<< 02-09-2023 >>
00:00:00FromDiscord<sOkam! 🫐> that's why i was searching for a execShellCmd alternative
00:00:18FromDiscord<sOkam! 🫐> In reply to @jviega "Yeah but doing sh": i couldn't find an alternative
00:00:28FromDiscord<sOkam! 🫐> thought i needed the sh -c
00:00:43FromDiscord<sOkam! 🫐> (edit) "-c" => "-c, becasue staticExec is just running the command like execCmd"
00:00:48FromDiscord<jviega> No, I don't know much about the javascript runtime, but I think it's semi-sandboxed
00:01:18FromDiscord<jviega> Certainly nobody's made functions like that available anyway, not that I've been able to fin
00:01:18FromDiscord<sOkam! 🫐> so it would need support from the VM itself to be output normally, i understand?
00:01:19FromDiscord<jviega> find
00:01:24FromDiscord<jviega> 100%
00:01:32FromDiscord<sOkam! 🫐> well, crap 😦
00:01:49FromDiscord<jviega> There's no way I have ever been able to find to pass stdin down to a subprocess from nimscript
00:02:02FromDiscord<jviega> Or stdout/stderr
00:03:36FromDiscord<sOkam! 🫐> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=4F9f
00:03:46FromDiscord<sOkam! 🫐> that's without the sh -c
00:03:55FromDiscord<jviega> try staticExec()
00:03:58FromDiscord<jviega> It is what I use
00:04:12FromDiscord<sOkam! 🫐> docs say its an alias, but let me double check
00:04:22FromDiscord<jviega> Isn't it chdir on windows?
00:04:51FromDiscord<jviega> It says "cd not found" not "can't run a shell command"
00:05:02FromDiscord<sOkam! 🫐> i have no clue
00:05:16FromDiscord<sOkam! 🫐> cd is working for me on powershell
00:05:33FromDiscord<jviega> Maybe it doesn't use powershell, but the old cmd.exe
00:05:33FromDiscord<sOkam! 🫐> yeah it works
00:05:38FromDiscord<jviega> 🤷‍♂️
00:06:04FromDiscord<sOkam! 🫐> no it works
00:06:07FromDiscord<sOkam! 🫐> (edit) "no" => "no,"
00:06:12FromDiscord<sOkam! 🫐> cd works on cmd too
00:06:40FromDiscord<sOkam! 🫐> maybe i didn't --recurse-submodules, like an dummy. that would check out
00:07:05FromDiscord<jviega> heh
00:32:46FromDiscord<Chronos [She/Her]> Do y'all think that I should set Zig to be the default for compiling Nim?
00:34:33FromDiscord<jviega> What's the advantage?
00:35:55FromDiscord<sOkam! 🫐> In reply to @jviega "What's the advantage?": cross-compilation out of the box, no extra setup
00:36:09FromDiscord<sOkam! 🫐> no installing 3 different compilers
00:36:47FromDiscord<sOkam! 🫐> the benefit is clearer for C and C++, but its still really good for nim
00:37:14FromDiscord<jviega> Ah. Clang doesn't cross-compile everywhere?? I really don't do Windows, and most of the world just fire off multiple native builders 🙂
00:37:18FromDiscord<Chronos [She/Her]> Yeah, easy as hell crosscompilation is a big one
00:37:27FromDiscord<Chronos [She/Her]> In reply to @jviega "Ah. Clang doesn't cross-compile": It's a lot more painful than Zig makes it
00:38:20FromDiscord<jviega> Sure
00:38:39FromDiscord<sOkam! 🫐> honestly, zigcc is what a modern compiler should look like, imo
00:38:43FromDiscord<Chronos [She/Her]> Also doesn't Zig also have incremental compilation
00:38:59FromDiscord<sOkam! 🫐> yeah it does, but i don't think it can be made to work with nim, since it already has it
00:39:14FromDiscord<sOkam! 🫐> for C, yes it does. and also dependency resolution, so no need for -MMD and friends
00:39:34FromDiscord<jviega> That's true for basically every important C compiler
00:39:35FromDiscord<Chronos [She/Her]> Nim doesn't have incremental compilation?
00:39:50FromDiscord<Chronos [She/Her]> Ah, Clang has that too? Nvm
00:40:39FromDiscord<jviega> Clang is by far the premier platform for compilers these days.
00:40:50FromDiscord<jviega> It's got a deep, rich ecosystem
00:41:32FromDiscord<Chronos [She/Her]> Zig cc actually just uses clang and adds some features to it
00:42:20FromDiscord<jviega> That's what I would have guessed
00:42:25FromDiscord<Chronos [She/Her]> I wonder if there's any point to using the `mold` linker too hm
00:43:53FromDiscord<sOkam! 🫐> In reply to @jviega "That's true for basically": then maybe i dealt with outdated AF buildsystems that allow for special flags for each separate file (like they require most times)
00:44:08FromDiscord<sOkam! 🫐> but what I found on gcc it definitely does not seem like it supports that
00:44:19FromDiscord<Chronos [She/Her]> It won't really benefit Nim itself much since that's what slows it down, but large Nim projects that generate large C outputs may benefit
00:44:21FromDiscord<sOkam! 🫐> if clang does, then I don't know about it
00:44:24FromDiscord<Chronos [She/Her]> Hm....
