<< 08-06-2016 >>
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05:58:33demiIt seems to me that -d:release should be deprecated, since it makes Nim programs vulnerable to buffer overflows, etc.
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09:39:18cheatfateAraq, is it safe to upgrade my OS farm with 0.14.2?
09:39:46Araqer ... is 0.14.2 already a thing?
09:40:27cheatfateAraq, i dont know but i heard yesterday it must be released at midnight
09:40:37cheatfateor i missing something?
09:41:19AraqI am not a vampire.
09:41:35AraqI can work before midnight. Or after.
09:42:34cheatfate:)
09:45:27cheatfatei thought you like da vinchi `sleeping for 15 minutes every 4 hours` :P
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10:31:10euantorHi, anybody got any ideas about the following error on WIndows:
10:31:11euantorcould not load: (ssleay64|libssl64).dll
10:32:00euantorUsing the x64 version of Nim 0.14.0, installed yesterday. libeay64.dll is in C:\Nim\bin, which is in my $PATH
10:32:34euantorSame with ssleay64.dll, though libssl64.dll is missing
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10:37:12PMunchThen I'd take a wild guess that it is libssl64 which is missing
10:38:15PMunchThey talked about this yesterday, but since I don't use Windows I didn't really pay attention so I can't recall what they ended on..
10:49:04euantorAh, damn. I can't seem to find any copies of that from anywhere I'd call reliable without self compiling it
10:49:27euantorTHanks though @PMunch, I'll have a look at the IRC logs
10:50:05PMunchI think they mentioned that the files should be supplied with Nim
10:50:09PMunchBut I might be wrong..
10:51:49euantorYeah, it looks like it. I also grabbed the other zip they mentioned. It's also missing libssl64
10:52:26euantorLooks like the discussion was mostly centered around Nimble. I need it for a package I'm writing too unfortunately
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10:58:57PMunchOh, I'm sorry I couldn't be of more help :(
10:59:58yglukhovAraq: hi, mind merging https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/pull/4294 ?
11:01:51euantorNo problem @PMunch - it's nothing mission critical at the moment!
11:01:59yglukhovAraq: thanks =)
11:02:18Araqeuantor: tell me how to reproduce it, just install win64 and see for myself?
11:03:10euantor@Araq: Install x64 on Windows (8.1 is what I'm using, fully patched, with all install options checked in Nim installer)
11:03:22euantor@Araq: Then clone this repository that I'm working on: https://github.com/euantorano/mailgun.nim
11:03:35euantorTHen `nim c -r -d:ssl tests/mailgun_sync.nim`
11:04:12euantorHint: operation successful (34319 lines compiled; 1.133 sec total; 66.008MiB; Debug Build) [SuccessX]
11:04:20euantorcould not load: (ssleay64|libssl64).dll
11:04:33euantorError: execution of an external program failed: 'c:\users\euant\desktop\mailgun.nim\tests\mailgun_sync.exe '
11:04:53euantorSo it compiles, it just seems to be at runtime that it fails
11:05:07Araqput the DLLs next the .exe please and see if it changes anything
11:07:28euantorI've only got the DLL for ssleay64.dll, but I tried putting that in ./tests/ alongside mailgun_sync.exe and I still get the error
11:07:38euantorAlso tried putting it in ./ with no luck
11:09:53cheatfateeuantor, please try in such way, put ssleay64.dll in the same directory where you run your project exe file, also put there libeay64.dll (but rename it to libeay32.dll)
11:11:50euantor@cheatfate: Tried that. I now have: libeay32.dll, libeay64.dll, ssleay32.dll and ssleay64.dll in the directory. Still no luck
11:12:08Araqeuantor: I think the 64bit DLLs that we offer are broken
11:12:38AraqI can update the DLLs.zip package if only I knew where to find non-broken DLLs
11:13:58euantorYep, I've had a search too and haven't been able to find any copies anywhere at all
11:14:04cheatfateeuantor, if it helps, ssleay64.dll has in it import table (for some reason) name libeay32.dll (not libeay64.dll) so it will never loads
11:14:24euantorIt compiles and works perfectly on my Mac and on Linux, just not WIndows
11:14:35cheatfateif what can helps you is to rename libeay64.dll (real 64bit dll) to name libeay32.dll
11:16:16euantorJust tried that, and that works
11:16:26euantorHow bizarre
11:16:50Araqcheatfate: brilliant :-) so it was my renaming of the DLLs
11:17:05Araqany way we can patch the DLL?
11:17:09Araq(hex-editor?)
