<< 11-02-2015 >>
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00:10:32ekarlsoflaviu: get any layout fixes ? : p
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00:18:11akiradeveloperAraq: thanks. it works, maybe
00:21:37flaviuekarlso: chicken is pretty delicious. Not sure that you can do anything with that advice :P
00:21:41flaviuWorking on it now.
00:27:35ekarlsodom96: just for curiousity
00:27:44ekarlsoI wonder if you should deprecate --ver for "list"
00:27:59ekarlsoit might end up querying alot of packages :|
00:28:14dom96yeah, which is why it's not on by default
00:28:22ekarlso:P
00:29:08ekarlsodom96: now a question, assuming a user is using both registry and packages.json at the same time... should it display from both sources at once ? : |
00:31:06dom96for now, no.
00:31:10dom96keep it simple
00:32:50flaviudom96: Also, how about running a small "dist" test suite on installation?
00:33:00flaviuShort and basic sanity checks.
00:33:32dom96Create an issue on github for that
00:35:45flaviudone: https://github.com/nim-lang/nimble/issues/95
00:36:17ekarlsohmmms, how to determine if a user is using a registry or not -,,-
00:37:33dom96ekarlso: Maybe it would be easier if you just left the implementation to me?
00:39:02flaviuekarlso: It's not working for me, I get a 404 from Jester when I access http://localhost:3000/
00:40:40flaviumy bad, sorry
00:41:29flaviuDid filwit disappear again?
00:42:05ekarlsofilwit ?
00:42:08AraqI know I know I'm a crank, but ... why should nimble run tests? what do you do when these fail? try anyway?
00:42:22Araqcause that's what I would do
00:43:08AraqI will try to *use* it anyway and that is already the test that matters
00:44:11flaviuMy idea is for the tests to be really basic.
00:44:24flaviuDoes it compile and run the basic example? Pass.
00:44:29Araqbut what does that mean?
00:44:39AraqI install it to compile stuff anyway
00:45:01AraqI don't install it in order to not use it
00:45:11flaviuSay I'm installing a library that depends on some other stuff. If the sanity tests fail on one dependency, I know where to look for the problem.
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00:46:03flaviuSay I'm installing a new library and I have no idea what I'm doing. If the sanity test fails, I know it's not my fault things are broken.
00:46:23Araqyeah but you can run these things *after* something failed
00:46:34Araqyou don't need to run them upfront
00:46:48flaviuThey cost nearly nothing to run.
00:47:21Araqdo you check the battery life before calling someone?
00:48:06flaviuI'm not sure what that's supposed to mean.
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00:50:38dom96I agree with Araq.
00:50:45dom96We can have a "test" subcommand
00:50:58dom96but performing tests on installation doesn't sound useful
00:51:24ekarlsothnx for the faith lol dom96 :p
00:52:10Araqflaviu: people will make nimble run *all* the tests anyway.
00:52:22Araqyou cannot tell everybody to only include "basic" tests
00:52:27Araqwhatever that should mean
00:52:39Araqand so Nimble will run the tests
00:52:46Araq3 out of 20 fail
00:52:56Araqand I ignore them happily
00:53:05Araqif I can, that is
00:54:30flaviudom96: That's acceptable. Although I would like if there was also a nimble install --test
00:54:50flaviuFor the insane people like me who want to run tests upon installation.
00:55:59dom96flaviu: I would like to only maintain the things in Nimble that are truly necessary.
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00:56:18Araqflaviu: the first command for Maven that I had to look up was "how do I disable tests"
00:56:28flaviudom96: Well, recursively running tests is no fun.
00:57:59dom96flaviu: Nimble's API is exposed, you can easily write a thing that does that for you.
01:02:40Araqgood night
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01:09:21ekarlsodom96: https://github.com/ekarlso/nimble/tree/registry
01:09:23ekarlsoupdated
01:09:30ekarlsolooking better ?
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07:44:13leonleehi, i'm trying build nim on unbuntu, which recommend gcc version?
07:45:07fowlmouthleonlee, you have options?
07:46:04leonleegit clone -b master git://github.com/Araq/Nim.git
07:46:11fowlmouthleonlee, use devel branch
07:46:30fowlmouthand the latest gcc you can get
07:46:40leonleesorry, my current gcc version is 4.6.3
07:47:01leonleeDo i need to update it to 4.9?