00:45:36FromDiscord<jviega> gcc is an old tire fire
00:45:38FromDiscord<Chronos [She/Her]> Only doing this out of boredom too lol
00:46:16FromDiscord<jviega> It used to have a great optimizer, but it became a really unmaintainable behemoth close to 30 years ago
00:47:27FromDiscord<sOkam! 🫐> i figure it happens with all huge programs 🤷‍♂️
00:47:39FromDiscord<jviega> Not even remotely
00:47:41FromDiscord<sOkam! 🫐> wouldn't surprise me if clang isn't, or doesn't become, like that
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00:49:13FromDiscord<jviega> No, they made a very conscious choice to make the compiler as monolithic as possible, because they didn't want commercial analysis tools to profit from their "free" software; people were starting to just rip out the front end, output to a file, and circumvent the gpl quite easily
00:51:26FromDiscord<sOkam! 🫐> oh i see
00:54:24FromDiscord<Chronos [She/Her]> I am using `mold` and `zigcc` for building now :)
01:23:43FromDiscord<sOkam! 🫐> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=4F9m
01:24:37FromDiscord<Chronos [She/Her]> Yeah haha
01:25:57FromDiscord<sOkam! 🫐> personally, one of the things I like the most about zigcc is how easy it makes the ux of building a buildsystem, because its so self-contained and good to work with with its defaults↵if it wasn't like that, I would definitely give it a serious try
01:26:20FromDiscord<sOkam! 🫐> i'm just beyond sick of maintaining over-complicated buildsystems. I had enough of them for the rest of my years
01:27:14FromDiscord<michaelb.eth> isn't zig cc going away? or maybe I misunderstood, but there was that GitHub issue where the maintainer of the lang said they're moving away from LLVM and I thought I remember reading that would mean zig cc would become a thing of the past
01:27:27FromDiscord<sOkam! 🫐> for nim its probably a lot easier to implement, just depend on that `zigcc` package, and send the nimc command with mold as a linker, i imagine
01:27:41FromDiscord<sOkam! 🫐> In reply to @michaelb.eth "isn't zig cc going": that's different completely
01:28:23FromDiscord<sOkam! 🫐> they are moving away from llvm -over-the-years- as they can slowly do so↵and they are comitting to maintaining zigcc as a separate package just like right now, so not abandoning it
01:29:01FromDiscord<sOkam! 🫐> andrew had to clarify a LOT, because that post created a lot of nonsense rumours on the webs
01:30:51FromDiscord<michaelb.eth> gotcha, thanks for your clarification here 😄
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01:35:40FromDiscord<Chronos [She/Her]> In reply to @heysokam "for nim its probably": I just added it into the system wide config.nims lol
01:36:05FromDiscord<Chronos [She/Her]> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=4F9n
01:36:15FromDiscord<Chronos [She/Her]> I would also set the default for clang++ but idk how to so that on the command line
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02:28:51FromDiscord<bhunao> Hi, how do i create a table that my keys are a type that i still don't have?
02:29:48FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> What?
02:30:03FromDiscord<odexine> that -> where
02:31:29FromDiscord<bhunao> i want to do something like this↵↵proc my_func(component) =↵ my_table[component.type] = 1
02:31:42FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> You cannot do that
02:31:58FromDiscord<bhunao> oh
02:32:01FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Nim types are not runtime values they're static
02:32:24FromDiscord<bhunao> i guess i'm a little more lost now
02:32:35FromDiscord<bhunao> anyway i can do something like that?
02:32:46FromDiscord<bhunao> with some other type
02:32:59FromDiscord<bhunao> or i always need to know the types?
02:33:03FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Convert to a string, use some runtime id system
02:33:24FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> You want to type erase key of the table
02:33:40FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> So they have to all be the same type you can do like `myTable[$theType] = 1`
02:34:06FromDiscord<bhunao> what is a runtime id system?
02:34:19FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Some system that converts a type to an id
02:34:41FromDiscord<bhunao> i guess is this what im trying to do already then
02:34:48FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> IIRC we talked about ECS before and I suggested using `getTypeInfo` which is one way of doing this GUID per type
02:35:11FromDiscord<bhunao> lol, i'm trying to do an ECS
02:35:23FromDiscord<Chronos [She/Her]> ULID doesn't work as GUID in my chat platform TwT
02:35:36FromDiscord<Chronos [She/Her]> But don't really know how to modify it to make it work better-
02:35:56FromDiscord<odexine> why not?
02:36:38FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Like I said last time bhunao `getTypeInfo` returns a `pointer` to type information, that pointer is already unique per type
02:36:45FromDiscord<bhunao> In reply to @Elegantbeef "Convert to a string,": gonna try it
02:37:11FromDiscord<bhunao> In reply to @Elegantbeef "Like I said last": then i set the table type as pointer?
02:37:26FromDiscord<bhunao> never used a pointer, i came from python
02:37:31FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Yea `Table[pointer, int]` would wrok fine
02:37:40FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> You arent using the pointer as a pointer, you're using it as an integer really
02:38:25FromDiscord<Chronos [She/Her]> In reply to @odexine "why not?": If there's a ton of instances, over time IDs will definitely start clashing
02:38:35FromDiscord<Chronos [She/Her]> It's not a problem right now, but in the future it would be
02:39:17FromDiscord<Chronos [She/Her]> Tho one solution is to use MAC addresses
02:39:43FromDiscord<bhunao> In reply to @Elegantbeef "Yea `Table[pointer, int]` would": it worked, i think at least no errors
02:39:50FromDiscord<bhunao> (edit) "think" => "think,"
02:41:45FromDiscord<sOkam! 🫐> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=4F9v
02:42:05FromDiscord<sOkam! 🫐> just configure them globally instead of per-project, and you should be good
02:44:52FromDiscord<odexine> In reply to @chronos.vitaqua "If there's a ton": does it happen practically?
02:45:06FromDiscord<Chronos [She/Her]> In reply to @heysokam "just configure them globally": I already am lol
02:45:09FromDiscord<Chronos [She/Her]> In reply to @odexine "does it happen practically?": Wdym?
02:45:29FromDiscord<Chronos [She/Her]> I mean obviously it probably won't happen any time soon, but my mind just can't stay off those edge-cases
02:50:37FromDiscord<Chronos [She/Her]> Any unique value on each system that I can grab? Mac address is one but doesn't seem to be an easy way to grab that in Nim
02:53:04FromDiscord<odexine> is it useful to think about something that will practically never happen
02:53:25NimEventerNew post on r/nim by Impossible-Thanks408: Why to Learn Nim?, see https://reddit.com/r/nim/comments/167qzdl/why_to_learn_nim/
02:53:39FromDiscord<odexine> if it practically never happens, instead of redesigning the whole system to remove the edge cases, wouldn't it be better to handle those edge cases exceptionally?
