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| 09:58:45 | Arrrr | Is nim'17 any better than nim'16? |
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| 10:14:00 | Araq | yes. but I still need to structure my plans. |
| 10:14:38 | Araq | wanted to write a forum post about new developments but I figured it's a mess :-) |
| 10:16:01 | Arrrr | Is excusable if you append "WIP" on the title |
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| 13:16:29 | FromGitter | <Varriount> @dom96 What are your thoughts on having Nimble use the builtin SSL API's on Windows? |
| 13:16:57 | FromGitter | <Varriount> Not that such a prospect would be simple. The Windows documentation for SChannel is somewhat complex. |
| 13:24:18 | FromGitter | <Varriount> https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa380536(v=vs.85).aspx |
| 13:28:35 | dom96 | It's not a case of just Nimble |
| 13:28:39 | dom96 | It would be for all apps using SSL |
| 13:28:55 | dom96 | As long as it's secure and it works then sure. |
| 13:30:04 | FromGitter | <Varriount> @dom96 Well, it's used by IE, and various components of the Windows OS (Store, etc). Plus, I assume it's used by C#'s standard library too. |
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| 15:14:41 | subsetpark | Can I ask for a bit of help with ref objects? I still don't really grok them |
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| 16:19:53 | vlad1777d | subsetpark, you can ask, when somebody, who knows answer will be here - he would answer |
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| 16:29:08 | Varriount|Mobile | subsetpark: What's your question? |
| 16:34:37 | federico3 | dom96: deprecated/abandoned pkgs could be removed from packages.json but this would lead to the leftpad security issue. How about adding a "deprecated" tag that makes nimble ignore the package (unless --deprecated is passed)? |
| 16:40:21 | subsetpark | Varriount|Mobile: I still stumble on instantiating and accessing ref objs. One of my types is the Ui object, which has a host: ref Host. Host is a ref to HostObj, which is an object. I have a newHost proc that instantiates a Host with `var h = Host(...)`, then calls new(h), and returns h. It compiles, but if I instantiate a Ui object with the result of |
| 16:40:21 | subsetpark | newHost(), any attempts to access a field on ui.host result in a storage access error. |
| 16:41:02 | Varriount|Mobile | subsetpark: could you post a link to your code? |
| 16:41:03 | dom96 | federico3: create an issue |
| 16:42:26 | subsetpark | https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/nr3WBA5a/ |
| 16:43:16 | subsetpark | Varriount|Mobile: ^ |
| 16:44:22 | subsetpark | This code worked as expected when both Host and Ui were value objects, btw |
| 16:44:39 | Varriount|Mobile | subsetpark: the 'h = Host(...)' syntax implicitly calls new() |
| 16:45:24 | subsetpark | oh damn, is that all? Wow! I wonder how many times this has not worked for me because I called new() when I didn't have to |
| 16:45:25 | federico3 | dom96: #300 |
| 16:45:34 | Varriount|Mobile | So when you call new(h) again, a new blank HostObj-sized chick of memory is allocated |
| 16:45:43 | Varriount|Mobile | *chunk |
| 16:45:56 | Varriount|Mobile | That's the most immediately obvious error |
| 16:46:25 | federico3 | anyone using gamelib ? |
| 16:46:26 | Varriount|Mobile | (And not really something the compiler can catch either) |
| 16:46:33 | subsetpark | Varriount|Mobile: yes, removing that call to new() makes it work perfectly |
| 16:47:38 | subsetpark | But I think my understanding of new() is imperfect... let's say I wanted to keep in the unnecessary new() call, what would I have to do after that to make it work? Assign the object attributes one by one? |
| 16:48:37 | Varriount|Mobile | subsetpark: Also, if you plan on optimizing, keep in mind that string and sequence types, despite being reference types internally, are copy-on-assignment, like object types |
| 16:49:55 | Varriount|Mobile | subsetpark: See this post for an explanation: http://forum.nim-lang.org/t/2665#16502 |
| 16:50:36 | subsetpark | Hm, I see. I think I'll really need to study that |
| 16:50:52 | subsetpark | Do you think that the way I have it going now is broken, or just unoptimized? |
| 16:51:32 | Varriount|Mobile | I couldn't tell |
| 16:52:06 | Varriount|Mobile | subsetpark: I just tell people about this fact whenever I see them using strings, as it tends to be unexpected |
| 16:53:15 | subsetpark | Ha, got it. Thanks so much for the help |
| 16:53:26 | Varriount|Mobile | It really only becomes a problem in benchmarks, or in loops handling lots of string data |
| 16:54:03 | subsetpark | I'm still really wrapping my head around the behavior of reference and value types - nim is my first language that asks me to manage the distinction myself |
| 16:54:05 | Varriount|Mobile | subsetpark: How do you feel about Nim so far? Your code looks pretty well-written. |
| 16:55:51 | subsetpark | I'm really happy with it. It's so expressive, sometimes it feels a little like cheating. |
| 16:56:10 | Varriount|Mobile | subsetpark: You can usually get by with just using reference types everywhere. |
| 16:56:19 | subsetpark | Right now I feel like sometime I am too Pythonic - not paying attention to reference and value types, and just using the default |
| 16:56:23 | subsetpark | At the expense of memory awfulness |
