<<06-12-2012>>

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19:49:10	*	NimBot joined #nimrod
19:49:17	Araq	afaik it is public?
19:49:30	Araq	how can a module be private anyway?
19:49:45	dom96	well, true. I mean, make its docs available?
19:49:57	dom96	get the docgen to build them
19:50:27	Araq	hrm
19:51:10	Araq	the younger Araq may have had reasons to not add it yet
19:57:13	dom96	perhaps younger araq was wrong.
19:57:24	dom96	httpclient module already uses it
19:57:41	Araq	well parsing of URLs is quite some work
19:57:57	Araq	and parseurl is a bare bones implementation
19:58:19	Araq	and gradha will come and moan endlessly about every detail about it
19:58:25	dom96	yes, well I think it's a nice start.
19:58:37	dom96	oh give gradha a break
19:59:05	Araq	he he ;-)
19:59:15	Araq	ok add it, I don't mind
19:59:23	Araq	doesn't use regexes anymore, right?
19:59:34	Araq	don't like the dependency to pcre
20:00:31	dom96	I really doubt it ever used regexes
20:00:41	dom96	Unless younger dom enjoyed using regexes
20:01:05	dom96	What file is it suppose to be added to again?
20:09:24	Araq	tools/web/nimrod.ini
20:10:12	dom96	thanks
20:10:40	dom96	fyi it's web/nimrod.ini :P
20:11:51	Araq	whatever :P
20:55:21	dom96	That's a lot of merges with master.
20:55:32	Araq	sorry
21:07:36	*	Vladar joined #nimrod
21:09:30	Araq	hi Vladar
21:09:58	Araq	made a game with libtcod yet?
21:11:11	Vladar	Hi, Araq. Not yet, but will do, because wrapper need testing yet =)
21:12:28	Araq	test it with a real application ;-)
21:13:19	Vladar	It's a best way of testing )
21:14:18	Vladar	Also, there is Nimrod sub-forum on the libtcod site now: http://doryen.eptalys.net/forum/index.php?board=48.0
21:17:27	Araq	excellent :D
21:27:02	Araq	Vladar: ever tried endb? :D
21:29:05	Vladar	Yes, a little. But mostly I prefer some debug echo in code )
21:31:14	Araq	cool so I didn't break it ;-)
21:31:25	Araq	it's hard to test :P
21:48:56	dom96	Vladar: You think nimgame is ready for ludum dare? :P
21:52:46	Vladar	dom69, depends on a game. I'm pretty easy made asteroids demo on v0.2, now it has a sound module too.
21:54:23	dom96	Vladar: ahh, well I will try my best to use it, although I will probably give up again and not make a game at all.
21:54:27	Vladar	For future nimgame versions I want to add tiles support, more gui elements, etc.
21:56:56	Vladar	dom96, look at that asteroids demo for game structure reference, I'll also provide some support if you will need it =)
21:57:10	dom96	Vladar: Awesome, thanks :D
21:57:30	Araq	dom96: there is now a shallowPath for babel
21:57:58	dom96	Araq: thanks :)
21:58:25	Araq	though maybe we should it call it 'babelPath' from now on
21:59:07	dom96	perhaps
21:59:08	Araq	versioning support is very easy to support if the paths look like project/0.8.2/*
21:59:55	Araq	look at the diff, it's very simple to add what you need, you only need to edit commands.nim
22:00:47	Araq	with version support and --excludePath most things should be easy
22:03:46	dom96	I dunno. I'm having a hard time thinking about this when I'm tired.
22:04:22	Araq	np, just finish babel and announce it
22:04:50	dom96	But, we should involve other people in this discussion definitely.
22:05:50	dom96	So explain fully how you imagine versioning should work.
22:09:35	Araq	babel/jester/0.8.0/*
22:09:42	Araq	babel/jester/0.9.0/*
22:10:00	Araq	--> compiler adds 0.9.0 to its path but not 0.8.0
22:10:28	Araq	however you can --excludePath:babel/jester/0.9.0 to make it use 0.8.0 instead
22:11:33	dom96	so where is the latest version?
22:11:44	dom96	does the compiler determine that?
22:12:46	Araq	yes the compiler knows 0.9.0 > 0.8.0 and is the best version to choose
22:13:28	dom96	hrm, not a bad idea.
22:13:43	dom96	And I only now get what you meant heh
22:14:09	dom96	So we will need to modify the compiler.