02:53:54FromDiscord<odexine> it would save time and effort
02:55:10FromDiscord<Chronos [She/Her]> In reply to @odexine "if it practically never": One issue where it wouldn't be possible to solve it though, is users
02:55:24FromDiscord<Chronos [She/Her]> Users are the only location where this matters and why we can't stop thinking about it
02:55:24FromDiscord<odexine> solve isnt handle
02:55:31FromDiscord<odexine> rather backwards, handle isnt solve
02:55:47FromDiscord<Chronos [She/Her]> In reply to @odexine "is it useful to": Blame obsessive brain
02:55:52FromDiscord<odexine> again does it practically matter, will it happen commonly enough to be a real problem
02:55:59FromDiscord<Chronos [She/Her]> In reply to @odexine "solve isnt handle": Wouldn't be able to handle this either
02:56:10FromDiscord<odexine> why not? erroring out gracefully is handling
02:56:17FromDiscord<Chronos [She/Her]> In reply to @odexine "again does it practically": Probably not but having design flaws in a system is just, annoying
02:56:24FromDiscord<Chronos [She/Her]> In reply to @odexine "why not? erroring out": It's a chat platform
02:56:26FromDiscord<odexine> all systems will always have design flaws
02:56:31FromDiscord<Chronos [She/Her]> If your client errors outz that's an issue
02:56:37FromDiscord<odexine> not always?
02:56:46FromDiscord<Chronos [She/Her]> In reply to @odexine "all systems will always": Design flaws that can be fixed that won't become a massive issue
02:56:52FromDiscord<odexine> there are things that legitimately are impossible to "solve"
02:56:56FromDiscord<Chronos [She/Her]> In reply to @odexine "not always?": If the server crashes that's an issue
02:57:02FromDiscord<Chronos [She/Her]> This isn't impossible to solve tho
02:57:05FromDiscord<odexine> you're conflating things
02:57:18FromDiscord<Chronos [She/Her]> Users will be stored in a table, by ID
02:57:20FromDiscord<odexine> sure, you do you
02:57:26FromDiscord<Chronos [She/Her]> If two users have the same ID that's an issue
02:57:30FromDiscord<odexine> yes
02:57:37FromDiscord<Chronos [She/Her]> Oh well
02:57:42FromDiscord<Chronos [She/Her]> I'll figure it out later or something
02:57:46FromDiscord<odexine> and you solve that by retrying to create the user when an error (same id) occurs
02:59:07FromDiscord<odexine> btw you cannot reliably get a unique identifier on a system, that would be a fingerprinting (privacy) problem
02:59:19FromDiscord<odexine> especially if you're running in browser
02:59:39FromDiscord<Chronos [She/Her]> In reply to @odexine "and you solve that": That's an issue, can't do that with two separate account systems since they're blind to eachother (doing federation)
03:00:04FromDiscord<odexine> two separate account systems should be isolated in "id space"
03:00:39FromDiscord<odexine> one user having the same ID as another but with differing account providers should be a nonissue
03:00:51FromDiscord<odexine> as you will know that theyre of different account providers...
03:02:31FromDiscord<Chronos [She/Her]> Hm
03:02:39FromDiscord<Chronos [She/Her]> Yeah alright then, thanks Rika
03:02:48FromDiscord<Chronos [She/Her]> I won't think too hard about this anymore
03:12:14FromDiscord<jviega> @Chronos [She/Her] IIRC, ULIDS have 45 bits of timestamp and 83 bits of randomness
03:12:40FromDiscord<jviega> So the point where a collision is worrisome is after about 2^41 ULIDs
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03:13:59FromDiscord<jviega> That's 4,398,046,511,104 ULIDs before there's a 50% chance of a single collision
03:16:05FromDiscord<odexine> and i assume that's if you generate them within one bit's worth of time in the timestampo
03:16:07FromDiscord<odexine> (edit) "timestampo" => "timestamp"
03:16:21FromDiscord<jviega> No, the timestamp is 45 bits
03:16:59FromDiscord<jviega> If you did 128 bits, you'd have the comfort of 2^64 ULIDs
03:18:55FromDiscord<odexine> i thought you got 2^41 from 83 randomness bits halved (birthday paradox) and then that's per (time span between one bit of timestamp)?
03:20:49FromDiscord<jviega> The birthday paradox is right, but that gives you the number you need till you have a 50% chance of finding two items colliding, out of ALL items
03:20:59FromDiscord<jviega> Think of each ULID as a person giving their birthday.
03:21:49FromDiscord<odexine> :HaaNotlikethis:
03:22:08FromDiscord<odexine> isee
03:22:51FromDiscord<odexine> so find 50% chance of finding n (n > 1) items colliding kinda thing?
03:24:25FromDiscord<Chronos [She/Her]> In reply to @jviega "<@524288464422830095> IIRC, ULIDS have": 48 bit timestamp and 80 bit randomness
03:25:09FromDiscord<Chronos [She/Her]> In reply to @jviega "That's 4,398,046,511,104 ULIDs before": The spec also says if a ULID is generated in the same timestamp as another, you increment the randomness value rather than create a new random value
03:25:23FromDiscord<jviega> I don't understand the question. If you have 2^128 equally possible outcomes, to find the number of items you need to generate, you essentially half the log, so it's 2^64 before any TWO collide
03:25:59FromDiscord<Chronos [She/Her]> Was mostly just be being kinda stupid lol
03:26:21FromDiscord<jviega> Why do you even care about it? The only reason to use a ULID beyond compatability is that they're time sortable
03:26:21FromDiscord<Chronos [She/Her]> Me
03:26:24FromDiscord<odexine> OH then you accumulate it every time you generate
03:26:26FromDiscord<odexine> ?
