<< 07-09-2015 >>
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06:39:53gokrGood morning Nimsters!
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06:41:06strcmp1morning :)
06:41:22reactormonkAll hail Nim
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08:12:14tjaHello, anyone on?
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08:27:32Araqhi tja
08:28:04Araqdom96: any thoughts on my Nimble PR?
08:28:18dom96hello tja and Araq
08:28:30dom96Araq: I don't like that you renamed all 'options' to 'opt'
08:28:36dom96Haven't got much further than that in the review
08:28:44dom96I'll review the rest tonight
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08:29:10Araqone thing that really sucks IMHO is the inconsistent command line handling between Nim and Nimble
08:29:18Araqnim build # fails
08:29:21Araqnimble build # works
08:29:28Araqnim build project.nim # works
08:29:35Araqnimble build project.nim # fails
08:29:38dom96what?
08:29:42dom96There is no such thing as 'nim build'
08:30:05Araqsurely there is if your nims file has a "build" task
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08:30:57tjaHi
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08:31:31tjaI was wondering if it would be possible to ask someone to give a presentation on the technical aspects of Nim.
08:31:46tjaTo a tech audience.
08:32:09tjaFor context: I work in a software lab.
08:32:14gokrtja: Where?
08:32:31tjaBelgium: Leuven. The institute is called Imec (www.imec.be)
08:32:43tjaVia teleconf is also possible
08:32:56tjaWasn't sure where to ask, hence on IRC :-P
08:33:46dom96Araq: If it does then it will work on Nim too
08:33:56dom96because Nim will do the same thing Nimble will do
08:34:01tjaWe're an odd bunch, but some of us are pretty interested in Nim.
08:34:03gokrtja: You can also post on the forum, but most Nimmers do hang here.
08:37:16Araqtja: I guess I can do that ;-)
08:37:30tjaaraq: Bingo :-)
08:38:25Araqdom96: cannot follow
08:40:58dom96The build task will in most cases just be defined as: nimble.buildMe()
08:41:20dom96so the nims file will import nimble's module
08:43:29r-kuAraq you forgot
08:43:39gokrdom96: Off topic, I was reading up on the "latest" web stuff, ReactJS in particular. Have you done anything like that with Jester as backend?
08:43:49gokrr-ku: Hehe
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08:49:12Araqdom96: er ... I don't think this is realistic with the current NimScript API
08:49:34Araqnor is it desirable really, would start a process (nimble)
08:49:45Araqthat then calls the compiler again
08:50:22dom96gokr: nope, haven't gotten into this new wave of JS frameworks yet :)
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08:50:40dom96Araq: It wouldn't start a process.
08:51:00gokrdom96: I just skimmed some articles comparing a bunch of them - and ReactJS looks quite nice. Reminds me a fair bit of Seaside actually, nested components etc.
08:51:01dom96At least not the nimble process
08:51:12dom96It would execute the build instructions in the same way that Nimble would
08:53:07Araqnim build -?-> nimble.buildMe() # how does that work? we have a nimble module that works with NimScript?
08:53:24dom96I guess we'll get one
08:53:31dom96how else do you expect nims to work?
08:56:37Araqlike it's done in my PR
08:56:56AraqI'm quite happy with it once we unified command line handling
08:58:08dom96how does it work in your PR/
08:58:11dom96?
08:58:47Araqit executes the project.nims file rather than processing a project.nimble file
08:59:14dom96yeah
08:59:17Araqthe project.nims file sets author, deps etc and nimble retrieves these values with the compiler's API
08:59:51dom96So what if I want to define my own 'build' command?
09:00:09Araqit overrides nimble's build command, I think
09:00:11dom96I obviously program it in the nims file
09:00:31dom96So why not have the default implemented in nims too?
09:01:02Araqsure thing
09:01:24Araqwe can do that
09:01:45Araqthat means "Nimble" doesn't know about a "build" command at all
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09:05:57dom96yeah
09:06:06dom96well, it can have some idea
09:06:18dom96if there is no build command defined then it will give a meaningful error
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10:04:43Araqyglukhov: can you check what the .base annoation requirement caused to your codebase?
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10:32:48yglukhovAraq: about that nimvm transformation. Nimvm gets constfolded in generic code. And consfold of nimvm is an invalid operation in my code. Preventing constfold of nimvm will require explicit handling of nkWhen generic transformations. Would that be the correct approach?
10:32:57NimBotnim-lang/Nim devel adf3408 Araq [+1 ±5 -0]: documented NimScript
10:32:57NimBotnim-lang/Nim devel a480beb Araq [+0 ±2 -0]: Nimscript: documented; 'exec' now produces output immediately
10:33:18Araqyglukhov: don't make it a 'const'.
10:33:25Araqthen it's not folded
10:33:27Araqbbl
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11:19:32yglukhovCan't find a decent test on arith and bit operations in nim tests. Does anyone know where to find it?
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11:38:11reactormonkyglukhov, are they defined in system? Then somewhere in the tests dir.
