder the proc fields will also pass to c api ? |
| 05:05:30 | leorize | it will, but the C api will work under it's own idea of the object and wouldn't access the additional fields |
| 05:05:55 | leorize | seems like we get a pass since the API works via pointers |
| 05:06:44 | bung | ok , I understand that. |
| 05:13:11 | FromDiscord | <SeanOMik> What's the easiest way to parse a ISO8601 timestamp |
| 05:13:26 | FromDiscord | <SeanOMik> The timestamp is given in a string btw |
| 05:18:57 | bung | !repo timestamp.nim |
| 05:19:27 | bung | !status |
| 05:19:37 | bung | ok, https://github.com/jackhftang/timestamp.nim |
| 05:19:43 | Prestige | rip bot |
| 05:19:54 | leorize | disruptek: did you turn disbot off again? |
| 05:21:36 | * | disruptek quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 05:21:36 | * | disbot quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 05:23:37 | * | disbot joined #nim |
| 05:25:03 | * | disruptek joined #nim |
| 05:28:30 | bung | @leorize I double checked the fields even not considering procs fields, they are also differient fields number and order |
| 05:29:12 | bung | guess that will not be compatible ? |
| 05:29:14 | leorize | oh now that's a problem |
| 05:29:16 | leorize | yea |
| 05:29:56 | bung | https://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.6/en/c-api-prepared-statement-data-structures.html |
| 05:30:27 | bung | I checked it from document, let me check some other programming language source code. |
| 05:34:15 | leorize | I'd say check mariadb docs |
| 05:34:21 | leorize | that's what everyone uses nowadays |
| 05:38:17 | bung | ok |
| 05:50:30 | * | opDispatch quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!) |
| 05:55:23 | leorize[m] | bung: actually double check with the headers |
| 05:55:44 | leorize[m] | the docs might not reflect how the structure is defined |
| 05:59:29 | * | dadada__ quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 06:00:21 | * | dadada joined #nim |
| 06:00:55 | * | dadada is now known as Guest71876 |
| 06:01:03 | bung | yeah, I downloaded the c source from mariadb |
| 06:01:21 | bung | https://file.io/3KfazvzI see they are differient |
| 06:04:16 | bung | @leorize |
| 06:19:38 | * | narimiran quit (Quit: leaving) |
| 06:22:54 | * | solitudesf joined #nim |
| 06:32:47 | leorize | got 404 |
| 06:40:32 | bung | https://file.io/kqGz3ns1 |
| 06:41:00 | bung | oh ,I forgot it's one time click limited. |
| 06:53:43 | Yardanico | transfer.sh or ix.io |
| 06:55:30 | bung | ok I'v configered transfer.sh |
| 06:56:05 | bung | https://transfer.sh/J7nhl/Screenshot-2020-05-30-at-1.58.08-PM.png |
| 06:57:12 | * | aeverr_ joined #nim |
| 06:57:13 | * | aeverr quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 07:01:27 | Araq | community, please help this guy https://forum.nim-lang.org/t/6389 |
| 07:01:45 | Araq | (I am too busy fixing bugs) |
| 07:02:36 | bung | let me check |
| 07:04:12 | Yardanico | Araq: fwiw their code works for me on latest devel :P |
| 07:04:22 | Yardanico | ah nvm no |
| 07:05:55 | * | Romanson joined #nim |
| 07:06:32 | * | tdc joined #nim |
| 07:09:26 | bung | my guess he should always using kstring |
| 07:09:37 | Yardanico | it fails in actionAddThing |
| 07:10:03 | Yardanico | because nodes are null |
| 07:10:35 | Yardanico | well .isNil returns false but if I try to echo them I get a null exception in js :P |
| 07:10:58 | bung | the dollar Thing returns string |
| 07:11:29 | Yardanico | nah i'm not about that |
| 07:11:39 | Yardanico | it fails because getVNodeById returns nothing |
| 07:11:40 | Yardanico | null |
| 07:11:43 | Yardanico | (in JS it's null) |
| 07:13:29 | Yardanico | oh wait so actually the nodes aren't null |
| 07:13:33 | Yardanico | but .value() returns null |
| 07:16:55 | bung | hmm cant be that I guess , It just call .value isn't it ? |
| 07:17:00 | Yardanico | well it can |
| 07:17:02 | Yardanico | .value() returns null |
| 07:17:06 | Yardanico | nil in nim |
| 07:17:23 | Yardanico | maybe calling value is incorrect there? idk js or karax really :D |
| 07:21:54 | bung | hmm it's a property I searched the karax doc |
| 07:22:27 | Yardanico | I don't think it's the right way to get a value from input |
| 07:23:12 | Yardanico | value only exists for VNodeKind.text |
| 07:23:36 | Yardanico | and input itself *is not* text |
| 07:23:58 | bung | so inputNode.value |
| 07:24:01 | Yardanico | no |
| 07:24:38 | bung | https://github.com/pragmagic/karax/search?p=1&q=.value&unscoped_q=.value |
| 07:24:51 | Yardanico | yes, so as you can see there's no place where it's set implicitly |
| 07:24:56 | Yardanico | so you have to create your own component to have it |
| 07:29:29 | bung | ah , he mixed the traditional web tecnics and vdom |
| 07:29:59 | Yardanico | ye |
| 07:30:43 | bung | hmm , got no benefit by using karax.. |
| 07:31:55 | bung | let me give some tip to him |
| 07:43:14 | FromGitter | <eagledot> Are there nim bindings available for openCV based on C++ Api ? |
| 07:44:45 | Yardanico | don't think so |
| 07:44:56 | Yardanico | ah well there's https://github.com/xomachine/opencv2-nim but last commit in 2015 |
| 07:48:00 | * | gargle joined #nim |
| 07:48:33 | gargle | Hi. What would be the best way to start with a rest api server in Nim? |
| 07:48:51 | Yardanico | gargle: I guess reading https://nim-lang.org/docs/json.html and using https://github.com/dom96/jester ? |
| 07:49:50 | Yardanico | for the DB you can use https://github.com/moigagoo/norm |
| 07:50:07 | FromGitter | <eagledot> Is there anyway i can access webcam using any nim's library? |
| 07:50:28 | Yardanico | don't know, sorry :( you might ask on the forum |
| 07:50:38 | gargle | will this work on Windows? How is it with concurrency/parallelism? |
| 07:50:45 | gargle | i want something like go |
| 07:50:50 | gargle | go's net/http |
| 07:50:53 | Yardanico | gargle: 1) yes 2) on windows - not really good, but on *nix it's fine |
| 07:51:01 | gargle | hmmmmmm |
| 07:51:04 | Yardanico | jester uses httpbeast on *nix platforms which allows it to have threaded async |
| 07:51:29 | Yardanico | well I mean concurrency will be fine |
| 07:51:32 | Yardanico | async works fine on windows |
| 07:51:53 | Yardanico | not parallelism though, for that you'll have to create threads yourself or use something like Weave (for computational heavy tasks) |
| 07:52:33 | * | solitudesf quit (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 07:53:04 | * | nsf quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.8) |
| 07:53:23 | gargle | thankie |
| 07:53:57 | * | solitudesf joined #nim |