03:26:34FromDiscord<jviega> For user IDs, just base32 encode a 128 bit random value
03:26:38FromDiscord<Chronos [She/Her]> In reply to @odexine "OH then you accumulate": Yeah until the timestamp changes
03:26:53FromDiscord<odexine> In reply to @chronos.vitaqua "Yeah until the timestamp": no i was thinking about what jtvsaid lol
03:27:04FromDiscord<odexine> In reply to @jviega "For user IDs, just": or just UUID if you want
03:27:28FromDiscord<Chronos [She/Her]> In reply to @jviega "Why do you even": Stores the timestamp, that's the exact reason I'm using it, otherwise I'd use my own format lol
03:27:41FromDiscord<jviega> UUIDs are a bit fugly but sure
03:27:49FromDiscord<jviega> Why do you need the timestamp in the userid?
03:28:04FromDiscord<jviega> Why not just keep two separate fields?
03:28:08FromDiscord<odexine> ? just put it in another column?
03:28:18FromDiscord<Chronos [She/Her]> Convenience?
03:28:28FromDiscord<odexine> its LESS convenient to do what you're doing isnt it
03:28:34FromDiscord<jviega> I don't find it to be more convenient if you care to extract a date from a ULID
03:28:54FromDiscord<jviega> It's much simpler to just pick a random 128-bit value and go.
03:28:58FromDiscord<Chronos [She/Her]> It's much more convenient to be able to have the timestamp there if needed (an example would be channel creation or message creation)
03:29:08FromDiscord<Chronos [She/Her]> In reply to @odexine "its LESS convenient to": Now I'm not fussed about conflicts so it's fine
03:29:24FromDiscord<Chronos [She/Her]> In reply to @jviega "I don't find it": The library would parse it, in my head at least
03:29:33FromDiscord<jviega> Yeah, and if you want it all in one data blob, you can encode 128 bits of randomness with the date
03:29:47FromDiscord<odexine> you'd be spending so much more on parse over just asking for another column i'd say
03:30:09FromDiscord<sOkam! 🫐> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=4F9E
03:30:36FromDiscord<odexine> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=4F9F
03:30:39FromDiscord<odexine> iirc that's the correct way to do it
03:31:02FromDiscord<Chronos [She/Her]> In reply to @jviega "Yeah, and if you": Ig so
03:31:21FromDiscord<sOkam! 🫐> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=4F9G
03:31:25FromDiscord<odexine> not sure then
03:32:10FromDiscord<Chronos [She/Her]> May do that then, if norm supports dates and stuff (which I wouldn't see why it wouldn't support that)
03:32:21FromDiscord<sOkam! 🫐> that's the syntax the manual is giving too, but.. its not ignoring it for some reason
03:32:33FromDiscord<sOkam! 🫐> it also mentions something about "in a push pragma like. ..."
03:35:42FromDiscord<sOkam! 🫐> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=4F9H
03:36:29FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Might not be able to disable this warning in code
03:36:32FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Is this a generic?
03:37:59FromDiscord<sOkam! 🫐> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=4F9I
03:38:09FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> It's generic it has `static`
03:38:17FromDiscord<sOkam! 🫐> oh
03:38:18FromDiscord<odexine> `str`?
03:38:47FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> You can try the warning on/off inside the proc, but doubt it'd work
03:38:48FromDiscord<sOkam! 🫐> (edit) "https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=4F9I" => "https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=4F9J"
03:38:48FromDiscord<sOkam! 🫐> In reply to @odexine "`str`?": fixed
03:39:14FromDiscord<sOkam! 🫐> you will also ask me about prnt and echof, and they are wrapped C functions for cstrings
03:39:16FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Though I'd just say use `when` `else`
03:39:40FromDiscord<sOkam! 🫐> In reply to @Elegantbeef "Though I'd just say": isn't the code implying an else?
03:39:41FromDiscord<odexine> In reply to @heysokam "you will also ask": i wouldnt have lol str was just suspicious
03:39:49FromDiscord<odexine> In reply to @heysokam "isn't the code implying": yes but nim doesn t analyse it
03:39:58FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> It's implying else, sure but that's not what Nim sees
03:40:02FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> It sees `return; ....`
03:40:02FromDiscord<sOkam! 🫐> oh
03:40:08FromDiscord<sOkam! 🫐> kk
03:41:42FromDiscord<sOkam! 🫐> when else worked, tyty
03:44:07FromDiscord<sOkam! 🫐> is there a way to say something like `--warningAsError:ALL:on` or similar?
03:44:40FromDiscord<sOkam! 🫐> manual mentions that you can enable-disable them all at once, but not mark them as errors all at once. was wondering if there is something else 🤔
03:45:53FromDiscord<odexine> try that? `all` lowercase
03:46:22FromDiscord<sOkam! 🫐> hmm
03:47:02FromDiscord<sOkam! 🫐> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=
04:04:12FromDiscord<nnsee> In reply to @chronos.vitaqua "It's much more convenient": fwiw the timestamps in uuids aren't really meant for actually storing timestamps, but rather easy sorting of uuids in chronological order
04:08:25FromDiscord<Chronos [She/Her]> In reply to @nnsee "fwiw the timestamps in": Yeah I'm aware
04:20:21FromDiscord<cedb> anyone ever tried to build OCI images with nim?
04:20:50FromDiscord<cedb> _cedb really hates buildah (and golang in general)_
04:21:15FromDiscord<cedb> besides the bindings for the storage it doesnt look really hard just sort of tedious
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06:12:28FromDiscord<sOkam! 🫐> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=4Fah
06:12:40FromDiscord<sOkam! 🫐> i mean... how is varargs string not a varargs string? 🧩
06:14:19FromDiscord<sOkam! 🫐> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=4Fai
06:17:05FromDiscord<huantian> which line in the block is the errro on?
