<< 07-05-2024 >>
00:00:49FromDiscord<zumi.dxy> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#pasty=RTwbkebhaFNp
00:01:07FromDiscord<zumi.dxy> or `year mod 4`, idk
00:01:23FromDiscord<zumi.dxy> does the compiler optimize the latter to the former
00:01:33FromDiscord<zumi.dxy> (C or Nim, doesn't matter)
00:21:46FromDiscord<polylokh_39446> it's cryptic either way, it's calendar math.
00:22:39FromDiscord<polylokh_39446> the practical advantage of mod is only that you're less likely to have someone tell you to be less cryptic because the "pointless optimization" is very well known
00:23:33FromDiscord<polylokh_39446> but they're telling you that because it's so well known and not because anybody who doesn't understand the code is going to understand it better with the change
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02:37:05FromDiscord<user2m> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#pasty=keZPCtNqeQwo
02:37:36FromDiscord<user2m> (edit) "https://play.nim-lang.org/#pasty=YBwgCVfBiXtK" => "https://play.nim-lang.org/#pasty=NLtPEzvnNyaA"
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04:21:08FromDiscord<polylokh_39446> I get the same thing. What's interesting is that I don't see any syscalls to explain it.↵it connects, successfully sets a socket option, and then immediately prints a traceback and exits.
04:21:25FromDiscord<polylokh_39446> the error's in checkReply but there's no I/O on the socket
04:22:50FromDiscord<polylokh_39446> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#pasty=AWBkytBnIfYg
04:24:18FromDiscord<polylokh_39446> and there, the issue is probably that it it's not strictly following the protocol, and sending HELO before the server greets it (cPanel does this precisely to kick scripts. BTW it's easy to get blacklisted by big sites if you have minor SMTP errors, you should test with your own server)
04:28:17FromDiscord<polylokh_39446> I suspect smtp's broken with ssl. It's a bunch of async code and therefore forbidden to me.
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06:19:19FromDiscord<xkonti> I just read the small print that async procs (asyncdispatch) can utilize the `raises` pragma 😢 I wonder if somebody is in the know if which async/await library (asyncdispatch vs chronos) is more prolific throughout the Nim ecosystem and where things are going.
06:19:35FromDiscord<xkonti> (edit) "can" => "can't"
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06:28:22FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Asyncdispatch gets its hands on everything but chronos is likely slightly better
06:35:35PMunchAsyncdispatch is definitely the most widely used one
06:35:38FromDiscord<Phil> I tend to write first against asyncdispatch because being in std and without some kind of big signage shouting "Go chronos, default to chronos, for all that is holy go chronos" means it is the default people are going to use
06:36:29FromDiscord<Phil> I'll look into making rex eventually chronos compatible via compiletime switch or sth, should be simple enough given that both have async-await and waitFor
06:36:35FromDiscord<Phil> At least I think chronos has waitFor
06:36:38PMunchI wonder how hard it would be to write a compatibility layer so that Chronos and asyncdispatch can be mixed
06:37:14FromDiscord<Phil> In reply to @PMunch "I wonder how hard": Depending on the circumstances: Very, asyncdispatch has some things in it that make it tempting to use that chronos just does not have and will not have because they promote bad design
06:37:22FromDiscord<Phil> Like being able to check if there is async work before you poll
06:38:27FromDiscord<Phil> Okay, phew, yes chronos does have waitFor
06:38:46PMunchWhat do you mean "check if there is async work before you poll"?
06:39:15FromDiscord<Phil> So you know how if you call poll when there is nothing in the asyncdispatcher you'll get an exception?
06:39:34FromDiscord<Phil> asyncdispatch has a proc that lets you check if the asyncdispatcher is empty or not
06:40:10PMunchRight
06:40:16PMunchMakes sense
06:40:17FromDiscord<Phil> Which is sth you likely shouldn't do in the first place because if that's needed and you're likely in a while-loop then you should be putting the thread into a low powers state until you wake it up with a signal
06:40:36FromDiscord<Phil> But wrapping your brain around the second solution is (for me at least) harder
06:40:50FromDiscord<Phil> And implies multithreading. I still don't get all the implications that come with it
06:40:58FromDiscord<Phil> It is certainly not the simpler approach, though likely the overall cleaner one
06:43:35FromDiscord<Phil> sent a long message, see https://pasty.ee/CNEPeWCAmQZV
06:43:53FromDiscord<Phil> Definitely better design, Definitely harder to understand and deal with
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09:30:50FromDiscord<ieltan> In reply to @PMunch "I wonder how hard": That's basically yasync` if it had chronos support
09:30:58FromDiscord<ieltan> (edit) "yasync`" => "`yasync`"
09:34:16FromDiscord<ieltan> https://github.com/yglukhov/yasync
09:34:33PMunchHmm, yeah that seems similar to what I had in mind
09:34:46PMunchBut I was more thinking of a way to mix Chronos and asyncdispatch
09:35:04PMunchThis seems like a repo to abstract async away so it could be used in either system
09:35:43FromDiscord<ieltan> In reply to @PMunch "But I was more": How would that work though? Would you end up with two event loops or you combine into a single one?
