<< 01-10-2025 >>
03:03:21*tokyovigilante joined #nim
03:06:16*tokyovigilante quit (Remote host closed the connection)
03:14:01*tokyovigilante joined #nim
03:16:40*tokyovigilante quit (Remote host closed the connection)
03:16:54*tokyovigilante joined #nim
03:28:31*tokyovigilante quit (Remote host closed the connection)
03:29:41*tokyovigilante joined #nim
03:49:48*tokyovigilante quit (Remote host closed the connection)
03:50:03*tokyovigilante joined #nim
04:51:53*tokyovigilante quit (Remote host closed the connection)
04:52:08*tokyovigilante joined #nim
04:57:24*tokyovigilante quit (Remote host closed the connection)
04:57:38*tokyovigilante joined #nim
04:58:30*tokyovigilante quit (Remote host closed the connection)
04:58:46*tokyovigilante joined #nim
06:29:20FromDiscord<0xfab_10> In reply to @yedco.12 "I mean, let him": is V still a scam?
06:58:45FromDiscord<kiloneie> In reply to @fabric.input_output "is V still a": From what little i've heard, not really ? But it's still not a good language, far too young. Like the compilation times they promoted so hard, were the result of, the compiler being very simple and bad... ↵↵Idk, if someone wants to test it hard, do it, and tell us/me the findings :P, i am interested. But i couldn't care less on using it, i hate lying, scams, deceit, etc, with extreme
07:01:50*SchweinDeBurg quit (Quit: WeeChat 4.8.0-dev)
07:03:53*SchweinDeBurg joined #nim
07:09:41*tokyovigilante quit (Remote host closed the connection)
07:09:54*tokyovigilante joined #nim
07:16:46FromDiscord<nevillegg> In reply to @kiloneie "I wouldn't pick V.": eh why
07:16:57*tokyovigilante quit (Remote host closed the connection)
07:17:11*tokyovigilante joined #nim
07:18:18FromDiscord<0xfab_10> In reply to @kiloneie "From what little i've": > were the result of, the compiler being very simple and bad... ↵sounds like a scam to me, afaik they got money
07:25:20FromDiscord<ieltan> was V autofree preceding destructors or something ? i remember it was something heavily hyped back when it was first announced
07:26:49FromDiscord<0xfab_10> automatically inserts free calls smth smth
07:26:51*tokyovigilante quit (Remote host closed the connection)
07:26:53FromDiscord<ieltan> In reply to @fabric.input_output "> were the result": people invested
07:27:07*tokyovigilante joined #nim
07:27:14FromDiscord<0xfab_10> precisely
07:27:14FromDiscord<ieltan> investment is inherently risky, calling that a scam is kinda absurd but i know where you're coming from
07:27:41FromDiscord<0xfab_10> well they hyped it and afaik didn't really deliver on any promise
07:28:35FromDiscord<janakali> In reply to @kiloneie "From what little i've": > the compiler being very simple and bad↵it's not bad per se. They use `tcc` (you can also use it with Nim), it's fast because it does almost no optimizations and even can run as C interpreter.↵Bigger problem was that they were advertising a lot of features that were in WIP state or broken. Also, community is toxic and would attack people for criticism.
