| 00:00:18 | Demos | well I really enjoy nimrod |
| 00:00:32 | BitPuffin | it is similar in many ways and is not lazy and it allows side effects |
| 00:03:24 | OrionPK | nimrod would be awesome if it had better libraries |
| 00:03:29 | OrionPK | better/more |
| 00:03:39 | OrionPK | and visual studio support *cough*demos |
| 00:03:55 | OrionPK | sorry. *more* awesome |
| 00:03:55 | OrionPK | ;) |
| 00:03:56 | Demos | hey! I am working on it |
| 00:04:03 | OrionPK | ;D |
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| 00:04:22 | OrionPK | I know - just letting u know there's interest from a vocal minority :P |
| 00:04:28 | Demos | pull the repo to test out the improved highlighting (all in c# this time) |
| 00:04:41 | BitPuffin | OrionPK: and a better type system :P |
| 00:05:01 | Demos | I also fixed build support in my personal project, but I have to roll the changes into the project gen |
| 00:05:04 | BitPuffin | or I guess one with less bugs once you step out of C territory |
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| 00:05:24 | Demos | static[T] support, the other parts of the type system work OK |
| 00:05:37 | BitPuffin | yeah |
| 00:05:52 | BitPuffin | but static[T] might get removed |
| 00:05:52 | OrionPK | demos nice :D |
| 00:06:02 | OrionPK | I'll check it out later tonight if i can |
| 00:06:04 | BitPuffin | andreas doesn't seem so sure aboout them |
| 00:06:08 | OrionPK | Im on on my mac right now |
| 00:06:16 | OrionPK | so you dont need libnimrod anymore? |
| 00:06:27 | Demos | yup! |
| 00:07:55 | OrionPK | very cool |
| 00:08:52 | BitPuffin | you use visual studio on mac? wtf |
| 00:09:07 | OrionPK | Demos you should add support for tmpl highlighting, if that's possible ;) |
| 00:09:14 | OrionPK | BitPuffin where did I say that? |
| 00:09:45 | Demos | what do you mean tmpl hightlighting? |
| 00:10:13 | BitPuffin | Demos: recognizing that a template can be used kind of like a keyword I guess |
| 00:10:23 | BitPuffin | OrionPK: everywhere |
| 00:10:24 | OrionPK | Demos https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/417554/simple_site.png |
| 00:11:11 | OrionPK | https://github.com/onionhammer/nim-templates |
| 00:12:06 | Demos | oh like highlighting a different language inside the template? |
| 00:12:31 | OrionPK | yeah |
| 00:12:43 | OrionPK | fairly easy to do in sublimetext |
| 00:12:55 | Demos | well is there a c# library that provides hightlighting for other languages? |
| 00:13:04 | OrionPK | idk |
| 00:13:43 | flaviu | Demos: IronPython and Pygments? |
| 00:13:49 | Demos | NOOOOOO |
| 00:13:52 | Demos | NOOOOPE |
| 00:14:00 | reactormonk | Demos, and kinda hard in emacs ^^ |
| 00:14:01 | Demos | colorcode looks OK |
| 00:14:05 | EXetoC | doesn't c# have everything and then some? |
| 00:16:26 | OrionPK | but yeah, I use those templates all over |
| 00:16:43 | OrionPK | because they're nice for web programming and pretty much all i've done w/ nimrod to date are web apps heh |
| 00:17:01 | Demos | hm, actually even better would be activateing all the Visual Studio features for a given language in the quotes |
| 00:17:06 | Demos | that would be BAD ASS |
| 00:17:13 | OrionPK | yeah |
| 00:17:14 | OrionPK | I know |
| 00:17:30 | flaviu | And then you wouldn't have to worry about highlighting |
| 00:19:21 | Demos | Anyways this comes later, once everything else if figured out |
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| 00:20:28 | OrionPK | aye |
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| 01:02:26 | Varriount | *sigh* if only I could have nimrod plugins in sublime text |
| 01:02:39 | Varriount | Er, plugins written in nimrod. |
| 01:03:53 | flaviu | Varriount: Is there some way to draw hints in a different color from errors? |
| 01:05:07 | Varriount | flaviu: I believe that is up to the color scheme you've chosen. |
| 01:05:18 | Varriount | flaviu: I could be wrong thought. Let me check. |
| 01:06:03 | flaviu | You're right, although I'd think there are more error levels |
| 01:06:33 | Varriount | flaviu: Feel free to submit patches or pull requests. |
