| 00:00:03 | FromGitter | <zacharycarter> compiles |
| 00:00:48 | FromGitter | <zacharycarter> dom96: I took the liberty |
| 00:01:11 | dom96 | Well... that's not how you should have done it |
| 00:01:11 | arnetheduck | what's the difference? |
| 00:02:43 | FromGitter | <zacharycarter> I did it a few minutes ago - I was also writing a much longer reply to a question, so I didn't provide much explanation |
| 00:02:51 | FromGitter | <zacharycarter> you're right - I should have elaborated |
| 00:03:23 | dom96 | You might be able to edit your comment |
| 00:04:15 | FromGitter | <zacharycarter> Okay I will |
| 00:07:01 | dom96 | your other comment is great though |
| 00:09:48 | FromGitter | <zacharycarter> dom96- ⏎ ⏎ ```code paste, see link``` [https://gitter.im/nim-lang/Nim?at=5a98964c8f1c77ef3a70ae21] |
| 00:09:50 | FromGitter | <zacharycarter> okay? |
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| 00:14:09 | dom96 | yeah, sounds good |
| 00:14:23 | FromGitter | <zacharycarter> 👍 |
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| 00:21:44 | GitDisc | <Hel> am i doing something wrong, for some reason the nim compiler can't find the windows library ever since i moved to the new version |
| 00:21:57 | GitDisc | <Hel> it's part of the oldwinapi that i have installed but it still can't find it |
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| 00:25:23 | GitDisc | <treeform> Congratulations on the 0.18.0! |
| 00:25:29 | dom96 | 'import oldwinapi/windows' |
| 00:26:24 | shodan45 | eep, why was "&" used for string formatting when it was already string concat? that seems like it would cause confusion |
| 00:27:41 | shodan45 | oh, maybe because you typically wouldn't use both of them at the same time? |
| 00:28:01 | dom96 | check out the docs for strformat |
| 00:28:50 | GitDisc | <Hel> `import oldwinapi/windows` gives windows.nim(22905, 10) Error: type mismatch: got <int> but expected 'int32' |
| 00:29:04 | GitDisc | <Hel> `import oldwinapi/windows` gives `windows.nim(22905, 10) Error: type mismatch: got <int> but expected 'int32'` |
| 00:30:26 | GitDisc | <Hel> and winim gives a similar error |
| 00:30:30 | GitDisc | <Hel> just importing it |
| 00:36:20 | GitDisc | <spaceghost> Can I make a nimble project temporarily build using local clones of a couple dependencies? I forked https://github.com/oskca/webview to add some webgl support, and want to test it locally. |
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| 00:36:46 | GitDisc | <spaceghost> I've got a nim app I'm working on that I'd like to use my local checkout of webview with. |
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| 00:45:39 | dom96 | Hel: looks like it needs a fix for latest Nim |
| 00:46:32 | dom96 | let me see if I can fix it |
| 00:48:30 | ldlework | "It is now possible to forward declare object types so that mutually recursive types can be created across module boundaries." |
| 00:48:32 | ldlework | neat |
| 00:50:19 | dom96 | Hel: try `nimble install oldwinapi` and try it again |
| 00:50:54 | GitDisc | <Hel> okay |
| 00:53:08 | GitDisc | <Hel> it compiled correctly, thanks |
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| 00:54:51 | FromGitter | <zetashift> Not liking how the HN thread is devolving into a transpiling/compiling argument instead of feedback for Nim, but cant do much about it hehe |
| 00:57:08 | FromGitter | <zacharycarter> I guess that's my bad :/ |
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| 01:04:48 | FromGitter | <zacharycarter> spaceghost - best way would be to clone your dependency and nimble install |
| 01:05:00 | FromGitter | <zacharycarter> and then reference your nimble projects name |
| 01:05:12 | FromGitter | <zacharycarter> as a dependency |
| 01:18:01 | FromGitter | <zetashift> Meh, it's somewhat unavoidable |
| 01:19:32 | FromGitter | <zetashift> Shit, rust also released a minor update we need to get more imaginary internet points than them |
| 01:21:07 | FromGitter | <zetashift> Also if someone can share it too on: https://lobste.rs/ |
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| 01:27:22 | GitDisc | <spaceghost> zacharycarter: When you say clone the dependency, where do I clone it to? I'm a little unsure of how this works, sorry. |
| 01:28:10 | GitDisc | <spaceghost> Do I just clone it, make changes, nimble install, then cd to my project directory and use the project? |
| 01:28:39 | GitDisc | <spaceghost> Oh now I see! |
| 01:35:23 | GitDisc | <spaceghost> Right now I'm adding webgl support to the webview nimble project and the upstream header project. |
| 01:38:52 | FromGitter | <ZarsBranchkin> Is there any way to get something like `{.importcpp: "#.some_method(@)".}` but for importing C code? |
| 01:39:43 | GitDisc | <spaceghost> Like importc? |
| 01:39:45 | FromGitter | <ZarsBranchkin> This struct has really got me stuck. It's C code, but has `variable->some_function(variable)` call convention |
| 01:40:00 | FromGitter | <ZarsBranchkin> Yeah, but importc will leave it as`some_function(variable);` |
| 01:40:11 | GitDisc | <spaceghost> oh, idk sorry |
| 01:41:44 | FromGitter | <dom96> Spaceghost: you can use nimble develop |
| 01:42:27 | FromGitter | <dom96> Inside the package you want to "link" |
| 01:42:43 | FromGitter | <dom96> See the nimble readme for details. |
| 01:42:58 | FromGitter | <dom96> It's a useful feature for all Nim users |
| 01:43:15 | FromGitter | <dom96> So take note too @zacharycarter |
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| 02:12:32 | Tanger | Yay, v0.18 was released! |
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| 02:21:51 | GitDisc | <spaceghost> exciting. |
| 02:22:18 | GitDisc | <spaceghost> dom96, thanks, I didn't even consider that when I was perusing source on github. I'll give that a go. |
| 02:25:39 | FromGitter | <zetashift> @dom96 how do I let choosenim update to 0.18? |
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| 02:59:58 | FromGitter | <fedkanaut> Is there any way I could associate an int with a type? I have an array of pointers to other arrays which each contain an array for a different type, trying to kludge this together into something the compiler and I can both live with. |
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| 03:04:38 | Tanger | fedknaut: https://nim-lang.org/blog/2018/03/01/version-0180-released.html#installing-0180 |
| 03:04:58 | Tanger | tl;dr choosenim update stable |
| 03:12:40 | Tanger | fedkanaut* ^^ |
| 03:20:00 | FromGitter | <zetashift> D'oh! |
| 03:20:09 | FromGitter | <zetashift> thanks @Tanger |
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| 06:40:23 | FromGitter | <raydf> hey guys |
| 06:40:25 | FromGitter | <raydf> hello |
| 06:40:56 | FromGitter | <raydf> does anyone knows how to use a watcher for on code change to build with nim? |
| 06:41:18 | FromGitter | <raydf> i tried fswatch but nims looks like doesn't return the lock for the std out |
| 06:41:46 | FromGitter | <raydf> it keeps waiting for some input (ctrl-c) |
| 06:47:39 | FromGitter | <cabhishek> @raydf VS code has tasks feature and it works great with the Nim plugin. |
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| 06:51:16 | FromGitter | <raydf> ohhh thanks @cabhishek, do you have an example of a working task file? |
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| 07:35:54 | FromGitter | <alehander42> @krux02 I am not sure if I follow, mismatch in this case still doesn't make sense to me neither for the c, nor for js backend |
| 07:38:43 | FromGitter | <alehander42> nice, in /r/programming the nim release beats the rust one hahaha |
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| 08:00:26 | FromGitter | <tim-st> When I update the `entityToUtf8`from `htmlparser`, should this complete list be supported? https://dev.w3.org/html5/html-author/charref |
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| 08:10:54 | Araq | tim-st: I'm afraid yes. :-( |
| 08:11:14 | FromGitter | <tim-st> that's not a problem, I'd like it ;) |
| 08:11:26 | Araq | seems they based their standard on unicode and then forgot about unicode... |
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| 08:11:59 | Araq | the W3C bloat is out of control IMO. |
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| 08:14:40 | FromGitter | <alehander42> `a*: seq[(proc: void)]` |
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| 08:15:07 | FromGitter | <alehander42> @Araq is this possible at all? Nim expects `{.closure.}` for those procs |
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| 08:15:35 | FromGitter | <alehander42> but if I just have a field with a proc type, it happily accepts a normal top level proc |
| 08:16:01 | Araq | (proc: void)(myproc) |
| 08:16:14 | Araq | it is possilbe |
| 08:16:53 | FromGitter | <alehander42> hmm, that works indeed (and it's enough to just do it for the first element of the seq) |
