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00:03:30 | FromDiscord | <Robyn [She/Her]> ...huh |
00:03:37 | FromDiscord | <Robyn [She/Her]> and that worked? |
00:03:59 | FromDiscord | <Robyn [She/Her]> Couldn't someone just grab the generated code from the VM and analyse it as it's being executed? |
00:04:04 | FromDiscord | <Robyn [She/Her]> And RE it that way? |
00:06:07 | FromDiscord | <leorize> of course you can, someone did it\: https://github.com/neuroradiology/InsideReCaptcha |
00:06:07 | FromDiscord | <leorize> that repo is 11yrs old so google probably spiced things up by now |
00:09:14 | FromDiscord | <Robyn [She/Her]> Ahh |
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08:38:58 | FromDiscord | <alehander92> In reply to @Elegantbeef "Oh just remembered don't": Thank you, good note! |
08:39:06 | FromDiscord | <alehander92> I'll mention it to the team |
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15:12:06 | FromDiscord | <saemideluxe> I just tripped over this one again: I have an object with a field that has a default value set. When I do not initialize `result` inside a `proc` that returns this type (e.g. by using the object-constructur), the field will not be initialized with my defined default, but with the default of the type of the field (ie zero, nil, etc).↵Is there a reason for this behavior or is it a bug? A quick issue-search did not bring anything up. |
15:12:36 | FromDiscord | <saemideluxe> (edit) "I just tripped over this one again: I have an object with a field that has a default value set. When I do not initialize `result` inside a `proc` that returns this type (e.g. by using the object-constructur), the field will not be initialized with my defined default, but with the default of the type of the field (ie zero, nil, etc).↵Is there a reason for this behavior or is it a bug? A quick issue-search ... did" added |
15:24:53 | FromDiscord | <lainlaylie> object field default values are used only in these cases:↵> an object created with an object construction expression or the procedure default; a ref object created with an object construction expression or the procedure new; an array or a tuple with a subtype which has a default created with the procedure default |
15:25:37 | FromDiscord | <lainlaylie> so it's expected that your implicit `result` does not have the default values↵the feature that would prevent you from forgetting to initialize result was bullied out of existence: https://forum.nim-lang.org/t/12646 |
15:39:52 | FromDiscord | <meteoraxv> hi all↵hi, it's been a few years since ive used nim and did programming in general. im back to programming more because of school projects and maths stuff and i really liked my time with nim, but unfortunately it seems the AV still doesnt play nice with nim programs↵hello.exe quarantined by my AV (norton) because it contains Win64:Evo-gen[Trj] |
15:40:08 | FromDiscord | <meteoraxv> i kind of forgot what im supposed to do now |
15:40:38 | FromDiscord | <meteoraxv> (edit) "hi all↵hi, it's been" => "sent" | "few years since ive used nim and did programming in general. im back to programming more because of school projects and maths stuff and i really liked my time with nim, but unfortunately it seems the AV still doesnt play nice with nim programs↵hello.exe quarantined by my AV (norton) because it contains Win64:Evo-gen[Trj]" => "code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#pasty=AxKxKJKI" |
15:40:43 | FromDiscord | <meteoraxv> (edit) "https://play.nim-lang.org/#pasty=iTAHboNd" => "https://play.nim-lang.org/#pasty=LwEyWPuC" |
15:41:47 | FromDiscord | <lainlaylie> https://forum.nim-lang.org/t/12678↵https://forum.nim-lang.org/t/12669 |
15:44:08 | FromDiscord | <meteoraxv> In reply to @lainlaylie "https://forum.nim-lang.org/t/12678 https://forum.ni": yea i was thinking maybe it is a compiler issue. this other programming language i use called 'V', is also a not that well known language but my AV never destroys V programs. i think maybe it |
15:44:18 | FromDiscord | <meteoraxv> (edit) "it" => "it's because of the compiler" |
15:44:38 | FromDiscord | <meteoraxv> (edit) "destroys" => "quarantines" |
15:44:50 | FromDiscord | <meteoraxv> i should try changing the compiler, maybe |
15:45:01 | FromDiscord | <lainlaylie> the C compiler, right |
16:22:04 | FromDiscord | <saemideluxe> In reply to @lainlaylie "so it's expected that": Okay, TBH it totally sucks that this got removed from the RFC. For me this would have finally added confidence, that all variables are initialized correctly (as expected)... But seems like it is still available via experimental flag, will try that. |