| 01:07:13 | Varriount | flaviu: Until the compiler-as-a-service feature becomes usable, I don't know of much that can be improved regarding the sublime text plugin for nimrod. |
| 01:07:21 | flaviu | Well, indentation |
| 01:07:53 | Varriount | Hm? Indentation for nimrod code should be set to 2 spaces by default. |
| 01:08:01 | flaviu | When I type `type<enter>`, it inserts `type\n`, when I want `type\n ` |
| 01:08:55 | Varriount | Er, could you explain that a bit? I don't think I understand correctly. |
| 01:09:04 | EXetoC | note the indent |
| 01:09:55 | flaviu | if spaces were periods, the last quote would be `type\n..` |
| 01:10:59 | Varriount | Ah, ok. |
| 01:11:38 | Varriount | flaviu: I don't know if sublime text can do that out-of-the-box. It might require something like what I did for comments. |
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| 02:04:09 | NimBot | Varriount/NimLime master 7af7019 Erik O'Leary [+0 ±1 -0]: Modified osx key commands |
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| 02:13:28 | flaviu | Varriount: It actually works! |
| 02:13:53 | Varriount | flaviu: Yes, however I don't think that's how you're supposed to do it. |
| 02:14:05 | Varriount | It seems that python does it through some sort of setting... |
| 02:14:15 | flaviu | I'm pretty sure that python is just special cased in sublime text |
| 02:15:11 | Varriount | Possibly... possibly not. |
| 02:17:13 | flaviu | Oh, its super simple |
| 02:17:37 | flaviu | Varriount: Check out Miscellaneous.tmPreferences |
| 02:18:52 | Varriount | Yeah, that's what I said.. |
| 02:19:44 | flaviu | Oh, I thought you were still looking for the setting |
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| 02:23:05 | Varriount | flaviu: What things need indenting? |
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| 02:24:56 | flaviu | proc, converter, template, macro, iterator, let, var, const, type, = object, = generic.*, =, = enum |
| 02:25:10 | flaviu | All the python control flow except with |
| 02:25:40 | flaviu | I can figure this out and send a pr, don't worry about it |
| 02:26:35 | Varriount | Oh, thanks! |
| 02:29:16 | Varriount | flaviu: One of the things I dislike most about sublime text is the general lack of documentation on the more... obscure features. |
| 02:30:23 | flaviu | Technically, it is somewhat documented: http://manual.macromates.com/en/appendix :P |
| 02:32:29 | flaviu | for my own refrence: = tuple, = ref .*, = ptr .*, = var .*, = distinct .*, :, = object .*, |
| 02:32:54 | Varriount | flaviu: Yes, but thats for a seperate text editor. |
| 02:33:28 | flaviu | I was sarcastically agreeing with you, I realize that |
| 02:34:39 | Varriount | Ah. ok. |
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| 02:47:02 | flaviu | Varriount: Ok, PR sent. |
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| 02:49:40 | Varriount | Eww. I'm looking at a protocol that's based on XML |
| 02:50:15 | flaviu | So... something that java uses? |
| 02:50:25 | Varriount | Probably. |
| 02:51:06 | Varriount | Someone contacted me a couple days ago, inquiring on a Collaborative editing plugin I made for sublime text (github.com/Varriount/Colliberation) |
| 02:51:42 | Varriount | They wanted to know if it could be made to support Gobby, a collaborative text editor/protocol. |
| 02:52:49 | Varriount | So I do some research, and find this: http://gobby.0x539.de/trac/wiki/Infinote/Protocol |
| 02:55:06 | flaviu | Colliberation isn't in the package manager? |
| 02:55:26 | Varriount | No - It's unfinished and unstable. |
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| 02:58:12 | Varriount | flaviu: The only good thing that can be said about it is that it is extremely latency insensitive, due to the differential synchronization mechanism that is used. The downside to this is increased memory usage. |
| 02:58:57 | Varriount | flaviu: It could probably be made to work with gobby - much of the plumbing would have to be torn out, but the framework is relatively modular. |
| 03:00:15 | flaviu | I just wanted to try it out, what exactly is unstable? |
| 03:00:43 | Varriount | flaviu: Everything. It should work for simple stuff though. |