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07:48:01fowlmouthleonlee, do you have an error or something? any gcc version is fine, nim doesnt target gcc, it targets c
07:48:32fowlmouthso you need a version of gcc that can compile c code
07:48:52leonleeyes, i met some errors:
07:49:13leonleeleon@ws-svr:~/lab/nim4c$ gcc -o m -Inimcache -I/home/leon/opt/nim/lib nimcache/*.c mth.c
07:49:13leonleenimcache/system.c: In function ‘allocinv_34409’:
07:49:13leonleenimcache/system.c:7867:10: warning: format ‘%ld’ expects argument of type ‘long int’, but argument 2 has type ‘NI’ [-Wformat=]
07:49:13leonlee printf("%ld %p\012", (*it).Zerofield, it);
07:49:13leonlee ^
07:49:20leonleenimcache/system.c: In function ‘writecell_49018’:
07:49:22leonleenimcache/system.c:8330:2: warning: format ‘%d’ expects argument of type ‘int’, but argument 5 has type ‘NI’ [-Wformat=]
07:49:25fowlmouthstop
07:49:25leonlee fprintf(stdout, "[GC] %s: %p %d rc=%ld; color=%ld\012", msg, c, kind, (NI)((NU64)((*c).Refcount) >> (NU64)(3)), (NI)((*c).Refcount & 3));
07:49:30leonlee ^
07:49:32leonleenimcache/system.c:8330:2: warning: format ‘%ld’ expects argument of type ‘long int’, but argument 6 has type ‘long long int’ [-Wformat=]
07:49:33fowlmouthdont paste in here
07:49:35leonleenimcache/system.c:8330:2: warning: format ‘%ld’ expects argument of type ‘long int’, but argument 7 has type ‘NI’ [-Wformat=]
07:49:38fowlmouthhh
07:49:38leonleesystem.c:(.text+0xffbb): undefined reference to `dlclose'
07:49:40leonleesystem.c:(.text+0xffe6): undefined reference to `dlopen'
07:49:42leonleesystem.c:(.text+0x1001b): undefined reference to `dlsym'
07:49:44leonleecollect2: error: ld returned 1 exit status
07:49:49leonleesorry, let me try pastbin
07:50:03fowlmouthdid you use branch master or devel
07:50:17leonleeim in China, pastbin was blocked by Great Wall Firewall
07:50:29leonleedevel branch
07:50:30fowlmouthtry gist.github.com
07:52:17leonleeok
07:56:44leonleehttps://gist.github.com/b3a8ec6a675b5dc11beb.git
07:57:01leonleeim following http://nim-lang.org/backends.html#backend-code-calling-nim
07:57:58fowlmouthwhy are you are manually invoking gcc?
07:59:05leonleethe tutorial guide me
08:00:40fowlmouthboot strapping instructions are here https://github.com/Araq/Nim#compiling
08:01:00leonleeI'm newbie, not understand it actually.
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08:03:16leonleehow to uninstall nim that installed by koch install? maybe my installation is broken.
08:07:39fowlmouthim not sure i can help you, stick around for a bit because its morning in europe more people will be here
08:08:48leonleeok, thanks, i will try it on another host.
08:08:55fowlmouthto uninstall delete the files that were put there in installation
08:09:36leonleeI have deleted the bin of nim and .nimble under ~
08:10:18leonleeit's gone now, let me install again
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08:13:54gokrHey
08:14:25gokrleonlee: Its better to not "install" Nim at all, just point your path to the bin dir in the Nim dir, that's enough.
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08:15:05leonleeok, i will try this way
08:15:06gokrThat way you can have several Nims. In fact, I made a softlink to the nim executable, and switch that softlink around to be able to use different Nims (devel, master etc).
08:15:53gokrAlso, I wrote an article on the bootstrapping process - if you are curious on how it works. All my articles are here: http://goran.krampe.se/category/nim
08:16:05leonleegreat, likes erln8, it's really helpful for multi-version
08:16:27gokrThe nim executable will find everything else relative to its own position.
08:16:44gokrIf you install it - then... things get more complicated :)
08:17:11leonleeok
08:17:15gokrSo... did you bootstrap successfully or?
08:17:34gokrIf you use "-b devel" then you also need to use "-b devel" for the csources clone
08:17:38leonleeclone not finished, 95% now
08:17:54leonleeim on master now
08:18:04gokrOk, as long as you use the same branch for csources.