11:19:07cheatfateAraq, i dont think so, ssleay64.dll imports functions for libeay32.dll by ordinal, not by names, so it can causes a problems...
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11:19:56cheatfateThe best option you can make is to move them in separate directories and give them appropriate names :)
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11:34:48Araqcheatfate: I think it works :-)
11:35:37cheatfateAraq, you just renamed libeay32.dll to libeay64.dll in ssleay64.dll imports table?
11:35:48AraqI used a hex editor
11:35:51cheatfateyou need to update CRC at least
11:36:32Araqapparently not
11:38:22cheatfateAraq, most AV programs can detect your `brand new ssl dll` as suspicious
11:38:30cheatfatein heuristic mode
11:38:40cheatfatebecause PE CRC is wrong
11:38:46cheatfatebut windows will load it anyway
11:41:31Araqeuantor: can you try the DLLs from http://nim-lang.org/download/dlls2.zip please?
11:41:51Araqcheatfate: that may well be, but I'm curious if my hack works
11:42:15euantorAraq: sure, do you just want them dropping in next to the .exe?
11:42:29Araqyup
11:42:54euantorYep, that works
11:44:48Araqnow the question is whether "breaks AV software" is worse than "broken everywhere"
11:49:31dom96btw 'could not load: (ssleay64|libssl64).dll' means could not find ssleay64.dll or libssl64.dll, it doesn't mean that both have to be present.
11:49:58cheatfateAraq, i have found tool which you can use to update ssleay64.dll properly
11:50:13cheatfatebut it windows tool
11:50:18cheatfateCFF Explorer
11:50:42cheatfatei have already made a proper variant of ssleay64.dll with proper CRC
11:51:09cheatfatehttp://www.ntcore.com/exsuite.php
11:51:12def-Don't see it being detected by AV btw: https://www.virustotal.com/en/file/0552ec05f5b28b25f1b639588450f8be49f7a0a8b1e555505c311b08a26afc86/analysis/1465386599/
11:52:27cheatfatedef-, virustotal not included heuristic analysys of AVs
11:52:33cheatfateincludes
11:52:36def-ah, good to know
11:55:14euantor@dom96: Ah, I'd assumed so but I wasn't sure. Googling had brought up little to no information apart from some old IRC logs about issues with Nimble
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12:11:55lucus16Is there a formal specification of nim's syntax somewhere?
12:12:21def-lucus16: http://nim-lang.org/docs/manual.html#syntax-grammar
12:12:33lucus16Thanks
12:15:19arnetheduckAraq, should {zero,copy..}Mem be declared when compiling to JS?
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12:29:41cheatfateSo is current `devel` branch is safe?
12:29:49cheatfateand dont break anything?
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12:38:29def-Anyone know if this is an intentional change? https://bitbucket.org/lyro/strfmt/issues/5/strfmtnim-module-tests-do-not-compile
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13:08:25dom96yay, we're on the HN front page
13:09:03PMunchlink?
13:15:47Araqdef-: the 'concept' related change? yep.
13:16:05Araqconcepts are hard enough already we removed that special casing
13:16:13AraqI guess I forgot to update the docs though
13:16:40Araqarnetheduck: no.
13:16:48dom96PMunch: #2 on https://news.ycombinator.com/
13:19:25PMunchHmm, come to think of it (Keyframes comment on HN). How do you debug Nim efficiently?
13:19:48PMunchHave only used it for a small project were it sufficed with the odd print statement
13:19:59Araqwith GDB and the like.
13:20:08Araqnot optimal, but not that bad either
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13:20:22PMunchHmm, GDB will show you the C source though.
13:20:25AraqI've a GDB filter in the works that demangles Nim stuff
13:20:35Araqno, Nim generates #line directives
13:20:39PMunchAaah
13:20:41Araqit shows teh Nim source code.
13:20:46PMunchNice
13:21:06PMunchWhat'll the GDB filter do then?
13:21:13Araqdemangle the names
13:21:23Araqknow about Nim's enums and bitsets and strings and seqs
13:21:40PMunchAaah, that sounds like a nice addition
13:22:14Araqyup, it's also the only thing that'll work, ENDB is dead
13:23:47Araqbut also system.writeStackTrace is really useful for debugging
13:23:52cheatfatedom96, i'm just curious, why you are not do close(AsyncFD(f.fd)) here https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/blob/devel/lib/pure/asyncfile.nim#L317-L324 like you do with sockets
13:26:33dom96cheatfate: hrm, it seems that's a bug, it should unregister the FD
13:28:36dom96def-: very nice of you to fix those packages for 0.14.0 :)
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13:49:35Araqcheatfate: thanks I used that tool to update the DLLs.
