<< 08-11-2019 >>

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00:03:09	rayman22201	system.dispose == system.deepDispose?
00:03:10	clyybber	rayman22201: I'd try inspecting NimMain in the C code and asyncProc__HxLX2 and perhaps the dispose/deepDispose calls. I'm too tired to catch the bug, but I think if there is an intermediate string you are gonna find it there (in asyncProc
00:03:40	rayman22201	I'm loosing you?
00:03:48	rayman22201	there is no intermediate string afaik
00:04:00	clyybber	uh sorry
00:04:05	clyybber	intermediate Buffer
00:04:15	clyybber	you wrote that as a comment in your asyncProc
00:04:16	clyybber	body
00:04:35	rayman22201	hold on. I have a newer version of that test.
00:04:55	clyybber	Heres the C code for dispose:N_LIB_PRIVATE N_NIMCALL(void, dispose__KUefff9bFSbOH8KIBUi3rSw)(tyObject_DisposableFuturecolonObjectType___Lfg2yGJjDOfBeOhIorLQ0Q** future) {
00:04:56	clyybber	nimfr_("dispose", "/tmp/Nim/lib/pure/asyncfutures.nim");
00:04:58	clyybber	nimln_(177, "/tmp/Nim/lib/pure/asyncfutures.nim");
00:05:00	clyybber	deepDispose__w5kI9bH9ai2XW0mXr3WWKtdQsystem(future);
00:05:02	clyybber	popFrame();
00:05:04	clyybber	}
00:05:06	clyybber	Sorry for the paste
00:05:12	rayman22201	http://ix.io/218n
00:05:52	rayman22201	the thing to note is that, using `assign` does the correct thing. Using `=` appears to leak.
00:06:06	clyybber	Hmm
00:07:15	clyybber	rayman22201: Theres one
00:07:22	clyybber	"best" way to find out
00:07:35	rayman22201	also interesting to note, is that with `=` there is an extra visit to the buffer node inside the `gc_ms.nim` "forAllChildren" proc
00:08:19	clyybber	Diff the outputted C code of the leaking and non leaking variants
00:08:25	rayman22201	ohhh. That C code you pasted is a red herring
00:08:31	clyybber	oh
00:08:35	rayman22201	that is my own dispose I wrote to account for a different bug
00:08:39	clyybber	ah, haha
00:08:46	clyybber	Alright, I didn't check the hashes
00:09:10	rayman22201	I wrote an override specific for futures. yeah. there is a lot of context here
00:09:50	clyybber	Are you there tomorrow? I might be a bit less dumb then :p need to sleep
00:10:07	rayman22201	I will try to be :-)
00:10:14	rayman22201	gn
00:10:18	clyybber	gn8
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02:57:35	FromGitter	<kayabaNerve> Araq: A feature exists since X; a feature doesn't exist since X. Yours implements the second, although the name is just `since`, which implies the first.
02:58:17	FromGitter	<kayabaNerve> Although narimiran summed it up perfectly when the discussion occurred.
02:58:41	FromGitter	<kayabaNerve> Can I suggest `removed` for a feature which no longer exists since X.Y?
02:59:28	FromDiscord	<Rika> Removed sounds like the next step after deprecated
02:59:32	FromDiscord	<Rika> Which is nice
03:00:03	FromGitter	<kayabaNerve> @arnetheduck: Thanks for the explanation. I don't have a Mac either and didn't mean to judge; I just know Linux and Mac are decently similar so I was surprised you picked such a foreign target over a similar target.
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03:50:27	kevin5	👑
03:57:19	kevin5	0
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04:47:53	hemite	Hello, is there an editor that has great nim support, including debugging ( callstack, breakpoints, etc )?
04:48:18	hemite	I know these are all obviously available separately, I was just wondering if there was one editor with everything included
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04:55:22	FromGitter	<kayabaNerve> The most popular editor with Nim developers is MS VS IIRC. It also has the most support for Nim. No idea about its feature list for Nim.
04:55:52	hemite	Thanks, I was looking at that but it didn't seem like debugging support was there yet
04:56:06	hemite	other than that it looked fairly complete
04:56:07	FromGitter	<kayabaNerve> Yep. That and rename are still 'TODO'
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05:31:59	FromDiscord	<treeform> does any editor has good nim debugging support?
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06:33:06	Araq	kayabaNerve: I think the common name for it is "obsolete"
06:33:57	Araq	but it means we need to keep cruft even longer than we currently do, so it's not really desirable for us
06:36:02	GordonBGood	Araq: I have two issues to discuss with you to do with destructors: one fairly serious (I think) and one not so important...
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06:37:06	GordonBGood	The serious one first: we can't seem to "new up" a ref to an object that has a custom destructor: https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=219d
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06:37:38	GordonBGood	Error: the destructor that is turned into a finalizer needs to have the 'nimcall' calling convention
06:37:39	narimiran	@kayabaNerve ("A feature exists since X; a feature doesn't exist since X. Yours implements the second"): umm, no, it implements the first one
06:38:42	GordonBGood	This isn't a problem later when finalizers are eliminated from RTTI, but we need to support it for now for the legacy stuff
06:39:30	GordonBGood	Should I do an issue for this?
06:42:00	GordonBGood	Second issue isn't so big because it's rarely needed and there is a neat workaround...
06:42:45	Araq	how is this serious? the destructor must be '.nimcall'
06:43:15	GordonBGood	I made the destructor `.nimcall` and still get the error
06:43:36	Araq	you also made it .inline
06:43:55	Araq	most likely the backend check is wrong, very simple to fix
06:44:34	Araq	ccgexprs.nim line 1217
06:44:37	Araq	bt.destructor.typ.callConv != ccDefault -->
06:44:49	Araq	bt.destructor.typ.callConv notin {ccDefault, ccNimcall}
06:45:04	GordonBGood	Sorry, you are right, taking out the `.inline` makes it work, and then `.nimcall` is the default
06:45:16	Araq	no
06:45:23	Araq	sorry, there is no ccNimcall
06:45:35	Araq	there only is ccDefault and it's the same as .nimcall
06:45:48	Araq	so yeah, no bug here
06:47:00	GordonBGood	Yes, I was looking at that line, but didn't want to start mucking about without consulting - I should have thought that `.inline` means there is no call at all (maybe), so of course it isn't definitely `.nimcall` - sorry
06:48:03	GordonBGood	Okay, maybe the less serious issue is nothing as well: has to do with "Error: internal error: destructor turned out to be not trivial"...
06:49:56	GordonBGood	https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=219f
06:50:38	Araq	internal errors are bugs
06:51:14	GordonBGood	The use case would be if one wanted to force an immediate destruction, but as you see there is a nice work around that doesn't even need the thing to be destroyed to be a var
06:53:18	GordonBGood	The error is coming from the same genDestructor you had me look at before
06:57:38	GordonBGood	^Sorry, genDestroy
06:58:28	GordonBGood	Looks like we should add some logic there to handle "non-trivial destructors" rather than erroring out?
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07:09:12	GordonBGood	And maybe also not letting calling default destructors do nothing when called, letting the destruction happen at the end of the proc
07:10:55	GordonBGood	As I said, there could be a use case where the user wants to force immediate destruction
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07:54:39	Araq	I'm not a fan of wondering about other valid use cases when we have real, hard bugs to fix
07:58:20	GordonBGood	Well, I wasn't wondering, I actually thought I had a need for this
07:59:40	GordonBGood	It's still a bug, even if it doesn't come up too often, as most won't call `=destroy` directly other than writing custom destructors, which may be not necessary too often when we are through
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08:00:26	GordonBGood	But when writing custom destructors for nested things such as objects that contain objects, it could come up...
08:01:03	GordonBGood	If you don't want to worry about it now, I can just file an issue and we can come back and look at it later when things stabilize to do with destructors
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08:01:25	GordonBGood	If it's a bug, it should be noted somewhere
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08:04:00	GordonBGood	It came about because of my trying to trace my problems with closure assignments/moves/destructors and RC, and trying to emulate what closures do without using ref's
08:04:24	GordonBGood	If that worked, then the problem is the tyRef one you are working on
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08:13:30	PMunch	Just pushed a new version of nimlsp that does away with the git submodule stuff :)
08:19:10	PMunch	But apparently the nimble pre-build hook doesn't work..
08:19:23	PMunch	So it needs to be run manually..
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08:24:03	Araq	PMunch: what were the downsides of submodules?
08:24:42	PMunch	Well, mostly that the submodule had to be the same version as the Nim that was compiling the project
08:25:19	PMunch	Now it finds the installed Nim version that you're using and compiles from its sources instead :)
08:25:30	PMunch	So the build process is much easier
08:25:58	Araq	ok :-)
08:26:11	Araq	is there an agreement on https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/pull/12599 being better than my solution?
