<< 09-08-2013 >>
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08:19:53vegaiare there any stabilisation plans for 1.0?
08:20:03vegailist of todos, perhaps
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08:33:06Araq0There is my todo.txt
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10:22:10vegaiAraq: long? :)
10:22:27vegaianything there that a relative newbie could help with
10:51:14dom96good morning
10:56:58dom96vegai: A bigint module for the stdlib would be something you could do.
10:58:02dom96Contributing to Aporia might also be easier: https://github.com/nimrod-code/Aporia/blob/master/todo.markdown
11:06:53nihathraelvegai: you coudl continue the work on the aporia suggest feature, enable it to use the CAAS infrastructure
11:09:09vegaiwhat's the CAAS infrastructure?
11:10:18nihathraelhttp://build.nimrod-code.org/docs/idetools.html#compiler-as-a-service-caas
11:10:42nihathraelbasically you can run the compiler as a service and query it for information and make it perform certain actions
11:10:53nihathraele.g. ask for autocompletion, or tell it to compile code
11:11:08vegaiah, I see
11:14:58nihathraelI started implementing that a while back (https://github.com/nihathrael/Aporia/commit/df678985404ec33b7f6693ad8756bd150af903e7) but it still needs a lot of work
11:15:52nihathraelit'll probably be a little challenge (at least it was for me, also still new to nimrod) but you get to know a big part of the infrastructure
11:16:37vegaidoes nimrod-1.0 depend on aporia?
11:16:54vegaias a release, I mean
11:16:55nihathraelI don't think so
11:23:31nihathraelthere are a number of open tickets related to the caas stuff though
11:23:33nihathraelhttps://github.com/Araq/Nimrod/issues?labels=tools&page=1&state=open
11:23:59nihathraelI have no idea how far those need to be fixed for 1.0 though, you better ask Araq about that kind of stuff
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13:50:35EXetoCare these slice assignment semantics common? it seems to be the same in Python, but not in D IIRC (no splicing)
13:51:55EXetoCis anyone using operators like -| in user code? :p
14:39:01dom96i'm certainly not
14:41:10EXetoC:>
16:11:29dom96I wish I could do this: https://gist.github.com/dom96/89f8f0eefe99fe5670fd :(
16:34:46EXetoCso you once again want a sum type that can take anything? either that, or you're trying to do OO in a weird way or something
16:35:14EXetoCor if there's a fixed number of variations, then maybe the current implementation of sum types is good enough
16:35:34dom96I don't want, I need :P
16:35:59dom96But I figured out how to do some macro magic to work around it.
16:37:06EXetoCis it type safe?
16:38:37dom96yes
16:39:03dom96But it only works if you define your promise inside the async pro
16:39:05dom96*proc
16:40:07dom96which sucks but I have no other ideas.
16:43:19dom96EXetoC: what about that closure macro?
16:44:33EXetoClambda?
16:44:40dom96yeah
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16:47:03EXetoChaven't gotten anywhere
16:53:42dom96gah, strtabs doesn't work at compiletime
16:57:27EXetoCis the relevant VM stuff public yet?
16:58:01dom96dunno
17:00:15BitPuffindom96: hiring closed, the minecraft game didn't take off, or maybe they found someone else to do it
17:00:23BitPuffindoubt that though
17:00:33dom96awww
17:02:41dom96oh, weird that tables works
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18:13:13Mat2hi @ all
18:14:07dom96hi Mat2
18:14:13Mat2hi dom96
18:54:37EXetoCbeepeep
18:59:22Mat2hi EXetoC
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21:14:27Mat2ciao
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21:14:43dom96Not very much activity lately.
21:14:48dom96What's happening guys?
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21:19:56EXetoCcode and stuff
21:27:28dom96cool cool
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21:32:51BitPuffindom96: I've been in the process of recovering from the email disaster
21:33:12dom96lavabit?
21:33:16BitPuffinyeah
21:33:20dom96you used them?
21:33:24BitPuffinyeah
21:33:35dom96interesting
21:33:51BitPuffinhow so?
21:34:35EXetoCis anyone into turn-based games?
21:34:38dom96dunno, just didn't think it was that common
21:34:51dom96EXetoC: sure
21:35:30gradhaEXetoC: here, here
21:35:54gradhadoes playing chess count?
21:35:56BitPuffindom96: it was great, but the US sucks so
21:36:35BitPuffindom96: if you scrolled back in the log you'll probably see me mentioning that I can't access my email, that was when they were only "down for maintainenc" migrating to a new storage system
21:37:17dom96ahh, that sucks.
21:37:39dom96I read someone on HN mention that there is high demand for alternatives.
21:37:46gradhanew storage, hosted by the NSA
21:38:16gradhadom96: I don't understand, can't people encrypt their mail themselves like paranoid people have done for ages? what's the point of trusting a 3rd party?
21:38:17dom96And thought "hrm, could I write it quickly?" but then I realised I know shit all about cryptography heh
21:38:43dom96gradha: yeah, I dunno. I'm clueless about this stuff mostly.