| 08:17:01 | FromGitter | <alehander42> thanks |
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| 08:19:06 | Araq | does it port to the newest karax? |
| 08:19:15 | Araq | had to change the interface to make routine reliable |
| 08:19:32 | Araq | the renderer without parameter is deprecated |
| 08:19:42 | Araq | *routing |
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| 08:21:36 | FromGitter | <alehander42> I don't really use karax's routing as I target Electron currently |
| 08:23:05 | FromGitter | <alehander42> I had some errors popping up because `clientPostRenderCallback is nil` (because it tries to call a function which has default value of nil in setRenderer), but that's easily fixed |
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| 08:25:54 | FromGitter | <alehander42> ha, I see kstring for the first time in those new examples |
| 08:26:05 | FromGitter | <alehander42> I had something similar in some modules, "defaultstring" |
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| 08:28:59 | FromGitter | <alehander42> I even had `when not defined(js) .. JsAssoc = Table` once, for a type that I used in both backends |
| 08:30:16 | FromGitter | <alehander42> which was dirty, but it works well for compatible definitions haha |
| 08:31:15 | Arrrr | https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/819fiw/nim_0180_released/dv2414n/ |
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| 08:41:48 | FromGitter | <tim-st> The 1.0 windows version of nim definetly needs a setup.exe with add to path and shipped mingw like codeblocks does it, to work out of the box |
| 08:43:27 | Araq | finish.exe does that for you |
| 08:43:56 | Araq | we had NSIS and INNO setup based installers which worked worse. |
| 08:44:32 | Araq | complex to maintain, do not support spaces in paths, optional downloads hard to do and fragile etc etc, no thanks. |
| 08:44:43 | FromGitter | <tim-st> ok |
| 08:45:34 | Araq | we can give finish.nim a UI though or something |
| 08:45:58 | Araq | but it's a programming language, if you cannot unzip and double click |
| 08:46:08 | Araq | how are you able to program then? |
| 08:48:25 | FromGitter | <tim-st> I think it's just much easier to click on install and than everything is installed also compiler etc, also most other languages I know work this way |
| 08:48:56 | FromGitter | <tim-st> btw a first look on 0.18 shows strutils is like before with `\0` should I open an issue about it? |
| 08:49:21 | Araq | there already is an issue about it |
| 08:49:28 | FromGitter | <tim-st> ok |
| 08:49:32 | Arrrr | Will NimScript become a scripting language in the future? I see some projects that allows it up to a certain extent. |
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| 08:51:20 | Araq | Arrrr, NimScript's future is an API you can import more easily into your program |
| 08:51:39 | Araq | comparable to Lua. an "embeddable" language. |
| 08:52:06 | Arrrr | That would be fun |
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| 08:56:39 | FromGitter | <narimiran> just seen that 0.18 is out - congrats to all involved!! |
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| 08:59:49 | planetis[m] | congrats on the release! job well done! |
| 09:00:17 | FromGitter | <mratsim> @Arrrr I’ve replied to the post |
| 09:01:58 | Araq | thanks |
| 09:04:49 | FromGitter | <mratsim> Nim is 2nd place in /r/programming, Rust is 3rd :P |
| 09:05:00 | FromGitter | <dom96> So that's annoying. Our hn post was on the front page for less than 3 hours |
| 09:05:12 | FromGitter | <dom96> Rust's is still there after 9 hours... |
| 09:05:35 | FromGitter | <dom96> And it's a patch release! |
| 09:05:49 | FromGitter | <mratsim> Either HN doesn’t like me or it doesn’t like nim-lang. |
| 09:06:08 | planetis[m] | Also Fred should loose some weight |
| 09:06:08 | FromGitter | <dom96> I'm going to email them and ask what happened |
| 09:06:12 | Arrrr | parseopt2 is already deprecated right? |
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| 09:07:29 | FromGitter | <mratsim> Actually when I look at HN second page, I’m wondering about all the 200 points posts that are lingering there |
| 09:08:01 | Arrrr | And about incremental builds, i think araq said something recently, cannot remember if it was here or in the forum |
| 09:09:49 | FromGitter | <mratsim> Btw I think this might be important for 1.0: https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/issues/5753 |
| 09:09:51 | FromGitter | <andreaferretti> congralutions for the new release! |
| 09:13:28 | Arrrr | doAssert $(@["23", "12"]) == "@[\"23\", \"12\"]" |
| 09:13:29 | Arrrr | mmm |
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| 09:15:13 | FromGitter | <narimiran> @mratsim rust post currently has 200 points, nim post has 90 points. |
| 09:16:13 | FromGitter | <narimiran> i guess that's the reason for the current positions on HN |
| 09:17:22 | livcd | I gave it +1 just now |
| 09:17:45 | FromGitter | <mratsim> Actually I’m also surprised by the couple of post with 200 and 300 points on HN second page even though they are not evel half a day old |
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| 09:19:33 | FromGitter | <narimiran> how many comments do they have? i guess the position is function of freshness, upvotes, and comments (maybe views too)? |
| 09:20:16 | PMunch | dom96, testable documentation examples?? https://i.imgur.com/WrKPhfd.gif |
| 09:21:21 | livcd | timing is critical |
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| 09:27:58 | FromGitter | <narimiran> just reposted 0.18 announcement to /r/python, they might be interested too.... |
| 09:29:42 | FromGitter | <mratsim> I think there is a need for a “Nim promises to the Python programmer" |
| 09:30:36 | Arrrr | "Rewrite python in nim" |
| 09:30:56 | FromGitter | <Vindaar> @narimiran good idea to link to your AoC Github |
| 09:30:58 | livcd | i think reddit and hn aree US centric and it's better to do these postings when the US working hours start |
| 09:31:41 | FromGitter | <narimiran> @arrr that is *exactly* how i started with nim |
| 09:32:32 | FromGitter | <narimiran> @livcd i had some success posting at this hour, europeans upvote it, and when americans wake up, it is on the front page :D |
| 09:37:40 | FromGitter | <alehander42> @mratsim well "water on an exoplanet" is obviously a more popular headline |
| 09:37:57 | FromGitter | <alehander42> now, "intro to pen plotters" is puzzling |
| 09:37:58 | jaco60 | is there something special about the sha1 module ? |
| 09:38:10 | jaco60 | import sha1 fails |
| 09:39:18 | PMunch | Hmm, dom96 shouldn't the newline change be in 0.18 gotchas? |
| 09:40:01 | Araq | jaco60, import std / sha1 |
| 09:40:17 | Araq | new stdlib modules are in 'std' |
| 09:40:48 | jaco60 | ok, but why it's not the case for, eg, md5 ? |
| 09:41:07 | Araq | because md5 is old, not new |
| 09:41:09 | Araq | but |
| 09:41:15 | Araq | import std / md5 works too |
| 09:41:26 | jaco60 | ok, thanks |
| 09:41:30 | Araq | import std [md5, strutils, sha1] |
| 09:41:35 | Araq | import std / [md5, strutils, sha1] |
| 09:41:49 | Araq | if you want consistency, 'std' should always work |
| 09:41:56 | FromGitter | <andreaferretti> is this new style the "preferred one" now? |
| 09:43:27 | Araq | we don't know, the RFC is pending |
| 09:43:29 | Araq | :-) |
| 09:44:39 | Araq | I like it though, it makes things clean |
| 09:44:45 | Araq | import std / [...] |
| 09:44:52 | Araq | import karax / [...] |
| 09:44:59 | Zevv | Hi, I still have some warnings compling nim libs, like this: lib/nim/pure/collections/tables.nim(286, 10) Warning: Cannot prove that 'n' is initialized. This will become a compile time error in the future. [ProveInit] |
| 09:45:07 | Zevv | Is that caused by something I do? |
| 09:45:15 | FromGitter | <mratsim> not nil? |
| 09:45:16 | Araq | yes I think so |
| 09:45:27 | jaco60 | I've just read it in the "Language additions" :) |
| 09:46:05 | jaco60 | the "can" is ambiguous, then |
| 09:47:09 | Zevv | Araq: what should I look for? I'm not quite sure what the warning tries to tell me |
| 09:51:21 | FromGitter | <dom96> @narimiran no, the rust post has so many opvotes because it's been on the front page for so long. HN has demoted our post, it was either a moderator that did it or some HN algorithm |
| 09:51:33 | FromGitter | <dom96> *upvotes |
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| 09:52:57 | FromGitter | <andreaferretti> most likely it was posted in a bad moment |
| 09:53:30 | FromGitter | <andreaferretti> it was night in europe |
| 09:53:35 | FromGitter | <dom96> No. That only affects whether it gets into the front page. |
| 09:53:35 | Arrrr | More like rust has a bigger community and will receive more upboats from the start |
| 09:53:37 | FromGitter | <andreaferretti> and late afternoon in USA |
