<< 03-11-2016 >>
00:01:04libmanIs there a finished Nim shlex?
00:01:36cheatfatewhatis shlex?
00:02:07libmanhttps://pymotw.com/2/shlex/
00:02:32libmanhttps://github.com/google/shlex/blob/master/shlex.go
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00:19:08vlad1777dgood night
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06:26:57FromGitter<gogolxdong> @PMunch Do you mind letting us know your university?
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06:59:26FromGitter<gogolxdong> I am trying to catch a thread of Nim going in practice to share with our community .First thing I know Nim was used in practice is in a first class ATM manufacture's lab, next is your IoT challenge ,I think it will bring Nim to public somehow.
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07:07:24FromGitter<gogolxdong> they reveal the power of Nim in low-level programming ,visual domain is another specific scene I can image, UI ,3D, VR etc.
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07:23:12FromGitter<gogolxdong> I am a full-time developer of a Paas project which use Go as the main develop language. I'd like to do something we can sense and being close to our daily life rather than such cold mechanical commercial product.
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07:24:18ldleworkWhich paas?
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07:24:51FromGitter<gogolxdong> a company in China, Huawei
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07:26:53FromGitter<gogolxdong> FusionCloud
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07:30:11FromGitter<gogolxdong> Deutsche Telekom AG is our client
07:32:52FromGitter<gogolxdong> I introduce a concept called language genes. Products basedGo is rigid
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07:50:13FromGitter<gogolxdong> I think the gene of a language decide what the product rooted on it can be,while Go's is rigid. Docker
07:51:19FromGitter<gogolxdong> I think the gene of a language decide what the product rooted on it can be,while Go's is rigid,so Docker and Kubernetes are mechanical .
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07:53:45FromGitter<gogolxdong> like Terminator
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08:05:35FromGitter<gogolxdong> I once imagined a language which assembly it's semantics and syntax by learning from network and evolve automatically.
08:11:15Araqit would be like a human being compiling code.
08:11:21Araqas error prone as human beings.
08:11:50Araqthe point of a compiler is that's a machine, it helps you by being different from you.
08:12:02Araqit doesn't get bored to optimize thousands of lines of code.
08:12:37Araqit doesn't skim your code during reviews :P
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08:24:25ldleworkgogolxdong, do you know of lojban?
08:24:57FromGitter<gogolxdong> I am afraid not.
08:25:25ldleworkgogolxdong, https://mw.lojban.org/papri/la_karda
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08:55:04FromGitter<gogolxdong> This is interesting and similar to our pinyin.
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09:17:42flyxI wonder how `???(???, 0) Error: type expected` can happen
09:20:19Araqflyx: some internal node got no line information
09:20:35Araqthese should be rare, but you can easily debug the compiler
09:20:39Araqwanna give it a try?
09:23:27flyxhmm, I have no Nim source setup here, installed it from the package manager. I guess I should be doing other things, but I might get back to it another time
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09:29:06Araqok, then just report it please
09:29:38SalewskiAraq, I followed your debugging example from yesterday. Really very easy, and works fine.
09:30:17SalewskiMaybe a similar gdb debugging example should be visible on a prominent location at Nim home page.
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09:31:32Salewski"May be hard to debug" is what some peole say when they hear "compiles to C"
09:32:38Araqshould be part of our cookbook
09:33:10SalewskiBye...
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09:47:58flyxAraq: https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/issues/4992
09:47:58flyxthat was a bitch to replicate (actual code currently isn't open source)
09:48:02FromGitter<gogolxdong> I know speech recognition had experienced a dark time when natural language experts trying to analysis language logically .
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10:41:01euantorWhat's the recommended fix for this issue? https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/issues/4983
10:41:17euantorI've got a copy of mingw x64 installed to C:\mingw\mingw64\bin
10:41:29euantorI've dropped Nim into C:\Nim\0.15.2
10:41:48euantorRunning `C:\Nim\0.15.2\finish.exe` dumps the error mentioned in that issue
10:43:15AraqI don't understand this error
10:43:25AraqI thought it's about overly long paths
10:43:37Araqbut C:\Nim seems as short as it can get
10:43:37euantorYeah, I saw your comment, but my path is pretty short
10:45:19Araqmaybe dom96 is right and I should just patch the zips
10:46:26Araqwhat's your locale like?