11:38:47yglukhovreactormonk, "somewhere in tests dir" - that's helpul =)
11:39:01reactormonkyglukhov, that's about as much as I know. git grep might help.
11:41:00yglukhovok, found some in misc/tints.nim
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11:45:33reactormonkFeel free to rename/clean up
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13:12:19Araqyglukhov: indeed they are all in misc/
13:12:56Araqfeel free to move them to basics/ instead or whatever
13:13:50yglukhovI don't really care where they are now that i've found them ;)
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13:20:12reactormonkyglukhov, someone else might look for them
13:20:18reactormonkAraq, shouldn't they go into system/ ?
13:21:02Araqsystem/ is also fine I guess
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14:07:16OnOAraq: one Q about .base annotation, what if we have 3 level hierarchy, should 1, 2 lvl be annotated as base or only 1
14:07:30OnOdoes .base solution prevent problems with 3 lvl hierarchy too?
14:08:31Araqonly 1
14:10:12Araqalso it turned out to not prevent any problem really. I fixed the real problem dfferently
14:10:59Araqhowever it still makes things more obvious, especially the interactions with the effect system. So I want to leave .base in the language.
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14:20:19NimBotnim-lang/Nim devel 4ef4ad3 Yuriy Glukhov [+0 ±3 -0]: Fixed nimvm in generics.
14:20:19NimBotnim-lang/Nim devel 0b51d6d Andreas Rumpf [+0 ±3 -0]: Merge pull request #3291 from yglukhov/nimvm-generic-fix... 2 more lines
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14:35:55NimBotnim-lang/Nim devel 167acf4 Adam Strzelecki [+0 ±1 -0]: typeToString: Fix shared/not nil on complex types... 3 more lines
14:35:55NimBotnim-lang/Nim devel 5e5d5b6 Andreas Rumpf [+0 ±1 -0]: Merge pull request #3295 from nanoant/patch/fix-type-to-string-flags... 2 more lines
14:36:48NimBotnim-lang/Nim devel caf0cd9 Matt Sullivan [+0 ±1 -0]: Replace incorrect warning string.
14:36:48NimBotnim-lang/Nim devel 217a30a Andreas Rumpf [+0 ±1 -0]: Merge pull request #3293 from Matt14916/usebase-msg-fix... 2 more lines
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14:45:27AraqJehan_: OpenMP can create threads behind our back. For Nim's GC we have setupForeignThreadGc, what does Boehm offer?
14:50:30yglukhovAraq: i suspect i'll break bootstrap if i use nimvm in seq.insert.
14:51:01Araqwhy? it defaults to 'false'
14:51:14yglukhovit is 'let', not const
14:51:23Araqah bah
14:51:34Araqwhen defined(booting):
14:51:41Araq const nimvm = false
14:51:43Araqelse:
14:52:08Araq let nimvm {.magic: "nimvm".} = false
14:52:20yglukhovah... ill do it in the same pr, ok?
14:52:27Araqsure
14:52:33Araqbut please test it well
14:57:24Araqmore robust is this:
14:57:43Araqwhen defined(nimKnowsNimVm):
14:57:55Araq let nimvm {.magic: "nimvm".} = false
14:57:56Araqelse:
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14:58:02Araq const nimvm = false
14:58:04Jehan_Araq: You can use GC_allow_register_threads() and then GC_register_my_thread()/GC_unregister_my_thread() using GC_call_with_stackbase() in a wrapper.
14:58:20Araqand then in condsysm.nim, add defineSymbol"nimKnowsnimVm"
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14:59:11Jehan_I'd have to look at the existing thread code to figure out how much hacking is necessary to put the wrapper in.
14:59:12Araqor maybe we can make 'defined' check for known magics
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15:19:50Araqsomebody should write a Nim wrapper for this: http://mathgl.sourceforge.net/doc_en/Main.html
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15:58:17AmrykidAraq, would there be any prolems with me updating my name in some of the files? A couple of libs (such as sequtils) don't have my full name on it.
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16:04:21Amrykidnot mission critical or anything
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16:07:45r-kuAraq regarding wrapping of cpp classes.. have you considered something like pragma on type to make it emit actual c++ class? you know.. so virtual methods can be overridden.
16:11:11onionhammeryep cpp backend is still failing for me
16:11:36onionhammersigsegv
16:12:06onionhammerim gonna try to get this to reproduce w/ a smaller example and submit an issue
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16:24:38onionhammerhttps://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/issues/3299
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19:14:30HaCk3Dping
19:15:46HaCk3Dhow can i represent an int in a binary format?
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19:16:09Mat4what binary format ?
19:16:14HaCk3D00101
19:16:39HaCk3Dshould i code my own proc it has a built-in one?
19:18:47Mat4it's some time I had take a look at the documentation, however left to right shifting and outmasking would all be needed
19:22:01FedeOmotoHaCk3D: import strutils and use toBin()
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19:28:54HaCk3DFedeOmoto: thnx a lot
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20:44:46federico3Can nimscripts be turn into proper executable scripts using a shebang?