22:14:33	dom96	I already wrote a version string comparison module
22:14:39	dom96	So we can simply reuse that
22:14:44	Araq	ok
22:15:10	dom96	but wouldn't it make more sense to have a way to specify the specific version you want?
22:15:22	dom96	Instead of saying "I don't want 0.9.0, but the version before it"
22:15:34	dom96	You won't be able to know for sure that the version before it is the one you want
22:15:53	Araq	*shrug* dunno
22:16:07	dom96	Say you want 0.8.0
22:16:17	dom96	but the user also has 0.8.2 installed
22:16:23	dom96	You do --excludePath:babel/jester/0.9.0
22:16:32	Araq	and you get 0.8.2
22:16:33	dom96	It doesn't use 0.8.0, but 0.8.2
22:16:42	Araq	but that's a feature :P
22:16:49	dom96	how so?
22:17:00	Araq	--excludePath is only for fixing things
22:17:55	Araq	well 0.8.2 is likely to work anyway
22:18:45	dom96	So you leave it to the developer of the app to fix each of the libraries' dependencies that their app depends on?
22:19:08	dom96	i.e. Lib A doesn't work with 0.9.0
22:19:14	Araq	yes
22:19:26	Araq	exactly for now we leave it to the poor developer
22:19:36	dom96	The developer of Lib A knows that, but since --excludePath is just a quick fix, the dev does not in fact fix it.
22:20:06	dom96	I suppose this would work, and allow for easy expansion if needs be.
22:22:05	Araq	I'm thinking about project/version vs. project-version
22:22:28	Araq	extra sub directories for the versioning is annoying IMO
22:22:48	dom96	I don't think so.
22:22:56	dom96	It's easier to determine the versions that are installed
22:23:02	dom96	ls jester/
22:23:18	dom96	instead of ls . | grep jester-
22:23:36	dom96	(If my Bash knowledge is correct)
22:23:43	Araq	jester- TAB
22:24:13	dom96	In the terminal it's exactly the same really.
22:24:26	dom96	But if I were to do it in Nimrod, it's a different story
22:24:51	Araq	you know you could use the same code as the compiler ...
22:25:05	*	Vladar quit (Quit: Leaving)
22:25:13	dom96	Why do you think project/version is annoying?
22:25:50	Araq	because subdirectories are heavily overused
22:26:19	Araq	and all it achieves is that it's getting harder to get a proper overview
22:26:53	Araq	check out a random java repository on github :P
22:26:55	*	shevy joined #nimrod
22:26:56	dom96	I prefer to get an overview of what packages are installed. Instead of seeing a huge list of packages and their different version combinations
22:26:58	shevy	hi
22:27:09	Araq	hi shevy
22:27:16	dom96	hey shevy
22:27:16	shevy	\o/ talking about the nimrod package manager dom96?
22:27:23	dom96	yep
22:27:32	dom96	It's called babel btw :)
22:28:17	dom96	Araq: I still fail to see how a sub-dir is annoying.
22:28:24	dom96	IMO it organises the packages better
22:28:40	dom96	That's what folders are for after all.
22:29:13	Araq	most of the time there will only be 1 version
22:29:23	Araq	so it's only a pointless additional sub-dir
22:29:37	Araq	that's annoying to navigate
22:30:05	dom96	ok, fair enough. Your method is less annoying when there is only 1 version, but my method is less annoying when there are multiple.
22:31:07	Araq	you have a list of 50 packages, 4 of which have 2 versions
22:31:20	Araq	I fail how an extra directory helps anything
22:31:21	dom96	I have thought of another problem.
22:31:29	dom96	Each package refers to a git repo.
22:31:49	dom96	How is babel meant to retrieve a specific version?
22:32:18	Araq	it's all stored in your json file
22:32:40	dom96	That could work, I suppose.
22:33:04	dom96	I don't like it however
22:33:25	Araq	what else could be the solution?
22:34:04	dom96	yeah, i'm not seeing another solution except creating a full blown website to host the packages.
22:34:49	Araq	as far as babel is concerned it doesn't need to deal with versions at all
22:35:02	dom96	it does.
22:35:10	Araq	you can treat different versions as completely different packages
22:35:19	dom96	hrm.
22:35:36	Araq	helps for automatic dependencies too :-)
22:42:48	dom96	That could work. But now I see a problem with your project-version
22:42:58	dom96	What if the project name contains hyphens?
