<< 13-08-2022 >>
00:08:52FromDiscord<Zectbumo> Which to install VSCode Nim: Konstantin Zaitsev (60k installs, last updated 2.5 years ago) or nimsaem (7k installs, last updated 3 months ago)?
00:11:43FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> the latter
00:12:45FromDiscord<Zectbumo> thx
00:59:23NimEventerNew Nimble package! mersal - Send SMS and Otp in nim, a wrapper for TextBelt's public API, see https://github.com/foxoman/mersal
01:00:16FromDiscord<Rainbow Asteroids> TOTP > sms otp
01:22:32NimEventerNew thread by Polarian: Native compile option?, see https://forum.nim-lang.org/t/9366
01:40:37FromDiscord<ajusa> I remember seeing a library for auth/perms somewhere that I can't find now. I checked nimble.directory and can't find it either
01:41:01FromDiscord<ajusa> I recall that you could create a user/entity, and give it specific permissions
01:41:37FromDiscord<flywind> In reply to @ajusa "I remember seeing a": This one? https://github.com/FedericoCeratto/nim-httpauth
01:41:47FromDiscord<ajusa> In reply to @flywind "This one? https://github.com/FedericoCeratto/nim-ht": Nope
01:42:18FromDiscord<ajusa> It had a few interesting concepts, and no persistence iirc
01:46:28FromDiscord<ajusa> Found it: https://github.com/ba0f3/rbac.nim
01:46:41FromDiscord<ajusa> Keyword was "role based access control"
01:48:16FromDiscord<flywind> I saw it before, guess I need to add it to my list.
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02:55:26FromDiscord<MagPhi> Is nim faster or haxe?
02:57:28FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Nim can be fast
02:58:06FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> It's a language that gives a ton of control, you can be as fast as your favourite high level system language, be it C/C++/Pascal/Rust/Zig/Ada/...
02:58:27FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Nim's speed is down to the programmer just like most languages
03:03:49FromDiscord<Prestige> Nim
03:04:26FromDiscord<huantian> yes this i nim
03:04:35FromDiscord<huantian> (edit) "i" => "is"
03:09:54FromDiscord<MagPhi> Yeah didnt expect anything else
03:09:57FromDiscord<MagPhi> Should I use haxe or nim
03:10:05FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Nim
03:10:12FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> If you ask a haxe community they'll say haxe
03:10:30FromDiscord<MagPhi> Haxe has an advantage of C# bc that allows me to access the ecosystem of .NET
03:10:37FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> If you want an expressive language with pascal heritage use Nim. If you want a C#/Java replacement use Haxe
03:10:39FromDiscord<MagPhi> In reply to @Elegantbeef "If you ask a": Yes I have asked there too
03:10:51FromDiscord<MagPhi> In reply to @Elegantbeef "If you want an": Pascal heritage?
03:11:04FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Nim is heavily inspired by pascal/Modula/Oberon
03:13:01FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> I've personally never used Haxe but it very much seems like a better C#/Java, if you want that then there you go
03:18:47FromDiscord<flywind> In reply to @MagPhi "Haxe has an advantage": You can use https://khchen.github.io/winim/clr.html to interact with Windows .NET frameworks
03:19:10FromDiscord<Prestige> That's awesome
03:19:30FromDiscord<Prestige> But yeah I agree with Beef, you should use Nim
03:19:55FromDiscord<MagPhi> In reply to @flywind "You can use https://khchen.github.io/winim/clr.html": Perfection
03:19:57FromDiscord<flywind> In reply to @flywind "You can use https://khchen.github.io/winim/clr.html": see also https://forum.nim-lang.org/t/7265
03:21:15FromDiscord<MagPhi> In reply to @flywind "You can use https://khchen.github.io/winim/clr.html": Is this interop better or js interop?
03:21:48FromDiscord<flywind> js interop is official and should be better.
03:22:12FromDiscord<MagPhi> alright
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03:25:53FromDiscord<MagPhi> Was the csources repo handwritten?
03:26:39FromDiscord<huantian> don't think so
03:26:48FromDiscord<MagPhi> Then how was it produced?
03:27:05FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Nim was bootstrapped years ago using pas2nim
03:27:25FromDiscord<flywind> https://github.com/nim-lang/csources_v1/blob/561b417c65791cd8356b5f73620914ceff845d10/build.sh#L4
03:27:45FromDiscord<flywind> `koch csource`
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03:32:00FromDiscord<MagPhi> I cant read bash scripts but this is just compiling the generated object files
03:32:13FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Nim outputs C code
03:32:15FromDiscord<MagPhi> are the object files generated by the nim compiler?
03:32:17FromDiscord<MagPhi> Oh
03:33:04FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> There is NLVM which uses LLVM instead, but Nim outputs C/C++/Js
03:33:28FromDiscord<flywind> What's your use case? for game development? Or system programing?
03:33:45FromDiscord<MagPhi> Systems programming and JS interop
03:34:02FromDiscord<flywind> (edit) "programing?" => "programming?"
03:35:17FromDiscord<flywind> haxe doesn't seem to be a system programming language and it uses immix gc for hashlink,
03:36:10FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Yea like i said it's pretty much a nicer C#/Java
03:37:42FromDiscord<flywind> Nim supports deterministic memory management (ARC), which is designed for system programming.
03:38:04FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> It also has RAII and high control which haxe doesnt have
03:39:34FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> I guess their C++ backend might be usable
03:39:41FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> But going to be a pain
03:43:52FromDiscord<MagPhi> In reply to @Elegantbeef "But going to be": Nim's generated code isnt really readable
03:44:00FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Cool you dont need to read it
03:48:56FromDiscord<Prestige> Yeah, just compile and run
03:49:23FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> `-d:danger` makes it a bit more readable
03:49:27FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> But yea you dont really need to read it much
03:58:28FromDiscord<MagPhi> nim cc, nim compileToC generate a binary
03:58:36FromDiscord<MagPhi> How do I get to the C file
03:58:51FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> You look at your `nimcache` which is by default `.nim/cache`
03:59:04FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> you an do `--nimcache:cacheHere`
04:01:05FromDiscord<huantian> wait isn't it `.cache/nim`
04:01:24FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> It is
04:01:24FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> I'm dumb
04:09:05FromDiscord<Bubblie> hello! what would be the equivalent of const char in nim?
04:09:24FromDiscord<Bubblie> would it be cchar or just char
04:09:39FromDiscord<flywind> No, you have to importc by yourself.
04:10:12FromDiscord<Bubblie> oh, I kinda meant like, if there was anything in nim that would be just the general equivalent to it
04:10:51FromDiscord<flywind> cchar/char should work, see also https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/issues/19588
04:10:58FromDiscord<MagPhi> should I use nimlsp or nim/langserver
04:11:03FromDiscord<Bubblie> In reply to @flywind "cchar/char should work, see": thank you :)
04:12:26FromDiscord<flywind> In reply to @MagPhi "should I use nimlsp": nim/langserver should work well with big projects and it supports nimsuggest v3 option.
04:12:44FromDiscord<flywind> It is used in production by status.im
04:13:38FromDiscord<flywind> (edit) "well" => "better"
04:18:13FromDiscord<Prestige> I should try getting that working again with neovim
04:18:48FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> The downside is you need a compiler built with a specific commit since it hasnt been in a release yet↵(@flywind)
04:20:09FromDiscord<flywind> In reply to @Elegantbeef "The downside is you": I see. I will try it with the nim compiler after disabling nimsuggest for a long while.
04:21:19FromDiscord<MagPhi> In reply to @Avahe "I should try getting": I am seeing if I can get nimlangserver working with neovim
04:25:15FromDiscord<MagPhi> I installed nimlangserver but what is the command?
04:25:37FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> should be nimlangserver, but like mentioned if you dont have a compiler with the commit it requires it will not work
04:25:56FromDiscord<MagPhi> but its building
04:26:48FromDiscord<MagPhi> (edit) "its building" => "it installed"
04:26:55FromDiscord<MagPhi> Hmm the command doesnt work
04:26:59FromDiscord<MagPhi> Which commit?
04:28:49FromDiscord<Prestige> Can you just use choosenim devel?
04:29:29FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> It's mentioned on nimlangserver's github
04:29:34FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> You can
04:29:40FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Or `choosenim #thecommit`
04:40:02FromDiscord<Hamid_Bluri> does other nim tools nimble/nimpretty,... update when I hit `choosenim update ...` ? or just Nim compiler itself?
04:40:15FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> They do update all the tooling shipped with nim
04:40:21FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> nimble isnt a nim tool technically
04:40:34FromDiscord<Hamid_Bluri> thanks
04:42:38FromDiscord<flywind> Yeah, nimble will be installed by sepcified commit in the Nim compiler
04:42:53FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Oh right it does
04:47:15FromDiscord<flywind> Discord editing doesn't seem to show on matrix 😕
04:47:25FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Yep it's a shame
04:47:29FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> The bridge is really meh
04:48:19FromDiscord<Rainbow Asteroids> write a better bridge when
04:53:48FromDiscord<MagPhi> I installed choosenim through nible
04:53:52FromDiscord<MagPhi> (edit) "nible" => "nimble"
04:53:57FromDiscord<MagPhi> but the command is not working
04:55:08FromDiscord<huantian> What is the error?
