<< 11-03-2018 >>
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00:04:36ipjkAraq: sorry for the bogus pull-request, I had totally missed that os-module exported ospaths.
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03:41:42FromGitter<gogolxdong> How to use auto jump to definition in CentOS GNOME Desktop enviroment?
03:44:37FromGitter<gogolxdong> VSCode has been installed as well as Nim extension, everything is No definition found for .... , this works well in windows.
03:47:19libman_Does that OS package nimsuggest with nim / where you able to compile it manually?
03:47:39*libman_ had much annoyance with it on FreeBSD.
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04:27:14FromGitter<gogolxdong> Doesn't nimsuggest compile automatically? There is no nimsuggest executable after the installation instruction .
04:31:03FromGitter<gogolxdong> done. use ./koch tools.
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07:31:20FromGitter<konqoro> hey guys is that a bug? ``` ⏎ var b: bool ⏎ try: var b = true ⏎ except: discard ``` [https://gitter.im/nim-lang/Nim?at=5aa4db480a1614b712079234]
07:31:41FromGitter<konqoro> should it through redefinition error?
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08:56:54GitDisc<2vg> not a bug.
08:57:31GitDisc<2vg> variable b is shadowing in the try block.
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09:22:44planetis[m]ok thanks
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10:04:04r3d9u11Hello. Is there in nim a conditional operator, something like a "<condition" ? "value_if_true" : "value_if_false" in c# ?
10:05:26Yardanicor3d9u11, you want to use something like in python: if condition: value_if_true else: value_if_false
10:05:37Yardanicolet myval = if condition: value_if_true else: value_if_false
10:10:10r3d9u11thanks
10:11:33miranAraq, dom96: this compiles and gives output, but it shouldn't, right? `for n in countdown(7, 3, -1): echo n`
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10:21:29FromGitter<jaco60> in fact, the sames goes with countup(4, 10, -1)… :(
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10:32:30FromGitter<gogolxdong> What's the identical in Nim of `ioctl(sockfd, SIOCGIFINDEX, &if_idx)` and `ioctl(sockfd, SIOCGIFHWADDR, &if_mac)`?
10:41:05planetis[m]make the step param Positive?
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11:27:11FromGitter<zacharycarter> miran, @jaco60 - those aren't bugs
11:27:48FromGitter<zacharycarter> look at the source - https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/blob/master/lib/system.nim#L2026 & https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/blob/master/lib/system.nim#L690
11:32:31FromGitter<krux02> Do you really need coutup?
11:34:20FromGitter<krux02> I mean if I had to do something like that, I have the best experience to alwas use this range: `0 ..< N` and then transform the I to match the actual values I need. For examle `let x = N - 2 * i`
11:36:28miranzacharycartes: docstring says: `step` may only be positive. why is then negative allowed?
11:36:58FromGitter<zacharycarter> the type system isn't preventing it
11:37:12mirankrux02: that way is less readable and more error prone, imo
11:38:19FromGitter<zacharycarter> if you really want to figure it out miran, you need to dive into compiler magic probably
11:38:35FromGitter<zacharycarter> of mInc
11:39:08FromGitter<krux02> miran: well I like to disagree. Most of the time I also need the untransformed i, so I prefer to loop my i starting from 0 to N (not inclusive) and when there is the rare case that I don't need the untransformed i, yea I just don't need it, it doesn't bother me.
11:39:48FromGitter<krux02> and when you always create it with a formula like I showed, it is not error prone at all.
11:39:54FromGitter<krux02> It is just all about consistencey.
11:40:06miranzacharycarter: it's not that i want to figure it out, i just find it strange to be allowed
11:40:46FromGitter<krux02> miran: just because something isn't allowed doesn't mean you can't do it
11:41:09FromGitter<krux02> jave doesn't allow to access the real pointer values of their objects, but you can do it if you really really want to
11:41:22mirankrux02: `for i in 0 ..< (seq.len div 2):` to iterate over every other element (with `let n = 2*i`) is unreadable to me :)
11:42:22FromGitter<zacharycarter> wouldn't you want to write anyway
11:42:31FromGitter<krux02> that is true, but to be honest I naver wanted to iterate over every n'th element of a list.
11:43:24FromGitter<zacharycarter> ```var n: uint ⏎ for i in in 0 ..< (seq.len div 2): ⏎ n = 2 * i``` [https://gitter.im/nim-lang/Nim?at=5aa5165b35dd17022e4766ce]
11:44:01FromGitter<zacharycarter> I guess it doesn't matter
11:44:28FromGitter<krux02> @zacharycarter don't use uint
11:44:32miranto be honest, i would be more satisfied if we could do `100 .. 0`, and something like `0..10|2`, rather than use countup/countdown, but that's another story :)
11:44:55FromGitter<zacharycarter> can always issue a RFC
11:45:11FromGitter<krux02> well what would 100 .. 0 be?
