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| 01:19:58 | reactormonk | Araq, I've run the test suite with my message changes, I don't see them mentioned anywhere in the tests that fail |
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| 01:41:07 | akiradeveloper | How to switch by hostOS inside enum and case statement? |
| 01:41:39 | akiradeveloper | line 232-310 is ugly duplication https://github.com/akiradeveloper/nim-fuse/blob/master/fuse.nim |
| 01:42:11 | akiradeveloper | and because line 1504-1516 doesn't work, it fails build |
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| 01:42:45 | akiradeveloper | combination of when and others sometimes causes problem |
| 01:43:12 | flaviu | akiradeveloper: I'm not sure, but can't you just place the when *inside* the type def? |
| 01:43:42 | flaviu | when osx: FUSE_SETVOLNAME = 61;... |
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| 01:44:41 | akiradeveloper | No. enum seems to be atomic that can't be interrupted by any other syntax |
| 01:44:59 | akiradeveloper | the duplication is compromise |
| 01:45:09 | akiradeveloper | very ugly |
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| 02:18:52 | Araq | akiradeveloper: enum |
| 02:19:15 | Araq | Fuse_Lookup = (when hostOS == "macosx": 1 else: 2) |
| 02:19:18 | Araq | etc. |
| 02:20:31 | akiradeveloper | what about case statement? |
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| 03:22:25 | Varriount | Araq: Any idea what exactly is causing the C-compile Nim compiler to fail on just windows? |
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| 10:07:37 | BlaXpirit | If I don't specify a srcDir, then how can I tell nimble to install just one file |
| 10:08:20 | BlaXpirit | nvm, it's clearly written in the docs |
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| 10:18:16 | fowlmouth | Araq, duplicate of which? |
| 10:18:42 | Araq | too lazy to look it up |
| 10:18:57 | Araq | there are downsides to having 400 bugs open |
| 10:20:04 | fowlmouth | i found it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdh_L_ZIjkg |
| 10:20:13 | fowlmouth | er #1658 |
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| 13:59:30 | wb | Is the "internal error: GetUniqueType / No stack traceback available" thing a known issue? |
| 14:24:20 | Araq | wb: just fixed that. I hope. |
| 14:24:50 | wb | Alright, cool. Thanks |
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| 14:43:08 | Araq | hi plopknocker welcome |
| 14:43:26 | plopknocker | thankyou Araq |
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| 14:57:37 | def- | New article online: http://howistart.org/posts/nim/1 |
| 14:58:48 | gokr | Ooh, long one! nice |
| 15:00:15 | def- | Soon with discussions on HN and r/programming i hope: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9021244 https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/2vaxr9/how_i_start_nim_dennis_felsing/ |
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| 15:06:49 | Araq | def-: er ... you could have waited for me to fix the csources |
| 15:07:14 | Araq | but bad first impressions belong to Nim now I guess |
| 15:07:55 | def- | Araq: i actually just got home, yesterday i said when it was planned to be published |
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| 15:10:37 | gXen | nim is quite popular on hackernews: https://news.ycombinator.com/ |
| 15:10:56 | gXen | I'd say good first impressions belong to nim |
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| 15:11:42 | dom96_ | Very nice job def- :) |
| 15:11:47 | def- | dom96_: thank you! |
| 15:12:19 | dom96_ | Araq: Fix them now. It's not def-'s fault. |
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| 15:13:45 | plopknocker | what's wrong with the csources? |
| 15:14:03 | def- | plopknocker: bootstrapping on windows doesn't work |
| 15:14:13 | def- | of the devel compiler |
| 15:14:23 | plopknocker | but you can still use the installer? |
| 15:14:29 | def- | sure |
| 15:14:38 | plopknocker | :) |
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| 15:19:47 | plopknocker | love the application of AST's to compiling brainfuck, i really should start getting into ASTs with nim... |
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| 15:28:53 | Araq | dom96_: uploaded new C sources |
| 15:28:56 | Araq | please test |
| 15:29:01 | Araq | they work for me |
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| 15:32:39 | dom96_ | Araq: Awesome. Can't test right now. |
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| 15:36:18 | perturbation | What parts of the db_* interface would it make sense to have for a K/V store? I finished finding memory leaks/errors in the low-level wrapper for LevelDB (caused by PEBKAC issues ;) and so now I'm about to write a higher-level wrapper |