| 09:54:06 | ehmry | mozilla probably makes sure that rust gets upvotes |
| 09:54:10 | FromGitter | <dom96> I have a screenshot that shows another thread with the same number of upvotes added at the same time higher on the front page. |
| 09:54:27 | FromGitter | <andreaferretti> it also depends on page views |
| 09:54:33 | FromGitter | <andreaferretti> votes on comments |
| 09:54:38 | FromGitter | <andreaferretti> maybe something else |
| 09:54:55 | FromGitter | <andreaferretti> no need to think of a conspiracy :-) |
| 09:55:35 | FromGitter | <narimiran> @dom96 well, i guess we should retry our luck with 0.18.1 in near future :D |
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| 09:56:17 | FromGitter | <narimiran> it is a shame because from my experience, you get much bigger exposure from HN than from reddit |
| 09:56:32 | FromGitter | <andreaferretti> (experimentally I think about this time is pretty good - a post can get some points in europe and make it to front page by the time usa wakes up) |
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| 09:56:43 | FromGitter | <Varriount> @Araq @dom96 Congrats on the release! |
| 09:57:09 | Zevv | Yeah, I just noticed: congratulations! |
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| 10:00:41 | dom96 | http://hnrankings.info/16497142/ |
| 10:01:48 | dom96 | Now compared to the Rust post: http://hnrankings.info/16497142,16497701/ |
| 10:01:52 | FromGitter | <andreaferretti> defintely bad timing :-) |
| 10:02:01 | dom96 | how? |
| 10:03:18 | def- | dom96: Many points, few comments stays up MUCH longer on frontpage |
| 10:03:52 | def- | dom96: also if the same group of people vote on similar posts, vote ring will be detected |
| 10:03:56 | dom96 | It seems obvious to me that the post was suddenly demoted |
| 10:04:08 | def- | I think the cutoff is rather sharp |
| 10:04:10 | dom96 | And yes, possibly because of the vote ring algorithm |
| 10:04:23 | def- | My posts often go from 1 to 20 or off frontpage immediately |
| 10:04:31 | def- | I don't think there's an anti-nim conspiracy ;) |
| 10:05:06 | dom96 | I'm not saying that there definitely is, I'm just annoyed at the algorithm for demoting us (or possibly a moderator) |
| 10:05:37 | def- | http://hnrankings.info/16205776/ lots of comments here |
| 10:05:46 | def- | same here: http://hnrankings.info/16420271/ |
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| 10:06:53 | def- | old ones don't seem to be on hnrankings, but few comments here and stayed on top forever: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14996715 |
| 10:06:53 | dom96 | we need more articles about Nim |
| 10:07:19 | dom96 | That's interesting though, I thought comments improved the ranking |
| 10:07:26 | def- | No, anti-flamewar |
| 10:07:36 | planetis[m] | what makes you think that they don't select which posts go to the front page? |
| 10:07:56 | def- | planetis[m]: sometimes they do, but then I got messages from the HN mods |
| 10:08:12 | dom96 | yeah, moderators can definitely affect the HN front page |
| 10:08:26 | dom96 | Which is why I am always a little skeptical when a post on the front page drops down a ton |
| 10:10:55 | FromGitter | <alehander42> most of my frontpage hn posts are at night european time indeed |
| 10:11:08 | FromGitter | <alehander42> the sudden drop seems very illogical indeed |
| 10:31:41 | livcd | dom96: i have an idea about an article "How to extend ruby with Nim". Please someone write it :) |
| 10:36:35 | FromGitter | <k0pernicus> Congrats all for the new release :-) |
| 10:44:34 | PMunch | dom96, did you see my previous comment? |
| 10:47:19 | jaco60 | there's no nim-lang account on Mastodon ? |
| 10:48:26 | PMunch | Huh, never heard of Mastodon. Looks interesting |
| 10:48:51 | jaco60 | PMunch it is :) |
| 10:49:32 | ehmry | I'm still waiting for someone to make a mastodon nim library for me |
| 10:52:50 | FromGitter | <k0pernicus> @ehmry Why don't you do it yourself? :-) |
| 10:53:09 | ehmry | because I would have to learn some webshit |
| 10:53:56 | ehmry | I am willfully ignorant about how this stuff works |
| 10:54:10 | FromGitter | <k0pernicus> Always time to learn |
| 10:55:48 | FromGitter | <Vindaar> @ehmry what do you want out of a mastodon nim library? |
| 10:56:57 | ehmry | hmm, a process that watches feeds and lets me set callbacks on tags? |
| 11:04:03 | FromGitter | <Vindaar> So a nice Nim interface to the API https://github.com/tootsuite/documentation/blob/master/Using-the-API/API.md ? Sounds like a fun project for you to undertake ;) |
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| 11:11:04 | ehmry | fine, its on the todo now :) |
| 11:11:21 | FromGitter | <Vindaar> haha, nice |
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| 11:15:55 | PMunch | dom96, any possibility for a jsondoc2? |
| 11:17:07 | PMunch | Oh, wait. That already exists? |
| 11:17:27 | PMunch | Maybe that should be mentioned here: https://nim-lang.org/docs/docgen.html#document-types-json ? |
| 11:21:42 | FromGitter | <Vindaar> So I gave a rehearsal talk about my work including the data analysis I'm currently working on this morning. Had to include a couple of slides about Nim in that... Of course, main criticism was along the lines of "but you're not talking in a programming etc. session, are you?" "Well, no. But it's what I'm working on mostly lately..." Thinking to myself *but I need to advertise Nim!!!* |
| 11:23:03 | FromGitter | <Vindaar> But since @dom96 mentioned more Nim articles. It did inspire me to think about writing a few posts about "the voyage of a physicist using Nim, instead of C++ / Python" |
| 11:27:54 | PMunch | That would be very interesting to read |
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| 11:35:34 | FromGitter | <narimiran> @Vindaar do you have anything particular in mind? |
| 11:36:03 | FromGitter | <narimiran> i am planning to do some comparison between nim and python (numpy, numba) for numerical integration problems |
| 11:39:51 | FromGitter | <nc-x> @dom96 links for `Nim Backend Integration`, `Internal Documentation`, `Tools Documentation` broken at https://nim-lang.org/documentation.html |
| 11:53:04 | FromGitter | <tim-st> What would be the prefered way to have a static k:v lookup table in stdlib with more than 1000 entries (for html)? Should I use a case or a list of tuples and hope it gets optimized to a case, or should I use a Table? Should I write the table in a seperate file and include this somehow? |
| 11:56:03 | FromGitter | <tim-st> (I want to update the current implementation with a complete one without destroying the readability of the source code) |
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| 11:58:16 | PMunch | dom96, Araq: Simple documentation update to mention jsondoc2 https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/pull/7279 |
| 12:00:59 | Yardanico | Congratulations on nim 0.18.0 everyone! :) |
| 12:01:32 | FromGitter | <data-man> Oh, I've overslept everything. :) ⏎ Congrats on the new release! |
| 12:03:08 | Yardanico | well, I was sleeping and then school, I missed it too :D |
| 12:04:06 | FromGitter | <data-man> Many changes are not included to the changelog. :( |
| 12:04:51 | Yardanico | for example? |
| 12:05:27 | Yardanico | but really changelog only contains changes which are big or which break backwards compatibility |
| 12:05:45 | Yardanico | well, sorry, not only big ones |
| 12:06:39 | FromGitter | <data-man> Especially in library additions |
| 12:07:08 | Yardanico | well you missed the opportunity to add these changes to changelog :P |
| 12:07:22 | FromGitter | <mratsim> @tim-st a `case` with 1000 entries is bad style (except if you’re a game dev) ;) |
| 12:07:43 | Araq | a case with 1000 entries is optimized to a hash table |
| 12:08:31 | Araq | but might be code bloat anyway |
| 12:09:06 | Araq | try the case statment and the array of tuple[key, value: string] and see what produces smaller binaries |
| 12:11:31 | FromGitter | <tim-st> @araq ok, thanks! I already implemented support for the numeric entites now only the lookup is missing |
| 12:11:59 | FromGitter | <data-man> @Araq: You wrote me about February. February is over. ⏎ So...? |
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| 12:34:01 | FromGitter | <data-man> @mratsim @Yardanico As Arch-users, please advise me the fastest way to transfer a large number of files from disk to disk. :) |
| 12:34:20 | FromGitter | <mratsim> @data-man dd or dd_rescue |
| 12:34:31 | FromGitter | <mratsim> ah files, —> rsync |
| 12:34:53 | Yardanico | rsync, yeah :) |
| 12:36:05 | FromGitter | <data-man> Thanks! Will the file timestamps be preserved? |
| 12:36:22 | FromGitter | <mratsim> rsync —help or man rsync, there is that option ;) |
| 12:36:28 | FromGitter | <mratsim> I think it’s rsync -A |
| 12:37:29 | FromGitter | <mratsim> or I’m confusing with cp but there is the options to preserve timestamps and even ownerships |