16:22:20 | FromDiscord | <saemideluxe> @lainlaylie Thanks for your explanation. |
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17:01:29 | FromDiscord | <aintea> what do you people think about having a way to distinguish in place procedures, classic functions, functions that return a boolean, and template/macros ?↵Like in Crystal (for the functions, return type and in place stuff) and Rust (macros ending with !) |
17:21:49 | FromDiscord | <meteoraxv> In reply to @lainlaylie "the C compiler, right": actually i guess it's not a compiler issue because programs i compile in other languages also use gcc and dont have this quarantine issue |
17:22:38 | FromDiscord | <meteoraxv> funny enough if i compile a nim program in my dev folder (which is excluded from norton's real time protection), if i then scan that .exe with norton it reports no issues |
17:23:05 | FromDiscord | <meteoraxv> but as soon as i move that .exe from that folder to my desktop for instance, BOOM it gets quarantined |
17:24:16 | FromDiscord | <leorize> not distinguishing them is a feature, not a bug↵(@aintea) |
17:24:27 | FromDiscord | <aintea> oh the famous feature |
17:24:35 | FromDiscord | <aintea> I wish Nim was more extensible like rust |
17:24:54 | FromDiscord | <aintea> only being able to make macros body valid nim syntax is kinda limiting |
17:26:16 | FromDiscord | <leorize> for starters the fact that they all look the same means you can seamlessly use templates/macros to bind into what is "supposed" to be a function |
17:26:46 | FromDiscord | <aintea> I don't agree on that, you should be able to know what is and what isn't a macro, same for the function stuff |
17:27:27 | FromDiscord | <aintea> the boolean thing is kind of useless since most of the functions returning a boolean start with 'is' or 'has', but it would be good to take example on Crystal I think |
17:27:44 | FromDiscord | <leorize> if a generic function wants to get a field or call something from the generic parameter, you are not bound to implementing it as fields or functions |
17:27:52 | FromDiscord | <leorize> you can implement them as macros, templates, or regular fields |
17:29:45 | FromDiscord | <aintea> I'm not sure to understand |
17:30:10 | FromDiscord | <leorize> a lot of flexibility comes from not having to distinguishing them, something that is also employed in Lisp, a language that inspired Nim's macro system |
17:31:12 | FromDiscord | <aintea> could you give me an example of the `a lot of flexibility comes from not having to distinguishing them` ? |
17:36:48 | FromDiscord | <leorize> https://play.nim-lang.org/#pasty=lSCyKrWK |
17:36:57 | FromDiscord | <leorize> here's a simple example |
17:40:47 | FromDiscord | <leorize> it's something you learn to live with, because the alternative of processing token stream is not fun↵(@aintea) |
17:41:14 | FromDiscord | <aintea> I know it's not fun, but once it's done you have full power |
17:41:17 | FromDiscord | <solitudesf> In reply to @aintea "I don't agree on": why? |
17:41:36 | FromDiscord | <aintea> to better differentiate them without having to read doc / hover on them |
17:42:16 | FromDiscord | <solitudesf> what kind of great insight do you achieve if you're not read the docs or even hover? |
17:42:24 | FromDiscord | <solitudesf> (edit) "read" => "reading" |
17:44:37 | FromDiscord | <aintea> you don't achieve anything it's just faster and feels better to instantly know what is what |
17:45:49 | FromDiscord | <solitudesf> faster than what? why do you need to know that? what differnce does it make to you besides feeling good from pretend control? |
17:45:51 | FromDiscord | <leorize> so what good is there to know whether X is a macro or function or field? |
18:02:11 | FromDiscord | <aintea> It's a personal opinion on this one |
18:02:37 | FromDiscord | <aintea> but do you guys agree the one on the 'in place' and 'returns a boolean' is a good idea |
18:03:59 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> Right which is why we have words |
18:04:23 | FromDiscord | <Robyn [She/Her]> In reply to @aintea "but do you guys": Why would you need or want that? |
18:04:41 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> `sort` and `sorted` for instance |
18:04:44 | FromDiscord | <Robyn [She/Her]> `var` exists as a mutability modifier for parameters which works fine for in-place code |
18:04:51 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> `sort` sorts the list `sorted` returns a sorted list |
18:07:44 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> Really though the naming is generally from a sensible place. If you have two operations one returns a value and one returns a bool you do `doThing(arg)` and `tryDoThing(arg)` |