| 15:36:46 | perturbation | I mean, you can't really have a row if it's not a table-based DB |
| 15:37:08 | Araq | perturbation: the db_* interface isn't popular anyway |
| 15:37:49 | Araq | it belongs to the old stuff in the stdlib that I wrote for myself |
| 15:39:11 | perturbation | okay - I think I'll just play around and see what makes sense to have as an API |
| 15:40:16 | Araq | nowadays I know I should have designed it for other people instead ;-) because that's how you get good designs ... *cough* |
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| 15:41:25 | def- | Araq: nice, thanks |
| 15:48:23 | Araq | def-: tested it? |
| 15:48:30 | def- | Araq: don't have windows |
| 15:48:44 | Araq | test it on your OS then |
| 15:48:56 | Araq | it updated every C file anyway |
| 15:49:02 | Araq | so every OS is affected |
| 15:49:56 | Araq | (that's the reason we only do it reluctantly) |
| 15:50:58 | def- | works |
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| 15:54:46 | def- | Araq: will you do all the gsoc organizational stuff or should i? also, someone should work over the gsoc ideas |
| 15:56:29 | Araq | def-: oh it would be awesome if you take the hat for that |
| 15:56:57 | Araq | I'm pretty sure zahary is still available as mentor for the GC project at least |
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| 15:57:28 | Araq | and you can sign me as mentor for anything you feel like |
| 15:57:35 | def- | applications start in 3 hours |
| 15:58:00 | dumdum | http://howistart.org/posts/nim/1 exactly what I needed to tie my nim learning loosends together :D |
| 15:58:43 | Araq | def-: will review your proposals tonight, I promise |
| 16:00:29 | plopknocker | yeah def- this is a great article that covers from installation to analysis in a project in a clear way. Thanks for this. |
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| 16:02:09 | dom96 | def-: there is no need to rush for the applications |
| 16:02:15 | dom96 | you have a week long window to make them IIRC |
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| 16:02:26 | def- | dom96: 11 days, i know |
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| 16:02:37 | perturbation | I like the brainfuck-generated ASCII art :) |
| 16:03:25 | dom96 | I love that, makes me wanna code some mandelbrot thing. |
| 16:03:56 | def- | writing a mandelbrot viewer was my alternative plan for the "How I Start" guide |
| 16:04:15 | def- | but couldn't pass up the chance to compile brainfuck into Nim |
| 16:06:10 | plopknocker | simple questions about nim: when adding non ref objects to a seq, can I just have a var myobj: MyObject and mysql.add(myobj) in the inner block scope? Or will the var get cleaned up and leave pointers to freed memory in the seq? |
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| 16:06:44 | def- | plopknocker: should work |
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| 16:07:28 | plopknocker | thanks def, strangely it has been hard to find example code to do this! |
| 16:08:17 | Araq | plopknocker: note that myobj is copied into the seq |
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| 16:08:59 | Araq | that's why the original 'myobj' var can disappear |
| 16:09:39 | Araq | whether that leaves your pointers in good shape depends on your semantics |
| 16:10:06 | Araq | but usually it's fine |
| 16:10:13 | plopknocker | ahh! Okay, Araq, the copying makes sense. |
| 16:19:58 | plopknocker | is there a more nim-ish way of populating a seq without copying, or should I just be using refs? |
| 16:20:33 | Araq | that depends on how big your object is, among other things |
| 16:20:41 | plopknocker | perhaps something like myseq.add(MyObject(<set up fields>)) |
| 16:21:22 | Araq | well that's usually not too bad. the compiler somewhat optimizes that iirc |
| 16:21:53 | plopknocker | is there any projects or units that do a lot of this I can look at? |
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| 16:22:30 | Araq | everything uses seq's add, plopknocker |
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| 16:56:14 | ekarlso | dom96: would it be a bad idea to move the option type into it's own module ? |
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| 17:19:30 | reactormonk | Araq, why do you want heuristics over the stackTraceAvailable() ? |
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| 17:28:10 | BlaXpirit | where is the option type |
| 17:30:07 | ekarlso | BlaXpirit: nimble.nim |
| 17:31:22 | BlaXpirit | I don't see |
| 17:33:35 | ekarlso | https://github.com/nim-lang/nimble/blob/master/src/nimble.nim#L16 |
| 17:34:19 | BlaXpirit | what is the point of that type |
| 17:34:43 | BlaXpirit | oh you mean to query about packages |
| 17:34:44 | ekarlso | keep options ? |
| 17:35:04 | BlaXpirit | because usually an "option type" is something that is either present or not |
