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| 09:27:51 | FromDiscord | <shalokshalom> In reply to @asviest "Does anyone have experience": GTK is normally quite poor in relationship to cross platform compatibilities, and looks ugly almost everywhere - except Gnome. ↵So yes, it looking bad and out of place in a Gnome environment, hints on an issue with the app itself. |
| 09:28:32 | FromDiscord | <shalokshalom> Did you see, that libdecor is 5 years out of date? |
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| 09:31:26 | FromDiscord | <asviest> In reply to @shalokshalom "Did you see, that": No, it only about GitHub repo, actual repo on gitlab: https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/libdecor/libdecor/ |
| 09:34:08 | FromDiscord | <asviest> In reply to @shalokshalom "GTK is normally quite": The problem lies elsewhere: the GTK plugin doesn't use libadwaita and looks non-native; plus, it's incredibly slow (the app freezes for several seconds when hovering over libdecor elements). Besides, this mainly concerns GNOME, as everything except Mutter supports server-side decorations. |
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| 11:16:05 | FromDiscord | <asviest> In reply to @asviest "The problem lies elsewhere:": It works better with cairo plugin (it looks much more not native) |
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| 17:25:04 | FromDiscord | <indelusionalizationary> Is nim as fast as rust, c, cpp, as low level as them? |
| 17:31:58 | FromDiscord | <Buckwheat> Rust being on that list is kinda wild but Nim can sometimes hit the C/C++ speeds, I would argue Rust and C++ aren't really low-level, and I'd say Nim would be more high-level too semantically, but its binaries flatten very clean↵(@indelusionalizationary) |
| 17:32:07 | FromDiscord | <Buckwheat> I wouldn't be writing an OS or kernel in Nim though |
| 17:33:55 | FromDiscord | <asviest> In reply to @indelusionalizationary "Is nim as fast": I don't quite understand the point of the question; Nim is quite high-level, but the others are as well. You can achieve the speed of these programming languages, especially by using language features like {.cursor.} and others. |
| 17:38:00 | FromDiscord | <Buckwheat> worth mentioning if you're really trying to write super close to hardware, I think a lang like Nim (hell even Rust and C++) are a footgun because you need to have as clear of detail as possible, abstraction is bad there. |
| 17:38:15 | FromDiscord | <Buckwheat> and Nim is, really really abstracted |
| 17:44:59 | FromDiscord | <asviest> In reply to @asviest "I don't quite understand": https://nim-lang.org/docs/mm.html↵And for speed, it's better to use --mm:arc. For multithreading, there is --atomicArc, but it comes with some overhead (though it's minor). It simplifies multi-threading, but everything works great without it as well (just use locks, isolated, etc.).↵Check out: https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/pull/21798 |
| 17:56:38 | FromDiscord | <indelusionalizationary> In reply to @Buckwheat "I wouldn't be writing": why? |
| 17:58:23 | FromDiscord | <indelusionalizationary> I thought nim is systems programming language |
| 17:59:58 | FromDiscord | <tauruuuuuus> In reply to @Buckwheat "worth mentioning if you're": I routinely write nim for 8 bit microcontrollers, you just do not use ref types and you're mostly good |
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| 19:15:00 | FromDiscord | <nervecenter> In reply to @indelusionalizationary "I thought nim is": It is, with all the trapdoors explicitly enabled. By default, Nim uses value semantics and scoped lifetimes. It is up to you to opt into GC managed references, or if you don't want that, then pointers, manual allocation and unsafe casting. When you use those latter tools, they map directly onto C, which you can see in the generated C code and final binary. |
| 19:17:38 | Amun-Ra | improperly written nim code is as fast as C one |
| 19:26:23 | FromDiscord | <indelusionalizationary> In reply to @Amun-Ra "improperly written nim code": I'm still a believer in this quote that I remember from guys on X, goes like "the memory leak and all things that rust solves for c, aren't C language problem but are programmer's skill issue" (of course in my own words I stated here) |
| 19:30:34 | FromDiscord | <indelusionalizationary> I just want to get into systems programming but C feels too much (you might have seen those visually hurting function signatures `void f(char[] a, ()->[{]}[])` ) they horrifies the shit out of me, so I thought let's pick rust. ↵and I'm honestly investing some spare time in rust daily, but I just wanted to explore if I have any better options than rust cause I personally hate cpp for no reason at all. |
| 19:33:12 | FromDiscord | <koaledu> I don't think the dislike for C++ is unjustified, it's an absolutely huge language with lots of inconsistencies and too many way of doing a thing. |
| 19:34:58 | FromDiscord | <nervecenter> In reply to @indelusionalizationary "I just want to": C++ is very hateable, it's a shambling Frankenstein's monster of a language. I think the idea of cleaning up the raw systems-level semantics of C is a good idea, I'm just not sure if Zig is it... |
| 20:02:47 | FromDiscord | <nnsee> In reply to @indelusionalizationary "Is nim as fast": what metric do you measure "low level" by? |
| 20:04:13 | FromDiscord | <nnsee> and nim is, by definition, equally as fast as c and c++, as nim is compiled into c and c++... |
| 20:04:24 | FromDiscord | <nnsee> and equally as low level |
| 20:04:44 | Amun-Ra | that depends, nim does range checks by default, C does segfaults by default ;) |
| 20:05:33 | Amun-Ra | and that's why is X faster than Y w/o any context just an academic discussion |
| 20:08:26 | FromDiscord | <nnsee> yes, but you can also either turn those off for nim OR do range checks in c. my point is more that "is language A faster than language B" is usually a pointless question that's almost impossible to answer. even comparing interpreted vs compiled languages is, while it makes a bit more sense, not always straightforward, as an interpreter with, let's say, JIT may often outperform equivalent code compiled with gcc |
| 20:09:59 | Amun-Ra | it's almost always a pointless q |
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| 23:25:35 | FromDiscord | <kapendev> Can you avoid range checks manually instead of a flag? |
| 23:26:13 | FromDiscord | <kapendev> I get why they are useful, but sometimes it's not worth doing. |