18:16:15 | FromDiscord | <lainlaylie> crystal is even less googlable than nim.. does "in place" refer to the ruby `!` suffix? |
18:16:24 | FromDiscord | <aintea> yes |
18:16:42 | FromDiscord | <aintea> In reply to @Elegantbeef "`sort` sorts the list": that's not really explicit, and I always mix up the two |
18:16:45 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> Yea crystal does the same silly thing |
18:16:48 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> `?` and `!` for values |
18:16:53 | FromDiscord | <aintea> Skill issue yes, but it's an issue nonetheless |
18:17:00 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> cause `isBleh?` makes sense |
18:17:07 | FromDiscord | <aintea> yessss |
18:17:37 | FromDiscord | <aintea> the most important is the in place thing |
18:18:04 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> In place doesn't overly matter unless both overloads take a mutable parameters as robyn pointedo ut |
18:18:10 | FromDiscord | <lainlaylie> but this would just be a convention, up to library authors (and yourself) to follow it right? |
18:19:38 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> It also makes parsing harder |
18:19:59 | FromDiscord | <aintea> In reply to @Elegantbeef "In place doesn't overly": how do you visually know |
18:20:17 | FromDiscord | <aintea> yo can't without hovering on them, or checking wether the parameters are declared as 'let' or 'var' |
18:20:27 | FromDiscord | <aintea> the `!` lets you know directly |
18:22:06 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> `a.doThing!` is a prefix but `a.doThing !` is an infix |
18:22:07 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> It's a postfix for the first\ |
18:22:07 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> Matrix bridge is falling down falling down falling down |
18:22:08 | FromDiscord | <aintea> In reply to @lainlaylie "but this would just": I can't define a func with both letters and symbols |
18:22:19 | FromDiscord | <lainlaylie> In reply to @aintea "the `!` lets you": except it doesn't when authors dont follow convention? or is the idea to disallow var parameters unless the proc name ends with !? |
18:22:57 | FromDiscord | <aintea> In reply to @lainlaylie "except it doesn't when": not the second one, Nim is about flexibility anyway, the first one would be good |
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18:23:08 | FromDiscord | <aintea> like a recommendation in the standard coding style |
18:23:31 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> Where do you even place the operator? |
18:23:54 | nimxdebian | hi i'm trying to make a simple gui app with nimx but when trying to run it it says error nimx/label not found |
18:24:24 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> Did you install the right version of nimx? |
18:24:28 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> I'd also say nimx is not overly usable |
18:25:26 | nimxdebian | yea nimble install nimx |
18:25:39 | nimxdebian | should have by default |
18:25:49 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> Well `nimx/label` is not a module |
18:26:49 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> You likely want `nimx/text_field` given it has `newLabel` |
18:27:01 | nimxdebian | i'm trying |
18:27:01 | nimxdebian | import nimx |
18:27:02 | nimxdebian | proc main() = |
18:27:02 | nimxdebian | let window = newWindow("Hello Nimx", 800, 600) |
18:27:03 | nimxdebian | let label = newLabel(window, "Welcome to Nimx!") |
18:27:03 | nimxdebian | runApplication() |
18:27:04 | nimxdebian | main() |
18:27:45 | nimxdebian | it can't find nimx at all |
18:28:04 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> IRC users will do everything but use a rich text client 😄 |
18:28:20 | nimxdebian | for a few lines of codes it's easiest to just paste it |
18:28:52 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> Except it loses indentation! 😛 |
18:30:03 | nimxdebian | any idea why this stupid simple thing doesn't work? |
18:30:13 | nimxdebian | i'm on debian stable |
18:30:22 | nimxdebian | but i used the normal install script on nim's homepage |
18:30:44 | nimxdebian | hello world works fine |
18:30:56 | FromDiscord | <lainlaylie> please send the actual error message from the compiler |
18:31:14 | nimxdebian | maybe i messed up my desktop since i switched from gnome to kde but didn't remove gnome |
18:31:36 | nimxdebian | Error: cannot open file: nimx |
18:31:43 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> Why would a DE change your Nim compiler? |
18:31:52 | nimxdebian | idk what else it could be |