| 03:01:13 | Varriount | flaviu: There's no serializer, so any documents made will be lost when the server stops. |
| 03:01:33 | Varriount | flaviu: Also, wait one moment, I was about to push an update which fixes a particularly nasty glitch. |
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| 03:04:26 | Varriount | flaviu: Ok, it's done. |
| 03:05:24 | Varriount | flaviu: Download the repo and place it in your packages directory. You can run start_server.py to start a server, and the sublime plugin should add a new drop down menu. |
| 03:05:35 | NimBot | Varriount/NimLime master 757214a Flaviu Tamas [+1 ±0 -0]: Create Miscellaneous.tmPreferences... 2 more lines |
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| 03:09:00 | Varriount | flaviu: I have a server running at 96.231.161.47 , default port |
| 03:20:52 | * | Varriount pokes flaviu |
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| 03:34:03 | flaviu | Varriount: Sorry, I had to do some stuff, back now |
| 03:34:07 | flaviu | I'll try joining |
| 03:34:39 | Varriount | Ok. |
| 03:35:54 | flaviu | All the options are greyed out, am I missing something? |
| 03:36:11 | Varriount | Hm, something must have broken then. Check the console |
| 03:36:31 | Varriount | You should see only two options, one being "Connect to server" |
| 03:36:42 | flaviu | Ah, I'm using python 3 |
| 03:36:50 | Varriount | -_- |
| 03:38:04 | Varriount | Unfortunately, I'm too lazy to re-invent the wheel. I use several different libraries, one of which is Twisted. |
| 03:38:19 | flaviu | I'm seeing if there's a way to use python 2 |
| 03:38:36 | Varriount | flaviu: You mean, with sublime text 3? |
| 03:38:58 | flaviu | Yes, I'm using sublime text 3, and python 3 |
| 03:40:41 | Varriount | flaviu: You can't, unfortunately. |
| 03:40:57 | flaviu | Yeah, I can. I'll get change the python symlink to python 2 |
| 03:42:58 | Varriount | flaviu: But doesn't sublime text use its own internal python binary. |
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| 03:49:04 | flaviu | Ok, I connected |
| 03:49:29 | flaviu | Varriount: Are you on the server? |
| 03:49:43 | Varriount | Yes. |
| 03:49:59 | Varriount | From the Collaboration menu, open the document 'test.nim' |
| 03:52:13 | flaviu | I think I crashed it |
| 03:52:41 | Varriount | Hm. Did you get an error in the console? |
| 03:52:55 | Varriount | The server didn't crash, so it's likely the plugin that borked. |
| 03:53:09 | flaviu | ./colliberation/protocol.py:437: UserWarning: Shadow (8274236992150300118) doesn't equal data (1673312814) shadow_hash, data.hash |
| 03:53:42 | flaviu | Also, "Connection lost ... Connection closed cleanly" |
| 03:53:57 | Varriount | Odd. |
| 03:54:23 | flaviu | I was pushing the plugin with selections and other stuff, that might be it |
| 03:54:57 | Varriount | Yeah. I guess I should have stated that "In theory" the mechanism is resistant to latency and desynchronization. |
| 03:56:08 | flaviu | Anyway, neat plugin. I don't have much use for it, but I can definity see times where it'd be good to have |
| 03:56:31 | Varriount | flaviu: I haven't really had a chance to test it with normal usage, because it's hard to automate the kind of tests a plugin like this requires. |
| 03:56:43 | Varriount | And I can't be in two places at once. :/ |
| 03:57:35 | flaviu | Varriount: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/130354/how-do-i-simulate-a-low-bandwidth-high-latency-environment |
| 03:57:44 | flaviu | Also, AutoHotKey is amazing |
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| 03:58:34 | Varriount | flaviu: Ah. |
| 03:59:33 | Varriount | flaviu: The reason I got so far (relatively speaking) on that project is because it was quite interesting and fun to develop. Unfortunately, I haven't really found a similar project/idea with nimrod, other than developing the compiler and standard library. |
| 04:00:03 | Varriount | I'm also one of those people who agonizes over design, which doesn't really help. |
| 04:01:38 | flaviu | Pop into sublime text, and see what I've spent the last hour on |
| 04:02:20 | Varriount | Huh? |