| 12:37:38 | dom96 | why not just 'cp'? |
| 12:38:09 | FromGitter | <mratsim> It’s like asking in a Nim channel, why not just C ;) |
| 12:38:48 | FromGitter | <mratsim> you can do a mock transfer in rsync, with -N I think, and you can have a progress bar. |
| 12:40:49 | FromGitter | <data-man> I'm using the Midnight Commander. But maybe it will be faster to archive a files, and then unpack to another disk. ZPAQ very fast. |
| 12:52:16 | dom96 | Still no updates on Nim's wikipedia page |
| 12:52:21 | Yardanico | dom96, update it :P |
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| 13:04:12 | FromGitter | <Vindaar> @narimiran Nothing specific yet. I guess simply writing about the experience of switching to Nim. Highlighting the problems I encountered etc. I need to think about it :). Your idea sounds very interesting! Would be very interesting to read about numerical integration in Nim! |
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| 13:07:30 | FromGitter | <narimiran> @Vindaar i did some basic comparison (numpy vs nim) and i expected nim to be slightly faster, but this was miles ahead!! now i'm trying to set-up some meaningful example where i could compare speedups with numba vs rewritten in nim |
| 13:08:46 | federico3 | data-man: rsync -avP |
| 13:09:08 | FromGitter | <survivorm> Congrats on the new release! |
| 13:09:25 | FromGitter | <narimiran> neo library by @andreaferretti was very nice to use (but i found some ofen-used things like 'slice assignment' missing) |
| 13:09:27 | federico3 | data-man: however, rsync can't speed up a trasfer if you don't alrealdy have part of the files on the target host |
| 13:09:42 | PMunch | dom96, updated wikipedia. Strangely someone had changed the URL to point to the 0.18.0 release, but not the version number or date |
| 13:10:16 | federico3 | PMunch: looks up to date |
| 13:10:33 | PMunch | federico3, yeah I just updated it :P |
| 13:10:44 | FromGitter | <data-man> @: federico3: Big thanks! |
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| 13:22:02 | FromGitter | <RedBeard0531> Congrats on 0.18! |
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| 13:34:55 | FromGitter | <HonzsSedlomn> Hello, is there any key:value type? I know, there is Table, but i need to put there different types |
| 13:35:08 | PMunch | A tuple? |
| 13:35:48 | FromGitter | <HonzsSedlomn> Can tuple has a string keys? |
| 13:35:56 | PMunch | https://nim-lang.org/docs/tut1.html#advanced-types-tuples |
| 13:35:58 | PMunch | Sure .) |
| 13:36:11 | FromGitter | <HonzsSedlomn> Great, thanks! :) |
| 13:36:12 | PMunch | Oh, string keys.. |
| 13:36:13 | PMunch | Hmm |
| 13:36:16 | FromGitter | <HonzsSedlomn> Ah |
| 13:36:19 | PMunch | Don't think so |
| 13:36:22 | Yardanico | PMunch, well probably Honsz means dynamic container for different key:value types |
| 13:36:44 | Yardanico | HonzsSedlomn: generally in compiled languages you can't do that, only with a predefined type |
| 13:36:53 | FromGitter | <HonzsSedlomn> Something like {"key1": 1, "key2": "hello"} |
| 13:37:05 | PMunch | Well, there are two solutions |
| 13:37:13 | PMunch | You could use a JSON object from the JSON module |
| 13:37:17 | PMunch | If that fits your needs |
| 13:37:20 | FromGitter | <RedBeard0531> @HonzsSedlomn https://nim-lang.org/docs/json.html |
| 13:37:32 | FromGitter | <HonzsSedlomn> I'll give it a try. Thanks |
| 13:38:21 | Yardanico | PMunch, ah, yes |
| 13:38:24 | Yardanico | forgot about it |
| 13:38:31 | FromGitter | <RedBeard0531> Its not too hard to roll your own if you need a different set of types: https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/blob/master/lib/pure/json.nim#L595-L622 |
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| 13:39:01 | Yardanico | we need a nimble package for that :P |
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| 13:43:06 | PMunch | Yardanico, HonzsSedlomn, this is of course also an option: https://play.nim-lang.org/?gist=c19a70148feba7869d4c737bce18a230 |
| 13:43:40 | FromGitter | <narimiran> @HonzsSedlomn first you asked about key:value type, and as others have said - tuples are a way to go |
| 13:43:45 | Yardanico | PMunch, yeah, hmm, let me experiment with that :P |
| 13:45:24 | PMunch | Or if you want to make it even more transparent: https://play.nim-lang.org/?gist=953885be48351381d61ffa078fb2651b |
| 13:45:46 | PMunch | narimiran, he wanted string keys though |
| 13:45:52 | PMunch | Which doesn't work with tuples |
| 13:46:20 | PMunch | @HonzsSedlomn https://play.nim-lang.org/?gist=953885be48351381d61ffa078fb2651b |
| 13:47:25 | Yardanico | PMunch, I wanted to do the same, but you did it first |
| 13:47:29 | FromGitter | <andreaferretti> Usually in compiled languages it is more convenient to have a uniform map, and use a variant type for the value |
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| 13:47:48 | Yardanico | I'll try to do it without converters though, just curious if I can do that |
| 13:48:15 | PMunch | Yardanica, well you could overload the [] for a Table[string, myType] |
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| 13:48:26 | Yardanico | PMunch, yeah, probably this is the way |
| 13:49:05 | PMunch | Create three overloaded versions that all wrap their types properly |
| 13:49:45 | FromGitter | <survivorm> One shuld be careful with auto type conversions and operators overload. Or else that leads to cpp-like debugging hell |
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| 13:53:18 | PMunch | Uhm, what is happening here: https://play.nim-lang.org/?gist=9481703f5ce2ce4e76a446fff84208e9 |
| 13:53:28 | PMunch | Compilation log is green, but contains an error |
| 13:53:41 | PMunch | And the program creates output, but just stops before the last line.. |
| 13:54:33 | PMunch | Oh, that's what runtime errors look like in the playground? |
| 13:54:44 | PMunch | Well that's confusing :P |
| 13:57:35 | PMunch | HonzsSedlomn, you can also do this: https://play.nim-lang.org/?gist=3e60491b1607dd848d23c1a70ca04aa7 |
| 13:57:44 | PMunch | But that's really not recommended |
| 13:57:57 | PMunch | It turns the nice compile-time type checks into runtime checks |
| 13:58:18 | PMunch | So if you change any of the string, int, or bool values in the last step it will create a runtime error |
| 13:58:48 | FromGitter | <tim-st> @araq the version with [(k, v)] is nearly 200kb smaller than the case version. Should I compare runtime too or just use the smaller one? |
| 13:59:29 | Araq | well the smaller one should transfrom the pairs into a Table at runtime for fast access |
| 13:59:38 | Araq | does it do that? |
| 13:59:52 | Araq | also ensure you compare the sizes of -d:release builds |
| 14:00:21 | FromGitter | <tim-st> I only compiled release versions. I have the guess the case would have had better runtime but I can check this too |
| 14:00:44 | Araq | well the runtime is irrelevant |
| 14:00:54 | FromGitter | <tim-st> ok |
| 14:01:04 | Araq | the number of &foo; occurances in the typical HTML file is low |
| 14:01:13 | FromGitter | <tim-st> yes, I thought this too |
| 14:02:07 | FromGitter | <data-man> For a string keys also there is CritBitTree in critbits module. |
| 14:02:49 | FromGitter | <tim-st> this would probably have bigger size than case and table |
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| 14:31:16 | jaco60 | Grrr, i don't find the answer in the docs... Is it possible to pass a Range to an OpenArray or to initialise a Sequence from a Range ? For example, i want something like func badfact(n: int): int = product(1..n) (where product is imported from algorithm) |
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| 14:37:08 | jaco60 | (forget about the product of algorithm... I misunderstood its behaviour... But my question is still pending |
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| 14:52:27 | FromGitter | <stisa> jaco60: since `..` is also an iterator you can use `toSeq(1..n)` from `sequtils`, I don't know if there's anything for Range->Seq |
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| 14:54:04 | jaco60 | Perfect... |
| 15:02:30 | niv | hello. congratulations on releasing 0.18.0! who can i nag about getting the docker image updated? |
| 15:04:27 | FromGitter | <RedBeard0531> Is https://play.nim-lang.org/ still running 0.17.2? |
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| 15:07:18 | FromGitter | <zacharycarter> yes |
| 15:07:26 | FromGitter | <zacharycarter> I have to manually update it |
| 15:07:41 | FromGitter | <zacharycarter> actually I'm pretty sure it's 0.17.3 - but it could be .2 |
| 15:07:43 | FromGitter | <zacharycarter> I'll update it now |
| 15:07:54 | FromGitter | <tim-st> 👍 |
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| 15:09:33 | FromGitter | <data-man> !eval echo NimVersion |
| 15:09:36 | NimBot | 0.17.2 |
| 15:10:07 | FromGitter | <zacharycarter> well there you go! |