| 07:56:37 | * | gargle quit (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 07:59:15 | * | idf joined #nim |
| 08:03:08 | * | defection joined #nim |
| 08:03:43 | * | defection quit (Client Quit) |
| 08:24:09 | * | fredrikhr joined #nim |
| 08:27:29 | * | neceve joined #nim |
| 08:42:54 | * | Guest71876 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 08:45:25 | * | dadada joined #nim |
| 08:45:49 | * | dadada is now known as Guest8421 |
| 08:45:50 | * | Trustable joined #nim |
| 09:14:30 | * | Romanson quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) |
| 09:20:21 | * | konvertex joined #nim |
| 09:28:47 | * | chemist69 quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 09:29:45 | * | chemist69 joined #nim |
| 09:35:47 | alehander92 | oi |
| 09:35:51 | alehander92 | blessed morning |
| 09:36:25 | alehander92 | i am going to try to write some todo-s now |
| 09:37:30 | Zevv | maybe you should put trying to write some todo-s on the top of your todo list |
| 09:37:51 | Zevv | you know that feeling, when you are trying to accomplish something, you end up in this recursive tree of trivialities? |
| 09:40:48 | FromGitter | <bung87> or finished a todo liat then create another todo list |
| 09:43:26 | alehander92 | yeahhh |
| 09:43:36 | alehander92 | actually no |
| 09:43:39 | alehander92 | i just like todos |
| 09:50:23 | * | Guest8421 quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 09:58:36 | * | dddddd joined #nim |
| 10:00:26 | * | dadada joined #nim |
| 10:00:56 | * | dadada is now known as Guest55682 |
| 10:01:25 | dom96 | 'morning |
| 10:02:20 | livcd | evening ) |
| 10:18:55 | FromDiscord | <KrispPurg> Is there an libopus library for Nim? |
| 10:19:01 | FromDiscord | <lex> like |
| 10:19:02 | FromDiscord | <KrispPurg> (edit) 'libopus' => 'opus' |
| 10:19:04 | FromDiscord | <lex> for opus-voice |
| 10:19:05 | FromDiscord | <lex> discord bots |
| 10:19:10 | FromDiscord | <KrispPurg> yes |
| 10:19:25 | FromDiscord | <lex> I have no clue, best taking a look at discordnim |
| 10:19:34 | Yardanico | LMAO |
| 10:19:38 | FromDiscord | <KrispPurg> wow |
| 10:19:46 | FromDiscord | <lex> ???? |
| 10:19:50 | FromDiscord | <lex> why LMAO fffffssssss |
| 10:19:56 | Yardanico | krisppurg is the creator of dimscord |
| 10:19:58 | FromDiscord | <KrispPurg> discordnim doesn't have voice lol |
| 10:20:02 | FromDiscord | <lex> oh |
| 10:20:02 | Yardanico | and discordnim is pretty bare |
| 10:20:05 | FromDiscord | <lex> fuck sake |
| 10:20:09 | Yardanico | and abandoned |
| 10:20:12 | Yardanico | @krisppurg https://github.com/search?q=language%3Anim+opus&type=Code |
| 10:20:17 | FromDiscord | <lex> oh ffs |
| 10:20:17 | FromDiscord | <KrispPurg> its okay |
| 10:20:18 | FromDiscord | <lex> you are |
| 10:20:19 | FromDiscord | <lex> LMAO |
| 10:20:56 | FromDiscord | <lex> oop- |
| 10:20:57 | FromDiscord | <lex> sorry mate |
| 10:21:13 | FromDiscord | <KrispPurg> holy damn, looks like I'm off to voice making then. |
| 10:21:22 | FromDiscord | <lex> good luck mate |
| 10:22:00 | FromDiscord | <KrispPurg> thanks I guess. |
| 10:23:44 | * | FromDiscord quit (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 10:23:59 | * | FromDiscord joined #nim |
| 10:24:35 | * | Guest55682 quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 10:29:54 | alehander92 | dom96 |
| 10:29:59 | alehander92 | how is it |
| 10:30:18 | alehander92 | how is the game going? |
| 10:30:22 | dom96 | good |
| 10:30:27 | * | dadada__ joined #nim |
| 10:30:29 | dom96 | Submitted to Google Play |
| 10:30:44 | dom96 | Gonna do some final things today and hopefully attempt to advertise it more widely |
| 10:31:06 | dom96 | Could use someone help in breaking it though :) |
| 10:32:45 | alehander92 | awesome |
| 10:33:24 | alehander92 | hm, i am trying to decide between a vm debugger / and detecting blocking calls to play with today |
| 10:33:58 | Zevv | alehander92: I got something to play with for you :) |
| 10:34:06 | alehander92 | coro? :D |
| 10:34:09 | alehander92 | ok |
| 10:34:22 | Zevv | Well, that will be one of the end results |
| 10:34:31 | alehander92 | ? |
| 10:34:32 | Zevv | but we will also replace iterators and closure iterators |
| 10:34:38 | Zevv | :) |
| 10:34:52 | alehander92 | i dont know |
| 10:34:52 | Zevv | and finally properly join async and threads |
| 10:35:00 | alehander92 | i can help but wouldnt raise my hopes too much :D |
| 10:35:14 | alehander92 | so how? |
| 10:35:19 | Zevv | I'm stuck myself anyway, so it can never get worse, haha |
| 10:35:36 | alehander92 | is there some kind of irc log for it |
| 10:35:40 | alehander92 | or repo |
| 10:35:44 | Zevv | not really, araq dumped me some papers |
| 10:35:51 | Zevv | this is my repo: https://github.com/zevv/nimcsp |
| 10:36:00 | alehander92 | and said "lets rewrite half of nim concepts" |
| 10:36:10 | Zevv | There's a computer science trick of transforming a piece of code to fold your control logic inside out |
| 10:36:23 | alehander92 | ok sounds useful. |
| 10:36:28 | Zevv | when doing that, you effectively get rid of the stack |
| 10:36:56 | Zevv | there is no classical control flow anymore. Everything always goes "forward" only. I've heard of it and played with it some times in the past but never properly got into it. |
| 10:37:49 | Zevv | The idea is that after this transformation a function or proc gets cut up in a number of seprate new procs, and at the end of a proc it returns an object with a pointer to the next function, and the data it should take |
| 10:38:10 | Zevv | Its officialy called a "continuation" |
| 10:38:27 | Zevv | You can call this function right away, but you can also store it and call it when a timeout occures, or when a socket is ready for reading. |
| 10:38:32 | Zevv | And then suddenly it is called "asyn" |
| 10:38:34 | Zevv | async |
| 10:39:27 | Zevv | So what I was trying to do is digest these papers (parts of it, because some parts of it I don't dare come near) and understand the transform. I've done two tiny transforms by hand to make an async socket server thingy, and put it in an event queue. |
| 10:39:46 | Zevv | All proves to work, so where I want to go is making a macro that does this transformation for me |
| 10:39:48 | alehander92 | so what is the problem |
| 10:40:20 | Zevv | the last sentence: this transformation. There's some rules to follow, split up, get local variables out, etc - the README shows a tiny example. |
| 10:40:32 | Zevv | And I want to know if it would be possible to build a macro that does just that |
| 10:40:51 | alehander92 | ok |
