<< 13-03-2018 >>
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11:37:18FromGitter<dandevelo> Anyone knows how to get choosenim to use mingw64?
11:40:57dom96Not supported right now I'm afraid
11:42:49livcd3
11:42:53livcdoops
11:42:56FromGitter<dandevelo> @dom96 I see that choosenim puts gcc.exe in .nimble\bin on Windows which is also added to the path. Doesn't seem to play well with apps wanting to use another gcc (32 vs 64)
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11:45:22FromGitter<dandevelo> putting gcc in .nimble\bin and having it in the PATH shadows other gcc for all the apps installed
11:45:48dom96true, but it only does that if there is no other gcc in the path
11:49:26FromGitter<dandevelo> The reason why I am asking these is because I am trying to create a dev environment on Windows where I can build both 32bit and 64bit apps
11:54:45Yardanicoyou can always download mingw-w64 and compile nim yourself
11:54:53Yardanicoa bit more work, but you'll be able to compile both 32/64bit apps
11:59:59FromGitter<krux02> I was just reading the documentation of strformat. And I was a bit puzzled. What is the difference between f and F
12:00:12FromGitter<krux02> f is fixed point
12:00:28FromGitter<krux02> which is already a weird expression, because it is printing a floating point number
12:01:04FromGitter<krux02> but I assume it means to print the floating point number in non-exponent notation, which is fine
12:01:13FromGitter<krux02> but then what does F mean?
12:01:34FromGitter<krux02> it converts the number (that does not contain letters at all) to upper case?
12:01:43PMunchAccording to the strformat docs it converts it to upper-case
12:01:54PMunchHmm
12:02:53FromGitter<krux02> yea exactly
12:02:58FromGitter<krux02> I think the documentation is wrong
12:03:27FromGitter<krux02> either F is just an alias for f or f does somthing else
12:03:38PMunchProbably just a copy-paste thing
12:03:58PMunchUpper-case letters are upper-case output. But 'f' just happens to have no letters
12:04:18FromGitter<krux02> well when it is the same as the format specifiers in C, then f is not fixed point output
12:06:35PMunchYeah, according to the code it uses 'f' or 'F' to set the mode to ffDecimal, then when the formatter is done it checks if the input is in the set A..Z to see if it shall convert it to upper-case
12:08:30FromGitter<krux02> I just looked at that same code, too
12:08:42FromGitter<krux02> my guess was that it just forwards to sprintf
12:09:02FromGitter<krux02> if it does, I would make a pull request to just copy paste the documentation of printf
12:09:28PMunchIsn't strformat pure?
12:10:23PMunchYup, so definitely not using sprintf
12:10:27FromGitter<krux02> well I worked on the default implementation of floating point number formating
12:10:36FromGitter<krux02> and that alone already calls sprintf
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12:12:07PMunchAh, it uses formatBiggestFloat
12:12:10AraqF means to produce an 'E' instead of 'e'
12:12:17PMunchWhich on native uses sprintf
12:12:22Araqtough mayb I overlooked to implement that
12:12:32PMunchAraq, but fixed point doesn't use E does it?
12:12:38FromGitter<krux02> https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/blob/67fd7a7f865e7e725dfcd4c2ec2c5840f3457f60/lib/pure/strutils.nim#L2033
12:12:43FromGitter<krux02> nope, not pure
12:13:09PMunchIf you format with e or E you get exponential mode. But with f or F it uses fixed-point notation so it shouldn't have an 'E' in it
12:13:14PMunchHence nothing to upper-case
12:13:37Araqwhatever then
12:13:46FromGitter<krux02> well, %f in printf does produce exponential representation
12:13:48PMunchkrux02, but it can call JS format functions as well
12:14:04FromGitter<krux02> yea it has branching based on the platform
12:14:20FromGitter<krux02> and i think it is good to rely on the javascript backend
12:14:36PMunchYeah, but strformats 'f' doesn't convert to printfs 'f'
12:14:40FromGitter<krux02> because you would not want a printf implementation ported over to a web application
12:15:32FromGitter<krux02> PMunch: yes it does: https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/blob/67fd7a7f865e7e725dfcd4c2ec2c5840f3457f60/lib/pure/strutils.nim#L2013
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12:27:57PMunchHuh, so it does
12:29:37PMunchBut according to the C++ docs f doesn't produce exponential representation
12:30:12PMunchhttp://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/io/c/fprintf
12:31:15Araqyeah it was my bad
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12:55:47Yardanicowait, we can't have directories inside of src/<package name> folder? Nimble complains about that. My structure is: srcDir = "src", src/myproject.nim is the main file and src/myproject/modules is a directory where I have some modules
12:57:49Yardanicook, it worked with `myprojectpkg` instead of `myproject`
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13:08:23PMunchYeah, you can't have both the main file and a directory with the same name as the main file in src
13:08:27PMunchOr something like that
13:19:23FromGitter<dandevelo> Can nim 32bit be used to build 64 bit apps or it doesn't matter which nim version I use (32-vs-64) because they both generate C code?