04:55:58FromDiscord<MagPhi> choosenim: command not found
04:59:07FromDiscord<huantian> Oh you installed it via nimble, not sure then
05:04:20FromDiscord<huantian> I would probably install it via the script
05:07:26FromDiscord<Bubblie> just a quick question, im making some bindings but for all C integers should I use cint and ciunt? when should I use each respectively since nim also has the difffeten integers like uint64 and int64
05:08:06FromDiscord<Generic> you can bind explicitly sized integers like uint8_t as uint8 in Nim
05:08:21FromDiscord<Generic> in fact I don't even think there is something like cuint8 or so in Nim
05:09:11FromDiscord<Bubblie> ah okay
05:09:33FromDiscord<Bubblie> and for int32_t cant I just make that int in nim
05:09:36FromDiscord<Bubblie> rather than specifically saying
05:09:39FromDiscord<Bubblie> int32
05:09:44FromDiscord<Generic> no
05:09:46FromDiscord<MagPhi> In reply to @huantian "I would probably install": `choosenim-init: Downloading choosenim-0.8.4_linux_amd64↵main: line 77: /tmp/choosenim-0.8.4_linux_amd64: No such file or directory`
05:09:55FromDiscord<Generic> int32_t -> int32
05:09:55FromDiscord<Bubblie> In reply to @Generic "no": so I should specify int32
05:10:00FromDiscord<Generic> yes
05:10:02FromDiscord<Bubblie> alright thank you :)
05:10:58FromDiscord<flywind> In reply to @MagPhi "`choosenim-init: Downloading choosenim-0.8.4_linux_": There are pre-built releases for linux https://github.com/dom96/choosenim/releases
05:11:03FromDiscord<MagPhi> but what is it ?
05:11:06FromDiscord<MagPhi> an executable?
05:11:19FromDiscord<flywind> Yeah
05:11:25FromDiscord<MagPhi> but it doesnt work
05:11:37FromDiscord<flywind> What's your OS?
05:11:46FromDiscord<MagPhi> `exec: Failed to execute process '/tmp/choosenim-0.8.4_linux_amd64': The file exists and is executable. Check the interpreter or linker?`
05:11:53FromDiscord<MagPhi> In reply to @flywind "What's your OS?": NixOS
05:12:09FromDiscord<huantian> you can't just execute executables on nixos
05:12:28FromDiscord<huantian> because NixOS is ✨ special ✨
05:12:43FromDiscord<MagPhi> Makes sense
05:14:06FromDiscord<flywind> You can download latest prebuilt nim compiler from nightlies => https://github.com/nim-lang/nightlies/releases/tag/2022-08-13-devel-713f39083ee37085ba24345af741e5b448fdcc05
05:14:45FromDiscord<huantian> hmm I'm not sure if anyone has made a nightly overlay for nim
05:15:42FromDiscord<MagPhi> so I used nimble to build langserver
05:15:45FromDiscord<MagPhi> it produces a binary
05:16:09FromDiscord<MagPhi> but when I run the binary it doesnt give any output
05:18:08FromDiscord<huantian> you'd probably just have better luck if you use `nimlsp` which is already packaged for nix
05:18:44FromDiscord<MagPhi> I didnt try installing it through nix but
05:19:07FromDiscord<MagPhi> when I try to install it using nimble it says nimsuggest folder not found
05:19:28FromDiscord<huantian> yes because nixos won't install nim nor nimsuggest where it normally is
05:19:34FromDiscord<Bubblie> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=47sd
05:19:55FromDiscord<huantian> note <https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/blob/3a11db5f408095b8f08b098ec2066947f4b72ce2/pkgs/development/tools/misc/nimlsp/default.nix#L19>
05:20:29FromDiscord<MagPhi> so if I install nimlsp
05:20:38FromDiscord<MagPhi> should I use nightlies or the latest stable version?
05:20:39FromDiscord<Bubblie> also what would the equivalent of va_list in nim
05:20:45FromDiscord<huantian> In reply to @MagPhi "should I use nightlies": latest stable
05:20:49FromDiscord<MagPhi> alright
05:21:13FromDiscord<huantian> the `nim` package you probably have already should be fine
05:21:19FromDiscord<huantian> the wonders of NixOS
05:22:38FromDiscord<MagPhi> the nim package I have cannot build nimlsp
05:23:17FromDiscord<huantian> are you installing <https://search.nixos.org/packages?channel=unstable&show=nimlsp&from=0&size=50&sort=relevance&type=packages&query=nim>
05:23:41FromDiscord<MagPhi> no i tried installing it using neovim
05:23:51FromDiscord<MagPhi> which installs it using nimble install nimlsp
05:23:54FromDiscord<MagPhi> (edit) "nimlsp" => "nimls"
05:24:14FromDiscord<huantian> hm sorry I can't really help with neovim stuff
05:24:32FromDiscord<huantian> but can't you have nvim use a specific path
05:24:46FromDiscord<MagPhi> nvm I did install it
05:25:13FromDiscord<MagPhi> but running nimlsp doesnt do anything
05:25:42FromDiscord<huantian> well I don' think it should?
05:25:51FromDiscord<huantian> like running the lsp binary directly
05:25:57FromDiscord<huantian> idk how lsp works
05:41:05FromDiscord<Rainbow Asteroids> sent a code paste, see https://paste.rs/D1h
05:41:26FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> `readData(addr buffer[0], amount)`
05:41:45FromDiscord<Rainbow Asteroids> that makes a lot of sense, thank you
05:58:58FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> @Rainbow Asteroids\: worth noting there is `readStr`
05:59:21FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Ah nvm you're reading to a byteseq
06:26:55FromDiscord<!&luke> How can I get the directory that the binary of the program is
06:27:11FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> https://nim-lang.org/docs/os.html#getAppDir
06:27:18FromDiscord<!&luke> Oh
06:29:15FromDiscord<!&luke> Also is there a way I can tell if a user is connected to the internet without sending a request to a website
06:29:32FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Probably os depended
06:29:52FromDiscord<!&luke> Meh I'll just send a request
06:34:44FromDiscord<MagPhi> after installation where will the files in nim/config go?
06:34:50FromDiscord<MagPhi> and nimble?
06:36:54FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Depends how you installed it, for choosenim it's `.choosenim/yournimversion/`
06:37:32FromDiscord<MagPhi> i used the install script in nim-nightly and installed it into a folder
06:37:48FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Perhaps `.nim` no clue i've only ever used choosenim
06:39:52FromDiscord<MagPhi> hmm files in the nimble folder goes in .nimble
06:40:03FromDiscord<MagPhi> but nim/config?
06:46:37FromDiscord<!&luke> Making an update feature is kinda hard
06:46:46FromDiscord<!&luke> Because I have to make sure it's cross platform
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07:10:43FromDiscord<Phil> sent a long message, see http://ix.io/47sD
07:10:59FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Think it's `#branch`
07:12:23FromDiscord<Phil> where? After the general repo, like↵`nimble install https://github.com/PhilippMDoerner/norm#branchfeature/%133-add-public-fromRow`?
07:13:15FromDiscord<Phil> I'm mostly getting a lot of ` Error: 'hg' not in PATH.` errors
07:13:59FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Rename your branch to something sane
07:14:20FromDiscord<Phil> sad branch naming noises
07:16:35FromDiscord<Phil> Damn you git and your temptation to have issue-references in branch names
07:16:48FromDiscord<Phil> (edit) "git" => "github"
07:22:04FromDiscord<Phil> just naming the branch 133-add-public-fromRow without the `feature/#` still doesn't get many further:↵.... wait, nimble reacts to tags!
07:22:09FromDiscord<Phil> Maybe I can just tag the branch
07:33:14FromDiscord<Phil> Nope.↵I can't just use <my repo>#<tag-name> as that always causes the "hg" error the second a hash is involved, <my repo>@<tag-name> is only for versioning tags (which also compares with the nimble version) so I'm either manually adding stuff to nimble or waiting
07:33:54FromDiscord<Phil> (edit) "repo>#<tag-name>" => "repo>#<branch or tag-name>"
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08:00:28NimEventerNew post on r/nim by qFoxoman: Send Sms/Otp in nim - Mersal, see https://reddit.com/r/nim/comments/wn8xv6/send_smsotp_in_nim_mersal/
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08:09:33FromDiscord<4zv4l> is there a function or a set of functions in the stdlib to interact with the pcap.h lib ? to scan packets from an interface ?
08:10:59FromDiscord<enthus1ast> no, either search for a nimble module thats wraps it (not aware of any) or wrap it yourself
08:12:28FromDiscord<4zv4l> alright, gonna try
08:13:26FromDiscord<enthus1ast> maybe c2nim, Nimterop or futhark can help you with this
08:16:38FromDiscord<4zv4l> do you have a small example of how to wrap a small c function in nim ? then I can start doing it from 'scratch'
08:17:28FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> https://nim-lang.org/docs/manual.html#foreign-function-interface-importc-pragma
08:18:19FromDiscord<4zv4l> thanks !
08:18:28FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Can also refer to things like https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/blob/version-1-6/lib/posix/posix_other.nim
08:24:22FromDiscord<4zv4l> alright I still don't totally get it
08:25:11FromDiscord<4zv4l> like, what if I wanna make my own printf in nim that use printf to print "hello, world" how do I do that ?
08:25:20FromDiscord<enthus1ast> what i often do is, i copy small snippets in c2nim
08:25:37FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> That is importing C's printf
08:26:00FromDiscord<enthus1ast> @4zv4l\: also have a look how the stdlib does it
08:26:12FromDiscord<4zv4l> wait so, am I supposed to translate the pcap lib or interact with it ?
08:26:48FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> you need to import the libraries into nim
08:27:54FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=47sS
08:28:45FromDiscord<enthus1ast> ah
08:28:46FromDiscord<enthus1ast> https://github.com/PMunch/nim-pcap
08:29:30FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=47sT
08:29:45FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> That's not for the library enthus
08:29:55FromDiscord<enthus1ast> yes i know
08:30:00FromDiscord<4zv4l> wait so I do have to translate it
08:30:03FromDiscord<4zv4l> why
08:30:09FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> You dont have to translate it
08:30:12FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> You have to import it
08:30:22FromDiscord<4zv4l> why can't I just import the library and use the functions directly ? like if I was importing a nim lib ?
08:30:24FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Cause Nim and C use different type systems
08:30:39FromDiscord<4zv4l> sent a code paste, see https://paste.rs/LMF
08:30:40FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> That's not rewritten
08:30:44FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> That's an imported struct
08:30:54FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Consider `char` in C what is it in Nim?
08:30:58FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> This is impossible to tell
08:31:07FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> If you want a zig like import look at futhark
08:31:59FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Nim and C are not the same language nor do they share most semantics
08:32:18FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Hell even a `int` is ambiguous in C
08:32:53FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Does it expect a heap allocated int, a reference, a partridge in a pair tree?