| 04:02:34 | flaviu | didn't it show up? |
| 04:03:24 | Varriount | flaviu: You need to re-open the document |
| 04:03:48 | Varriount | When you disconnect, any shared documents become detatched. |
| 04:04:05 | flaviu | Seems that it doesn't like pasting either |
| 04:04:20 | flaviu | https://gist.github.com/flaviut/42c677e95f6b8438ad93 |
| 04:05:18 | Varriount | A url parsing library? |
| 04:05:27 | flaviu | No, that pretty comment |
| 04:06:11 | Varriount | flaviu: Is it generated from some other source? |
| 04:06:46 | flaviu | Haha, no, its hand-made. |
| 04:07:26 | flaviu | That might have been worth taking an hour for though |
| 04:09:08 | Varriount | flaviu: Found out what broke. Apparently whatever was pasted caused the hash function output encoded in the packets to fail. |
| 04:09:24 | Varriount | It actually crashed the server. |
| 04:10:42 | Varriount | flaviu: I still don't get what you gist'd though. What is it? |
| 04:11:02 | flaviu | Its a comment explaining how the url is broken down |
| 04:11:13 | Varriount | A url for what? |
| 04:11:25 | flaviu | I dunno, just a generic http url |
| 04:14:12 | Varriount | flaviu: Anyway, I need to get to bed. Good night. |
| 04:14:16 | flaviu | Night |
| 04:14:29 | Varriount | I hope you didn't find my collaborative plugin too disappointing. |
| 04:15:34 | flaviu | Its neat, even if buggy. I just don't have a usecase for it, I don't collaboratively with others |
| 04:15:42 | flaviu | *use |
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| 05:35:48 | Skrylar | welp. vim is very useful for debugging nimrod |
| 05:36:42 | Skrylar | > record macro of copy/pasting proc line in to debugEcho(proc blah), undo changes, tell it to run macro on all proc lines |
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| 06:16:11 | NimBot | Araq/Nimrod devel 49ad6fc Araq [+0 ±3 -0]: fixes latest regression |
| 06:16:11 | NimBot | Araq/Nimrod devel c260b22 Araq [+0 ±1 -0]: Merge branch 'devel' of https://github.com/Araq/Nimrod into devel |
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| 13:48:27 | othello | hello, I'm new to Nimrod, but I'm really glad I came across this awesome language! |
| 13:48:57 | othello | I'd have a basic noob question regarding the IUP wrapper |
| 13:49:45 | othello | how do you call the iup.Open(argc: ptr cint, argv: ptr cstringArray) in Nimrod ? |
| 13:49:59 | othello | how to access argc and argv from within Nimrod |
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| 14:01:34 | Araq_ | othello: usually you can pass nil for these |
| 14:01:56 | Araq_ | the gtk2 wrapper has some code to access these from nimrod, I forgot how |
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| 14:03:18 | Araq_ | var cmdLine{.importc: "cmdLine".}: array[0..255, cstring] cmdCount{.importc: "cmdCount".}: cint |
| 14:04:14 | Araq_ | iup.Open(addr(cmdLine), addr(cmdCount)) |
| 14:05:39 | othello | Many thanks! |
| 14:06:06 | othello | actually nil worked, but surely Araq's solution's even better |
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| 14:45:00 | othello | nimrod can't find the dll for IUP: `could not load: iup(30|27|26|25|24).dll` |
| 14:45:20 | othello | I'm on windows, I have iup.dll v3.9.0 in my SysWOW64 folder |
| 14:45:32 | othello | maybe I should try to link to the static IUP lib? |
| 14:46:04 | othello | I've tried putting iup.dll in the same folder as the nimrod-compiled executable, but to no avail |
| 14:49:27 | Araq_ | put it in the same folder and rename it iup30.dll |
| 14:54:06 | othello | I'd tried it too but it didn't work |
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| 15:02:29 | Araq_ | maybe it's some 64 vs 32 bit issue |
| 15:03:02 | othello | sounds likely, i'm gonna try it now |
| 15:04:23 | othello | nope, still no luck |
| 15:09:36 | othello | ok, I've fixed it. I was using the 3.10 (latest) IUP version, but you need the 3.0 version exactly (and rename the dll iup30.dll) |
| 15:10:05 | othello | many thanks again for your help, it's incredible to get direct help from the language creator himself! |
| 15:10:59 | Araq_ | you're welcome ;-) |
