<< 09-09-2015 >>
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07:40:37NimBotnim-lang/Nim devel d5c5fd4 Araq [+1 ±1 -0]: fixes #3230
07:40:37NimBotnim-lang/Nim devel ca9c196 Araq [+0 ±1 -0]: fixes typo
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10:56:56ArrrrGiven 'type Dad = object of RootObj; type Son = object of Dad', cant 'method x(d: Dad)' have an implicit {.base.} ?
10:57:05dom96http://forum.nim-lang.org/t/1624
10:58:19Arrrr'BDFL' => Bastard developer from '?' maybe?
11:00:59ArrrrAh, ok. Didnt know that one
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11:05:10nchambersbeneficial dictator for life
11:05:35nchambersnim and python are two good examples
11:05:45nchambersc++ is guided by a committee
11:06:13dom96https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benevolent_dictator_for_life
11:06:13keylec++ is guided by a horde of mad cows
11:06:33nchamberserr yeah benevolent
11:06:50keylebeneficial sounds better
11:07:02nchamberskey_: yes but its a standardized horde of mad cows
11:07:32keylecould be worse, could be ecmascript
11:07:37profan"trampling by committee"?
11:08:46*nchambers writes down potential magic cards
11:08:59nchambers*that down for
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11:09:17dom96hrm, I think I might prefer round neck
11:09:37keyleok
11:09:54keyleBDFL let's you decide
11:09:58keylelets*
11:10:03keyle;)
11:11:30dom96I'll see what is offered by the T-shirt company that I go for. Which brings me to another question, what is the best website to get custom T-shirts from?
11:13:18nchamberslike massive shipments?
11:13:45nchamberssomeone should write an apple ][ emulator in nim
11:14:24keyledom96, quality wise if you can get American Apparel it's best
11:14:34keyledepends how much you care
11:14:51keyleI'm sure some local companies will do a good job and ship faster than if you get it from overseas
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11:22:19dom96keyle: Does American Apparel do custom shirts?
11:22:56nchambershttp://www.logosoftwear.com/custom-made/t-shirt/americanapparel/category.php?gclid=Cj0KEQjwsb-vBRCLj7TvqpGx_MoBEiQALgFGnprYNzQ5SmL-jEezZoUBVNosXDuT46D6orJnNV4g0TQaAt-V8P8HAQ
11:23:34dom96oh I see.
11:24:25keyledom96, shops that care about print quality will often offer an option for "printed on American Apparel x.y.z sheep clothing"
11:24:59dom96I'll keep a lookout for that
11:25:01keyleit basically means your shirt will look decent, won't be sized for a monster, thick like a carpet
11:25:23keyleand you can wash it more than 10 times
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11:25:36keyleI printed stuff on AA back in 2005 and I still wear it today.
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11:29:26nchambersyou've washed it more than ten times though right?
11:29:49Arrrrlol
11:30:52keyleoh yeah well above that :)
11:47:39dom96Hrm, seems I underestimated how much custom t-shirts actually cost.
11:49:55keyleyeah it's not cheap feat
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12:16:59federico3quertee?
12:19:25federico3dom96: https://www.qwertee.com/
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12:22:03dom96federico3: that looks more like a place to sell T-shirts
12:22:10dom96but I will look into it
12:23:07federico3dom96: people submit a design and vote it. If it's accepted it will be printed and sold for few days
12:24:13dom96yeah, would be good to use that.
12:24:24dom96I'm starting to think that giving out free t-shirts at OSCON won't work
12:26:28nchambersok just give me the free one then
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12:28:17federico3dom96: stickers? Pins?
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12:40:18keylestickers could be a good alternative
12:40:31keylepeople love sticking nerdy stuff on their laptops
12:40:43flyxI would drop by if OSCON tickets would be affordable
12:42:49keyleerrr double clicking (by mistake) the Submit button on forums writes it twice. That's a bit... poor.
12:43:49keylesurely a tiny bit of javascript could prevent that.
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12:51:58Arrrr"pull request are welcome"
12:53:54keylewhere is it at
12:54:34dom96keyle: https://github.com/nim-lang/nimforum
12:54:46keylewill add it to my todo list
12:54:54dom96Yeah, i'll probably get stickers instead.
12:55:01dom96Should be considerably cheaper.
12:55:43dom96flyx: yeah, they are very expensive sadly. Araq might be able to get you a discount code though.
12:56:35flyxdom96: unless this discount is somewhere around 90%, it wouldn't really make a difference.
12:56:53flyxis Araq planning to attend other conferences?
12:57:15dom96flyx: He got me a ticket for free so it might even be 100% :)
12:59:49OnOAraq: It's great to learn Nim has now gangbang support :) you can now expect new investors and capital coming
13:00:26OnOas for OSCON I sent them Q whether my PhD candidate card gets me STUDENT discount, I am too old for student though, but always worth to try
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13:11:41federico3why oscon by the way?
