<< 05-05-2022 >>
00:00:02FromDiscord<Bubblie> Honestly ive been struggling with a decision, whether I should make my game engine in C++ vulkan or use the existing vulkan bindings that exist in nim for this, one of my ideas was having C++ handle all the backend and nim using the backend so I could just manipulate the stuff I wrote in C++ with nim instead of having to make the entire thing painstakingly C++
00:01:11FromDiscord<spoon> nimgl vulkan bindings should be good
00:01:14FromDiscord<Bubblie> The reason why I may want to use C++ as there are many libraries that I want to use that aren't directly supported by nim, and I would rather not make bindings for each or use C2Nim for them because it may actually require me writing more logic for it
00:01:17FromDiscord<Bubblie> In reply to @spoon "nimgl vulkan bindings should": tried em
00:01:20FromDiscord<Bubblie> it just
00:01:20FromDiscord<Bubblie> dies
00:01:21FromDiscord<Bubblie> LMAO
00:01:26FromDiscord<spoon> oh
00:01:27FromDiscord<Bubblie> the other one I found works t hough
00:01:29FromDiscord<Bubblie> a bit
00:01:33FromDiscord<Bubblie> (edit) "t hough" => "though"
00:01:56FromDiscord<Bubblie> also nim vulkan isn't on the latest vulkan yet
00:02:38FromDiscord<Bubblie> I still want to use nim in some way, but I was thinking it could act more as what manipulates the game engine, rather than what makes it up
00:02:55FromDiscord<Bubblie> because at that point I can just link everything to C++ methods I have created
00:03:11FromDiscord<Bubblie> and have it execute those and such
00:03:22FromDiscord<Bubblie> almost like bindings, but not total bindings to the libraries im using in C++
00:03:30FromDiscord<Bubblie> scripting language if you will to some degree
00:04:01FromDiscord<spoon> i mean i guess you could bind a few of your own ui procedures
00:04:29FromDiscord<Bubblie> I do wish nim had official vulkan bindings like they do for opengl tbh
00:04:40FromDiscord<spoon> there is nim-lang/vulkan
00:04:52FromDiscord<spoon> no wait
00:04:58FromDiscord<spoon> im illiterate
00:05:00FromDiscord<Bubblie> Lmao
00:05:03FromDiscord<Bubblie> Its alright
00:05:14FromDiscord<Bubblie> nim-lang/opengl exists so does sdl2 bindings
00:06:57FromDiscord<spoon> hmm i did have a problem with nimgl's imgui bindings only working when compiling to c++
00:07:10FromDiscord<Bubblie> Yeah
00:07:17FromDiscord<Bubblie> Ive only had problems with nimgl sadly
00:07:19FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> You need cimgui to have them work with C
00:07:39FromDiscord<spoon> In reply to @Elegantbeef "You need cimgui to": yeah ik, i was just wondering if that might be the problem with vulkan
00:07:48FromDiscord<Bubblie> I was thinking maybe i could wriye c++ rendering and have nim do the logic
00:07:53FromDiscord<Bubblie> (edit) "wriye" => "write"
00:08:05FromDiscord<Bubblie> Oh god I have to use cmake
00:08:08FromDiscord<Bubblie> NOOOOOO
00:08:45FromDiscord<Bubblie> God cmake is horrid
00:09:10FromDiscord<Bubblie> Maybe I can use meson with tensorflow or pytorch c++ bindings
00:09:19FromDiscord<spoon> im curious how well futhark will wrap vulkan
00:09:46FromDiscord<Bubblie> Probably decently
00:09:54FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Uhh if you have the vulkan dev packages you dont need anything else↵(@spoon)
00:09:56FromDiscord<Bubblie> I was using it to wrap glfw
00:10:10FromDiscord<Bubblie> I havent finished it fully
00:10:12FromDiscord<Bubblie> But it sorta works
00:10:20FromDiscord<Bubblie> Then it crashes after like
00:10:22FromDiscord<Bubblie> A second
00:10:26FromDiscord<Bubblie> But thats my fault LMAO
00:10:30FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Yea i've used it for wasmedge and it's working lovely
00:10:41FromDiscord<Bubblie> Futhark is genuinely brilliant
00:11:03FromDiscord<Bubblie> And its why im debating to go full nim or not
00:11:32FromDiscord<Bubblie> Because If I can get this working with glfw that would be quite awesome, and then its just vulkan
00:11:49FromDiscord<Bubblie> I might actually wrap both instead of using those vulkan bindings I found
00:11:57FromDiscord<Bubblie> Or atleast attempt to wrap both
00:12:13FromDiscord<Bubblie> Because I would like to use vulkan’s latest due to the extension updates qnd such
00:12:29FromDiscord<Bubblie> Its not much of a difference but
00:12:33FromDiscord<Bubblie> It would be quite nice
00:12:53FromDiscord<spoon> i might be using nim to interact with an existing mongo database soon, are the bindings to a point where i dont have to worry about anything?
00:12:56FromDiscord<Bubblie> Idk im in a perpetual state of confusion
00:13:11FromDiscord<Bubblie> In reply to @spoon "i might be using": For what?
00:13:36FromDiscord<Bubblie> Mongo db with vulkan?
00:13:41FromDiscord<Bubblie> Ive never heard of that lol
00:13:46FromDiscord<spoon> no a discord bot lol
00:13:49FromDiscord<Bubblie> Oh
00:13:55FromDiscord<Bubblie> D++ with nim?
00:13:58FromDiscord<spoon> pixie + dimscord has worked super nice
00:14:08FromDiscord<Bubblie> Is there a nim discord api
00:14:14FromDiscord<spoon> dimscord yeah
00:14:21FromDiscord<Bubblie> 👀👀
00:14:21FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Yes
00:14:28FromDiscord<Bubblie> I had no idea oml
00:14:29FromDiscord<Bubblie> Thats amazing
00:15:31FromDiscord<Bubblie> Fuck it, im gonna try using nim with vulkan and glfw and see what happens
00:15:45FromDiscord<spoon> yeah, and i used pixie to generate images and just straight up used the encoding function without writing to disc
00:15:59FromDiscord<Bubblie> If it isn’t the best for whatever reason, ill make c++ handle the rendering and nim use that to handle logic
00:19:34FromDiscord<Bubblie> In reply to @spoon "pixie + dimscord has": is pixie that vector graphics library
00:19:44FromDiscord<Bubblie> you used a vector graphics library with dimscord?
00:20:33FromDiscord<spoon> In reply to @Bubblie "is pixie that vector": its an image generation/manipulation library
00:21:03FromDiscord<spoon> it has vector support though
00:21:18FromDiscord<Bubblie> I wonder how it compares to skia
00:21:24FromDiscord<Bubblie> I used skia and it was just
00:21:25FromDiscord<Bubblie> amazing
00:22:40FromDiscord<spoon> it has all the things like image mats and shadows and image position and rotation and
00:23:25FromDiscord<!Patitotective> how should i join enviroment variables? is there a cross-platform way?↵so i can use `putEnv` with `getEnv` 🤔
00:23:40FromDiscord<!Patitotective> i mean, append to an existing enviroment variable
00:24:04FromDiscord<huantian> there's a variable somewhere that's like pathSeperator
00:24:07FromDiscord<huantian> somewhere
00:24:16FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Probably in OS
00:24:19FromDiscord<Bubblie> In reply to @spoon "it has all the": does it have bitmap font
00:24:32FromDiscord<Bubblie> or just ttf otf and svg
00:24:43FromDiscord<!Patitotective> In reply to @huantian "there's a variable somewhere": smart https://nim-lang.org/docs/os.html#PathSep
00:24:45FromDiscord<spoon> i'd have to look
00:24:54FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> https://github.com/treeform/pixie#image-file-formats
00:28:09FromDiscord<Bubblie> does it support an opengl or graphics api backend like skia does
00:29:04FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> It makes images
00:29:13FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> What you use the images for is up to you
00:29:24FromDiscord<Bubblie> alright
00:29:46FromDiscord<spoon> i mean there's boxy with opengl and gpu rendering which uses pixie
00:30:25FromDiscord<Bubblie> oooo
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01:03:19FromDiscord<!Patitotective> does `"user" / ".nimble/bin"` on windows gets converted to `user\.nimble\bin`?
01:04:03FromDiscord<Rika> Yes
01:04:08FromDiscord<!Patitotective> :]
01:04:26FromDiscord<Rika> Wait, not the second slash technically
01:05:14FromDiscord<!Patitotective> :[
01:05:27FromDiscord<!Patitotective> then what
01:05:52FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> `user\.nimble/bin`
01:07:46FromDiscord<!Patitotective> i dont get it↵`"user" / ".nimble" / "bin"` should work
01:10:18FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> work where?