08:34:13FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> C's type system is very lax which makes it hard to import into a language that cares about types
08:34:20FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Well hard to automatically
08:35:24FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Though futhark does it's job well and you can write like 3 lines of import and get a library to work
08:35:24FromDiscord<Phil> In reply to @Elegantbeef "Does it expect a": Your mortal soul, it expects your mortal soul to be poured into the variable to function
08:35:35FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Probably phil
08:35:39FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> It's a joke of a type system
08:35:46FromDiscord<4zv4l> if I use futhark, will nim be able to include the functions I use inside the binary for no library dependencies ?
08:36:05FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> If you statically link yes
08:36:08FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Otherwise no
08:36:12FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Just like if you used it from C
08:37:34FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> On debian libpcap does ship a static library
08:37:39FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> So you can statically link it easily
08:38:19FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> No clue if your distro does, but i just had to check
08:46:47FromDiscord<4zv4l> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=47sX
08:46:47FromDiscord<4zv4l> what is the use of varargs also ?
08:47:13FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> varargs was only for `printf` cause in C it uses varargs
08:47:19FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> you have a `:` after the procedure
08:47:43FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> it's `proc getAdd(x, y: cint): cint {. header:"math.c", importC: "add".}`
08:48:11FromDiscord<4zv4l> alright, I start to get it I thikn
08:48:14FromDiscord<4zv4l> (edit) "thikn" => "think"
08:55:10FromDiscord<tandy> leorize\: can i use union with std/options?
08:55:23FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Only if you ask nicely
08:55:24FromDiscord<4zv4l> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=47sY
08:55:34FromDiscord<4zv4l> what did I do wrong ?
08:55:36FromDiscord<tandy> [Edit](https://discord.com/channels/371759389889003530/371759389889003532/1007935332160897024): leorize\: can i use union with std/options?↵like `Option[union(string | int)]`
08:55:56FromDiscord<4zv4l> or it's because I didn't typedef the struct ?
08:56:01NimEventerNew thread by N8: What's the use case for a "block" statement?, see https://forum.nim-lang.org/t/9367
08:56:28FromDiscord<4zv4l> yes
08:56:31FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> sent a code paste, see https://paste.rs/w6O
08:56:31FromDiscord<4zv4l> that was the typedef
08:56:40FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> you'd have to do `struct humans` otherwise
08:56:46FromDiscord<4zv4l> alright, thank you so much
08:56:55FromDiscord<4zv4l> damn I think I really start to get it
08:56:56FromDiscord<4zv4l> xD
08:57:08FromDiscord<4zv4l> but yeah Zig and Nim way to do that is way different I think
08:57:44FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Yea Nim compiles to C so just makes you import the types verbatim
09:00:27FromDiscord<Prestige> Is there a plan to allow same-name properties for object variants?
09:00:46FromDiscord<4zv4l> if I make my lib, is there a way I can share it and someone use it without having the pcap.h on its system ?
09:00:59FromDiscord<Yardanico> In reply to @Avahe "Is there a plan": only if they have the same type, but yeah, the RFC is kinda semi-accepted
09:01:00FromDiscord<4zv4l> without compiling the lib in .so or .dll ofc
09:01:16FromDiscord<Yardanico> In reply to @4zv4l "without compiling the lib": if they have the pcap lib installed, then yes, they won't need pcap.h if your bindings don't use that header
09:01:17FromDiscord<Prestige> In reply to @Yardanico "only if they have": Neat, thanks
09:01:42FromDiscord<Yardanico> otherwise you'll have to ship the binary with statically linked pcap or something like that (if you don't want users to install it themselves)
09:01:56FromDiscord<Yardanico> and again, pcap.h is only needed for compilation, of course it won't be needed for actually running the binary
09:02:11FromDiscord<4zv4l> yeah right, if I compile it in static right ?
09:02:42FromDiscord<4zv4l> because I had that trouble using Goland using the pcap lib and even when compiling (supposed to be static) I got error when not having the pcap lib
09:03:22FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Well you have to statically link it properly(just like you would with C) with Nim
09:06:50FromDiscord<tandy> [Edit](https://discord.com/channels/371759389889003530/371759389889003532/1007935332160897024): leorize\: can i use union with std/options?↵like `Option[union(string | int)]`↵EDIT\: Yes \:)
09:07:38FromDiscord<Rika> In reply to @Avahe "Is there a plan": I’d assume only if the types are the same as well
09:08:37FromDiscord<4zv4l> Don't kill me for what I'm gonna say but would it be possible for Nim to add support for Zig ? Would it be worth it ? Like zig doesn't depend on libc or anything and does really fast and small binaries
09:08:49FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> You can use zig cc
09:08:54FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> There isnt much benefit
09:09:13FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Zig has similar issues to C for importing C code
09:09:20FromDiscord<Yardanico> In reply to @4zv4l "Don't kill me for": you can make it so that Nim won't depend on libc either, it's just a matter of writing another stdlib
09:09:24FromDiscord<Yardanico> or you can just statically link it
09:09:30FromDiscord<Yardanico> and nim does "really fast and small binaries" too fwiw
09:11:10FromDiscord<4zv4l> In reply to @Elegantbeef "There isnt much benefit": From what I have used zig cc does better optimisation than gcc or others c compiler I used
09:11:34FromDiscord<Rika> ?
09:11:34FromDiscord<Yardanico> In reply to @4zv4l "From what I have": `zig cc` is literally just `clang`, so your statement is kinda weird
09:11:36FromDiscord<Rika> In what sense
09:11:46FromDiscord<4zv4l> Like even with all the flag for size optimisation I get to 14k with gcc maybe 12k with tcc and with zig I easily get to 7k with the same code
09:11:50FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Clang + linker!↵(@Yardanico)
09:11:59FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> TCC isnt good for file size
09:12:15FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> It's literally the laziest compiler with the single goal of "get code out"
09:12:30FromDiscord<Rika> TCC is for compilation speed yes
09:12:43FromDiscord<4zv4l> In reply to @Yardanico "you can make it": Yeah but why rewrite the stdlib when zig got one
09:12:49FromDiscord<Rika> In reply to @4zv4l "Yeah but why rewrite": What?
09:12:53FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Cause Nim isnt Zig?
09:12:56FromDiscord<Yardanico> In reply to @4zv4l "Yeah but why rewrite": nim also got one already
09:13:10FromDiscord<Rika> I don’t know what you mean
09:13:14FromDiscord<Yardanico> and about file size, as I said - you compared tcc and gcc, but `zig cc` uses clang
09:13:15FromDiscord<Rika> Or rather imply with that statement
09:13:25FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Why write a Rust stdlib when C has one
09:13:42FromDiscord<Yardanico> I kinda can't follow the dialogue anymore 🤔
09:13:47FromDiscord<Yardanico> what are we trying to argue about
09:13:50FromDiscord<4zv4l> Im not saying Nim is bad or anything I really like it just since it's up from C and C++,... why not add Zig to the list since Zig had lot of advantages over C
09:13:51FromDiscord<Rika> Yeah I don’t get it
09:13:54FromDiscord<4zv4l> Not arguing
09:14:08FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Cause when you use C as an IR zig doesnt add much
09:14:10FromDiscord<Yardanico> In reply to @4zv4l "Im not saying Nim": but how does that matter for Nim?
09:14:11FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Aside from portabillity
09:14:16FromDiscord<4zv4l> Just got a thought about Nim and Zig
09:14:18FromDiscord<Yardanico> Nim only uses C as a compilation target, Zig won't change anything
09:14:33FromDiscord<4zv4l> Well if Nim use Zig as target the binary could be faster and smaller
09:14:36FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> The only benefit Zig adds is a cross platform compiler and linker
09:14:38FromDiscord<Yardanico> In reply to @4zv4l "Well if Nim use": no
09:14:46FromDiscord<enthus1ast> maybe better cross compilation
09:14:52FromDiscord<Yardanico> yes, but you can already do that with zig cc
09:14:56FromDiscord<4zv4l> In reply to @Yardanico "no": No ?
09:14:59FromDiscord<Yardanico> In reply to @4zv4l "No ?": no.
09:15:00FromDiscord<Rika> In reply to @4zv4l "Well if Nim use": Why would it be?
09:15:00FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> No
09:15:22FromDiscord<enthus1ast> ah yeah↵(@Yardanico)
09:15:29FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Unless Zig is significantly faster than the equivlent C it's not any faster
09:15:53FromDiscord<4zv4l> In reply to @Rika "Why would it be?": Because it has been proven that zig makes smaller and faster binaries
09:16:03FromDiscord<Rika> In reply to @4zv4l "Because it has been": what
09:16:15FromDiscord<Yardanico> In reply to @4zv4l "Because it has been": at this point you are starting to seem like a troll honestly, sorry if that sounds a bit hostile
09:16:19FromDiscord<Rika> What does that even mean
09:16:20FromDiscord<Yardanico> there are no proofs for that
09:16:56FromDiscord<4zv4l> https://youtu.be/Z4oYSByyRak
09:16:58FromDiscord<4zv4l> 22:00
09:17:04FromDiscord<4zv4l> He's showing that the zig binary is faster
09:17:13FromDiscord<4zv4l> Im not trolling im trying to talk
09:17:40FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Language benchmarks a fucking joke
09:17:41FromDiscord<Yardanico> in one specific case, and the difference was negligible compared to C
09:17:44FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Dont buy into the koolaid
09:18:00FromDiscord<4zv4l> Im maybe the only one here thinking Zig is a better language that C and that's why you think I'm a troll
09:18:08FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> I think zig is better than C
09:18:15FromDiscord<Yardanico> In reply to @4zv4l "Im maybe the only": we're not arguing about that
09:18:23FromDiscord<Yardanico> but we're talking about Nim, not C
09:18:38FromDiscord<Rika> Zig is better than C but not for the reasons you state
09:18:42FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Yard it's worse
09:18:43FromDiscord<4zv4l> Yeah Nim which is a language that wrap another language isn't it ?