09:36:06PMunchWell they'd have to be combined somehow, to tick both of them
09:36:47PMunchI'm more curious about how a Chronos library could be made to call an asyncdispatch procedure and vice-versa
09:39:34FromDiscord<ieltan> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#pasty=xPHMcCBzThyu
09:42:58FromDiscord<ieltan> I think one issue is that you need to make sure you use the right waitFor
09:43:25FromDiscord<ieltan> And how this black magic actually interacts with the library
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10:44:12FromDiscord<xkonti> Thank you @ElegantBeef @pmunch @Phil I'll use asyncdispatch for CommonFs. The only bad part is that I'll loose functionality where the compiler forces the method implementation to throw only a specified set of errors 😦
10:46:25PMunchOnly a specified set of errors? That doesn't sound right
10:49:12FromDiscord<xkonti> I used "raises" pragma on the base method and it prevents the overloading method from throwing any errors other than the specified. This feature was awesome
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11:18:24FromDiscord<xtrayambak> How can I get the number of states an enum has at compile time?
11:22:17FromDiscord<Robyn [She/Her]> In reply to @xtrayambak "How can I get": `high(MyEnum)` maybe? Wouldn't work for enums with holes though
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11:23:38FromDiscord<Robyn [She/Her]> In reply to @xtrayambak "How can I get": You can also do `Enum.items.toSeq.len` if you import `std/sequtils`
11:23:45FromDiscord<Robyn [She/Her]> (edit) "`Enum.items.toSeq.len`" => "`MyEnum.items.toSeq.len`"
11:27:31FromDiscord<odexine> Preferably do that on compile time
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12:34:28Amun-RaRobyn: high won't work even on enums without holes
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13:12:33FromDiscord<Robyn [She/Her]> In reply to @Amun-Ra "Robyn: high won't work": Ah, oh well
13:13:06FromDiscord<Robyn [She/Her]> How does `once` work btw, for anyone who does know
13:14:50FromDiscord<solitudesf> In reply to @chronos.vitaqua "How does `once` work": you can just look at source. its just an implicit global.↵https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/blob/version-2-0/lib/system.nim#L2630
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13:23:00FromDiscord<Robyn [She/Her]> Oh nice
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13:31:28FromDiscord<Zoom> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#pasty=bCJDspdMRaar
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13:38:19FromDiscord<System64 ~ Flandre Scarlet> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#pasty=gXRjVhqEoAQU
13:41:12FromDiscord<odexine> missing `_: ` before `typedesc`
13:46:23FromDiscord<System64 ~ Flandre Scarlet> In reply to @odexine "missing `_: ` before": alright, thanks↵And can I do↵Engine.layers[anIndex] function? Knowing the fact there is no layer field
13:46:26FromDiscord<System64 ~ Flandre Scarlet> (edit) "layer" => "layers"
13:46:38FromDiscord<odexine> i dont think you can do the fake field index function
13:47:00FromDiscord<System64 ~ Flandre Scarlet> oh, a bit sad
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15:24:48FromDiscord<Robyn [She/Her]> sent a long message, see https://pasty.ee/PcRBeclPakCC
15:25:42FromDiscord<Robyn [She/Her]> Huh... Oh wait IRC does have multiline, does it?