06:17:08FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> It's ambiguous which one you want I imagine
06:17:18FromDiscord<huantian> ohhh yeah
06:17:46FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> `log(level, false, args)` is equally `varargs[string, `$`]` and `bool, varargs[string, `$`]`
06:17:55FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Whoops
06:18:16FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=4Faj
06:18:43FromDiscord<sOkam! 🫐> ohhh
06:19:04FromDiscord<sOkam! 🫐> true because flush passes as one of the varargs, damn
06:19:11FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Probably can do `flush = false` to override that
06:19:31FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> inside the `logger.log` call of course
06:19:32FromDiscord<sOkam! 🫐> but then how do you define the non-requiring flush alternative?
06:19:52FromDiscord<sOkam! 🫐> oh you mean explicitely calling
06:19:57FromDiscord<sOkam! 🫐> (edit) "explicitely" => "explicitly"
06:20:55FromDiscord<sOkam! 🫐> I guess its fine, mandatory spelling the flush variable is actually good for the api
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06:37:46FromDiscord<sOkam! 🫐> finally getting rid of that dreaded technical debt. I payed my dues!! 🥳 https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/371759389889003532/1147420080951537715/image.png
06:42:50NimEventerNew Nimble package! nulid - A ULID implementation in Nim!, see https://github.com/Yu-Vitaqua-fer-Chronos/NULID
06:54:22FromDiscord<Phil> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=4Fas
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07:46:35FromDiscord<terrygillis> Is there a guide to reading the profiling result from nimprof? I read the docs and a blog post but they seem to just gloss over it. I know it’s a stack trace but there are ‘entries’ and numbers and ratios and percentages that I can’t really make sense of.
07:47:20FromDiscord<odexine> The big numbers are usually “how many times the function was called”
07:47:44FromDiscord<odexine> The percentages are “what % of all the calls were of this function”
07:48:28FromDiscord<terrygillis> what do entries mean?
07:50:04FromDiscord<terrygillis> also what does ratio like 2183/2207 indicate? sometimes the denominator is higher and other vice versa
07:50:18FromDiscord<odexine> I don’t remember the precise output, do you mind pasting a few lines for me to read?
07:56:55FromDiscord<terrygillis> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=4FaH
07:58:38FromDiscord<m4ul3r> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=4FaI
07:58:47FromDiscord<m4ul3r> (edit) "https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=4FaI" => "https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=4FaJ"
07:58:54FromDiscord<m4ul3r> file does exist
07:59:00FromDiscord<sOkam! 🫐> probably because of the @
07:59:20FromDiscord<m4ul3r> ah windows, hmm how to handle that?
07:59:55FromDiscord<sOkam! 🫐> does it work if you escape the caracter?
08:00:07FromDiscord<sOkam! 🫐> dont know how to do it, just throwing ideas
08:01:11FromDiscord<m4ul3r> doesn't seem to work
08:07:25FromDiscord<m4ul3r> I'm able to run `os.execShellCmd("dir " & fileName)` on the string
08:14:04FromDiscord<m4ul3r> I can jankly just read it with powershell :blobshrug:
08:40:42FromDiscord<enthus1ast> @m4ul3r and with just "/" ?
08:41:20FromDiscord<enthus1ast> we also have a `/` proc that can combine path's
08:52:17FromDiscord<odexine> sent a code paste, see https://paste.rs/lLUMD
08:52:43FromDiscord<odexine> In any case, this doesn’t measure time spent in a function
08:52:49FromDiscord<m4ul3r> In reply to @enthus1ast "<@186968592544301058> and with just": I'm passing in a string to open, `/` doesn't seem to work either
09:00:11FromDiscord<griffith1deadly> Does --stacktrace:on degrade performance much in release mode? I'm just trying to make a CrashReport, something like the system from Minecraft
09:19:19FromDiscord<odexine> It degrades performance by a good amount I would say
09:19:38FromDiscord<odexine> Test if it’s too much
09:21:25FromDiscord<griffith1deadly> hmm, looks like I'll have to do a workaround for this. i'll still be able to manage exceptions in the main loop
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12:07:06PMunchHmm, the warning "unsafe conversion to 'cstring' from 'ptr char'" which will become an error in the future. How are we supposed to tell Nim that it's okay?
12:08:18PMunchIn my case I have creating a string with `newString` and I need to pass it to a C function which will populate a string. So I pass it `result[0].addr` and then after the call I properly set the length of the string based on what was put in it.
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12:49:30FromDiscord<.destynova> ^ is it something to do with overloading? Do you still get the error if you remove/rename the top definition of `log`, or the bottom one?
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13:06:06FromDiscord<kingterrytheterrible12> gang
13:06:18FromDiscord<kingterrytheterrible12> can nim qml be compiled for android
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13:14:13FromDiscord<ringabout> In reply to @PMunch "Hmm, the warning "unsafe": You can use `cast[cstring](...)`.
13:14:40PMunch@kingterrytheterrible12, Nim QML relies on DOtherSide which seems to only support Windows and Linux
13:14:54PMunch@ringabout, ah, so I just have to explicitly cast it
13:14:59FromDiscord<kingterrytheterrible12> In reply to @PMunch "<@655759729477287956>, Nim QML relies": what are my options for running nim on mobile
13:15:09PMunchI tried `result[0].addr.cstring` but that also threw the same warning
13:15:11FromDiscord<kingterrytheterrible12> or android specifically
13:16:07PMunch@kingterrytheterrible12, this came up recently on Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/nim/comments/ynv5fz/is_it_possible_to_make_android_apps_with_nim/
13:17:15PMunchThere are also these two projects: https://github.com/GordonBGood/NimHelloJNI and https://github.com/akavel/hellomello/tree/master
13:17:29PMunchIf we can somehow merge those two I think we'd be in good shape
13:18:17FromDiscord<kingterrytheterrible12> In reply to @PMunch "There are also these": the whole point of me using nim is to not use java
13:18:27FromDiscord<kingterrytheterrible12> the android DX is so horrible
13:18:33PMunchDX?