| 10:41:00 | Zevv | If that would work, Nim could transfer any proc to a series of continuations, effectively allowing you to run stuff in parallel by magic |
| 10:41:00 | alehander92 | maybe? |
| 10:41:13 | alehander92 | so is there an example |
| 10:41:32 | alehander92 | of the current manual async code AND |
| 10:41:33 | Zevv | check the repo. The readme shows the transformation in some steps, and there's two tiny working examples. |
| 10:41:39 | alehander92 | the expected cleaned up api |
| 10:42:03 | Zevv | The API should probably just a proc with a pragma that invokes the macro. |
| 10:42:16 | FromDiscord | <dom96> TIL there are android phones that have x86 processors |
| 10:42:26 | Zevv | The end result should be that the macro transforms the given proc to the split up procs as given in the examples. But the user will never see that, of course |
| 10:42:49 | Zevv | Anyway, if this kind of stuff sparks your interest, and you're bored, drop in! :) |
| 10:43:08 | Zevv | dom96: right! But it's mostly settop boxes, not phones. |
| 10:43:54 | alehander92 | ok, thank God, i was looking for something useful! |
| 10:43:55 | Zevv | I've been working on a hefty project over the last year where we're running androids in docker and remoting the video and opengl to tiny embedded devices that will then act as if they are running android |
| 10:44:13 | alehander92 | so let's call it `{.cps.}` |
| 10:44:24 | Zevv | That's in my file right now. macro cps() = discard |
| 10:44:27 | Zevv | and now I'm stuck :) |
| 10:44:29 | alehander92 | or `{.cont.}` |
| 10:44:42 | alehander92 | i have to read exactly cps def |
| 10:44:47 | alehander92 | hmmm |
| 10:44:50 | alehander92 | so lets see |
| 10:45:15 | Zevv | There's two papers in the top of the readme, they're from the same author but some years apart. The second goes much deeper. |
| 10:45:57 | FromDiscord | <dom96> Yeah, there is actually some ASUS phones that ran x86 |
| 10:46:05 | Zevv | CPS is one of these things that CS guys in the functional world love to do, just like playing with monads and all these kind of poche constructs normal computer engineers don't understand bollocks about |
| 10:46:08 | FromDiscord | <dom96> The Google play dashboard let's you check the devices your APK supports |
| 10:46:10 | FromDiscord | <dom96> it's quite cool |
| 10:46:14 | alehander92 | french people are good with lang design man |
| 10:46:20 | Zevv | ha :) |
| 10:46:31 | livcd | wait what where |
| 10:48:14 | alehander92 | so cps conversion/lambda lifting/splitting |
| 10:49:20 | Zevv | right. The paper is about doing this in C, and they also have a step they call "boxing", where they move local variables to the heap when someone takes the address, but I think that's something that can wait until later. |
| 10:49:32 | alehander92 | ok |
| 10:49:41 | Zevv | Araq mentioned there's some hidden magic available in Nim to do these things, like lifting, but it's undocumented and hardly tested. |
| 10:50:14 | alehander92 | i read a "thought tool" link yesterday, so embarrasing, so i will apply one : why do we need it |
| 10:50:48 | alehander92 | to make iterators/async/threads simpler/more well cointegrated/more powerful/other? |
| 10:51:16 | Zevv | To get proper coroutines, or call them fibers. These can be used as tools for doing any "unconventional" program flow without needing compiler/language support. |
| 10:51:18 | alehander92 | also, is the lack of stack useful, or is it just a side effect |
| 10:51:34 | Zevv | It is useful. When you want coroutines, you need a stack for each thread. |
| 10:51:42 | alehander92 | ok, so e.g. how would iterators look on top of them |
| 10:51:50 | Zevv | But in C there is just one stack. There are hacks to get multiple stacks, but these are all slow and/or not portable. |
| 10:52:06 | Zevv | When you lose the stack, you are free to continue anywhere in your coded, independed from where you came from. |
| 10:52:13 | alehander92 | call the callsite with the yield |
| 10:52:20 | Zevv | So coroutines, iterators, maybe exception handlers, etc. |
| 10:52:26 | alehander92 | e.g. items => yield(to callsite, value) ? |
| 10:53:51 | Zevv | something like that. In my toy implementation a continuation is an object of type Cond, which has just a proc pointer. Specific continuations inherit from that object and add the data they want to pass to the proc, like a socket or whatever. These are typically the local variables that used to be on the stack, they get moved into the continuation structure by the lambda lifting. |
| 10:54:17 | alehander92 | ok |
| 10:54:32 | * | lritter quit (Quit: Leaving) |
| 10:54:33 | Zevv | The classical CPS approach uses tail calls to go to the next step, but in practice this usually uses trampolines. You don't call the next guy, but you return the address of the next guy. |
| 10:54:35 | * | dadada__ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 10:54:43 | Zevv | The trampoline does "while c: c = c.fn(c.data)" |
| 10:55:30 | Zevv | that will run until there is nothing more to run. Either your program is done, or the continuations are waiting to be called later by an event queue when a timer expires or a socket is ready |
| 10:55:58 | Zevv | Also a *very* cool thing is that these continuations could be run on another thread - real thread - if you want. |
| 10:56:22 | Zevv | So you can make a continuation with a real blocking system call, throw it in a thread pool, and move it back into your own trampoline when it is done. |
| 10:57:19 | Zevv | anyway, that should conclude my ramblings for now, lunchy time! |
| 10:57:21 | alehander92 | :) |
| 10:57:27 | alehander92 | i will try to write down cps |
| 10:57:31 | alehander92 | without understanding ! |
| 10:57:44 | Zevv | haha :) |
| 10:57:57 | alehander92 | but i will |
| 10:58:05 | alehander92 | try to understand the examples |
| 10:58:07 | alehander92 | and think |
| 10:58:08 | alehander92 | oook |
| 10:58:34 | alehander92 | are there other languages |
| 10:58:41 | Zevv | The biggest problem is that one of this steps is done be inserting gotos and then moving the goto labeled blocks into procs. That's not something that can be easily represented with NimNodes, so I'm kind of stuck on how to do that part. |
| 10:58:43 | alehander92 | which do it in the same way? there should be many i guess |
| 10:58:52 | Zevv | Yeah, haskell, ocaml, all the nerdy ones |
| 10:58:54 | alehander92 | what i mean is, is there something very unusual about this setup |
| 10:58:58 | alehander92 | ah nerd stuff |
| 10:59:10 | Zevv | it's very functional |
| 10:59:20 | Zevv | and not common in imperative languages |