08:26:20	PMunch	If the "before install"/"before build" hooks worked correctly it would basically "just work" and you could to "nimble install nimlsp" without any further hassle
08:27:04	Araq	what does "worked correctly" mean?
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08:28:07	PMunch	Well they don't seem to run at all
08:28:41	PMunch	You can do nimble build and it will fail. Run the command in the before build section manually and it works just fine
08:28:59	PMunch	Or explicitly run the task that does the same thing before building
08:30:14	PMunch	Example: http://ix.io/219x
08:30:15	disbot	^ play at https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=219x 😏
08:31:22	PMunch	Araq, what was your outplace solution by the way? Haven't kept track
08:32:09	Araq	it's a.outplace(sort()) vs outplace(sort(a)) <-- my solution
08:32:38	Araq	clybber's works better for chaining and doesn't use 'untyped' as the first argument so it also works better with overloading
08:32:49	Araq	my solution is more logical :P
08:33:04	PMunch	Oh yeah, then I'd definitely prefer clybbers version :P
08:33:40	PMunch	I've been anoyed that chaining where the first argument was a `var` didn't work for the longest time
08:34:02	Araq	maybe we should extend it to: a.outplace(sort)
08:34:13	Araq	doesn't look as weird then
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08:34:24	PMunch	Well preferably you should be able to do a.outplace(sort(reversed = true))
08:34:40	PMunch	ie pass other arguments to the procedure
08:35:17	PMunch	Kinda like how dot-chaining works normally, just insert the argument as the first element
08:35:20	FromGitter	<zacharycarter> curious Araq - is https://github.com/Araq/araqsgc something that is going to continue to evolve, or is it just an experiment or is it usable and will stay as is
08:35:22	FromGitter	<zacharycarter> ?
08:35:57	PMunch	Oh I see that it already works this way, neat!
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08:37:50	Araq	zacharycarter: maybe I'll continue the work but the primary focus is on https://github.com/nim-lang/RFCs/issues/177
08:38:06	FromGitter	<zacharycarter> 👍 thanks!
08:38:29	FromGitter	<zacharycarter> networking code for the RTS I'm making is coming along
08:38:43	PMunch	Oh cool
08:38:48	FromGitter	<zacharycarter> I already have map rendering prototyped so hopefully soon I'll have something to show
08:38:54	Araq	so yeah, if you want to know what is going on, now it's documented in the RFCs
08:39:07	FromGitter	<zacharycarter> I need to pay more attention to them
08:39:32	Araq	and with yesterdays' RFC I consider them complete, need a Nim2020 milestone for them
08:42:10	Araq	PMunch: how about a.outplace(sort, more, args, here)
08:42:34	Araq	then it's clear (maybe?) that we construct the call from sort(copyOf(a), more, args, here)
08:42:41	Araq	well...
08:43:07	Araq	a.outplace(sort(it, arg1, arg2))
08:43:31	Araq	we have 'it' as an idiom
08:48:08	PMunch	Hmm, that is of course also an option
08:48:56	PMunch	I'll probably make myself an operator like `.!` to do this for me anyways. So I can do a.!sort(arg1, arg2)
08:49:16	Araq	mratsim has a point though, outplace is a function tranformator; outplace(reverse)(a)
08:56:48	FromGitter	<alehander92> i wonder if you can do
08:56:49	FromGitter	<alehander92> inplace
08:57:29	FromGitter	<alehander92> which injects the argument as a result variable
08:57:33	FromGitter	<alehander92> and counts on RVO
08:58:03	Araq	inplace is much more complex
08:58:26	FromGitter	<alehander92> but probably not yeah, as usually people init explicitly the new result and add to it
08:58:44	Araq	usually you need it to rewrite all 'result = f(result)' where 'f' is recursive
08:59:28	FromGitter	<alehander92> yeah
08:59:52	Araq	layering FP on top of optimized imperative code works well, extracting optimized imperative code out of FP is harder
09:02:19	FromGitter	<alehander92> that's true
09:02:34	FromGitter	<alehander92> which reminds me of the iterator chaining question, i saw a comment somewhere these days
09:04:58	FromGitter	<alehander92> can't really find it uh
09:06:37	FromGitter	<alehander92> ah this topic https://forum.nim-lang.org/t/5458
09:06:59	FromGitter	<alehander92> i just saw people recommending zero-functional and wanted to point out that it just doesnt solve this fully
09:08:16	FromGitter	<alehander92> because its hard to extend to use with a custom function (even if @michael72 did amazing dsl-s to help exactly with making it work for custom functions) but still it seems much harder than just defining a normal nim proc/iterator
09:09:23	FromGitter	<alehander92> so some kind of working iterator chaining is still the only actual solution in my mind (with better borrowing maybe the aliasing wouldnt be such a big deal)
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09:12:07	FromGitter	<alehander92> hemite, the debugging support in vscode should be kinda there iirc (especially if using the nim-gdb.py script in your debug config), just dont know if there is an example config somewhere
09:15:09	Araq	I live in costs-vs-benefits land. What's proposed is usually very costly and in the end the benefits are minor. I don't see how many more ways one can need in order to avoid writing an explicit 'for' loop.
09:16:10	Araq	I wrote SQL queries that were pages long with nested joins, all "declarative". you know what I would have preferred? a 'for' with accumulator variables.
09:16:42	FromGitter	<alehander92> well, you can say that for almost any abstraction honestly
09:17:10	Araq	no, I'm talking about the general desire to nuke 'for' + 'if'
09:17:32	Araq	I don't mind them, they are simpler, more powerful and more predictable.
09:17:41	FromGitter	<alehander92> but chaining iterators does not mean you nuke for + if
09:17:46	FromGitter	<alehander92> it means you get more powerful for + if
09:18:58	FromGitter	<alehander92> because you can loop over exactly the shape/result you want e.g. map + zip or map + filter
09:19:28	FromGitter	<alehander92> and of course, sometimes for + if is simpler, sometimes the other option might seem simpler
09:21:28	FromGitter	<alehander92> but i dont think thats a good motivation, because independently of this opinions, nim already provides ⏎ two(!) versions of some of those constructs in sequtils (map/filter etc mapIt/filterIt etc) and both of them lead to people using them but not very efficiently
09:22:13	FromGitter	<alehander92> so the cat is out of the bag, might as well make this more efficiently composable and extensible a bit
09:23:54	Araq	yeah and we also already have a macro system, so let's extend it to a compiler plugin system. Or let's extend it to all for arbitrary symbol lookups
09:24:41	PMunch	Hmm, can you turn hints off in the config.nims file?
09:24:48	Araq	what you need to understand is when we're doing X we are *not* doing Y. And Y might benefit more users or address a more pressing problem.
09:26:22	FromGitter	<alehander92> i am not saying to do it now, just to not dismiss it completely as a possible feature
09:28:14	FromGitter	<alehander92> maybe it would be easier to make a different better 3rd party solution in a while
09:29:01	Araq	speaking of which, can I steal your for loop expressions? is it ready for the stdlib?
09:31:05	FromGitter	<alehander92> as i said before , i stole them of some of your test examples iirc
09:32:31	PMunch	Yay, SolitudeSF made a better version of the config for nimlsp. So now "nimble install nimlsp" should work :)
09:36:01	FromGitter	<alehander92> and this version of b3liever https://github.com/alehander92/comprehension/pull/1/files
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09:36:39	FromGitter	<alehander92> has a bit more clear/robust impl
09:36:44	FromGitter	<alehander92> but it offers a different api
09:37:08	FromGitter	<alehander92> so you should decide on which api looks better for `sugar`
09:37:56	FromGitter	<alehander92> i think his impl can still be adapted to the inline api and the opposite (mostly i want to ensure we can collect into tables/sets not only seq)
09:40:22	PMunch	Looking at nimterlingua, how does that actually work?
09:40:40	PMunch	Like how does it do replacement on unmodified code?
09:48:29	Araq	alehander42: sorry, but what are the differences?
09:49:48	Araq	never mind
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09:51:46	Araq	yeah I want the 'collect' thing. turns statements into expressions that support indentation
09:52:52	Araq	instead of Python's weird "let's squash it into one line and hope for the best"
09:54:52	Mister_Magister	!eval echo "hello"
09:54:56	NimBot	hello
09:56:00	endragor	> Error: interpretation requires too many iterations
09:56:03	endragor	> MaxLoopIterations* = 10_000_000
09:56:16	endragor	love those magic constants in the compiler :)
09:57:17	Araq	endragor: what else to do? the halting problem is a nasty one
09:59:45	PMunch	Just leave it looping?
10:00:03	PMunch	The user could abort it if they suspected an infinite loop
10:00:06	endragor	Araq: I think hanging would be better than this. Right now the only way I can fix this is by modifying the constant in compiler it seems.
10:00:22	endragor	Yeah, I agree with PMunch
10:00:44	Araq	at least nimsuggest definitely needs this protection
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10:01:52	Araq	endragor: what are you doing that requires 10 million iterations though?
