<< 10-11-2015 >>
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00:19:45def-julian37: GC doesn't work well with emscripten, at least last time i checked
00:20:18def-the GC tests of the compiler failed at least
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00:35:17julian37def-: do you mean https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/pull/3314#issuecomment-142563072 ?
00:35:44julian37sorry I mean https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/pull/3314#issuecomment-140993562
00:35:54julian37> Emscripten passess values and recieve result of function call not by using stack but with javascript function argumetns and results.
00:36:27julian37that I've worked around by disabling GC
00:36:34def-oh, didn't see that PR yet, that's much more detailled than what I found out
00:37:01julian37but halodo suggest to run GC at controlled points in time
00:37:11julian37which makes sense to me -- when you know nothing's on the JS "stack"
00:37:22julian37so that's what I'm trying to do... only it doesn't seem to collect much :-/
00:37:41julian37I suspect the issue is less GC not working and more stale references somewhere
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10:18:36NimBotnim-lang/Nim devel 696b89c wt [+0 ±1 -0]: Fix osproc.close
10:18:36NimBotnim-lang/Nim devel 92f2fd9 Dominik Picheta [+0 ±1 -0]: Merge pull request #3527 from tulayang/devel... 2 more lines
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10:55:15thedukeIs there a proc/statement for getting the type of a variable at runtime?
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11:00:03thedukeecho(type(myVar)) does not work
11:03:57Arrrrhttp://ideone.com/xn9LD8
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11:17:34theduke@Arrrr: thanks
11:17:51theduketaking my first steps with nim, but very impressed so far
11:18:49ArrrrYep, everybody says the same thing, so it must be true
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13:35:40NimBotnim-lang/Nim devel 209a5fc Araq [+0 ±1 -0]: updated old links on the website
13:35:40NimBotnim-lang/Nim devel e9313dd Araq [+0 ±1 -0]: added prefix matching to critbits.nim
13:35:40NimBotnim-lang/Nim devel 81f8760 Araq [+0 ±1 -0]: added newTree to ast.nim
13:35:40NimBotnim-lang/Nim devel 2aff716 Araq [+0 ±4 -0]: os.walkDir is available at compile time
13:35:40NimBot1 more commits.
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13:36:30Araquh oh... did I break booting?
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13:39:05julian37hi Araq
13:41:12ArrrrWhat's the difference between when nimvm: and static: ?
13:41:21Arrrrif any
13:42:34Arrrrah, ok, the else part
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13:43:15Araqstatic is for you, when nimvm is for us
13:43:24Araqcause it
13:43:30Araqis confusing even for us ...
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13:48:15julian37Araq: did you see my questions yesterday about recompilation and stale references? any ideas?
13:49:42Araqwe need the pure RC
13:49:46Araq'ing GC
13:49:56Araqand then these problems magically go away
13:50:36julian37what do you mean by pure GC, you mean fixing the issues around stack with emscripten?
13:52:55Araqyeah
13:53:59julian37but shouldn't the full GC after each compilation collect any leftovers regardless?
13:56:57NimBotnim-lang/Nim devel b6374f1 Araq [+0 ±1 -0]: fixes newly introduced oswalkdir module
13:57:28Araqjulian37: no, the GC cannot make guarantees like that
13:58:25julian37I see
13:58:33Araqalso the compiler uses .acyclic in a wrong fashion to improve performance. you should compile with --gc:markAndSweep
13:58:46Araqif you don
13:58:52Araq't do it already
14:03:15julian37thanks Araq, I'll try that
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14:51:52Araqanybody with Windows 10 around?
14:51:58Araqhttp://forum.nim-lang.org/t/1786
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15:25:48ephjaunsafeAddr, great
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15:46:19elroodAraq, could try in a vm. kind of hard to replicate his environment without more info though. do you have any idea where that "Nim Compiler [..] binary including MingW" would come from or what version of MinGW that's supposed to be?
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16:02:48Varriount_Araq: *raises hand*
16:03:34Varriount_Araq: I don't have that problem.
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16:04:19VarriountAraq: Actually, we should have a big banner on the Nim website saying "Windows 10 Tested", since that's what the Windows Buildbots are running on.