01:10:41FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Are you attempting to do `getHomeDir() / ".nimble" / "bin"`?
01:10:48FromDiscord<!Patitotective> yea :]
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01:19:22FromDiscord<!Patitotective> :OOOOOOOOO https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/371759389889003532/971581840727113748/unknown.png
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01:22:53FromDiscord<!Patitotective> what does this mean `Error: unhandled exception: %1 is not a valid Win32 application.` :[↵https://github.com/Patitotective/ImTemplate/runs/6299523833?check_suite_focus=true#step:4:99
01:23:33FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> It means what it says
01:23:45FromDiscord<!Patitotective> whats %1
01:23:57FromDiscord<!Patitotective> (edit) "%1" => "%1?"
01:23:57FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> what `resources` returns
01:24:55FromDiscord<!Patitotective> this `var resources = ""; for resource in installFiles: resources.add "-f=" & resource.replace(" ", "\\ ") & " "`?
01:25:05FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Read the output
01:25:09FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Line 29 is where the error is
01:25:54FromDiscord<!Patitotective> resources should be something like `"-f=file.nim -f=icon.png"`↵the arguments for `nimassets`
01:26:06FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Well they're not
01:26:18FromDiscord<!Patitotective> wdym
01:26:32FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Read your output
01:26:34FromDiscord<!Patitotective> oooooh, i may be using `/` for windows
01:26:40FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> The error is on line 29 so your generated string is wrong
01:26:55FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> `/` inserts the os' directory sep
01:27:48FromDiscord<!Patitotective> i mean `-f=file` `file` can be a string like `assets/icon.png`↵so i may need to replace it
01:28:06FromDiscord<!Patitotective> also does windows manage spaces like linux `file\ with\ spaces.txt`?
01:28:51FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> No clue
01:29:32FromDiscord<!Patitotective> seems like quotes do the thing
01:30:40FromDiscord<huantian> I like very rarely use `\ ` on linux I always use quotes
01:31:16FromDiscord<spoon> linux file directory can use back slash?
01:32:46FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Yea it's escape but you just should quote
01:34:30FromDiscord<!Patitotective> In reply to @Elegantbeef "Yea it's escape but": yep :]
01:43:28FromDiscord<!Patitotective> resources are okay, i think https://github.com/Patitotective/ImTemplate/runs/6299684997?check_suite_focus=true#step:4:98↵but still `Error: unhandled exception: %1 is not a valid Win32 application.`
01:58:49FromDiscord<!Patitotective> ~~what about silly windows go to the silly hell 💀 ~~
02:11:36FromDiscord<!Patitotective> descriptive https://github.com/Patitotective/ImTemplate/runs/6299870844?check_suite_focus=true#step:4:101
02:11:46FromDiscord<!Patitotective> at least there is no `%1`
02:20:49FromDiscord<!Patitotective> time to get my hands dirty, time to use windows 💀
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03:26:12FromDiscord<OceanMongrel> hello, upon downloading nim for windows from the official site, firefox reports malware. is this cause for concern? https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/371759389889003532/971613755320438825/unknown.png
03:26:55FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Nim is popular to write malware and there is much for proper Nim software out in the wild as such it flags Nim for malaware is what i understand
03:26:59FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> there isnt much
03:27:16FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> So no it's not, but if you're really concern the source code is open if you feel like auditing
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04:16:39FromDiscord<spoon> if the zip file is blocked, the hash has to have been intentionally added, right?
04:17:13FromDiscord<spoon> never really noticed since i get it through a package manager, but brave blocks it too
04:28:27FromDiscord<Rika> Not necessarily
04:28:45FromDiscord<Rika> The AV probably decompressed the zip, then check the binaries
04:28:46FromDiscord<Rika> Checked
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06:16:19FromDiscord<spoon> for browsers though?
06:20:11FromDiscord<Phil> sent a long message, see http://ix.io/3X0N
06:21:13FromDiscord<Phil> (edit) "http://ix.io/3X0N" => "http://ix.io/3X0O"
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06:26:46FromDiscord<Rika> In reply to @spoon "for browsers though?": Why wouldn’t a browser be able to do the same thing
06:28:48FromDiscord<spoon> In reply to @Isofruit "As far as I'm": im sure there are a lot of ways to report false positives
06:29:20FromDiscord<Rika> In reply to @spoon "im sure there are": Now if the vendors actually look at them is another thing
06:29:50FromDiscord<Phil> In reply to @spoon "im sure there are": I'm pretty sure the vendors already have a lot of reported false positives, I'm not entirely convinced that's fully the problem
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07:10:43PMunchHmm, I'm trying to wrap some underlying C code into async. I've got something working by registering the file handle, and then setting a callback for `read` events with `addRead`. The problem is if multiple handlers add a reader callback. The file handle says that it is ready to read, the first one is triggers and exhausts the handle, then the next one triggers but blocks as the handle is no longer ready to be read from.
07:11:25PMunchOn linux you can replicate the behaviour with: http://ix.io/3X0V/nim
07:12:07PMunchRemove one of those addReads and the program executes fine (crashing with runForever not having any more handlers or timers, which is expected)
07:12:26PMunchKeep them both and hitting enter now freezes the program in the second handler
07:12:45FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Works fine here
07:12:58NimEventerNew thread by Miran: Nim 1.6.6 released, see https://forum.nim-lang.org/t/9144
07:13:30FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> image.png https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/371759389889003532/971670961818570762/image.png
07:13:33FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Atleast i think this is proper
07:14:32PMunch@Elegantbeef, this should make it a bit more clear: http://ix.io/3X0W/nim
07:15:02PMunchAs you can see the pings stop after you hit enter the first time, because the program is now blocking on the stdin.readLine of the second handler
07:16:01FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Ah i see
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07:20:41PMunchOne such event handler shouldn't really trigger all callbacks, but I'm not sure what would happen if you didn't exhaust the handle
07:20:57PMunchMaybe it doesn't trigger a second read. I think it does, at least on POSIX..
07:27:48PMunchHmm, strange
07:28:01PMunchThere is actually a check for this in asyncdispatch
07:28:31PMunchAh, but only if the callback wants to be called again
07:28:34PMunchInteresting
07:29:42PMunchCan confirm, if I don't remove the callback it works fine. That sounds like a bug
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07:57:02FromDiscord<FireLite> How can I get a process name with dll? (Need to check if it is in the right process)
07:57:41FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Does `dll` imply windows?
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08:05:42FromDiscord<FireLite> Yes, a dll for windows app
08:07:24FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> use winim if you arent and you should be able to use `getCurrentProcessID`
08:08:23FromDiscord<Zectbumo> would someone explain to me why this doesn't work:↵proc `x`(a,b:int): string = $(ab)↵echo 9 x 6
08:08:38FromDiscord<Zectbumo> (edit) "`x`(a,b:int):" => "``x``(a,b:int):"
08:08:56FromDiscord<Zectbumo> (edit) "``x``(a,b:int):" => "`x`(a,b:int):"
08:08:58FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Nim doesnt have arbitrary unicode operators
08:09:26FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> https://nim-lang.org/docs/manual.html#lexical-analysis-unicode-operators
08:09:31FromDiscord<Zectbumo> it works if I use @ or something else
08:09:44FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> `@` isnt unicode
08:10:01FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Well it is but yea 😄
08:10:14FromDiscord<Zectbumo> 😕
08:10:53FromDiscord<FireLite> In reply to @Elegantbeef "use winim if you": What about name? PID is not the same every time.↵And is there docs for winim?
08:11:12FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> You use the PID to get the name
08:11:18FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> What's the problem Zect?
08:11:40FromDiscord<Zectbumo> I get error:↵missing parameter: b↵expression: x 6
08:12:13FromDiscord<Zectbumo> so it looks like it's trying to do a single parameter proc call
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08:12:47FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Wait that's an ascii x?
08:12:54FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> I thought that was a unicode x
08:13:03FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Characters are not used as operators
08:13:13FromDiscord<Zectbumo> I tried to do backtick x backtick but discord takes it as code
08:13:17FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> https://nim-lang.org/docs/manual.html#lexical-analysis-operators
08:13:56FromDiscord<Zectbumo> but this works:↵proc `z`(a:int): string = $(-a)↵echo z 6
08:14:17FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> command syntax
08:14:21FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> https://nim-lang.org/docs/manual.html#procedures-command-invocation-syntax
08:14:28FromDiscord<Zectbumo> lol
08:14:50FromDiscord<Zectbumo> why not make it consistent?
08:14:57PMunchIt is consistent
08:15:01FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> What?