10:46:35euantoren_GB
10:47:20euantorTHough `Get-UICulture` returns `en-US`
10:47:46euantorhttps://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/IBe2uXe5/
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10:50:05Araqhttp://nim-lang.org/download/finish.exe
10:50:05Araqtry this one please
10:50:07Araqif it works, I'll update the zips
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10:53:04Araqbtw 'finish.exe' doesn't do anything special, you can also setup your env manually
10:53:04euantorSame error unfortunately
10:53:22euantorYeah, I've already done that
10:54:09cheatfateeuantor, could you please gist your PATH variable?
10:55:05euantorHere's my PATH, split into lines https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/wVE79yEo/
10:55:11Araqyeah, you have some non existing stuff in your PATH
10:55:21Araqwhich finish.nim doesn't protect against
10:55:26euantorThat's more than possible
10:55:29Araqnothing to do with path lengths
10:55:39FromGitter<moigagoo> What's the easiest way to declare custom pragma with value? I've lurked through the docs and found the pragma pragma, which allows to do pragma shortcuts, and that templates and macros can be used as pragmas, but without value.
10:58:05Araqtemplates can get a value
10:58:17Araqtemplates/macros can get a value
10:58:26Araqtemplate foo(val, body) = ...
10:58:38Araqproc p() {foo: "value".} = ...
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11:02:32cheatfateAraq, what does this mean " yeah, you have some non existing stuff in your PATH"? which one?
11:02:50Araqcheatfate: some directory which doesn't exist
11:02:57Araqwhich we then try to expand
11:03:15cheatfateAraq, expandFileName for windows using GetFullPathName
11:03:32cheatfateand from MSDN: This function does not verify that the resulting path and file name are valid, or that they see an existing file on the associated volume.
11:04:27FromGitter<moigagoo> @Araq Thanks!
11:04:38cheatfateso it must not raise exception if some directories are not valid
11:04:59cheatfateonly if path string is invalid
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11:08:58Araqhmm
11:09:03cheatfateeuantor, could you please store your PATH variable without modifications
11:09:23cheatfatebecause i have made test file and run expandFileName on every path you show
11:09:31cheatfateand there was no errors or exceptions
11:09:35euantorcheatfate: the only modification I've made is split it into newlines, I can provide it without that
11:10:01euantorhttps://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/7cJWrAv9/
11:12:39cheatfatethanks
11:17:29cheatfateAraq, ok i have found a problem
11:18:29cheatfateAraq, you need to check for empty string before call to expandFileName
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11:18:54cheatfateif you take a look at https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/7cJWrAv9/ check last symbol is ';'
11:19:06cheatfateso split(';') returns last string as empty string
11:19:17cheatfateand you passing this string to api
11:19:25cheatfateso it causes an error
11:20:33cheatfatePATH variable can have this ;;;;; many times so you need to check for empty string from your split(';')
11:22:01cheatfateAraq, ?
11:22:22Araqaye, makes sense
11:22:50Araqbut what if I have a real syntax error in my PATH, I need a try except around the expandFilename anyway
11:24:04cheatfateAraq, i dont think OS will add bad string to path
11:24:12cheatfatei can't add it via interface
11:24:33Araqit's just a string, I can put anything in there
11:24:57Araqmodern OSes: stringly typed code everywhere.
11:25:09Araqbut hey, it's only bad design when PHP does it, right?
11:25:09cheatfateok
11:25:42cheatfatecover it with exception block too
11:29:24Araqeuantor: please download finish.exe again and retry
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11:30:48euantorSeems to have fixed it
11:31:04euantorIt said my MinGW install was incompatible, but I know it isn't so I just ignored it
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11:32:22Araqoh yeah I compiled it as a 32bit app
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11:55:21cheatfateso we will get 0.15.4?
11:58:24Araqdunno. what do you think?
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12:00:00cheatfatebut i dont think you can release 0.15.2a
12:00:04cheatfate:)
12:00:19cheatfateinstallation bugs are serious
12:00:28cheatfatealso we have braces
12:01:13Araqcan I buy Skylake CPUs already?
12:01:52euantorSkylake CPUs have been available for ages
12:02:21euantorKaby Lake is the new codename
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12:05:28AraqI'm not up to date :P
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12:49:38arnetheduckoh.. braces syntax and tabs allowed.. did someone.. get hit by a brick?
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13:06:04flyxthere are Skylakes in the new MBPs… if Apple had done anything useful with them, I would have ordered one already
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13:17:53lg_hey, is it possible to make nim ignore SIGSEGV? I need coredump files to be written ..