08:18:17leonleegot it
08:18:21fowlmouthuse devel branch for both
08:18:30gokrYeah, I would also use devel :)
08:18:35fowlmouthdevel branch is the default branch btw, so if you didnt specify, it should be devel
08:18:41gokrIt is?
08:18:41fowlmouth(for nim and csources repos)
08:19:44leonleeim following Bootstrapping Nim(rod), thanks gokr
08:19:58gokrThis is going to be... an interesting day. Got some fellas coming here to drill a 240m hole into the bedrock.
08:20:36gokrAbout 10 meters from where I sit and work. Hehe... I think its going to get loud.
08:21:05gokrleonlee: So... how come you noticed Nim?
08:21:17gokrJust curious, since there is a big influx right now.
08:21:29gokrMe myself is quite fresh here too.
08:25:05leonleeYeah, it's interesting. Im using erlang for gaming server, but block with some performance problem, then i try to move the part to c codes by NIF, but im not familiar with c, then i tred Vala and ooc, but finally i met Nim by some guys suggestions on stackoverflow.com
08:25:26leonleemobile game, not PC game.
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08:28:47Araqleonlee: for uninstalling there is an uninstall.sh script
08:28:55leonleeThe syntax is really comfortable of Nim, after i read the article of Dennis Felsing, i realize nim is a good choice for my situation.
08:29:50leonleeit's done, than you araq
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08:30:22leonleemost guys prefer Luajit, but I prefer static typing lang
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08:38:44leonleeAre there some guides on how to use clang with nim?
08:40:25gokrYou mean instead of gcc?
08:40:59leonleeyes
08:41:21gokrI think you just... set it in a config, where is that page now...
08:41:52leonleelet me find it out
08:41:59def-leonlee: just write "nim c --cc:clang file"
08:42:26gokrYou have this page (from docs on homepage): http://nim-lang.org/nimc.html
08:42:36gokrBut... I recall some other page...
08:42:41leonleewow, then clang come, thank u guys
08:43:38def-leonlee: and you can change your default to clang in Nim's config/nim.cfg
08:44:03gokrdef-: That's the page I am looking for...
08:45:29leonleei didn't bootstrap yet, i will try it later
08:45:55gokrAh, bottom of the FAQ: http://nim-lang.org/question.html
08:46:36gokrAlso, I am slightly confused about which doc pages are on the homepage, and which are not. I guess its just a selected few?
08:47:11gokrLike say http://nim-lang.org/backend.html
08:47:26gokrEhm http://nim-lang.org/backends.html
08:51:50leonleeyeah, got it
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08:52:38gokrAh, right, the homepage is generated by "koch" and uses the tools/nimweb.nim tool to do it. And simply picks selected parts of docs via ... web/nim.ini
08:58:26gokrHa, generated pdfs. Neato.
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09:12:57Araqshould we move the pragmas listed in nimc.html into the manual?
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09:13:36Araqthe idea was to cleanly distinguish between the spec and things that are implementation specific
09:14:08Araqbut it's only confusing that the manual misses some pragmas, I think
09:14:18gokrYeah, I would agree.
09:16:19gokrEhm... "LLVM backend"?
09:18:16Araqwhy the "ehm"?
09:18:26gokrSo... we have a LLVM backend?
09:18:40Araqno.
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09:19:09Araqwork on the LLVM backend has been abandoned
09:19:27gokrAh, ok. Then perhaps we can strike the "Note:" bits in: http://nim-lang.org/nimc.html
09:19:31gokr(search for LLVM)
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09:20:03gokrAlthough it does say "will" ;)
09:20:10Araqyeah exactly
09:20:22Araqit's perfectly clear
09:20:24gokrHehe
09:30:30fowlmouthif you change a variable's meaning you should also change its name, right?
09:30:45ekarlsodom96: morning
09:32:50Araqfowlmouth: no, you should decouple a variable's name from its meaning.
09:33:52Triplefoxif you can't get them in sync, the name should be intentionally disposable
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09:38:42fowlmouthAraq, name all variables a1,a2,..?
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09:43:42Araqfowlmouth: well you know that's what I do ;-)
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10:21:40ekarlso.eval var foo = @[1,2,3]; foo &= @[4,5,6]
10:21:49ekarlsostupid bot..
10:22:31ekarlsowhat's the best way to extend list a with list b ?
10:25:21Araqadd
10:26:02ekarlsocan u foo.add(bar) ?
10:26:19BlaXpirityes
10:26:28ekarlsoI mean, if bar is a seq
10:26:34BlaXpirityes
10:26:39BlaXpiritit's in the doc...
