<< 12-11-2017 >>
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00:04:47jhorwitzI would love to help get Nim to 1.0
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01:35:00jhorwitzHow's everyone doing
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01:57:36FromGitter<Varriount> jhorwitz: Currently reading papers on lock free structures
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02:03:15FromGitter<Varriount> jhorwitz: If you need help with the GraphQL stuff, don't be afraid to ask
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02:25:54Miguelngel[m]Hello, is there any rule or kind of mental heuristic to decide when to using the main identifier of a new type to define `object `or `ref object`? I feel that I'm spending too much time about thinking about using ref or not for new types, for function parameters, for return values, and reading around doesn't help a lot, I cannot find any pattern to it...
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04:43:28GitDisc<treeform> gangstacat, websocket module appear to have a bug with sending large amounts of data.
04:44:23gangstacattreeform, I didn't encounter that but report it if not already done?
04:44:39GitDisc<treeform> yeah going to report it now
04:44:43GitDisc<treeform> i should have done it before
04:44:47GitDisc<treeform> i have a patch as well
04:44:52gangstacatnice
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04:46:45GitDisc<treeform> hmm i changed too much grr
04:46:52GitDisc<treeform> I don't think it will get merged
04:47:05GitDisc<treeform> I'll file it as a bug for now I guess
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04:50:56GitDisc<treeform> https://github.com/niv/websocket.nim/issues/18
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04:56:00GitDisc<treeform> gangsacat, if your run into issues when sending big chunks of data, grab mine from here: https://github.com/treeform/websocket.nim
04:57:27GitDisc<treeform> I don't like it use of exceptions so I am remodeing some of the API, which might not be desirable for you though.
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05:27:15gangstacatthank you treeform
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06:23:55shashlickI don't see my post on the forum if I'm logged out - status = moderated?
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08:23:10FromGitter<dandevelo> Has anyone tried both Nim and Haxe? What was your experience like?
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09:41:29FromGitter<mratsim> @MigueIngel[m] the question is how do you want your object to behave on assignment, copy or taking a reference? Also are copies expensive?
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09:44:37FromGitter<mratsim> Also just think about your base types, everything else depends on that. You don't need to pass a value type by reference explicitly to modify it (use var) unless if it's to interface with C.
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10:29:41couven92GitDisc is the bridge between Discord and Gitter?
10:29:56FromGitter<Yardanico> yes
10:29:58FromGitter<Yardanico> no
10:30:09FromGitter<Yardanico> it was supposed to be a Gitter - IRC - Discord bridge
10:30:19FromGitter<Yardanico> but people decided to keep FromGitter bot running :)
10:30:25FromGitter<Yardanico> so it's only an IRC - Discord bridge
10:30:30couven92Ah, so where's our Discord server?
10:30:53FromGitter<Yardanico> https://discordapp.com/invite/ezDFDw2
10:30:58couven92possible to join that? should it maybe be posted on nim-lang.org?
10:31:40FromGitter<Yardanico> maybe
10:32:03couven92maybe afraid of trolls? :P
10:32:18FromGitter<Yardanico> well I can't post it on nim-lang.org, so :)
10:32:24couven92:)
10:34:04couven92I have been a **real** idiot, BTW! I managed to loose both my 2FA and my backup codes for Discord... So now, I am stuck with waiting for Discord to delete my account, and in the meantime I have to use my uni-email with a different nick :(
10:34:41GitDisc<fra006> So... up on Discord @fra006 is couven92 (for the next month or so...)
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11:53:10dom96Yardanico: You can create a PR...
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15:55:08shashlickCan someone help with my forum post?
15:55:08shashlickhttps://forum.nim-lang.org/t/3323
15:55:24GitDisc<treeform> i am getting 404 Not Found
15:57:22shashlickFor some reason, it's inaccessible and not listed unless I'm logged in. Is it because my account is in a moderated status?
15:57:41GitDisc<treeform> maybe you have a new account and it needs to be approved?
16:05:17federico3probably
16:07:17shashlickI created it a while back, guess I never posted so it's still in limbo. Any forum moderators here?
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16:36:21dom96All new users are in a "moderated" state on the forum
16:36:33dom96I fixed it
16:37:54GitDisc<treeform> i looked at and it I have no clue
16:39:37dom96I think you need to use importc not importcpp
16:45:13FromGitter<xomachine> Hello! I've just encountered following compilation error with the code (https://gist.github.com/xomachine/75f9ef4205119db113d132b9885179d6) ⏎ ⏎ ```code paste, see link``` [https://gitter.im/nim-lang/Nim?at=5a087a98505b630c05d36c76]
16:48:01dom96That's a nim bug
16:48:10dom96All internal errors are
16:48:14dom96You should report it on GitHub
16:48:16dom96as an issue
16:48:29dom96My guess as to the cause: your enums have the same name as your module
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16:51:55GitDisc<treeform> what is the best way to format integer with leading zeros, for some reason its nowhere in the docs?