11:45:18FromGitter<zacharycarter> counting down I assume
11:45:20mirancountdown(100, 0)
11:45:25FromGitter<krux02> 100, 99, 98, ..., 0?
11:45:31FromGitter<zacharycarter> you could do that in a macro probably miran
11:45:36FromGitter<zacharycarter> but you'd have to use a different symbol I imagine
11:45:45FromGitter<zacharycarter> or even a template I think
11:45:50FromGitter<krux02> and what would 1, 0 be?
11:46:00mirantuple? :D
11:46:01FromGitter<krux02> sorry I mean `1 .. 0`
11:46:23FromGitter<krux02> 1 .. 0 is already defined
11:46:26miranit would be the same as countdown(1, 0), and that should be [1, 0]
11:46:29FromGitter<krux02> and it is the empty seq
11:47:08FromGitter<zacharycarter> but wouldn't that be an array?
11:47:08FromGitter<krux02> so if negative ranges would be allowed, it would only work with both ends exclisive
11:47:11FromGitter<zacharycarter> of 1,0 ?
11:47:41FromGitter<krux02> `2 .. 0` would only contain 1, nothing else
11:47:51miranwhy?
11:48:06miranit's not like that in other languages, from what i can remember
11:48:07FromGitter<krux02> because otherwise you would not be able to represent the empty seq
11:48:14FromGitter<krux02> the empty range
11:49:16FromGitter<krux02> or you change the rangle, to have an exclusive upper bound.
11:50:56miranin F# you can use `..` to go both ways and both bounds are included
11:51:13FromGitter<krux02> with an exclusive upper bound `0 .. 0` in empty no matter what direction you would interpret it.
11:51:26miranindeed
11:51:34FromGitter<krux02> then how does in F# the emty range look like
11:52:46miranyou need to specify -1 if you're counting down, so i guess any (n+x)..(n) is an empty seq
11:53:24miranbtw, having a minus for counting down seems more logical than a positive number
11:53:56FromGitter<krux02> well with exclusive upper bounds a -1 would not be required
11:54:43mirani agree and i prefer exclusive upper bound, but both you and i know who doesn't like that :) and he is in charge :)
11:55:45FromGitter<krux02> `0 .. 3` ^= `0,1,2` ; `0 .. 0` ^= <empty> and `0 .. -3` ^= -1, -2,-3
11:56:11FromGitter<krux02> well to be honest one would need to discussil if 0 .. -3 is `-1, -2, -3` or `0,-1,-2`
11:56:14mirani don't like the las example
11:56:23miranthe latter, imo
11:56:47FromGitter<krux02> I would not be so fast
11:56:56miranall examples should be like current `..<`, no?
11:56:56FromGitter<krux02> 0 is already included in 0 .. 3
11:57:35FromGitter<krux02> and remember exclusive upper bound to be consistent
11:57:49FromGitter<krux02> exclusive upper bound would mean -1, -2, -3
11:57:58miranexclusive "second parameter"
11:58:13FromGitter<krux02> don't like it
11:58:48miran0..-11|-3 = ?
11:58:56FromGitter<krux02> I see the starting and end point as infinitively small points, and the numbers as boulders that are either in the range or not.
11:59:00miran(that's step = 3 in negative direction)
11:59:40FromGitter<krux02> and when you go from one starting point in one direction and you go over a boulder, and then you start at the exact same point and go in the other direction and go over the same boulder, then there is something wrong.
11:59:53miranalso, give me first three members of 0..-1234|-56
12:00:20FromGitter<krux02> we didn't discuss what step means
12:00:24miranin my way, it is easy: 0, -56, -112. in your way: i have no idea
12:00:33FromGitter<krux02> and for my representation there would not be a negative step
12:00:36FromGitter<krux02> only positive
12:01:25FromGitter<krux02> or if you declare a negative step it would invert the order of the order of the number and then take eath n'th element
12:01:55FromGitter<krux02> miran: it is always easy in your way for you, because it is your way and your way of thinking about it
12:02:41miranwell, i'm still waiting for your answer about first three members where 0 is excluded ;)
12:02:43FromGitter<krux02> what I think is to not create braching
12:02:53FromGitter<krux02> no branching in your head and no branching in the implementation
12:03:07FromGitter<krux02> just consistency, so it is easier to work with in generic algorithms
12:04:14FromGitter<krux02> 0 .. -1234, would be [-1, -2, -3, ..., -1234]
12:04:21FromGitter<krux02> then the - would invert the order
12:04:32miranyour way is similar to python's `reversed(range(-1234, 0, 56))`, right? while my is `range(0, -1234, -56)`
12:04:38FromGitter<krux02> so [-1234, -1233, -1232, ...]