| 16:56:34 | subsetpark | So I am looking forward to getting an intuition on that |
| 16:56:48 | subsetpark | I wouldn't mind richer documentation around ref and value types. |
| 16:57:24 | Varriount|Mobile | Hm. It's a hard distinction to make in a small amount of words. |
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| 16:59:28 | Varriount|Mobile | subsetpark: You might try reading up on C pointers versus structs, although I don't want to scare you off. |
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| 17:02:56 | subsetpark | Yeah I'm familiar with the conceptual distinction - I just don't have a good grasp of the different use cases |
| 17:03:41 | subsetpark | For instance, I only decided to make host a ref in the above code because of a misreading of an error about mutating a var-less parameter |
| 17:04:29 | subsetpark | So without that I wouldn't have any references aside from the ones provided by table etc simply because I couldn't really argue for when to use one |
| 17:07:54 | subsetpark | Maybe that's because this assumes a c background where everything is handled with pointers whereas I come from a background where value handling is preferred for immutability |
| 17:08:32 | Varriount|Mobile | subsetpark: What background is that? |
| 17:11:38 | subsetpark | Erlang/clojure (mostly erlang though hickeys talks have been influential) |
| 17:11:44 | Varriount|Mobile | Well, from a performance perspective, you might choose to use a reference to a sequence of object types, rather than a sequence of reference types, in order to improve performance (processor cache locality). |
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| 17:26:48 | Varriount|Mobile | subsetpark: Additionally, the only true immutability you get in Nim is with object variables assigned to using "let", or constants |
| 17:27:58 | Varriount|Mobile | Even reference variables assigned to using "let" can still have their attributes/members modified |
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| 17:30:36 | Varriount|Mobile | Although, one could always use a term rewriting macro to implement immutability on that level too... |
| 17:37:23 | subsetpark | Then I guess why use value types? |
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| 17:52:43 | subsetpark | Or is it just for situations above - the seq of objects |
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| 18:23:55 | subsetpark | I guess the same logic would apply to objects themselves - for instance, using value tables if they are to be attributes of an object, since you can refer to the object by reference. Essentially using values for everything below the thing being returned and assigned |
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| 19:30:00 | Salewski | In Ruby we have: (1..6).to_a.shuffle # gives => [2, 4, 6, 1, 3, 5] |
| 19:30:40 | Salewski | Can not remember how to convert a range to an Array. I think there was a way. |
| 19:31:57 | Salewski | shuffle is at Rosetta Code, so I assume there is no in Nim std lib? |
| 19:33:57 | def-pri-pub | quit |
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| 19:40:29 | Araq | Salewski: toSeq(1..10) |
| 19:40:51 | Amun_Ra | I get remote address string from acceptAddr, how can I get remote port number? |
| 19:42:08 | Araq | I think 'shuffle' should become part of random.nim |
| 19:42:20 | Araq | since it's tied to the random number generator |
| 19:42:59 | Salewski | Araq, that was my first idea, it was marked as undefined in my NEd editor by nimsuggest. And I did not found it in docs. It is secret? |
| 19:43:17 | Araq | no, it doesn't exist :-) PR please |
| 19:44:34 | Salewski | OK, bye... |
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| 19:52:20 | Amun_Ra | found it, getSockName |
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| 21:23:08 | FromGitter | <rivasiv> hi |
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| 21:35:59 | FromGitter | <rivasiv> I have "packed" structure (with gnu *attribute(packed)*) in the header and would like to use or translate it in nim.. the question is I may "redeclare" that structure in nim file and add .packed. pragma or may import it from c header using something like {importc: "somestruct", packed, final } .. Which will be more correct? |
| 21:36:23 | FromGitter | <rivasiv> or rather which will be more preferable? |
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| 21:49:16 | Araq | rivasiv: .header won't work with the native LLVM based compiler |
| 21:51:19 | FromGitter | <rivasiv> @Araq It looks header isn't nim pragma - I mean that I have c header that I need to wrap to create nim wrapper |
| 21:51:36 | FromGitter | <rivasiv> and there is packed structure |
| 21:52:01 | FromGitter | <rivasiv> I want to understand which method will be more correct |
| 21:52:20 | FromGitter | <rivasiv> and more usable from nim perspective |
| 21:53:58 | FromGitter | <rivasiv> like I donot have clear understanding at the point If I'll make it as direct import with {importc: "somestruct", packed} how I can access struct members ? |
| 21:54:00 | FromGitter | <rivasiv> in nim code |
| 21:54:47 | Araq | use .packed and not importc |
| 21:55:26 | Araq | and .header is a Nim pragma, albeit an "implementation specific" one |
| 21:55:27 | FromGitter | <rivasiv> @Araq Thanks |
| 21:56:25 | FromGitter | <rivasiv> @Araq Yes I understood that I have read documentation and remember that remark. |
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