13:49:46Araqnow everything should be fine.
13:50:23cheatfateAraq, now you can start to write viruses&trojan horses for windows on Nim :)
13:50:39arnetheduckAraq, ok, what about system/streams? looks like my little ansi_c patch is stirring up quite some trouble.. streams uses copyMem so at least parts of it cant be supported
13:51:03arnetheduckI'm guessing it all worked before because those Mem funcs were nodecl so it just happened to be silentlty ignored
13:51:28Araqpossible.
13:52:52arnetheducker, pure/streams that is
13:53:25arnetheduckstringstream uses copymem
13:53:57arnetheduckah, and filestream is already ignored for js
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13:58:23fredrik92Could we add static code analysis annotations for Nim? sth like {.notnil.} {.mayreturnnil.}, etc...?
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13:59:55fredrik92like SAL in C/C++ or JetBrains Annotations in C#
14:01:16Araqfredrik92: yeah but 'not nil' will beome the default soon
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14:06:12Araqdom96: as far as I'm concerned 0.14.2 is ready should the tests be green etc
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14:52:29namnguyenAraq, if "not nil" is the default soon, could we expect "import nil" to follow suit?
14:55:59Araqno, because it's not enough to scream loud about it
14:56:05Araqyou have to give good arguments.
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14:56:33Araqright now the argument seems to be "foo.add" is easy to reason about but when "add(foo)" is also allowed it's hard to reason about.
14:56:50Araqthat makes so little sense that it's hard to take serious.
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15:00:02namnguyenif you import nil, not so sure if you can do "foo.add" anymore.
15:00:08namnguyen"add" is not imported by default.
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15:00:45def-namnguyen: right, you can't
15:01:12namnguyendef-, so what's the argument? i missed it.
15:02:35def-some people want "from myModule import nil" as the default instead of current "import nil". then you have to specify the module explicitly like myModule.add(foo, ...)
15:03:48namnguyenyep. i've got that part so far. and i think it makes sense. that would lighten the cognitive load on the readers to know all the exported names from all the imported modules.
15:04:20Araqwhat about the cognitive load cause by pointlessly verbose code?
15:04:41Araqwhy is "where does this come from" the most important aspect when reading code?
15:04:47Araqwhat if it's not?
15:05:09Araqand how often do you need to
15:05:18namnguyenbecause the tools can resolve the name clash quickly, but the human doesn't have that capability.
15:05:31Araq*read* module.foo, module.foo, module.foo everywhere to know where it comes from?
15:06:08namnguyeni don't think the argument was about "always" write module.foo.
15:06:16namnguyenit's about making that the default.
15:06:29Araqindeed, the argument is entirely inconsistent.
15:06:42namnguyenso, one can still import the procs (or *) if they need.
15:06:49Araqbecause the consisten variant of it is so dumb that nobody sersiously suggests it
15:07:16namnguyenthe reverse is also true that if they want import nil to be the default, they could also write import nil in their code.
15:08:24namnguyenif something was so dumb, i wonder why most of the style guides suggest that dumb way.
15:08:50Araqthey don't.
15:08:51namnguyenJava: don't import *. c++: don't use namespace. python don't import *. etc.
15:09:54AraqI have no time for this nonsense.
15:10:14Araqif you think *module.add* is used in Java anywhere, so be it.
15:10:51SalewskiI wonder if foo.mymodule.add is really impossible? Maybe using another symbol than the period?
15:11:13namnguyenor from mymodule import add
15:11:51namnguyeni mean, use something so that the readers can easily tell what "add" is.
15:12:27namnguyenwhen a bunch of "add"s is possible, that's a confusing mess for the readers.
15:12:47namnguyenwhen you write it, sure you can vividly remember what it is, where it comes from, etc.
15:13:03namnguyenbut that's just like Perl.
15:14:27Araq"I want the shorter import statement to make me write more"
15:14:50Salewskinamguyen, we had that discussion just in the Forum, for most people really using Nim current state is fine!
15:15:02Araqsee how much sense this does make for you.
15:15:08Araqfor me it makes no sense.
15:15:35SalewskiAraq, quick question, are the hidden fields of Nim Objects well defined and documented somewhere? (I was thinking about the possibility to copy content of GTK widgets into a Nim object, but I guess that is silly.)
15:17:38AraqSalewski: you can count on the fact that's a single word at the start of the object
15:19:34SalewskiSad, on the bottom would be nicer for GTK, than GTK functions could accept Nim objects. So I will forget that idea.