09:18:55FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> I believe he uses comptime to achieve the speedup
09:19:01FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> So something Nim can do
09:19:07FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> No Nim doesnt wrap another
09:19:09FromDiscord<Rika> In reply to @4zv4l "Yeah Nim which is": Just how Zig wraps the LLVM IR and C does for assembly?
09:19:14FromDiscord<Yardanico> In reply to @4zv4l "Yeah Nim which is": That's not much different, there's even an unofficial LLVM backend for Nim.
09:19:16FromDiscord<Rika> (edit) "In reply to @4zv4l "Yeah Nim which is": Just ... how" added "like"
09:19:17FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> It uses C as a very portable IR to reach many platforms
09:19:24FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Nim does not wrap any language
09:19:25FromDiscord<enthus1ast> haha trigger comments \:)
09:19:35FromDiscord<enthus1ast> the transpiler nim is
09:19:40FromDiscord<Yardanico> bingo card
09:19:43FromDiscord<Rika> Enthusiast!!!
09:19:54FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Style sensitivity sucks!
09:20:08FromDiscord<Rika> Beefs got the spirit at least
09:20:13FromDiscord<enthus1ast> e\_ch\_O "foo"
09:20:19FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Lol
09:20:20FromDiscord<Rika> Achoo
09:20:23FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> 3am is my excuse rika
09:20:34FromDiscord<Rika> Bad excuse
09:21:03FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> In summary the benefits from speed got from Zig's implementation in that case were from the compiler having a rich compile time
09:21:10FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Which it just so happens Nim has aswell
09:21:26FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> So switching to zig for anything but portability is pretty much a joke
09:21:30FromDiscord<4zv4l> Alright
09:21:37FromDiscord<4zv4l> And I wasn't talking about switching
09:21:38FromDiscord<flywind> In reply to @4zv4l "Don't kill me for": Feel free to write a Zig backend in library form like nlvm, the Nim team doesn't have much manpower to maintain one officially.
09:21:40FromDiscord<4zv4l> Just adding target
09:22:00FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Is it really better than using `zig cc`?
09:22:10FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Like we can already use zig's compiler to compile C and link it across platforms
09:22:14FromDiscord<Rika> I wouldn’t think so
09:22:24FromDiscord<4zv4l> Well I don't know much about zig xx
09:22:26FromDiscord<4zv4l> Cc
09:22:38FromDiscord<Yardanico> In reply to @4zv4l "Just adding target": yes, but as we told you, it doesn't make sense to do that
09:22:53FromDiscord<Yardanico> we already have the C target and an unofficial LLVM backend, and Zig also uses LLVM to create native binaries
09:22:53FromDiscord<4zv4l> Just from what I used it and I used it a lot it tends to make smaller binaries with zero dependencies and the stdlib is usable even on freestanding
09:22:56FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Zig cc calls the C compiler shipped with zig that it uses for `include` it allows you to compile and link binaries across platforms
09:23:03FromDiscord<Yardanico> so adding Zig as yet another backend wouldn't result in any benefits
09:23:13FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> I mean we can get without many flags 22kb hello world
09:23:16FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> 5kb with static musl
09:23:27FromDiscord<Rika> Insert 100ish byte hello world here
09:23:31FromDiscord<4zv4l> 5k is still too much for an hello world program
09:23:35FromDiscord<Rika> Forgot if it was 100 bytes or something
09:23:41FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> It was 100 bytes i think
09:23:56FromDiscord<4zv4l> Hand crafted elf can do that in like 100 bytes yeah I think
09:23:56FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Think it was like 149 bytes
09:24:13FromDiscord<Yardanico> In reply to @4zv4l "Hand crafted elf can": but no one does that for real apps
09:24:19FromDiscord<4zv4l> Yeah ofc xD
09:24:54FromDiscord<Rika> I don’t know, what’s wrong with the lib c dependency(
09:24:57FromDiscord<Rika> (edit) "dependency(" => "dependency?"
09:25:05FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> oh shit apparently the char says 41 bytes
09:25:11FromDiscord<4zv4l> Alright you can teach me something it's just I still don't get how come years ago they could make operating system that could fit in 5k and now a simple hello world is easily 14k
09:25:31FromDiscord<Yardanico> because of money and time
09:25:31FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> https://cr.yp.to/bib/1995/wirth.pdf↵(@4zv4l)
09:25:41FromDiscord<Rika> Because no one would write the operating system like that nowadays?
09:25:46FromDiscord<enthus1ast> and bigger drives
09:25:50FromDiscord<Yardanico> development costs money, development takes time, with abstractions (that consume memory and processing power) you can get the job done faster
09:26:14FromDiscord<Yardanico> so that's what (almost) everyone does nowadays
09:26:33FromDiscord<4zv4l> So that's just about abstraction and coding faster ?
09:26:47FromDiscord<Yardanico> it's about getting the product done faster and costing less money to create, yes
09:26:55FromDiscord<Yardanico> that's why Electron has become popular for cross-platform apps
09:27:06FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> When you have more resources you dont have to spend as much time optimising it to make it run as fast as prior so you get shittier code
09:27:08FromDiscord<Rika> I mean don’t you know about the saying that “time is money”
09:27:11FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> As time goes on you get blloat
09:27:44FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Wirth's plea i linked explains it quite well for even 1995
09:27:59FromDiscord<enthus1ast> also i think nim is already pretty good in terms of executable size
09:28:03FromDiscord<enthus1ast> compared to eg go
09:28:15FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> I mean it used to advertise 41byte size hello world on the website
09:28:23FromDiscord<Rika> Well go is statically linked so
09:28:27FromDiscord<Rika> It’s not exactly fair
09:28:48*derpydoo quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
09:30:36FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> I think really most people dont need to care about executable size, it's just accepted programs have size
09:30:47FromDiscord<Phil> sent a long message, see http://ix.io/47t7
09:30:53FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Unless you're in a constrained environment it's not important anymore
09:31:20FromDiscord<Rika> Most of the time it’s more expensive to spend dev time than to spend run time
09:31:22FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Just give them pizza and coffee they'll work for free!↵(@Phil)
09:32:02FromDiscord<enthus1ast> its not THAT important anymore; just look at eg how older notebooks struggle to use the discord app
09:32:14FromDiscord<Rika> If beef was my employer I feel like I’d be fired immediately because I don’t eat pizza (so the bribe doesn’t work)
09:32:18FromDiscord<enthus1ast> if bloat accumulates you got a problem
09:32:31FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Dont worry rika it'd be the greatest canadian pizza
09:32:33FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Hawaiian
09:32:37FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> most people wouldnt eat it
09:32:42FromDiscord<Phil> I agree with your point enthus1ast, but who will pay the money for it?
09:32:49FromDiscord<Rika> I don’t eat pizza at all, but when I did I liked Hawaiian
09:33:04FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Fuck yea Canada for the win!
09:33:54FromDiscord<Rika> In reply to @Isofruit "I agree with your": People will complain and maybe sooner or later a competitor would win out and you’ll lose your company xd but it’s doubtful for discord
09:34:03FromDiscord<Phil> I'd love for discord to be native, take only like 5Mb of RAM and be thrice as fast (afaik native chat clients manage to go that low?), but at one point one must acknowledge that you get discord while "only" paying with your data
09:34:03FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Canadian cuisine is so bland we're best known for just adding ingredients to existing things and calling id different
09:34:23FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Well you also have to acknowledge people dont really care that much
09:34:51FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> A good example of this is that games are in the 100s of GBs now
09:34:59FromDiscord<Rika> Why is it called Hawaiian if it’s from Canada last time I checked Hawaii isn’t Canadian
09:35:10FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Pineapples are tropical
09:35:10FromDiscord<Phil> In reply to @Rika "Why is it called": yet
09:35:13FromDiscord<Phil> Beef has plans
09:35:33FromDiscord<Rika> :monkaChrist:
09:36:51FromDiscord<Phil> In reply to @Elegantbeef "A good example of": Aye, here though I feel like one has actual reason to be miffed because you're paying money and they're still hogging your drive like it's free real estate
09:37:52FromDiscord<Phil> Given that not that many games in the "massive file size" department actually do anything that interesting gameplay wise
09:38:14FromDiscord<Phil> (edit) "wise" => "wise, I'm very happy that the industry has a seemingly solid "indie" core nowadays"
09:51:27FromDiscord<MagPhi> sent a code paste, see https://paste.rs/5kk
09:51:29FromDiscord<MagPhi> Why is this happening
09:55:02FromDiscord<Prestige> Would need to see your code
09:55:15FromDiscord<Prestige> if you do -d:debug instead of release, you should get a stack trace
09:55:32FromDiscord<MagPhi> My file is just a hello world
09:56:04FromDiscord<Prestige> just 1 line, `echo "Hello, world"`?
09:56:12FromDiscord<MagPhi> Yes
09:56:45FromDiscord<enthus1ast> --parallelBuild\:0 maybe?
09:56:55FromDiscord<Prestige> It's working for me (on linux)
09:57:15FromDiscord<enthus1ast> ah its --o
09:57:29FromDiscord<enthus1ast> (not tested \:) )
09:57:40FromDiscord<MagPhi> wdym?
09:58:38FromDiscord<enthus1ast> [Edit](https://discord.com/channels/371759389889003530/371759389889003532/1007950954424975430): ~~ah its --o~~
09:58:46FromDiscord<enthus1ast> [Edit](https://discord.com/channels/371759389889003530/371759389889003532/1007951014588076112): ~~(not tested \:) )~~
10:00:43FromDiscord<enthus1ast> no, i cannot reproduce it (on windows)
10:03:09FromDiscord<enthus1ast> i think, i had this one before, back then it was a mismatch between compiler and stdlib, if i remember correctly
10:03:58FromDiscord<enthus1ast> can you try to add "-f" ?
10:22:55FromDiscord<Phil> ... I need to use ndb/sqlite more, damn is it nice to get proper Rows instead of seq[string] as Rows for sql records
10:23:47FromDiscord<enthus1ast> imho we should patch all the database modules in the stdlib
10:24:20FromDiscord<enthus1ast> all db's should support this
10:24:47FromDiscord<Phil> ndb is only missing mysql really and the generic version of the _sqlite libs
10:37:33FromDiscord<xzntrc> is it possible to force text into the user input?