07:29:03FromDiscord<ieltan> I don't actually get the flak they have gotten tbh, autofree was heavily hyped and couldnt deliver it's promises, this happens all the time everywhere
07:29:56FromDiscord<ieltan> unless they have been very dishonest i guess lol
07:30:09FromDiscord<0xfab_10> def
07:31:41FromDiscord<0xfab_10> they would block people left and right for criticism or showing a graph/table where V was below something else
07:32:20FromDiscord<0xfab_10> besides other things ofc
07:32:30FromDiscord<0xfab_10> (edit) "they would block people left and right for criticism or ... showing" added "even for"
07:32:42FromDiscord<0xfab_10> (edit) "they would block people left and right for criticism or even for showing a graph/table where V was below something else ... " added "in speed/whatever"
07:32:44FromDiscord<ieltan> 😭
07:32:54FromDiscord<ieltan> thats so petty
07:33:30*tokyovigilante quit (Remote host closed the connection)
07:33:44*tokyovigilante joined #nim
07:34:22FromDiscord<0xfab_10> last time I was involved with them they were bikeshedding removing commas from struct construction syntax when you would break the fields into multiple lines or something
07:34:34FromDiscord<0xfab_10> clownery
07:35:18*tokyovigilante quit (Remote host closed the connection)
07:35:33*tokyovigilante joined #nim
07:36:17FromDiscord<0xfab_10> I remember codegen for `foo() or { return err }` being broken
07:36:28FromDiscord<0xfab_10> (edit) "`foo()" => "`x := foo()"
07:36:54FromDiscord<0xfab_10> it wasn't a bad concept, felt like a usable golang
07:41:18*beholders_eye joined #nim
07:54:12*tokyovigilante quit (Remote host closed the connection)
07:54:27*tokyovigilante joined #nim
07:54:36*tokyovigilante quit (Remote host closed the connection)
07:54:51*tokyovigilante joined #nim
07:57:39*tokyovigilante quit (Remote host closed the connection)
07:57:53*tokyovigilante joined #nim
07:59:27*tokyovigilante quit (Remote host closed the connection)
07:59:41*tokyovigilante joined #nim
08:10:30*tokyovigilante quit (Remote host closed the connection)
08:10:45*tokyovigilante joined #nim
08:37:19*beholders_eye quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
10:45:29FromDiscord<nnsee> In reply to @fabric.input_output "is V still a": this is getting #offtopic, but there was a recent article on it https://bitshifters.cc/2025/05/17/vlang.html
10:48:53FromDiscord<nnsee> wait this is not the article i had in mind
10:53:01FromDiscord<nnsee> i can't find the article i'm talking about
10:54:23FromDiscord<nnsee> oh, i think it was this https://mawfig.github.io/2022/06/18/v-lang-in-2022.html - i remember it being more recent than it actually is
10:54:47FromDiscord<nnsee> hmmmm https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/371759389889003532/1422899541363003443/image.png?ex=68de59f6&is=68dd0876&hm=a9de8f439e3d4893789e4631081b2c0e4c7ce133065ab8a52365b1bfe7f4f1a0&
10:55:54FromDiscord<nnsee> and also this: https://n-skvortsov-1997.github.io/reviews/
11:02:08FromDiscord<aintea> So it's basically a Nim 2
11:02:11FromDiscord<aintea> :lul:
11:22:20FromDiscord<kiloneie> In reply to @nnsee "hmmmm": Not sure on arenas, i think Odin has then, but, that's Nim.
11:27:12FromDiscord<zumi.dxy> In reply to @nnsee "this is getting <#371759607934353448>,": looking forward to his take on Nim, if he ever bothers↵wonder how much of what he says of V applies to current Nim
11:29:47FromDiscord<zumi.dxy> what he says about "no one really cares about you but at least i care enough" is true, but can't help but to think it empowers the camp that isn't far off but made it into the kernel
11:30:01FromDiscord<zumi.dxy> (edit) "what he says about "no one really cares about you but at least i care enough" is true, but can't help but to think it empowers the camp that isn't far off ... butat" added "in behavior" | "in behaviorbut ... made" added "at least"
11:40:07FromDiscord<0xfab_10> the camp with a language?
11:40:12FromDiscord<0xfab_10> (edit) "the camp with a ... language?" added "usable"
11:41:16FromDiscord<zumi.dxy> yeah, and the attitude
11:41:18FromDiscord<zumi.dxy> lul
11:41:27FromDiscord<zumi.dxy> (edit) "and" => "and"
11:42:32FromDiscord<0xfab_10> the attitude of being afraid to interrupt a senior's tantrum that's interrupting them?