13:27:43YardanicoYeah, you can use nim compiled for arm64 to compile for i386 (if you have such C cross-compilers)
13:27:54Yardanico(it's just an example)
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13:34:55PMunchUhm, is this a bug? http://ix.io/WwZ/
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13:38:02PMunchChannel: stable, Version: #devel
13:38:06PMunchA stable devel?
13:46:59FromGitter<survivorm> maybe it means that devel tag is at the same commit as a stable?
13:49:34dom96PMunch: You selected channel 'stable' and then '#devel'?
13:49:44dom96That's indeed misleading
13:49:48dom96report it
13:50:35PMunchNot really sure what I did, I probably have installed stable at some point, but is currently using #devel
13:55:20FromGitter<survivorm> Does they differ in realty?
13:55:24PMunchDone: https://github.com/dom96/choosenim/issues/54
13:55:33PMunchsurvivorm, devel and stable?
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13:55:39FromGitter<survivorm> yeah
13:55:51PMunchdevel is just whatever is on the devel branch of the Nim repo when you pull it
13:56:04PMunchStable is the last tagged release on the master branch
13:56:05PMunchIIRC
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13:56:15FromGitter<survivorm> I mean, thay may be the same commit at this time
13:56:43FromGitter<survivorm> not very big chances, but still
13:57:13PMunchNah, there's been a number of commits since 0.18.0
13:57:36FromGitter<survivorm> which you've updated with choosenim?
13:57:48dom96https://github.com/dom96/choosenim/blob/master/src/choosenim/channel.nim#L12
13:58:00dom96That's how the channels are defined
13:59:07dom96What do you get if you curl that? "0.18.0"
14:01:41PMunchHmm: http://ix.io/Wxm/
14:01:51dom96-L
14:01:55dom96follow redirects
14:02:37PMunch0.18.0
14:02:53PMunchHmm, what's the difference betwen devel and #devel?
14:03:29dom96no difference
14:03:55dom96but 'devel' is a channel, and '#devel' is a version
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14:05:50dom96all channels have a version associated with them
14:05:55PMunchAh
14:05:57dom96in 'devel's case, that is always '#devel'
14:06:09PMunchSo I should just use devel instead of #devel
14:06:12dom96yeah
14:06:45PMunchMaybe selecting #devel when not on the devel channel should be an error
14:06:54PMunchAs it's not a valid version for other channels?
14:07:16dom96nah
14:07:23dom96We know what the user wants to do
14:09:12PMunchFair enough, but then it should switch to the devel channel automatically :P
14:11:26dom96sure
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15:43:18FromGitter<krux02> Is there a way to generate C header files from a Nim module?
15:43:56FromGitter<krux02> only exported function of course
15:44:30PMunch--header
15:45:02PMunchAccording to "nim --advanced": "--header:FILE the compiler should produce a .h file (FILE is optional)"
15:46:23FromGitter<krux02> cool
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15:50:21FromGitter<krux02> PMunch, hmm it doesn't work
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15:50:35FromGitter<krux02> wait
15:50:39FromGitter<krux02> maybe it's my fault
16:04:04PMunchDid you figure it out?
16:05:06FromGitter<krux02> yes I just forgot export C
16:05:14FromGitter<krux02> I thought for some reason * is enough
16:06:31FromGitter<krux02> hmm, how do I export a struct/object?
16:08:26PMunchhttps://forum.nim-lang.org/t/96
16:08:34PMunchOld topic, but maybe applicable
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16:25:50FromGitter<krux02> well I found out that structs are exported lazyliy and the export pragama is ignored
16:26:23FromGitter<krux02> the exported struct will have this fancy mangled name, yay.
16:26:41shashlickdom96: did you have any feedback on handling https://github.com/nim-lang/nimble/pull/464#issuecomment-372187378
16:27:17shashlickone more option is to excl() after running a pre or postHook
16:27:49PMunchkrux02, did you try to exportc it with a name?