08:15:06FromDiscord<Zectbumo> just make x (int,int) work and x(int) work as expected
08:15:15PMunchThey do work as expected
08:15:24PMunchNeither x nor z are operators in your case
08:15:35FromDiscord<Zectbumo> but sometimes they are
08:15:40PMunchYou can call `z 6` the same way you can call `x 6, 7`
08:16:02PMunchBut you can't put functions in-between it's operators
08:16:12PMunchWell, unless you do `6.x 7`
08:16:44FromDiscord<FireLite> In reply to @Elegantbeef "You use the PID": Is there a docs for winim? I can't find it.
08:17:05FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> There are primitive docs but it's mostly just "Use windows docs its the same"
08:21:19FromDiscord<Zectbumo> oh proc `x` is the same as proc x the backticks doesn't make it an operator
08:21:48FromDiscord<Zectbumo> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=
08:22:35PMunchZectbumo, correct
08:22:53PMunchThe backticks are only used to create identifiers that would otherwise not be valid
08:22:58FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> backticks are just lexical stropping
08:23:00FromDiscord<Zectbumo> I see how my question was off now
08:23:16PMunch@Elegantbeef comes in here with his long fancy words
08:23:20FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Yea i at first thought that was a unicode x cause it kinda looked that way
08:23:31PMunchZectbumo, no worries, easy mistake to make
08:24:51FromDiscord<Zectbumo> so what determines an "operator"? some set of ascii characters?
08:25:07FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Click one of my links
08:25:22PMunchZectbumo, yes, there is a subset of characters that comprises operators
08:25:35PMunch@Elegantbeef shared the link to the relevant part of the documentation twice
08:26:07PMunchHmm, why doesn't line 11 work here? https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=3X1g
08:26:09ArrrrrrrDoes any other language allows this much flexibility other than nim? https://nim-lang.org/docs/manual.html#syntax-precedence
08:26:14FromDiscord<Zectbumo> right... it actually spells this out 😛
08:26:16ArrrrrrrWhen it comes to operators
08:26:20PMunchYou can call echo like that..
08:26:53FromDiscord<Zectbumo> at some point I have to stop asking questions and read
08:27:30PMunchArrrrrrr, those are kinda weird tbh
08:28:03ArrrrrrrMaybe is too much freedom.
08:28:29PMunchOh don't get me wrong, I enjoy the freedom. But those operator precedence rules are a bit weird
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08:28:40PMunchI think most people just picks one they think looks good
08:28:56FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> I enjoy the freedom until someone tells me `%` means `toJson` 😛
08:29:06ArrrrrrrWeird because is hard to understand, or too picky?
08:29:59PMunchArrrrrrr, mostly that it is so opinionated. And "an operator ending with ->", are we expected to have operators like /=->?
08:30:17FromDiscord<Zectbumo> I just learned about %, why those two characters?
08:30:30ArrrrrrrThat's my "divide and assign, then return" operator yes.
08:30:32PMunchThey weren't used for anything else :P
08:30:48PMunchArrrrrrr, haha, fair enough
08:31:11PMunchZectbumo, @Elegantbeef got a better operator symbol for "toJson"?
08:31:33Arrrrrrrit is also the interpolate this array sym
08:31:34NimEventerNew post on r/nim by miran1: Nim 1.6.6 released, see https://reddit.com/r/nim/comments/uisucs/nim_166_released/
08:31:56FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Yea you're not going to believe this you actually can write words with your keyboard i was thinking `asJson` or something readable
08:32:16FromDiscord<Yardanico> isn't it an operator so you don't need parens
08:32:25FromDiscord<Yardanico> and no spaces
08:33:02FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Yet a sane person uses a space
08:33:49FromDiscord<Zectbumo> if I'm never going to use ' to make chars then can I make ' do strings instead?
08:34:00FromDiscord<Rika> No
08:34:02PMunch@Elegantbeef, I tend to not use spaces with %*
08:34:22PMunch@Elegantbeef, and you can just call toJson can't you?
08:35:46FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Pmunch i was making a joke, calm..... breath in and out
08:38:13PMunchI was actually curious :P
08:42:28FromDiscord<dom96> Jokes? This ain’t a comedy club :p
08:43:03FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Shit then why are you here? You're the biggest joke in these parts.
08:44:08PMunchOh hi dom96, did you see my async issue I had earlier today?
08:44:18PMunchJust wondering if you had any input :)
08:44:39FromDiscord<dom96> In reply to @Elegantbeef "Shit then why are": feeling welcome in the Nim community intensifies /s
08:46:28FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Hey people mostly say the nim community is nice after my messages, coincidence i think not
08:46:31FromDiscord<enthus1ast> can imagine that some do not understand the written jokes and take them for grant, think of the asperger's among us.
08:46:34PMunchI think it was a poor attempt at a joke..
08:48:01FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Well then i should be given the boot
08:48:36PMunchHere you go 🥾
08:49:01FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Can always count on you
08:49:19PMunchHappy to help :P
08:50:09PMunchHmm, for some reason after I updated Firefox I can't control the audio of YouTube videos any longer
08:50:17PMunchEven muting them does nothing
08:50:31FromDiscord<enthus1ast> updates are evil
08:51:11FromDiscord<enthus1ast> Have you done the default IT Servicedesk steps? 1. Check Cables↵ 2. Restart↵ 3. Update
08:51:16FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> It's apart of googles ploy to deafen it's userbase
08:53:09FromDiscord<dom96> In reply to @Elegantbeef "Hey people mostly say": If you call anyone that disagrees a joke not many will be left to disagree. But you know, I was making a joke too :)
08:53:30FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> What the fuck are you on about
08:53:34FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> I responded with a joke to your counter joke
08:53:44PMunch@enthus1ast, not yet I'm still on step 0. Complain
08:54:15FromDiscord<enthus1ast> I understand that you have an Issue with you'r audio, in Firefox.↵(<@709044657232936960_=50=4dunch=5b=49=52=43=5d>)
08:55:11PMunch@enthus1ast, huh?
08:57:53FromDiscord<Rika> Same I didn’t understand what you meant
08:58:08FromDiscord<dom96> In reply to @Elegantbeef "I responded with a": Whatever you say
08:59:05FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Cant tell if you sicnerely think i have some reason to insult you
09:01:36PMunchHmm, if I add a check before my readLine I think it will fix my current issue with async
09:02:33PMunchBut I think maybe I should perhaps track a flag and register/unregister the file handle entirely if I don't have any events I wait for
09:02:55PMunchIs there a way to check if a handle is registered in the async dispatcher?
09:03:21PMunchAh, contains
09:03:48FromDiscord<Zectbumo> sent a code paste, see https://paste.rs/3JU
09:04:08FromDiscord<Zectbumo> % format and meaning "all" -- very cool
09:04:25FromDiscord<dom96> PMunch: I haven’t read the discussion above yet. But do have a look at how the recv calls are implemented in async dispatch
09:04:43FromDiscord<dom96> Should be the best example for how to use addRead
09:08:16FromDiscord<Zectbumo> In reply to @Elegantbeef "Cant tell if you": will smith come after you now
09:09:13FromDiscord<Zectbumo> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrAgaULqGOY
09:09:22FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> But i didnt say jada
09:09:39FromDiscord<Rika> You just did
09:09:43FromDiscord<Rika> Ready yo ass
09:09:49FromDiscord<Zectbumo> KEEP MY WIFES NAME...
09:10:11PMunchdom96, hmm recv looks complicated
09:11:01FromDiscord<dom96> Happy to help explain it. What doesn’t make sense?
09:11:10PMunchThe problem here is that I can only call `io_process` from the C library, and then I have registered a callback in the C library which completes the futures in a table
09:12:41PMunchSo I guess I just need to keep track of how many outstanding futures I have, if that number reaches 0 I unregister the handle and the readers
09:12:45PMunchOr something like that
09:14:30FromDiscord<dom96> It should be fine to keep them registered. What is the fd and what operations are you implementing on it?
09:14:59FromDiscord<hmmm> aaa I can't remember if I installed nim manually or with choosenim
09:15:14FromDiscord<Zectbumo> okay, so `%{"foo": 5, "bar": 4}` is the shorthand. what is the long hand version that the docs are referring to?↵"""macro `%`(x: untyped): untyped↵Convert an expression to a JsonNode directly, without having to specify % for every element."""
09:15:16FromDiscord<hmmm> apparently choosenim is not in my path
09:15:39FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> The long hand is to manually insert `%` before each entry
09:15:47FromDiscord<dom96> In reply to @hmmm "apparently choosenim is not": Does ~/.choosenim exist?