11:43:10FromDiscord<mitranim> Meanwhile I'm sitting here furiously writing a draft for yet _another_ language because none satisfy me at the moment 🤦‍♀️ (Nim is fairly close though)
11:43:48FromDiscord<zumi.dxy> In reply to @fabric.input_output "the attitude of being": so they poison the well instead 😏
11:44:32FromDiscord<mitranim> (edit) "Meanwhile I'm sitting here furiously writing a draft for yet _another_ language because none ... satisfy" added "fully"
11:47:35FromDiscord<0xfab_10> you sound more attitude-y than what you make them to be
12:10:08FromDiscord<kiloneie> In reply to @mitranim "Meanwhile I'm sitting here": Nothing is ever perfect, and noone should be rating anything 10/10.
12:13:02FromDiscord<nevillegg> I found my dream language
12:13:20FromDiscord<nevillegg> nim, V, odin.
12:13:29FromDiscord<nevillegg> No Code of Conduct!
12:15:23FromDiscord<nervecenter> In reply to @fabric.input_output "is V still a": I've used it. Doesn't quite seem to be, I translated an example project of mine to it and it had many of the library utilities I needed, plus matched Nim and C++ for performance. It is definitely very much unfinished though, and there are rough edges to the patterns the standard library forces you into.
12:16:02*beholders_eye joined #nim
12:17:21FromDiscord<nervecenter> Eh looking back on it, it's not too bad, but I still prefer Nim's way of doing things between types and library signatures.
12:25:29FromDiscord<yedco.12> In reply to @nevillegg "nim, V, odin.": But can you solve any problem?
12:25:36FromDiscord<yedco.12> Learning syntax is easy
12:27:02FromDiscord<nnsee> In reply to @nevillegg "No Code of Conduct!": what's wrong with a code of conduct?
12:27:29FromDiscord<0xfab_10> In reply to @nervecenter "Eh looking back on": nim seems to me like it has better features and is more extensible tbh, despite the footguns and bugs here and there lol
12:27:35FromDiscord<nnsee> and how is a programming langauage development's code of conduct related to how _anything_ the language itself is
12:27:49FromDiscord<nnsee> it's not like using the language forces _you_ to adopt or even adhere to that coc
12:28:43FromDiscord<nevillegg> In reply to @nnsee "what's wrong with a": I don't like it.
12:28:54FromDiscord<nevillegg> In reply to @yedco.12 "But can you solve": what do you mean by problems though
12:29:30FromDiscord<yedco.12> Can you create a tool using them?
12:30:14FromDiscord<yedco.12> Because learning syntax is easier
12:30:25FromDiscord<yedco.12> But problem solving is hard
12:32:16FromDiscord<yedco.12> Let's say I asked you to implement a fzf clone using v, could you do that? Or are you only into these syntax?
12:32:36FromDiscord<yedco.12> (edit) "these" => "their"
12:33:37*beholders_eye quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
12:37:14FromDiscord<nnsee> In reply to @nevillegg "I don't like it.": yeah but why
12:50:06FromDiscord<yedco.12> In reply to @yedco.12 "Let's say I asked": Looking at your profile, i can say, you are just learning syntax
12:50:44FromDiscord<yedco.12> "Learned GUI" 😭
12:50:55FromDiscord<yedco.12> Bro , you are a beginner
12:51:17FromDiscord<nnsee> why does that matter?
12:51:47FromDiscord<yedco.12> In reply to @nnsee "why does that matter?": It matters
12:52:10FromDiscord<yedco.12> Without knowing how to program
12:52:12FromDiscord<nnsee> 🤔 seems a bit strange to call that out
12:52:25FromDiscord<mitranim> Beginners are entitled to likes and dislikes just like everyone else. But their likes and dislikes are different. What's useful is to articulate likes and dislikes clearly, with reasons
12:52:34FromDiscord<yedco.12> You can't just keep on learning syntax
12:52:49FromDiscord<yedco.12> So you could atleast advice them
12:53:03FromDiscord<mitranim> (edit) "Beginners are entitled to likes and dislikes just like everyone else. But their likes and dislikes are different. What's useful is to articulate likes and dislikes clearly, with reasons ... " added "why"
12:53:22FromDiscord<nnsee> not too sure what you're trying to say. to be honest, i don't even know what your original message meant
12:53:25FromDiscord<mitranim> (edit) "Beginners are entitled to likes and dislikes just like everyone else. But their likes and dislikes are different. What's useful is to articulate ... likesin" added "specific" | "clearly," => "in detail,"
12:53:50FromDiscord<yedco.12> In reply to @nnsee "not too sure what": Did you read his profile?