10:26:43ekarlsook
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10:26:46ekarlso:p
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10:59:24kashyap_Hi, is {.threadvar.} pragma supposed to insert __thread in the generated C? It does not seem to do it.
11:01:00Araqkashyap_: it does with --threads:on
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11:25:27kashyap_Araq_ I believe --threads:on is not an option for kernel right?
11:26:07kashyap_or perhaps have some kind of stub GC?
11:33:24kashyap_Araq?
11:33:54Araqkashyap_: it's never been tested, but it should work just fine
11:34:15Araq--threads:on doesn't imply anything with --gc
11:34:38kashyap_I get the undefined "initGC" with threads on
11:35:21kashyap_undeclared sorry
11:35:38kashyap_lib/system/threads.nim(216, 4) Error: undeclared identifier: 'initGC'
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11:45:53dvdplmHello! New to Nim. Struggling to find out how to generate random numbers.
11:46:23dvdplmI need 16 random bytes for an IV and I’d like them to be of “cryptographic quality”.
11:47:01dvdplmI tried to `nimbler install random` but it fails with an “Unsatisified dependency: num (>= 0.10.3)”
11:51:12flaviuI think the author might have made a typo
11:53:39dvdplmShould I simply go with `math.randomize()` and `math.random()`?
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12:06:22Araqdvdplm: no, you really MUST not use these for anything that's not a toy
12:07:02dvdplm@araq: :( Yeah, that’s what I reckoned. This is for an IV.
12:07:30dvdplmI’m looking for something like this (in Ruby): `OpenSSL::Random.random_bytes(16)`
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12:09:37Araqkashyap_: in system.nim disable the line include "system/threads"
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12:09:57Araqdvdplm: install the random package by hand then
12:11:06kashyap_Araq is there a workaround the "undeclared initGC" problem?
12:11:16Araqkashyap_: in system.nim disable the line include "system/threads"
12:12:13kashyap_is that something that can go into nim proper too?
12:12:52kashyap_I mean, I'd prefer not to have a "custom nim" for the kernel :)
12:14:04kashyap_I am anyway using the devel branch ...
12:22:38kashyap_Not quite sure what happened but removing the include does get rid of the error and the kernel builds with __thread appropriately
12:23:39kashyap_I presume, in the Nim source that include needs to be there right?
12:25:00Araqkashyap_: of course it'll go into proper Nim
12:25:15Araqdo I need to submit things in realtime now?
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12:31:19kashyap_:) not at all - happy to hear
12:32:02kashyap_excellent .. I'll close todays bug and open a new one for this one for tracking ?
12:32:21Araqtoday's bug is still valid
12:32:38kashyap_oh I see ... I open a new one then
12:32:49Araqok
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12:47:56ekarlsodom96: you about ?
12:50:00ekarlsoanyways, I updated the branch
12:50:41ekarlsostill needs a bit of a cleanup but
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12:58:08ekarlsoflaviu: did yo uget anywhere with the patch ?
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15:05:03Xoramaproc test(x: string): string = var v: string = x, "asdf" return v echo(test("39"))
15:05:11XoramaWhy does this not work?
15:15:56Jehan_Hard to tell without indentation, but what is the ', "asdf"' meant to accomplish?
15:16:42XoramaYes I always get the error invalid indentation
15:16:59XoramaBut my indentation is correct, I think
15:17:24Jehan_What I tried to say is that I can only guess at what your code looks like because I'm not seeing how it's indented.
15:17:53Jehan_But my guess is that you simply need to remove the , "asdf".
15:18:28XoramaYes. If I remove the "asdf" it works
15:18:44XoramaBut I want to return 39asdf
15:19:08Jehan_Well, "," is not string concatenation.
15:19:21XoramaOh
15:19:22Jehan_Use "&" instead.
15:19:47Jehan_Without the quotes, of course.
15:19:51XoramaThank you
15:19:54XoramaNow it works
15:20:25vegaiare there some other languages where & is string concat?
15:23:01Jehan_Ada, Modula-3. Various BASIC dialects.
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15:25:51vegaiok
15:25:56DecoPersonhowdy!
15:26:00EXetoCwas it "echo x, y" that made you think it would work? they are actually separate arguments
15:26:01DecoPersonany ideas on this? https://gist.github.com/Deco/6dbc81ae3e05e038792d
15:27:55EXetoCthat might be referring to code that isn't included
15:29:04EXetoCok I get that error message when I define the type
15:29:45DecoPersonupdated the gist with SSCCE: https://gist.github.com/Deco/6dbc81ae3e05e038792d
15:32:16Jehan_You have template parameters with the same names as object constructor elements.