21:39:14gradhathe concept is really easy: the moment you trust somebody else to do encryption you have none
21:39:46dom96There is a swedish team playing a game in the dota 2 international right now btw. They haven't lost a single game yet.
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21:47:11EXetoCI don't really want to play any real-time games for now, because I want to be able to just resume the coding whenever.
21:49:49EXetoCfreeciv anyone? I haven't played it yet, but I don't know of many such games. there's wesnoth, which I don't like
21:51:31gradhathe *civ ones haven't caught my interest, I like more masters of orion or xcom
21:51:44gradhathe recent xcom remake by 2k would be awesome if it were not bug ridden
21:53:36comexit would be awesome if the story weren't atrocious
21:54:34gradhathe story doesn't make sense at all, the end is especially stupid
21:54:40EXetoCthere's freeorion, which I've played maybe three times
21:55:27gradhawow, still on 0.4.x
21:56:13BitPuffingradha: that's not so much hte point
21:56:15EXetoClast release was a week ago though
21:56:27BitPuffingradha: snowden probably encrypted locally AND the storage was encrypted
21:56:28dom96I'd rather play 0 A.D. to be honest, although that's real time.
21:57:11BitPuffinEXetoC: we played freeorion briefly :)
21:57:38dom96or nethack, but that doesn't support multiplayer, well there probably is a version which does but the default doesn't
21:57:39EXetoCI thought it might've been you
21:58:19gradhaBitPuffin: sorry, don't follow, what has snowden to do with relying on a 3rd party for the security of your communication?
21:58:38BitPuffingradha: lavabit was most likely shut down because snowden used it
21:59:11BitPuffingradha: and as it turns out, lavabit was trustable, they'd rather shut down than to hand over emails
21:59:23dom96freeorion looks cool
22:00:23BitPuffingradha: realy pros use BitMessage, wanna try it out? :)
22:00:35EXetoCI'm awful at macro-management, so I don't know if I'd enjoy 0 A.D :>
22:00:54gradhaBitPuffin: don't know about it, don't pros use pgp locally and not require trusting a 3rd party?
22:01:08BitPuffingradha: BitMessage is exactly that
22:01:38BitPuffingradha: BitMessage is peer to peer and distributed, and encryption is built in
22:01:50gradhaBitPuffin: I'm reading the page now, but it doesn't make any sense
22:01:52EXetoCgradha: what aspects of the civ games don't you like?
22:01:53BitPuffingradha: your BM address acts as you public key
22:02:03BitPuffingradha: what doesn't make sense?
22:02:32gradhaBitPuffin: don't we already have encryption over plain mail? adding complexity to systems is error prone
22:02:40BitPuffingradha: this has less complexity
22:03:01gradhaEXetoC: dunno, I just never got the fun part of them
22:03:05BitPuffingradha: You don't sign up for anything, you just connect to the network and don't even have to care about public and private keys and all that jazz
22:03:12BitPuffinit's built in
22:03:23BitPuffinit's fundamentally better than email
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22:04:08gradhagradha: precisely, it's not email, so you can't use it to mail normal people, but you can send normal people crypto blobs
22:05:01gradhacertainly the p2p part is better to avoid centralization and signatures are good to fight spam
22:05:34BitPuffinWhen you send a message, you first do proof of work, if a message is too old other nodes won't bounce it, so the client would have to redo the proof of work which it does with longer waiting periods and falls off exponentially (if an address doesn't exist anymore this is useful), every message is sent to everyone, but since the message is encrypted to the address (the public key) only the node with the address can decrypt it
22:06:00BitPuffinThen they have a concept of streams to make it scale
22:06:08BitPuffinYou should really read the whitepaper
22:06:20BitPuffinThere isn't any gain to spam thanks to the proof of work
22:06:23BitPuffinit's not profitable
22:07:26gradhaI still prefer if the crypto is orthogonal to the transport layer
22:07:36BitPuffinwhat do you mean?
22:08:06gradhabitmessage is a new email like protocol, it integrates crypto to work, that's fine
22:08:16gradhabut the whole system is more complex
22:08:31BitPuffinit's actually brilliantly simple
22:08:35gradhainstead, we already have unencrypted mail, so, why not encrypt the message and paste it?
22:08:51BitPuffinbecause GPG is not straight forward to use
22:08:54gradhathat's what I mean by orthogonal, I prefer if the crypt doesn't depend on the transport layer and viceversa
22:09:07BitPuffinand it's better if everyone uses encryption
22:09:20BitPuffinbecause otherwise using encryption puts you on some watchlist
22:09:49gradhathe porn I download already puts me on some watchlist
22:09:57BitPuffinwell it's the crypto that makes the P2P possible
22:09:59BitPuffinlol
22:10:13BitPuffinare you a pedo?
22:10:47gradhaI download kpop, that's like worse than anal or something
22:10:58BitPuffinhaha
22:11:14BitPuffinA guy in my school was a fan of kpop
22:11:22gradhathey beat him up?
