<< 11-05-2015 >>
00:00:03Senketsuwould expect pure lib be okay for threads
00:00:22Senketsui think i might give up on threading & Nim at all
00:00:23Senketsulol
00:04:10dom96Senketsu: I think you should report that as a bug.
00:04:25dom96Senketsu: You should be able to use httpclient in different threads.
00:04:55Senketsumy seconds attempt at meaningfull threading and second bug
00:04:56Senketsuhaha
00:04:57Senketsuokay
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00:26:51federico3Nim is less mature than it looks
00:27:45Senketsubut that makes it more lovely ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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00:47:45reactormonkSenketsu, pedobear incoming?
00:47:59Senketsuwhat ?
00:48:38Senketsuoooh
00:48:41Senketsuhahaha
00:48:53reactormonkyou using emacs?
00:49:02Senketsuno, just aporia
00:50:48reactormonkWith nimsuggest?
00:53:11Senketsunope, tho did tried it when newsuggest was in devel but i was still very new to nim so it was actually more comfy for me to look into the docs than try find a proc im that
00:53:29Senketsuim kinda used into looking up docs all the time from C
00:53:54reactormonkkk. I'm currently banging my head against a wall trying to integrate nimsuggest into emacs
00:54:17Senketsuhah
00:55:24reactormonkI get some WTF stuff, like 1. works fine, second call doesn't anymore.
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14:49:09kokozedmanhey guys, I'm trying to c2nim libprotobuf-c. it uses a lot of name__something (double underscore) and Nim is not happy about it. Is there a way to mangle these automatically without having to go thru them one by one? (hundreds of them inside)
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15:18:58dom96kokozedman: perhaps you could use this http://nim-lang.org/docs/c2nim.html#preprocessor-support-mangle-directive
15:19:51kokozedmanthanks dom96, I didn't know #mangle supported patterns
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15:59:46gokrkokozedman: Check my article on wrapping, I think there was some hints around mangling in it.
16:00:10gokrhttp://goran.krampe.se/2014/10/16/nim-wrapping-c/
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19:05:50cviHi
19:06:23cvianyone have time/patience for a newbie question(s)?
19:06:56cvicant figure out how to import properly. Tied to use nimble to install nimgame and then use it
19:07:30cvionly two rows: 'import nimgame' and 'newEngine().start()'
19:07:56cvibut it complains with: game1.nim(1, 8) Error: cannot open 'nimgame'
19:08:08cviWhat have i missed? :-)
19:08:18cvi*tried
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19:16:07cviok, found the answer
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19:17:35transfuturistdid I release my nightmarish freetype wrapper yet?
19:18:30transfuturistapparently not
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19:24:20transfuturisthttps://github.com/transfuturist/freetype
19:24:27transfuturistnobody use it.
19:26:42notfowlLol
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20:15:40flaviuIs #2515 blocked on anything?
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20:34:57stefantalpalaruHi. Is there a way to write a generic converter that will allow for the implicit conversion of a literal nil? This doesn't work, in the sense that it's not picked up and the nil still triggers a type mismatch: "converter toFoo[T](n: pointer): ref Foo[T] = result = cast[ref Foo[T]](n)". How is a literal nil implicitly converted to a pointer and how can I emulate that?
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21:45:00Jehan_stefantalpalaru: You can't. Internally, nil has its own type, and there's a fair amount of type inference magic in the compiler to make it conform to all types that can be nil.
21:45:27Jehan_Well, I'm not actually sure that you literally cannot – Nim has surprised me more than once – but I don't see an easy way to do it.
21:45:41stefantalpalaruOK. thanks
21:45:50Jehan_I'm not sure why it's necessary, though – nil does automatically match reference types?
21:46:40Jehan_Actually, now that I think about it, it may be possible to hack something with typedesc[nil]. Not sure, though.
21:49:29stefantalpalarureferences can be cast to and from pointers
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21:50:07stefantalpalaruwhat I want is to pass nil as a proc parameter without that ugly in-place casting
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22:20:49Jehan_You should be able to pass nil as a proc parameter to any ref or ptr type?
22:21:17Jehan_… of any ...
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22:55:54onionhammervarriount we ready to release yet? :)
23:01:57BlaXpiritflaviu, blocked on nobody caring anymore
23:02:50BlaXpiriti asked Arаq for final comments, to no avail
23:03:18flaviuWell, nobody caring anymore is almost a good thing. It's probably in a stable-enough state if no one can find anything to complain about.