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| 17:10:25 | lorxu | Hi guys |
| 17:11:05 | lorxu | There is a away to limit the type a generic accept? |
| 17:12:13 | def- | lorxu: you can list the allowed types explicitly or make a user defined type classe |
| 17:13:06 | lorxu | I dont find how to do it in the documentation |
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| 17:13:25 | def- | lorxu: [T: int|float] |
| 17:13:38 | lorxu | Thanks |
| 17:13:42 | def- | and the other one is here: http://nimrod-lang.org/manual.html#user-defined-type-classes |
| 17:13:59 | lorxu | Thanks |
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| 17:37:30 | dom96 | hi |
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| 18:06:07 | mwbrown | Is there a good explanation available for the difference between identifiers with and without an asterisk? |
| 18:06:28 | mwbrown | for instance, when using c2nim it suffixes everything with a * including functions and constants |
| 18:06:38 | mwbrown | but you don't necessarily need it when writing functions |
| 18:07:02 | dom96 | * means the function/type/var is exported |
| 18:07:10 | dom96 | i.e. public |
| 18:07:17 | mwbrown | ahhh, makes perfect sense |
| 18:07:33 | mwbrown | that's why none of my code has needed it, because I'm not importing the module anywhere |
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| 18:52:31 | dom96 | hi rektide |
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| 18:54:12 | rektide | hello dom96, hello #nimrod |
| 18:54:24 | dom96 | welcome to #nimrod! |
| 18:55:41 | rektide | it was great hearing that macros are getting put to use in the std lib to create async await. that's a great application, very handy to have. |
| 18:55:55 | rektide | i use https://github.com/jayphelps/sweet-async-await in js land which is similar-ish, although Promise based |
| 18:57:33 | dom96 | Yep. I love Nimrod's macros. We still have some things to sort out in regards to async await but you should be able to play around with it already. |
| 18:59:37 | dom96 | Nimrod's async is promise based too. |
| 19:00:01 | dom96 | But we call promises futures. |
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| 19:15:15 | def- | Hm, does anyone know how to get opengl/glut working? https://gist.github.com/def-/32bc787255e22a4068fb |
| 19:16:25 | def- | I just get segfaults for my opengl calls |
| 19:19:13 | dom96 | You need to call loadExtensions |
| 19:20:56 | def- | ah, thanks. i read that but thought I don't use any extensions, so I don't need it |
| 19:27:49 | def- | Hm, now only glEnd() throws an "invalid operation" |
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| 19:39:24 | flyx | def-: why are you writing legacy OpenGL? |
| 19:40:12 | flyx | neither GLUT nor immediate mode are state-of-the-art |
| 19:40:15 | flyx | just saying |
| 19:40:46 | flyx | but I don't exactly see why glEnd causes this error. unless the OpenGL wrapper does something funny |
| 19:41:57 | def- | flyx: just trying to port this to Nimrod: http://rosettacode.org/wiki/OpenGL#C |
| 19:43:01 | flyx | def-: can you give me a pointer where exactly the exception is thrown? |
| 19:43:37 | flyx | oh, forget it, I see the problem |
| 19:44:31 | flyx | the opengl wrapper wrapps *every* import and does automatic error checking |
| 19:45:02 | flyx | but it is an error to call glGetError insid glBegin() … glEnd() |
| 19:45:48 | flyx | so glVertex* and glColor* call glGetError() and that error propagates to glEnd |
| 19:46:19 | flyx | (only when glEnd is called, the error is available through glGetError) |
| 19:46:29 | flyx | so the call to glGetError itself causes the error |
| 19:47:04 | flyx | (this is a nice example of how quantum mechanics work) |
| 19:47:16 | flyx | anyway, this has to be fixed in the opengl binding |
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| 19:48:30 | flyx | let me try a quick and dirty fix |
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| 19:52:56 | def- | flyx: ok, thanks |
| 20:01:15 | flyx | def-: try using https://github.com/flyx/opengl |
| 20:01:44 | flyx | unfortunately, it segfaults here, so I cannot test your code |