12:05:13FromGitter<krux02> and 56 would skip the the first 55 numbers
12:07:31FromGitter<krux02> miran, yes
12:10:50Araqmiran, what's wrong with countdown?
12:10:54FromGitter<krux02> so the seq would be, [-1234, -1178, -1122, ... ]
12:11:34FromGitter<krux02> but this is something that won't change in the language, that much I do know.
12:12:00miranAraq: well, in documentation for both countup and countdown it says that `step` should be positive. but you can pass the negative value, and it works!?
12:12:27miranis this the wanted behaviour?
12:13:56FromGitter<jaco60> Step should be checked, imho
12:14:29FromGitter<jaco60> (by Nim, not by the developper)
12:15:00Araqwell we could make it take 'natural' but the point is
12:15:30Araqthat countdown(x, y, -1) is not the normal usage
12:15:45Araqbut countdown(x, y, 1) since it uses dec already
12:16:26FromGitter<krux02> the documentation could be changed from "is not allowed" to "smells a lot"
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12:17:45FromGitter<krux02> ok people was fun to talk to you, I have to go.
12:17:50miranwhat about having only one proc which alows both x<y and x>y, and by default the step is 1, and to go down, you need step=-1?
12:18:17FromGitter<jaco60> like Python’s range, then ?
12:18:28Araqthat requires a pointless branch
12:18:47miranwell, i would like to write `N..0`, instead of `countdown`
12:18:56miranbut if it is not feasible, ok
12:19:01Araqand I would not like you to write that ;-)
12:19:02FromGitter<krux02> Araq: least branching with exclisive upper bound ;)
12:19:25FromGitter<krux02> reverse possible by swapping a and b
12:19:38FromGitter<krux02> but yea I really have to go
12:22:10AraqCopying bad design is not good design. And Python's design which pretends you want to base the iteration direction on runtime values is a bad design.
12:23:17FromGitter<jaco60> i’m not a big fan of Python’s range… Especially when i want to countdown with these f**g semi-open intervals
12:26:55FromGitter<sivakon> When will we get to version 1? Just curious
12:29:43miransoon (TM)
12:46:20dom96Sometime before the predicted Heat Death of the Universe
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12:58:05miran...if there are no delays
12:59:12dom96Honestly though, we don't know.
12:59:34dom96I personally don't want to make any predictions
12:59:57dom96But me and Araq are definitely feeling the pressure to do it ASAP
13:00:05planetis[m]miran: about the gnuplot wrapper you can use whatever you like I just did my changes
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13:08:18dom96Lite5h4dow: Use gitter if you can instead, webchat is muted and I can only see it
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13:12:09FromGitter<Lite5h4dow> Right, I'm on gutter now
13:12:19FromGitter<Lite5h4dow> Gitter*
13:12:34FromGitter<Lite5h4dow> How are you guys?
13:32:05dom96Okay. Working on a Nim presentation for Friday
13:32:22miranwhere/what will you present?
13:34:37dom96What Nim is, what makes it great, how to install it, etc.
13:35:05dom96In Belfast: a FOSS event has been organised at my Uni http://belfoss.eeecs.qub.ac.uk/
13:39:32miranwill the slides be available online?
13:39:40dom96sure
13:39:50dom96I doubt you'll learn anything new from them though
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13:59:37miranprobably, but it might be interesting for people not familiar with nim (reddit/HN)
14:03:28dom96truer
14:03:30dom96*true
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14:12:58adeohluwadom96: bless!
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14:15:13dom96adeohluwa: Is this a blessing for my upcoming presentation? :)
14:16:28adeohluwa💫 no idea ... that'd be cool tho
14:42:35dom96I love that the official Twitter account for Rust liked this tweet: https://twitter.com/d0m96/status/972466310864130049
15:02:33Yardanicodom96, lol
15:02:46Yardanicowell their twitter account is quite active too
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16:25:16TrustableHi, is there a way, to have implicit conversion from "int" into "int64" on a 64 bit program?