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21:04:34redwynhi. is adding to a seq O(1)?
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21:07:19chernozemhi people
21:07:58chernozemvar s: seq[seq[int]]; s.add(@[]): SIGSEGV: Illegal storage access. (Attempt to read from nil?)
21:07:59redwyni'm solving ODEs numerically and i'm wondering wether using a seq accumulate the resulting values is sensible
21:08:10chernozemis this a bug?
21:11:28baabelfishredwyn: adding to the end of a seq is yeah
21:11:44baabelfishredwyn: it will map to c++ std::vector in the future
21:12:16dom96chernozem: hello. You need to initialise the sequence.
21:12:30dom96var s: seq[seq[int]] = @[]
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21:13:00redwynbaabelfish: so would there be another reason to use arrays instead, performance wise
21:13:13chernozemoh, thank you!
21:13:50dom96redwyn: arrays are stored on the stack and cannot grow
21:13:58dom96sequences are stored on the heap and can grow
21:16:14redwynyes but it's possible to know how large an array i'd need beforehand. so i could use it. but theres now real benefit when adding to seqs is already O(1), right?
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21:16:28redwyni dont understand about heap/stack stuff :/
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21:22:58baabelfishredwyn: everything depends on the operations and it's all about tradeoffs
21:23:32baabelfishredwyn: yeah when adding/removing to/from the end
21:23:50baabelfishand if you don't care about the order you can use those and swap to do that in the middle
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21:27:23redwynbaabelfish: alright. thanks!
21:30:47baabelfishredwyn: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_structure didn't read but I think the basics are covered here and in the linked examples
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21:39:27AraqAmrykid: just make a PR
21:40:21Araqfederico3: not yet, we need to use a different syntax for source code filters asap
21:40:52AraqOnO: PRs welcome but we need a deprecation path for this
21:46:58chernozemi think compiler should warn about use of uninitialized variable in that case.
21:47:39Araqchernozem: yeah it's a very common gotcha
21:47:53onionhammeraraq, nim-templates :P
21:47:58Araqthere is work ongoing to fix exactly that
21:48:10Araqonionhammer: lexim :P
21:48:20onionhammerhttps://github.com/onionhammer/nim-templates
21:48:35Araqoh now I get it :P
21:49:10AraqI still love my source code filters and I don't want to rewrite my perfectly fine code
21:49:39Araqreplacing #! with #? is acceptable, rewriting it to use your nim-templates is not
21:50:11onionhammersyntax filters ugly :P
21:50:19dom96Agreed
21:50:25dom96syntax filters need to be prettier
21:50:34dom96Time to paint that bikeshed pink! ;)
21:51:45Araqdom96: reviewed my nimble pr?
21:51:48Araq:P
21:51:56dom96I've got bigger fish to fry
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21:56:00Araqwell i can always merge it on my own
21:56:23dom96No, you can't.
21:56:35dom96Because I will be angry if you do.
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21:58:39Araqthe nimscript-nimble interaction has already been documented
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22:25:29AmrykidAraq, already working on it. thank you
22:25:52NimBotnim-lang/Nim devel f405876 Andrey Sobolev [+0 ±1 -0]: add text modification proc
22:25:52NimBotnim-lang/Nim devel a534434 Andrey Sobolev [+0 ±1 -0]: allow to delete xmlnode childs
22:25:52NimBotnim-lang/Nim devel 4e57ea9 Andrey Sobolev [+1 ±12 -0]: Merge remote-tracking branch 'upstream/devel' into improve-xmltree
22:25:52NimBotnim-lang/Nim devel 7ff87df Dominik Picheta [+0 ±1 -0]: Merge pull request #3298 from haiodo/improve-xmltree... 2 more lines
22:26:12dom96hey Amrykid
22:26:17dom96You back in Nim land?
22:33:16Amrykiddom96, I lurk
22:33:30Amrykidwatch from the shadows
22:33:49VarriountAraq, dom96: I think syntax filters are fine they way they are.
22:34:40VarriountIt's familier to the ones I've encountered in Python, anyway (not that I've encountered a huge number)
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22:43:23AraqVarriount: it's just about replacing #! by #? so that unix guys can continue to think they matter ;-)
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22:44:48VarriountAraq: Well, if we're going to make minor syntactic changes, I vote for changing the pragma syntax to `[/pragmas/]`
22:44:59dom96I don't like the usage of #
22:44:59VarriountThat way I don't have to push the shift key.
22:46:14AraqVarriount: [/ /] is much harder to type on german keyboards
22:46:42VarriountOh?
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22:47:21Varriountdom96: Would you prefer '<% code %>'?
22:47:55dom96just something that isn't #
22:48:01Varriountdom96: https://wiki.python.org/moin/Cheetah
22:58:17VarriountAraq: Ever considered using something xpath-like for term-rewriting macros?
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23:01:04AraqVarriount: not really. "xpath-like" screams "slow"
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23:08:54Araqbut thinking about it #! is fine, it's a nim shebang unless a / follows, then it's a unix shebang
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