16:28:17dom96shashlick: I'd like to postpone it until I'm working on the next release and look at in more detail then
16:28:58shashlickokay cool
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16:33:44PMunchkrux02, I just did some testing and for me it doesn't mangle it
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16:49:40Araq--header is not really supported
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16:55:58FromGitter<mratsim> Did an Elm dev join Nim? ;) ⏎ ⏎ ```code paste, see link``` [https://gitter.im/nim-lang/Nim?at=5aa8029e01a2b40f382dc16a]
16:56:36dom96What's that from?
16:57:59shashlickhow come I can incl() a string in a HashSet but excl() complains?
16:58:24shashlickError: type mismatch: got <HashSet[system.string], string>
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16:59:18FromGitter<mratsim> @dom96: from having a int has an input to a uint32 range type: ⏎ ⏎ ```code paste, see link``` [https://gitter.im/nim-lang/Nim?at=5aa803657685a046389c913e]
17:01:28dom96mratsim: ok, but where did you get that code from?
17:01:48FromGitter<mratsim> I’m writing it
17:02:56FromGitter<mratsim> I’m implementing pbkdf2 in Nim: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PBKDF2#Key_derivation_process see the “F” function
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17:26:47dom96This is cool http://bit.ly/2pbVpNR
17:28:15ieatnerdsthat's pretty neat!
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17:41:24dom96hey jalbo. Freenode WebChat is muted right now, but you can join via Gitter as well if you want a web interface: https://gitter.im/nim-lang/Nim
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18:06:13fvsbest practice? c2nim wraps into cint, cdouble, cstring, etc. Leave as is or change to int, double, string.
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18:15:53dom96leave as is
18:15:59dom96cstring != string
18:16:07dom96there is a reason the C variants are used
18:20:56fvsok - just relaized i can always add helper func(a:int, b:double) = cfunc(a.cint, b.cdouble)
18:21:03fvs*realized
18:21:29dom96Yes, the best practice is to create a wrapper in one module
18:21:35dom96and then create another module that builds on top of that wrapper
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19:14:40FromGitter<alehander42> hm
19:16:20dom96🤔
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20:37:33Araqalehander42: any feedback on 'knete'?
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21:03:18Araqmratsim: eventually I figured Nim's overloading is irrelevant for the error reporting. only took me one year or something. :P
21:03:46Araqwell it could merge duplicated information for the overloads
21:04:27Araqgot the idea on FOSDEM
21:05:08Araqit's the best improvement in 0.18 and the changelog doesn't even mention it :-)
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21:05:57Araqwell no. the best improvement is the better times module that I can now use without having to worry :P
21:07:19FromGitter<alehander42> yeah, merging duplicate info will be sublime
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21:07:36FromGitter<alehander42> Araq: sorry, I was travelling these days, only got a glance :(
21:08:35FromGitter<alehander42> seems nice, I still have some doubts in some cases, e.g. if several render functions depend on the same values, how easy would it be to react to changes in it this way
21:10:05dom96alehander42: can you fix this? https://github.com/nim-lang/packages/pull/663
21:10:16Araqwell "redraw the world" is always easy enough to do
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21:10:44AraqI have been wondering if we should have a (really simple) diff algorithm for this then though
21:10:51Araqso that input fields keep their state
21:11:23Araqbut it reintroduces some problems too
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21:11:49Araqso the diff algorithm would operate on the real DOMs, not virtual DOMs
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21:13:28FromGitter<alehander42> @dom96 I think the last version doesn't have this additional life
21:14:00FromGitter<alehander42> @Araq yeah, that's true too, but sometimes redraw the whole world is too slow to happen often
21:14:16dom96ahh yes, #head is good
21:14:30dom96I should really write a bot to merge these packages PRs
21:14:54Araqin my reactive experiments I used the diff algorithm for partial DOMs
21:14:57FromGitter<alehander42> what would it produce then? real nodes instead of vnode?
21:16:55Araqthat's what 'knete' does, yes
21:19:37dom96what is this 'knete'?
21:21:35AraqGerman for Plasticine
21:22:24Araqit's an experiment; "karax without DOM diffing"
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21:24:36Araqprobably DOM diffing is here to stay though
21:25:36dom96How complete is Karax nowadays?
21:25:40dom96is it missing any big features?