| 10:59:59 | Zevv | also I think it's just one of those things that does not make sense for mortals. It live in the same dimension as Y-combinators and monads |
| 11:00:24 | * | dadada joined #nim |
| 11:00:53 | * | dadada is now known as Guest13878 |
| 11:01:01 | alehander92 | ok |
| 11:03:44 | Zevv | araq started this byw, so blame him |
| 11:08:59 | * | aeverr_ quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!) |
| 11:09:16 | * | aeverr_ joined #nim |
| 11:09:21 | * | aeverr_ is now known as aeverr |
| 11:11:16 | * | Guest13878 quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 11:12:47 | * | dadada__ joined #nim |
| 11:15:47 | * | Trustable quit (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 11:23:57 | FromGitter | <mratsim> @Zevv: https://github.com/zevv/nimcsp#converting-gotos-to-nested-procs |
| 11:24:00 | FromGitter | <mratsim> This is not true |
| 11:24:07 | FromGitter | <mratsim> you have access to gotos in Nim |
| 11:24:26 | Zevv | {.emit.:"goto foo".} ? |
| 11:24:53 | FromGitter | <mratsim> No |
| 11:25:00 | Zevv | my point also was that these goto's are not really needed - they are a intermediate step for the transformation only |
| 11:25:11 | FromGitter | <mratsim> Run synthesis example state machine with -d:debugSynthesis - https://github.com/mratsim/Synthesis/blob/master/synthesis/factory.nim#L425 |
| 11:25:39 | FromGitter | <mratsim> basically "var myEnum {.goto.}: MyEnum" |
| 11:26:00 | Zevv | oh right - I forgot about those. I played with those for npeg once, but could not get them to do what I needed. In the end I just use a computerGoto case in a loop, which gets totally compiled away at the C level. |
| 11:26:03 | FromGitter | <mratsim> and when you assign a new enum value to "myEnum" it goes to that part of the "switch" statement |
| 11:26:55 | Zevv | I'll have to look into these again one day. But then again, it's tied to the switch right? Which doesn't allow the kind of goto's needed in the transformation, which goes in and out blocks and scopes |
| 11:27:01 | FromGitter | <mratsim> you can compile this to study the Nim code generated: https://github.com/mratsim/Synthesis/blob/master/examples/water_phase_transitions.nim |
| 11:27:27 | Zevv | yeah, I've studied that, its funny how it resembles npeg |
| 11:27:28 | FromGitter | <mratsim> if the switch is the "main" top level thing it can |
| 11:27:43 | FromGitter | <mratsim> well you need state machines to implement a parser ;) |
| 11:27:49 | Zevv | true, that |
| 11:28:50 | FromGitter | <mratsim> now, we probably want this to work in JS (do we?) so I'm not sure we can make goto work like that there but I might be wrong |
| 11:29:11 | Zevv | no, but see above: the goto's are merely virtual |
| 11:29:31 | Zevv | they are used as an intermediate step in the transformation as it is described in the docs Araq pointed me to. |
| 11:30:01 | Zevv | But in the step right after, all goto label blocks are changed into procs and the goto's go away |
| 11:30:09 | FromGitter | <mratsim> okay |
| 11:30:12 | alehander92 | mratsim is the guy ! |
| 11:30:19 | alehander92 | otherwise yeah |
| 11:30:21 | Zevv | sure, tell me about it |
| 11:30:29 | alehander92 | one can simulate those with other nodes i think |
| 11:30:32 | alehander92 | if its just temp |
| 11:30:44 | Zevv | you don't have to represent them in-tree I guess |
| 11:31:02 | Zevv | you can just make notes in your own administration telling "here is a goto" and "here is a destination" |
| 11:31:03 | FromGitter | <mratsim> I don't mind having an in-tree representation |
| 11:31:06 | Zevv | and pick up the SAT from there |
| 11:31:08 | Zevv | AST |
| 11:31:28 | FromGitter | <mratsim> Tasks can be represented as continuation |
| 11:31:36 | Zevv | that's the whole point |
| 11:31:54 | Zevv | that's where this should go. |
| 11:32:05 | FromGitter | <mratsim> If those stuff can be saved on the heap with a custom allocator that may be used in Weave |
| 11:32:25 | Zevv | it absolutely makes sense to snuggle with Weave if this will work |
| 11:33:08 | FromGitter | <mratsim> basically ⏎ ⏎ ``` code paste, see link``` [https://gitter.im/nim-lang/Nim?at=5ed2447427513a72fbc17232] |
| 11:33:40 | Zevv | right |
| 11:33:41 | FromGitter | <mratsim> Executormetadata can be async or multithreading specific |
| 11:33:49 | FromGitter | <mratsim> or simple threadpool |
| 11:34:29 | Zevv | it should be possible to mix and match. You can offload a task to a threadpool if it will do blocking things, and adopt it back in another thread when it is completed. |
| 11:34:30 | alehander92 | i think |
| 11:34:33 | alehander92 | you should use |
| 11:34:37 | alehander92 | a simple seq |
| 11:34:42 | alehander92 | or something |
| 11:34:56 | FromGitter | <mratsim> for what? |
| 11:36:00 | alehander92 | the |
| 11:36:06 | alehander92 | virtual goto stuff in macros sorry |
| 11:36:39 | FromGitter | <mratsim> ah, well I don't really care what is used at compile-time as long as it doesn't increase compile-time too much |
| 11:36:40 | alehander92 | ok, the custom allocator thing: is it a part of meta |
| 11:36:49 | FromGitter | <mratsim> no |
| 11:36:58 | FromGitter | <mratsim> it's for the ptr object |
| 11:37:07 | FromGitter | <mratsim> but we might want to make it a simple object |
| 11:37:34 | FromGitter | <mratsim> Memory allocation is the overhead bottleneck in Weave and Rust AsyncIO |
| 11:37:38 | Zevv | first make something work, optimize later :) |
| 11:37:53 | alehander92 | yeah i see |
| 11:38:05 | alehander92 | so about the stack and variables |
| 11:38:06 | FromGitter | <mratsim> I solved it by having a memory pool to handle my channels/futures/flowvar and my Task allocations |
| 11:38:35 | FromGitter | <mratsim> Rust solved it by making the Task an "inline" field of their Future implementation |
| 11:38:38 | alehander92 | one thing i dont get is : i can pass them to another thread because the 'stack' would be replaced by heap values / structs |
| 11:38:44 | FromGitter | <mratsim> so they only allocate once instead of 2 |
| 11:38:49 | alehander92 | can this somehow be applied for process-es too |
| 11:39:02 | alehander92 | yeah a custom allocator would make sense |
| 11:39:05 | FromGitter | <mratsim> you should use sockets to share between processes |
| 11:39:15 | alehander92 | ok, so one copies between them |
| 11:39:25 | alehander92 | yeah thats probably inevitable |
| 11:39:32 | alehander92 | but we can use mmap right ? |
| 11:39:37 | Zevv | don't go there |
| 11:39:43 | alehander92 | if we are sure that *some* values are read-only or something |
| 11:39:45 | FromGitter | <mratsim> but mmap is POSIX only |