| 20:01:45 | def- | flyx: works |
| 20:01:55 | def- | flyx: ah, call loadExtensions() |
| 20:01:57 | def- | I forgot that too |
| 20:02:24 | flyx | good, I'll create a PR then |
| 20:13:03 | Demos_ | there is a way to disable the error checking I think |
| 20:13:28 | def- | Demos_: yes, i did that for now with enableAutoGlErrorCheck |
| 20:13:54 | flyx | Demos_: yes, indeed there is. but error checking *must* be disabled unconditionally between glBegin … glEnd |
| 20:14:09 | Demos_ | for some video drivers you can use the KHR_DEBUG extension (core in 4.3 or 4.4 I think) |
| 20:14:17 | Demos_ | flyx, indeed |
| 20:16:24 | flyx | I didn't use the existing boolean for disabling it to preserve the state before glBegin. |
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| 20:44:59 | Araq | Varriount! |
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| 20:46:17 | Araq | hi Francisco welcome |
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| 21:27:12 | Araq | hu? transformers 3 without megan fox? |
| 21:27:59 | Araq | why would anyone watch this movie then?! |
| 21:31:42 | dom96 | meh, Megan Fox. |
| 21:33:36 | Araq | hey |
| 21:34:04 | * | Araq likes her |
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| 21:35:09 | Jehan_ | I have never understood the appeal of the franchise myself. |
| 21:35:10 | mwbrown | as long as you ignore the thumbs |
| 21:36:09 | mwbrown | Jehan_: sometimes you can enjoy a mindless explosionfest |
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| 21:36:37 | Jehan_ | mwbrown: My understanding is that it's more about nostalgia for a certain segment of the population. |
| 21:36:41 | Jehan_ | I might be wrong, though. |
| 21:36:51 | mwbrown | there is that |
| 21:36:57 | dom96 | mwbrown: oh my god that thumb |
| 21:37:22 | dom96 | My 'meh' just went to 'get her away from me' |
| 21:37:50 | Araq | I can't follow. what "thumb"? |
| 21:38:05 | mwbrown | http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.376933!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/article_970/alg-stump-thumb-jpg.jpg |
| 21:38:12 | mwbrown | Araq: that thumb |
| 21:38:36 | Araq | XD lol who cares about her thumbs |
| 21:38:47 | mwbrown | anonymous strangers on the internet |
| 21:38:53 | mwbrown | who else? |
| 21:41:18 | dom96 | If you're going to fantasize about an unattainable celebrity you may as well fantasize about one which doesn't have freaky thumbs. |
| 21:41:54 | Araq | this thumb is perfectly fine anyway |
| 21:41:56 | Jehan_ | That's freaky? |
| 21:42:07 | def- | Anyone know of a better way to write into the char-array?: http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Use_another_language_to_call_a_function#Nimrod |
| 21:42:17 | Jehan_ | Why does everybody on TV have to be a photoshopped supermodel? |
| 21:42:34 | Araq | Jehan_: the point of TV is to forget reality |
| 21:42:49 | Araq | that works better when people look unrealistic |
| 21:43:15 | Jehan_ | Umm, I'd argue both parts of that, but not really in the mood for arguing. :) |
| 21:43:58 | dom96 | In regards to the Transformers movies: they are absolutely idiotic IMO. |
| 21:45:17 | Jehan_ | def-: Hmm, not sure if slices work if you mix arrays and strings. |
| 21:46:13 | def- | Jehan_: first i tried to just assume data as a cstring and i also tried memCopy |
| 21:46:24 | Jehan_ | copyMem should work, but is unsafe. |
| 21:46:32 | def- | copyMem changed the pointer to something else |
| 21:46:42 | def- | so it didn't work, and i don't know why |
| 21:47:50 | Araq | don't addr a cstring with copyMem |
| 21:48:18 | def- | Araq: also didn't work for the char-array |
| 21:51:09 | Jehan_ | Did you use addr(text) or addr(text[0]) for the string? |
| 21:51:21 | def- | addr(text), ooooh |
| 21:52:19 | def- | hm, no, still don't get it to work |
| 21:53:00 | Jehan_ | Maybe I'll have time to give it another look tomorrow, bedtime for now. Night! |
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| 21:54:57 | Araq | Varriount|Mobile! |
| 21:58:36 | Varriount|Mobile | Araq! |
| 21:58:57 | Araq | I have a project for you |
| 21:59:09 | Araq | hot code swapping! |