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| 15:17:40 | FromGitter | <zacharycarter> !eval echo NimVersion |
| 15:17:43 | NimBot | 0.17.2 |
| 15:19:29 | FromGitter | <zacharycarter> https://hub.docker.com/r/nimlang/nim/tags/ - appears to be the problem... |
| 15:22:37 | FromGitter | <zacharycarter> dom96: do you know who usually updates ^ |
| 15:22:52 | niv | i found this: https://github.com/moigagoo/nimage |
| 15:22:58 | niv | that appears to be the person building the docker iamges |
| 15:24:50 | FromGitter | <zacharycarter> hrm :/ |
| 15:25:39 | niv | i always thought the docker images were official ones, so i'm not sure what to expect here :) |
| 15:26:25 | FromGitter | <zacharycarter> I guess I make a PR and hope for the best? :P |
| 15:26:58 | niv | or maybe offer to help from the official nim maintainer side to keep them updated? |
| 15:28:54 | FromGitter | <data-man> @zacharycarter : Can you add Release mode and an additional command line parameters to Nim Playground? |
| 15:29:34 | FromGitter | <tim-st> I think my code is finished, can someone have a look at it before I will make a pr or should I just add one? (I'm new to this^^) |
| 15:29:40 | FromGitter | <zacharycarter> @data-man if you file issues on the github repo I can try to get to some of the requests for the playground in a soon(ish) manner |
| 15:30:38 | FromGitter | <brentp> @bluenote10 thanks for nim-heap module, working perfectly and easy to use! |
| 15:34:23 | FromGitter | <data-man> @zacharycarter: File issue on nim-playground or on nim-playground-frontend? |
| 15:34:38 | FromGitter | <zacharycarter> nim-playground please |
| 15:37:54 | Yardanico | Araq, lol, from reddit (nim's weaknesses): "Araq as the BDFL. He's clearly a smart man, but he rubs me (and a lot of the newer community members) the wrong way. On the other hand Andrew and Walton are fantastic." |
| 15:38:15 | Yardanico | "Andrew and Walton" seem to be D core devs |
| 15:38:22 | Yardanico | https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/819fiw/nim_0180_released/dv29app/ |
| 15:38:28 | FromGitter | <zetashift> Andrei and Walter? |
| 15:38:44 | Yardanico | IDK, he said that |
| 15:39:37 | FromGitter | <data-man> @zacharycarter: Done https://github.com/zacharycarter/nim-playground/issues/3 |
| 15:40:00 | euantor | > I personally think the STL needs serious work. |
| 15:40:15 | euantor | Interesting, would be nice if people expanded on points like this |
| 15:40:21 | Araq | Yardanico, not sure what it means |
| 15:40:24 | FromGitter | <zetashift> Well these kind of remarks are to be expected |
| 15:40:30 | FromGitter | <alehander42> maybe he thought Araq is Iraq(the country) |
| 15:40:41 | Araq | "I rub the wrong way" |
| 15:40:58 | FromGitter | <zacharycarter> @data-man thank you |
| 15:41:16 | euantor | people ask dumb questions and you give answers they don't want to hear |
| 15:41:30 | FromGitter | <andreaferretti> no, people ask questions |
| 15:41:37 | Yardanico | euantor, heh, someone even created a troll account just to make a bad comment about nim |
| 15:41:42 | Yardanico | https://www.reddit.com/user/comprehensivecheetah/comments/ |
| 15:41:57 | Yardanico | That's a good sign |
| 15:42:01 | FromGitter | <andreaferretti> sometimes questions do not make sense |
| 15:42:06 | euantor | they were similar accounts on hacker News named things like `throwaway123` |
| 15:42:23 | FromGitter | <andreaferretti> the sign of a welcoming community is showing how and why they do not make sense without being harsh or judgemental |
| 15:42:38 | euantor | sometimes the quesitons are dumb because they could have been easily answered with 1 minute of reading documentation ;) |
| 15:42:54 | FromGitter | <andreaferretti> if so, there are two options |
| 15:42:58 | FromGitter | <andreaferretti> 1 not reply |
| 15:43:12 | FromGitter | <andreaferretti> 2 reply kindly, pointing to the relevant documentation |
| 15:43:18 | euantor | then people complain that the community isn't active, or that they get ignored |
| 15:43:42 | euantor | option 2 is clearly best, but people don't always have the time to hand hold |
| 15:43:48 | FromGitter | <alehander42> we need a "please read the <keyword> docs" bot :D |
| 15:43:55 | FromGitter | <andreaferretti> this is why option1 exists :-) |
| 15:43:57 | FromGitter | <alehander42> with auto links |
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| 15:49:44 | Araq | well sorry, but "I'm getting linker errors hinting at permission problems after I went to through some hoops to make Nim run in an admin shell" triggered my troll detector. |
| 15:51:01 | Araq | especially since we had a troll who spends half of his life to come up with ways to troll #nim |
| 15:51:13 | FromGitter | <data-man> @Araq: I think that "Unofficial packages" must be moved from "Nim Standard Library" page to new place. |
| 15:52:32 | Araq | everybody is welcome here and newbie questions are welcomed too. |
| 15:52:56 | Araq | even the questions that are asked because we reply faster than Google. |
| 15:53:19 | ldlework | Really proud of you guys. |
| 15:53:21 | Yardanico | Araq, yeah, that's true |
| 15:53:32 | Yardanico | when I was learning Nim I was spamming here :D |
| 15:53:35 | FromGitter | <krux02> yes this chat is great I got a lot of great help, too |
| 15:54:48 | FromGitter | <ZarsBranchkin> By the way, I managed to compile Nim library, that can be loaded by emacs. Still cleaning up the wrapped C structs and functions |
| 15:55:01 | ldlework | what |
| 15:55:19 | FromGitter | <ZarsBranchkin> I wanted to try and see if I can extend emacs using Nim |
| 15:55:20 | ldlework | Zars can you elaborate?! |
| 15:55:45 | ldlework | That's really cool. What can you do with it? |
| 15:56:15 | FromGitter | <krux02> ldlework, I guess your main configuration is still elisp |
| 15:56:17 | FromGitter | <ZarsBranchkin> Interact with the emacs lisp interpreter, thus write regular functions that can be called from Nim |
| 15:56:27 | FromGitter | <ZarsBranchkin> *emacs |
| 15:56:31 | FromGitter | <ZarsBranchkin> called from emacs |
| 15:56:43 | ldlework | krux02, yes my emacs configuration is elisp |
| 15:56:44 | FromGitter | <krux02> I wonder if the code completion could become better/faster/less-blocking |
| 15:56:49 | FromGitter | <ZarsBranchkin> https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/elisp/Dynamic-Modules.html |
| 15:57:04 | ldlework | Zars, have you written anything on setting up emacs for Nim support? |
| 15:57:20 | ldlework | In the general sense of like autocompletion and stuff |
| 15:57:36 | FromGitter | <ZarsBranchkin> I tried contributing to nim-mode, was trying to find why company-mode autocompletion is so damn slow right now |
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| 15:57:46 | FromGitter | <krux02> ldlework: I have a magic line in elisp that does some magic, I already gave it to zars |
| 15:57:47 | ldlework | I don't remember my experience working out last time I tried |
| 15:58:09 | FromGitter | <ZarsBranchkin> Yeah, it used to work fine, but few months ago it got real slow |
| 15:58:22 | FromGitter | <ZarsBranchkin> Every character requested all completions from nimsuggest |
| 15:58:23 | ldlework | I have actually been on a year long journey to finally learn elisp and dominate emacs as an application platform rather than just an editor with some ide features. |
| 15:58:31 | FromGitter | <krux02> http://ix.io/Rpn |
| 15:59:01 | FromGitter | <ZarsBranchkin> Oh, I haven't really made any serious emacs packages, but I hack around with some existing functions etc |
| 15:59:10 | FromGitter | <mratsim> @narimiran for your benchmarks of Nim vs Numpy/Numba: don’t forget to check some of what was started in arraymancer-demos: https://github.com/edubart/arraymancer-demos |
| 15:59:18 | ldlework | Zars have you discovered Hydra yet? |
| 15:59:23 | ldlework | It changed my emacs life. |
| 16:00:12 | FromGitter | <ZarsBranchkin> oh, pretty interesting. I'm using emacs with evil though, so idk how compatible it would be |
| 16:00:13 | FromGitter | <mratsim> Also don’t benchmark Arraymancer OpenCL backend, I still did not implement autodetection so it defaults to CPU |
| 16:00:52 | FromGitter | <ZarsBranchkin> I stuck to spacemacs configuration, really love how it's managed and how well it integrates vim keybindings |
| 16:01:24 | FromGitter | <krux02> yes spacemacs is cool, but I don't use it |
| 16:01:29 | ldlework | oh.. evil mode |
| 16:01:44 | FromGitter | <krux02> not just evil mode |
| 16:01:47 | FromGitter | <ZarsBranchkin> Heh, I have contributed to spacemacs slightly, pretty fun |
| 16:01:55 | FromGitter | <krux02> spacemacs really gets some problems of emacs fixed |
| 16:02:23 | ldlework | I don't really like modal editing, so hydra is a nice comprimise for "non-navigation / core editing" features |
