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| 03:55:22 | ibk | how to configure nimble to produce binary name that contain `-` |
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| 06:56:54 | def- | ibk: nim -o:file-with-dashes c x.nim |
| 06:57:52 | def- | ibk: oh, nimble. maybe just unsupported so far |
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| 07:12:54 | FromGitter | <ephja> well, you do have cfg files |
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| 07:50:04 | FromGitter | <gogolxdong> Does Nim implement DES/AES encryption algorithm ? |
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| 07:52:25 | flyx | gogolxdong: hopefully not. crypto is nothing everybody should write an own implementation for. |
| 07:53:06 | flyx | gogolxdong: just use OpenSSL/LibreSSL/GnuTLS/whatever you want |
| 07:53:40 | tankfeeder | I've implement a lot on PicoLisp |
| 07:53:41 | tankfeeder | https://bitbucket.org/mihailp/tankfeeder/src/aea7dd71f485f5b6631f1d00afa04ce9f0b35948/crypto/?at=default |
| 07:53:46 | tankfeeder | for fun. |
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| 08:10:54 | cheatfate | gogolxdong: of course nim has |
| 08:11:37 | cheatfate | https://github.com/jangko/nimAES |
| 08:11:45 | flyx | oh, did not know that |
| 08:14:18 | cheatfate | gogolxdong, and if you need i have twofish and blowfish, but they not published so just ask me |
| 08:17:44 | cheatfate | gogolxdong: and also if you still need DES/3DES https://github.com/LucaWolf/des.nim |
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| 08:29:31 | FromGitter | <gogolxdong> Great help,thank you. Shouldn't these be a part of standard lib? |
| 08:30:40 | FromGitter | <ephja> at the very least after a lof of testing then, imo |
| 08:31:09 | FromGitter | <ephja> des.nim has a few tests, so that's a step in the right direction |
| 08:32:15 | cheatfate | gogolxdong: i dont think crypto library must be part of stdlib |
| 08:33:26 | flyx | the problem with crypto is that it should be audited before being used for anything in production |
| 08:33:33 | FromGitter | <ephja> perhaps if there's a formal process involved |
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| 09:02:21 | cheatfate | that's annoying when people say, dont make crypto yourself - dangerous, dont reinvent the wheel - waste of time. But all great inventions made by mankind was experiments with something dangerous, or `reinventing wheel` |
| 09:04:31 | tankfeeder | all my crypto code passes NESSIE test vectors, i trust in general. |
| 09:04:32 | flyx | the difference is that crypto is very thorough specification, one of the few where you actually exactly know what to implement. so there's not really room for inventing something now |
| 09:04:33 | flyx | *new |
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| 09:06:59 | cheatfate | crypto invented by people and new `crypto primitives` appears all the time, same with `protocols`. |
| 09:07:17 | cheatfate | so there is enough room for everybody to make something new |
| 09:07:39 | flyx | yeah sure. finding a new crypto mechanism is something new. implementing AES is not. |
| 09:08:23 | cheatfate | so what the difference with AES implemented in pure Nim and implemented by openssl? |
| 09:09:05 | FromGitter | <ephja> the amount of developers and reviewers |
| 09:09:58 | flyx | OpenSSL has gone through multiple security audits |
| 09:10:16 | cheatfate | flyx, you are wrong openssl is still as standard |
| 09:10:35 | flyx | I didn't say it isn't |
| 09:10:56 | cheatfate | flyx, and what crypto library you prefer? |
| 09:11:28 | flyx | you are talking as if I said something bad about OpenSSL |
| 09:11:31 | flyx | I didn't |
| 09:12:12 | cheatfate | ok |
| 09:12:21 | flyx | I have not needed crypto functionality in my code, so I did not yet evaluate the available libs |
| 09:13:30 | FromGitter | <ephja> perhaps you misunderstood the term "audit", which is not synonymous with "exploit" ;) |
| 09:15:27 | cheatfate | ephja i'm not misunderstood... but why you trust auditors? |
| 09:15:32 | cheatfate | do you know this people? |
| 09:16:14 | cheatfate | may be they all work for NSA or any other agency of any other country |
| 09:16:21 | cheatfate | have you audited them in such way? |
| 09:16:54 | cheatfate | so its impossible to audit code in `crypto way` |
| 09:17:16 | FromGitter | <ephja> it's not impossible, but unlikely considering the fact that the code is available to everyone |
| 09:18:02 | flyx | an audit may also oversee security holes. nobody thinks a successful audit will make the software flawless |
| 09:18:18 | flyx | it just lowers the propability of errors |
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| 09:19:14 | cheatfate | so if pure nim aes implementation successfully passes test vectors, and source is published, can i use it? |
| 09:19:16 | flyx | which is exactly „the crypto way“, because crypto usually depends on improbability of the equivalence of keys and such |
| 09:19:48 | FromGitter | <ephja> and let's hope that less unsafe languages will gain more traction over time |