15:26:23FromDiscord<Robyn [She/Her]> In reply to @chronos.vitaqua "!eval type MyType =": Tested it locally, does not work rip
15:34:02FromDiscord<xtrayambak> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#pasty=JWRRPIWSKwVV
15:37:25FromDiscord<Robyn [She/Her]> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#pasty=HFRAXCAgMFpB
15:40:57FromDiscord<Robyn [She/Her]> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#pasty=RUVIcCYCnqDu
16:05:27FromDiscord<solitudesf> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#pasty=wCDwgdCIPtKY
16:12:23FromDiscord<Robyn [She/Her]> Why are people using macros 😭
16:16:03FromDiscord<Phil> Because I can't put options of different types in a seq
16:16:12FromDiscord<Robyn [She/Her]> -.-
16:16:23FromDiscord<Robyn [She/Her]> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#pasty=wadiEpkKSrIi
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16:49:08FromDiscord<firasuke> I am impressed by Nim's enums, but what are some advantages of using enums over constants? I have a bunch of constants with string values that I would like to group, but I am unsure if enums (with string values) is the right way to group them: https://github.com/glaucuslinux/rad/blob/main/src/constants.nim
16:52:43FromDiscord<dawidek.2137> the most obvious way to count enum length was always {T.low .. T.high}.len
16:53:08FromDiscord<dawidek.2137> (len[T: enum] is the same as count[T: enum] from syste.nim)
16:53:11FromDiscord<odexine> except holey enums
16:53:16FromDiscord<dawidek.2137> oh, right
16:58:08FromDiscord<xkonti> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#pasty=XSKTCFqHVWPG
16:59:20FromDiscord<xkonti> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#pasty=OOKKarxXjztW
17:00:20FromDiscord<xkonti> You can use enums with sets to get flags that store multiple values in a single integer for memory efficiency. Nim's implementation makes it so that you don't need to hassle with bitwise operators!
17:00:26FromDiscord<odexine> personally id probably define direction as separate enums for x&y
17:00:43FromDiscord<firasuke> In reply to @xkonti "You can store a": Thing is I am using enums to store strings as values, not numbers
17:05:13FromDiscord<xkonti> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#pasty=THXJmnGFLrPX
17:06:59FromDiscord<Phil> ... Thinking more about reactiveX and how it integrates well with actors has me thinking if maybe
17:07:01FromDiscord<Phil> Just maybe
17:07:04Amun-Rayou don't have to put commas when you split values into separate lines
17:07:17FromDiscord<Phil> My threadbutler doesn't need the "shared memory" bits of concurrency.
17:07:28FromDiscord<Phil> There's so many frontend languages that get away with just always deep-copying
17:07:36Amun-Rathreadbutler, nice name
17:10:40FromDiscord<Phil> Thanks, came to me because I wanted sth that treated threads like web-servers - an instance with pre-defined end-points
17:10:46FromDiscord<Phil> (edit) "Thanks, came to me because I wanted sth that treated threads like web-servers - an instance with pre-defined end-points ... " added "that may also ping back"
17:10:55FromDiscord<threefour> In reply to @xkonti "You define an enum": You can get the names as a string with `ord`, then you don't need to specify the strings explicitly.
17:11:13FromDiscord<threefour> (edit) "`ord`," => "`chr`,"
17:11:20FromDiscord<solitudesf> In reply to @chronos.vitaqua "Why are people using": i hecking love macros
17:11:23Amun-Rachoosing the right name is one of the most "difficultest" things in programming
17:13:41Amun-Rahmm, can I somehow force newSeq to be freed ad point A?
17:13:47Amun-Ras/ad/at/
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17:16:55Amun-Raalthough that wouldn't mean the unrefed memory is going to be released to the OS
17:16:57Amun-Ranevermind
17:22:31FromDiscord<dawidek.2137> In reply to @firasuke "I am impressed by": making the compiler prevent you from forgetting about handling one of the values in a case statement
17:26:44Amun-Rathat, and enum allows your variable to have its distinct type
17:27:30Amun-Raand that eliminates adding apples to oranges
17:30:50NimEventerNew thread by akavel: Rust interop/FFI experiments?, see https://forum.nim-lang.org/t/11563
17:31:45FromDiscord<xkonti> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#pasty=NqunUmmYfvez
17:32:02FromDiscord<firasuke> Before enums: https://github.com/glaucuslinux/rad/blob/fbb831bbc575bf82a4ee2cea309ce156dfba5116/src/constants.nim↵↵After enums: https://github.com/glaucuslinux/rad/blob/main/src/constants.nim
17:32:23FromDiscord<firasuke> In reply to @firasuke "Before enums: https://github.com/glaucuslinux/rad/b": Is the usage of enums justified here? Or should I go back to constants..
17:32:37FromDiscord<firasuke> In reply to @dawidek.2137 "making the compiler prevent": This is both cool and annoying at times xD
17:33:26FromDiscord<firasuke> I had a huge constants.nim file that had all these as constants instead of enums, but after I saw I can basically cut the duplication of strings in half using $ I switched to enums
17:33:33Amun-Rafirasuke: depending on the usage I either make enums or distinct strings
17:38:34FromDiscord<xkonti> I'd say: If it makes your like easier, it's worth it. Passing those enums arround you're only passing an `int`, so that's performance improvement. Not sure if `$Enum.Value` is replaced with a constant by the compiler or not.