| 11:39:57 | alehander92 | well yeah, but it can still be a valid optimization |
| 11:40:20 | alehander92 | it seems windows does have |
| 11:40:24 | alehander92 | something similar |
| 11:40:27 | FromGitter | <mratsim> mmm sure but I think this goes beyond the scope of Nim stdlib |
| 11:40:45 | alehander92 | but maybe such a file |
| 11:40:59 | FromGitter | <mratsim> I expect if you share huge chunk of data between processes it would be a read-only file on disk or via a DB |
| 11:41:02 | alehander92 | mratsim yeah, probably |
| 11:41:25 | alehander92 | but this can be slower |
| 11:41:33 | alehander92 | i am thinking of stuff like parallel compilation |
| 11:41:36 | alehander92 | and similar |
| 11:41:44 | FromGitter | <mratsim> sure, but when you are concerned about sharing speed you use threads anyway not processes |
| 11:41:47 | alehander92 | where you might want to just share some shared trees/all kinds of objects |
| 11:41:59 | alehander92 | but with threads you dont get multicore parallelism |
| 11:42:07 | Zevv | sure you get |
| 11:42:13 | FromGitter | <mratsim> you get multithreading |
| 11:42:25 | FromGitter | <mratsim> it uses all my cores |
| 11:42:34 | alehander92 | hm, so can one do data parallelism |
| 11:43:03 | FromGitter | <mratsim> Run this demo, it will use all your cores: https://github.com/mratsim/weave/tree/master/demos/raytracing |
| 11:44:21 | alehander92 | hm ok |
| 11:44:43 | alehander92 | i also used `||` and openmp |
| 11:44:48 | alehander92 | i just didnt realize how it works |
| 11:44:48 | FromGitter | <mratsim> For me, processes are used to isolate memory addresses |
| 11:44:50 | alehander92 | internally |
| 11:44:56 | * | xet7 quit (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 11:45:11 | FromGitter | <mratsim> it transforms the inner "for" scope into a closure |
| 11:45:19 | FromGitter | <mratsim> that captures all the variables used inside |
| 11:45:20 | alehander92 | i know weave is different! |
| 11:45:34 | FromGitter | <mratsim> Weave really does the same when you call "parallelFor" |
| 11:45:42 | FromGitter | <mratsim> except that the capturing is explicit |
| 11:45:46 | alehander92 | i see |
| 11:45:50 | FromGitter | <mratsim> what is different is the load balancing |
| 11:45:55 | alehander92 | ok, sorry for the offtopic |
| 11:46:44 | alehander92 | so about the |
| 11:46:46 | alehander92 | macro |
| 11:47:44 | alehander92 | one can mostly generate a PNode with calls |
| 11:47:48 | alehander92 | directly zevv |
| 11:47:55 | alehander92 | i dont see why you should generate goto-s |
| 11:48:02 | alehander92 | if you just replace them with equivalent calls anyway |
| 11:48:32 | alehander92 | just you generate a call<n> instead of goto n |
| 11:48:34 | alehander92 | etc |
| 11:52:40 | Zevv | right that was my point |
| 11:52:54 | Zevv | its just a trick to illustrate the transform in the paper |
| 11:53:28 | Zevv | the problem is that you cant "just generate a call" because you dont know what goes into what proc until youre done |
| 11:53:43 | Zevv | the gotos are just markers to see where you need tp cut your cake |
| 11:54:15 | Zevv | but you need to be done cutting before you can wrap them up in procs |
| 11:54:34 | alehander92 | then the variables no |
| 11:54:39 | Zevv | thats why I mentioned just making out-of-tree notes of your calls and your targets |
| 11:54:40 | alehander92 | ops |
| 11:54:44 | alehander92 | maybe |
| 11:54:47 | alehander92 | but why do you need it |
| 11:54:50 | alehander92 | my understanding is that |
| 11:55:16 | alehander92 | if you a while/if: you put a label |
| 11:55:30 | alehander92 | so you just start a new procedure with the branch/block anyway instead |
| 11:55:35 | alehander92 | and add a call before that |
| 11:56:30 | alehander92 | if you have a jump(e.g.cps/ break/continue/return etc) you put a goto |
| 11:58:08 | alehander92 | sorry |
| 11:58:13 | alehander92 | maybe this doesnt make sense |
| 11:58:19 | alehander92 | but i think we can try |
| 11:58:29 | alehander92 | otherwise one can always do what you say of course |
| 11:59:29 | alehander92 | and you guys are right: one can still just use a seq of indices+goto/label annoation or |
| 11:59:57 | alehander92 | even a NimNode with `:cps_reserved_goto` |
| 12:00:06 | alehander92 | or something which shouldn't clash |
| 12:00:59 | Zevv | sure |
| 12:05:02 | alehander92 | <3 |
| 12:05:15 | alehander92 | so i guess you would do that |
| 12:05:23 | alehander92 | i can work on the macro debugging |
| 12:06:02 | * | supakeen quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.8) |
| 12:06:43 | * | supakeen joined #nim |
| 12:14:43 | Araq | Zevv: please make fn*: proc(c: Cont): Cont to be {.nimcall.} so that no hidden state can be accidentically introduced |
| 12:14:53 | Zevv | good point |
| 12:15:28 | Zevv | how do you feel about inheriting from Const and genereting a little prelude that takes out the locals, for now |
| 12:15:44 | Zevv | I expect that will get optimized away mostly, and if not, we can do that later |
| 12:16:03 | Zevv | /from Cont/ |
| 12:16:44 | Zevv | that saves me from messing with marshalling for now |
| 12:16:59 | Zevv | and continuations just go on the heap for now as well, I dont care |
| 12:18:24 | alehander92 | so |
| 12:18:29 | alehander92 | how would exceptions work? |
| 12:19:02 | FromDiscord | <Clyybber> lets ignore them for now :p |
| 12:19:04 | alehander92 | one would always pass two paths? one with next function and one with last catch |
| 12:19:09 | alehander92 | except* |
| 12:19:27 | alehander92 | so one can directly continue to the nearest except instead of going back through each frame |
| 12:19:49 | alehander92 | this can make conditins possible |
| 12:19:54 | alehander92 | e.g. restart parse |
| 12:20:12 | alehander92 | where you jump to a particular checkpoint up in the algorithms |
| 12:20:24 | Araq | alehander92: that's one solution, the proc simply takes 2 continuations, one for the happy path, one for the error path |
| 12:21:04 | FromDiscord | <exelotl> Zevv: will it be zero allocation / work on embedded? i.e. would I be able to use it as a replacement for https://github.com/exelotl/ecolo |
| 12:21:29 | alehander92 | awesome |
| 12:21:37 | alehander92 | so i read on a ocaml forum about the happy/error path |
| 12:21:45 | * | luis_ joined #nim |
| 12:21:53 | alehander92 | but would the restart idea |
| 12:21:55 | alehander92 | make sense |
| 12:22:09 | alehander92 | (basically a port of the common lisp concept) |
| 12:23:30 | Araq | exelotl: well the point is to avoid the stack, so the cont would be on the heap, but ideally we regain control over the allocations and you can pool them |