16:07:23Araqah alright
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16:09:11elroodwouldn't hurt to state somewhere which versions of c compilers have been tested successfully, especially when they're such an important dependency as they are for nim
16:09:22Araqbtw any chance we get the new win API wrapper anytime soon?
16:09:48Araqelrood: well the windows installer which is what people have problems with comes with its own version of mingw
16:10:16Varriountgcc (x86_64-win32-seh-rev2, Built by MinGW-W64 project) 4.9.2
16:10:38AraqVarriount: I know your laptop was stolen, but maybe you want to do it all again? *cough*
16:10:46VarriountThat's what the Win64 buildbot uses.
16:11:08VarriountAraq: First I need to finish nimsuggest support for NimLime.
16:11:35VarriountWhich requires a refactoring of Nimsuggest.
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16:18:51elroodAraq, that's why i asked which installer that could be. haven't seen anything hinting to an included mingw in the files available on nim's download site
16:19:38Araqwell you need to run the windows installer and see for yourself
16:19:52Araqit
16:20:37Araqis so sexy that I often play with it rather than doing some programming. (nah, just kidding)
16:22:03elroodanyways, a disclaimer stating cc which versions have been successfully tested and which are known to be buggy would only help, but it's your project and decision of course
16:22:16elrood*which cc versions
16:25:13Araqbbs
16:25:17Varriountelrood: Can't we just say "The latest stable Mingw-w64"?
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16:34:11elroodsure, but what if for some reason somebody doesn't use that? you'll likely run into more of those "i've tried foo with mingw and it crashed, help me" bug reports if nim gets more widespread use
16:34:52Varriountelrood: Mainly due to the fact that the Mingw projects don't have self-updating compilers.
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16:35:25VarriountI one of them has ported pacman to Windows, but it's still in beta
16:35:36elroodgood luck and fun making sense of those, only to find out that the c compiler you depend on was the culprit. just saying, because llvm ran into a number of those, and it was neither a joy nor easy to get to the root of the problem
16:35:36Varriount*I think
16:35:54Varriountelrood: Again, much of this is mitigated by bundling our own version of Mingw.
16:36:45VarriountThere are some plans to have a setup verification step in the installer, for those that want to use an existing Mingw installation.
16:38:13elroodthen again, have fun telling your users they have to live on the bleeding edge and use git head or the most recent and unnecessarily extensive bundled build tool environment when they could just use what they already have
16:39:01elroodnot saying it is a problem now, or even that it'd have to become one later on, just that it would be smart to rule out when you can with not a lot of effort
16:39:18Varriountelrood: Um, I did just say that there were plans to include a verification step, testing the compiler the user wants to use.
16:40:01elroodif you believe that'd be the more convenient way to go, sure. personally i'd doubt it
16:40:49Varriountelrood: Unfortunately, we don't have the resources to test more than a couple versions of Mingw at a time.
16:41:34VarriountWhat would you propose, given the fact that Mingw support can change as new features (threading, mainly) are updated/introduced?
16:43:24elroodthe limited resources are exactly my point. that's why i say it'd make sense to state somewhere near the download site: "we've tested those versions, they are supposed to work, if you use something else please explicitly state so in your bug report"
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16:45:21elroodand if someone uses those and still runs into a problem that a buildbot or any CI testing would have caught, you can easily tell them their environment isn't set up correctly, without puzzling about something like the one Araq referred to on the forum
16:47:10elroodah well, just my two cents, it's not really important
16:53:35Arrrrmaybe Hallo.nim has an infinite loop for some reason, you could ask what he wrote
16:53:59Varriountelrood: Don't sell yourself short. It's a reasonable view of the situation, and something we should probably do.
16:54:36VarriountAlthough, I feel compelled to point out that users don't always read the requirements.
16:54:58VarriountPerhaps that Nim compiler itself could test for the version...
16:55:02Varriount*the
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17:11:17VarriountAraq: How finished is the 'not nil' analysis?
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17:25:46AraqVarriount: the bug tracker reflects reality
17:25:56Araqbut
17:25:58Araqnot nil in general is a though nut
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17:26:34AraqI'm in favour of weaking its requirements and give up 100% correctness to make it useful in practice
17:27:06Araqbut some people disagree
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17:36:20VarriountAraq: What would you name an alias for "string not nil"?