10:02:04	Mister_Magister	!eval while 1: echo "hello"
10:02:06	NimBot	Compile failed: /usercode/in.nim(1, 7) Error: type mismatch: got <int literal(1)> but expected 'bool'
10:02:15	Mister_Magister	!eval while true: echo "hello"
10:02:31	Mister_Magister	yay killed it
10:02:39	NimBot	Compile failed: <no output>
10:02:44	Mister_Magister	xd
10:02:45	endragor	Araq: using https://github.com/PMunch/protobuf-nim, which parses protobuf specs in compile time
10:03:19	Araq	maybe we can make this limit for every single loop but not for nested loops combined
10:05:54	PMunch	!eval echo "I'm not dead yet!"
10:05:58	NimBot	I'm not dead yet!
10:06:15	endragor	If this is mainly a nimsuggest problem, I'd rather have a compiler option for max loop iterations, but default to infinite. nimsuggest would then use this option. As a user, I don't see a problem in long loops in compile time
10:06:56	PMunch	TBH I should switch out the parser in protobuf-nim
10:07:09	PMunch	That's what causes the deep recursion
10:07:17	endragor	PMunch: I'm still not settled on whether I'll use the library :) But worst case I'll probably just heavily modify it
10:07:25	PMunch	Zevv, you up for another parsing challenge?
10:08:14	PMunch	What are you using this for endragor?
10:09:07	endragor	PMunch: er.. for protobuf-based communications? :)
10:10:32	Zevv	PMunch: pretty busy with $stuff these days, but do tell
10:11:10	PMunch	endragor, haha well that I could guess
10:11:25	PMunch	Zevv, I'm looking to replace the parser in protobuf-nim
10:11:49	PMunch	So I need something to parse protobuf syntax, preferably into the same format it uses today
10:12:19	Zevv	that should be fairly trivial
10:12:59	Zevv	https://developers.google.com/protocol-buffers/docs/proto is that the right one?
10:13:34	endragor	Zevv: https://developers.google.com/protocol-buffers/docs/proto3
10:13:40	Zevv	thanks
10:14:08	PMunch	Yeah, the version 3 one
10:14:23	PMunch	This is how the parsing is done today: https://github.com/PMunch/protobuf-nim/blob/master/src/protobuf/private/parse.nim
10:14:38	PMunch	And this is the type it parses it into: https://github.com/PMunch/protobuf-nim/blob/master/src/protobuf/private/decldef.nim
10:14:44	Zevv	that's not too bad, is it?
10:15:13	PMunch	No it shouldn't be too difficult
10:16:12	Zevv	but why replace the current impleemntation then?
10:19:47	Araq	this ... is not how to parse stuff :P
10:20:10	endragor	Yeah it takes > 10 mil iterations for a fairly trivial protocol spec.
10:21:13	PMunch	Yeah.. It's not great
10:21:40	PMunch	I mean it works, but that's about the nicest thing I can say about it :P
10:23:15	Zevv	fair enough :)
10:26:20	FromGitter	<mratsim> seems like you need more monads
10:27:38	Araq	to be fair though, we don't know if a different parser would avoid the VM limit
10:34:15	FromGitter	<alehander92> Araq but then how do you hint you need a set/table/other collection
10:34:20	FromGitter	<alehander92> as a result of the comprehension
10:38:57	FromGitter	<alehander92> we can just have collectSet / collectTable or collect[set]: / collect(set):
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10:39:40	FromGitter	<alehander92> ah sorry nvm, i realized here its done with the shape of `it` as well
10:39:53	FromGitter	<alehander92> however ..
10:39:58	FromGitter	<alehander92> we can do it generically ..
10:40:25	FromGitter	<alehander92> we can just have `it` be either `v` or `{k: v}` / in the block of code
10:40:54	FromGitter	<alehander92> and accept any typeclass in `collect[typ]:` with seq as default
10:41:27	FromGitter	<alehander92> and just require `init` + inc/adder implementations for the type
10:41:43	FromGitter	<alehander92> so we have those by default for seq/set/table
10:41:46	Araq	maybe.
10:41:53	FromGitter	<alehander92> and if somebody wants to support his own seq or class
10:42:05	FromGitter	<alehander92> he just overloads 1-2 primitives for it and its ready
10:43:02	FromGitter	<alehander92> this can be done with minimal changes to the b3liever PR
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11:25:47	FromDiscord	<kodkuce> so if i want to play with jester should i wait this 1.2 new magic or am i cool allready
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11:36:27	FromGitter	<mratsim> @alehander92 that's what rust is doing with their inline iterator chaining
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11:45:45	FromGitter	<alehander92> @mratsim ?
11:46:45	FromGitter	<alehander92> (i mean, which of the things we discussed in particula)
11:48:52	FromGitter	<alehander92> ah, they do have their `collect` indeed
11:49:47	FromGitter	<alehander92> of course yeah, the idea of `collect` on the end of an iterator chain and for our comprehension is relatively similar but orthogonal
11:51:39	FromGitter	<alehander92> but nim's collect is about the return type contract: it can easily add a `for` if you just pass a iterator(chain), but this is overally something that `for` is responsible for
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11:55:43	FromGitter	<alehander92> i remember @timotheeocur had his own idea of how to implement this on top of almost existing nim but i have to check it out some day
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12:01:17	FromDiscord	<kodkuce> so should i w8 1.2 will async be rewritten or whatever, and @GooRoo or @manterolat make a text chanel nim-newbs or nim-help for simple questions i noticed people here ask questions form time to time but insted answer get spam of you all talking about uber smart issues atm heppening we newbs dont get 🙂
12:02:39	Araq	kodkuce: async works well, we're working on making threading easier
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12:04:47	FromDiscord	<kodkuce> ye but i know you mention seqsv2, then something about async not working with newruntime i think, then soemthign about iterators duno anymore
12:05:10	FromDiscord	<kodkuce> like is say mostly i see like Matrix magic letters falling down this chat 🙂
12:08:08	PMunch	Araq, well most parsers aren't as recursive as that
12:15:19	FromGitter	<alehander92> kodkuce sorry, threaded conversations would be cool for that indeed
12:15:37	FromGitter	<alehander92> what do you want to do ? a web app ?
12:16:50	FromDiscord	<kodkuce> me, wanted to try to finish a multyplayer server for dumb games, like poker pool ectera
12:17:43	FromGitter	<alehander92> make it for smart games, as chess and go :P
12:18:50	FromGitter	<alehander92> using async/await in general wouldn't change soon
12:19:17	FromGitter	<alehander92> if you need more special stuff like awaiting other threads, then you need a workaround
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12:28:23	narimiran	anybody here having 32-bit OS and some free time to help me debug something?
12:29:57	narimiran	there's a strange bug in 1.0.x (not in devel) that happens only on 32-bit, and i cannot pinpoint what exactly went wrong
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12:36:51	FromGitter	<mratsim> setting up a VM is probably faster ;)
12:37:10	FromGitter	<mratsim> I have a raspberr Pi with 32-bit raspbian but no time :/
12:38:01	FromGitter	<alehander92> you should be able to run 32bit programs
12:38:12	FromGitter	<alehander92> in some cases
12:39:47	narimiran	@alehander92 i just need to test what some `shr`'s and bit `and`'s produce on 32-bit OS
12:40:47	narimiran	@mratsim can i prepare everything, so you only need to copy/paste and do `nim c -r`? if not, i guess setting up a VM is what i'll do
12:43:58	FromGitter	<mratsim> prepare everything yes, you can even open an issue on https://github.com/status-im/nim-stint as it would be the library most impacted by that
12:44:12	FromGitter	<alehander92> you can do it online i think
12:46:30	FromDiscord	<mratsim> only if we had godbolt :p
12:47:33	FromGitter	<alehander92> yea i actually tried it
12:47:44	FromGitter	<alehander92> but i cant seem to find a 32bit gcc?
12:47:50	FromGitter	<alehander92> otherwise it doesnt matter
12:47:54	FromGitter	<alehander92> you can --cpu:i386
12:48:04	FromGitter	<alehander92> and just try the related c code
12:48:10	FromGitter	<alehander92> but maybe it depends on a lot of nimbase
12:48:41	narimiran	@alehander92 @kaushalmodi already suggested me `c --cpu:i386 --passC:-m32 --passL:-m32` the other day, but that does not reproduce the bug :/
12:50:14	solitudesf	narimiran, whats the snippet you need to test?