10:37:43FromDiscord<Phil> Well, one thing after another, first get norm the ability to deal with arbitrary object types and Signal system, then let's see about improving Std SQL libs
10:39:05FromDiscord<xzntrc> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=47tf
10:39:19FromDiscord<xzntrc> i dont know if I'm even making sense.
10:41:41FromDiscord<xzntrc> or can I use readLineFromStdin()
10:42:01FromDiscord<Rika> I don’t know what you’re trying to mean
10:42:11FromDiscord<xzntrc> ok what I mean is like
10:42:21FromDiscord<xzntrc> fuck I dont know how to explain
10:42:24FromDiscord<Rika> To have text that’s there to edit beforehand?
10:42:31FromDiscord<xzntrc> I think thats what i mean?
10:43:04FromDiscord<Rika> Yes but I assume it implies some cursed incantation of POSIX (or was it ANSI) terminal manipulation or something
10:43:26FromDiscord<xzntrc> what i mean is like
10:43:45FromDiscord<xzntrc> having user input, but already having some basic input there, which the user can press enter to, or backspace and replace
10:43:56FromDiscord<Rika> I know I get it
10:44:24FromDiscord<Rika> But as I’ve said it probably implies some sort of terminal manipulation and manual reimplementation of input or so
10:45:08FromDiscord<Phil> I think your best bet is every keystroke , manipulate input if necessary, ask for input again and try to hide your earlier asking for input, if that's even possible
10:45:24FromDiscord<Phil> (edit) "I think your best bet is every keystroke ... ," added "counts as input"
10:45:27FromDiscord<xzntrc> fuck
10:45:47FromDiscord<Phil> Though as stated, only if the first bit is even possible
10:46:18FromDiscord<xzntrc> I've saved all input into a text file called history, and I want to allow the user to call back to it using the up arrow and be able to manipulate it
10:46:53FromDiscord<Phil> Wait, you were the guy making his own shell right?
10:47:02FromDiscord<Phil> Hmm
10:47:15FromDiscord<xzntrc> In reply to @Isofruit "Wait, you were the": yesh
10:47:15*pro joined #nim
10:47:15FromDiscord<xzntrc> :3
10:48:11FromDiscord<Phil> How the heck does zsh do it with their ctrl r previews?
10:48:51FromDiscord<Phil> Maybe they have their own input implementation?
10:48:51FromDiscord<xzntrc> that's what im thinking
10:49:02FromDiscord<Rika> They do
10:49:07FromDiscord<Rika> They manipulate the terminal
10:49:13FromDiscord<xzntrc> fock
10:49:19FromDiscord<xzntrc> so i dont pressume this would be an easy task
10:49:24FromDiscord<Rika> You can just use line noise
10:49:27FromDiscord<Rika> Library
10:51:28FromDiscord<xzntrc> will check
10:56:06FromDiscord<xzntrc> https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/371759389889003532/1007965762570432512/unknown.png
10:56:20FromDiscord<xzntrc> https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/371759389889003532/1007965824692256818/unknown.png
10:56:31FromDiscord<xzntrc> this was probably the sketchiest way possible to write out histroy
10:56:36FromDiscord<xzntrc> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=
10:56:55FromDiscord<xzntrc> I didn't know if it were possible to write only to the end of the file, so i'm taking whats there and dumping it back
10:59:50FromDiscord<Rika> You’re not gonna have fun with multi line commands then
11:00:00FromDiscord<xzntrc> oh fuck
11:00:03FromDiscord<xzntrc> ill figure something out
11:00:19FromDiscord<xzntrc> i still dont even have binary execution done :troll:
11:00:38FromDiscord<xzntrc> I'll have my own user defined pathb
11:00:39FromDiscord<xzntrc> (edit) "pathb" => "path"
11:09:01FromDiscord<ShalokShalom> https://blog.nindalf.com/posts/stop-citing-tiobe/
11:37:13FromDiscord<dom96> Here is my favourite PL popularity ranking: Wikipedia page view stats. https://pageviews.wmcloud.org/?project=en.wikipedia.org&platform=all-access&agent=all-agents&redirects=0&start=2015-07&end=2022-07&pages=Nim_(programming_language)|D_(programming_language)|Zig_(programming_language)|Rust_(programming_language)
11:38:20FromDiscord<dom96> Nothing is perfect though, that Zig spike is interesting
11:39:30*jmdaemon quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
11:40:03FromDiscord<dom96> but also, that tiobe article is wrong
11:40:23FromDiscord<dom96> It actually would use `+"xkcd programming"` as a search term which gives 1.5k results
11:42:46FromDiscord<EyeCon> In reply to @flywind "Discord editing doesn't seem": You can do a `s/old/new` to replace something in the next message though, something (bots? bridges themselves?) edits your message on both sides
11:44:24FromDiscord<EyeCon> In reply to @4zv4l "do you have a": As a newcomer, I recently wrapped two easy libraries, maybe you can take a look: https://github.com/EyeCon/smaznim and https://github.com/EyeCon/shoconim (if I understood you right)
11:47:51FromDiscord<EyeCon> In reply to @xzntrc "What I mean is,": I think some shells are using https://tiswww.case.edu/php/chet/readline/rltop.html for this
11:49:04FromDiscord<tandy> this a thought in the far future for nimskull↵(@4zv4l)
11:50:13FromDiscord<haxscramper> support for zig as a compiler\
11:50:36FromDiscord<haxscramper> not support for zig as a separate target backend, although this is a possibility
11:53:39FromDiscord<tandy> ah mb
11:54:29FromDiscord<tandy> i think thats what 4zv4l wants anyway
11:56:32FromDiscord<Rainbow Asteroids> In reply to @EyeCon "You can do a": s/thatisdone/clientside
11:57:11FromDiscord<dom96> I don't get the people that keep asking for Zig/Rust/etc backends
11:57:20FromDiscord<dom96> like what's the point, just use Zig/Rust if you really want
11:58:42FromDiscord<tandy> cos no one wants to write rust lol
11:59:03FromDiscord<Rainbow Asteroids> lol
11:59:04FromDiscord<tandy> dom do you have time to review my nimble pr resurrection \:)?
11:59:08FromDiscord<dom96> and what will a Rust backend get you?
11:59:20FromDiscord<dom96> you'll just get Nim, it will just happen to call the Rust compiler
11:59:24FromDiscord<dom96> the language will be the same
11:59:28FromDiscord<tandy> you could rewrite nim in rust↵(@dom96)
11:59:38FromDiscord<dom96> maybe what you're really asking for is lifetimes
12:00:11FromDiscord<Rainbow Asteroids> In reply to @dom96 "and what will a": longer compile times
12:00:14FromDiscord<dom96> a Rust backend won't magically make Nim have the same compile-time memory safety as Rust
12:00:29FromDiscord<dom96> In reply to @tandy "dom do you have": about to head out for McDonalds so no :D
12:14:53FromDiscord<domosokrat> That is simple logic for them\: 'c backed == easy integration with c code' =\@dom96)
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12:46:18FromDiscord<exelotl> Hey, if someone is getting this error when trying to install my Nimble package: https://hastebin.com/raw/ibelezizof
12:46:28FromDiscord<exelotl> is there a command they can run to get more information?
12:54:23FromDiscord<noiryuh> welp, i just Nim supports Zig as C compiler
12:54:25FromDiscord<leorize> you might want to make your own option type with union \:p
12:55:16FromDiscord<noiryuh> In reply to @noiryuh "welp, i just Nim": since you have to write a `zig cc` wrapper (which is different on linux and windows)
12:55:54FromDiscord<Rainbow Asteroids> just write in nim then?
12:57:04FromDiscord<noiryuh> how?
12:57:27FromDiscord<noiryuh> `--cc:clang --clang.exe:zig-cc --clang.linkerexe:zig-cc`
12:58:08FromDiscord<noiryuh> it's like triple the length instead of simple `--cc:zig`
12:59:16FromDiscord<ShalokShalom> In reply to @dom96 "It actually would use": I think they changed thaz6
12:59:22FromDiscord<ShalokShalom> That article is quite old
13:01:03FromDiscord<ShalokShalom> (edit) "thaz6" => "that"
13:05:05FromDiscord<Phil> In reply to @Rainbow Asteroids "longer compile times": Nim makes me too productive and is too fun to write, got to slow it down!
13:09:13FromDiscord<Phil> In reply to @noiryuh "it's like triple the": Actually you raise a good point in that zig support might be a bit difficult to figure out ( from what I understood from your post).↵I'll make an SO question about this later I thing for easier googling
13:09:31FromDiscord<Phil> zig compiler support
13:09:45FromDiscord<Phil> (edit) "thing" => "think"
13:10:43FromDiscord<Phil> Though the main benefit I've seen from using the zig compiler so far is being able to define what version of glibc to link against
13:10:49FromDiscord<noiryuh> could be this↵or waiting for `zig toolchain` command (there is issue about it) to generate a wrapper
13:12:02FromDiscord<noiryuh> welp, i have cross-compiled from linux to windows using this
13:12:09FromDiscord<Phil> Honestly I'd rather manpower goes to Bugfixes given that zig compiler support functionally exists, albeit not in the most convenient way (aka needs 3 flags instead of 1)
13:12:32FromDiscord<noiryuh> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=47tP
13:15:11FromDiscord<noiryuh> welp, just by changing the triple and `--os`↵i could compile for linux musl and macos too
13:16:06FromDiscord<noiryuh> but if Nim supports Zig as C compiler
13:16:15FromDiscord<noiryuh> you could reduce the compiler and linker flags
13:16:33FromDiscord<noiryuh> Nim will automatically add it via `--os`
13:17:14FromDiscord<Rainbow Asteroids> can't you pass flags conditionally using `config.nims` for the time being?