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13:28:06FromGitter<moigagoo> @Araq According to the docs, templates and macros can be used as pragmas on proc definitions. I tried it and it works just fine. But how do I create a pragma I can use in variable and object property declarations? ``` template myPragma(body: untyped) = echo "enter" body echo "leave" proc foo() {.myPragma.} = discard # this works var x {.myPragma.} = 3 # invalid pragma ```
13:31:20FromGitter<moigagoo> *``` ⏎ template myPragma(body: untyped) = ⏎ echo "enter" ⏎ body ⏎ echo "leave" ... [https://gitter.im/nim-lang/Nim?at=581b3c28eed0c3125f2fd153]
13:31:42FromGitter<moigagoo> *Fixed the code sample
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13:45:07Araqcurrently template/macros as pragmas can only affect routine declarations
13:45:54AraqmyPragma:
13:46:01Araq var x = 3 # workaround for vars
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14:00:13Araqarnetheduck: does that mean you don't like the feature? :-)
14:06:22arnetheduckAraq, it's a great feature, it'll provide fuel for flamewars and bikesheds for years to come, and more code in the compiler is always nice
14:07:23arnetheduckat least the braces make it somewhat easier to adopt inline in certain situations, but tabs?
14:09:52Araqthe tabs are only available with the braces
14:09:57Araqwell it's a tradeoff. "omg, Nim is a mess" vs "hey great, I can finally use the language"
14:18:06FromGitter<dom96> For the record, here is what I think will happen. Everyone will point to this as another feature which makes Nim unusable for them.
14:19:05FromGitter<dom96> You can't please everyone, and by allowing every syntax you will piss off a lot more people.
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14:19:56*FromGitter * dom96 wonders if arnetheduck is being sarcastic by calling it a "great feature" or not.
14:22:12Araqyup, that's what will happen. haters gonna hate. Let's instead use C+Python. Because using different programming languages works, using slightly different syntaxes does not.
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14:27:16FromGitter<dom96> Why add this feature then?
14:28:27Araqwe're still in the phase "every publicity is good publicity"
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14:39:24flyxlg_: coredump is written by the kernel, so you don't need to do anything in your Nim code
14:42:09lg_flyx: isn't nim intercepts those fatal signals ?
14:43:39flyxlg_: well that would be os-dependent, you can certainly e.g. use sigaction ( http://nim-lang.org/docs/posix.html#sigaction,cint,Sigaction,Sigaction ) for POSIX
14:43:54flyxlg_: but coredumps are a kernel feature, nothing that is done by Nim
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14:48:41lg_flyx: consider nim program "proc strtod(ptr1: pointer, ptr2: pointer): cdouble {.importc.}\ndiscard strtod(nil, nil)"
14:50:11lg_I was expecting it to coredump and write core file
14:50:15lg_however, all I got is just the obscure message "SIGSEGV: Illegal storage access. (Attempt to read from nil?)"
14:50:21lg_and no `core' file is written
14:50:29flyxwell did you enable coredumps on your system?
14:50:56lg_sure $ ulimit -c ==> unlimited
14:51:10flyxand has your compiler been compiled with coredump support?
14:51:11lg_"Attempt to read from nil?" is actually grepable in nim sources
14:51:13flyxer
14:51:15flyx*your kernel
14:54:25flyxokay, Araq has to answer whether what Nim does affects kernel coredumps
14:54:25lg_of course, analogue C program dumps core as usual "int main() {return strtod(0, 0);}" ==> zsh: segmentation fault (core dumped)
14:54:26flyxwell, it is certainly possible to both print a custom error message but also get a coredump, see http://www.alexonlinux.com/how-to-handle-sigsegv-but-also-generate-core-dump
14:54:26flyxbut it seems that Nim does not do that
14:54:28lg_yes, that is the behaviour I want
14:54:50flyxbest thing to do would be to create an issue
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15:03:09lg_okey, found -d:noSignalHandler - to avoid trapping signals
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15:26:00flyxyay
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16:11:09Araqgood, was about to suggest -d:noSignalHandler :-)
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17:44:07flyxAraq: what's {.benign.} ?
17:47:59Araqsystem.nim defines it as .locks: 0, gcsafe
17:51:36flyxah, okay. I wondered why I get things like this: tests/stdlib/ttime.nim(20, 5) Warning: Cannot prove that 't' is initialized. This will become a compile time error in the future. [ProveInit]
17:51:54flyxand I stumbled upon benign, but that does not seem to be it.
17:53:13flyxI think it would be nice not to be greeted with warnings like this when using the times module, but I do not understand why this warning happens
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