| 16:02:38 | ldlework | You can make little contextual (even nested) popup interfaces to self-advertise some irregularly used features |
| 16:02:48 | ldlework | I have like ~20 distinct hydras now for doing various things |
| 16:03:15 | FromGitter | <krux02> really editing is not the bottleneck. |
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| 16:03:45 | FromGitter | <krux02> nim is a very expressive language, and when something becomes too verbose I compress it with macros and so on. |
| 16:04:21 | FromGitter | <krux02> I do understand that you want all that stuff for markup like xml or latex |
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| 16:05:45 | FromGitter | <krux02> but what does help is fuzzy matching on files in the project or lines in the files when you need to find usages of identifiers. |
| 16:06:39 | FromGitter | <krux02> emacs just has way too many keyboard bindings |
| 16:06:44 | FromGitter | <krux02> and horrible ones |
| 16:07:33 | FromGitter | <data-man> There are many things that I do not like in Nim and which I would like to correct. ⏎ But I think that Andreas will be against them. :-) |
| 16:08:06 | FromGitter | <krux02> just as an example of default emacs key bindings of very useful features "C-c ! l" |
| 16:08:14 | FromGitter | <mratsim> Just open a RFC @data-man ;) |
| 16:08:41 | FromGitter | <krux02> @data-man what don't you like? |
| 16:09:48 | FromGitter | <krux02> Most of the things that I don't like get addressed. Except the inclusive upper bounds thing. |
| 16:10:30 | miran | krux02: heh, ..< to the rescue, but i agree, i would rather have that by default |
| 16:10:50 | FromGitter | <krux02> yes ..< does help |
| 16:10:58 | Araq | you need to iterate more over enums to see the point |
| 16:11:05 | FromGitter | <krux02> but the range object still has the (b) that is one off |
| 16:11:23 | FromGitter | <data-man> int64/uint64 must be ordinal types ⏎ I want to add builtin int128/uint128 type ⏎ D has wstring and dstring types. wstring especially useful for Windows and for compatibility with C++ std::wstring |
| 16:11:40 | FromGitter | <krux02> Araq: you need to iterate more over non discrete ranges to see the point |
| 16:12:02 | Araq | there is no such thing as "non discrete" in programming :P |
| 16:12:05 | FromGitter | <krux02> Araq: how wide is 0.1 .. 0.2? |
| 16:12:18 | ldlework | I actually think emacs bindings are pretty great. And in learning them you get them in anything that supports readline, nearly globally in OSX. Of course, given that they were designed when keyboards were arranged differently, you need to do a bit of keyboard remapping on any modern system just to get going. But its a small price to pay. |
| 16:12:30 | ldlework | On my emacs "C-c ! l" is undefined. |
| 16:12:32 | FromGitter | <krux02> I know floating is discrete but you think non-discrete with lossy representation |
| 16:12:53 | ldlework | And its offhanded functionality like that which makes for a great application of Hydra. |
| 16:13:02 | ldlework | Whatever C-c ! l is supposed to do.. |
| 16:13:17 | Araq | I'll say it again. Exclusive upper bounds only work when you have a sentinel value that you don't want to iterate over. |
| 16:13:22 | FromGitter | <krux02> ldlework: it is flycheck-list-errors |
| 16:13:35 | Araq | it's simply the less expressive variant. |
| 16:13:40 | ldlework | Ah I would definitely use a hydra for flycheck operations! |
| 16:14:14 | FromGitter | <krux02> you don't use flycheck? |
| 16:14:20 | Araq | and ..< is sexy anyway so I don't see the need for complaints. |
| 16:14:41 | FromGitter | <krux02> yea, I know it won't get changed. |
| 16:14:42 | ldlework | krux02, I do, but I just turn it on and use next and previous errors |
| 16:15:03 | ldlework | But I've just added a TODO in my org-mode file to create a flycheck hydra |
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| 16:15:29 | ldlework | org-capture, https://i.imgur.com/lbKs8tL.gif |
| 16:16:24 | FromGitter | <ZarsBranchkin> I should use org-capture more |
| 16:16:25 | ldlework | Here's an example of how I use hydra, https://i.imgur.com/UFsQvh5.mp4 |
| 16:16:37 | FromGitter | <ZarsBranchkin> I love org-mode, but I forget about some features sometimes |
| 16:16:45 | ipjk | ldlework: that's badger-theme, right? |
| 16:16:49 | ldlework | yes |
| 16:16:58 | ipjk | Knew I recognised it |
| 16:17:07 | ldlework | I use org-babel to call applescript blocks from elisp, and then I hook those up to nested hydra interfaces to create little automation UI's for myself |
| 16:17:13 | FromGitter | <zetashift> @Idlework off-topic but is the Workiva map related to: https://github.com/Workiva ? |
| 16:17:19 | ldlework | yeah |
| 16:17:35 | ldlework | In this case, the applescript is automating chrome using our single signon website to login to various AWS accounts |
| 16:17:36 | FromGitter | <zetashift> ah cool, I was just checking their over_react lib then I saw this screenshot haha |
| 16:18:24 | FromGitter | <krux02> I wrote a shell script that did the same as org capture, just it was before my emacs age and it was called log |
| 16:18:33 | ldlework | org-capture is amazing |
| 16:18:38 | FromGitter | <krux02> and it put the stuff in my log.md |
| 16:18:40 | ldlework | I have tons more templates since that video was taken |
| 16:19:04 | ldlework | I can remember books, movies, make notes about irc people, capture jira tickets, remember software packages, and many other things |
| 16:19:17 | ldlework | and each thing gets filed away into the correct place in the correct format |
| 16:19:38 | ldlework | some just remember the time like in the video, some create TODO's, some fetch some data from like Amazon to get book information like author and ISBN and so on |
| 16:19:50 | ldlework | org is one of the most valuable software packages ever made imo |
| 16:20:20 | ldlework | Its why I'm glad evil mode exists, even though I don't like modal editing |
| 16:20:29 | ldlework | Because it is a path for vim people to the glory of org-mode |
| 16:20:54 | ipjk | My top reason for using emacs, is it's super in-editor help |
| 16:21:25 | ipjk | I doubt I have any use for org. |
| 16:21:37 | ldlework | If you like to remember things, org is for you |
| 16:22:16 | FromGitter | <zetashift> there is a (probably subpar) org-mode for vscode too |
| 16:22:17 | FromGitter | <ZarsBranchkin> I mostly use org-mode for writing school papers and export to latex |
| 16:22:25 | ipjk | Such things are usually on the fly, where I write such down on the phone. |
| 16:22:25 | FromGitter | <data-man> @krux02: http://glad.dav1d.de supports Nim. Have you tried the generated OpenGL code from there? |
| 16:22:43 | ldlework | zetashift, most people conceptualize org-mode as a thing that lets you do tree-like documents, todos, and maybe tables |
| 16:22:46 | FromGitter | <zetashift> there is an org-mode for android too :P |
| 16:22:48 | ldlework | Its far far more than that. |
| 16:22:52 | ldlework | Its an aggregation engine. |
| 16:23:12 | ldlework | the org-tools for android I think are really just minor clients. Orgzly is nice to have. |
| 16:23:23 | FromGitter | <zetashift> I'm a basic spacemacs user, I don't have time to enjoy the glory of org-mode yet :( |
| 16:23:35 | FromGitter | <ZarsBranchkin> Yeah, orgzly is pretty useful |
| 16:23:43 | ldlework | Yeah I've had to put concerted efforts to adopt it |
| 16:23:46 | ipjk | spacemacs is the preconfigured with evil, right? |
| 16:23:48 | ldlework | And its been a several months now. |
| 16:23:50 | FromGitter | <ZarsBranchkin> Heh yeah, emacs is too overwhelming with all the cool things it has |
| 16:23:50 | ldlework | Yeah. |
| 16:24:04 | FromGitter | <krux02> @data-man no I did not know that. that really sounds very interesting |
| 16:24:06 | FromGitter | <ZarsBranchkin> Spacemacs has emacs and hybrid bindings too |
| 16:24:10 | FromGitter | <krux02> I will have to try it |
| 16:24:19 | ldlework | Its easier to conceptualize emacs as an TUI application platform, rather than a text editor with too many other things. |
| 16:24:38 | ldlework | It has windows, which view buffers of text, each of which has an active major mode which maps keyboard input to arbitrary elisp functions. |
| 16:24:59 | ldlework | From that you can build a text editor sure, but also feed readers, mail clients, irc clients, finance tracking tools and so on |
| 16:25:30 | ldlework | you can even build vim on that framework :) |
| 16:25:44 | FromGitter | <krux02> ipjk: you can choose to have evil. But when you first start it asks you if you want evil or not |
| 16:25:49 | Araq | well yes Emacs is a great OS with a mediocre editor |
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| 16:26:02 | Araq | but this should be in #nim-offtopic ;-) |
| 16:26:23 | ldlework | Araq but it has vim now! ;) |
| 16:26:24 | ldlework | Sorry! |
| 16:27:31 | FromGitter | <krux02> there is still #emacs |