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| 09:21:34 | flyx | cheatfate: you can use whatever you want. the point is, if you want to minimize the risk of security exploits, it's better to use OpenSSL. for now. |
| 09:21:50 | cheatfate | flyx, and you are wrong one more time |
| 09:22:13 | cheatfate | that's why we have libressl |
| 09:22:18 | cheatfate | and any other ssls |
| 09:23:14 | cheatfate | there is no strong security exploits against wide used `crypto primitives`. so implementing `crypto primitive` is safe enough |
| 09:23:44 | cheatfate | flyx, i dont trust openssl because of random generator |
| 09:23:51 | flyx | the exploits I am talking about are not those in the specification, but those in the implementation |
| 09:24:03 | flyx | if the specification is flawed, any implementation is exploitable |
| 09:24:16 | FromGitter | <ephja> it helps to use a language with better safety constructs, but it's not a panacea |
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| 09:24:35 | cheatfate | ephja but nim has better safety than c have |
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| 09:25:06 | FromGitter | <ephja> I forgot to add "... than C has" |
| 09:25:26 | flyx | if a Nim crypto lib becomes widely used, it may with time have stronger security assurances than OpenSSL |
| 09:25:44 | flyx | and yeah, of course you can go the way and start such a lib |
| 09:26:23 | cheatfate | flyx, but you blame people here in #nim to doing such lib |
| 09:26:36 | flyx | I did not blame anyone |
| 09:27:49 | cheatfate | but you warn anybody to use broken ssl libs |
| 09:28:04 | cheatfate | `broken` |
| 09:28:39 | flyx | yeah, and I will continue to do so. that does not mean I have anything against people writing such a lib |
| 09:30:00 | flyx | my point is just that using crypto usually means critical privacy stuff is involved, in which case I think anyone should try and go for the best security assurance available rather than testing out new libs |
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| 09:35:49 | lg_ | flyx: software with over then 300K lines of code can't be considered "secure". I'd rather use my son's C# version of rijndael implementation, then bet on openssl stuff |
| 09:37:43 | cheatfate | flyx, also its not a good idea to put all eggs in one basket, because if basket will be `hacked`... all eggs becomes broken... |
| 09:38:36 | flyx | lg_: if it is impossible that 300k lines of code are considered secure, I really wonder how planes keep flying. |
| 09:38:58 | cheatfate | flyx, secure != keep flying... |
| 09:38:59 | FromGitter | <ephja> aliens |
| 09:39:29 | cheatfate | flyx, you so opposite to custom crypto so i'm thinking you are NSA agent :) |
| 09:39:36 | lg_ | flyx: that is how ;) https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/1a/c8/62/1ac862487c8f729a6f89b90d1fd01d30.jpg |
| 09:40:16 | flyx | cheatfate: well on that ground I don't think it makes any sense to continue this discussion. |
| 09:40:28 | flyx | lg_: good one |
| 09:40:43 | FromGitter | <ephja> that's a questionable conclusion imo ;) |
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| 09:46:45 | FromGitter | <ephja> "all libraries are secure. man-hours are irrelevant" regards, your average non-NSA agent |
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| 09:48:21 | cheatfate | even using of `secure` library in your application don't guarantee security... `whatsapp` - nice example |
| 09:50:00 | flyx | nothing „guarantees“ anything |
| 09:50:31 | FromGitter | <ephja> statistical probability |
| 09:54:55 | FromGitter | <ephja> in the same way that password cracking is unlikely, but never impossible |
| 09:55:44 | cheatfate | ephja: yeah every crypto can be broken via bruteforce... |
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| 12:20:00 | FromGitter | <MatejLach> Hello, just compiled aporia and have a bit of an issue; it doesn't remember any preferences upon next launch; that is, the preferences are applied, but only until I close the application, what could be the problem? |
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| 13:51:09 | yglukhov | Araq: hi. there's a slight issue with dyncalls.nim, specifically that its using stderr in case of errors and there's no way to override this. this is especially bad on android where stderr gets nowhere. i would suggest using errorMessageWriter, but its a bit tricky because its interface is not appropriate for how dyncalls logs its errors. |
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| 13:53:02 | yglukhov | Araq: so my current idea is to change errorMessageWriter interface in a breaking way from proc(s: string) to proc(openarray[cstring]) |
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| 14:03:12 | FromGitter | <ephja> @MatejLach I dunno, but there are good plugins for more featureful editors |
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| 18:58:43 | planhths | how are macros evaluted when they are passed as pragmas? |