15:32:40Jehan_The code expands to MatD[float](4: 4, 4: 4).
15:32:52EXetoCbut those are ints
15:32:57EXetoCand that doesn't seem to be the problem
15:33:25Jehan_It does, MatD[float](4: 4, 4: 4) isn't valid Nim.
15:34:34DecoPersonthanks, that fixed the problem https://gist.github.com/Deco/6dbc81ae3e05e038792d
15:35:05EXetoCbut this works "proc matD[T](n,m: int): MatD[T] = MatD[T](n: 4, m: 4)"
15:35:47EXetoCJehan_: doesn't that apply only to expr?
15:36:02Jehan_EXetoC: Because procs don't do substitution.
15:36:25EXetoCthen why does the above code work?
15:36:35Jehan_It's a proc, not a template.
15:37:56DecoPersonIf I had a `matC` proc that defined a constant matrix, it'd be as fast as a template as long as it's {.inline.}, right? (and in release mode)
15:38:03Jehan_A template is a macro; it does not know much about its contents, it basically generates/transforms an AST. The proc can distinguish between whether an "n" is a variable/parameter or part of an object constructor because it has semantic information.
15:38:13Jehan_DecoPerson: Depends.
15:38:39Jehan_{.inline.} makes sure that the code is generated such that the C compiler backend can actually inline the code.
15:38:55Jehan_Whether the backend does so depends on the C compiler and some parameters.
15:39:09DecoPersonBut doesn't guarantee LLVM will inline it... phooey
15:39:15DecoPersontemplates it is then
15:39:30Jehan_Yup. Templates are basically for inlining at the Nim level.
15:40:01Jehan_Well, among other things. They have multiple applications, but this is one of them.
15:43:13EXetoCone day I'll remember these things..
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15:44:32DecoPersonEverything I've tried to experiment with in Nim, I've hit a roadblock and said "this language sucks"
15:44:42DecoPersonand then realised Nim has a far better way than I expected
15:44:52DecoPersonand said "wow", e.g: https://gist.github.com/Deco/2a7dfd4ba64076f52e8e
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15:46:28DecoPersonhmm.. how would I denote an arbitrarily-sized array?
15:47:39Jehan_seq[T]?
15:48:02DecoPersonbut seq stores the size, which I don't need
15:48:50DecoPersonI need the equivalent of a malloc/realloc array
15:51:02Jehan_Well, malloc() also stores the size, you just don't see it. That said, if you absolutely want to avoid the fixed-size overhead, you will have to basically roll your own restricted version of seq using unchecked arrays.
15:51:31Jehan_Unless you know the size at compile time and it doesn't change, in which case there are alternative solutions.
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15:56:27gmpreussner|workquick question on constructor procs: does the newXYZ() convention expect instances to be created on the heap, or is it used for stack allocation as well? i haven't found consistent usage in the stdlib.
15:57:26gokrgmpreussner|work: I think for stack you use initXYZ
15:57:41gmpreussner|workah ok
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16:31:17Araqhrm we have way too many test categories
16:31:28Araqstdlib vs collections vs tables ?
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16:36:28arc619why are tables in their own unit vs collections, just out of interest?
16:39:40arc619er, ignore me sorry thought there was a collections unit, oops.
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17:22:56Varriount|Busy>_>
17:24:01ldlework<_<
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17:55:24Araqdom96: don't we have an implementation of fsmonitor for windows?
17:56:39dom96Araq: Varriount|Busy created one IIRC
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18:14:59gokrdvdplm: Did you see: https://github.com/Varriount/nimrod-random
18:21:36Varriount|BusyAraq: Yes, I created one.
18:22:14Varriount|BusyAraq: Eh, that's not originally my repository - it's been forked from Blaxspirit
18:24:45Varriount|BusyAraq: I wonder, do you think for the next Nim release, we should use profile-guided optimization to make the compiler even faster?
18:25:54def-Varriount|Busy: have you tried it, how much faster is it?
18:26:35Varriount|Busydef-: I haven't tried it yet. I was thinking of running a instrumented version of Nim off the test suite
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19:15:02ekarlsodom96: you tharr ? :)
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19:50:17dom96ekarlso: Please just ask me if you have a question instead of asking if i'm here.