16:53:21GitDisc<treeform> i guess I will use align?
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16:57:17FromGitter<xomachine> Hm, indeed, it is a module naming issue. Should I obtain a stack trace or something before reporting? If so, please, tell me how.
17:01:19dom96xomachine: shouldn't be necessary, just make sure to provide your code and explain how to reproduce it
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18:42:09cremI have a function FFF that returns ref string. raise FFF() doesn't compile with "only a "ref object" can be raise... ah! string must be not an object.
18:43:44cremindeed
18:45:00cremThere's still no nim formatter, is there? I remember Araq picking a name for it.
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18:51:12tyler569Is there any documentation on what functions nim does not provide in standalone mode and what their signatures should be? I am getting an error that the system module needs a 'nimIntToStr'.
19:00:39dom96Don't think so. But see nimkernel, it uses standalone mode.
19:02:15tyler569Right - and I am toying around with th idea of going further with that idea, but when I try to convert an in to string with '$' and write that out, it tell me I need the function I mentionned.
19:02:32tyler569I am fine with having to provide that, I just need to how what to provide and where
19:02:44tyler569need to know**
19:03:03dom96search for it in the system module and see its definition
19:03:15dom96that should hopefully be enough info
19:03:44tyler569It doesn't appear to be in the stdlib at all, I've searched on the main page and in the system module
19:05:56dom96https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=nimIntToStr&type=
19:07:05tyler569That's the one! thanks much
19:10:15jhorwitzIs there a Nim formatter in the same vein as RustFMT or GoFMT
19:11:17GitDisc<treeform> I need advice on how to structure my calendar/timestamp/timezone nimble package. Ideally one should just use the `import timestamps` and that should be enough for most people, but some time you need complex time stuff so you would emport `import calendars` to get all of the more complex functions, and yet still if you need timezones you should `import timezones` but that will add 6mb to your bina <message clipped>
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19:19:03federico3jhorwitz: https://github.com/FedericoCeratto/nimfmt
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19:22:19dom96treeform: import timezones/calendar
19:22:40GitDisc<treeform> i think it would be more like
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19:22:48GitDisc<treeform> import calendars/timezones
19:22:48dom96or import myawesometimepackagename/[calendar,timestamp,timezone]
19:23:36GitDisc<treeform> could i come up with a fancier name?
19:23:51dom96no, you have to use 'myawesometimepackagename'
19:24:05GitDisc<treeform> well right now i used calendars
19:24:08GitDisc<treeform> as its the base module
19:24:14*dom96 hopes the joke is obvious
19:24:21dom96Of course you can pick your own name
19:24:33dom96just make sure all your modules are in a 'yourpkgname' directory
19:24:47GitDisc<treeform> what name would you suggest?
19:24:48dom96and that your .nimble file is outside that directory
19:25:18*dom96 isn't good with names
19:25:37GitDisc<treeform> you and me both
19:27:54dom96That said, it's much easier with Nim because there aren't that many packages out there :)
19:28:14GitDisc<treeform> this is what I have so far: https://github.com/treeform/calendars
19:28:36dom96ok, cool
19:28:50GitDisc<treeform> i mostly spent time writing tests https://github.com/treeform/calendars/blob/master/tests/test_timezones.nim
19:30:06elroodaren't there like about 40 timezones in the world? how does one manage to blow that up to 6MB?
19:30:23GitDisc<treeform> DST changes
19:30:39GitDisc<treeform> and there is 424 timezones
19:30:50GitDisc<treeform> with stupid rules going back to 1800s
19:31:10GitDisc<treeform> and there are 424 timezones
19:31:43GitDisc<treeform> Marocco/Iran/Syria likes to change their timezones randmly through the year...
19:32:09GitDisc<treeform> some times 4 DST changes per year
19:32:43GitDisc<treeform> I though about depending on a compression lib, and compressing and decompressing timezones dst tables on the fly.
19:33:01federico3and timezones can even change with little warning
19:33:43GitDisc<treeform> My lib stores 167372 DST changes
19:34:59GitDisc<treeform> Here is my DST strcut: https://github.com/treeform/calendars/blob/master/calendars/timezones.nim#L10
19:35:06GitDisc<treeform> Ideas on how to pack it further?
19:40:24GitDisc<treeform> Hmm I think I will rename my lib to chrono short for Chronology.
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19:41:34federico3treeform: packing to save space on disk or something else?
19:41:51GitDisc<treeform> save space in binary
19:41:57FromGitter<superfunc> nim on the weekends makes me so happy, programming doesn't have to be terrible all the time :)
19:42:53federico3treeform why are you injecting tz data in the binary?