| 16:27:44 | FromGitter | <krux02> you can talk all day there about emacs |
| 16:27:46 | FromGitter | <krux02> but I have to go |
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| 17:02:15 | GitDisc | <spaceghost> I can write an article on Ruby extensions with Nim. It's really easy with the nim and ruby FFIs, so there's space for more than just how to call nim from ruby and vice versa. |
| 17:03:52 | GitDisc | <spaceghost> I'm working on a fork of muon that doesn't include nodejs as well. |
| 17:05:13 | Araq | oh |
| 17:05:30 | Araq | we didn't mention that 0.18 also has better error messages ... |
| 17:07:54 | Yardanico | Araq, :D |
| 17:08:02 | GitDisc | <spaceghost> Changelogs are for chumps. |
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| 17:12:58 | GaveUp | :q |
| 17:13:04 | GaveUp | oops |
| 17:17:13 | jaco60 | Another newbie question: what is the point of openArray ? Why not using a seq instead ? |
| 17:18:27 | miran | jaco60: openarrays can be arrays too |
| 17:18:39 | jaco60 | so ? |
| 17:22:12 | dom96 | openarrays can be arrays of any size or a seq |
| 17:22:31 | GitDisc | <sion> Hmm, I can see the runnableExamples in the doc output, but they don't seem to run for me. |
| 17:22:38 | jaco60 | yes, i've read that... but i still don't see the point... |
| 17:23:15 | GitDisc | <sion> I didn't see anything in docgen.nim that would run them, but I may be missing something. |
| 17:23:34 | dom96 | jaco60: it is a bit of a relic of Nim's past |
| 17:23:57 | dom96 | Still useful if you want to create a generic procedure taking either an array or a seq thoug |
| 17:23:58 | dom96 | h |
| 17:24:14 | dom96 | sion: what's your code? |
| 17:24:44 | dom96 | the examples are compiled and ran when you executed ``nim doc yourfile.nim` |
| 17:24:58 | FromGitter | <tim-st> When I try to compile (test) my changes in stdlib file `htmlparser.nim` I get this: `Error: module names need to be unique per Nimble package; module clashes with sameFolder\strutils.nim` how can I prevent this? |
| 17:28:41 | FromGitter | <data-man> nim ctags also missed. I need more feedback. If this feature is not needed by anyone, then it is better to remove it. |
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| 17:32:40 | GitDisc | <sion> Ahh. I tried a simpler example and it worked. I'll open a bug once I narrow it down a bit. |
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| 17:34:56 | GitDisc | <sion> Just making the function generic did it. |
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| 17:39:03 | FromGitter | <tim-st> I could solve the problem. When I used another shell it worked without problems |
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| 18:27:56 | FromGitter | <mratsim> @jaco60, arrays are allocated on the stack, seq on the heap. Heap allocation is slower than the stack |
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| 18:30:04 | max3 | how does compilation to webasm work if nim has GC? |
| 18:31:03 | max3 | also the site seems to be down: https://nim-lang.org/docs/backends.html |
| 18:31:47 | FromGitter | <mratsim> You can choose not to use the GC by avoiding seq and strings |
| 18:32:38 | FromGitter | <mratsim> or since Nim GC is written in Nim, it can also be compiled to wasm |
| 18:33:20 | FromGitter | <mratsim> THose projects compiles to wasm or asm.js via emscripten: https://github.com/zacharycarter/zengine and https://github.com/def-/nimes |
| 18:33:56 | max3 | mratsim: is that really the only place GC is used? |
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| 18:37:26 | FromGitter | <mratsim> ref objects, seq and strings use GC, anything else don't |
| 18:37:46 | FromGitter | <mratsim> object, array, int, tuple, ptr, etc do not use the GC |
| 18:38:44 | FromGitter | <mratsim> Also you can control it, see here: https://nim-lang.org/docs/gc.html |
| 18:38:56 | miran | wow, had no idea about that! |
| 18:39:14 | Araq | max3, most common is the solution that compiles Nim plus its GC to emscripten/asm.js |
| 18:39:28 | FromGitter | <mratsim> or change the implementation use with —gc:none, —gc:stack (the stack is your GC), —gc:boehm, —gc:markandsweep (java-like) |
| 18:39:47 | max3 | Araq: i guess my concern is how performant that is? |
| 18:39:50 | jaco60 | @mratsim: thanks... I have yet to figure how to pass a seq to an openArray, then... |
| 18:40:04 | FromGitter | <mratsim> @jaco60, normally it’s transparent |
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| 18:40:18 | max3 | jaco60: does an @ here dm on gitter? |
| 18:40:51 | max3 | Araq: especially since i'm compiling to asm.js rather than webasm (yes i know they're close but still) |
| 18:40:51 | Araq | max3, haven't benchmarked it but the overhead of asm.js is a factor of 2 for native code afaik |
| 18:40:57 | jaco60 | @max3 sorry? |
| 18:41:30 | Araq | the GC is not special here, it's "native" code that is affected by the general asm.js slowdowns |
| 18:41:36 | max3 | jaco60: you're on IRC, mratsim is on gitter. did you @ him becaus the bridge bot notifies mratsim on gitter |
| 18:42:14 | jaco60 | @max3: i've just tried to thank him :) |
| 18:42:17 | FromGitter | <mratsim> @jaco60: https://play.nim-lang.org/?gist=5ee04c2c7cec240d1c2b25ab33f0cd35 |
| 18:42:54 | dom96 | max3: It's fast enough for Reel Valley: https://apps.facebook.com/reelvalley |
| 18:44:22 | max3 | dom96: is this entire thing written in nim...? |
| 18:44:27 | dom96 | yep |
| 18:44:30 | jaco60 | @mratsim : i wrote that... Replacing seq by openArray in permutations arguments doesn't work well :) https://play.nim-lang.org/?gist=5ee04c2c7cec240d1c2b25ab33f0cd35 |
| 18:44:49 | dom96 | yglukhov can give more details |
| 18:44:53 | dom96 | not sure if he's around though |
| 18:45:12 | max3 | also how the hell do i now remove permission from this game |
| 18:46:31 | yglukhov | hey guys whats up |
| 18:46:39 | max3 | yglukhov: how much of reel valley is written in nim? |
| 18:46:59 | FromGitter | <mratsim> Yes he is around: https://yglukhov.github.io/Making-ReelValley-Overview/ |
| 18:47:07 | yglukhov | max3: almost all of it |
| 18:47:21 | max3 | yglukhov: is there a nim game engine...? |
| 18:47:35 | max3 | oh lol rod |
| 18:47:36 | max3 | your engine |
| 18:48:18 | yglukhov | there's about 600loc java code for android, and around the same js code for emscripten. but that could also be rewritten in nim ;) |
| 18:49:01 | yglukhov | there's also sdl2 still... |
| 18:49:08 | max3 | yglukhov: compiles to asm.js or webasm |
| 18:49:10 | max3 | ? |
| 18:49:11 | yglukhov | other than that its nim |
| 18:49:57 | yglukhov | both. but we've found wasm crash reports pretty unfriendly, so wasm is not public currently |
| 18:50:09 | miran | yglukhov: you should edit/write your 'about' page :) (https://yglukhov.github.io/about/) |
| 18:50:39 | yglukhov | yeah, maybe... =) |
| 18:52:28 | max3 | yglukhov: русский? |
| 18:52:47 | yglukhov | max3: в том числе =) |
| 18:54:04 | max3 | откуда? |
| 18:54:11 | max3 | whoops yglukhov: откуда |
| 18:54:51 | miran | otkuda? where from? :) |
| 18:55:06 | yglukhov | max3: Kyiv |
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| 19:02:33 | max3 | круто. я из Кишинева. anyway cool project |
| 19:03:45 | Araq | Я понимаю, что |
| 19:03:46 | yglukhov | max3: Thanks, and nice to meet you. Please tend to use english though, or pm ;) |
| 19:04:28 | max3 | no problem - i don't get much opportunity to stretch my tongue (live in the US). |
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| 19:24:19 | jaco60 | Hum, wrong url... I wrote that... If i replace seq with openArray in permutations signature, winter is coming... https://gist.github.com/anonymous/3e2fe1aa8f3f0cdccebbae2aa4ef12d7 |
| 19:29:56 | planetis[m] | hackernews is bullshit.. Seriously "Burning Out: What Really Happens Inside a Crematorium" who wants to read this? |
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| 19:39:29 | GitDisc | <spaceghost> You mean you don't think of HN as free internet points for people who like that sort of thing? |
| 19:41:09 | dom96 | planetis[m]: That sounds interesting to me :P |
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| 19:45:07 | planetis[m] | spaceghost: I don't mind what people like to do. But I think the way post appear in frontpage is biased and not following any aalgorithm |
| 19:45:16 | planetis[m] | same for imgur |
| 19:46:00 | planetis[m] | dom96: okay lol |
| 19:58:15 | Araq | dom96, we need to reset the changelog.md, right? |
| 19:59:07 | dom96 | yes, just add a new version heading |
| 19:59:10 | dom96 | and the same sub-sections |
| 19:59:30 | Araq | well tell that to zahary, he touched the file in a PR |
| 19:59:32 | dom96 | and make sure people put their changes in the right one, I don't want to go through them all again and sort them because they're all under "Changes affecting backwards compat" |
| 19:59:55 | dom96 | we should do it after each release really |