13:18:39PMunchDeveloper Experience?
13:19:08FromDiscord<kingterrytheterrible12> In reply to @PMunch "Developer Experience?": yes
13:20:34PMunchThe problem is that every app on Android kinda has to start through the JVM. You have the JNI (Java Native Interface I believe) which allows you to run native code, and this is where Nim comes it. Nim would compile to native code, then you need a small Java shim to basically just hand everything over to Nim. The hellomello project I linked above is all about building a Dalvik binary which properly runs under the JVM without ever having to install the
13:20:34PMunchJava/Android toolchains
13:21:15PMunchThe NimHelloJNI example is mostly to interface between Nim and the JNI in order to do certain things which are only available from Java, such as using the native UI toolkit
13:22:17PMunchCurrently the easiest way to build Nim Android apps would probably be to use SDL and your own UI toolkit. I've created an Android game in Nim before, it was pretty easy to set up.
13:23:09PMunchThe alternative would be to find some kind of Android skeleton app which just wrapped a website and use Nim compiled to JS to run in the embedded browser
13:24:06FromDiscord<kingterrytheterrible12> In reply to @PMunch "The alternative would be": this cannot work due to me needing to capture microphone
13:24:41PMunchIf we somehow took hellomello and NimHelloJNI and fused them together we could potentially have a library which you could use without having to grab the Java SDK and still be able to interface with everything in the phone
13:24:54PMunch@kingterrytheterrible12, not sure why any of that would limit you from using the microphone..
13:25:27PMunchThe app would have microphone permissions in its manifest, so both the web-app and the SDL app should be able to read from the microphone
13:25:45FromDiscord<kingterrytheterrible12> In reply to @PMunch "<@655759729477287956>, not sure why": bc i need to take the input, pass it to openai whisper (C++ port) then do things with the input then play the audio back to the user
13:25:49PMunchThe web-app through HTML5 microphone APIs and SDL probably has some microphone wrapper thing
13:26:17PMunchAh, then you would probably have to at least have some kind of native component
13:26:36PMunchNot sure if the skeleton web-app things have the ability to run a background native app, but maybe
13:36:34FromDiscord<sOkam! 🫐> In reply to @PMunch "There are also these": whats the benefit of one over the other?
13:36:49FromDiscord<sOkam! 🫐> like, what features are to keep from each of them?
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13:45:55FromDiscord<kingterrytheterrible12> In reply to @PMunch "The web-app through HTML5": nah Qt quick is the way to go ngl
13:45:59FromDiscord<kingterrytheterrible12> with C++
13:56:33FromDiscord<Chronos [She/Her]> In reply to @kingterrytheterrible12 "yes": You'd have to use NativeActivity somehow, I'm just not sure how
14:08:06FromDiscord<Chronos [She/Her]> In reply to @PMunch "There are also these": I wonder if the JNI could be replaced with JNim easily
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14:37:08FromDiscord<jviega> In reply to @PMunch "In my case I": I've been declaring the C interface to take void and then pass in a pointer
14:40:43FromDiscord<alohaer> Would this be the best channel to ask a question about an error I'm having with a nim program I am trying to write?
14:45:26FromDiscord<kots> yes
14:58:49FromDiscord<kingterrytheterrible12> In reply to @chronos.vitaqua "You'd have to use": or fuck android dev
14:59:02FromDiscord<kingterrytheterrible12> im just gonna use regular desktop dev
14:59:09FromDiscord<kingterrytheterrible12> not touching mobile ever again
15:01:44FromDiscord<griffith1deadly> How do you shut the compiler up with "can have an unlisted effect: RootEffect"?
15:04:56FromDiscord<alohaer> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=4FcN
15:06:21FromDiscord<alohaer> (edit) "https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=4FcN" => "https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=4FcO"
15:09:29FromDiscord<kingterrytheterrible12> after exploring multiple GUI frameworks electron isnt that bad after all
15:14:47FromDiscord<sOkam! 🫐> In reply to @alohaer "I'm trying to follow": how are you using `ref`, `seq` and `string` without a GC at all?↵those are exclusively GC'ed objects, they cannot be used without a GC
15:15:42FromDiscord<alohaer> I didn't know that, I just set --gc:None
15:16:17FromDiscord<sOkam! 🫐> In reply to @alohaer "I didn't know that,": gc:none means no dynamic objects, which rules out like 75-90% of the stdlib
15:17:30FromDiscord<sOkam! 🫐> meaning, you cannot use gc:none as a measure of your application behavior, basically
15:17:42FromDiscord<sOkam! 🫐> the issue lies somewhere else
15:17:51FromDiscord<alohaer> Okay, I wasn't intending to use no GC, I was just trying to see if changing could help me find the issue.
15:18:28FromDiscord<sOkam! 🫐> makes sense
15:18:56FromDiscord<sOkam! 🫐> do you have the context around where the issue happens? what's the error -with- gc active and your regular code?
15:19:31NimEventerNew thread by ploxotnuj1: Is it possible to make an extension for the browser on nim-lang?, see https://forum.nim-lang.org/t/10454
15:20:30FromDiscord<sOkam! 🫐> @alohaer https://play.nim-lang.org this would be very useful, if you application can fit in there
15:22:23qwrall these gc'd objects work perfectly well with gc:none, they just won't be deallocated before exit, for utilities with short runtime it can be perfectly ok
15:23:36qwrin fact, it might give exactly the same result as --mm:markAndSweep in that case
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15:26:38FromDiscord<alohaer> I've shared here, but it is multiple files so you cannot run it https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=4Fd1
15:28:00FromDiscord<sOkam! 🫐> In reply to @alohaer "I've shared here, but": yeah seems a bit lacking in context to give any help↵can you paste the error you are getting -with- gc?