23:04:14flaviuLet's ping Araq tomorrow and get it merged.
23:04:28BlaXpiriteven i'm not really satisfied with it
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23:06:32BlaXpiriti need to do some things before merging, too
23:10:47flaviuOk, that's fine.
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23:21:08Varriountonionhammer: I think so.
23:24:32filwitJehan_: our discussion on constructors the other day (namely that you feel the main/only points in favor of it are purely aesthetic) made me think my arguments for the feature weren't clearly illustrated. So I made a short gist which shows a couple of benefits of the idea (and are not based on aesthetics): https://gist.github.com/PhilipWitte/0ca58b9655a6f3fd8ff0
23:25:58Jehan_filwit: Eh, I think that the raw object constructors shouldn't be imported. I don't see what that has to do with constructors in general.
23:26:06Jehan_That's just about basic information hiding.
23:26:45Jehan_s/imported/exported
23:27:10filwitwell when you compare the solution "hide the obj constructor" vs "make obj constructors more useful" i still think the latter wins
23:27:25ldleworkplease don't throw out aesthetics
23:27:53Jehan_ldlework: I don't, but aesthetics can be subjective.
23:28:09Jehan_For example, I find C++/Java/C# constructors ugly as hell.
23:28:10BlaXpiritnice to see this gain more attention
23:28:22BlaXpiritinability to hide object constructor is atrocious
23:28:24filwitobj constructors are sexy and, more important, they're "universally available".. mean a programmer can expect to use that syntax (in some form) to construct any type
23:28:37filwitmeaning**
23:29:29Jehan_filwit: Object constructors should only be used internally in a module IMO.
23:30:35BlaXpirityou maybe misunderstood
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23:31:14BlaXpiritmaybe filwit means that you should be able to define a function which replaces object constructor
23:31:29Jehan_BlaXpirit: You can already do that.
23:31:37filwitJehan_: can you explain your reasoning a bit more? I really do respect your opinions (i find you to be generally object and knowledgeable).. but I don't see how your solution is better than mine except that maybe it has a bit less 'magic' going on.. Simply restricting the use of object constructors doesn't sound objectively better than improving their design.. especially when this pattern closely matches that of destructors
23:32:06filwitgenerally objective**
23:32:11filwitgod i can't type today
23:32:26dtscodeWhat do you mean today?
23:32:28Jehan_filwit: Basically, what you're proposing is two different ways of writing a function. One syntax is called a constructor, another a proc, but they do the same thing. Well, actually, constructors do only a subset of what procs can do.
23:32:43filwitdtscode: shutup, lol.. you're right tho..
23:33:01Jehan_And, eh, typos are an underappreciated art form. :)
23:33:11dtscodeNot in ##c.
23:33:16dtscodeThey are banning material.
23:33:30Jehan_But there's simply nothing that a constructor can do that that a proc can't.
23:33:58filwitwell no, you could still invoke a constructor explicitly, and it would be no less restricted than a normal proc.. the only thing it does is get invoked implicitly by the object constructor (and an proc that uses that, like 'new')
23:34:04BlaXpiritproc can't be named the same as a type :|
23:34:17Jehan_Constructors in C++ are simply a way to package memory allocation with object instantiation.
23:35:01Jehan_BlaXpirit: I see this as an advantage, more or less.
23:35:07Jehan_Again, aesthetics.
23:35:28BlaXpirit[:28:21] <BlaXpirit> inability to hide object constructor is atrocious
23:35:37BlaXpiritwanna follow that up with: the rest is details
23:35:48Jehan_BlaXpirit: Yup. I would make object constructors non-exportable.
23:36:02Jehan_That should solve the problem.
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23:36:31ldleworkheh
23:36:44Jehan_The way objects are constructed internally is an implementation detail that should not be exposed through the API.
23:38:13filwitproper constructors are important to catch constructions errors are compile-time (ensuring the a proper constructor proc is called).. my solution basically just makes Object Constructors useful instead of the alternative: locking them from being used outside a module (either for all types, or select ones).. I think the latter solution is a) less aesthetically appealing, and b) more confusing, since sometimes you can use constructors
23:38:13filwitsyntax, but other times you cant.. it also may effect generic code more than my solution would, since you not only need to know the params but also a unique name of the constructor
23:38:53ldlework"X shouldn't be allowed because no one will ever need X, except for all those times you really do need X"
23:38:55Jehan_filwit: What construction errors are called at compile time by calling a constructor that calling a proc doesn't catch?