21:26:05Araqrouting got useful only recently
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21:26:32dom96interesting. Routing in react has come in rather late IIRC
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21:26:50Araqand the performance requirements of the diff'ing algorithm made it really complex
21:26:51dom96You should definitely start marketing it properly
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21:34:27Araqmaybe. something is still missing though and I have some ideas what that is
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21:40:17Araq!eval var seqOfStrings: seq[int] = @[int]
21:40:18NimBotCompile failed: in.nim(1, 32) Error: internal error: expr(skType); unknown symbol
21:40:34Araqlovely
21:41:28Araq!eval type MyTuple = tuple(a: int, b: int)
21:41:30NimBotCompile failed: in.nim(1, 21) Error: invalid indentation
21:42:24Araqfair enough, 'tuple' is also a type class and (a: int, b: int) an expression following it
21:42:48Araq!eval var myTuple: MyTuple = [a: 10, b: 10]
21:42:49NimBotCompile failed: in.nim(1, 14) Error: undeclared identifier: 'MyTuple'
21:43:14Araq!eval var myTuple: tuple[a, b: int] = [a: 10, b: 10]
21:43:16NimBotCompile failed: in.nim(1, 34) Error: undeclared identifier: 'a'
21:44:42Araq"Quiz 2: Now, imagine that you are a nim newbie. Try to fix the errors with the help of nim manual and compiler error messages." so ... copy the syntax from working examples instead of guessing the syntax?
21:44:50AraqI think that could work out.
21:46:37shashlicki'm still stuck - why does Nim think system.string is different from string
21:47:05shashlickError: type mismatch: got <HashSet[system.string], string>
21:47:49Araqimported gtk3?
21:49:25Araqshashlick: you have some 'string' declared somewhere?
21:50:20shashlickhttps://pastebin.com/xZahjUSk
21:51:06shashlickthis is in nimble code - preHooks is defined as HashSet[string]
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21:55:24Araqexpression: excl(pkgInfo.preHooks, cast[system.string](normalize(actionName)))
21:55:41Araqwhere does this 'cast' come from?
21:56:17Araqsmells like a wrong macro transformation
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22:07:28shashlicksorry, even if I remove the cast, it complains the same, that was me trying stuff out
22:08:17shashlickeven if it just says excl(pkgInfo.preHooks, normalize(actionName)), it fails
22:08:57shashlickor pkgInfo.preHooks.excl(actionName.normalize) for that matter
22:09:22shashlickbut if I create a simple nim file with a HashSet, incl() and excl() work as expected with strings
22:10:29shashlickfunny thing is that just a few lines earlier, actionName.normalize in pkgInfo.preHooks works fine
22:11:01shashlick if before: actionName.normalize in pkgInfo.preHooks
22:11:07shashlickhttps://github.com/nim-lang/nimble/blob/75b7a215e83903219d69c86af64fe5f5f495cf95/src/nimblepkg/nimscriptexecutor.nim#L26
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22:17:00Araqmaybe pkgInfo.preHooks is immutable and for some reason the compiler is silent about it
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22:27:27Araqlet pkgInfo = getPkgInfoFromFile(nimbleFile, options)
22:27:32Araq^ it's 'let'
22:28:05Araqusually the compiler does a good job of pointing that out. not sure why it fails here
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22:32:28shashlickI see - I was looking for it
22:36:20FromGitter<zacharycarter> Rust / Nim got brought up at work today :/
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22:40:32FromGitter<zacharycarter> I've apparently become the anti-rust person at work
22:41:03FromGitter<zacharycarter> even though I don't have any real problems with the language - beyond how much it reminds me of C++
22:42:58FromGitter<zacharycarter> there wasn't too much commentary on Nim - one person said they didn't like style / case insensitivity and another person mentioned something about dynamic arrays and openArray but they were just confused.
22:43:14shashlickaraq: should I open an issue?
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22:48:08shashlickaraq: https://gist.github.com/anonymous/5ca5421d6f2c3190edbed54f7d03b341
22:48:16dom96zacharycarter: what sort of things does your company develop?