| 17:35:15 | ekarlso | ah sorry ;P |
| 17:35:25 | BlaXpirit | recently discussed http://forum.nim-lang.org/t/323 |
| 17:35:31 | ekarlso | i'm trying to move my "new" bits out of nimble.nim as dom96 said... |
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| 17:35:44 | ekarlso | but Options keeps bugging me since it's nopt in the same file |
| 17:36:07 | ekarlso | and the proc i'm moving needs Options but needs to be imported into the nimble.nim file but then there's circular deps |
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| 17:44:37 | ekarlso | but, i'll let it be, other things to do atm :P |
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| 18:40:16 | shodan45 | what is the reasoning for having "import foo" work like python's "from foo import *"? |
| 18:40:34 | shodan45 | (which is discouraged in python) |
| 18:41:28 | Araq | we are not python. |
| 18:41:38 | shodan45 | Araq: sure :) |
| 18:42:14 | Araq | the reason is that it works better this way with Nim's method invocation syntax and operator handling |
| 18:42:28 | shodan45 | but I guess the reason it's discouraged in python is it makes it harder to read & understand the code |
| 18:42:30 | shodan45 | ahh, hmm |
| 18:42:50 | BlaXpirit | shodan45, I finally understand why this is the way to go |
| 18:42:58 | BlaXpirit | you don't need to specify module name |
| 18:43:02 | BlaXpirit | but you can! |
| 18:43:47 | BlaXpirit | the problem that from foo import nil is not useful is a different topic |
| 18:44:26 | BlaXpirit | what I meant to say is, you can write "import foo" and even use it like python's "import foo" |
| 18:45:44 | shodan45 | BlaXpirit: interesting, I didn't know that |
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| 18:46:49 | shodan45 | still... it appears that specifying module name all the time doesn't happen :/ |
| 18:47:12 | shodan45 | well, at least I understand the rational behind it now |
| 18:47:18 | shodan45 | thanks Araq |
| 18:49:17 | BlaXpirit | i suggested a few times that method invocation and operators should get special handling, then this wouldn't be a problem |
| 18:49:18 | Araq | BlaXpirit: can you stop that bullshit please? from htmlgen import nil works fine. |
| 18:49:49 | Araq | it depends on the module whether 'from import' is "flawed" according to your personal definition of "flawed" |
| 18:50:04 | BlaXpirit | oh, so it is useful for modules that only contain simple functions |
| 18:50:15 | Araq | which is really just a synonym for "works in a more consistent way than I would like it too" |
| 18:51:08 | shodan45 | do any of the editors do "go to declaration" yet? |
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| 18:51:31 | dumdum | ctags in nimlime |
| 18:51:51 | BlaXpirit | the only thing that is even close to being "advanced" is NimLime, so yeah, check it out |
| 18:52:08 | Araq | shodan45: onionhammer is working on the integration of nimsuggest |
| 18:52:42 | Araq | BlaXpirit: "simple functions"? that module contains macros. but whatever. |
| 18:53:41 | * | shodan45 gives Araq a beer |
| 18:53:46 | shodan45 | :) |
| 18:54:54 | shodan45 | Araq: I haven't been this excited to code in a long time (10+ years?!) |
| 18:55:27 | dumdum | shodan45: have a look at futures module for interesting macros :) |
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| 19:44:33 | Varriount|Mobile | Anyone here want to give me the gist of gradha's article, at gradha.github.io ? |
| 19:44:47 | Varriount|Mobile | I'm too nervous to read it. |
| 19:45:46 | reactormonk | Araq, btw, any reason nim isn't over in nim-lang group? |
| 19:47:16 | Araq | Varriount|Mobile: TL;DR "I'd rather complain than being productive and improving error messages. And I have fear that my code will be broken again. Even though the Nim compiler is written in itself." |
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| 19:49:20 | Varriount|Mobile | *sigh* |
| 19:50:30 | Varriount|Mobile | Araq: Well, I hope you'll take heart in the fact that I won't be leaving anytime soon. |
| 19:50:47 | BlaXpirit | it is not a powerful article |
| 19:51:01 | Araq | Varriount|Mobile: he, thanks. :-) |
| 19:51:03 | BlaXpirit | it hasn't convinced me of anything |
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| 19:51:13 | BlaXpirit | (even though I think it would be easy to) |
| 19:51:36 | BlaXpirit | big loss |
| 19:51:39 | Varriount|Mobile | Araq: Also, I'd like to think that I keep my complaining to a minimum. :P |
| 19:51:39 | BlaXpirit | (no sarcasm) |
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| 21:05:48 | ldlework | wow what an article, http://howistart.org/posts/nim/1 |
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| 21:08:58 | ldlework | I don't understand, is his technical critique not accurate, about thread local memory? |