12:51:11	narimiran	solitudesf: this is what fails: http://ix.io/21an — if you can reproduce the fail, i'll create some more specific test case
12:51:12	disbot	^ play at https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=21an 😏
12:52:21	narimiran	gah, i changed the example while playing, wait a bit
12:53:03	Zevv	PMunch: it's not particulary pretty: http://ix.io/21ao
12:53:04	disbot	^ play at https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=21ao 😏
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12:53:30	narimiran	this is the example as seen in 1.0.x branch: http://ix.io/21ap
12:53:31	disbot	^ play at https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=21ap 😏
12:53:43	FromGitter	<alehander92> zevv, npeg looks fantastic
12:54:13	FromGitter	<alehander92> btw i think .. nim should recognize a literal is in given range
12:54:14	FromGitter	<alehander92> somehow
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12:54:44	FromGitter	<alehander92> is it too hard for the sem checker to match those cases
12:55:00	solitudesf	narimiran, runs fine on my pi
12:55:29	narimiran	solitudesf: is that nim devel (1.1.1) or nim stable (1.0.x)?
12:55:33	solitudesf	ah
12:55:39	solitudesf	yes, let me switch to stable
12:59:38	clyybber	Araq: Doing the checking in sem and the transformation in transf.nim seems a bit like a waste. Ideally I'd like to do the checking and store the result somewhere so that transf can pick it up?
12:59:45	clyybber	Where should I do that?
13:02:29	solitudesf	narimiran, runs fine with 1.0.0 and 1.0.2
13:02:45	narimiran	solitudesf: huh, that's strange
13:03:09	narimiran	it continuously fails on 32-bit travis and azure pipelines
13:05:09	narimiran	i can get rid of the symptom (failing runnable examples), but i was intrigued by the cause.
13:05:33	narimiran	but if it isn't reproducible even on 32-bit, then i have no idea what might be causing this
13:07:09	FromGitter	<zacharycarter> do you still have to initialize tables?
13:07:13	narimiran	no
13:07:22	FromGitter	<zacharycarter> that's what I thought - okay thanks
13:14:23	PMunch	endragor, can you check if Zevvs parser works on your file?
13:14:44	Zevv	endragor: or please send me your file
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13:28:26	PMunch	Araq, is there a way to check the recursion depth?
13:28:34	PMunch	I mean since it's tracked anyways
13:31:59	FromDiscord	<Aidiakapi> Is there a way to print at compile-time from a macro expansion? The `echo` commands inside of the macro body don't seem to go anywhere.
13:32:01	FromDiscord	<Aidiakapi> Is there a way to print at compile-time from a macro expansion? The `echo` commands inside of the macro body don't seem to go anywhere?
13:32:21	FromDiscord	<Aidiakapi> Is there a way to print at compile-time from a macro expansion? The `echo` commands inside of the macro body don't seem to go anywhere.
13:32:25	PMunch	Echos inside macros should work fine
13:32:43	PMunch	And by the way, please don't edit your message on Discord, it sends a completely new copy to IRC :P
13:33:59	FromDiscord	<Aidiakapi> Ah, I see, regardless, it's not actually showing up. The macro runs, but the echo isn't shown
13:34:48	PMunch	Do you have an example?
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13:35:59	FromDiscord	<Aidiakapi> `macro foo(data: untyped): untyped = echo "hello"; assert(5 == 6)`
13:36:07	PMunch	https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=21aB
13:36:29	PMunch	Try that, if you switch to "Showing: debug" you will see the echo from the macro
13:37:50	FromDiscord	<Aidiakapi> I think it's actually nimble hiding it, when I added the error to the macro, it does show the message, but without it, it's just "everything fine, moving on"
13:38:27	PMunch	Oh right, yeah Nimble takes all the output from compilation.
13:39:36	FromDiscord	<Aidiakapi> That's mildly annoying, but alright, thanks :)
13:39:50	solitudesf	--debug flag in nimble shows compiler output
13:40:15	PMunch	Hmm, it would be cool if there was some way you could tell nimble that something should be output
13:41:34	FromDiscord	<Aidiakapi> Thanks! `--debug` did it
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13:49:12	FromGitter	<Vindaar> so random performance puzzle for you: I have proc `f1` and `f2`. They each run fast on their own. `f3` which is just `f1(); f2()` is fast too. But `f4` which has the bodies of `f1` and `f2` below one another is 6 times slower than `f3`. What the heck?
13:50:09	Araq	Vindaar: instruction cache problems?
13:50:50	disruptek	not really surprising.
13:50:54	Araq	clyybber: we don't do that, instead do the transformation in sem and macros can pick it up
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13:55:08	FromGitter	<Vindaar> @Araq no clue. I barely know what instruction cache problems are. I guess I have some reading to do... :)
14:01:28	clyybber	Araq: The problem is the new/reset/default/declared variables transformation. IMO it doesn't make sense to do those in sem, so why do any transformation in sem?
14:02:15	clyybber	Vindaar: Compare the asm?
14:02:58	shashlick	Anyone uses znc here?
14:03:53	shashlick	Where do you host if you do
14:05:03	Araq	clyybber: huh? new/reset/default?
14:05:10	FromGitter	<Vindaar> @clybber I'm playing around with `perf` right now, but I'm fighting it rather than learning stuff about my code so far
14:06:13	clyybber	Araq: Well if someone does new(someVar) , someVar should have its default fields set up
14:06:25	kungtotte	n0---
14:06:26	clyybber	Similarily for reset(someObj)
14:06:31	FromGitter	<iffy> Is it possible on Windows to compile a 32-bit executable with mingw64? I'm doing this `C:\nim\bin\nim.exe c --threads:on --tlsEmulation:off --cpu:i386 -d:release --opt:speed nimsrc\main.nim` and got `size of array 'Nim_and_C_compiler_disagree_on_target_architecture' is negative`
14:10:04	Mister_Magister	!eval echo true == "what"
14:10:06	NimBot	Compile failed: /usercode/in.nim(1, 11) Error: type mismatch: got <bool, string>
14:10:11	Mister_Magister	hm
14:10:27	Mister_Magister	according to php result is true :P
14:10:35	Mister_Magister	hard typed languages ftw
14:10:38	Mister_Magister	nim ftw
14:10:39	narimiran	Mister_Magister: last time i checked, nim was not php
14:10:52	Mister_Magister	narimiran: just was wondering what nim will do
14:11:04	narimiran	just like you cannot do `while 1`, `if mySeq`, etc.
14:11:14	FromDiscord	<Rika> nim does not have truthiness
14:11:16	Mister_Magister	mhm
14:11:22	PMunch	Hmm, can you inject a defer with a template?
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14:19:26	FromGitter	<jason_koch_twitter> @Vindaar are you able to share a code snippet / repro?
14:20:15	PMunch	What I'm trying to do is wrap some C procedure that returns a pointer that needs to be freed, and then free it automatically (I make sure that I don't keep the pointer around).
14:24:28	FromGitter	<Vindaar> @jason_koch_twitter sure, give me a few minutes
14:27:08	disruptek	PMunch: you can just use the template to wrap a defer followed by the body. i do this for the scenario you describe.
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14:31:17	FromGitter	<Vindaar> @jason_koch_twitter here you go: https://github.com/Vindaar/ggplotnim/tree/weirdFastSlow/bookPlots
14:31:41	FromGitter	<Vindaar> oh, that `bookPlots` at the end wasn't supposed to be there, he
14:34:23	FromGitter	<kaushalmodi> @iffy I use `--cpu:i386 --passC:-m32 --passL:-m32` to build 32-bit .so's from Nim on RHEL 6.8
14:34:37	FromGitter	<kaushalmodi> https://scripter.co/notes/nim/#compiling-in-32-bit-mode
14:35:17	FromGitter	<kaushalmodi> In Nim code, I have this check to know what mode compilation happened: `when sizeof(int)==8: # 64-bit compilation`
14:35:33	FromGitter	<iffy> Thanks @kaushalmodi I tried that and was getting `cannot find -lmsvcrt` and other errors like that
14:35:55	FromGitter	<iffy> I seem to be having success with `--cc:vcc` though it's much slower than mingw
14:36:04	FromGitter	<kaushalmodi> I use gcc
14:36:14	FromGitter	<kaushalmodi> Not much familiar with compiling Linux on Windows
14:36:51	FromGitter	<kaushalmodi> @iffy May be this deserves a bug report?
14:37:45	FromGitter	<jason_koch_twitter> > oh, that bookPlots at the end wasn't supposed to be there, he ⏎ ⏎ @Vindaar was that your issue?
14:38:29	narimiran	@vindaar this is the file, right? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-ZbrtoSuzw
14:38:32	narimiran	oops
14:38:37	narimiran	https://github.com/Vindaar/ggplotnim/blob/55b5bc7e771caeee88f1fcef93cb72f63ed5d40d/bookPlots/weirdFastSlow.nim
14:39:10	FromGitter	<iffy> @kaushalmodi maybe? I don't really know what's happening with my stuff right now, though. If I can get a minimum reproducing example, I'll file a bug.