13:18:05FromDiscord<noiryuh> welp, mostly the problem is writing wrapper
13:18:41FromDiscord<noiryuh> since Nim will find a program called `zig\ cc` (literally escaped space in the middle)
13:18:54FromDiscord<noiryuh> and i have no idea how to write a wrapper in windows
13:18:57FromDiscord<noiryuh> 😅
13:19:40FromDiscord<noiryuh> and you also have `bat` and `ps1` on windows too
13:19:49FromDiscord<noiryuh> different syntax iirc
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13:42:41FromDiscord<noiryuh> idk how hard to add another C compiler in Nim
13:43:00FromDiscord<noiryuh> since Zig uses Clang so it should be easy
13:44:10FromDiscord<dom96> In reply to @ShalokShalom "That article is quite": It’s less than a month old?
13:45:11FromDiscord<noiryuh> Nim has supported multiple C compilers which i have no idea are there any people using it currently↵like lcc, watcomc, borlandc, pocc, dmc, sunproc, etc.
13:45:24FromDiscord<noiryuh> (edit) "currently↵like" => "now↵like"
13:45:48FromDiscord<dom96> Pretty sure others have been able to compile Nim using ‘zig cc’
13:46:13FromDiscord<dom96> @Yardanico possibly
13:46:18FromDiscord<Phil> In reply to @noiryuh "but if Nim supports": Wait, why do you say it doesn't?
13:46:29FromDiscord<Yardanico> it does
13:46:31FromDiscord<Phil> Dom remember my prologue guide?
13:46:45FromDiscord<noiryuh> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=47tV
13:46:46FromDiscord<Phil> It describes how to use zig in there
13:46:49FromDiscord<Yardanico> sent a code paste, see https://paste.rs/baX
13:46:51FromDiscord<Yardanico> create a script like that, name it with something without spaces and add it to PATH
13:46:59FromDiscord<Yardanico> then just do `--cc:clang --clang.exe:"myzigname"`
13:47:09FromDiscord<noiryuh> i mean
13:47:11FromDiscord<Yardanico> and pass other args
13:47:13FromDiscord<noiryuh> support natively
13:47:37FromDiscord<noiryuh> https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/pull/13757
13:47:44FromDiscord<noiryuh> no idea why it's removed
13:48:29FromDiscord<Yardanico> In reply to @noiryuh "no idea why it's": because honestly there's no need
13:48:42FromDiscord<Yardanico> it's just clang with cross-compilation, why would it need a separate compiler entry
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14:01:38FromDiscord<krisppurg> Is there a way to determine the duration of an audio file?
14:02:21FromDiscord<krisppurg> (edit) "Is there a way to determine the duration of an audio file? ... " added "either by using nim's stdlib."
14:03:07FromDiscord<Rika> not with the stdlib iirc
14:03:21FromDiscord<Rika> stdlib has no video/audio codec processing
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14:05:23FromDiscord<krisppurg> what about the nimble packages?
14:07:36FromDiscord<Rika> i dont know of any, you can easily search them in nimble.directory no?
14:12:09FromDiscord<Ras> hello!↵maybe a dumb question, but I'm new to nim. How would I go about sending a 32-bit integer (in native byte order) via a socket?
14:12:55FromDiscord<noiryuh> In reply to @Yardanico "it's just clang with": just my 2 cents↵it would simplify the cmd-line
14:12:55FromDiscord<Ras> as in, if I want to send `4`, the following would be sent over the wire:↵`04 00 00 00`
14:13:17FromDiscord<noiryuh> In reply to @Yardanico "then just do `--cc:clang": also you need to pass `--clang.linkerexe=zig-cc`
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14:13:32FromDiscord<Rika> In reply to @noiryuh "also you need to": you can put that in your nim configuration
14:13:49FromDiscord<noiryuh> and since Zig is not v1.0 yet
14:13:51FromDiscord<Rika> then you dont need to put it all the time
14:13:56FromDiscord<noiryuh> some weird shit is not done↵https://github.com/ziglang/zig/issues/4911
14:13:58FromDiscord<Phil> In reply to @noiryuh "just my 2 cents": Personally I think any hope of having the command line clean is futile given how many options you may want to use
14:14:25FromDiscord<Phil> Therefore as rika stated, the thing to use are nim config or nimble tasks
14:15:19FromDiscord<Ras> (wow, this server could probably use a #help channel, conversations about nim in general and technical questions in the same channel is rather messy)
14:15:44FromDiscord<Rika> a help channel would not help
14:16:05FromDiscord<Rika> if we get multiple help conversations at the same time then its the same problem
14:16:07FromDiscord<Phil> Traffic is manageable either way so we're fine having it in one channel
14:16:52FromDiscord<Phil> If the channel were bustling with 5 folks typing at once all the time I would be more inclined to agree, but for now we're good
14:16:57FromDiscord<Ras> In reply to @Rika "if we get multiple": doesn't seem to be a problem in other programming servers, /shrug
14:17:15FromDiscord<noiryuh> In reply to @Ras "doesn't seem to be": i have seen people asking in general and off topic
14:17:17FromDiscord<Ras> In reply to @Isofruit "If the channel were": fair, i'm just afraid of my single question getting lost in traffic and not getting any responses
14:17:21FromDiscord<Phil> Keep in mind that this channel is bridged to hell and back with other chat technologies
14:17:25FromDiscord<enthus1ast> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=47ua
14:17:35FromDiscord<Ras> thank you
14:17:38FromDiscord<Ras> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=47ub
14:17:40FromDiscord<enthus1ast> but this is sync
14:17:41FromDiscord<noiryuh> In reply to @noiryuh "i have seen people": in other server
14:17:44FromDiscord<Ras> sync is fine
14:17:46FromDiscord<Ras> for now
14:17:54FromDiscord<Ras> i'll burn that async bridge when i get to it 🙂
14:17:59FromDiscord<Rika> In reply to @Ras "doesn't seem to be": you're mistaken
14:18:33FromDiscord<Ras> i was a moderator in pydis, which had... the most traffic a programming discord server had at that time, and i speak from experience :p
14:19:35FromDiscord<Rika> okay
14:19:38FromDiscord<Rika> sure
14:19:45FromDiscord<enthus1ast> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=47uc
14:20:16FromDiscord<Ras> thank you!
14:21:47FromDiscord<enthus1ast> aaand a bug in 8 soc \:)
14:21:54FromDiscord<enthus1ast> it should be int32
14:22:11FromDiscord<Ras> i'm doing .uint32 explicitly anyways
14:22:16FromDiscord<enthus1ast> kk
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15:07:02FromDiscord<Ras> another dumb question - as `sock.recv(4)` seems to return a `string`, how do i convert the string `33110000` to the int 4403?
15:07:11FromDiscord<Ras> ie 0x00001133
15:10:24FromDiscord<dom96> you should be treating `string` as a `seq[byte]`
15:11:05FromDiscord<dom96> there should be a package in nimble that helps you transform a byte sequence to an int
15:11:53FromDiscord<dom96> maybe this one? https://clonkk.github.io/bytesequtils/bytesequtils.html
15:11:57FromDiscord<Ras> iirc when i did that PR for pixie, i recall one of treeform's packages doing magic with bytes
15:11:59FromDiscord<Ras> ah thanks
15:12:01FromDiscord<Ras> i'll have a look
15:13:05FromDiscord<dom96> this can also come in handy https://nim-lang.org/docs/endians.html
15:14:15FromDiscord<Ras> i think i was thinking about `flatty/binny`
15:14:18FromDiscord<Ras> https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/371759389889003532/1008030743894696076/unknown.png
15:15:00FromDiscord<dom96> nice yeah, that's what you want
15:15:23FromDiscord<enthus1ast> @Ras\: there also is this\: https://nim-lang.org/docs/net.html#recv%2CSocket%2Cpointer%2Cint
15:15:31FromDiscord<enthus1ast> proc recv(socket\: Socket; data\: pointer; size\: int)\: int
15:15:38FromDiscord<Phil> In reply to @Ras "iirc when i did": Treeform does a lot of magic everywhere
15:15:58FromDiscord<dom96> use the non-pointer variant if you don't mind some perf downside
15:16:13FromDiscord<dom96> it's better to go for the safe variants than the unsafe (`pointer` etc)
15:16:18FromDiscord<enthus1ast> yeah
15:16:31FromDiscord<enthus1ast> at least validate your stuff \:)
15:16:42FromDiscord<enthus1ast> parse is better than cast in this case
15:17:02FromDiscord<dom96> the Nim doc gen should IMO put any unsafe procs in their own "Unsafe" section
15:19:48FromDiscord<enthus1ast> @dom96\: btw the forum has no user overview etc for mods and admins right?
15:20:14FromDiscord<Ras> In reply to @enthus1ast "parse is better than": welll...
15:20:17FromDiscord<Ras> https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/371759389889003532/1008032247225524334/unknown.png
15:20:37FromDiscord<enthus1ast> \:)
15:20:59FromDiscord<dom96> In reply to @enthus1ast "<@132595483838251008>\: btw the forum": what do you mean?
15:21:20FromDiscord<enthus1ast> to see what users exits with their status etc
15:21:52FromDiscord<dom96> I still don't understand what you mean 😅
15:22:20FromDiscord<enthus1ast> i was quite surprised that there is no real admin view or admin tools
15:22:34FromDiscord<enthus1ast> to see all registered/active users for exampe
15:22:44FromDiscord<dom96> oh yeah, there isn't
15:23:13FromDiscord<dom96> It's not something that is necessary
15:25:05FromDiscord<Ras> should i be worried about this warning
15:25:08FromDiscord<Ras> https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/371759389889003532/1008033470578184293/unknown.png
15:25:56FromDiscord<lantos> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=47ux
15:27:17FromDiscord<lantos> (edit) "https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=47ux" => "https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=47uy"
15:27:54FromDiscord<enthus1ast> @Ras\: it would be better if you do a case
15:29:00FromDiscord<Ras> i don't expect to ever receive an int that isn't defined in the enum though... it's always reflected
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15:29:13FromDiscord<Ras> and i don't send anything that isn't defined
15:29:13FromDiscord<dom96> In reply to @lantos "I thought this would/should": I guess the expression you're trying to pass into the template doesn't work?