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13:14:35wuehlmausas i understand it Araq is working on an oreilly book about nim so they invite him to spread the word.
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15:14:06AraqOnO: I believe it's called "having fun at work" :P
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15:32:58NimBotnim-lang/Nim devel b3cecdd Yuriy Glukhov [+0 ±2 -0]: Fixed seq.insert and seq.delete for js.
15:32:58NimBotnim-lang/Nim devel 0c7d52e Andreas Rumpf [+0 ±2 -0]: Merge pull request #3274 from yglukhov/seq-insert-js-fix... 2 more lines
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16:07:19Jehan_Araq: There's currently a problem with Nim not working with older versions of gcc because of a dual definition of TNimType (one in nimbase.h, one generated).
16:07:49Jehan_That's with gcc 4.4.6, but not sure how far it goes back.
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16:15:39Jehan_For what it's worth, removing TNimType from nimbase.h seems to ... not break anything.
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17:01:12AraqJehan_: hrm, but I had to add it to nimbase.h for the C++ codegen
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17:01:52Jehan_Araq: I see. I'll have a look at what can be done.
17:02:43Araqthe major problem is that hti.nim is both a module and included in system.nim
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17:03:26Araqmaybe we should just live exporting it from system.nim
17:03:34Araq*live with
17:10:07Jehan_Hmm, or suppress the code generation for the typedef.
17:11:11Araqbut nimbase.h only has an incomplete definition anyway
17:11:26Araqwhat's gcc's error message?
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17:51:58Jehan_Araq: as follows:
17:52:00Jehan_compiler/nimcache/compiler_nim.c:16: error: redefinition of typedef ‘TNimType’
17:52:42Jehan_ /scratch/rb/nim/lib/nimbase.h:423: note: previous declaration of ‘TNimType’ was here
17:53:06Araqit is my understanding that multiple incomplete struct definitions as well as multiple function prototypes are allowed by the C standard
17:54:01Araqotherwise the #include mechanism work even worse in practice
17:54:02Jehan_Araq: The problem is the typedef, I believe.
17:54:30Jehan_Incomplete structs are needed just so that you can have recursive type definitions.
17:54:51Araqno, it's also a form of information hiding
17:55:38Jehan_Function prototypes are a different story; you can have any number of them as long as they match.
17:56:02Araqso struct Foo; struct Foo; struct Foo { int a; } is allowed?
17:56:11Araqbut not with the typedef?
17:56:46Jehan_Araq: That's something that I'm not entirely certain about.
17:57:15Jehan_I know that more recent gcc and clang versions allow multiple identical typedefs.
17:57:30Jehan_And actually, gcc did allow it in certain cases beforehand already.
17:57:46Jehan_Whether that's actually support by one of the C standards, I'd have to look up.
17:58:52Jehan_Hmm, interesting, compiling the compiler with "nim cpp" breaks with and without that part for unrelated reasons.
17:59:30Jehan_Namely: error: cannot convert ‘NU8*’ to ‘NU8 (*)[20]’
18:03:02Jehan_Seems to be a problem with returning an array (or maybe a distinct array type).
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18:08:47Jehan_Ah, it turns out that this is already a bug.
18:09:02Jehan_Eh, reported issue, I mean.
18:09:10Jehan_But now it prevents the compiler from compiling itself.
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18:21:23Araqwell it used to work and I even wanted to add a test that it continues to work
18:21:56enamexHas anyone here took a good look at ooc ? I haven't played any significant time with either it or Nim and was wondering if anyone could comment on the overlap. Especially that ooc is so unknown that it's hard to find anything written about, let alone (good) comparisons.
18:24:04Araqenamex: I read its manual back in the days
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18:25:39drewsremIs there a reason why there's no GoTo in Nim?
18:27:19ArrrrI can't think of one, everybody loves goto
18:27:37Araqsyntactically the thing that stands out is that it uses spaces instead of dots iirc, could cause problems for IDE support
18:28:13Araqdrewsrem: control flow analysis is more complex when you have goto
18:28:42Araqgoto doesn't work well with 'try'
18:28:55Araqgoto doesn't work well with indentation based syntax
18:30:15Araqblock foo: break foo has been designed to cover 90% of the cases people use goto for.
18:30:58Araqthe only thing 'goto' is useful for is state machines which we support via the undocumented .goto pragma ...
18:30:59drewsremAraq, I thought of C interop, seems e.g. libmill uses goto macros
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18:31:37drewsremBut I haven't yet looked into how it actually uses them, just wondered about goto in general
18:31:37enamexAraq: Any notes that stuck with you?