18:31:57 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> There is no `nimx` module |
18:32:34 | nimxdebian | nimble install nimx |
18:32:50 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> There is no nimx module inside nimx |
18:34:02 | nimxdebian | ..? |
18:34:29 | nimxdebian | but i need import nimx? |
18:34:30 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> There is no `nimx.nim` |
18:34:43 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> You do not `import nimx` you import the modules you usue |
18:34:47 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> use\ |
18:34:49 | FromDiscord | <lainlaylie> https://github.com/yglukhov/nimx?tab=readme-ov-file#usage |
18:34:55 | FromDiscord | <lainlaylie> the example here |
18:34:57 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> https://github.com/yglukhov/nimx?tab=readme-ov-file#usage does not `import nimx` |
18:35:52 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> The hello world works cause you it did not attempt to invent code. This screams like you're attempting to use an LLM to do things instead of learning |
18:36:25 | FromDiscord | <lainlaylie> unrelated but↵> Nimx is tested only against the latest devel version of Nim compiler.↵this is the one true way to develop libraries |
18:36:46 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> Cannot tell if serious or not 😄 |
18:36:52 | FromDiscord | <lainlaylie> serious. |
18:37:12 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> I tend towards bleeding edge for my code, but it's not the most stable |
18:39:29 | FromDiscord | <aintea> In reply to @Elegantbeef "Where do you even": At the end |
18:39:40 | FromDiscord | <aintea> `sort!(stuff)` |
18:39:48 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> Ah so it's ambiguous for an infix operator that takes a tuple |
18:39:57 | FromDiscord | <aintea> Oh that's why |
18:39:59 | FromDiscord | <aintea> How sad |
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18:40:11 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> `a.doThing!(10, 20)` could be `a.doThing ! (10, 20)` |
18:40:17 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> Well it's not the only reason why it's not here |
18:40:27 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> It's just something you need to consider |
18:41:21 | FromDiscord | <aintea> I need to consider a lot of things |
18:42:04 | FromDiscord | <aintea> I would love another kind of macro where Nim doesn't even check if it's valid Nim, it just goes "you're on your own now" |
18:42:26 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> You can just use `static string` |
18:42:36 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> You get the same thing and it doesn't cause the parser to be fucking crazy |
18:45:19 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#pasty=deKabFiN |
18:45:57 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> `js` in nim would just be a `template js(s: static string): static string = s` |
18:46:03 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> Again this is why templates not being explicit are beneficial |
18:58:09 | FromDiscord | <lainlaylie> this is what std/pegs does ^-^ |
18:59:10 | FromDiscord | <lainlaylie> wait, it's not... |
18:59:48 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> strscans does use static strings and a macro that expands it into logic to capture |
19:23:22 | FromDiscord | <frusadev> I have a question... |
19:23:35 | FromDiscord | <frusadev> Why does nimsuggest crash so often ? |
19:24:56 | FromDiscord | <leorize> because it's the compiler |
19:24:57 | FromDiscord | <leorize> and the compiler is not really good with code that isn't finished |
19:25:26 | FromDiscord | <leorize> or weird AST |
19:25:36 | FromDiscord | <frusadev> I see... |
19:25:58 | FromDiscord | <frusadev> I've also noticed that most LSPs for nim depend on it... |
19:26:15 | FromDiscord | <frusadev> Does anyone know of any LSP that doesn't depend on nimsuggest ? |
19:26:39 | FromDiscord | <solitudesf> there isn't one |
19:26:46 | FromDiscord | <frusadev> hmmph |
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21:14:45 | FromDiscord | <fromiselectq0> sent a long message, see https://pasty.ee/TAXbwhLE |
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22:59:06 | FromDiscord | <demotomohiro> You need to install both gcc and Nim that produce the same kind of executable.↵Or if you are using Nim for 32bit x86 and gcc for 64bit x86, try `--cpu:amd64` option. |
23:13:32 | FromDiscord | <fromiselectq0> let me provide my nim version et al |
23:14:01 | FromDiscord | <that_dude.> How did you install nim? |