19:44:36GitDisc<treeform> because I don't like shipping it as random files next to the binary.
19:45:15federico3treeform that makes it very difficult to update timezone files. Most OSes already provide tz files
19:45:29GitDisc<treeform> yeah but all of them provide it differently
19:45:42GitDisc<treeform> And js does not at all.
19:45:58GitDisc<treeform> So lowest common dinominator is to provide the files.
19:46:16GitDisc<treeform> but in the future I could see making it use the OS tz stuff.
19:46:40federico3they could be used as a fallback mechanism - perhaps - and if there's a way to check for updates
19:48:43GitDisc<treeform> yeah it would be cool to have a compile switch to use os or ship your own
19:48:55GitDisc<treeform> if OS tz info is good, it should default to using it
19:49:27FromGitter<Varriount> Windows doesn't have timezone files
19:49:40GitDisc<treeform> i think it has a timezone api
19:49:48GitDisc<treeform> but not like linux
19:49:53FromGitter<Varriount> Yes
19:50:15GitDisc<treeform> https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/ms724421(v=vs.85).aspx
19:50:21GitDisc<treeform> This does not look fun to use!
19:50:44GitDisc<treeform> But it is part of Kernel32.lib, which means you don't have to go far.
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20:00:44dom96treeform: chrono is a cool name
20:01:06GitDisc<treeform> cool. I am glad another persons approves.
20:01:27GitDisc<treeform> Now I have to write docs and examples.
20:04:05GitDisc<treeform> I just leanred that there is no year 0, I need to account for that now.
20:04:27GitDisc<treeform> it was ... 2BC 1BC 1AD 2AD ...
20:05:16GitDisc<treeform> I am just thankfull 1AD does not have daylight savings time transitions.
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20:08:17GitDisc<treeform> Another confusing thing is that 24h time has 00:00 hour but 12h am/pm does not. Saying 00:00am is not correct and it should say 12:00am
20:08:33GitDisc<treeform> I found that strange.
20:08:38FromGitter<GULPF> @treeform: most datetime libs ignore that and use astronomical year numbering
20:08:40FromGitter<GULPF> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astronomical_year_numbering
20:09:31GitDisc<treeform> Oh really?
20:09:39GitDisc<treeform> But what would peope perfer?
20:11:18GitDisc<treeform> If Cleopatra died on August 12, 30 BC, thye would not be happy library said she died in August 12, 29 BCE...
20:12:39FromGitter<GULPF> well that can be handled by formatting, so that year 0 is displayed as year 1 BC
20:13:09GitDisc<treeform> yeah I was going to keep year 0 internally
20:13:17FromGitter<GULPF> not having a year 0 makes reasoning about time a lot harder imo. suddenly counting the year diff is no longer abs(year1 - year2)
20:13:26GitDisc<treeform> but I don't do so for days or months?
20:13:29GitDisc<treeform> maybe I should
20:14:05GitDisc<treeform> I do this odd dec before month computations and inc after
20:14:11GitDisc<treeform> I am not happy about
20:14:37GitDisc<treeform> I could do that for years too
20:14:47GitDisc<treeform> I don't know if I should keep the 0 or not keep it
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20:17:42FromGitter<GULPF> why are you implementing your own datetime type instead of using the one in the stdlib anyway? it would be very useful if your timezone definitions could be used with the stdlib
20:18:33FromGitter<GULPF> I've been working on a PR for supporting timezone definitions in the times module: https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/pull/6552
20:20:35FromGitter<GULPF> after that PR is merged, the only thing missing is for someone to use the tz database to generate timezone definitions in Nim, which is what your library does right?
20:20:43GitDisc<treeform> Yes.
20:20:58GitDisc<treeform> Well I don't use the OS tz database
20:21:07GitDisc<treeform> I ship my own 6mb tz database
20:21:19GitDisc<treeform> If you import the timezone module
20:21:28GitDisc<treeform> i pack it into the binary
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20:23:20GitDisc<treeform> At first I was going to use the times module, but then I decided not to.
20:23:36GitDisc<treeform> not sure if the desitions to not use the times module was rational though.
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20:24:24FromGitter<GULPF> well the times module was kind of a mess, that's why I've been trying to improve it :P
20:25:10GitDisc<treeform> I would love to work togehter to improve it.
20:25:21GitDisc<treeform> but I am a rewrite kind of a guy... so I rewrite it.
20:25:48GitDisc<treeform> `The function defaults information not provided in the format string from the running program (timezone, month, year, etc). ` this part really made me confused.
20:26:24GitDisc<treeform> Also it uses the systems time stuff which I am not a fund of.
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20:27:48FromGitter<GULPF> most of the reliance on C headers is removed in my PR
20:27:57GitDisc<treeform> oh nice
20:28:10GitDisc<treeform> TimeInfo has not place for fractional seconds for example
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20:28:44GitDisc<treeform> timezone, is an int minutes, but what do you do if its in seconds?