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16:28:29leorizeTrustable: when defined(amd64): converter toInt64(i: int): int64 = i.int64
16:31:47YardanicoTrustable, int is 64-bit on 64bit platform
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16:32:05Trustable@leorize: thank you, this works for me (the other way around as you wrote it)
16:32:19Yardanicoah, I see
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16:32:59Trustable@Yardanico: I know, that's why I don't want to bother as programmer, because both int and int64 are 64 bit, so a conversion is no problem
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16:55:00FromGitter<zetashift> dom86 you should've mentioned that Nim also supports wasm through C no?
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17:12:33YardanicoThrough C+ Emscripten :)
17:18:03FromGitter<mratsim> That’s like saying Mac supports windows game through VirtualBox ;)
17:18:38FromGitter<mratsim> (without the performance penalty though)
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17:45:36dom96mratsim: not quite
17:46:07dom96I often wonder whether creating a webasm backend is worth the trouble
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17:58:47FromGitter<zetashift> Is it that much of a trouble? I thought Nim's C backend would take care of most of it
17:59:03FromGitter<zetashift> iirc Rust piggybacks a lot on LLVM's wasm target
18:04:28FromGitter<xomachine> Hi there! I wonder if there is a proper way to init Nim runtime for dynamic library? While rewriting my project to Nim I've encountered a problem that Nim runtime overwrites a part of callers memory (the caller - windows application under wine and the library is winelib [steam_api.dll.so]). This problem persists only in 64-bit code. ⏎ ⏎ The best way for me would be to alloc the memory region by external code and
18:04:28FromGitter... give it to runtime (like a sandbox where Nims GC can play without interference with environment). I've already tried -d:useNimRtl, but it does not compile with macros and I have a lot of compile time code. (https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/issues/6855)
18:13:00FromGitter<xomachine> Here is a way I use to initialize the runtime now: https://github.com/xomachine/SteamForwarder/blob/master/steam_api.nim#L26
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18:22:28dom96xomachine: hrm, I'm not much help in this area. Might be worth asking on the Nim Forum or just reporting an issue for this (it's possible that -d:useNimRtl not working with macros is an issue itself)
18:23:31dom96Your project is really cool btw :D
18:25:11Yardanicodom96, he also wrote an article on habrahabr about his project if you didn't know that yet :)
18:25:50dom96Damn, is there some sort of Russian Nim community that I'm not aware of? :)
18:27:21Yardanicodom96, not really :P
18:28:31dom96I really wish I found the prospect of presenting less daunting
18:28:51Yardanicodom96, this is the article (well I know you don't know russian, but just for info) - https://habrahabr.ru/post/349388/
18:29:03Yardanicoit received quite a lot of views
18:29:06Yardanico(10k)
18:29:11dom96ooh
18:29:45dom96is habrhabr sorta like Reddit/HN?
18:29:51Yardanicodom96, yes
18:30:07Yardanicobut you don't need to make your articles on medium and link them on HN for example
18:30:22Yardanicohabrahabr combines that - you write articles on habrahabr, and others can read them :)
18:30:54YardanicoWell there's something like reddit equivalent - Pikabu
18:31:08dom96Perhaps one of you could translate this post to English and we could post it to nim-lang.org?
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18:40:43FromGitter<xomachine> @dom96 thanks! =) ⏎ ⏎ I'd like to learn more about how GC works. It is pretty strange that the library crashes with default gc, does not work but calling DllMain a few times with gc:stack and works with both of gc:v2 and gc:none.
18:52:25dom96that is strange
18:52:30dom96have you tried --gc:refc and --gc:boehm?
18:52:51Yardanicowell gc:v2 should replace default gc *somewhere in the future time*
18:53:01Yardanicos/future time/time
18:57:12dom96I'm not so sure
18:57:38dom96but if the default gc doesn't work but others do then there is surely an issue in the default gc
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19:16:29Temperance[m]so... let me see if I get this correctly
19:16:37Temperance[m]var are regular mutable variables
19:16:47Temperance[m]let is what in other languages would be const
19:16:51Temperance[m]and const is done at compile time?
19:17:04FromGitter<xomachine> refc crashes like the default one (on growObj), boehm crashes somewhere in NimMain (it is hard to collect stack traces when the program tries to handle crash itself)
19:19:30FromGitter<xomachine> @Temperance[m] well that's correct. But I would not say that `let` equals to const. It just like a var but compiler ensures that you won't change it in explicit way.
19:22:48Temperance[m]well, just line const in c++, right?
19:22:59Temperance[m]I mean, you don't set const values at compile time in C++
19:23:01Temperance[m]or c
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19:29:45Temperance[m]Anyway, I'm loving Nim's compile time powers.
19:30:02Temperance[m]It's embarrasing that C doesn't have stuff like this out of the box.