23:14:16 | FromDiscord | <fromiselectq0> In reply to @that_dude. "How did you install": choosenim on the website |
23:14:58 | FromDiscord | <that_dude.> In a terminal, what happens when you run `where.exe gcc`? |
23:15:19 | FromDiscord | <that_dude.> And you're using the windows powershell terminal right? |
23:16:28 | FromDiscord | <that_dude.> This is what it looks like for me https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/371759389889003532/1349521453850034186/XFrORr1M46.png?ex=67d3674b&is=67d215cb&hm=bbfdba2567deb8b27f9df9a9ad1de6b3e5938c03938756321b7675f0a1387172& |
23:19:05 | FromDiscord | <fromiselectq0> https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/371759389889003532/1349522110925766656/image.png?ex=67d367e8&is=67d21668&hm=a847914d1491e1d0d4a2510301fce3038fbc1a5973effa7156688ae3cd1c4e66& |
23:20:06 | FromDiscord | <that_dude.> So it looks like choosenim didn't install a more modern version of gcc for you |
23:20:23 | FromDiscord | <that_dude.> You should not be using the msys/mingw one |
23:21:03 | FromDiscord | <fromiselectq0> what version of GCC should i be using ? |
23:21:03 | FromDiscord | <fromiselectq0> gcc 14 ? |
23:22:49 | FromDiscord | <that_dude.> I take it back it looks like I'm also using 11 |
23:22:59 | FromDiscord | <that_dude.> So it looks like gcc is fine then |
23:23:04 | FromDiscord | <that_dude.> What happens when you compile? |
23:24:10 | FromDiscord | <fromiselectq0> https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/371759389889003532/1349523389450031115/image.png?ex=67d36918&is=67d21798&hm=965bcd7d1348a0c948f275341425fa88fe263bed0a04db0bd8e75e349b791b87& |
23:24:48 | FromDiscord | <that_dude.> You're not on 32 bit or smth like that right? |
23:25:25 | FromDiscord | <fromiselectq0> you mean windows ? i am on 64bit |
23:25:32 | FromDiscord | <fromiselectq0> does any still use 32 |
23:25:36 | FromDiscord | <that_dude.> Cool, are you using two different machines? |
23:25:49 | FromDiscord | <that_dude.> Just cus the terminals look different |
23:25:58 | FromDiscord | <fromiselectq0> primary home workstations |
23:26:09 | FromDiscord | <fromiselectq0> one is vscode, the other is windows terminal |
23:27:11 | FromDiscord | <that_dude.> In reply to @fromiselectq0 "": I'm assuming that this one is windows terminal, Can you try to compile on this one? |
23:27:27 | FromDiscord | <fromiselectq0> okay |
23:29:48 | FromDiscord | <fromiselectq0> https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/371759389889003532/1349524812686426162/image.png?ex=67d36a6c&is=67d218ec&hm=e349578536a1aff3740cddc8a208b9f7f73e4020c0b9e875ceb27f3523930ace& |
23:31:17 | FromDiscord | <that_dude.> What id you deleted the nimcache folder? |
23:31:17 | FromDiscord | <that_dude.> (edit) "id" => "if" |
23:31:39 | FromDiscord | <fromiselectq0> same output |
23:32:32 | FromDiscord | <fromiselectq0> whats the best way to remove `Nim` from my pc |
23:33:04 | FromDiscord | <fromiselectq0> i believe its gotten to the "fresh" install stage |
23:34:06 | FromDiscord | <that_dude.> I don't think there is a built in uninstall method. If you delete the nimcache and follow nim related paths found in your environment variables, you can see where everything is |
23:39:43 | FromDiscord | <fromiselectq0> removed Nim, |
23:39:54 | FromDiscord | <fromiselectq0> will try the manual install and see how that goes |
23:48:44 | FromDiscord | <fromiselectq0> @that_dude. @_araq its working now |
23:48:50 | FromDiscord | <that_dude.> Nice |
23:49:00 | FromDiscord | <fromiselectq0> deleted choosenim and .nimble etc |
23:49:08 | FromDiscord | <that_dude.> I bet it some windows antivirus things partially interupting the installation |
23:49:08 | FromDiscord | <fromiselectq0> and did the manual install |
23:49:26 | FromDiscord | <fromiselectq0> which was straight forward |
23:50:05 | FromDiscord | <fromiselectq0> In reply to @that_dude. "I bet it some": dont think so, i put an exception |
23:50:13 | FromDiscord | <fromiselectq0> (edit) "In reply to @that_dude. "I bet it some": dont think so, i put an exception ... " added "on the av" |
23:50:44 | FromDiscord | <that_dude.> I was working on testing it on one of my vms, and it killed the installer on me |
23:50:51 | FromDiscord | <that_dude.> So I'm guessing something similar happened to you |
23:52:15 | FromDiscord | <fromiselectq0> makes me wonder why the `choosenim` exists in the first place |
23:52:40 | FromDiscord | <that_dude.> It lets you install and switch between multiple nim versions (including nightly) from the comand line |
23:53:08 | FromDiscord | <that_dude.> I guess people really like that convenience |