22:11:27EXetoCyou mean like when activating DNT? but yeah if more people do it then it's not as much of an issue
22:11:30*gradha wonders about the past tense in the verb
22:11:42BitPuffinnah we weren't that kind of school
22:11:51BitPuffinEXetoC: lol, no DNT is a failure
22:12:06BitPuffinit basically just says, please don't track me :'(
22:12:14BitPuffinand then they can just go, we'll do it anyway
22:12:19BitPuffinand you are like, okay
22:12:21gradhaI agree that bitmessage is superior, it will just take a generation to start using it (or something else)
22:12:44BitPuffingradha: sure thing, but that's why you should try to adopt it
22:13:04BitPuffinso that it gets somewhere
22:13:19BitPuffinwhen email came out people were like why would we use this, we have pen and paper lololol
22:13:29BitPuffinand now everybody uses email
22:13:43gradhanow everybody uses twitter
22:14:26BitPuffinnot as many as email uses
22:14:34BitPuffinbut what's thaaat got to do, got to do with it
22:15:18gradhawe should start using skype, now that it's monitored by Microsoft and NSA it's more secure
22:15:38BitPuffinwe should use jitsi instead of skype
22:15:46BitPuffinthat supports actual encryption
22:15:52BitPuffinand you can trust it
22:15:56BitPuffinbecause it's open source
22:16:03gradhaBitPuffin: are you perhaps from the future? you talk all about software I know nothing about
22:16:23BitPuffinskype says they encrypt I think, but that doesn't stop them from having a backdoor since it's closed source
22:16:24EXetoCas long as it's not slow like skype
22:16:44BitPuffinEXetoC: it works over XMPP
22:16:54BitPuffingradha: Yes I am sir
22:18:19BitPuffinEXetoC: so if you pick good XMPP service it should be fast
22:18:23gradhaBitPuffin: has south corea performed a zerg rush on the rest of the world in your future?
22:18:43EXetoCI meant in terms of performance
22:19:09BitPuffingradha: you mean with kpop gay men with crop tops?
22:19:19BitPuffinEXetoC: Only one way to find out
22:19:33gradhawait a sec, is there kpop with men? disgusting...
22:20:45BitPuffinEXetoC: wanna try it? :)
22:22:44EXetoCI don't really have much need for voip
22:23:01BitPuffinwell
22:23:11BitPuffinyou wanted to know if it was faster than skype didn't you?
22:27:41BitPuffinEXetoC: from what I can tell the client seems pretty fast, but I'm not doing any voice chat with it right now, I just tried logging in and having it idle
22:39:44EXetoCok
22:39:56EXetoCdom96: so maybe we can play freeorion, hedgewars or freeciv some time. or widelands :p
22:40:25dom96sure
22:40:42BitPuffinall of us can play
22:40:46BitPuffinand voip over jitsi :P
22:40:56dom96I just rebooted to windows to spectate a dota 2 match though :P
22:41:06gradhaand send to our team members instructions through bitmessage!
22:41:07dom96or we could use my teamspeak server :P
22:41:18BitPuffindoesn't dota 2 work on linux now?
22:41:27dom96yeah, but I don't feel like downloading it again
22:41:28gradhadom96: huh, doesn't steam have streaming of dota? I ran it some hours ago and it was featured
22:41:30BitPuffingradha: YAY!
22:41:50BitPuffindom96: does teamspeak run on linux and is open sauce?
22:42:12dom96gradha: yeah, but spectating manually allows me to navigate the map manually
22:42:19dom96BitPuffin: yes and no
22:42:31BitPuffindom96: then isn't mumble better?
22:43:00dom96Setting permissions in mumble is a bitch
22:43:06dom96*Setting up
22:45:04BitPuffinbut I wanna try jitsi :( awh
22:46:02dom96why don't we play dota 2 btw? :P
22:46:14BitPuffinright that's F2P and all
22:46:28dom96yeah
22:46:38gradhawhat's F2P?
22:46:44dom96free to play
22:48:00BitPuffinYou are currently 13891 in the Launch Queue
22:48:05BitPuffin_LOL_
22:48:18BitPuffinwell
22:48:28BitPuffinthat's a pretty good way to handle traffic honestly
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22:56:33gradhaI'm playing now with nimrod and it's crashing, can somebody suggest what could be wrong with https://gist.github.com/gradha/6197987 ?
22:56:48gradhathis is some code which opens a file, sets a position and reads some bytes into a buffer
22:57:08gradhamaybe the buffer can't be the string I'm creating with new_string?
22:58:35gradhathe lenght of bytes read matches the size of the string though, so I don't know what's wrong
23:00:50gradhaawww, found it, should not be using addr(s) but rather addr(s[0])
23:01:59OrionPKsetting up mumble/murmur on windows is a piece of piss
23:02:00OrionPK:)
23:03:20*gradha wonders if a helper proc readBuffer with var string could help which automatically calls addr on the first character
23:10:11gradhasince esports are that cool maybe we should set up webcams pointing at our keyboards and stream how we awesomely code in nimrod?
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23:29:50gradhagood night
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