20:28:54GitDisc<treeform> some other issues i saw
20:29:18GitDisc<treeform> I am als
20:29:39GitDisc<treeform> I am also not a fan of the TimeInterval model. I don't think complex intervals like that are easy to use.
20:29:44FromGitter<GULPF> have you checked my PR? most (I hope all) of the tz issues are solved. `DateTime` is still limited to seconds though
20:30:11GitDisc<treeform> I was not aware of your PR untill about 1 day ago.
20:30:26GitDisc<treeform> I have not looked at it closly
20:33:34FromGitter<mratsim> Maybe ask @qqtop for input as well, he is using nim for Finance/Trading and we do need very high resolution DateTime types there.
20:33:35GitDisc<treeform> I still have not solved all TZ issues.
20:34:06GitDisc<treeform> For example if you have a calendar, and add 75 hours to it.
20:34:14GitDisc<treeform> And it had a dst transition in the middle
20:34:19GitDisc<treeform> how should I count it?
20:34:31GitDisc<treeform> for hours I probably should just add timestamps...
20:34:39GitDisc<treeform> hmm for days Just add days... maybe it works.
20:34:45GitDisc<treeform> I have not thought about that case.
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20:35:21FromGitter<GULPF> some libs define a day as exactly 24 hours. that can lead to confusing behavior though
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20:36:17GitDisc<treeform> Yeah my philosophy is that timestamp is king. Not the calendar/datetime object.
20:36:58GitDisc<treeform> The way I perfer to use time is always convert it to a timestamp. Store it as a timestamp, and only display/parse it.
20:37:06GitDisc<treeform> With the complex calendar object.
20:37:42GitDisc<treeform> That is not how times module is setup though.
20:39:45GitDisc<treeform> My days should be any number of hours, event negative for when Alaska switched from being -8 (russian time) to +8 (american time).
20:39:55GitDisc<treeform> I should write tests for that.
20:40:13GitDisc<treeform> Could be good test for extram timezone switch
20:40:56GitDisc<treeform> because they are just a display of timestamp + timezone it should work.
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20:46:59elroodtreeform: is there a particular reason your timeZones.bin stores every entry twice?
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20:47:24GitDisc<treeform> bug?
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20:51:48GitDisc<treeform> you right it does. I will figure this out.
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21:46:48FromGitter<Varriount> @GULPF Why wouldn't a day be more than 24 hours?
21:46:57FromGitter<Varriount> Or rather, why wouldn't a day be exactly 24 hours
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21:54:56shashlickdom96: thanks for giving my forum account
21:54:59shashlickFixing
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21:58:37jnaHi all, I just tried to install "aporia" using Nimble as per the instructions at https://github.com/nim-lang/Aporia, the install log says it was successful but on executing aporia, this error occurs:
21:58:49jnacould not load: libgtksourceview-2.0.so(|.0)
21:58:49jnacompile with -d:nimDebugDlOpen for more information
21:59:30FromGitter<GULPF> @Varriount: https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/issues/6465
21:59:57jnaVarriount: Ta
22:00:54jnaAh not for me then 8-)
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22:12:56dom96jna: you need to install gtksourceview
22:13:51jnaI have, I followed the requirements for dependencies, using the system package manager
22:14:59dom96are you sure?
22:15:14dom96does libgtksourceview-2.0.so exist on your system?
22:15:17jnaQuite, but checks anyway
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22:16:18joshuahorwitzJust getting into Charpet 8 - Advanced Nim in Nim in Action
22:16:37jnaCharpet .... you cook animals, that's just sick
22:16:42joshuahorwitzlol
22:16:46jna8-)
22:18:06jnaAh ffs! The system install libgtksourceview-3.0-1:amd64 even though I am sure I was pulling in ver 2, in fact, it has pulled in GTK3.0 not 2.0 also. I guess this is the issue?
22:19:53dom96yep
22:20:21jnaSigh
22:20:38*jna removes stuff
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22:27:53jdhorwitz /script install buffers.pl buffer_autoclose.py iset.pl go.py colorize_nicks.py
22:28:07jdhorwitzoops, sorry
22:29:35jnadom96: Sorted, libgtksourceview2.0-common & friends in, Aporia works, sweet!
22:29:53*jna pees pants in excitement 8-)
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22:30:48jdhorwitzSorry for all the drops/joins, should be done now
22:31:00jnaYeah you better be sorry
22:31:17jna8-) ... about the only action going in here anyway
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23:01:06jdhorwitzlol
23:01:17jdhorwitzI know! Hoping to contribute and get this place popping
23:03:40jnaLikewise
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23:30:00dom96Glad you guys want to contribute :)
23:30:05dom96Let me know if you need any help
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