18:32:01Araqenamex: "boring" ;-)
18:32:42Araqno macro system, crippled operator overloading, no clear rules of what is allowed wrt memory management (it just uses boehm's GC)
18:33:45Araqplus its primary author couldn't remember if structs (or whatever they call them) are value or reference-based
18:34:48Araqwhich wasn't a problem because hey, "Stroustrup doesn't remember everything about C++ either"
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18:38:48enamexStroustrup certainly remembers enough, I'd say.
18:39:20enamexHonestly, it's just that 'ooc'/'Nim'/'BitC' stuck out when 'better C' was mentioned. But not nearly with the same frequency
18:39:36Araqin particular he remembers how his very own language actually works ;-)
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18:49:07Araqenamex: afaik BitC is dead
18:50:23enamexIt is, yeah. But now there's Rust (to a less extent) so...
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19:42:00dom96enamex: isn't ooc mostly dead too?
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20:12:13Varriount|BusyAraq: For the NSIS installer, should I add some stuff to help configure the config file (for users of clang, vcc, etc.)?
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20:13:01dom96we're getting an NSIS installer?
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20:14:00Araqdom96: we already have an NSIS based installer. since 0.11.0 at least.
20:14:15dom96oh cool
20:14:40AraqVarriount|Busy: before you do that, please figure out our PATH problems. it only sets the user's path, not the global one, but the user's might not exist
20:14:45dom96Nullsoft ftw
20:14:59Varriount|BusyAraq: Ugh.
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20:15:18AraqNullsoft's upcoming NSIS product uses NimScript instead of their own shitty scripting language
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20:15:29Varriount|BusyAraq: ?!
20:16:22Mat4hello, I'm searching for the keyword word for abandon compilation (something like abort), probably exist a macro for quit with an error message or such
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20:16:44Varriount|BusyMat4: The {.error.} pragma, I think.
20:16:50AraqMat4: setControlCHook
20:17:01Mat4thanks
20:17:35Varriount|BusyAraq: Are you serious about Nullsoft switching to Nimscript?
20:18:25Araqno, but rumors that they do it cannot hurt
20:20:51AraqVarriount|Busy: actually, we could use Nimscript to build our own installer ...
20:21:13AraqI know you had the idea before and I was against it
20:21:42Varriount|BusyAraq: Well, to be fair, the installer would be more complex and bigger.
20:22:27Varriount|BusyThough, we could always use UPX.
20:22:59Araqwell the current installer is really nice though, with its optional downloads
20:25:49dom96I don't think Nullsoft exists anymore
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20:27:07Varriount|Busydom96: WinAmp
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20:27:21dom96what about it?
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20:28:22Varriount|Busydom96: NullSoft develops WinAmp
20:28:33dom96AOL owns it now
20:29:54redwynHi. For a large seq, is: " myseq[myseq.high] " the fastest and idiomatic way to get the last element?
20:30:20Varriount|Busyredwyn: Yes.
20:32:34Mat4(site node) hmm, probably AOL stands for America Off Line, in these case both doesn't seem to exit any more
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20:42:39Varriount|BusyAlthough, I do wonder what techniques NSIS uses to keep itself small. I know that the scripts are interpreted, and can thus be compressed, but what else?
20:47:13Varriount|BusyAraq: Regarding the PATH variable, I think I've answered this before. The installer would need to run as administrator to modify it.
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20:49:32Araqredwyn: myseq[^1] is just as fast and will be more idiomatic soon ;-)
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20:50:00Varriount|BusyAraq: That works? I thought the ^ only applied to slices.
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20:50:18Araqwhen we introduced ^ we did it properly
20:52:02AraqVarriount|Busy: well it should create a user-local Path if one doesn't exist already
20:52:05reactormonkHow is it implemented? compiler magic? Or just a data type?
20:52:44Araqcompiler magic to keep things simple for user-defined datatypes, overload [] and len and it just works
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20:53:58redwynAraq: and what does it mean...how would one read it?
20:54:47Varriount|Busyredwyn: s[^1] == s[len(s)-1]
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21:12:04Mat4sorry, I forgot how to define an union structure. What is the syntax for it ?
21:14:02Araqobject {.union.}
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21:14:17Varriount|BusyMat4: Or do you mean a variant structure?
21:15:07Mat4yes (and no), I mean the equivalent for a C union
21:15:35Mat4in Freepascal that is a variant record
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21:20:49Mat4oh, whatever I mask the slot fields out and write a routine for barrel shifting
21:22:06AraqVarriount|Busy: to answer your question: It likely uses the WInAPI directly for the UI, attaches the scripts and data to an existing .exe that runs the scripts and then it uses something like UPX
21:29:10Mat4how about adding an union type ?
21:33:17AraqMat4: told you, you can use object {.union.}
21:37:37Mat4yes, these pragma, thanks
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22:13:04ekarlsodom96: you live in dublin or ?
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