14:40:28	FromGitter	<Vindaar> @jason_koch_twitter no, I just meant I didn't want to include that in the path of the url, becasue I changed the readme of the repo on that branch to explain which file it is :D
14:40:38	FromGitter	<Vindaar> yes @narimiran
14:40:50	FromGitter	<kaushalmodi> @iffy You probably need a "dual target" mingw? https://stackoverflow.com/a/19346426/1219634
14:42:32	FromGitter	<iffy> I'm using the 64-bit mingw from https://nim-lang.org/install_windows.html
14:42:41	FromGitter	<iffy> So, maybe I need the 32-bit one, too
14:42:50	FromGitter	<iffy> (or a dual target one)
14:43:00	FromGitter	<kaushalmodi> sounds like it
14:43:37	FromGitter	<kaushalmodi> you seem to have only 64-bit versions of those libs like *msvcrt*
14:44:02	narimiran	@vindaar ok, i can reproduce it on my machine too
14:46:24	FromGitter	<Vindaar> yay! thanks for testing
14:47:00	narimiran	it is about 15% slower
14:47:53	FromGitter	<Vindaar> only 15% on your machine? on mine it's almost a factor of 10 slower w/ debug build and ~4 w/ danger
14:48:39	FromGitter	<jason_koch_twitter> i'm still trying to reinstall nim, lol, switched over OSs recently
14:49:04	narimiran	i have a quite old machine so it might have to do with that. i don't have all the fancy modern optimizations that you might have
14:49:25	FromGitter	<Vindaar> ah yes, maybe
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14:52:55	clyybber	Soo, Araq, any idea? I can also do it for the checks in semcheck and still do the transformation in transf. The compile time impact isn't too big I think, and its only for case objects anyways.
14:53:28	Araq	hmmm ok
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15:01:14	FromGitter	<kaushalmodi> Araq: This is what I got back when I asked my SV compiler vendor about the "client switching stacks" warning in valgrind: ⏎ ⏎ > The switching stack warning is coming when xmsim makes the dpi call (or you return). Xmsim doesn’t use a traditional c stack and it confuses valgrind when it makes c calls. You can definitely ignor that.
15:01:54	FromGitter	<kaushalmodi> and ⏎ ⏎ > Not sure why the nim gc would be impacted by the internal way xmsim does its stack. When it calls the dpi you have a normal C stack frame at that point… it confuses valgrind because valgrind is seeing the jumps, etc., and it knows something funky is going on… but your dpi code should be pretty insulated from that unless nim is trapping all mallocs, not just the ones you use, and then is trying to
15:01:54	FromGitter	... free something it doesn’t own.
15:02:29	Araq	that's not what Boehm nor Nim do
15:02:42	Araq	but both trace the stack conservatively
15:03:14	FromGitter	<kaushalmodi> "calling the DPI" above means the call to the Nim compiled proc that I call from the SV side
15:03:37	FromDiscord	<WilliamDraco> Amateur here looking for a hand with threadpool - the moment I import it, the nim check (VSCode) throws many warnings/errors re: 'imported and not used' and 'template/generic instantiation's. I haven't even done anything with it, how is just importing it breaking so much? (Although it does actually compile... just mistaken checks?)
15:05:00	PMunch	disruptek, but then I'd need to pass the body into the template
15:05:07	Araq	kaushalmodi: can you do GC_disable/GC_enable in your callback and schedule the GC at some better time
15:05:19	PMunch	Essentially adding an indent level for every call to this function
15:05:38	Araq	WilliamDraco: I'm not sure, stdlib warnings should be surpressed
15:05:44	PMunch	I guess that is the clean solution though..
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15:06:07	disruptek	PMunch: but you need to indent anyway to put the variable in a scope where defer will free it, right?
15:06:30	FromGitter	<kaushalmodi> Araq: ⏎ ⏎ > can you do GC_disable/GC_enable in your callback ⏎ ⏎ You mean call GC_disable at the very beginning of the exportc'd proc and GC_enable at the very end? ... [https://gitter.im/nim-lang/Nim?at=5dc584763f4ea333f2c5345d]
15:06:44	Araq	yes
15:06:53	FromGitter	<kaushalmodi> wouldn't above be similar to running with --gc:none?
15:06:59	PMunch	disruptek, not really. I have let x = createThePointer(); defer: c_free x
15:06:59	Araq	but then the GC must run at some time
15:08:53	FromGitter	<kaushalmodi> GC_disable/GC_enable did the trick
15:09:03	FromGitter	<kaushalmodi> though.. I did not get how to do the scheduling?
15:09:48	FromGitter	<kaushalmodi> If I have only exportc'd procs in my Nim lib, and I disable GC when they are being run, when would GC actually run?
15:10:07	disruptek	PMunch: i get it. we should probably come up with a macro to do this.
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15:10:56	Araq	kaushalmodi: I don't know, isn't there one exportc'ed proc that is actually called when there is a sane stack around...
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15:11:27	FromGitter	<kaushalmodi> each time a Nim exportc'd proc is called, it's called via the DPI-C interface in SV
15:11:41	FromGitter	<kaushalmodi> so the SV simulator does that stack switching thing each time
15:12:06	Araq	this is not a "C interface", c doesn't allow stack switching
15:12:33	FromGitter	<kaushalmodi> that means --gc:none is the best bet for now?
15:12:39	Araq	they claim it's a C interface, but it isn't. anyway, your only option then is --gc:none until --gc:destructors is ready
15:12:53	FromGitter	<kaushalmodi> and then I can try out --gc:destructors
15:12:56	FromGitter	<kaushalmodi> yes
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15:13:53	FromGitter	<kaushalmodi> so.. the "issue" I have with gc:none is that my terminal gets flooded with warns like: ⏎ ⏎ > Warning: 'setLen(result, 1)' uses GC'ed memory [GcMem]
15:14:12	FromGitter	<kaushalmodi> I can ignore those warnings I believe, but I do not know how serious those warnings are
15:17:51	disruptek	this is fine.
15:18:14	clyybber	*house starts burning*
15:18:37	narimiran	clyybber: i'll sleep fine tonight
15:18:48	clyybber	nice
15:19:22	FromDiscord	<Aidiakapi> How do you pass a slice as a function parameter, I can't seem to find it for some reason?
15:21:20	FromGitter	<Vindaar> @Adiakapi: https://nim-lang.github.io/Nim/system.html#HSlice see also the procs which take a HSlice for reference
15:21:38	narimiran	or maybe what you want is `toOpenArray`
15:21:57	FromGitter	<Vindaar> yeah, good point
15:22:07	clyybber	Araq: Damnit, actually I *must* cache/store it somewhere (I only need to store which case branches will be taken for an object constructor) since I don't have access to the caseContext in transf
15:22:09	FromDiscord	<Aidiakapi> I've actually used `Slice[char]`, but slicing a `string` just gives me a new `string` instead of a slice... 🤔
15:25:06	Araq	clyybber: I know you spent lots of effort on this already but I'm beginning to dislike this feature.
15:25:23	Araq	1. it looks vastly more complex to implement than thought.
15:25:49	Araq	2. it bites somewhat with our goals of enforcing explicit inits for 'not nil' refs.
15:26:54	Araq	3. it also bites Nim's 'alloc0' pattern. binary zero is the default value...
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15:30:03	clyybber	Araq: It's actually pretty easy to implement, but it bites itself a bit with the design of the compiler currently.
15:31:05	clyybber	2: It shouldn't affect explicit init for not nil refs at all. After all the default initialization for `var a: T` will only happen if T is an object type, not a ref object.
15:31:18	clyybber	Or at least thats what makes the most sense to do IMO.
15:31:35	*	narimiran_ is now known as narimiran
15:34:04	clyybber	the feature is also really useful. It should make range fields, embedded objects and the like much less cumbersome to use.
15:34:26	clyybber	I think it really fits into nim.
15:35:42	disruptek	you should add some tests to your pr.
15:36:03	clyybber	Yeah
15:37:29	FromDiscord	<mratsim> Maybe we need to redesign the compiler 😛
15:37:45	Araq	be my guest
15:38:22	Araq	in the long run few compilers survived but plenty of programming languages did.
15:38:58	Araq	it's why we also work on a good spec.
15:40:12	FromGitter	<mratsim> for now I'll just design a multithreading library
15:40:21	disruptek	my first nimph distribution has a >10x compression ratio. my 2nd includes npeg and is only 2.5:1. thanks, zevv.
15:40:27	FromGitter	<mratsim> then I'll design a compiler for linear algebra / machine learning
15:40:49	FromGitter	<mratsim> implemented in macros first, then with a LLVM Jit
15:41:01	FromGitter	<mratsim> and if I still have a few years left I'll see about Nim compiler
15:41:12	Zevv	disruptek: your welcome.
15:41:28	Zevv	There's a whole punch of PDF papers in the repo, that adds up
15:41:39	FromGitter	<mratsim> oh and I need to maintain arraymancer as well. yep Nope sorry, no redesign of Nim compiler for me
15:41:40	Zevv	you're
15:41:45	Araq	however, open source changes the game, apparently. CPython is still around as is Clang and GCC and FPC ...