12:54:19FromDiscord<yedco.12> Do that, and you will know
12:55:13FromDiscord<nnsee> i did and i'm still lost
12:55:21FromDiscord<yedco.12> Cool
12:55:48FromDiscord<yedco.12> That profile looks like, written by some kid
12:56:03FromDiscord<yedco.12> Just my opinion
12:56:14FromDiscord<nnsee> sure? i get the indication that they might be on the younger side
12:56:22FromDiscord<yedco.12> Yes
12:56:27FromDiscord<nnsee> i still don't understand what you're talking about overall
12:56:48FromDiscord<yedco.12> Leave 😄, you won't get it
13:23:45FromDiscord<aethrvmn> In reply to @nnsee "i still don't understand": He's trying to make fun of a young person for being young and trying to get into progtamming by trying out different languages
13:23:55FromDiscord<aethrvmn> (edit) "progtamming" => "programming"
13:24:09FromDiscord<aethrvmn> (edit) "He's" => "They're"
13:27:33FromDiscord<nnsee> that's what i suspected, which is why i prompted them to elaborate
13:27:50FromDiscord<nnsee> that's not very cash money behavior
13:27:56FromDiscord<__jont__> Gatekeeping programming is pretty cringe
13:57:58FromDiscord<yedco.12> In reply to @aethrvmn "They're trying to make": Sure, if you think, that was making fun
13:58:15FromDiscord<yedco.12> (edit) "In reply to @aethrvmn "They're trying to make": Sure, if you think, that was making fun ... " added "😄"
13:58:36FromDiscord<nevillegg> In reply to @yedco.12 "Can you create a": Oh good idea. Wait till it is installed on my nixos
13:58:43FromDiscord<nevillegg> But I have a issue
13:58:48FromDiscord<nevillegg> Systemcalls are unsafe
13:58:58FromDiscord<nevillegg> I want a much more safe way to execute a command
13:59:00FromDiscord<yedco.12> Learning is fun, but implementing is hell
13:59:05FromDiscord<nevillegg> In reply to @__jont__ "Gatekeeping programming is pretty": Yes
13:59:26FromDiscord<nevillegg> In reply to @aethrvmn "They're trying to make": Look a nixos user like me!
13:59:33FromDiscord<yedco.12> I'm not making fun of you, I'm just saying, you will waste time learning too many
13:59:36FromDiscord<nevillegg> I use lix
13:59:40FromDiscord<nevillegg> In reply to @yedco.12 "I'm not making fun": Oh
14:00:07FromDiscord<yedco.12> In reply to @nevillegg "Oh": You will understand, when you find jobs
14:00:21FromDiscord<nevillegg> In reply to @yedco.12 "You will understand, when": Well. I am young so I have like loads of time.
14:00:30FromDiscord<nevillegg> 8th grader.
14:00:47FromDiscord<nevillegg> (edit) "grader." => "grader is me."
14:02:12FromDiscord<nevillegg> In reply to @yedco.12 "You will understand, when": just help me do a safer way for executing a command.
14:02:14FromDiscord<nnsee> In reply to @nevillegg "I want a much": most languages i've worked with provide facilities to call out the `exec()` family of functions, which are "safer" than `system()` (which is what i assume you're talking about). In Nim, this is startProcess in std/osproc (https://nim-lang.org/docs/osproc.html#startProcess%2Cstring%2Cstring%2CopenArray%5Bstring%5D%2CStringTableRef%2Cset%5BProcessOption%5D)
14:02:19FromDiscord<nevillegg> In reply to @nnsee "most languages i've worked": Oh thanks
14:02:27FromDiscord<nevillegg> Is it cross platform
14:02:39FromDiscord<nevillegg> Cuz a program not being cross platform is cringe
14:03:01FromDiscord<nnsee> In reply to @nevillegg "Is it cross platform": yes
14:03:07FromDiscord<yedco.12> In reply to @nevillegg "Cuz a program not": Nim is always
14:03:21FromDiscord<yedco.12> But you can set a os target
14:03:21FromDiscord<nevillegg> In reply to @nnsee "yes": Ok thats gud
14:03:58FromDiscord<nnsee> you can assume that most of the stuff in std is cross-platform unless specified otherwise or if it's in an os-specific module
14:04:02FromDiscord<nevillegg> a
14:04:25FromDiscord<__jont__> If you're using system commands it's not going to be inherently cross platform. That's usually what the standard library is for, to wrap these calls in a platform agnostic way so that you don't have to use calls like that
14:05:52FromDiscord<nevillegg> In reply to @__jont__ "If you're using system": So I want to execute busybox binary with wget↵Unix . /busybox wget↵Win busybox.exe wget
14:06:32FromDiscord<nevillegg> I go.