19:50:26dom96*ask me the question
19:52:57ekarlsodom96: sure, i posted a new change, care to look ?
19:53:09dom96ekarlso: Can't right now.
19:53:13dom96I'll look later.
19:53:37ekarlsodom96: kk
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20:32:13Mat4hello
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20:38:40dvdplm@gokr yes, it refuses to install with `Unsatisfied dependency: nim (>= 0.10.3)`
20:41:43def-dvdplm: i guess you need to bootstrap the devel compiler then
20:41:46def-https://github.com/araq/nim
20:42:06def-or wait until 0.10.4 is released
20:42:33dvdplm@def …or ask BalXpirit to fix it?
20:42:57def-i think there's a bug in 0.10.2 so it doesn't work with it
20:43:07dvdplmah, I see. :/
20:43:11dvdplmbummer
20:43:34def-bootstrapping is really easy though, takes only 2 minutes
20:44:05BlaXpirithi
20:44:06dvdplm:)
20:44:24dvdplmHi! Just the man I was looking for. :)
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20:45:48BlaXpiritwell i replied on github
20:45:58BlaXpiritthere is a workaround to make it work on 0.10.2
20:46:08BlaXpiritbut no, that's not a typo i made
20:47:04dvdplmgiotcha, reading the github issue comment now
20:47:15dvdplmPErhaps something to put in the readme too?
20:47:35dvdplmEither way, many thanks, I’ll go with installing devel version
20:48:29Mat4I've seen the SDL2 wrapper is actualized ?
20:48:38BlaXpiritis what?
20:49:58Mat4compiles with the recent Nim version
20:50:04BlaXpiritoh
20:52:57Mat4at least I hope so
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20:54:12def-Mat4: yes, worked last i tried
20:54:37Mat4thanks
21:03:27def-Anyone know any Googlers interested in Nim?
21:04:01ekarlsohas google shown interest ?
21:05:25def-I'm asking because of GSoC 2015
21:05:34def-https://github.com/Araq/Nim/wiki/GSoC-2015-Ideas
21:05:51Jehan_I have no idea how their internal decision process works.
21:06:23Jehan_I suspect that even if you know somebody there, chances are that that person is not even remotely involved.
21:07:05Jehan_If you just want to know what they are looking for, I suspect you may be able to find stuff on the web more readily.
21:07:14def-the response from last year was:
21:07:15def-<carols> for next year i'd say take a couple ideas off the page and flesh out the ones you have there
21:07:19def-<carols> and find someone to vouch for you :-)
21:07:58def-Jehan_: are you interested in mentoring any projects?
21:08:35Jehan_def-: I don't have the time right now. :(
21:09:11ekarlsodef-: sorry ot have killed it
21:09:21ekarlsobut the online compiler thingie I already have partially done :p
21:09:26def-ekarlso: that's great =)
21:09:57ekarlsojust gotta finish it up and get it hosted :p
21:10:08def-will you be able to run it from anywhere?
21:10:22ekarlsodef-: how you mean ?
21:10:22def-or do you have to go to the website to use it?
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21:10:31def-can i embed some nim examples into my website with it?
21:10:53ekarlsoit's a REST api with a js / html front
21:11:04def-sounds like a yes
21:11:29ekarlso:D
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21:26:40ekarlsodef-: bad thing to use bootstrap for that too ? :p
21:26:59def-bootstrap, the web thing?
21:27:05def-i don't know much about that
21:27:17ekarlso:P
21:32:53gokrGSOC is quite a lot of work
21:33:44def-gokr: indeed, i hope it will work out
21:33:47gokrPharo has done it before, I was slightly involved, but... there was a lot of work.
21:34:18gokrIf anyone here is interested I can always check with those who handled it there - to see how much work it really is.
21:34:19def-i think it's definitely worth it if we can get some people interested in nim and building cool new stuff in nim
21:34:45ekarlsoone thing I would like to see would be a std lib for http stuff
21:34:47ekarlsolike responses etc
21:35:45gokrIt should be achievable in 12 weeks, by students with limited experience of Nim (probably). Its 8-9 days before application is due.
21:35:56gokr(reading from the conversation on pharo-dev)
21:36:12def-it's application for the organizations now, not for students
21:36:23gokrYes
21:37:19def-and why only students with limited experience in nim?
21:37:25dom96It's definitely worth it. We've got students here (myself included) who would love to work on Nim over the summer for $$.