15:30:07FromDiscord<enthus1ast> something is off with one of the bridges
15:30:23FromDiscord<enthus1ast> "Could not display this event"
15:30:45FromDiscord<retkid> neqSeq() is 1 index right?
15:30:55FromDiscord<retkid> (edit) "index" => "indexed"
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15:36:10FromDiscord<lantos> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=47uB
15:36:43FromDiscord<Rika> `var i {.inject.}`
15:37:03FromDiscord<dom96> check how the `It` templates are implemented
15:40:09FromDiscord<Ras> let's say i've got a LOT of different types defined https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/371759389889003532/1008037248907878511/unknown.png
15:40:13FromDiscord<Ras> how would i go about exporting everything?
15:40:22FromDiscord<Ras> do i really just have to append `` to every single one?
15:41:22FromDiscord<Rika> yes
15:41:29FromDiscord<Ras> oh dear
15:41:58FromDiscord<enthus1ast> or you get fancy and build a macro for it
15:43:02FromDiscord<enthus1ast> but its also quickly done with vim macros, vscode or multi cursor
15:43:02FromDiscord<enthus1ast> but its also quickly done with vim macros, vscode multi cursor
15:43:10FromDiscord<Ras> yeah i'm just doing it with vim macros
15:45:22FromDiscord<Phil> Pre-emptive warning for the incoming SO Question, that was the self-answered one that contains how to use zig's compiler in nim.↵No need to answer.↵Though I do appreciate if anyone could tell me where window's equivalent to `/usr/local/bin` on Linux is (the place where you put binaries that you want to be able to call in the shell without having to specify their filepath)
15:45:58FromDiscord<enthus1ast> system32
15:46:00FromDiscord<Rika> yes
15:46:02FromDiscord<Rika> was going to say
15:46:05NimEventerNew question by Philipp Doerner: How to use the zig compiler in order to compile nim code?, see https://stackoverflow.com/questions/73345643/how-to-use-the-zig-compiler-in-order-to-compile-nim-code
15:46:05FromDiscord<enthus1ast> but you should put in on the path
15:46:22FromDiscord<Ras> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=47uG
15:46:25FromDiscord<Phil> Then I could add that to the answer since it kinda relies on you writing a shell-script that contains `zig cc $@`
15:46:25FromDiscord<Ras> in powerhell
15:48:38FromDiscord<Phil> So for my somewhat tired brain the correct thing to write in there is ↵> Move zigcc to somewhere on your shell's path, e.g. `/usr/local/bin` on Linux or somewhere on your powershell path on Windows. This is required since the nim compiler does not tolerate spaces in commands that call compilers.↵↵Or should I write "somewhere on $Env:Path" on windows?
15:49:18FromDiscord<Ras> "some directory listed in the PATH environment variable"
15:49:32FromDiscord<enthus1ast> you could also write something like\: "make sure zigcc is on your path"
15:49:36FromDiscord<Ras> in powerhell, you'd do `$Env:Path`, but for cmd.exe IIRC it's `echo %PATH%`
15:50:24FromDiscord<enthus1ast> mhh
15:50:26FromDiscord<Ras> In reply to @Isofruit "So for my somewhat": powershell doesn't really have its own path variable, it inherits it from the system-wide or user environment settings
15:50:31FromDiscord<Ras> i.. think
15:50:36FromDiscord<enthus1ast> the nimble bin dir is on the path already
15:50:39FromDiscord<Ras> i haven't used windows in years..
15:50:42FromDiscord<Phil> So↵> 3. Move zigcc into a directory that is on your PATH environment variable, e.g. `/usr/local/bin` on Linux or somewhere in System32. This is required since the nim compiler does not tolerate spaces in commands that call compilers.↵?
15:50:45FromDiscord<enthus1ast> maybe we could do a small package that just does it
15:50:55FromDiscord<Phil> (edit) "System32." => "System32 on windows."
15:51:26FromDiscord<Ras> In reply to @Isofruit "So > 3.": i don't think you should be dropping anything in system32, i think the recommendation should be to simply update the PATH variable to point to where zigcc is located
15:51:39FromDiscord<enthus1ast> @Phil\: i personally would not put such stuff in system32, but would rather add another directory to the path var
15:52:21FromDiscord<Ras> mind you the way you add entries to PATH is really painful in windows
15:52:26FromDiscord<Phil> > 3. Move `zigcc` into a directory that is on your PATH environment variable, e.g. `/usr/local/bin` on Linux. Alternatively add the path of the directory that contains your `zigcc` script to the PATH variable. This is required since the nim compiler does not tolerate spaces in commands that call compilers.↵There you go
15:52:26FromDiscord<Ras> you have to go through the gui
15:54:19FromDiscord<enthus1ast> @Phil\: the only thing this does is to be a command without whitespace and forwards all to "zig cc ..." right?
15:55:11FromDiscord<Phil> In reply to @enthus1ast "<@180601887916163073>\: the only thing": Pretty much
15:55:36FromDiscord<noiryuh> does converting from `string` to `cstring` need to free memory?
15:55:56FromDiscord<noiryuh> on arc/orc
15:56:16FromDiscord<Phil> I think string to cstring just takes the memory of the string that's already there and cuts of the piece of memory storing the length I'd assume
15:56:58FromDiscord<Phil> I'm not a highly qualified source for this, that's the impression I got after talking to more knowledgeable folks on here about strings and cstrings out of curiosity
15:57:20FromDiscord<noiryuh> humm
15:57:30FromDiscord<noiryuh> i will take a look at generated c
15:58:18FromDiscord<ajusa> Thanks for writing that up @Phil, I see that question come up a lot
15:58:50FromDiscord<Phil> In reply to @ajusa "Thanks for writing that": Funnily enough, it wasn't that much work since I already did that particular write up for how to deploy prologue in an alpine or bitnami/minideb docker container 😄
15:59:16FromDiscord<Phil> Thankfully I do not intend to go after myself for this egregious display of theft of intellectual property or sth
16:00:04FromDiscord<Phil> ~~I may have also annoyed Yard , demotomohiro and a couple others back when I ran into this issue~~
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16:01:01FromDiscord<retkid> how do i check for compiler flags lol
16:01:16FromDiscord<retkid> ie -d:debug
16:01:31FromDiscord<enthus1ast> @Phil\: https://github.com/enthus1ast/zigcc
16:01:48FromDiscord<enthus1ast> if your nimble bin is on your path, you can just install this
16:01:50FromDiscord<enthus1ast> via nimble
16:03:07FromDiscord<Phil> So I install this via nimble and can I then just pass that file as a flag to the compilation command and it'll know how to execute it or will it just magically work when compiling or what's going on?
16:03:21FromDiscord<retkid> defined(x)
16:03:25FromDiscord<retkid> thanks guys for the help
16:03:26FromDiscord<noiryuh> In reply to @noiryuh "i will take a": it returns the pointer to the internal data
16:03:31FromDiscord<enthus1ast> and it prolly is
16:03:31FromDiscord<enthus1ast> would be glad if someone could test it haha
16:03:32FromDiscord<enthus1ast> @retkid\: defined(debug)
16:04:02FromDiscord<enthus1ast> after installation, can you start it via "zigcc" in your terminal?
16:04:16FromDiscord<Phil> Err let me check, I need to throw out the shell script first
16:04:40FromDiscord<retkid> half of this code is debug
16:04:41FromDiscord<retkid> 😭
16:04:55FromDiscord<Phil> In reply to @retkid "half of this code": My condolences, that's how I feel staring at some of my own code
16:04:59FromDiscord<Phil> So many compiletime checks
16:05:28FromDiscord<retkid> well
16:05:36FromDiscord<noiryuh> In reply to @enthus1ast "after installation, can you": it does
16:05:37FromDiscord<retkid> basically half the code is just graphs
16:05:44FromDiscord<retkid> lol
16:05:44FromDiscord<enthus1ast> @retkid\: for debug output i've used this quite some time https://github.com/enthus1ast/nimDbg
16:05:47FromDiscord<Phil> In reply to @enthus1ast "after installation, can you": zigcc exists in my terminal, fascinatingly enough
16:06:20FromDiscord<enthus1ast> @Phil\: @noiryuh yeah, then could you try to compile nim code with zig? (have nothing installed)
16:06:26FromDiscord<retkid> https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/371759389889003532/1008043861463011399/unknown.png
16:06:27FromDiscord<Phil> One sec
16:06:35FromDiscord<retkid> its more like me making a pager to figure it out
16:07:10FromDiscord<retkid> should i include this stuff in release
16:07:52FromDiscord<Phil> In reply to @enthus1ast "<@180601887916163073>\: <@998188037026627696> yeah,": Yep, compiles like a charm
16:07:59FromDiscord<enthus1ast> then nice
16:08:00FromDiscord<Phil> I'll add it to the answer
16:08:05FromDiscord<Phil> On linux, no idea on windows
16:08:13FromDiscord<enthus1ast> imho its easier than to fiddle with shell scripts etc
16:09:10FromDiscord<Phil> In reply to @enthus1ast "imho its easier than": Watch this become your most popular package of all time
16:09:21FromDiscord<enthus1ast> ;\_;
16:09:51FromDiscord<enthus1ast> maybe i should do stuff like "nimIsEven" or so
16:12:59FromDiscord<noiryuh> In reply to @enthus1ast "<@180601887916163073>\: <@998188037026627696> yeah,": welp, if `zigcc` works then it should be fine
16:13:09FromDiscord<noiryuh> ~~`zigc++` when~~
16:13:33FromDiscord<Phil> Anyway, I added it to the SO answer
16:13:39FromDiscord<enthus1ast> zigc++ is a thing?
16:13:51FromDiscord<enthus1ast> or zig c++
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16:13:54FromDiscord<enthus1ast> ?
16:13:57FromDiscord<noiryuh> yes i does
16:14:01FromDiscord<noiryuh> it's `clang++`
16:14:10FromDiscord<noiryuh> (edit) "i" => "it"
16:14:23FromDiscord<enthus1ast> mhhh can i actually have 2 apps in a nimble module?