09:15:52FromDiscord<hmmm> I'll check
09:16:08PMunchdom96, it's a handle exposed by the COAP library. It's just used as a signal that you can call io_process. And io_process doesn't return anything, it just calls a callback for each item it processes
09:16:16FromDiscord<hmmm> yea it does
09:16:26FromDiscord<hmmm> but for some reason it's not in the path
09:16:48FromDiscord<Zectbumo> In reply to @Elegantbeef "The long hand is": I can't get it to work: ↵`{%"foo": %5, %"bar": %4}` returns `[("foo", 5), ("bar", 4)]`
09:17:05FromDiscord<dom96> You don’t put the % on the key
09:17:31FromDiscord<hmmm> lol apparently I'm still on 1.6.2
09:17:49FromDiscord<Zectbumo> In reply to @dom96 "You don’t put the": okay `{"foo": %5, "bar": %4}` still returns `[("foo", 5), ("bar", 4)]`
09:17:49PMunchZectbumo, long version `%{"foo": 5, "bar": 4}`
09:18:08PMunchYou need % to turn that into a JsonNode
09:18:22FromDiscord<dom96> And then you need the % before {
09:18:55FromDiscord<Zectbumo> I feel like a baby that backed into a corner and doesn't know why I can't go backwards anymore
09:19:14FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Macros are a hell of a drug, they make the room into a circle
09:19:37FromDiscord<Zectbumo> In reply to @PMunch "<@157415492812800000>, long version `%{"foo":": `%{"foo": 5, "bar": 4}` returns `Error: type mismatch: got <(string, int)>`
09:20:00PMunchBecause you didn't add `%` on the inner keys
09:20:02FromDiscord<Zectbumo> can someone tell me the long version please
09:20:25PMunchBy the way, this is why not prepending it with % returns a tuple https://nim-lang.org/docs/manual.html#statements-and-expressions-table-constructor
09:20:29PMunchZectbumo, I already did..
09:20:53FromDiscord<Zectbumo> In reply to @PMunch "Because you didn't add": you mean values, got it
09:20:56FromDiscord<Zectbumo> phew!
09:21:02FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> It's for nested structures
09:21:20FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> If you have nested `{}` you'd need to `%` each
09:21:20PMunch!eval %{"foo":": `%{"foo": 5, "bar": 4}
09:21:23NimBotCompile failed: /usercode/in.nim(1, 29) Error: closing " expected
09:21:31FromDiscord<Zectbumo> yeah, that I figured. I just couldn't replicate my two entry dict
09:21:42FromDiscord<Zectbumo> or do we call them tables around here?
09:21:46PMunchDamn it, stupid playground not having proper selectinos..
09:22:09PMunch!eval import json; echo %{"foo": %{"foo": %5, "bar": %4}}
09:22:12FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> selectinos arent those trademarked tetris pieces?
09:22:13NimBotCompile failed: {"foo":{"foo":5,"bar":4}}
09:22:49FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> It's not your day
09:22:51FromDiscord<Zectbumo> (edit) "yeah, that I figured. I just couldn't replicate ... my" added "the "long version" for"
09:23:33FromDiscord<dom96> Didn’t that succeed? Lol
09:24:30FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Yea it works just not with the silly nimbot
09:26:54FromDiscord<dom96> Little NimBot does it’s best
09:27:11FromDiscord<hmmm> hey where does the choosnim executable sit typically on windowz?
09:27:57FromDiscord<dom96> In reply to @hmmm "hey where does the": In ~/.nimble/bin
09:28:18FromDiscord<hmmm> ha! it's not there
09:28:35FromDiscord<hmmm> I think I had a manual install on top of a choosenim one
09:28:53FromDiscord<Zectbumo> okay, my question may go deeper than I'm ready for right now, but here it goes...↵can the std/json module provide a json encoded output stream?↵meaning, I feed an undetermined number of objects to an array and it spits out a continuous json encoded stream?
09:29:24FromDiscord<Zectbumo> (edit) "an array" => "a sequence"
09:30:05FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> You mean spit out a string?
09:30:10FromDiscord<Zectbumo> yes
09:30:21FromDiscord<Zectbumo> string stream
09:31:22FromDiscord<Zectbumo> most libraries I've encountered have to parse all of what is fed into memory and can't start spitting out string data until the very end
09:32:33FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Well it's hard to do it partially
09:32:45FromDiscord<Zectbumo> I don't think so
09:32:50FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> It's vastly more complex
09:33:10FromDiscord<Zectbumo> after every complete object it can yield a string
09:33:28FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Well then you can make it do that yourself
09:33:31FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> 😄
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09:33:39FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> I'm tired so i think "Vastly" might be an overstatement 😄
09:33:48FromDiscord<Zectbumo> it's true. I could. once I learn nim
09:34:01FromDiscord<Zectbumo> my hope was that someone already did this
09:34:13FromDiscord<Yardanico> In reply to @Zectbumo "most libraries I've encountered": https://github.com/Araq/packedjson does this I think
09:34:16FromDiscord<Yardanico> or something similar
09:34:42FromDiscord<Zectbumo> yeah, that should be std/
09:34:48FromDiscord<Yardanico> why?
09:34:49FromDiscord<Zectbumo> 😢
09:34:49FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> https://nim-lang.org/docs/json.html#parseJsonFragments.i%2CStream%2Cstring exists apparently
09:34:50FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> But that's backwards 😄
09:36:01FromDiscord<Zectbumo> In reply to @mothumix "why?": why standard? because you don't need to jam everything into memory all the time. and programming in streams is a nice way to go
09:36:56FromDiscord<Zectbumo> In reply to @Elegantbeef "But that's backwards 😄": that's half the battle 😄
09:50:29FromDiscord<Zectbumo> where is the toJson function?
09:52:46FromDiscord<eyecon> jsonutils\: https://nim-lang.org/docs/jsonutils.html#toJson%2CT↵(@Zectbumo)
09:53:11FromDiscord<Zectbumo> two json modules??
09:54:02FromDiscord<Yardanico> In reply to @Zectbumo "two json modules??": they don't do the same stuff
09:55:50FromDiscord<Zectbumo> right, but it doesn't make sense to import json to get parseJson and then import jsonutils to get toJson
10:00:28FromDiscord<Zectbumo> why does `import json` and `import std/json` both work but `import jsonutils` doesn't work
10:00:34FromDiscord<Zectbumo> (edit) "work" => "work?"
10:01:17FromDiscord<Zectbumo> (in playground, in case that matters)
10:21:29PMunchZectbumo, that's because jsonutils is too new
10:21:40PMunchIt was decided to move all the standard library modules into std/
10:22:12PMunchBut to avoid breaking every Nim program that was written before this change modules that existed before the decision can still be imported without std
10:48:35FromDiscord<Phil> Man, going to java from nim is sometimes such a wild ride
10:48:45FromDiscord<Zectbumo> yeah? how so?
10:48:53FromDiscord<Phil> I tend to not use ref types in nim
10:49:27FromDiscord<Phil> So having every object in java be ref-type is so confusing until you've re-acclimitized and remember "yes, this change here does apply also to the core object at place X"
10:51:12FromDiscord<Zectbumo> I don't follow since all references modify the original "core object" (in java)
10:52:08PMunchZectbumo, that's what confuses him. In Nim it's much more normal to use "normal" objects
10:52:16PMunchWhich don't update like that
10:53:31FromDiscord<Zectbumo> oh yeah, @Phil , you may need to know I'm a nim noob right now. so I may not know the difference you are pointing out.
10:54:17FromDiscord<Phil> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=3X1B
10:54:31FromDiscord<Phil> fields is an AcroFields object that lives within the stamper object
10:54:46FromDiscord<Phil> Or rather it's just a reference to the object that lives in stamper
10:55:06FromDiscord<Phil> So you can manipulate fields and all the changes will also be in the object that is within stamper, because they're the same object
10:55:15FromDiscord<Phil> Which can do very funky things when you don't expect it
10:55:55FromDiscord<Phil> in nim, you tend to use value-type objects. Which means, the "getAcroFields" wouldn't give you a reference to the object within stamper, it would give you a copy
10:56:08FromDiscord<Zectbumo> ah
10:56:20FromDiscord<Phil> And that would mean changes in fields do not apply to the thing in stamper
10:56:22FromDiscord<Zectbumo> now what if you wanted the reference?
10:56:33FromDiscord<Phil> you can just write ref objects
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10:57:01FromDiscord<Phil> I'd need to look up the exact syntax but it's something like `type Bla = Ref object of RootObj` or sth
10:57:16FromDiscord<Phil> You see I rarely use that in nim
10:57:28FromDiscord<Zectbumo> interesting. I'll look that up. thx
10:57:30FromDiscord<Phil> (edit) "You ... seehow" added "can" | "cansee ... Iwhen" added "how" | "seehowI rarely use that in nim ... " added "when I can't even recall the syntax"
10:57:47FromDiscord<Zectbumo> https://nim-lang.org/docs/manual.html#types-reference-and-pointer-types
10:58:01PMunchYes it's just `ref object`
10:58:14PMunch`ref object of RootObj` is used to make a type you can inherit from
10:58:32PMunchWorks with `object of RootObj` as well of course
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11:02:39FromDiscord<Phil> Is there actually a technical benefit for using value-objects?