| 19:00:04 | yglukhov | proc myProc() {.myMacro.} = echo "hi" is rewritten to: myMacro(proc myProc() = echo "hi") |
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| 19:05:35 | planhths | let me try it |
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| 19:10:41 | yglukhov | dom96: ping |
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| 19:24:09 | planhths | does not compile, I asked because of this: |
| 19:24:10 | planhths | import macros |
| 19:24:12 | planhths | macro newMacro*(a, b: untyped): untyped = |
| 19:24:13 | planhths | result = b |
| 19:24:15 | planhths | echo "First" |
| 19:24:16 | planhths | macro secondMacro(p: untyped): untyped = |
| 19:24:18 | planhths | result = p |
| 19:24:19 | planhths | echo "Second" |
| 19:24:21 | planhths | newMacro 1: |
| 19:24:22 | planhths | proc newStr(): string {.secondMacro.} = echo "hello" |
| 19:24:24 | planhths | echo newStr() |
| 19:24:25 | planhths | sorry |
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| 19:27:47 | dom96 | yglukhov: sup |
| 19:29:13 | yglukhov | dom96: hey, so i'm abserving a strange issue with nimble. i can see it only in my docker container. |
| 19:30:22 | dom96 | yglukhov: tell me more :) |
| 19:30:52 | yglukhov | dom96: the container has nim and nimble installed. if i try to install anything (eg nake), i'm observing this: https://gist.github.com/yglukhov/b5ed1dc51ba69e3791f024ba24340a11 |
| 19:31:16 | planhths | my bad I misunderstood it |
| 19:32:31 | yglukhov | planhths: sorry, missed your comments. stupid laptop goes offline when monitor sleeps. |
| 19:32:51 | planhths | its ok yglukhov |
| 19:33:16 | yglukhov | planhths: so is your question still open or have you figured it out? |
| 19:34:20 | planhths | I am a bit confused about in which order are macros evaluted |
| 19:34:23 | yglukhov | dom96: oh btw. could you pls take a look at my pr to nim? |
| 19:35:16 | yglukhov | dom96: https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/pull/5011 |
| 19:35:18 | dom96 | yglukhov: hrm, I suppose I need to tag a new release |
| 19:35:27 | dom96 | https://github.com/nim-lang/nimble/commit/d854bc64c85645f38e0133663c06c996df96f7dc |
| 19:35:36 | dom96 | That problem should be fixed through that |
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| 19:36:06 | yglukhov | dom96: no. |
| 19:36:23 | yglukhov | dom96: i have latest nimble. and have your patch in the nimble file. |
| 19:37:13 | yglukhov | dom96: but i think i'm starting to understand the problem... dirExists is relative to pwd. and i've got src dir in pwd. |
| 19:38:05 | dom96 | oh |
| 19:38:10 | dom96 | that makes sense :\ |
| 19:38:51 | dom96 | I'm not sure what I should do, is this dirExist's fault? |
| 19:38:58 | dom96 | *dirExists' |
| 19:39:53 | dom96 | I merged your PR |
| 19:40:04 | yglukhov | dom96: i don't think so. dirExists is fine i guess. but you're misusing it. maybe slurp? its relative to _this_ file. |
| 19:40:32 | yglukhov | thats surely a hack though. but might work =) |
| 19:40:38 | dom96 | that sucks |
| 19:41:13 | yglukhov | also staticExec is relative, afair? |
| 19:41:14 | dom96 | One of the reasons for nimscript support in Nimble is to remove the need for specifying versions multiple times |
| 19:41:47 | dom96 | but wait |
| 19:41:53 | dom96 | hrm |
| 19:42:05 | dom96 | I just don't see why it would be relative to PWD> |
| 19:42:12 | yglukhov | dom96: by slurp, i mean you can replace your dirExists condition with smth like if slurp("src/nimblepkg/common.nim") != nil: ... |
| 19:42:30 | yglukhov | * s/if/when/ |
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| 19:44:00 | yglukhov | planhths: ok, as far as i understood your code (which has completely messed up indentaion). you're defining a proc (with applied secondMacro) inside an ast passed to newMacro. thats correct? |
| 19:45:07 | yglukhov | dom96: well, all generic things that work with fs usually accept either absolute or relative-to-cur-dir paths. right? =) |
| 19:45:32 | yglukhov | dom96: thanks for merge |
| 19:46:12 | planhths | yglukhov: yep |
| 19:46:34 | dom96 | yglukhov: yes, but if you think about it a `dirExists` inside a .nimble file should be relative to that .nimble file I think |
| 19:48:05 | dom96 | yglukhov: In any case, please create an issue somewhere. Maybe as a workaround you can downgrade Nimble? |
| 19:48:23 | yglukhov | planhths: the order is defined by typed/untyped args of the most external macro. since your newMacro takes untyped it means, that no semantic check should be done to ast that you're passing as untyped. |
| 19:48:35 | yglukhov | does that make sense? |
| 19:48:40 | planhths | yep |
| 19:48:58 | planhths | thank you yglukhov |
| 19:49:04 | yglukhov | anytime =) |
| 19:52:55 | yglukhov | dom96: why would dirExists behave differently in nimble file? nimble file is just a nimscript. |
| 19:54:01 | yglukhov | dom96: as i'm seeing it, current dirExists behavior is the only one possibly correct. |
| 19:55:50 | dom96 | sorry, i gotta go, bbl |
| 19:55:57 | yglukhov | see you |
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