22:43:15	Araq	what about it?
22:43:25	dom96	It will be a lot less ambiguous to just put it in a subdir
22:43:26	dom96	:P
22:43:28	Araq	project-with-dashes-0.2.4
22:43:39	Araq	still easy :P
22:43:58	dom96	Project-54.2-0.23.9-1
22:44:02	dom96	What now?
22:44:25	dom96	People like to make weird version strings :P
22:47:57	Araq	you know the best way to get something done is to pull weird corner cases out of your a** and pretend it's a realistic scenario
22:48:27	Araq	people need to keep their version strings sane anyway
22:48:33	Araq	or it can't work
22:48:57	Araq	but fine, lets use _ instead of - as a separator
22:49:18	dom96	nah, I dislike _
22:51:20	dom96	so, should the package name simply include the version?
22:51:44	Araq	if not, babel should add it ... :P
22:52:03	dom96	what I'm asking is:
22:52:30	dom96	{ "name": "jester-0.1.0"} vs. {"name":"jester", "version": "0.1.0"}
22:53:26	Araq	the later
22:55:12	dom96	ok, we can also allow "latest" which will use the latest from git?
22:56:54	Araq	sure but it's a weird version name
22:57:14	dom96	better suggestion?
22:57:16	Araq	I would simply leave out the 'version' then
22:57:27	dom96	ok.
22:57:39	dom96	Now, what's the best approach to git with versioning. I'm thinking tags.
22:58:37	dom96	Then we can simply provide a "git-tag": "v0.1.0", if it's not there then simply use the version as the git tag
23:00:48	Araq	ok
23:01:17	dom96	Alright, so we can conclude then?
23:01:31	Araq	we need the same for mercurial etc. I think
23:01:43	dom96	yeah, but that's not needed now.
23:02:06	dom96	In conclusion;
23:02:16	Araq	maybe just call it 'dvcs-tag'?
23:02:18	dom96	Packages go into .babel/project-version/
23:02:25	dom96	ok.
23:02:49	dom96	each packages specifies its version, if it's missing 'latest' is assumed.
23:03:15	dom96	"excludePath" will need to be implemented in the Nimrod compiler.
23:03:47	dom96	latest package will be installed as .babel/project (?)
23:04:02	Araq	yeah fine with me
23:04:23	Araq	or a version number could be enforced by babel
23:04:33	dom96	"babelPath" also implemented in compiler?
23:04:38	Araq	yes
23:05:47	dom96	So excluding the latest will just be "excludePath: jester/ ?
23:06:40	dom96	maybe it should be installed under "jester-latest"?
23:06:50	Araq	nah
23:07:01	dom96	jester-head
23:07:08	Araq	excludePath:jester is fine
23:07:56	dom96	Feels a bit misleading
23:09:06	Araq	do it your way then
23:09:11	dom96	I will go with jester-head
23:09:20	Araq	babel/jester-head
23:09:25	Araq	babel/abc-head
23:09:29	dom96	mmm
23:09:31	Araq	babel/sdl-head
23:09:38	Araq	babel/gtk3-head
23:09:42	Araq	notice something?
23:10:05	Araq	it's ugly :P
23:10:14	Araq	it's redundant
23:10:30	dom96	ugh, this isn't a beauty pageant
23:10:41	Araq	it doesn't help readability at all
23:11:09	dom96	see, this wouldn't be a problem if it was a subdir of project/ ;)
23:11:36	Araq	it's still not a problem
23:12:26	dom96	fine
23:12:40	dom96	Once again, I shall listen to the almighty Araq.
23:13:06	Araq	yep and blame me if it breaks down
23:13:29	dom96	I will be looking forward to that :P
23:13:59	dom96	nah, i'm kidding. I'm sure it will be fine.
23:14:25	Araq	"leaving out the version means latest" is a simple rule and not suprising at all
23:14:38	dom96	yeah.
23:16:12	dom96	It just feels like saying "excludePath: jester" means "exclude all of jester"
23:16:31	dom96	but hey, the concept of excludePath will require some reading anyway
23:17:00	dom96	After you get to know what it really does, it makes sense
23:17:11	Araq	yeah
23:18:05	dom96	ok, well that's sorted then
23:18:17	dom96	Hopefully i'll be able to implement that tomorrow
23:19:50	Araq	ok great
23:19:57	Araq	I have to sleep now too, good night
23:20:16	dom96	me too
23:20:18	dom96	bye