15:20:43SalewskiOr I would need some magic address shift...
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15:57:31arnetheduckyay, https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/pull/4284 finally passes
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16:13:46namnguyenarnetheduck, just a nit, zeroMem is usually reimplemented to really make sure that the memory is wiped. now, i'm not sure if that's the purpose of zeroMem though.
16:13:52namnguyenoh, opps, he left
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18:44:22flyxcan I assume that getType will stay the way it is in 0.14.0 for now? or will it be reversed because it's an accidental breaking change?
18:45:00Araquh oh, good point
18:45:07Araqwe need to reverse this
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18:51:29flyxokay, then I'll wait with new NimYAML releases until it is reversed
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19:05:56Araqflyx: er, never mind, I changed my mind. this breaking changes does make the AST more consistent
19:06:03Araqso it's a good thing and needs to stay
19:06:08flyxgood.
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19:45:45Araqnamnguyen: nah, for that we have the (entirely unimplemented) ensureZeroMem() :-)
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21:00:14PMunchAnyone here know who Alexander Rødseth is?
21:00:29PMunchHe's the maintainer for Nim on Arch systems and the package is seriously lacking behind
21:00:36PMunchCurrently on version 0.13.0-3
21:02:51Araqthat surely sounds like his real name...
21:04:15PMunchYes, probably is
21:04:38PMunchI was more wondering if he was anyone in this channel
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21:09:01elroodPMunch, actually, arch's package list displays 0.14.0-1 as the latest version. are you sure the problem isn't somewhere else?
21:10:21PMunchHmm, I'm using Manjaro so it could be that it's the Manjaro repositories which lags a bit behind
21:10:32PMunchBut 0.13.0 is still older than I would expect..
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21:15:46elroodthat'd be something to bug the manjaro repo maintainers about then. it should be fairly trivial to install arch packages on manjaro, though
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21:16:00misterguyhey
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21:17:38dom96PMunch: 0.13.0 is just one version older than 0.14.0
21:17:59PMunchI had 0.13.1 installed
21:18:12PMunchBut then again I pulled from the devel branch when working on the JSON hash stuff
21:18:34PMunchSo only the 0.x.0 versions are "release" versions?
21:19:00dom96no, there just wasn't any 0.13.x releases except 0.13.0
21:24:31PMunchAaah, that makes sense
21:24:58PMunchSo I guess the Manjaro version will update in a couple days then. It's typically no more than a week behind as long as stuff is stable
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22:45:38dom96This is very interesting, a list of barrier's to D's adoption http://forum.dlang.org/post/[email protected]
22:54:42akaisora_dom96: thanks for sharing
22:55:06akaisora_i believe D is a truely innovative language, but i still dunno why i never tried it myself xD
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23:36:04k0pernicusHi guys!
23:36:40k0pernicusI'm trying to program a simplistic implementation of the BASIC programming language in Nim
23:37:00k0pernicusThe problem is... I don't know how to begin with Nim :-/
23:37:47k0pernicusIs anybody here has a similar project in Nim to show me how to do please?
23:38:30Araqwell the Nim compiler is written in itself and contains a fullblown interpreter too
23:38:49Araqcompiler/lexer.nim # the lexer
23:38:55def-k0pernicus: hi. I wrote a very simple brainfuck interpreter here: http://howistart.org/posts/nim/1
23:39:05Araqcompiler/ast.nim # the abstract syntax tree
23:39:51k0pernicusThanks Araq - to look the Nim compiler can be a great solution :-)
23:40:05Araqwell it's messy and not that idiomatic code
23:40:32k0pernicusdef-: Thanks, I wrote also a brainfuck compiler using meta-programming ;-)
23:40:37Araqthe stdlib also contains lots of parsers
23:40:41def-k0pernicus: there's also this: https://github.com/gokr/spry
23:41:10Araqparsesql, parsecsv, json parsers, html parser
23:41:42dom96I wrote this interpreter for a Forth-like language a long time ago, https://github.com/dom96/nael. The code may be slightly outdated but it should still give you a good idea of how to go about this.
23:41:51k0pernicusAraq: I will take a look, thank you :-)
23:42:08k0pernicusGreat, thanks dom96 and def- :-)
23:43:19Araqif already have some experience, go for a register based VM (compiler/vm.nim)
23:43:32Araqthese are the most fun.
23:44:56k0pernicusOh great - evaluation engine?
23:45:53Araqaye
23:47:48k0pernicusI will try to help the community for the release later - I just began to learn Nim few weeks ago...
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