21:37:28def-maybe we have some students here already who would be interested
21:37:28gokrSo what they do first (Pharo) is for people to brainstorm ideas - but only ideas that you are prepared to mentor.
21:37:42gokrRemember - mentors needed.
21:37:47ekarlsohmmm
21:38:07ekarlsois there any js thing or so for highlighting that supports nim
21:38:14def-ekarlso: yes, highlight.js
21:38:34def-but pygments for python looks nicer, i think
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21:39:57def-We need a few more mentors I think
21:40:01dom96ekarlso: httpclient should be improved if anything
21:40:19ekarlsowondering to use angularjs or smth else this time :p
21:40:52gokrAlso, from my experience... most of the GSOC projects end up... in the bit bucket in the skye.
21:41:24gokrNot that that should discourage anyone, but its what I have seen.
21:41:37gokr12 weeks go awfully fast if you first need to learn a new language etc.
21:42:01Araqwell but the volunteers likely already know Nim?
21:42:16gokrSure, but still.
21:42:28def-gokr: well, for one the main purpose of gsoc is not to help the project, but to get students more involved with open source and learn something
21:42:34gokrMost of the volunteers for the Smalltalk GSOCs also knew Smalltalk.
21:42:44Araqthey don't have to learn anything, our instructions are so good, it's all just finger exercises ;-)
21:42:48gokrIt was still hard for them to deliver - although many applicants looked very sharp.
21:42:54ekarlsomeh, sucks ace doesn't have support for nim :(
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21:43:12Araqand we only have simple tasks anyway
21:43:26gokrYeah, I am just relaying what I have seen. I like GSOC.
21:43:34Araq</irony off>
21:43:50gokrThere may be some umbrella org that Nim could fit under?
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21:44:13def-gokr: sure, ask mozilla if they want to sponsor Nim!
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21:44:20gokrHehe
21:44:39whitenoiseldlework told me to join this channel, because he told me about Nim and I have decided that it is worth giving a serious go.
21:44:55Araqhi whitenoise welcome
21:45:00whitenoisehello
21:45:36gokrwhitenoise: Where do you want to start?
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21:46:33whitenoisegokr: oh, well, currently i'm working on quite a low-level project that does a lot of syscall hooks into the Linux kernel, and Nim seems to be able to just directly import all of those libraries so that I'll have an easier time there. In addition, I have an embedded system project right now as well for a drone.
21:46:50whitenoisewhich will be a different architecture, but i think the cross compiler can take care of me there
21:47:46gokrSo I guess you should do the bootstrap and use "-b devel" - and play with c2nim.
21:48:18whitenoise-b devel = unstable branch of Nim?
21:48:34gokrYeah, so... on the Download tab - there is a few lines to show you how to bootstrap.
21:48:45gokrMake sure to use "-b devel" on both csources clone and Nim clone.
21:48:54whitenoisegotcha
21:49:08gokrif you want to read about what happens, see http://goran.krampe.se/category/nim (find the Bootstrapping article there)
21:49:33gokrthen don't bother "installing" - just make sure you can run bin/nim (a softlink works fine)
21:49:48gokrnim (the compiler) will find everything relative to itself.
21:49:52whitenoiseexcellent, thanks. i bookmarked the blog
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21:50:02whitenoisei'm actually at work atm, so unfortunately i can't take off at the moment
21:50:09gokrNo prob
21:50:25gokrAnd for all the more complicated questions - listen to Araq :)
21:50:28whitenoisebut a helpful community is ++
21:50:31whitenoiseaha, i see :P
21:50:51gokrI am fairly new here too - but this community is very friendly IMHO
21:50:52ekarlsoclang: error: unknown argument: '-fstack-protector-strong'
21:50:57ekarlsoanyone know how to fix that ? :p
21:51:44def-ekarlso: what clang version is that?
21:51:45gokrAn extra dash?
21:52:17def-ekarlso: because my clang knows -fstack-protector-strong (3.5.1)
21:53:01ekarlsoUbuntu clang version 3.4-1ubuntu3 (tags/RELEASE_34/final) (based on LLVM 3.4)
21:54:04gokrekarlso: Seems to be too old clang: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=75010
21:54:18ekarlsoyeh
21:54:21def-strange that nim depends on such a new clang version
21:56:04ekarlsonot nim
21:56:06ekarlso:p
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22:00:25ekarlsoany good thing for sandboxing processes ?