| 12:23:50 | FromDiscord | <Recruit_main707> `x := &BoostPadState{}` this code in go, would be transpiled to nim as: `cast[ptr BoostpadState](alloc(sizeof(BoostpadState)))` ? or the gc will hande this in other easier way |
| 12:24:29 | Araq | sounds more like 'x = new BoostPadState' |
| 12:25:16 | FromDiscord | <Recruit_main707> so id rather use refs instead of ptrs? |
| 12:25:53 | FromDiscord | <Recruit_main707> this code will *hopefully* be automatically generated, so i want it to be fast rather than elegant |
| 12:26:31 | Araq | refs are fine for performance |
| 12:27:05 | FromDiscord | <Recruit_main707> ok, thank you |
| 12:28:53 | Zevv | exelotl: I have no clue how and where this will or will not work. I'm just starting to understand the problem domain |
| 12:29:31 | Zevv | I do *feel* though, that with the absence of stacks, some other form of non-linear memory needs to be provided. That sounds like a heap or pools to me. |
| 12:30:04 | Zevv | wait, what, ecolo |
| 12:30:40 | FromDiscord | <exelotl> Haha that's fair |
| 12:31:05 | Zevv | I'll have to see what's under the hood of ecolo - seems its at least partially doing what I'm trying to do |
| 12:33:39 | FromDiscord | <exelotl> ecolo only works with a few constructs (if, while), and you can only yield from the main script body |
| 12:34:13 | FromDiscord | <exelotl> but its good enough for writinf dialogue scripts in my GBA game :) |
| 12:34:29 | FromDiscord | <exelotl> *writing |
| 12:36:10 | FromDiscord | <exelotl> It's a pretty brute force approach, not based on any papers or formal technique |
| 12:37:31 | Zevv | I'm never feel hindered by my lack of formal techniques. Although I did found out by now that if I really want to get something done, I usually *do* need to get into the formal techniques first. |
| 12:37:40 | Zevv | it's a pain in the behind. |
| 12:53:29 | alehander92 | hmm |
| 12:53:36 | alehander92 | i feel similarly often |
| 12:53:53 | alehander92 | but i do want to get a bit better |
| 12:54:04 | Zevv | nah, I'm over that |
| 12:54:07 | alehander92 | it seem that those guys researched many problems that one clashes with |
| 12:54:23 | Zevv | I just do as I like and enjoy the moment |
| 12:54:29 | alehander92 | yeah thats also good |
| 12:55:59 | zacharycarter | https://github.com/zacharycarter/frag/blob/master/src/fiber.nim |
| 12:56:10 | zacharycarter | basic building blocks for coroutines |
| 12:56:16 | zacharycarter | for posix anyway |
| 12:56:35 | zacharycarter | which will work in a multithreaded env |
| 12:56:57 | Araq | fibers take up more memory and are less portable than what Zevv is working on |
| 12:56:59 | Zevv | yeah, I looked at that as well. But it is all heavy and non portable |
| 12:57:03 | zacharycarter | ah |
| 12:57:32 | zacharycarter | well, eager to see what you come up with :) |
| 12:57:34 | Araq | and Zevv's stuff is based on formal methods even though he denies it :P |
| 12:57:51 | Zevv | says the guy who bought the book |
| 12:58:23 | Araq | I also read it |
| 12:58:32 | zacharycarter | which book? |
| 12:58:53 | Araq | https://www.amazon.de/Compiling-Continuations-Andrew-W-Appel/dp/052103311X |
| 12:58:56 | zacharycarter | thanks |
| 12:59:12 | zacharycarter | ohhh so work is starting to be done on that white paper? |
| 12:59:43 | zacharycarter | that one disruptek was going nuts over a few weekeneds ago |
| 13:00:04 | Zevv | I don't know. I just whined again about not having the flavour of coroutines I prefer, and then this happened |
| 13:00:07 | Zevv | what paper is that? |
| 13:00:15 | zacharycarter | let me try to find it |
| 13:00:32 | Araq | Zevv: the one you already know |
| 13:00:39 | Zevv | ah ok, cool |
| 13:01:21 | Zevv | dang, my repo is even named wrong. It should be nimcps, not nimcsp, haha |
| 13:01:22 | zacharycarter | good I don't have to find it :P I was struggling |
| 13:02:26 | leorize | oh, Zevv invented yet another cool thing? |
| 13:02:30 | leorize | !repo nimcsp |
| 13:02:30 | disbot | 12 https://github.com/zevv/nimcsp -- 9nimcsp: 11Nim CPS (Continuation Passing Style) experiments 15 10⭐ 0🍴 |
| 13:03:35 | Zevv | its just toying around really |
| 13:04:27 | zacharycarter | I think it's pretty easy to rename github repos now |
| 13:04:29 | zacharycarter | :P |
| 13:04:32 | leorize | technically you can imitate goto in Nim :P |
| 13:04:45 | Zevv | I'll rename i if it works |
| 13:04:47 | leorize | named blocks and break are useful for this |
| 13:04:54 | Zevv | leorize: the goto's are a hoax. |
| 13:05:08 | Zevv | they're not really there |
| 13:08:53 | * | luis_ quit (Quit: luis_) |
| 13:09:23 | alehander92 | https://github.com/zacps/blocked |
| 13:09:27 | alehander92 | very smart! |
| 13:09:52 | alehander92 | one can do this idea for similar ct langs like nim/zig/d probably |
| 13:10:10 | alehander92 | i guess also a bit "come on people do this" but its a cool example |
| 13:12:18 | Araq | you can also accept the fact that compilers still lack the AI technology and some bugs are found by testing |
| 13:13:58 | * | luis_ joined #nim |
| 13:15:27 | alehander92 | :) |
| 13:15:34 | alehander92 | that's true! |
| 13:15:43 | alehander92 | which reminds me to try the vm thing |
| 13:16:22 | Araq | and sometimes performance problems are found by profiling. but it's not as much fun as thinking over type and effect system extensions which we don't base on solid computer science and we then we don't prove correct |
| 13:17:06 | alehander92 | that's true |
| 13:17:15 | alehander92 | but after all, we know profiling works |
| 13:17:33 | alehander92 | searching for alternative ways to check things is not always bad |
| 13:18:03 | Zevv | "prove correct", like on page 28 and on in "the paper" |
| 13:19:04 | Zevv | I printed the paper, took out those pages and use the backside for notes, and one for making a paper plane. Much more fun. |
| 13:19:40 | Zevv | I know lambdas, but you can keep the lemmas |
| 13:20:30 | Araq | alehander92: I prefer "re-search" over "search" |
| 13:20:57 | Zevv | I prefer "re-creation" over "creation" |
| 13:21:53 | FromGitter | <sheerluck> I like mashups |
| 13:23:01 | Zevv | what kind of mashups |
| 13:25:26 | Araq | Zevv: you don't have to read the proof but without it I wouldn't have considered their approach |
| 13:26:10 | Araq | as we already have enough unsound stuff in Nim |
| 13:26:12 | Araq | ;-) |
| 13:27:01 | alehander92 | Araq sorry, prooving and soundness are much better indeed! |
| 13:27:10 | Zevv | I feel the same about these things. I'm glad other peoples spent months or years of their lives making sure everthing is provable so I can just use it. |