11:02:52FromDiscord<Phil> I mean, it makes code nicer imo because it forces you to write less side-effect-y
11:03:08PMunchData being more local
11:03:22FromDiscord<Zectbumo> it is so cool that you can: typeof x or typeof(x) or type_of(x) or typeOf x ... I'm liking nim
11:03:24PMunchHaving to jump around on the heap can be quite punishing on caches
11:03:51PMunchZectbumo, yeah Nim has a very flexible syntax :)
11:03:55FromDiscord<Phil> Ohhh you're more likely to make good usage of cache?
11:04:11FromDiscord<Phil> Given that good caching is one of the best ways to get insanely fast, me likey
11:04:13PMunch@Phil, well it depends
11:04:56FromDiscord<Zectbumo> who do I talk to for suggestions to changes of the language?
11:04:57PMunchBut yeah, if you just pass objects around on the stack (and Nim optimizes your object passing with pointers to the stack objects) it is likely that objects are placed closed to other related data
11:05:07PMunchSo you might get better cache performance
11:05:29PMunchBut as with everything cache related it is very scenario dependent
11:05:43PMunchZectbumo, depends on how big the change is
11:06:08PMunchA good place right now be this forum topic: https://forum.nim-lang.org/t/9132
11:06:45PMunchThere are also RFCs and issues on GitHub
11:08:00FromDiscord<Zectbumo> small, I think? it is unused syntax to do 'my string' (`missing closing ' for character literal`) and doing string with single quote is so nice. so my idea is 'x' stays a char but 'my string' is a string
11:09:08FromDiscord<Zectbumo> it seems nim is so generous in this sense and here it's so strict
11:09:23FromDiscord<Phil> Yeh but how do you separate between the string "a"
11:09:27FromDiscord<Phil> and the character 'a'
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11:09:52FromDiscord<Zectbumo> ? they are separate "a" is \0 terminated and 'a' is not
11:10:03PMunchNim has quite relaxed syntax, but very strict types.
11:10:20FromDiscord<Zectbumo> yes, I like that. and I want to keep that. 'sth' is a string type 😄
11:10:36FromDiscord<Zectbumo> 'h' is a char
11:10:46FromDiscord<Phil> Hmm I'd say it turns into "now you need to know this gotcha" scenario
11:10:59PMunchWhat would you do with '\p' then?
11:11:03FromDiscord<Phil> That 'a ' now becomes a fundamentally different type then 'a'
11:11:18PMunch\p is "platform specific newline" aka. LF on Linux and CRLF on windows
11:11:35PMunchNow '\p' is a character on one platform, and a string on another
11:12:16FromDiscord<Zectbumo> In reply to @PMunch "What would you do": easy, string, since it can't be a char
11:12:35FromDiscord<Zectbumo> basically it's: can it be a char? no, then string
11:14:39PMunchBut on Linux it's a char
11:14:47PMunchIt's just a single newline character on Linux
11:15:19FromDiscord<Zectbumo> yeah, but nim doesn't allow that as a char anyway. it's mentioned in the tutorial
11:15:45FromDiscord<Zectbumo> because it can be length 2 on some platforms so \p can never be a char
11:17:29FromDiscord<Zectbumo> https://nim-lang.org/docs/manual.html#lexical-analysis-character-literals
11:17:40FromDiscord<Zectbumo> "with one exception: the platform dependent newline (\p) is not allowed as it may be wider than one character"
11:18:48FromDiscord<Zectbumo> here's a question, what is empty single quotes? '' ↵well, it's not a char, so empty string!
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11:21:10FromDiscord<SirElephant> is there any way to play audio in the terminal using nim?
11:21:24FromDiscord<SirElephant> like playsound for python and rodio for rust?
11:21:59PMunchSo '' is a string, 'a' is a char and 'ab' is a string? That just sounds super confusing..
11:22:53FromDiscord<Zectbumo> In reply to @PMunch "<@157415492812800000>, depends on how": do you think the forum would be the right place for this? @dom96 said "Please also be sure to focus on ideas that require breaking changes to the language/stdlib or similar. Not general improvements that can be made at any Nim version."
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11:23:26FromDiscord<Zectbumo> In reply to @PMunch "So '' is a": not really right? because right now 'ab' is a syntax error
11:23:59PMunch@SirElephant, there is probably something in here you can use: https://nimble.directory/search?query=sound
11:24:05FromDiscord<Zectbumo> (edit) "error" => "error, and so is ''"
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11:26:07FromDiscord<Zectbumo> In reply to @PMunch "So '' is a": but if it makes the community feel better, I'm willing to sacrifice the empty string and have the rule be length > 1
11:26:12FromDiscord<Rika> In reply to @Zectbumo "not really right? because": I mean with your proposed change it is like that
11:26:23PMunchYeah that's what I meant
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11:26:34FromDiscord<Rika> I think it’s unnecessary…
11:26:48PMunchThe forum post should be fine for this yeah, it's a breaking change. At least kind of
11:27:18FromDiscord<Zectbumo> it's unnecessary, yes, because it's a developer UX feature request
11:27:38FromDiscord<Zectbumo> In reply to @PMunch "The forum post should": is it though?
11:28:04FromDiscord<Zectbumo> 0% of code right now will break if my idea is implemented
11:28:10FromDiscord<Zectbumo> exactly 0%
11:28:58FromDiscord<Zectbumo> I'll post it. what's the worst thing that could happen 😛
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11:30:42FromDiscord<Rika> In reply to @Zectbumo "it's unnecessary, yes, because": I think it doesn’t bring anything to the table, there
11:30:44FromDiscord<Rika> Better wording
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11:34:23FromDiscord<Zectbumo> oh but I do. a lot actually. bouncing between shifting keys when coding is not ideal. keeping the use of shift key to a minimum is a plus in my book
11:35:23PMunchZectbumo, some macros might depend on '' not compiling :P
11:35:38FromDiscord<Zectbumo> interesting
11:36:03FromDiscord<Zectbumo> then... it's a breaking change! yay 😉
11:36:26FromDiscord<Zectbumo> see you in nimv2 😄
11:39:23FromDiscord<SirElephant> sent a long message, see http://ix.io/3X1H
11:39:41FromDiscord<SirElephant> (edit) "http://ix.io/3X1H" => "http://ix.io/3X1I"
11:42:21PMunch@SirElephant, did you have a look at the tests and common.nim as the README suggests?
11:42:30FromDiscord<SirElephant> In reply to @PMunch "<@856412455507984404>, did you have": ye
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11:44:50PMunchI seem to remember that there was a small library out there to just play sound files
11:44:54PMunchBut I can't find it..
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12:15:13FromDiscord<SirElephant> https://github.com/jiro4989/wave ↵========================↵Is this the one?
12:15:41FromDiscord<SirElephant> In reply to @PMunch "But I can't find": https://github.com/jiro4989/wave ↵========================↵Is this the one?
12:16:24PMunchPlease don't pad your own messages with ====, just makes the channel harder to read..
12:16:53PMunchI don't think it was that one, but it might've been
12:16:57FromDiscord<SirElephant> In reply to @PMunch "Please don't pad your": sory
12:17:05FromDiscord<SirElephant> thought it looked go
12:17:09PMunchI might also be mis-remembering
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12:28:58FromDiscord<Rika> In reply to @SirElephant "thought it looked good": Not for those in IRC since they don’t have line breaks
12:31:26PMunchEven in Discord/Matrix, those messages could've both been a single line
12:32:45FromDiscord<Rika> Most here would say that they’d prefer two
12:34:47PMunchWhy would you want two lines when one line suffices?
12:40:59FromDiscord<Zoom> One thing I love Matrix for is markdown support, specifically for technical chats like this one. Being able write a [proper link](https://youtu.be/dQw4w9WgXcQ) is great.
12:45:56FromDiscord<Rika> In reply to @PMunch "Why would you want": Because it doesn’t suffice for me
12:46:01FromDiscord<Rika> Visual separation
13:02:32PMunchHmm, another issue with the compiler not being easily built by people who don't install via choosenim: https://github.com/PMunch/ratel/issues/12
13:02:57PMunchThat the compiler tries to read `../doc/` should probably be considered a bug..