17:40:33FromDiscord<firasuke> In reply to @xkonti "I'd say: If it": definitely, it made it so much easier to read and write code (felt like I am doing bash tbh), but I felt I was over relying on this Nim feature, more than it being a good design thing
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17:45:25FromDiscord<xkonti> sent a long message, see https://pasty.ee/krMJtafouWnA
17:45:27FromDiscord<Robyn [She/Her]> In reply to @xkonti "I'd say: If it": I'd imagine it would be
17:46:10FromDiscord<Robyn [She/Her]> I've been using Nim for at least a year or two and I'd still say I'm considered a noob xD
17:46:17FromDiscord<firasuke> In reply to @xkonti "I'd say that having": I appreciate your input on this, even if you're a newbie
17:46:18Amun-Raif it does not make you life harder, always separate your types
17:46:24FromDiscord<threefour> > lack of decent enums in other programming languages↵cough cough Go cough cough
17:46:33FromDiscord<firasuke> In reply to @Amun-Ra "if it does not": oh you mean into different files?
17:46:50FromDiscord<xkonti> In reply to @threefour "> lack of decent": C# 🪦
17:47:00FromDiscord<firasuke> In reply to @threefour "> lack of decent": yeah Nim's enums are great, it's like flexing on other languages
17:47:22FromDiscord<threefour> Nim does a lot of things right
17:47:41Amun-Rafirasuke: I mean try to keep different kind of types separate from each other
17:48:02FromDiscord<threefour> I just wish parallelism was a little more robust, then I'd be totally happy. Well bug fixes too, but that's a given.
17:48:15FromDiscord<xkonti> In reply to @firasuke "oh you mean into": These don't have to be in different files. As long as you defined separate enum types (like in the code you linked) you're good. You can't mix both together anymore like you could with strings.
17:48:50FromDiscord<xkonti> (edit) "both together" => "unrelated values"
17:50:18FromDiscord<firasuke> ah ok
17:51:29FromDiscord<dawidek.2137> The thing I wish the most for for nim is to have more backends and ability to generate human readabale code
17:51:40FromDiscord<dawidek.2137> because then I could get away with using nim where i'm not supposed to
17:51:57FromDiscord<dawidek.2137> well, semi-human readable
17:52:33FromDiscord<firasuke> In reply to @dawidek.2137 "The thing I wish": I think with NIR being worked on, this should become a bit easier
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17:56:34FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> If it's not holey you can just do `MyEnum.high.ord + 1`
17:57:18Amun-Raare enums starting from 3 holey?
17:57:29FromDiscord<odexine> technically no
17:57:33Amun-Raright
17:59:00FromDiscord<threefour> In reply to @threefour "I just wish parallelism": And circular dependency resolution that's bitten me several times
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18:01:46FromDiscord<demotomohiro> I just found there is already a macro in stdlib returns the number of items in an enum: https://nim-lang.org/docs/typetraits.html#enumLen.m%2Ctypedesc%5B%5D
18:02:26FromDiscord<firasuke> In reply to @threefour "And circular dependency resolution*": https://github.com/ryukoposting/toposort
18:03:24FromDiscord<Robyn [She/Her]> In reply to @demotomohiro "I just found there": I don't get why it's done as a macro honestly
18:03:31FromDiscord<Robyn [She/Her]> A template makes more sense to me ;-;
18:07:48FromDiscord<demotomohiro> In reply to @chronos.vitaqua "I don't get why": I think it requires to call `getType` proc in macros module to get the AST of enum type definition.
18:08:24FromDiscord<demotomohiro> And you cannot directly call `getType` in template.
18:09:21Amun-Racircular dependency is skill issue
18:10:19FromDiscord<threefour> I mean yeah it can be refactored, but it'd be nice to just throw imports where you want em lol
18:10:43Amun-Raeither refactor or reforget it ;>
18:11:15Amun-Rabtw. you can have circular deps in the same type block
18:22:36FromDiscord<Robyn [She/Her]> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#pasty=JPnLsaWVDqNZ
18:41:22FromDiscord<aintea> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#pasty=mABwMqrSvrSm
18:44:17FromDiscord<odexine> yes if you give the types for x and y
18:44:41Amun-Ralet f = (x, y: int) => (x + y)
18:44:55Amun-Raah, odexine was faster
18:46:18NimEventerNew thread by xtr00: Feature Request: enum: relax or remove order requirements., see https://forum.nim-lang.org/t/11564
18:50:13FromDiscord<Robyn [She/Her]> Isn't the point of an enum to be able to enumerate over it?