| 13:27:31 | Zevv | Just as the whole PEG thing. In the end I only learned all the details after implementing, but it is nice to know that someone else made sure it actually works |
| 13:27:47 | * | crem quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 13:29:43 | Araq | does it though? how do you handle left-recursive rules? |
| 13:30:38 | Zevv | By spinning forever and burning your precious CPU cycles until the world comes to an end |
| 13:30:44 | Araq | nah it's ok, you can detect them and produce an error message |
| 13:30:58 | Zevv | I do detect some of them. Others I just added to the doc as "don't do that" |
| 13:31:23 | Zevv | and of course there's pratt precedence in there these days, which helps out for most practical reasons |
| 13:31:58 | Araq | fair enough, most important is that you're aware |
| 13:32:14 | Zevv | I am very aware :) |
| 13:32:28 | Zevv | would be kind of a shame if I weren't by now, right |
| 13:33:10 | FromDiscord | <mratsim> mmmh there is no codegenDecl for type section?↵↵I want to define a vector type as "VecIntrin[N: static int, T: SomeNumber] {.codegenDecl: "$# __attribute__ ((vector_size (16)))".} = object" |
| 13:34:12 | leorize | I guess you will have to walkaround this via {.emit.} then importc :P |
| 13:34:20 | FromDiscord | <mratsim> meeeh |
| 13:34:23 | zacharycarter | now both mratsim and I have wanted this feature |
| 13:34:49 | zacharycarter | the emit / importc solution isn't a goo done |
| 13:34:50 | Araq | and *now* I'm listening :P |
| 13:35:16 | zacharycarter | I just makes sense - if we're compiling to C code we should be able to influence the codegen for type defs |
| 13:35:20 | FromDiscord | <mratsim> https://github.com/numforge/laser/blob/master/benchmarks/vector_math/vector_extension.nim#L2 |
| 13:35:21 | zacharycarter | it* |
| 13:36:08 | FromDiscord | <mratsim> bonus point if the 32 and the 8 in the Float32x8 name can be interpolated from static int and the typedesc without forcing C++ compilation mode |
| 13:36:18 | FromDiscord | <mratsim> sott the FLoat32* |
| 13:36:23 | FromDiscord | <mratsim> sorry the float32* |
| 13:39:33 | Araq | Zevv: speaking of exceptions, they are very important indeed, you need the same mechanism for timeouts. in fact, timeouts and cancellation should be baked into the design from that start |
| 13:40:59 | alehander92 | yeah |
| 13:41:00 | Zevv | Well, I was hoping to get the basic contiuation stuff separate from things like timouts and events. It seems to me that it is a building block that can be used in tons of things, and not only in event loops. That's tier 2 |
| 13:41:04 | alehander92 | i wanted to ask about cancellation |
| 13:41:14 | alehander92 | but i thought its mostly an async thing |
| 13:41:29 | Zevv | cancellation is a matter of aborting the trampoline, not calling the next continuation |
| 13:41:38 | Zevv | and *poof* it's gone |
| 13:41:41 | alehander92 | until the cancellation site |
| 13:41:49 | alehander92 | its similar to an exception maybe |
| 13:42:05 | Zevv | but when talking timouts, you already imply things like event loops and schedulers |
| 13:42:23 | Zevv | but you can also build iterators out of this stuff, and then you don't timeout or cancel |
| 13:42:27 | leorize | I think once you got cancellation working timeout can be trivially implemented :P |
| 13:42:29 | Zevv | well, you might cancel |
| 13:42:38 | Araq | Zevv: good point but you may need to close sockets on cancel |
| 13:42:52 | alehander92 | shouldn't this stuff work even on bare metal |
| 13:43:07 | alehander92 | so event loops/timeout should be somehow configurable at least |
| 13:43:08 | Zevv | Araq: all the hard work put in finalizers, and still *I* need to close sockets |
| 13:43:25 | Araq | well maybe not |
| 13:43:37 | Araq | we'll see |
| 13:43:47 | Zevv | alehander92: it should work anywhere, as far as I am concerned it is all about the transform into continuation form for now. The rest comes after that. |
| 13:44:01 | Araq | yup, that's the way |
| 13:44:20 | alehander92 | <3 |
| 13:44:21 | alehander92 | ok |
| 13:44:30 | FromDiscord | <mratsim> I wouldn't bake timeouts and cancellations into the design right away |
| 13:44:51 | Zevv | I was afraid this had to be done at the compiler level, so I was not even considering going there. But it might be able to work with macros as well |
| 13:44:52 | FromDiscord | <mratsim> it makes sense for async but not for multithreading for example |
| 13:45:00 | Zevv | mratsim: right |
| 13:45:05 | FromDiscord | <mratsim> second, it's a really really tricky part |
| 13:45:22 | FromDiscord | <mratsim> let me find you some Rust inner doc on their v0.3 futures |
| 13:45:59 | leorize | mratsim: after some experimentation I find threads to not cause as much of an overhead in I/O |
| 13:46:01 | alehander92 | did they get it right |
| 13:46:22 | leorize | in fact it can be faster than async |
| 13:46:26 | leorize | throughput-wise |
| 13:46:47 | leorize | spawning a ton of threads come with the cost of virtual memory though (at least on linux) |
| 13:47:00 | Araq | mratsim: as I said, "baking it into the design right away" might amount to "ok, it actually takes two continuations" |
| 13:47:16 | Araq | not much of a burden |
| 13:48:00 | alehander92 | nope, i think threads should be reserved for explicit requests/syscalls/similar |
| 13:48:19 | alehander92 | other thing i am wondering is : can one somehow |
| 13:48:22 | alehander92 | stop the process |
| 13:48:26 | alehander92 | and resume it later |
| 13:48:34 | alehander92 | if one can save all the frames |
| 13:48:35 | alehander92 | on disk |
| 13:48:38 | FromDiscord | <mratsim> https://github.com/rust-lang/rfcs/blob/master/text/2592-futures.md#rationale-drawbacks-and-alternatives |
| 13:49:28 | FromDiscord | <mratsim> In particular↵> What seems to be perhaps new with this RFC is the idea of melding the "trampoline" technique with an explicit, open-ended task/wakeup model. |
| 13:50:00 | FromDiscord | <mratsim> i.e. we might be able to extend Rust async model with continuations |
| 13:50:54 | FromDiscord | <mratsim> The trick seems to be in the poll method implemented that all futures: https://aturon.github.io/tech/2016/09/07/futures-design/ |
| 13:51:02 | FromDiscord | <mratsim> that is an alternative to callbacks |
| 13:51:23 | FromDiscord | <mratsim> > In the demand-driven model, cancellation largely “falls out”. All you have to do is stop polling the future, instead “dropping” it (Rust’s term for destroying the data). And doing so is usually a natural consequence of nested state machines like Join. Futures whose computation requires some special effort to cancel (such as canceling an RPC call) can provide this logic as part of their Drop implementation. |