13:15:42FromDiscord<Yardanico> btw, if someone's curious about the nim binary that AVs hate the most in the nim distribution
13:15:52FromDiscord<Yardanico> it's nimgrab.exe, and I assume it's because it uses some urlmon.dll APIs on Windows
13:15:55FromDiscord<Yardanico> https://www.virustotal.com/gui/file/f266609e91985f0fe3e31c5e8faeeec4ffa5e0322d8b6f15fe69f4c5165b9559
13:15:57FromDiscord<Yardanico> 18/68
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13:37:53PMunchI wonder what we could do to try and fix this
13:38:04PMunchCould we contact the virus vendors somehow?
13:44:08FromDiscord<Yardanico> In reply to @PMunch "Could we contact the": yeah, but again, it's really weird
13:44:18FromDiscord<Yardanico> i compiled that binary myself with my tdm-gcc, and virustotal only showed 3 detections
13:44:24FromDiscord<Yardanico> (edit) removed "my"
13:46:24PMunchMaybe Nim for Windows should be built with the Go GC and compiled via the Zig compiler :P
13:49:40FromDiscord<Yardanico> nim.exe gets 0 detections, it's nimgrab specifically :)
13:49:52FromDiscord<Yardanico> one my theory is that AVs really don't like the usage of urlmon by nimgrab
13:51:32PMunchHmm, interesting
13:51:47PMunchWhat about finish.exe? I think that's one of the ones that causes trouble
13:51:51FromDiscord<Zoom> We'll probably have more luck "writing to our representative congressmen" \:-/↵(<@709044657232936960_=50=4dunch=5b=49=52=43=5d>)
13:52:55FromDiscord<Yardanico> In reply to @PMunch "What about finish.exe? I": nope, just 2 detections
13:59:29PMunchHmm, I kinda want to make a library out of this https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=3X2l
14:00:22PMunchSo many times I've wanted to add logging to a procedure, and I end up logging multiple lines just so I have context when something goes wrong. But if nothing goes wrong I don't want anything logged
14:00:42PMunchCombine this with log levels (that can only be increased) and voila
14:01:12PMunchMaybe I'll just merge this with superlog and build a proper library out of that
14:01:49PMunchUnfortunately reasoning about modules is suprisingly tricky in Nim
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14:09:04FromDiscord<Zoom> Interesting idea. How usable is a log from a single proc, though?
14:10:32FromDiscord<Zoom> Ah, you probably mean to be adding proc-local logs to a global only on exception... Nice
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14:15:11NimEventerNew post on r/nim by mavavilj: Most promising library for drawing from random distributions (2022)?, see https://reddit.com/r/nim/comments/uiyea1/most_promising_library_for_drawing_from_random/
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14:47:29FromDiscord<soundmodel> Could someone explain to me this thing in the alea lib (I'm new to Nim)? I'm reading https://github.com/andreaferretti/alea/blob/b2019665a989a8e707a5253d23625072268f49aa/alea/rng.nim#L27, and then I am reading https://github.com/andreaferretti/alea/blob/b2019665a989a8e707a5253d23625072268f49aa/alea/core.nim#L39. I saw that randomInt was supposed to have two args, but only one is provided in the latter. So am I missing something?
14:48:04FromDiscord<Yardanico> In reply to @soundmodel "Could someone explain to": Nim has method call syntax, so `a.b()` is the same as `b(a)`
14:48:20FromDiscord<Yardanico> In your example `rng.randomInt(d.values[].len)` means `randomInt(rng, d.values[].len)`
14:48:41FromDiscord<Yardanico> Nim doesn't have any specific class stuff regarding routines, it's all resolved by method call syntax (also called UFCS)
14:49:37FromDiscord<Yardanico> it's explained in the second tutorial: https://nim-lang.org/docs/tut2.html#object-oriented-programming-method-call-syntax
14:54:39FromDiscord<tsoj> Choosenim doesn't work for me anymore. When I use it, it just hangs forever. Anybody else have any issues like this?
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15:17:55FromDiscord<dom96> try passing `--debug` to see what it gets stuck on
15:19:16FromDiscord<undel> In reply to @mothumix "it's nimgrab.exe, and I": By any chance is the URLDownloadToFile API used?
15:19:39FromDiscord<Yardanico> In reply to @-|- "By any chance is": yes
15:20:05FromDiscord<Yardanico> is it something used by viruses so often AVs detect it, even if it's just a windows API?
15:21:27FromDiscord<undel> In reply to @mothumix "is it something used": Yep
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15:21:37FromDiscord<undel> I used it in a program and AVs instantly flagged it
15:21:58FromDiscord<undel> you could have a program that's just `int main() { return URLDownloadToFileA(); }` and it's flagged
15:22:18FromDiscord<undel> That API is effectively toxic now as it was often used by malware droppers to fetch the main payload
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15:34:15FromDiscord<tsoj> @dom96 it's stuck at `Http Requesting http://nim-lang.org/channels/stable` but the weird thing is that it works from a virtual machine, but not with a clean install on another real machine. could be unrelated to choosenim
15:46:07FromDiscord<dom96> does requesting it via `curl` work?
15:53:50FromDiscord<tsoj> `curl http://nim-lang.org/channels/stable -o file` works fine as far as I can see.
15:54:55FromDiscord<tsoj> Just noticed, it doesn't hang forever, it just takes very very long (like 10 minutes to half an hour).
15:56:35FromDiscord<dom96> what OS are you on? Linux?
15:59:05FromDiscord<dom96> looks like this is the code path: https://github.com/dom96/choosenim/blob/master/src/choosenimpkg/download.nim#L397
15:59:34FromDiscord<dom96> possibly something wrong with httpclient. Do you have a proxy set up via the typical env vars?
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16:18:26FromDiscord<Entikan> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=3X33
16:20:29FromDiscord<Entikan> nimraylib_now
16:20:30FromDiscord<Yardanico> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=3X36
16:22:13FromDiscord<Yardanico> In reply to @Entikan "nimraylib_now": it has Color as an object, and then converters to convert tuples to that Color object
16:22:23FromDiscord<Yardanico> I guess the converter isn't being called in this case
16:22:33FromDiscord<Yardanico> you can call it with `tupleToColor` yourself explicitly
16:23:19FromDiscord<Entikan> ah
16:23:24FromDiscord<Entikan> what is this called?
16:23:27FromDiscord<aph> or maybe use another syntax, probably `Color(r: 123, g: 234, b: 255)` probably
16:23:32FromDiscord<aph> (edit) removed "probably"
16:23:36FromDiscord<aph> not sure though
16:24:11FromDiscord<Yardanico> In reply to @aph "or maybe use another": yes that'd work too
16:24:12FromDiscord<aph> (edit) "or maybe use another syntax, probably `Color(r: 123, g: 234, b: 255)` ... " added "(constructs a color object i think)"
16:24:20FromDiscord<Entikan> doii
16:24:23FromDiscord<Entikan> it does
16:24:30FromDiscord<aph> good to know i ain't wrong
16:25:05FromDiscord<Entikan> thanks
16:32:39FromDiscord<tsoj> sent a long message, see http://ix.io/3X3c
16:36:06FromDiscord<dom96> In reply to @tsoj "Yes, Linux (Manjaro Gnome).": https://github.com/dom96/choosenim/blob/master/src/choosenimpkg/utils.nim#L101
16:45:12FromDiscord<tsoj> Oh okay, I don't use any proxy.
16:47:36FromDiscord<dom96> interesting, then there may be some bug in httpclient. If this is reproducible for you it would be great if you could compile an app that downloads that page to see if it fails as well, and then maybe we could debug together to find the cause.
16:48:52FromDiscord<Yardanico> In reply to @tsoj "Oh okay, I don't": can you try doing `echo $http_proxy` and `echo $https_proxy` in the terminal?
16:51:00FromDiscord<Yardanico> and see if it outputs a non-empty string
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16:55:48FromDiscord<tsoj> `echo "<"$https_proxy">"` outputs `<>`, same with http, so I guess it is empty. When I have time I will try what you're suggesting @dom96
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18:24:35FromDiscord<jmgomez> Hey guys, system.io is not available at compile time. I want to append things to a file at compile time, what should I use?
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18:34:15FromDiscord<Prestige> I don't know if there's an answer, but why do you want to be changing files while compiling the code?
18:36:22FromDiscord<jmgomez> long story short Im emitting Nim code as a wrapper from a dynlib to another dynlib that cant be used directly (due to it being hooked by the host app) so I dont have to write the same function twice
18:37:50FromDiscord<jmgomez> I think you can execute cmds, maybe that does the trick from what I want to do but not sure if exec is available outside of nimscript?