22:48:45FromGitter<zacharycarter> dom96: mostly web applications
22:49:12dom96So Rust isn't appropriate for that anyway :)
22:49:19FromGitter<zacharycarter> hopefully in the future we'll be doing more machine learning and predictive analytics on our data
22:49:54shashlickfor me, rust vs nim is like ruby vs python, i just couldn't get into ruby's syntax and preferred python
22:49:58FromGitter<zacharycarter> yeah but I mean we have a lot of RESTful APIs and we're starting to ramp up graphql services
22:50:24FromGitter<zacharycarter> also - a lot of people are writing lambda jobs now and making certain portions of their solutions serverless
22:50:45FromGitter<zacharycarter> we're doing that - and we're writing it in Go as opposed to Nim, because Nim is funky to get working w/ lambda
22:50:53shashlickforget any technical analysis, just the feel of the language
22:51:09Araqshashlick: sure, it's a regression I think. caused by the otherwise improved error messages :-)
22:51:26FromGitter<zacharycarter> I could talk to my boss about writing it in Nim
22:51:29shashlickit's almost like vim vs emacs or keyboard vs mouse for trackers, if anyone remembers those days
22:51:34FromGitter<zacharycarter> but I'm not sure he'd go for it when Go is available
22:52:02FromGitter<ZarsBranchkin> hehe, vim and emacs both were too great, ended up using both combined
22:52:55FromGitter<zacharycarter> also - I wouldn't be able to carry out the function of the lambda unless the AWS Nim stuff works - because I need to talk to a dynamodb instance
22:54:20FromGitter<zacharycarter> so I might as well ask, does anyone know the status of this lib - https://github.com/aidansteele/aws_sdk.nim
22:54:54FromGitter<zacharycarter> does - https://github.com/aidansteele/aws_sdk.nim/blob/master/aws_sdk/dynamodb.nim - work for instance?
22:55:08FromGitter<zacharycarter> if so it definitely helps cases for using Nim in the enterprise
22:55:55FromGitter<cabhishek> How do you argue about maintenance? Say, if you are building a critical system who will maintain it after few nimmers are no longer working for the company?
22:56:20FromGitter<zacharycarter> that's an argument I'll have to win - the fact that my team is only two people atm helps
22:57:24FromGitter<zacharycarter> I expect I'll be met with a few questions right off the bat - why use a language that hasn't reached 1.0 yet, and why use a language no one else knows
23:00:25dom96Honestly, if you're using aws lambda at work then play around with it at home in Nim
23:00:48dom96Rewrite the aws package if you must. You will gain a hell of a lot of knowledge about the inner working of lambda by doing so.
23:00:55dom96Even if you never end up using it
23:01:01FromGitter<zacharycarter> dom96: I already wrote a lambda job in Nim
23:01:31FromGitter<zacharycarter> but it used https://github.com/jboy/nim-pymod
23:02:00FromGitter<zacharycarter> I think though you could do what they did with golang and use RPC
23:02:50FromGitter<zacharycarter> I think there are benefits to trying out a language like Nim in production - I'll just have to explain them to my manager
23:03:07dom96Do let us know how it goes :)
23:03:30FromGitter<zacharycarter> well if I get Nim in production - I definitely will
23:04:10FromGitter<zacharycarter> That's why I'm working on this graphql library
23:04:31dom96even if it doesn't work out, do let us know what the hang ups were
23:04:40FromGitter<zacharycarter> okay I will
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23:07:40shashlickhttps://github.com/genotrance/nimbigwig
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23:10:22FromGitter<zacharycarter> I have no idea what libbigwig is
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23:32:09FromGitter<zacharycarter> There's a C++ SDK for AWS - https://github.com/aws/aws-sdk-cpp - I just have no idea how to bind to C++ w/ Nim 😕 staring at the source of UrhoNim has never enlightened me
23:32:23shashlickSomething qleda wanted, genome related stuff
23:33:33FromGitter<zacharycarter> gotcha
23:33:51FromGitter<zacharycarter> shashlick: are you genotrance on github?
23:35:51Araqzacharycarter: don't start with the AWS C++ SDK. start with their C++ examples.
23:36:15Araqand translate them to Nim. this way you see the parts you actually need to wrap.
23:37:01Araqwrapping C++ is like wrapping C except you need to learn the "importcpp" pattern language. or you use c2nim to produce it
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23:38:14FromGitter<zacharycarter> okay I'll give this a shot - thank you Araq :)
23:42:52AraqI don't know how to wrap e.g. https://github.com/aws/aws-sdk-cpp/blob/master/aws-cpp-sdk-budgets/include/aws/budgets/BudgetsRequest.h either.
23:47:23FromGitter<zacharycarter> yeah - I'm going to start with the aws-cpp-sdk-core tests and see what I can come up with... I don't know - I think @Varriount has probably been here and done this but I know he's also busy so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
23:50:30shashlick@zacharycarter: yep same
23:51:10FromGitter<zacharycarter> shashlick: thank you for nimgen :D that's how I made the gql query parser bindings so quickly
23:52:06FromGitter<zacharycarter> once I figured out how it worked I loved it!
23:52:36shashlickoh that's cool, I tried graphql as well but didn't go too far
23:52:45shashlickgot stuck with the C++ API, the C API was easier but limited
23:53:11shashlicki've just been wrapping anything people ask for so that nimgen can be improved
23:53:46shashlickbut need to write NIm APIs to these wrapped libs so that the C interop is abstracted