22:01:08ldleworkekarlso: from a security perspective, or a cleanliness perspective?
22:01:21ldleworkVMs for the former, Containers for the later.
22:01:34ekarlsoldlework: I mean for something like a nim play site
22:01:44ldleworkMy answer stands.
22:03:58ekarlso:/
22:05:57ekarlsodocker ? :p
22:09:49def-ekarlso: hm, isn't a simple sandbox/jail good enough?
22:10:19ldleworkekarlso: Docker shouldn't be used for security purposes.
22:10:48def-I wouldn't trust the server anyway that runs untrusted Nim snippets all day
22:11:28ekarlsodef-: any program that does that ?
22:11:36def-ekarlso: maybe playpen: https://github.com/thestinger/playpen
22:11:55ldlework+1
22:12:02ekarlsoyeah, that was what I was trying
22:12:05ekarlsobut it's not compiling
22:12:16def-compile with gcc?
22:12:35dom96Perhaps AppArmor is the way to go?
22:12:35ekarlsohow -,,-
22:12:43def-ekarlso: ha, doesn't compile for me either
22:12:44dom96or SELinux?
22:12:53def-ekarlso: i guess it requires clang 3.5 and systemd
22:14:17def-ekarlso: are you planning to run it on some server? Maybe you could install a linux distribution which fullfills the dependencies of playpen
22:15:20ekarlsodef-: I got access to a openstack cloud so running it there ;P
22:15:24ekarlsoall for free :P
22:15:42dom96I knew a guy who used SELinux for this sort of stuff.
22:15:46ekarlso/usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lsystemd
22:15:53ldleworkdom96: yeah unfortunately all that stuff is very complicated
22:16:03ldleworkboth SELinux and AppArmor
22:16:15ekarlsoselinux is ubercomplicated :p
22:16:24ekarlsou can take a rh course for 1-2 weeks about it
22:16:28def-i think playpen will be the easiest, other projects use it too, like https://play.rust-lang.org/ http://tryerl.seriyps.ru/
22:16:57def-ekarlso: can't switch to another distribution?
22:17:09ekarlsowhich one :/
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22:17:28samlarchlinux
22:17:45ekarlsonot on the list :p
22:17:50ekarlsonewest is 14.04 :|
22:18:45def-fedora, opensuse, mandriva, archlinux, redhat should work
22:19:11ekarlsowhy you think they are better ?
22:19:18def-they have systemd
22:19:25ekarlsoubuntu does too ..
22:19:27def-no
22:19:40ekarlsook, fine i'll try centos 7
22:19:49def-debian jessie should also work
22:20:13whitenoisedom96: what's this? what are you trying to figure out the right tool for?
22:20:43dom96whitenoise: a try-nim site.
22:20:46Mat4as side remark, in future one will have difficulties finding a Linux distribution which does not integrate systemd
22:20:48whitenoiseah
22:21:45ekarlsoI like these servers -,,-
22:21:48ekarlsossd's :D
22:21:51ekarlsomeep meep
22:24:18ldleworkMat4: let's hope you're wrong
22:24:44whitenoisei mean, everyone should be running selinux or one of the alternatives.
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22:25:09whitenoisebut that's probably off-topic here.
22:25:19ldleworkwhitenoise: I did mention there is #nim-offtopic :)
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22:30:01ekarlsogreat, clang on centos7 is a stoneage old
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22:30:11ekarlso3.4.x :(
22:30:15ekarlsofml
22:30:20ekarlsoany other ideas ? :P
22:31:23BlaXpiritopensuse?
22:32:04Mat4FreeBSD
22:32:24BlaXpirit...
22:32:33BlaXpiritMat4 pls
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22:33:34BlaXpiritaren't we looking for something that has systemd
22:37:49def-ekarlso: maybe you can update it?
22:38:39ekarlsodef-: fedora 20 maybe..
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22:39:56def-i only see clang 3.5 for fedora 21
22:39:58ldleworkAsk the Rust community?
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22:40:25def-ah no, you can get it from here directly: http://llvm.org/releases/download.html
22:40:38BlaXpiritmeh
22:40:46BlaXpiritjust install a decent distro
22:41:13BlaXpiriteven ubuntu 15.04 would do
22:41:23BlaXpiritprobably
22:46:55ekarlsoarchlinux going up :P
22:47:06ekarlsofound out I had image upload access so :p
22:47:55BlaXpiritcongrats
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23:16:37Mat4ciao
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