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18:38:02FromDiscord<jmgomez> (edit) "from" => "for"
18:38:51FromDiscord<Prestige> There's https://nim-lang.org/docs/os.html#execShellCmd%2Cstring which may be the same
18:40:04FromDiscord<jmgomez> sent a code paste, see https://paste.rs/EN4
18:40:07FromDiscord<jmgomez> 😦
18:42:50FromDiscord<jmgomez> Just tried exec (inside of system.script) and it didnt work neither
18:44:09FromDiscord<jmgomez> Oh there is also staticExec
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18:50:25FromDiscord<Recruit_main707> i create a tiny nim program, compile it to an exe, and then use execshellcmd with it
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18:51:45FromDiscord<Recruit_main707> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=3X3Q
18:54:06FromDiscord<Recruit_main707> actually used gorge instead of execshellcmd, i think there was a reason but i dont remember already https://nim-lang.org/docs/system.html#gorge%2Cstring%2Cstring%2Cstring
18:54:56FromDiscord<soundmodel> sent a long message, see http://ix.io/3X3R
18:55:07FromDiscord<soundmodel> (edit) "http://ix.io/3X3R" => "http://ix.io/3X3S"
18:55:16FromDiscord<soundmodel> (edit) "http://ix.io/3X3S" => "http://ix.io/3X3T"
18:56:14FromDiscord<Prestige> Can you use choosenim instead?
18:56:30FromDiscord<soundmodel> (edit) "http://ix.io/3X3T" => "http://ix.io/3X3U"
18:56:31FromDiscord<soundmodel> (edit) "http://ix.io/3X3U" => "http://ix.io/3X3V"
18:56:46FromDiscord<soundmodel> In reply to @Avahe "Can you use choosenim": Possibly, but this is not the primary method for OpenSuse.
18:57:07FromDiscord<Prestige> Or any distro really, but it's been the best solution for me personally
18:57:25FromDiscord<soundmodel> In reply to @Avahe "Or any distro really,": and choosenim is not in YaST
18:57:29FromDiscord<Prestige> Seems like none of the distros package nim correctly or keep it up to date
18:57:47FromDiscord<Prestige> I just do this: https://github.com/dom96/choosenim#unix
19:02:38FromDiscord<soundmodel> In reply to @Avahe "I just do this:": Okay so I actually got nim 1.6.6 in my system under ~/.nimble/bin
19:03:14FromDiscord<soundmodel> In reply to @soundmodel "Okay so I actually": but doing nimble install distributions gives me Unsatisfied dependency: nim (>= 1.4.6)
19:03:22FromDiscord<soundmodel> (edit) "Unsatisfied" => "`Unsatisfied" | "1.4.6)" => "1.4.6)`"
19:03:29FromDiscord<Prestige> You need to get ~/.nimble/bin into your PATH
19:03:43FromDiscord<Prestige> (edit) "PATH" => "$PATH"
19:04:09FromDiscord<soundmodel> In reply to @Avahe "You need to get": I wonder where this .nimble folder is from
19:04:35FromDiscord<Prestige> From choosenim, if you just installed it
19:04:49FromDiscord<soundmodel> why does it put it there
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19:05:08FromDiscord<soundmodel> In reply to @Avahe "From choosenim, if you": why does it put it there? When snap and YaST put it elsewhere
19:05:35FromDiscord<Prestige> Would have to ask @dom96 why he put it there (I think he's responsible for that?)
19:07:32FromDiscord<soundmodel> In reply to @Avahe "Would have to ask": also, I put this to the $PATH, and it still complains
19:08:15FromDiscord<Prestige> What's your output of `~/.nimble/bin/nim --version` and `nim --version` ?
19:09:08FromDiscord<dom96> In reply to @Avahe "Would have to ask": Because that’s where Nimble installs packages by default so you only need to add one folder to your PATH
19:09:39FromDiscord<dom96> (edit) "packages" => "packages’ binaries"
19:09:48FromDiscord<soundmodel> sent a long message, see http://ix.io/3X3Z
19:10:14FromDiscord<soundmodel> sent a long message, see https://paste.rs/h7w
19:10:16FromDiscord<UN533N_5PY> It doesn't matter where's it's at really, think of it like a program your user has ownership of↵The package manager installs it systemwide and puts it on path↵Makes sure to set the path↵(@soundmodel)
19:10:51FromDiscord<Prestige> Yeah so you still have `nim` installed @soundmodel by some other means, which is at a lower version. Uninstall it, and make sure ~/.nimble/bin is in your path
19:12:35FromDiscord<d4rckh> When you execute calc.exe from cmd for example, it runs the calculator and the cmd window doesn't get stuck (i can still type commands in it while calc is running), but if I execute calc from Nim, my program does get stuck
19:13:12FromDiscord<soundmodel> In reply to @Avahe "Yeah so you still": Yes, I uninstalled using YaST and put into the path, now it works.
19:13:21FromDiscord<d4rckh> how can I make my program not get stuck when I run the things cmd also doesn't get stuck on?
19:13:35FromDiscord<Prestige> In reply to @soundmodel "Yes, I uninstalled using": Awesome
19:13:41FromDiscord<d4rckh> Does cmd have a list of programs "to run in a separate thread"?
19:17:53FromDiscord<Alea> Ah name a more iconic duo than HN and bitching about case insensitivity on every nim post :sipinteresting:
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19:24:40FromDiscord<dom96> This time I gave them an excuse
19:25:30FromDiscord<eyecon> Can I use the version string in .nimble file as a compile time const somehow?
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19:26:02FromDiscord<eyecon> When `nimble build`ing at least
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19:28:38FromDiscord<soundmodel> anyone know good examples of OO in Nim?
19:29:02FromDiscord<soundmodel> I mean, since it was sold to me as multi-paradigm, then I assumed that it should work as a Java-replacement.
19:29:27FromDiscord<soundmodel> In reply to @soundmodel "anyone know good examples": I mean, since it was sold to me as multi-paradigm, then I assumed that it should work as a Java-replacement.
19:30:29FromDiscord<soundmodel> In reply to @soundmodel "I mean, since it": But possibly this all works out using the type system
19:31:03FromDiscord<Prestige> https://nim-by-example.github.io/oop/ has an example
19:31:30FromDiscord<Prestige> it's not super ergonomic though
19:32:47FromDiscord<dom96> In reply to @eyecon "When `nimble build`ing at": Yes. Nimble defines NimblePkgVersion or something for you (use —debug to see what it passes to Nim)
19:33:25FromDiscord<Prestige> I should write a tiny OOP lib for Nim because I keep having to write boilerplate every time I write what I'd call a "class"
19:34:54FromDiscord<soundmodel> In reply to @Avahe "I should write a": also that seemed far too simple to say "hey Nim is cleaner Java"
19:35:23FromDiscord<Prestige> I wouldn't really say they're comparable
19:35:32FromDiscord<Prestige> But I'd much rather write Nim in any case
19:35:43FromDiscord<soundmodel> In reply to @Avahe "I wouldn't really say": Yes, but surely Nim cannot dismiss the OO paradigm
19:36:01FromDiscord<soundmodel> although I believe it was argued in Python as a "second thought"
19:36:12FromDiscord<soundmodel> but Nim is not interpreted
19:36:44FromDiscord<eyecon> In reply to @dom96 "Yes. Nimble defines NimblePkgVersion": `NimblePkgVersion`, excellent, ty
19:36:45FromDiscord<Prestige> Yeah - it's definitely usable, but we don't have interfaces or abstract classes, essentially
19:37:04FromDiscord<Prestige> If you can get away without OOP with whatever you're working on, you're probably better off
19:37:11FromDiscord<soundmodel> In reply to @Avahe "Yeah - it's definitely": Well as long as someone doesn't find those useful
19:38:40FromDiscord<soundmodel> https://forum.nim-lang.org/t/2422
19:39:03FromDiscord<soundmodel> In reply to @soundmodel "https://forum.nim-lang.org/t/2422": here it seems though that it's possible to emulate a bunch of stuff without it also seeming like it doesn't belong to the language
19:39:24FromDiscord<soundmodel> (edit) "In reply to @soundmodel "https://forum.nim-lang.org/t/2422": here it seems though that it's possible to emulate a bunch of stuff without it also seeming like it doesn't belong to the ... languageB" added "language. Compared to some other horrible cases of "lets emulate" | "language. Compared to some other horrible cases of "lets emulatelanguage ... " added "B using language A" I've seen."
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20:49:50FromDiscord<konsumlamm> when do we tell them about nimVM?
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21:16:54FromDiscord<Prestige> Who?
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21:41:33FromDiscord<tsoj> sent a long message, see http://ix.io/3X4n
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21:43:04FromDiscord<tsoj> The little program that I used looks like this:
21:43:33FromDiscord<tsoj> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=3X4p
21:49:29FromDiscord<Zectbumo> who runs the nim forum? my account is all messed up and I'm getting errors trying to signup
21:49:42FromDiscord<Zectbumo> I tried deleting and now my problem is worse
21:52:28FromDiscord<Zoom> Contact @dom96↵(@Zectbumo)
21:52:38FromDiscord<Zoom> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=3X4r
21:55:01FromDiscord<that_dude> did ya compile with release/danger?