| 20:00:31 | dom96 | but yeah, I'll let him know |
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| 20:56:06 | FromGitter | <stisa> jaco60: like this https://play.nim-lang.org/?gist=3f79967a22f983f7d4747c45287a6b12 ? |
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| 20:58:27 | jaco60 | Yes, i've finally found that i had to use @ to convert the openArray to a vect :) |
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| 21:44:59 | deech | Hi all, I really like Nim's GC over D's but I'm also a big fan of D's introspection capabilities (the Allocator API, for example, https://dlang.org/phobos/std_experimental_allocator.html). It isn't clear to me from the manual how Nim compares here. Is there an article or forum post you can refer me to? |
| 21:45:46 | deech | Please note, I'm not asking about macros vs. mixins, just static introspection. |
| 21:51:03 | deech | I have already read the typetraits module (https://nim-lang.org/docs/typetraits.html). |
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| 22:11:10 | jubalh | hi |
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| 22:15:56 | Araq | deech, well it's hard to answer your question. |
| 22:16:27 | dom96 | hey jubalh! |
| 22:17:01 | Araq | in general you can use macros to do introspection... |
| 22:17:13 | Araq | but I got the feeling I shouldn't use the word "macro" :-) |
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| 22:20:18 | jubalh | Guys, I could use some help |
| 22:20:37 | jubalh | Trying to update the spec file for nim. I get the following error when building: https://build.opensuse.org/package/live_build_log/home:jubalh:branches:devel:languages:misc/nim/openSUSE_Tumbleweed/x86_64 |
| 22:20:56 | jubalh | spec file with instructions how it is built can be seen here: https://build.opensuse.org/package/view_file/home:jubalh:branches:devel:languages:misc/nim/nim.spec?expand=1 |
| 22:21:01 | jubalh | maybe you spot what is going from? |
| 22:21:52 | jubalh | '_code/2_2/stdlib_os.c:7:10: fatal error: nimbase.h: No such file or directory' but nimbase is in lib and c_code subfolders |
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| 22:22:31 | deech | Araq: Maybe a concrete example would help, in D there is a library that checking integer overflows that uses a kind of static hook design. How easy would that be to port to Nim? |
| 22:24:00 | Araq | jubalh, https://github.com/nim-lang/csources/blob/master/c_code/nimbase.h somehow this file needs to be picked up |
| 22:24:12 | deech | Araq: Forgot the link https://dlang.org/phobos/std_experimental_checkedint.html. |
| 22:24:38 | jubalh | Araq: sorry what do you mean by somehow picked? |
| 22:24:51 | jubalh | I downloaded the official tarball, and the file is in the c_code and lib subfolders |
| 22:24:59 | jubalh | so i am not sure why the build scripts dont work |
| 22:25:13 | Araq | https://github.com/nim-lang/csources/blob/master/build.sh#L206 |
| 22:25:26 | Araq | note the -Ic_code part |
| 22:26:16 | jubalh | it means to include the c_code subfolder, right? |
| 22:26:25 | jubalh | so i think all this _should_ work? |
| 22:26:38 | Araq | yeah... |
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| 22:27:09 | jubalh | so why doesnt it? :) |
| 22:27:14 | Araq | deech, it's tough to directly translate these things, the idiomatic Nim solution looks quite different |
| 22:27:26 | Araq | for example |
| 22:27:35 | jubalh | Araq: did you take a look at the spec file? I suppose you guys build it the same way |
| 22:29:36 | jubalh | oh build.sh is not run |
| 22:29:38 | Araq | checked(RaiseOnOverflow): |
| 22:29:43 | Araq | echo a + b * c |
| 22:29:43 | jubalh | probably this is new in 0.18.0 |
| 22:30:37 | Araq | well I don't really understand .spec files but |
| 22:30:39 | Araq | cc -fmessage-length=0 -grecord-gcc-switches -O2 -Wall -D_FORTIFY_SOURCE=2 -fstack-protector-strong -funwind-tables -fasynchronous-unwind-tables -fstack-clash-protection -c -o c_code/2_2/stdlib_math.o c_code/2_2/stdlib_math.c |
| 22:31:08 | Araq | is not something my compiler produces, my compiler includes -Ic_code so that nimbase.h can be found |
| 22:31:22 | jubalh | Araq: basically from the %build section onwards stuff should be more or less readable for you. there it can be seen what we run |
| 22:31:42 | jubalh | so we run make, is that needed? |
| 22:31:57 | jubalh | and after make we do: ./bin/nim c $NIMFLAGS koch |
| 22:32:08 | jubalh | only then ./koch boot -d:release $NIMFLAGS \ |
| 22:32:09 | jubalh | -d:useGnuReadline |
| 22:32:15 | jubalh | and then the tools |
| 22:32:16 | Araq | I never run make. |
| 22:32:42 | Araq | and I dunno what |
| 22:32:43 | Araq | export NIMFLAGS="$(echo '%{optflags}' | sed 's/\([^[:space:]]\+\)/--passC:\1/g')" |
| 22:32:43 | Araq | export NIMFLAGS="$NIMFLAGS %{?jobs:--parallelBuild:%{jobs}}" |
| 22:32:54 | Araq | does. nor do I want to know. |
| 22:33:08 | jubalh | :) |
| 22:33:16 | jubalh | ok with adding of build.sh it now builds |
| 22:33:21 | jubalh | maybe i should remove the make |
| 22:33:26 | jubalh | thanks |
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| 22:34:45 | Araq | jubalh, IMO you should start a new .spec file from scratch |
| 22:35:03 | Araq | and when your .spec file uses 'sed', restart |
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| 22:36:17 | Araq | for example |
| 22:37:03 | Araq | it calls 'koch install' which is deprecated for a while |
| 22:37:17 | Araq | it's now 'koch distrohelper' |
| 22:37:42 | Araq | and then it seems to ignore the output of koch and does |
| 22:37:52 | jubalh | can i see somehwhere which koch calls changed from 0.17.2 to 0.18.0? |
| 22:37:56 | Araq | ls ./bin | while read f; do |
| 22:37:56 | Araq | install -Dpm 0755 "./bin/$f" "%{buildroot}%{_libdir}/nim/bin/$f" |
| 22:37:56 | Araq | ln -s "%{_libdir}/nim/bin/$f" "%{buildroot}%{_bindir}/$f" |
| 22:38:35 | Araq | maybe that is correct/better for Suse |
| 22:38:58 | Araq | but it's undocumented and nobody knows if the author knows better than 'koch' or was drunk |
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| 22:39:28 | jubalh | hmm btw gentoo also uses koch install: https://github.com/gentoo/gentoo/commit/5f5b8085f0b8bdf8effa00e2f773fb1fa1e2377b |
| 22:40:31 | Araq | of "distrohelper": geninstall() |
| 22:40:31 | Araq | of "install": install(op.cmdLineRest) |
| 22:40:46 | Araq | we have 'distrohelper' to help create Linux packages |
| 22:41:19 | Araq | so 'install' is not even an alias |
| 22:41:44 | jubalh | funny that two distros i checked are not aware of that |
| 22:43:13 | jubalh | Araq: can you point me to the docu of these koch commands? |
| 22:43:18 | jubalh | so i can fix things up? |
| 22:44:09 | Araq | don't have any, sorry. :-) |
| 22:44:23 | Araq | " distrohelper [bindir] helper for distro packagers" |
| 22:44:41 | Araq | just run it, see the .sh files it produces |
| 22:45:27 | jubalh | hmm, so can you please list me the actual commands that one should use to build and install? |
| 22:47:19 | Araq | ./koch distrohelper |
| 22:47:26 | Araq | produces install.sh |
| 22:48:54 | jubalh | so: ./build.sh ./koch distrohelper ./install.sh |
| 22:49:13 | Araq | well it depends. more like |
| 22:49:18 | Araq | ./build.sh |
| 22:49:26 | Araq | bin/nim c koch |
| 22:49:31 | Araq | ./koch distrohelper |
| 22:49:35 | Araq | ./install.sh |
| 22:50:00 | Araq | but this install.sh is only for you package creators |
| 22:50:35 | jubalh | because? |
| 22:53:49 | Araq | because we don't want people to manually sudo distribute crap into /usr/bin |
| 22:54:20 | Araq | that's the job of the Linux package manager |
| 22:57:22 | Araq | iirc you run the install.sh in a virtual environment to extract the instructions for the package? not sure how this works |
| 22:57:47 | GitDisc | <spaceghost> You mean /usr/local/bin and they don't manage their $PATHs well and stuff? |
| 22:58:37 | Araq | no I mean, they have trouble to update nim and have old versions lying around |
| 22:59:28 | Araq | plus the deinstall.sh script needs to be written by the install script so it can deinstall but then nobody knows where to put it |
| 23:19:10 | FromGitter | <mratsim> All distros track files installed though, what would the deinstall.sh do beyond that? Some bash_profile/env variable? |
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| 23:26:36 | Zevv | It seems that the seach box in the online nim documentation is broken? |
| 23:26:44 | Zevv | The 'nim manual' search works |
| 23:27:02 | Zevv | but most other pages do not show results when typing in the search box |
| 23:27:40 | Zevv | javascript errors like 'TypeError: value_28192 is undefined' instead |
| 23:27:51 | Zevv | dohack.js:1448 |
| 23:36:22 | Araq | Zevv, ouch :-( |
| 23:37:55 | Araq | mratsim: as I said, where to put the deinstall.sh script? |
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