| 21:59:20 | Varriount|Mobile | o_O |
| 21:59:38 | Varriount|Mobile | Sounds spicy. and complicated |
| 21:59:45 | Araq | come on, it's incredibly cool |
| 22:00:07 | Araq | and it only requires some C codegen hacking |
| 22:00:16 | Varriount|Mobile | Hm.. ok. |
| 22:01:12 | Araq | fortunately we already use dlsym/GetProcAddress for DLL loading |
| 22:01:49 | Araq | so not much needs to be done to implement it |
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| 22:11:03 | Varriount|Mobile | Araq: So what would hot-swapping entail? |
| 22:13:33 | Araq | the codegen should produce a C proc like loadLuaDLL(x: string (or cstring)) |
| 22:15:15 | Araq | then people can do: |
| 22:15:57 | Araq | proc reloadLuaDLL(x: string) {.importc: "loadLuaDLL", nodecl.} |
| 22:16:34 | Araq | reloadLuaDLL "foolua.dll" |
| 22:16:58 | Araq | and all the function pointers are updated |
| 22:19:05 | Varriount|Mobile | Um, but how are the function pointers updated? Are they stored as pointers to pointers or something? |
| 22:20:17 | Araq | no, as global varialbes |
| 22:20:38 | Varriount|Mobile | Ah. |
| 22:22:13 | Varriount|Mobile | Araq: But what happens if a dll is reloaded while the program is executing a subroutine belonging to the dll? |
| 22:22:46 | Araq | well it's not thread safe |
| 22:23:11 | Varriount|Mobile | I'm talking about a single thread. |
| 22:23:18 | Araq | but so be it, people can write their own locks around this call if required |
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| 22:23:55 | Araq | well there is not much that can go wrong when single threaded |
| 22:24:23 | Varriount|Mobile | If a Nimrod procedure passes a callback to a dll proc, and the dll is reloaded, what happens? |
| 22:25:23 | Varriount|Mobile | I mean, if the callback reloads the dll |
| 22:25:44 | Araq | well don't do that |
| 22:25:59 | Araq | the more interesting question is what happens with global state in general |
| 22:26:14 | Varriount|Mobile | that too |
| 22:26:17 | Araq | in particular with global variables coming from the DLL |
| 22:27:20 | Araq | we might need code that every access to a global goes through some handler proc. However, it depends on how the OS implements dynlib loading |
| 22:27:21 | Varriount|Mobile | IIRC, in windows, the dll is entirely unmapped from memory |
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| 22:27:58 | Araq | so for a start let's ignore all these problems and see what windows does :-) |
| 22:29:15 | Varriount|Mobile | Araq: So the codegen will generate an extra procedure which reloads the dll? |
| 22:29:38 | Varriount|Mobile | Will reloading be done automatically, or manually? |
| 22:29:55 | Araq | reloading will be done manually |
| 22:30:44 | Araq | think about the "quake console" as the primary use case |
| 22:31:16 | Araq | you're testing some game, damn! AI doesn't work |
| 22:31:30 | Araq | you press TAB and enter: reload ai |
| 22:31:48 | Araq | which ends up calling reloadAiDLL |
| 22:32:26 | Araq | note that the game state is kept in the main program or some other DLL |
| 22:32:43 | Araq | and so you can simply continue |
| 22:32:48 | tinAndi | i do not want to dissturb but reloading a dll in the same thread/process should not affect anything on windows? or i'am wrong' |
| 22:33:51 | Araq | tinAndi: we'll see but in the worst case we have to give the DLL a new filename |
| 22:34:04 | Araq | and then windows won't complain |
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| 22:39:52 | tinAndi | hmm, but then you basiclly have a different dll with a diff codseg 'and' a diff 'datasegment' (maybe I'am completly wrong) |
| 22:42:20 | Araq | yes, you have to be careful with your global state |
| 22:42:55 | Araq | but I think it'll work just fine in practice with a bit of planning |
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| 22:43:33 | Araq | also we can implement a "no crash" compile mode for these DLLs |
| 22:44:18 | Araq | that logs "attempt to read from nil" somewhere but does not die |
| 22:45:21 | Araq | this way you can debug&recompile&reload but keep the game state |
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