17:37:12VarriountAraq: Problems occur when, say, the checker can't infer that a slice of a not nil string will itself not be nil.
17:41:43AraqFilledString?
17:41:54AraqProperString?
17:42:01AraqNotNilString?
17:42:40AraqWhatStringShouldHaveBeenInTheFirstPlace?
17:42:40VarriountAraq: I ask because there are parts of the standard library that could use it, if only to ensure users of the 'not nil' feature aren't driven insance.
17:42:45Varriount*insane
17:43:00Araqwell the standard library doesn
17:43:00VarriountAraq: What strings should have been in the first place is immutable. :P
17:43:18Araqt use the feature to ensure users aren
17:43:30Araq't driven insane by the nil checker
17:43:59Araqand now it's time for me to reclaim my homeworld. see you later
17:44:19VarriountBye. Expect a PR from me soon in one repository or another.
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18:36:55VarriountAraq: In nimsuggest, is protocol v2 somehow different than protocol v1?
18:37:41VarriountI mean, is the format of the protocol any different, or just the compiler internals?
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18:42:53LibreWulfHey all, I'm having a problem with parallel and bounds checking that I don't really understand, and I've managed to boil it down to the following code snippet: http://paste.debian.net/330839/
18:43:25LibreWulfI can't compile this, I get "foo.nim(14, 21) Error: cannot prove: t <= 499 (bounds check)
18:43:45LibreWulfMoving the assignment into the parallel statement doesn't help either
18:43:51LibreWulfer, parallel block*
18:44:10thedukeIn go there is a special interface{} variable type that let's you pass around variables of any type, and then cast them, do a switch, aka case/of on it's type, etc. Is there an equivalent in nim?
18:46:06thedukeAlso, considering a ducktyping approach: is there an operator or proc to check if a proc/method is available for a certain type or variable?
18:49:52ArrrrMaybe concepts http://nim-lang.org/docs/manual.html#generics-concepts
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18:55:03drsis there some documentation on how Future / await (async?) is implemented in Nim?
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18:56:03ephjait's a macro
18:57:34ephjadrs: here's one example http://nim-lang.org/docs/asyncnet.html
18:58:11drsthanks
18:58:27Varriounttheduke: Sorta. What are you trying to do?
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19:16:00thedukeArrrr: thanks again
19:16:28thedukeVarriount: i'm evaluating nim right now. One specific example: I would like to write a bdd style test framework
19:16:45thedukethink Expect(x).To(Equal(y))
19:17:10thedukeboth expect and equal() would have to accept any type, and then compare them
19:19:08thedukeI guess it could be done with macros , and/or overloading
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19:19:43desophostemplating
19:19:52desophoser...... generics i mean
19:19:58desophosi always get those mixed up
19:20:43desophosnvm
19:20:47desophosi see what you want
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19:24:09desophosyou might be able to template `to`
19:25:03desophosso `expect x to equal y` would become `expect equal(x, y)`
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19:26:23Varriounttheduke: Generics and multimethods should help. Also the typeinfo module for run-time time inspection.
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19:28:26thedukeVarriount: just discovered it 30 seconds ago. I guess I could template functions like equals() to use typeinfo.toAny(). Or figure it out with generics
19:28:42thedukeAnyway, thanks for the pointers @Varriount, desophos
19:28:45thedukeI'll do some digging
19:29:18desophosBDD should be very possible with the power of templates theduke
19:29:57desophosjust rewording
19:30:50VarriountLibreWulf: Still having trouble?
19:31:11LibreWulfYeah, I'm not sure why
19:31:37LibreWulfmy actual use case for this is having parallel inside a loop, which also doesn't compile due to bounds checking
19:31:57LibreWulfinteresting, in neither examples does --boundChecks: off allow it to compile
19:32:50VarriountAraq: You here?
19:33:19VarriountLibreWulf: Unfortunately, the parallel feature hasn't gotten enough real-world testing.
19:33:46LibreWulfI understand, I expect as much from anything requiring an experimental pragma
19:34:18thedukeSide question: is anyone using nim in production for clients?
19:34:40thedukewould be eager to hear about experiences / stability , etc
19:35:21Varriounttheduke: What kind of clients?