14:06:54FromDiscord<nnsee> binary names are arbitrary even on a single platform and that's up to you to handle
14:07:07FromDiscord<nnsee> there's no "right" way to uniformly handle this on all platforms
14:12:13FromDiscord<__jont__> sent a long message, see https://pasty.ee/HAfetnRc
14:16:35FromDiscord<__jont__> In reply to @__jont__ "Yeah but like Ras": (this is conceptual. This code is cursed so I can't speak to how robust this exact code is)
14:56:44FromDiscord<kiloneie> Line 68. I don't... understand... https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/371759389889003532/1422960428014899281/Screenshot_2025-10-01_16-55-35.png?ex=68de92ab&is=68dd412b&hm=66ff91b448da6e4581ff4adfb5c4d7412b005c9ea580e57dacb27588966fbfa7&
15:09:44FromDiscord<lainlaylie> exactly what it says
15:09:58FromDiscord<lainlaylie> your else branch has a value (`false`) but your if branch doesnt
15:13:38FromDiscord<nasuray> why is this a template and not a proc?
15:14:14FromDiscord<kiloneie> Because i don't wanna make a keyboardCheck, from 1 argument into 2x
15:25:22*przmk quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
15:25:36*przmk joined #nim
15:27:43FromDiscord<mrfox4201> In reply to @yedco.12 "Also for performance, nim": how?
15:27:47FromDiscord<mrfox4201> In reply to @yedco.12 "Nim is faster than": how?
15:30:37FromDiscord<kiloneie> In reply to @mrfox4201 "how?": Because C++ is OOP, any language that compiles to C, or is a compiled language that doesn't use OOP, can and mostly will be faster than C++. Also, all the benchmarks.
15:31:11FromDiscord<mrfox4201> In reply to @yedco.12 "It may be faster": Alr thanks
15:31:16FromDiscord<mrfox4201> Alr thanks
15:35:59FromDiscord<mrfox4201> why nim doesn't have server tag
15:46:26Amun-Rawhat's server tag?
15:46:59Amun-Raah, discord thingy
15:53:00*przmk quit (Remote host closed the connection)
15:53:06*xtr00 quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
15:55:06*przmk joined #nim
15:55:55FromDiscord<flashqwq> because it doesn't get enough boosts?
16:00:19*xtr00 joined #nim
16:09:40*beholders_eye joined #nim
16:10:27FromDiscord<nevillegg> O_o https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/371759389889003532/1422978978385494093/image.png?ex=68dea3f2&is=68dd5272&hm=63cda5d49f50e46088ebf24df7c21fe8d80dadf9ad4e2309b396463158d1d39d&
16:11:00FromDiscord<nevillegg> Reminded me one of those cyberpunk memes
16:11:56FromDiscord<nevillegg> In reply to @flashqwq "because it doesn't get": insane how it is a verified server
16:40:13*beholders_eye quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
16:56:14*th3r00t joined #nim
17:59:31*LuckyMan joined #nim
20:30:29*anddam quit (Quit: WeeChat 4.5.2)
21:31:34*LuckyMan quit (Quit: LuckyMan)
22:01:36*Lord_Nightmare quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
22:04:13*Lord_Nightmare joined #nim
22:44:25*th3r00t quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)