18:50:20FromDiscord<Robyn [She/Her]> Higher values included?
18:52:36FromDiscord<xkonti> Not necessarily. Most of the time when you use enums you don't iterate over them. Here's the origin of the term:↵> The term "enum" in programming, short for "enumeration," refers to a data type that consists of a set of named values. The concept itself dates back to the early days of computer science and programming, evolving from the mathematical notion of enumeration, which is essentially a complete, ordered listing of all items in a c
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18:53:31FromDiscord<xkonti> In other words, enums are types that hold all possible values of something. Values that are closely related.
18:55:03FromDiscord<Phil> Yeh, enums are a "There's a limited amount of values this thing can have" sort of thing.↵For example a command a user may input into a CLI.↵There's only a limited number of commands the user can input. Therefore, enum.
18:55:36FromDiscord<Phil> "A group fully expressing the possible values of a given concept" could be another way to phrase it imo
18:59:24FromDiscord<demotomohiro> In reply to @chronos.vitaqua "<@288750616510201856> you don't need": Your solution uses `items` iterator in `enumutils`. So if `enumLen` template uses that iterator, `typetraits` module need to import `enumutils` module.↵`enumutils` module already imports `typetraits` module.↵`items` iterator in `enumutils` calls `enumFullRange` macro that calls `getType`.↵https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/blob/version-2-0/lib/std/enumutils.nim
19:01:45FromDiscord<Robyn [She/Her]> Couldn't a mixin be used, though? Not sure how mixins work exactly still, but I have a rough idea
19:02:10FromDiscord<Robyn [She/Her]> And if it's a system module, why would it be an issue?
19:02:57FromDiscord<Robyn [She/Her]> I probably don't know what I'm talking about so ignore me
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19:10:50FromDiscord<Phil> I wish mixins worked more consistently
19:11:20FromDiscord<Phil> So often its "Bind that symbol in the scope of the current module".↵Well, I defined that other symbol in the current module and it's not getting bound 😐
19:27:55FromDiscord<aintea> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#pasty=GhhjIPnAhQqK
19:28:15FromDiscord<aintea> (edit) "https://play.nim-lang.org/#pasty=yloTkDmGCkHz" => "https://play.nim-lang.org/#pasty=IwMphYfLGuiU"
19:28:44FromDiscord<aintea> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#pasty=qyVEeBYLyGZa
19:30:37FromDiscord<polylokh_39446> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#pasty=egfQJiJWJegK
19:30:39FromDiscord<Phil> You want to destructure the tuple in the params
19:30:50FromDiscord<Phil> I don't think that's possible. Best you can do is named tuple type
19:31:10FromDiscord<aintea> thanks
19:31:19FromDiscord<aintea> I love nim
19:31:32FromDiscord<aintea> Looks like generics in Nim don't love me
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20:13:34FromDiscord<juancarlospaco> If you have spam on Github issues, I made a Github action to auto-moderate spam (because cant find one), PR welcome, watch the video:↵https://github.com/juancarlospaco/antispam-action?tab=readme-ov-file#docs /cc @ringabout
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20:22:57NimEventerNew thread by thegraynode: Nim covered by Stephen Blum, CTO of PubNub, see https://forum.nim-lang.org/t/11565
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20:40:48FromDiscord<System64 ~ Flandre Scarlet> Is it possible to import a specific function/proc from a Nim file and export this function,
20:40:52FromDiscord<System64 ~ Flandre Scarlet> (edit) "function," => "function?"
21:23:10FromDiscord<Robyn [She/Her]> Anyone know how I'd implement passes that go through an AST and ensure that it's valid? Not too sure how to go about it, tbh
21:28:08FromDiscord<dawidek.2137> In reply to @sys64 "Is it possible to": export keyword, probably (didn't use it)
21:28:31FromDiscord<polylokh_39446> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#pasty=XbJtldMArXsa
21:30:08FromDiscord<dawidek.2137> In reply to @chronos.vitaqua "Anyone know how I'd": use macros.dumpTree to check what the expected tree looks like, in your macro call macros.error to show an error message if something is wrong with the node tree it received
21:30:36FromDiscord<Robyn [She/Her]> Ah I should've specified, it's unrelated to Nim's AST, this is for my own parser
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23:44:53FromDiscord<dawidek.2137> what is this pragma (seen in system.nim)? {.callsite.}
23:54:55FromDiscord<polylokh_39446> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#pasty=YPjhAApUBxVh