15:28:36FromDiscord<alohaer> It is at the bottom of play-nim
15:29:19FromDiscord<sOkam! 🫐> oh... there is a more stuff. sry didnt see it
15:30:58FromDiscord<sOkam! 🫐> @alohaer do you have any `ref object` in there that you havent `new MyObjectType` before using them?
15:31:09FromDiscord<sOkam! 🫐> (edit) "in there" => "inside that sequence"
15:31:31FromDiscord<sOkam! 🫐> its trying to stringify something that is nil, and that something is inside one of the objects of your seq Stmt
15:31:59FromDiscord<alohaer> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=4Fd4
15:32:12FromDiscord<sOkam! 🫐> return is almost never used in nim
15:32:28qwrwhat nim version (and therefore default gc) you have? i.e. i would suspect nim 2.0 and arc/orc
15:32:34FromDiscord<odexine> that's besides the point, that should work
15:32:44FromDiscord<sOkam! 🫐> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=4Fd5
15:32:49FromDiscord<sOkam! 🫐> was just pointing a sidenote
15:33:04FromDiscord<odexine> and `return` is not "almost never used"
15:33:11FromDiscord<alohaer> nim 2.0 and I get the same error on arc and orc
15:33:28FromDiscord<sOkam! 🫐> In reply to @alohaer "nim 2.0 and I": yeah because something is not initialized, its not due to the gc
15:33:29qwryes, but it works with refc or markAndSweep?
15:33:50qwrits probably bug that gets exposed with arc/orc move semantics
15:33:58FromDiscord<alohaer> I haven't tried those, I've only tried --mm:none
15:34:07FromDiscord<odexine> did it work with none?
15:34:22FromDiscord<alohaer> yes
15:34:23FromDiscord<sOkam! 🫐> its using seqs, refs and strings, how would it?
15:34:44FromDiscord<odexine> sokam none means things are not freed, things can still be allocated
15:34:53qwrand i would suspect something inside statements structure, that happens to be alive before interpret call, but not needed later
15:34:57FromDiscord<.maverk> what is the difference between ``#[]#`` and ``##[]##`` ?
15:34:57FromDiscord<odexine> none will just cause your app to exhaust memory
15:35:03FromDiscord<odexine> if it ever
15:35:12FromDiscord<alohaer> It works with refc and markAndSweep
15:35:17FromDiscord<odexine> In reply to @.maverk "what is the difference": 1st is a regular comment, 2nd is a doc comment
15:35:31FromDiscord<.maverk> In reply to @odexine "1st is a regular": yes but where is the difference ?
15:35:40FromDiscord<odexine> what do you mean "where"?
15:35:42FromDiscord<.maverk> they both do the same thing
15:35:45FromDiscord<odexine> they dont
15:35:53FromDiscord<.maverk> show me the difference
15:35:57FromDiscord<odexine> doc comments can only be placed in certain places
15:36:02FromDiscord<.maverk> they both do multiline comment
15:36:16FromDiscord<.maverk> what are these places ?
15:36:21qwri've got similar problems when using closure in for without capturing the loop variable under arc
15:36:36FromDiscord<odexine> they do yes, but doc comments are also put in the nim AST whilst regular comments are not
15:36:58FromDiscord<odexine> doc comments will be read by the doc generator, regular comments will not
15:37:27FromDiscord<.maverk> i don't understand
15:37:36FromDiscord<kots> https://nim-lang.github.io/Nim/manual.html#lexical-analysis-comments↵https://nim-lang.github.io/Nim/docgen.html#introduction-documentation-comments
15:37:49FromDiscord<.maverk> In reply to @k0ts "https://nim-lang.github.io/Nim/manual.html#lexical-": i am in the doc right now
15:38:55FromDiscord<alohaer> In reply to @qwr "i've got similar problems": Is it worth trying to get down to a minimal example of the arc/orc error? will I be good just using refc and moving on (it is just a school assignment)?
15:39:18qwralohaer: you can use refc as workaround, but can try to create minimal test case and do bug report, if the cause won't be appearant (it can be pretty annoying as with the optimizer seemingly totally unrelated statements can make bug appear/go)
15:39:59FromDiscord<odexine> well, if ever, test with devel first
15:40:05FromDiscord<alohaer> Thanks for help everyone
15:40:06FromDiscord<odexine> it might already have a bugfix pushed lol
15:41:00FromDiscord<.maverk> guys i read the docs but is till don't understand pls help
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15:41:46FromDiscord<kots> a doc comment starts with `##` and can be placed inside procs, inside object definitions, etc. to add text that will show up in the docs generated by `nim doc`
15:41:56FromDiscord<kots> `##[]##` is the doc comment version of `#[]#`
15:43:21FromDiscord<.maverk> also #[]# can be in proc
15:43:28FromDiscord<.maverk> i have just tried
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15:43:36FromDiscord<kots> it won't be a doc comment boss
15:43:49FromDiscord<.maverk> what does that mean ?????
15:44:05FromDiscord<.maverk> i don't see any difference
15:46:41NimEventerNew thread by maverk: Where is the difference between these two types of commenting in nim ?, see https://forum.nim-lang.org/t/10455
15:51:30FromDiscord<odexine> In reply to @.maverk "i don't see any": because you're not using the documentation generator
15:52:11FromDiscord<.maverk> In reply to @odexine "because you're not using": where is it ?
15:52:22FromDiscord<.maverk> where is the doc generator ?
15:52:51FromDiscord<odexine> `nim doc <file>.nim`
15:56:50FromDiscord<.maverk> https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/371759389889003532/1147560774777196767/essees.PNG
15:56:59FromDiscord<.maverk> ???? weird
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16:02:21FromDiscord<alohaer> In reply to @odexine "well, if ever, test": No error with arc or orc on devel
16:03:04FromDiscord<odexine> In reply to @.maverk "": only things that are exported are put on the doc page
16:03:17FromDiscord<System64 ~ Flandre Scarlet> https://devguide.python.org/internals/garbage-collector/↵Reference counting↵I will never understand Python's slowness
16:11:51FromDiscord<jaar23> i've following this method to implement logging in multi-thread. https://nim-lang.org/docs/logging.html#basic-usage-notes-when-using-multiple-threads↵but i got multiple logging in my console. When using `echo ` it is just one line, but using `logging` it is 3 - 6 times more being stdout.