19:30:04FromGitter<xomachine> Not sure about the `const` representation in C, but in C code produced by Nim it is just a regular variable
19:31:14Temperance[m]const in C, as much as I know, just indicates that the variable will not be modified once set up. For example, a const declaration inside a for loop can take parameters generated on runtime.
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19:34:19FromGitter<xomachine> Well, in Nim you can change the `let` value by manipulation with unsafeAddr or from emitted C code.
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19:36:37Temperance[m]just as you can in C :P
19:36:43Temperance[m]with consts I mean.
19:39:37Temperance[m]It probably wouldn't hurt to actually make let be consts in C, I mean, it does seem like the same thing so far.
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20:55:42dom96I wonder if this is also written in Nim: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgEZ-xqFXLo
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21:00:08dom96It's a pretty good trailer
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21:19:45Temperance[m]c: uint8 = 256 # Compile time error
21:19:55Temperance[m]What happens if someone wants to rely on overflows?
21:31:04Temperance[m]also, what does the asterisk in this line means?
21:31:05Temperance[m]type
21:31:05Temperance[m]MyInteger* = int
21:37:00Temperance[m]I understand the asterisk next to a proc name means the function will get exported for module imports... right? but what does it mean here? Does it mean that the type MyInteger will get exported too?=
21:37:01Temperance[m]I understand the asterisk next to a proc name means the function will get exported for module imports... right? but what does it mean here? Does it mean that the type MyInteger will get exported too?
21:37:17dom96yes
21:38:25Temperance[m]oh, thanks, I was getting my hear over it, the tutorial I'm following does this kind of stuff without explaining
21:38:55Temperance[m]and, about my previous question, anyone?
21:39:55Temperance[m]I mean I could do newvalue%255, but wouldn't that be like, slower?
21:41:28dom96isn't overflow behaviour undefined?
21:41:35dom96or at least dangerous in some way?
21:42:14Temperance[m]I'm not saying it isn't. I'm asking what would I do If I wanted to go "expert mode" and knew the consequences.
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21:59:31dom96Temperance[m]: Not sure, I guess there is a way to disable these checks. You could also probably just emit C code using the {.emit.} pragma
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22:04:31FromGitter<xomachine> @dom96 ⏎ ⏎ relative to that post on habrahabr about the SteamForwarder. It actually doesn't require Russian speaker to translate. Google translator performs the translation very well. I hardly can do it better (except a few obvious fragments). But the thing it really needs is a proofreading made by native or advanced English speaker.
22:05:30dom96xomachine: well, first question is: do you want to post it on nim-lang.org? :)
22:05:59dom96I guess the answer is yes, but just want to confirm
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22:06:08FromGitter<mratsim> @dom96 @Temperance[m]: uint have defined overflow behaviour: it rolls over
22:06:25dom96If so, please make a PR on the website repo (just create a .md file in the appropriate place, you should be able to see the other posts and use them as an example)
22:06:42dom96Then we can have someone proofread it
22:11:10FromGitter<xomachine> I'm not sure that whole post will be interesting for Nim community. At least a half of the post is about wine, steam and the problem investigation. Only the second half is related to Nim.
22:13:08dom96There is a big overlap between people interested in Nim, wine and steam :)
22:13:22dom96plus, it's not for Nim devs, it's for developers in general
22:14:41FromGitter<xomachine> ok, then I'll start working on it
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22:58:53Temperance[m]what are the ide options for nim?
22:59:06Temperance[m]I'm using visual studio code, but I would love to see if there's something better.
22:59:28dom96https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/wiki/Editor-Support
23:08:22shashlickI was using vscode for a while, loved it but it's too much of a memory hog for my VM so I've moved to Vim
23:11:12FromGitter<krux02> Temperance[m]: I use emacs, but it not great. I think with VS code you are pretty much on the good end of the IDE support.
23:13:00shashlickhere's my list of vim plugins - ale, fzf, fzf.vim, numbers, nvim-nim, vim-airline, vim-airline-themes, vim-autoclose, vim-better-whitespace, vim-buftabline, vim-fugitive, vim-gitgutter, vim-multiple-cursors, vim-startify, vim-unimpaired
23:13:07shashlickale supports nim for syntax checking
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23:21:06Temperance[m]Never got to like vim, so It seems I'll have to stick with vscode
23:21:09FromGitter<krux02> systax checking workin in emacs, too.
23:21:20FromGitter<krux02> but sometimes it just grows too big in memory and I need to kill it.
23:21:27FromGitter<krux02> so the support is not great.
23:21:44FromGitter<krux02> yea vim is really crufty
23:23:50FromGitter<krux02> and yes probably you are good with vscode