15:41:50	FromGitter	<mratsim> I'll just ping you to ask you for new features
15:41:53	disruptek	maybe distributions should be use-only with no git history.
15:42:09	*	Vladar quit (Quit: Leaving)
15:42:23	FromGitter	<mratsim> the git hash of included package/compiler/nimble should still be available though
15:42:42	Araq	though GCC seems to lose against Clang. I read Google only supports clang extensions now
15:42:44	FromDiscord	<Chiqqum_Ngbata> Should be able to set the git depth
15:42:56	disruptek	yeah, this is dumb. disk space costs nothing.
15:43:09	disruptek	the depth is set to 1 and these are bare repositories to boot.
15:43:21	clyybber	mratsim: The compiler isn't badly designed though. It doesn't need a redesign IMO. My problem is actually really easy to phrase: I need a way to pass information from sem to transf.
15:44:24	FromDiscord	<mratsim> I was n't really criticizing the compiler, so far I managed to get may way around quite easily, except the semcheck part
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15:45:43	Araq	I think the compiler is ok, parts are terrible, parts are really good
15:45:52	clyybber	Araq: The only problem is findUsefulCaseContext for my PR
15:46:36	Araq	I have a "better design" in my head that is unproven but eventually it'll leave my head
15:46:44	disruptek	thank dog.
15:46:57	disruptek	drinking helps.
15:47:42	clyybber	Araq: WDYT of getting rid of findUsefulCaseContext and refining types inside of case branches generally?
15:48:38	FromDiscord	<treeform> Araq, how's fight with the new GC going?
15:48:53	FromDiscord	<treeform> Any news from the front?
15:49:04	Araq	treeform: https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/pull/12626
15:49:25	Araq	it's coming around, I'm beginning to understand the problems
15:49:52	FromDiscord	<treeform> Are there any docs on how to use it?
15:50:10	FromDiscord	<treeform> I tried to figure it out but got confused fast
15:50:31	Araq	https://github.com/nim-lang/RFCs/issues/177 docs are here
15:50:58	Araq	compile via --gc:destructors, don't have cycles.
15:52:03	Araq	still in alpha state. I'm trying to convince clyybber to work on it instead of on default values :P
15:52:27	clyybber	Like `int i; case i of 1..10: #Now the compiler could generally treat i like it has the type range[1..10]`
15:54:57	Araq	clyybber: I understand but you can getType() i's type so everything you do affects the bloody macro system
15:55:43	clyybber	Ugh, yeah. Well fear not. I found a way to do findUsefulCaseContext in transf easily :)
15:56:15	*	tklohna quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
15:58:50	FromDiscord	<treeform> Araq, I have not seen that rfc, thanks!
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16:20:53	clyybber	ayy, rayman22201
16:23:07	Zevv	what/whose is disbot?
16:23:47	clyybber	disrupteks
16:26:02	rayman22201	Good morning 😝
16:26:25	rayman22201	Not quite online yet. Cooking breakfast. I will be on in about an hour
16:27:36	clyybber	haha, breakfast. Its getting dark here
16:27:41	clyybber	and I hate it
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16:37:53	rayman22201	You could always come visit 😉 we have a lovely climate in the south western US.
16:39:18	shashlick	@disruptek - how easy is it to use the disbot to monitor private messages and post on a channel when one is received?
16:39:43	disruptek	it's easy, but why would you want to do that?
16:40:08	disruptek	oh, you want it to mirror to #shashlick?
16:40:16	shashlick	yep
16:40:31	shashlick	right now i use matterbridge to irc <=> slack but it doesn't do pms
16:41:49	FromDiscord	<treeform> So with the --gc:destructors we don't have to do anything? No owned refs, just have to think about cycles and iterators?
16:41:56	shashlick	so i've setup a znc so matterbridge can do what it does through znc but this tool will communicate to me if i get a pm and then i can use an irc client to connect to the znc and do talk that way
16:42:43	disruptek	that would be weird. it would make more sense to just run the bot on your irc handle and just have matterbridge pass messages to/from it.
16:43:27	disruptek	or do you not have a way to bridge to matterbridge yourself?
16:43:32	shashlick	matterbridge needs an irc server
16:43:46	shashlick	matterbridge doesn't support pm bridging
16:43:56	shashlick	but for everything else, it is great
16:44:07	shashlick	i don't need to see any FromGitter nonsense anymore
16:44:38	shashlick	so freenode <-> znc <-> matterbridge <-> slack
16:44:59	shashlick	and freenode <-> znc <-> tool
16:45:14	shashlick	where tool will post back from pm to a channel which matterbridge can then bridge over
16:45:16	shashlick	notification
16:45:39	shashlick	right now the option is freenode <-> znc <-> weechat <-> trigger <-> script to post to slack
16:46:24	disruptek	this seems pretty ridiculous to me.
16:48:27	disruptek	is the problem that the api doesn't support pm bridge or is the problem that your impl doesn't support it?
16:49:10	clyybber	the art of overengineering
16:51:02	shashlick	That's life
16:51:18	narimiran	too much of those <->'s
16:51:25	shashlick	Tell me about it
16:52:15	shashlick	I added znc last night
16:52:35	shashlick	And can use a separate account for it and call it done
16:52:43	shashlick	But I'll have no notifications
16:54:04	shashlick	How do you get notifications on your phone for irc
16:54:21	shashlick	Without running a client all the time
16:54:43	disruptek	why would i want that?
16:54:51	FromGitter	<Vindaar> findings so far: in the "slow" proc for some reason the `readCsv` call causes a crazy amount of string copies and gc collections (? I think, collectCT calls), which don't happen in the "fast" proc. Compiling with --gc:boehm makes both cases equally fast (and a tiny bit slower than the "fast" refc case)
16:55:27	disruptek	turn it off/on around the call.
16:59:57	Zevv	@endragor @pmunch here?
17:02:29	shashlick	I'm on here all the time so I want to be pm'able also
17:02:51	shashlick	Only way to do that is to have znc
17:03:16	shashlick	I'm just asking if it a small lift to get notified of pm's
17:03:56	disruptek	can you just bridge the "shashlick" (not "#shashlick") channel to something that'll alert you? that should be all it requires.
17:04:04	*	uu91 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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17:39:33	FromGitter	<mratsim> @Araq I think you missed a RFC: your plans to use Z3 to remove bound checks
17:43:31	shashlick	What does shashlick map to? Pm's won't be a channel would it?
17:43:35	disruptek	how about an rfc describing how you want user-supplied source code filters to exist?
17:44:03	disruptek	shashlick: "shashlick" is a channel holding your pms. "#shashlick" is a public channel named "shashlick".
17:44:58	*	Vladar joined #nim
17:45:00	disruptek	ie. think of it as the destination of a message.
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18:03:44	shashlick	Ok I'll try with matterbridge
18:06:43	rayman22201	@clyybber you still here? I'm finally on
18:10:47	FromGitter	<kaushalmodi> Araq
18:11:33	FromGitter	<kaushalmodi> I just asked Cadence if they can spare a license to help you debug the Nim/SV interface, and they can!
18:11:48	FromGitter	<kaushalmodi> Though, would you have time/will to try it out?
18:11:59	FromGitter	<kaushalmodi> If so, let me think how to make this work.
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18:13:59	clyybber	rayman22201: Yeah I'm here
18:14:08	lqdev[m]	can {.compileTime.} variables be used at runtime?
18:15:06	clyybber	yes, but I wouldn't rely on it
18:15:13	clyybber	It should be changed IMO
18:15:35	clyybber	lqdev[m]: Its better to use a const as a "bridge" between compile and runtime
18:15:52	rayman22201	so, where should we start?
18:16:08	clyybber	rayman22201: Diffing the C code
18:16:18	lqdev[m]	I need var because I have a table into which I insert dynamically in a macro
18:16:40	rayman22201	ok. 👍
18:16:46	lqdev[m]	guess I'll just generate some small glue to bridge the data from the compileTime table into runtime table.
18:16:58	clyybber	lqdev[m]: Yeah, and when you are finished modifying the table, asssign it to a const
18:17:31	clyybber	Ah, there might be some hickups with compiletime -> runtime for tables
18:17:38	clyybber	I'm not sure that will work
18:17:43	lqdev[m]	clyybber: I can't exactly tell when I'm finished working with the table
18:17:58	clyybber	oh
18:18:14	*	GordonBGood quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
18:18:19	clyybber	well, then just try to use it the {.compileTime.} variable at runtime
18:21:06	*	uu91 quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
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18:21:51	rayman22201	it's a noisy diff clyybber :/
18:23:06	*	fanta1 quit (Quit: fanta1)
18:23:17	clyybber	rayman22201: Oh, why?