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16:49:42FromDiscord<Phil> Any Atlas users present?
16:50:55FromDiscord<Phil> In reply to @jaar23 "i've following this method": Without knowing the setup: Is your code with logging getting executed once per thread and you have 3-6 threads running?↵Other than that, without any kind of code example or the like this seems difficult to diagnose
16:52:44FromDiscord<Phil> In reply to @isofruit "Any Atlas users present?": Actually never mind, found what I was after: Atlas provides, similarly to nimble, a way to parse a nimble file.↵Which is dope.
17:00:27FromDiscord<Chronos [She/Her]> In reply to @PMunch "There are also these": I wonder if HelloMello's build process would benefit from Confy
17:00:49emeryif I have a 4k buffer that I resize to 1k and then again to 3k, can I depend on it not being reallocated?
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17:11:48FromDiscord<jviega> No
17:20:00FromDiscord<jaar23> In reply to @isofruit "Without knowing the setup:": Trying to create some example now. The context is yes, there are multiple thread running, since each request will spawn a new thread. But the log is more than the number of thread
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17:35:57FromDiscord<jviega> If I've got a C lib that will allow me to set a custom memory manager, anyone know the raw C api for allocating objects? Not seeing it in the doc. It not, I'll go dig through the codebase later
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19:46:09FromDiscord<Chronos [She/Her]> In reply to @jviega "If I've got a": https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/blob/devel/lib/system/alloc.nim idk if it supports C tho
19:46:18FromDiscord<Chronos [She/Her]> You could also just make Nim use malloc
19:48:36FromDiscord<jviega> Not for one library in a big project, wouldn't make sense. But things will be looking in detail later, I'm sure I can make it work 🙂
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20:34:29FromDiscord<sOkam! 🫐> In reply to @chronos.vitaqua "I wonder if HelloMello's": honestly, doubt it
20:35:22FromDiscord<sOkam! 🫐> confy is meant to be simple, and with that simplicity its already becoming crazy complex↵i cannot even fathom how the android nightmare would fit into that box, its just too much
20:38:06FromDiscord<sOkam! 🫐> sent a long message, see https://paste.rs/tkpXx
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21:01:55FromDiscord<Chronos [She/Her]> In reply to @heysokam "confy is meant to": Oh not as a first party thing, definitely not, but maybe as a 3rd-party library?
21:02:18FromDiscord<Chronos [She/Her]> In reply to @heysokam "basically, confy is just": Only thing that might be useful is crosscompilation tbf
21:05:11FromDiscord<sOkam! 🫐> In reply to @chronos.vitaqua "Oh not as a": `confy-droid` sounds catchy 🙂↵but i don't think i understand the android setup enough to give good knowledge of whether confy is of any use to that workflow
21:05:47FromDiscord<sOkam! 🫐> In reply to @chronos.vitaqua "Only thing that might": you could achieve that same idea with the zigcc package, and relying on the user to install zig themselves
22:07:33FromDiscord<Chronos [She/Her]> Fair enough
22:08:02FromDiscord<Chronos [She/Her]> Hm, is there any way to make a byte seq into the big endian format? (Assuming that the bytes are stored in a little endian format)
22:20:44NimEventerNew thread by ploxotnuj1: How to make a tray system icons?, see https://forum.nim-lang.org/t/10456
22:24:09FromDiscord<demotomohiro> In reply to @chronos.vitaqua "Hm, is there any": https://nim-lang.org/docs/endians.html
22:27:42FromDiscord<Chronos [She/Her]> In reply to @demotomohiro "https://nim-lang.org/docs/endians.html": Doesn't exist for arrays
22:29:07FromDiscord<demotomohiro> So you need to iterate each data in the array.
22:30:00FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Unless the byte sequence is a single type that is big endian what you're asking doesn't make much sense
22:31:03FromDiscord<Chronos [She/Her]> It's an int128 but `nint128` doesn't have a way to change that to big endian (only for `UInt128`s)
22:34:42FromDiscord<demotomohiro> If they are 128bit ints, you need to implement converting to big endian yourself.
22:41:45FromDiscord<kingterrytheterrible12> https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/371759389889003532/1147662677821366404/Screenshot_20230903_012246_Instagram.jpg
22:41:51FromDiscord<kingterrytheterrible12> W rizz?
22:52:48FromDiscord<Chronos [She/Her]> In reply to @demotomohiro "If they are 128bit": Pain
23:00:47FromDiscord<demotomohiro> In reply to @chronos.vitaqua "Pain": Is it painful to write `swap(x[0], x[15]); swap(x[1], x[14]); ...`?
23:13:23FromDiscord<sOkam! 🫐> Is there any way to wrap/bind a C enum into Nim, so that using it from nim the generated code converts it to an actual C enum, instead of just a `cint`?
23:13:47FromDiscord<sOkam! 🫐> (edit) "Is there any way to wrap/bind a C enum into Nim, so that ... using" added "when"
23:14:02NimEventerNew thread by tcheran: Allowed key types in std/tables, see https://forum.nim-lang.org/t/10457
23:19:43FromDiscord<demotomohiro> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=4Feo
23:21:40FromDiscord<Chronos [She/Her]> In reply to @demotomohiro "Is it painful to": Very tedious yes lol, I've just decided to swap the endian of the two 64-bit ints in the object and then swap the lo and the high
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23:31:50FromDiscord<Chronos [She/Her]> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=4Feq
23:32:01FromDiscord<Chronos [She/Her]> Wait
23:32:08FromDiscord<Chronos [She/Her]> Ah bc it starts with a number
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