23:39:35Jehan_s/called/caught/
23:39:47filwitJehan_: my gist illustrates this
23:40:10Jehan_No, your gist illustrates why exporting internal object constructors is a bad idea.
23:40:46filwitcan you give more reason to your assertions when you make them? just stating your opinion doesn't help me understand you reasoning
23:41:17Jehan_filwit: Instantiating objects frequently requires additional logic aside from just assigning values to instance variables.
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23:41:51Jehan_Exporting object constructors (the current ones, not the ones that you propose) allows you to bypass this logic or even leave instance variables uninitialized.
23:42:04filwityes, but that's not what you just asked about, and my solution addresses that too
23:42:08Jehan_Worse, they expose implementation details.
23:42:28Jehan_My solution is much simpler: DOn't export them, write a proc that creates the object.
23:42:36Jehan_There, done, no language extension needed.
23:43:15filwityes but i just argued that it's also more confusing to have obj construction work sometimes and not others.. plus generic code has to know the name of the proper constructor to call
23:43:28Jehan_The proc is internal to the module and exports a clean, strict interface that guarantees proper initalization.
23:44:02Jehan_proc makeMeAnObject*[T](…) works for generics, too.
23:44:10filwitwhich is exactly why my solution does too, only it keeps the sexy syntax, and makes it so obj constructors can still be expected as a syntax pattern for every type in Nim
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23:45:17Jehan_The rule for object construction under my proposal is simple: Only use them for types defined within the module. There's nothing confusing about that.
23:45:21filwit'makeMeAnObject' may be considered idiomatic, but that doesn't mean everyone will follow it.. people will have 'initMeAnObject' often and your generics break, unlike if you just know the name of the type an can always use it (with a given set of params)
23:46:01Jehan_filwit: That was a made-up name. I propose to name procs in ways that make their purpose clear in general.
23:46:53filwitJehan_: i acknowledge you solution addresses the problem and would probably be easier to implement, but I don't think it's better. I think if you quantify the benefits of your solution and mine, mine has more significant points in it's favor.
23:47:48Jehan_Then quantify them.
23:47:57Jehan_In any event, you'll have to convince Araq, not me.
23:48:28ldleworkfilwit: is Jehan_ recommending that object construction works in go where you use some silly named proc rathr than the type itself?
23:48:41Varriountonionhammer: Merging in code now. I should have it done in a couple hours (I have to take a break midway, to get chores done)
23:49:04filwitldlework: yes, essentially (only you can still use T() within it's module)
23:49:15ldleworknooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
23:50:20filwitJehan_: i think a pros/cons list between the two approaches is in order.. and I'm aware we need Araq on board.. i was just hoping to either win you over as well, or at least be convinced or your reasoning.
23:50:57Jehan_filwit: Unlike you, I have a totally different background in languages.
23:50:58filwitgod i really can't type today..
23:51:31Jehan_I come from Eiffel, ML dialects, and a number of other languages that aren't C++/C#/Java.
23:51:55Jehan_The type of constructors you want is really pretty unique to the C++ family of languages.
23:52:09Jehan_Which I'm not particularly fond of (okay, C# is decent).
23:52:56Jehan_I mean, the whole "overloading in order to disambiguate constructors" misfeature alone is enough to discredit them.
23:53:03filwiti see, that explains your apprehension a bit. And for what it's worth, I'm not a huge fan of C/C++ or C# in many ways (C# is nice in many ways, but I don't like C's syntax at any rate)
23:53:08Jehan_This is why, if at all, I prefer named constructors.
23:53:39Jehan_Even so, constructors tend to primarily occur in languages that do not have a module system separate from classes.
23:54:03Jehan_C++ (at least pre-namespaces), Java, Eiffel, Smalltalk.
23:54:38Jehan_It's why they are virtually unknown in languages that DO have a separate module system and don't borrow wholesale from C++ (e.g. Ada and the ML family of languages).
23:55:07Jehan_Oh, Haskell, too, of course.
23:55:35filwitI see.. But within context (Nim) I think they have good argument. I don't think it makes Nim any more "C-like" by any means.
23:55:40Jehan_Scala has constructors, but discourages their use outside of the companion object of a class.
23:59:50Jehan_filwit: My problem is that they make Nim more C-like. I think they are an unnecessary construct, and even if not, they are clearly inferior to named constructors.