21:55:56FromDiscord<Bubblie> does nim have switch statements
21:56:19FromDiscord<Bubblie> like java C# kotlin
21:56:35FromDiscord<pointystick> https://nim-lang.org/docs/tut1.html#control-flow-statements-case-statement
21:58:05FromDiscord<Bubblie> can the case statement also deal with object comparisons
22:02:09FromDiscord<Bubblie> also how good are nim threads
22:02:15FromDiscord<Zoom> Of course. With flto too (my default for danger), but that doesn't affect the Nim\>C stage of course↵(@that_dude)
22:02:20FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Fuck i feel threatened reading that
22:02:59FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Nim does do dead code elimination but there is no dead code technically here
22:03:11FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Gcc will remove the useless definitions of course
22:03:31FromDiscord<Zoom> Semantically there is.
22:03:56FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Well yea the values are not used, but they're assigned which Nim thinks means they're used
22:04:02FromDiscord<Zoom> `var X = literal` can't have side effects
22:04:33FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> This is the one of only case where the compiler doesnt do dead code elimination
22:04:41FromDiscord<Zoom> So `var x = literal; x = foo` should be tracked and optimized out
22:05:15FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> I mean if we did value tracking life would be better
22:05:47FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> the C compiler will probably remove it so it's a moot point i think, but ymmv
22:05:47FromDiscord<Zoom> I already said it doesn't.
22:06:03FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Oh i thought you meant in the C code mybad
22:06:07FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> I misread
22:06:55FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> You wouldnt buy it's not technically dead code since operations happen and also the string constants are stored in the binary, would you?
22:08:28FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> I wonder if there is a reason for not removing that code, if you abuse the stack it could change the programs behaviour i guess
22:09:17FromDiscord<Zoom> It does with numbers, but it's much much easier to track, as it's just a simple var binding in the C code too, not with strings
22:09:26FromDiscord<Bubblie> is there any reference I can use for nim pointers? Ive been having a hard time trying to learn from the nim docs
22:09:32FromDiscord<Bubblie> sorry if I interrupted
22:09:34FromDiscord<Zoom> The operation should not happen if they have no effects
22:09:37FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> https://www.jasonbeetham.com/pointerexplanation.html#References%20-%20the%20well%20dressed%20pointers
22:09:45FromDiscord<Bubblie> thank you beef
22:10:08FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> It's an ok explanation
22:11:54FromDiscord<Zoom> @Bubblie\: you know there's a guerilla Nim book? https://ssalewski.de/nimprogramming.html#_references_and_pointers
22:12:07FromDiscord<Bubblie> holy shit no I did not
22:12:14FromDiscord<Bubblie> 👀
22:12:34FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> With both writeups you might reason how pointers work
22:12:35FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> It's a joke 😄
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22:12:43FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Yea i dont know what to say this is where i walk away going "Yep i'm just a numpty"
22:16:48FromDiscord<Zoom> Technically, this should lead us to a long and windy language-design discussion of lazy/eager evaluation for which I'm totally unqualified \:(
22:17:10FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Eh i'm unqualified to do anything but write "hello world"
22:19:39FromDiscord<Zoom> C'mon, you're almost praise-whoring by this point
22:19:40FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Hey if i'm not self deprecating who will insult me?!
22:20:08FromDiscord<Bubblie> me
22:20:24FromDiscord<Zoom> You can always go to another channel and ask them nicely, maybe they will
22:20:27FromDiscord<Bubblie> LMAO
22:20:38FromDiscord<Bubblie> "hello sir can you please make fun of me"
22:20:59FromDiscord<Zoom> You'll probably need to provide a bit of shitty code to make them...
22:21:07FromDiscord<Bubblie> ive done that countless times
22:21:10FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> "Now taking CVs for people to insult me"
22:21:42FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> But Zoom praise whoring aside I dont have any qualifications 😛
22:22:21FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Except all of that code i've written
22:22:21FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Shit always the caveat
22:23:08FromDiscord<Zoom> That would be enough for me, but I decide nothing where it would apply...
22:24:58FromDiscord<Zoom> On a serious note. I consider this behaviour a serious deficiency. Especially, considering strong metaprogramming side of Nim - it can generate a lot of code very easily and invisibly to the coder. And it all clutters the binary. I'm interested if the unused assignments actually happen. If they do that's even worse.
22:26:08FromDiscord<Zoom> I wish someone with a bit more brain matter wrote an issue for that.
22:26:18FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Side effect free intialization should be relatively cheap since Nim expands anything it can before it gens C code
22:26:41FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> As you probably noticed your string constants are just static character arrays
22:26:54FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Atleast on Orc/Arc
22:27:00FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> No clue if refc does the same
22:28:52FromDiscord<Bubblie> damn nim clion plugin sucks actual ass ngl
22:28:58FromDiscord<Bubblie> What does the community generally use?
22:29:01FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Also 100% unrelated but i do like this resultant example code 😄 https://forum.nim-lang.org/t/9132#59763
22:29:23FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Yea the only worth wile tool is Saem's vscode or nimlsp
22:29:24FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> worthwhile\
22:32:06FromDiscord<Bubblie> I think I will move to saem's vscode plugin
22:32:17FromDiscord<Bubblie> looks great
22:40:18FromDiscord<dom96> In reply to @tsoj "<@132595483838251008> So I tried": Oooh. Thanks for looking into this. I guess whatever your DNS returns for Google.com cannot be connected to. I wonder if we can set a shorter timeout on that connect call.
22:40:42FromDiscord<dom96> (edit) "In reply to @tsoj "<@132595483838251008> So I tried": Oooh. Thanks for looking into this. I guess whatever your DNS returns for Google.com ... cannot" added "first"
22:46:02FromDiscord<Zoom> Anyone reads asm? https://godbolt.org/z/v84reqEnr It's interesting how the version with globals only is much larger
22:47:04FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Seems it strips them from the procedure method
22:49:12FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Ghidra gives a bit more introspection if you're looking into this
22:50:35FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Though i cannot read ASM so what am i talking about 😄
22:51:28FromDiscord<Zoom> I'll probably stop investigating for now. But initial point stands, it's worth improving on the Nim side as much as possible
22:52:21FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Dont know if you read my silly filter example, but i did redo it using concepts cause fuck yea 😛
22:52:40FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> But anyway i gotta get ready to take my dogs for a walk before they choose violence
22:52:53FromDiscord<Zoom> Mmm? Link?
22:53:07FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> https://forum.nim-lang.org/t/9132#59763 this one
22:53:46FromDiscord<!Patitotective> the `%1 Win32` error was actually a popup saying that `libwinpthread-1.dll` was missing↵https://github.com/xmonader/nimassets/issues/14
22:54:17FromDiscord<Zoom> Ah! Looks great!
22:59:39FromDiscord<Zoom> It's a bit backwards as your new `[]` doesn't take a proc
23:16:12FromDiscord<tsoj> @dom96 I rebooted my router and the problem vanished. In the past I already had a few very weird issues, like ssh server of one machine not working, but every other network service worked, or slowing down the ethernet connection of one specific machine. I should probably do a router restart first, every time I have a network issue now 😛
23:18:20FromDiscord<Zectbumo> sent a long message, see http://ix.io/3X4J
23:28:51FromDiscord<Bubblie> yo the vulkan bindings for nim might be working
23:28:53FromDiscord<Bubblie> lets go
23:29:20FromDiscord<Bubblie> its time to write 800 lines to render a fucking triangle
23:29:36FromDiscord<Bubblie> and then put it on my repo on github
23:29:49FromDiscord<Bubblie> these vulkan nim bindings are great though
23:30:01FromDiscord<Zoom> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=3X4L
23:30:02FromDiscord<Bubblie> I just hope nothing breaks
23:30:08FromDiscord<Bubblie> I say that and that always goes wrong
23:30:17FromDiscord<Bubblie> I jinxed myself
23:32:13FromDiscord<Bubblie> okay so I may need to use quite a lot of unsafe nim for vulkan
23:32:16FromDiscord<Bubblie> https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/836012350934089728/970121091378991174/image0-2.gif
23:32:40FromDiscord<Bubblie> oh embed fail
23:43:17*vicfred joined #nim
23:44:15FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Lambda's suck 😛
23:48:00FromDiscord<Zoom> Less than templates doing same thing
23:56:04FromDiscord<Zoom> OK, I'm done for the night. Help me decide\: Larry Nivel or Paul McKenney?