| 13:52:52 | alehander92 | yeah i never really understood the Drop for cancelation concept before |
| 13:55:46 | * | bjornroberg joined #nim |
| 13:58:48 | FromDiscord | <mratsim> it's push vs pull |
| 13:59:21 | FromDiscord | <mratsim> you tell whatever holds the resource (future/socket/ ...) that you are not waiting anymore |
| 14:00:07 | alehander92 | i have to read more about it |
| 14:02:32 | * | NimBot joined #nim |
| 14:03:38 | FromDiscord | <mratsim> me too 😛 |
| 14:03:52 | FromDiscord | <mratsim> I completely killed the highlighter with emit https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/371759389889003532/716290784294338580/unknown.png |
| 14:11:53 | Araq | mratsim: the problem with the state machine model is that you have 2 dispatch ops, one indirect call for the function handler and inside the function a 'case state of' construct |
| 14:12:37 | Araq | and with continuations you only have one dispatch operation |
| 14:13:31 | Araq | that seems to be the biggest difference, the rest that Rust does amounts to allocation merging which I think we can do too. I hope |
| 14:14:46 | Araq | for example in C++ you can use a "small string optimization" for std::function |
| 14:15:18 | Araq | I think we can do the same for our Cont |
| 14:16:28 | FromDiscord | <dom96> So there is really only 1 day until the deadline for NimConf submissions: https://nim-lang.org/blog/2020/05/14/nim-conference.html |
| 14:16:40 | FromDiscord | <dom96> Everyone submitted their talks? |
| 14:20:07 | alehander92 | ooo |
| 14:22:15 | FromGitter | <alehander92> praise the Lord, it finally worked |
| 14:22:46 | FromGitter | <alehander92> so my nimvm debugger already gives me breakpoints and next-s and stuff |
| 14:23:17 | FromDiscord | <Recruit_main707> nice |
| 14:23:22 | FromGitter | <alehander92> i should add source rendering + locals introspection + some kind of eval |
| 14:24:04 | FromGitter | <alehander92> and callstack |
| 14:27:04 | FromDiscord | <Recruit_main707> if i create a function by writing its ast in a macro, it can then be used as if it was manually written? |
| 14:27:43 | FromDiscord | <Rika> i dont see why not |
| 14:28:05 | FromDiscord | <Rika> theres no real distinction between a handwritten proc and a macro written proc ain there |
| 14:28:09 | * | crem joined #nim |
| 14:28:14 | FromDiscord | <Recruit_main707> ok |
| 14:28:44 | FromDiscord | <Recruit_main707> it could be interesting to write the flatc-nim tool w/ macros then |
| 14:41:44 | FromGitter | <dawkot> is it safe to ignore gcsafe warnings in asynchttpserver and asynchttpbeast? |
| 14:46:57 | FromGitter | <dawkot> Also why can't I silence it |
| 14:46:58 | FromGitter | <dawkot> `````` |
| 14:47:01 | FromGitter | <dawkot> ```invalid pragma: hint[GcUnsafe2]: off``` |
| 14:53:47 | * | Vladar joined #nim |
| 14:59:32 | Araq | isn't it warning[X]:off ? |
| 15:08:58 | * | luis_ quit (Quit: luis_) |
| 15:13:08 | FromDiscord | <mratsim> doesn't really work: https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/issues/4044 |
| 15:13:11 | disbot | ➥ 5{.push hint[XDeclaredButNotUsed]: off.} is not working ; snippet at 12 https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=2nP4 |
| 15:13:17 | FromDiscord | <mratsim> this has a workaround but no true fix |
| 15:13:48 | FromDiscord | <mratsim> https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/issues/11826 |
| 15:13:50 | disbot | ➥ 5{.warning[XXX]: off.} doesn't work ; snippet at 12 https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=2nP5 |
| 15:13:59 | * | luis_ joined #nim |
| 15:18:42 | FromDiscord | <mratsim> sent a long message, see https://discordapp.com/channels/371759389889003530/371759389889003532/716309618346688572 |
| 15:27:43 | FromGitter | <dawkot> Araq, you're right |
| 15:28:09 | FromGitter | <dawkot> ```pragma: hint[GcUnsafe2]: off``` seems to be working |
| 15:28:21 | FromGitter | <dawkot> I mean, ```{.push warning[GcUnsafe2]: off.}``` |
| 15:29:28 | FromGitter | <dawkot> Still, is it safe? |
| 15:29:34 | FromGitter | <dawkot> in the case of asynhttpbeast |
| 15:32:40 | Araq | probably not |
| 15:32:50 | * | rockcavera quit (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 15:38:07 | FromGitter | <dawkot> Jester doesn't show this warning though, I wonder why |
| 15:58:41 | dadada__ | hello ladies and gents |
| 15:58:47 | * | dadada__ is now known as dadada |
| 16:00:23 | FromDiscord | <Rika> hello fake (xd) dadada |
| 16:01:23 | dadada | I tried to optimize the type for a 255 color setting by making it uint8, the result was a lot of ugly code, because I needed to cast it for different abs() and toHex() operations ... in the end with all those casts I'm not sure there's any net positive... by just using int the code becomes simpler |
| 16:01:41 | dadada | but I might waste some memory, ... |
| 16:02:07 | FromDiscord | <Rika> theres a color module |
| 16:02:18 | FromDiscord | <Rika> https://nim-lang.org/docs/colors.html |
| 16:02:53 | FromDiscord | <Rika> unless you're instantiating billions of these, you're prematurely optimizing |
| 16:03:47 | dadada | Rika: no, only about 255 * 3 |
| 16:04:07 | FromDiscord | <Rika> and where are you running this program |
| 16:04:16 | FromDiscord | <Rika> on a computer with kbs of ram? |
| 16:04:19 | dadada | Rika: in my living room :D why do you care :D |
| 16:04:38 | FromDiscord | <Rika> thats not what i mean lmao |
| 16:04:43 | dadada | I know lmao |
| 16:05:12 | dadada | Rika: my computer has a whopping 16gb of RAM, not bragging :D |
| 16:06:25 | FromDiscord | <Rika> so why are you worried about 3 bytes of ram per color |
| 16:06:26 | dadada | it could make a difference on an embedded device, but only a little one :D |
| 16:06:38 | * | filcuc joined #nim |
| 16:07:03 | dadada | Rika: well, moe wants to replace vi/vim, and they run on embedded devices, too, rightß |
| 16:07:06 | dadada | ? |
| 16:07:10 | dadada | :D I probably worry too much |
| 16:07:29 | FromDiscord | <Rika> yeah and 3 bytes aint much is it |
| 16:07:41 | FromDiscord | <Rika> how many colors are you using anyway |
| 16:07:46 | dadada | 255 |
| 16:07:52 | FromDiscord | <Rika> worry about it when you get to it |
| 16:07:59 | FromDiscord | <Rika> when you encounter issues |
| 16:08:44 | FromDiscord | <Rika> theres prolly some fine line you balance on whether to "solve problems as they come" and "solve problems before they happen" |