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19:36:32VarriountAraq and gokr both work at 3DICC, which is using Nim as a replacement for C++ for their 3d VR sofware.
19:37:19VarriountThere's the forum and NimBot, both written in Nim.
19:37:42Arrrrdesophos: how is your game going on
19:38:01desophosit's pretty good Arrrr, need to figure out what to do next
19:38:18desophosi haven't really planned it out very well :x
19:39:05thedukeVarriount: I just mean proffessionally, not just for hobby projects
19:40:28Varriounttheduke: Again, there's gokr, Araq, and 3DICC
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19:42:29desophosArrrr: i created a trello board and a hacknplan project for it but haven't really touched either
19:42:51Arrrrwhat is hacknplan
19:43:22desophosit's a new indie game project planner in beta
19:43:27desophosbut free
19:43:39desophoshacknplan.com
19:43:59AraqLibreWulf: hi
19:44:05LibreWulfHello
19:44:05Arrrrthe classic todo but more complicated you mean
19:44:18desophossure
19:44:28AraqVarriount: --v2 adds some features
19:44:34Araqand extended the protocol
19:47:31Araqtheduke: using interface{} and runtime dynamism for testing is pretty ridiculous if you ask me. have you looked at unittest.nim?
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19:51:47AraqLibreWulf: not sure,
19:51:59desophosArrrr: more complicated in good ways, hopefully
19:53:08Araqreport it properly please, at the very least I can disable the bounds checker for you and make it only produce warnings
19:53:21*Araq is away again
19:57:21thedukeAraq: did so now. It's all done with macros there, I see. I really have to wrap my head around the whole template/macro metaprogramming concept.
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20:36:21Arrrrdesophos you could program a noob friendly game engine, flash has flashpunk which used to be quite popular http://useflashpunk.net/
20:37:37desophosArrrr: there's nimgame which hasn't been updated in years, but i haven't seen anything else like a game engine or framework for Nim
20:37:53desophosbut idk if i'm competent enough to write an engine haha
20:38:59Arrrryou know what a newcomer in nim would like to see, that's important
20:39:37ephjaflash, oh god :p
20:40:50Arrrrit is a good tool as long as you dont use it for web dev
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20:46:25mat4hello
20:51:58NimBotnim-lang/Nim devel f9ad735 Araq [+0 ±2 -0]: documented untyped/typed meta-types
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21:36:13desophoswhat's Nim's bitwise xor operator?
21:36:49desophosis it just "xor"?
21:37:20desophossimilarly, are `and`/`&` and `or`/`|` equivalent?
21:37:30desophos(bitwise)
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21:41:28mat4desophos: its 'xor'
21:42:44mat4if you search for a function name or expression, simply refer to the index: http://nim-lang.org/docs/theindex.html
21:43:19desophosi did find xor but i didn't know if it works bitwise
21:44:14mat4proc `xor`(x, y: int64): int64 {.magic: "BitxorI", noSideEffect.}
21:44:43desophosah i see
21:44:45mat4as you see, it is the bitwise xor operation
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21:45:02desophosthat index seems quite useful, thanks
21:45:57mat4it is (however your browser should include a content wise search function)
21:46:20desophosi found xor in the manual but it says nothing about bitwise
21:46:27desophosi was not aware of the index
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22:29:56Varriount_Araq: I notice that the compiler doesn't notice the difference between "--run" and "--r"
22:31:02Araqis there any?
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23:19:14nchambersAraq: --run has two extra letters
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23:43:37Varriount_Well, since the solution to fix it would either require a macro, or doubling the argument parsing code, I don't think I'll push to get the... feature fixed.
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23:54:55Soakhello, say I want to read a binary file byte by byte, is there a way to do that simply with a sort of buffer? Actually I readFile() then I loop with a for on each index of the string from readFile() (say in the var varstringfile), say I use "i" as the counter in the for loop, then I work with varstringfile[i] so I saw the streams library with a readChar() var, but with that, I need to manually increase the position of the stream with a secondary var as a counter,
23:54:55Soakit's not elegant, is anyone having an idea please?
23:55:27SoakreadChar() proc* sorry
23:58:27ephjaand with streams http://nim-lang.org/docs/streams.html#newFileStream,File
23:59:58Soakyes I used that with the readChar() proc from this library