| 21:09:05 | ldlework | What does an error message have to do with the limitation? |
| 21:11:28 | ldlework | "That's a bit too fast actually. The C compiler optimized away the entire for loop. Oops." |
| 21:11:29 | ldlework | haha |
| 21:12:44 | flaviu | Does nimsuggest compile at the moment? |
| 21:14:17 | flaviu | I get a type mismatch |
| 21:19:10 | dom96 | it doesn't from nimble for some odd reason |
| 21:19:51 | dom96 | Only 12 comments on that HN thread... wonder why it's so low. |
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| 21:26:21 | flaviu | dom96: https://github.com/nim-lang/nimsuggest/blob/master/nimsuggest.nim.cfg#L9 looks suspicious. |
| 21:30:30 | dom96 | flaviu: I bet that's it. |
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| 21:32:50 | flaviu | Now it's "Error: cannot open 'ast'", let me investigate further |
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| 21:44:34 | Araq | ldlework: ok, that is fair. |
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| 21:52:31 | flaviu | Shouldn't nimfix stay out of the compiler repo? |
| 21:52:41 | Araq | but then introducing 'shared ref' etc. would be too complex. and making every 'ref' 'shared' sucks for performance |
| 21:53:17 | flaviu | If nimsuggest is in nimble, then nimfix should be in nimble too. |
| 21:53:45 | Araq | once nimfix is usable, perhaps |
| 21:53:55 | Araq | but it was for the Nimrod -> Nim transition |
| 21:54:02 | Araq | and its future is unknown |
| 21:54:09 | Araq | it's not a nimfmt yet |
| 21:54:56 | Araq | and of course, if we take the route of a shared mem GC, people will complain we never get version 1.0 out |
| 21:56:50 | Araq | it's a fight you cannot win. People who complain, find valid reasons to complain. |
| 21:59:51 | flaviu | That's not really the right perspective on things. Your goal isn't to stop people from complaining. It's to make a language that meets a set of criteria. |
| 22:02:05 | Triplefox | If there's a thing I've learned about design from games, it's that you pick the foundation stuff and allow criticism to only shape the stuff around that foundation |
| 22:02:35 | Triplefox | Cause then it leads you somewhere instead of going in circles |
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| 22:06:28 | flaviu | Also, "shared mem GC" is the wrong level of abstraction IMO. The better way of doing things is to finally implement assignment operators. That way implementing "shared mem GC" becomes someone else's problem. |
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| 22:10:38 | Araq | flaviu: and overlaoding of '=' is indeed the last missing feature for 1.0 |
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| 22:27:54 | dom96 | Araq: what about improving the macro API? |
| 22:28:37 | Araq | dom96: what about it? do it. but don't bloat it. |
| 22:28:51 | dom96 | Araq: Mainly PNimrodNode -> NimNode? |
| 22:29:08 | Araq | that would be the obvious first step |
| 22:29:10 | dom96 | Also you said something about removing the nnk prefix. |
| 22:30:08 | Araq | yeah, that's something to consider but then what is the alternative? |
| 22:30:27 | dom96 | good question |
| 22:30:48 | Araq | NimNodeKind.call ? |
| 22:32:04 | fowlmouth | nnk.call plz |
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| 22:35:08 | dom96 | Also it would be nice to have proper accessors instead of doing everything via index. |
| 22:35:34 | Araq | that's how we do stuff in the compiler too :P |
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| 22:36:17 | Araq | a macro is only real when it contains something like n[0][1][5] |
| 22:38:11 | Araq | well go ahead. designing a better API is suprisingly hard IMHO. |
| 22:38:26 | flaviu | Araq: So now I have two things to complain about? |
| 22:38:26 | flaviu | Moar passes, AST pattern matching! |
| 22:38:30 | flaviu | :P |
| 22:39:37 | Araq | flaviu: complaining is fine. but you have to ensure you leave the community after we implemented quite a lot of features for you. |
| 22:39:46 | fowlmouth | dom96, the hope is that people add them as they need them, reality is a bit different |
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| 22:40:10 | Araq | uh oh. |
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| 22:42:03 | Araq | but ok, to be fair: Gradha did a lot of awesome stuff for Nim and it's sad he left. :-( |
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| 22:42:55 | Mat4 | hello |
| 22:43:37 | Araq | hi Mat4 |
| 22:43:47 | Mat4 | hi Araq |
| 22:44:59 | Mat4 | the nick list get larger as I see |
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| 22:57:08 | keyle | hello |
| 22:57:21 | keyle | neat article. |
| 23:02:31 | Araq | hi keyle |
| 23:02:47 | keyle | how's it cooking. |
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