18:23:19	rayman22201	http://ix.io/21cu
18:23:21	disbot	^ play at https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=21cu 😏
18:23:23	rayman22201	good question
18:23:52	clyybber	rayman22201: Because diff is shite
18:23:57	rayman22201	hahahaha
18:24:05	clyybber	Just cd into the cache dir
18:24:08	clyybber	and do git init
18:24:34	rayman22201	use git diff instead of unix diff?
18:24:39	clyybber	yeah :p
18:27:09	rayman22201	http://ix.io/21cw
18:27:10	disbot	^ play at https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=21cw 😏
18:27:53	rayman22201	fun fact. you can use `git diff --no-index <fileA> <fileB>` to compare two arbitrary files
18:28:21	clyybber	nice
18:29:06	clyybber	well
18:29:10	clyybber	thats still pretty big
18:29:16	rayman22201	indeed
18:29:52	clyybber	maybe use a diff viewer to see the parts that actually matter
18:31:07	clyybber	This already is much better: http://ix.io/21cw/diff
18:31:27	clyybber	but it doesn't highlight on a char level
18:32:21	rayman22201	some of the changes are just noise from the hash generation
18:32:36	clyybber	yeah, we should get rid of that
18:33:44	rayman22201	I remember arguing about the hashing when I was doing the godbolt project, but I already forgot everything about it :-P
18:35:31	rayman22201	line 205 - 213 seems interesting
18:35:46	disruptek	if you can use kitty, kitty's side-by-side diff is decent.
18:36:50	rayman22201	but I'm lazy! I don't want to install more tools :P
18:36:54	*	hoijui quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
18:37:17	disruptek	you are a win/vsc user, right?
18:37:46	clyybber	rayman22201: One small sin I did, was use an online diffing tool while working on newruntime :p
18:38:19	rayman22201	I have windows, but I use an Ubuntu VM most of the time actually :-P
18:38:33	clyybber	it worked pretty well, because it highlighted per byte, meaning it was pretty easy to identify when something actually changed and not some hash hashed hashing
18:38:40	disruptek	so what do you edit in?
18:38:45	rayman22201	vim
18:38:56	rayman22201	vim4life baby ;)
18:39:15	rayman22201	I will say, I use neo-vim. I'm somewhat modern
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18:39:33	rayman22201	what's a good online diff tool?
18:39:48	clyybber	diffchecker used to be good
18:39:52	clyybber	but its total bullcrap now
18:39:58	clyybber	they redesigned the website
18:40:24	disruptek	it doesn't matter; he doesn't want to install more tools.
18:40:49	rayman22201	:-P
18:41:08	disruptek	if you have vim installed, you might have vimdiff.
18:41:38	clyybber	rayman22201: I have a ~great~ idea
18:41:55	clyybber	we use sed to delete lines where only the hash or indentation changed
18:41:57	rayman22201	kitty is a whole damn terminal emulator disruptek :-P
18:42:11	rayman22201	I can use VS code. give me a sec
18:42:36	disruptek	if you don't care about whitespace, just turn whitespace off in the diff.
18:42:53	disruptek	i think it's -w in git diff.
18:44:03	clyybber	ah right
18:45:01	rayman22201	that didn't make much a difference
18:45:18	rayman22201	good idea in theory though
18:46:14	Zevv	too bad pmunch: Error: VM problem: too many registers required
18:46:16	rayman22201	how do I diff in vscode?
18:46:52	rayman22201	got it
18:46:57	Zevv	'meld' is a nice diff: https://meldmerge.org/
18:47:05	Zevv	give it a try
18:48:15	rayman22201	I'm using the VSCode tool now. it's pretty fancy actually
18:48:26	rayman22201	If that doesn't work I will try meld though.
18:48:27	rayman22201	thanks
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18:49:45	Zevv	yeah last time i recommend you something duuuude
18:49:49	Zevv	pffff
18:49:55	Zevv	:)
18:50:03	clyybber	*pffffffs out the window*
18:50:26	Zevv	you also got 7 inches of snow yet?
18:50:31	rayman22201	hahaha. Spoken like the true resident Dutch German :-P
18:51:30	clyybber	Zevv: No snow :(
18:51:48	clyybber	We never get anything nice. We get boring
18:51:58	clyybber	Neither particularily cold or hot or whatever
18:52:16	clyybber	but at times we get very dense fog, which is cool
18:53:07	Zevv	I love that, but's not often here
18:55:28	clyybber	I just hate how it gets dark at 6pm
18:55:47	clyybber	but thats just because of wintertime
18:56:17	Zevv	for some here it doesn't get darky in winter
18:56:18	Zevv	anymore
18:56:24	Zevv	it just stays like that all of the time
18:56:37	clyybber	wait you are in the netherlands right?
18:56:45	Zevv	'here' I mean at #nim :)
18:57:10	clyybber	i was like wtf we must be living on different earths
18:57:13	clyybber	lol
18:57:51	Zevv	I'm perfectly fine here. If I lived above the arctic circle I'd be a alcoholic
18:57:54	Zevv	only way to cope with that
18:58:00	rayman22201	Zevv lives on the moon :-P
18:58:20	rayman22201	or maybe Mars. He is definitely a Martian
18:59:13	clyybber	the vodka warms your throat
18:59:46	clyybber	in the same way as stabbing your throat with a stick warms your throat
19:00:12	FromGitter	<mratsim> you can recover from Vodka though
19:00:19	rayman22201	so, the leaking version has an extra call to `eqDestroy`. I find that interesting, but I don't see how it would cause the leak
19:00:37	narimiran	@mratsim not if you drink the right amounts :P
19:01:12	rayman22201	you have to be really desperate to drink a potatoe :-P
19:01:59	rayman22201	brb
19:02:27	clyybber	birb
19:02:37	FromGitter	<mratsim> btw how much time do you need for your test scrpt for shifts?
19:02:44	rayman22201	here are the C files if you want to try to investigate yourself https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/vWl7XMkh/mbasicAsyncNoLeaks.nim.c https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/AHS8Mvt0/mbasicAsyncLeaks.nim.c
19:03:45	narimiran	@mratsim if you're asking me, solitudesf tested a small snippet on raspberry pi, and he couldn't reproduce the fail i get on CIs. so i decided just to cure the symptom this time....
19:05:16	FromGitter	<mratsim> yes I was
19:05:45	FromGitter	<mratsim> OK sounds good, please give me consistent shifts and bit operation,, that's all
19:05:53	FromGitter	<mratsim> oh and working modulos
19:05:57	narimiran	:D
19:06:10	narimiran	just don't use 32-bit OS on 1.0.x and you'll be fine :P :D
19:06:20	narimiran	or maybe you can use even that
19:06:28	narimiran	but don't use 32-bit travis :P
19:06:36	FromGitter	<mratsim> well I had a presentation with a Raspbery Pi a month ago, live demo
19:06:41	clyybber	rayman22201: Compiling without -g/--debugger:native will yield more readable results
19:06:57	FromGitter	<mratsim> we use Azure Pipelines (previously appveyor) to test on Win32
19:06:58	clyybber	those #line directives are kinda annoying
19:07:10	FromGitter	<mratsim> yeah, the #line are super noisy
19:08:24	narimiran	@mratsim if you have some extra time, this https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=21ap is what fails on 32-bit, on version-1-0 branch
19:08:53	narimiran	this is an example from colors.nim runnableExample
19:09:25	narimiran	this (255, 0, 255) is not that, but (0, 0, 0) and i have no idea why
19:10:17	clyybber	rayman22201: This https://www.jstoolset.com/diff isnt too bad
19:13:10	FromGitter	<mratsim> I've created this issue @narimiran, https://github.com/status-im/nim-stint/issues/99
19:13:32	narimiran	i've got the notification, i'll write more details there
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19:38:12	rayman22201	I'm back.
19:38:21	*	hoijui joined #nim
19:38:24	rayman22201	good idea. I will recompile with less noisy flags
19:38:35	rayman22201	and make more coffee :-P
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19:46:03	rayman22201	other weird noise, like the "exception" struct getting declared on a different line. annoying
19:49:31	rayman22201	still not a release build, but hopefully less noise https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/k7qlGRYg/mbasicAsyncLeaks.nim.c https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/homVcvOI/mbasicAsyncNoLeaks.nim.c
19:54:41	narimiran	btw, @mratsim, have you seen https://swift.org/blog/numerics/ ?
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20:07:40	FromDiscord	<krab4t> how you do ` bitwise NOT ` or ` bitwise OR ` in nim? im lost
20:08:17	FromDiscord	<krab4t> ~ and |
20:08:42	narimiran	by using `not` and `or` :)
20:08:51	FromDiscord	<krab4t> WTF
20:11:10	narimiran	https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=21d9
20:26:55	FromDiscord	<demotomohiro> bit operators are defined in system module.
20:30:11	FromDiscord	<IanIAnIAN> stb_image is going to make me explode
20:37:21	Calinou	it'll explode into nothings
20:37:22	*	Calinou hides
20:38:05	rayman22201	clyybber: https://www.jstoolset.com/diff/053a38ab6f775ce0
20:38:23	rayman22201	I moved around some of the definitions by hand to reduce some of the noise
20:39:17	rayman22201	some interesting observations. The no leak version has `genericReset` and the leaking version does not.
20:40:54	rayman22201	the code generated for `assign` is exactly equal to the code generated for `=`. This is good lol. We know it's not the `=` implementation itself, but some other thing.
20:41:09	lqdev[m]	how much slower is -d:release with --stacktrace:on compared to just -d:release?
20:41:17	lqdev[m]	is it a substantial difference?
20:42:39	FromDiscord	<IanIAnIAN> can anyone recommend a substitute for stb_image , it just won't play nicely on my windows
20:42:47	clyybber	rayman22201: Hmm, interesting
20:43:45	rayman22201	another interesting note. the leaking version generates an `=sink` proc that does what you expect. The non-leaking version does not generate any `=sink` procs
20:44:07	rayman22201	Idk if that matters
20:44:34	Zevv	Error: internal error: (filename: "vmgen.nim", line: 179, column: 16)
20:44:38	Zevv	bwah
20:44:48	rayman22201	another big difference is the closure on line 499
20:45:23	Calinou	@IanIAnIAN what image formats do you need to support?
20:45:54	rayman22201	the `=` / leaking version generates this "safepoint" code, that the `assign` / leaking version does not
20:46:11	rayman22201	that is the biggest actual "algorithm" difference I see
20:48:24	FromDiscord	<IanIAnIAN> I want only png really
20:49:03	lqdev[m]	@IanIAnIAN try nimPNG
20:51:57	rayman22201	@Zevv you need my branch to follow along at home :-) https://github.com/rayman22201/Nim/tree/async-with-dispose
20:54:00	Zevv	oooh
20:54:19	Zevv	dude you were only going to fix flowvars, remember
20:54:34	Zevv	you will be assimilated
20:54:47	Zevv	resistance is futile
20:54:50	rayman22201	hahaha. Yup. I'm in too deep now
20:59:01	FromGitter	<alehander92> how to
20:59:28	FromGitter	<alehander92> hm
21:00:17	rayman22201	`genericReset` is only called once at the start of `NimMainModule`. It looks like the `=` version does a essentially equivalent thing using `nimZeroMem` and `=sink`
21:00:27	rayman22201	So I don't think genericReset is the culprit here
21:00:54	FromGitter	<Vindaar> if anyone is bored and wants to read a half rant / half informational / half (yeah that's 3/2) "me showing how little I know" piece about slow code, here you go: ⏎ https://gist.github.com/Vindaar/0fe9340d40e3b70c006e8b5c3c380f87
21:01:59	rayman22201	looks fascinating, will read when I'm not so in the weeds with my own code issues :-P
21:04:26	disruptek	fun, thanks.
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21:11:23	rayman22201	the safepoint stuff involves getting a reference to the current frame. but that doesn't seem relevant.
21:12:11	Zevv	Vindaar: nice read, I had similar adventures the other day, nice to see you in the same tar pit :)
21:12:17	Zevv	add a "conclusion" section to the end though :)
21:13:37	Zevv	I got some nice tips from mratsim, about code alignment. Not something that's trivial to influence, but if your code happens to be put somewhere at the border of two I cache lines stuff slows down
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21:20:25	FromDiscord	<IanIAnIAN> I find nimPNG's documentation partially unreadable, I guess that's just me
21:31:29	FromGitter	<alehander92> you should make it a blog article vindaar
21:33:41	rayman22201	after staring at this diff for an hour lol... my intuition is telling me that it may have something to do with `=sink`
21:34:17	rayman22201	That's the biggest fundamental difference I can see
21:34:33	FromGitter	<Vindaar> @Zevv: heh, nice not to be alone ;) yeah, I could add a conclusion, but the thing is I don't have one yet. It's way too late already (gotta get up at 5 am, it's 10:30pm already here). The hunt continues tomorrow and then I might add one. ⏎ @alehander92 I should. I should start writing articles anyways... We'll see!
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21:37:11	FromGitter	<kaushalmodi> @Vindaar The source is already Org, just install ox-hugo and you have a blog ;-)
21:38:23	FromGitter	<Vindaar> and about alignment and stuff. I vaguely get the idea, but I don't even have the faintest clue how that applies to code that's so far away from low level. ⏎ @kaushalmodi yes, I know :P I actually wanted to check that out because of you anyways
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21:44:41	clyybber	rayman22201: I think so too, but sink is just an assignment inside a proc basically
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21:46:23	rayman22201	I'm running out of ideas
21:46:52	rayman22201	I'm still curious about your valgrind results too....
21:47:14	rayman22201	Is it actually leaking, or is the count just broken?
21:51:06	FromDiscord	<krab4t> so this how you invert colors ` toHex(0 or not int(rgb), 6) `
21:51:37	rayman22201	side note: I'm a bit surprised `=sink` is not `=sink[T](dst, src: var T)`, to allow you to nil out the src (like a C++ move constructor)
21:52:41	rayman22201	But I guess it doesn't matter anyway since src should be destroyed right afterwards anyway...
21:52:59	FromDiscord	<krab4t> https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=21e3
21:55:01	clyybber	rayman22201: Yeah the signature of =sink is supposed to be like that.
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21:57:06	clyybber	rayman22201: I have an idea, we put it in a loop and try to make it leak really hard, (in terms of alloc/dealloc ratio)
21:57:16	clyybber	and then we check if it *really* leaks
21:58:04	rayman22201	lol
21:58:30	rayman22201	My concern with that, is what if there are other leaks from independent things
21:58:45	rayman22201	(I don't trust nim code I didn't write to not leak :-P)
22:05:34	FromGitter	<mratsim> @Vindaar you forgot the flags that remove the cfi directives in your investigation
22:09:12	FromGitter	<mratsim> @narimiran looking
22:09:30	FromGitter	<mratsim> I was expecting to see Swift for Tensorflow by Google but let's see what Apple cooked
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22:11:21	FromGitter	<mratsim> for now nothing exciting, it's just `import math`
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22:16:14	clyybber	rayman22201: Build the loop, then to verify its your code remove it and see if it (still?) leaks
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22:20:16	Araq	lqdev[m]: it is substantial, avoid it
22:21:01	rayman22201	putting some printf tracing shows that the `=` variant allocs 6 buffers but only frees 3
22:21:20	rayman22201	the assign variant allocs 2 and frees 2
22:21:30	rayman22201	something is wrong with the `=` code
22:21:31	lqdev[m]	right. how can I embed crash info for end users in my apps? so when an app crashes, they can open a github issue without having to build it from source?
22:21:50	lqdev[m]	open a github issue with a stack trace, or some other useful info.
22:22:41	rayman22201	That's for clyybber (and maybe araq)
22:22:44	Araq	there are native ways to get a stack trace but it depends on your OS
22:23:12	clyybber	rayman22201: Hmm
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22:23:33	clyybber	Araq: Where do we assign types to int literals?
22:23:58	clyybber	Because I'm getting assertion errors on bootstrapping because some int literal's type is nil
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22:30:23	Araq	magicsys.getIntLitType
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22:33:15	clyybber	Thanks, btw Araq. I remember having issues with that exact thing (nkIntLits without their type == nil) when working on another thing in the compiler.
22:33:43	clyybber	I think it was the =move PR or one ofthe injectdestructors refactorings.. can't remember
22:34:04	clyybber	But this isn't intended right?
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22:45:37	FromGitter	<Vindaar> @mratsim "forgot" implies I knew of their existence..! Thanks, I'll take a look tomorrow. ⏎ and now, good night everyone :)
22:52:04	FromDiscord	<krab4t> lqdev[m] im pretty sure you need debug symbols for that, and that magic from google's breakpad
22:52:52	rayman22201	https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/LUMG2sZG/
22:54:03	rayman22201	https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/GCj6WfcX/
22:54:26	rayman22201	the `=` version produces a lot of intermediate allocs
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22:58:59	clyybber	Which shouldn't be a problem unless they produce copies on the heap, might be worth counting those.
22:59:01	clyybber	bbl
22:59:03	clyybber	gn8
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22:59:14	rayman22201	gn
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23:21:51	FromDiscord	<exelotl> @IanIAnIAN not just you, I've written substantial stuff with nimPNG and it's like, really not obvious how to actually use it
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23:49:24	enthus1ast	any idea why a runningExamples block with `discard waitFor socket.recvFrom(MSG_LEN)` blocks forever?
23:50:17	enthus1ast	or another way i could write this that does not block :)
23:51:31	enthus1ast	mh asyncCheck but then the example is not so good ...
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