16:14:47FromDiscord<noiryuh> https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/371759389889003532/1008045967444021258/unknown.png
16:15:21FromDiscord<noiryuh> iirc, there is proposal about `objdump` or `readelf`
16:17:34FromDiscord<enthus1ast> "Error\: invalid module name\: zigc++"
16:17:51FromDiscord<enthus1ast> is zigcpp good?
16:18:12FromDiscord<noiryuh> welp, i mostly see people using C compiler
16:18:28FromDiscord<enthus1ast> i mean, when i'm on it, could do them all
16:19:44FromDiscord<enthus1ast> but imho only releant ones for nim are zigcc and zigcpp
16:19:51FromDiscord<noiryuh> is `eqdestroysystem(NimStringV2)` destroy the internal `NimStrPayload`?
16:19:55FromDiscord<noiryuh> (edit) "is" => "does"
16:20:02FromDiscord<noiryuh> (edit) "`eqdestroysystem(NimStringV2)`" => "`eqdestroysystem(NimStringV2)`"
16:20:20FromDiscord<noiryuh> i can't even find the function definition
16:20:23FromDiscord<Phil> In reply to @enthus1ast "but imho only releant": I think if anybody wants to go into the even fringer edgecase than this particular edgecase of using this compiler, they can figure it out from the SO question
16:31:38FromDiscord<noiryuh> In reply to @noiryuh "does `eqdestroy__system(NimStringV2*)` destroy the": https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/blob/version-1-6/lib/system/strs_v2.nim
16:31:39FromDiscord<noiryuh> damn
16:32:10FromDiscord<enthus1ast> strs\_v2 is used when you compile with arc/orc
16:32:55FromDiscord<Rainbow Asteroids> so I can't cast a string to a seq[char] anymore? 😢
16:33:08FromDiscord<Rainbow Asteroids> how could they do this
16:33:23FromDiscord<Phil> In reply to @Rainbow Asteroids "how could they do": Inhumane cruelty, that's how!
16:34:57FromDiscord<Rainbow Asteroids> !eval echo cast[seq[char]]("Hello, world!")
16:35:00NimBot@['H', 'e', 'l', 'l', 'o', ',', ' ', 'w', 'o', 'r', 'l', 'd', '!']
16:35:02FromDiscord<Rainbow Asteroids> damn
16:35:07FromDiscord<Rainbow Asteroids> yes
16:35:17FromDiscord<Rainbow Asteroids> idiomatic nim code
16:36:41FromDiscord<Phil> In reply to @Rainbow Asteroids "idiomatic nim code": ... but "Hello, world!".toSeq exists!
16:36:56FromDiscord<Rainbow Asteroids> which is faster?
16:37:09FromDiscord<Rainbow Asteroids> ;)
16:37:11FromDiscord<Phil> That is a really good question
16:37:18FromDiscord<Phil> `nimble install benchy`
16:37:24FromDiscord<Phil> There you go
16:37:28FromDiscord<Phil> 😛
16:37:51FromDiscord<Rainbow Asteroids> well, the cast is a reinterpretation of the bytes in memory, so in theory, its O(1)
16:39:26FromDiscord<Rainbow Asteroids> `sequtils.toSeq` uses a for loop, so its O(n)
16:45:21FromDiscord<spoon> any up-to-date bgfx bindings?
16:47:00FromDiscord<!Patitotective> In reply to @Rainbow Asteroids "well, the cast is": casts are unsafe ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
16:47:41FromDiscord<enthus1ast> and imho do not work with js?
16:47:56FromDiscord<Phil> Was rainbow working with js?
16:48:36FromDiscord<Rainbow Asteroids> In reply to @Patitotective "casts are unsafe ¯\_(ツ)_/¯": I am unsafe 🥊
16:48:54FromDiscord<enthus1ast> no it works with js
17:10:20FromDiscord<treeform> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=47ve
17:11:43FromDiscord<enthus1ast> the winapi often let the caller allocate mem, and informs the caller if it needs more mem to complete the task
17:12:31FromDiscord<enthus1ast> or just alloc, and let the caller free it
17:17:12FromDiscord<noiryuh> sent a long message, see http://ix.io/47vh
17:26:15FromDiscord<noiryuh> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=47vj
17:26:34FromDiscord<ieltan> sent a long message, see http://ix.io/47vk
17:30:43FromDiscord<Rika> I’d say it’s ultimately useless because programming paradigm also affects performance (functional vs object oriented vs etc)
17:31:01FromDiscord<dom96> There is too many variables to control and too many fights to have to be consistent
17:31:36FromDiscord<ieltan> In reply to @Rika "I’d say it’s ultimately": Then it can also be part of the model that tries to make programming paradigm consistent
17:31:47FromDiscord<Rika> In reply to @ieltan "Then it can also": Then it’s not idiomatic to the languages
17:32:00FromDiscord<Rika> Languages generally have an idiomatic paradigm
17:32:16FromDiscord<Rika> Haskell for example doesn’t do OOP
17:32:38FromDiscord<dom96> Every language is slow at something and fast at something
17:32:49FromDiscord<SaAnd> and either way, people disagree on what is idiomatic, on what is silly compiler optimization and exactly how to do the other optimizations
17:32:51FromDiscord<dom96> General purpose benchmarks don't work and are a waste of time in my eyes
17:33:03FromDiscord<Rika> Pretty much
17:33:13FromDiscord<Rika> I believe a lot of us hold the same sentiment as Dom here
17:33:31FromDiscord<Rika> By the way this doesn’t mean benchmarking is useless
17:33:39FromDiscord<Rika> Just in case someone got the wrong idea
17:34:18FromDiscord<ieltan> In reply to @Rika "Haskell for example doesn’t": Well I agree with you, but I think if the language are similar enough then it could be worth a shot?
17:34:29FromDiscord<Rika> Performance is, in a broad idea, from design which both language and implementation stem from
17:35:49FromDiscord<Rika> In reply to @ieltan "Well I agree with": If you limit people by “idiomaticity”then they will just push the limits of that
17:36:00FromDiscord<ieltan> In reply to @dom96 "Every language is slow": I was thinking that this sort of benchmarking would reveal what makes the other language fast and maybe we could borrow some of what makes it faster into the other language (if reasonable enough to do it, I don't think that if the difference comes from fundamental design choices that we should copy it of course)
17:36:03FromDiscord<Rika> What is the limit of idiomatic anyway
17:36:09FromDiscord<Rika> Depends on the programmer usually
17:36:32FromDiscord<Rika> In reply to @ieltan "I was thinking that": Most of the time speed comes from fundamental design choice.
17:37:31FromDiscord<Phil> In reply to @Rika "Just in case someone": And here I thought you were about to question my perfectly well spent time to squeeze 0.0001% more performance out of some trivial proc for voidwalker last thursday
17:37:45FromDiscord<Rika> In reply to @Isofruit "And here I thought": Your time your loss
17:37:53FromDiscord<Rika> Ain’t my problem
17:38:01FromDiscord<ieltan> In reply to @Rika "Most of the time": Then fair enough, but this sort of model would make it clear about what problem a language is more appropriate for and also why compared to other languages. In the end the results would be informative anyways.
17:38:23FromDiscord<dom96> I built a web server that makes some heavy sqlite queries in Rust recently. Only now realising that the queries aren't async so they block the freaking process and make it unresponsive to other requests. Would your general benchmarks find that? no.
17:38:33FromDiscord<dom96> Nim would have the same issue btw
17:38:54FromDiscord<ieltan> In reply to @Rika "If you limit people": Which is why I said there are different levels
17:39:24FromDiscord<ieltan> Basically higher levels cannot be compared to lower levels (which is idiomatic, default and all)
17:40:15FromDiscord<Rika> How do you measure that
17:40:37*dnh quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
17:40:44FromDiscord<Rika> and thats not exactly what i mean
17:40:51FromDiscord<dom96> The difference is whether someone actually built a library that is async and makes that fast. For Rust it appears that someone did https://www.reddit.com/r/rust/comments/s5cgbx/dieselasync_an_async_version_of_diesel/
17:40:57FromDiscord<Rika> what i mean is that if you limit people to be idiomatic with a definition like this
17:41:05FromDiscord<Rika> then people will push the limit of your definition
17:41:41FromDiscord<Phil> In reply to @dom96 "The difference is whether": You make me want to write an async version of norm
17:41:47FromDiscord<Rika> i was gonna say
17:41:51FromDiscord<Rika> get to it, phil
17:42:05FromDiscord<dom96> First you'd need to build an async sqlite/mysql/etc driver
17:42:06FromDiscord<Phil> Let me get sync norm to a featureset I want first dangit!
17:42:11FromDiscord<dom96> but yes, that would be awesome
17:42:29FromDiscord<Phil> I want my damn Django Signalling system and I want it in code I don't have to maintain
17:42:33FromDiscord<Rika> imagine the time you're losing from using sync norm
17:42:34FromDiscord<Rika> smh
17:42:34FromDiscord<Phil> I mean I want it available for all
17:42:50FromDiscord<Phil> cough
17:43:17FromDiscord<Phil> To be fair it's not like I'm insanely productive, I'm slowly adding stuff here and there and filling out featuresets and writing up docs
17:43:48FromDiscord<dom96> ffs https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/371759389889003532/1008068368806453444/unknown.png
17:44:07FromDiscord<dom96> See, in this case I probably could have used Python and gotten a faster server
17:44:15FromDiscord<dom96> I bet they have an async sqlite orm
17:44:36FromDiscord<Phil> sent a long message, see http://ix.io/47vm
17:44:53FromDiscord<enthus1ast> @dom96\: the way to build something like this is in the end is "finishing" a future right?
17:44:58FromDiscord<Phil> For 8 months that's kinda small
17:45:17FromDiscord<Rika> more than me
17:45:18FromDiscord<enthus1ast> and then hope that the lib you're using can work with callbacks
17:45:20FromDiscord<Rika> do you know what ive made
17:45:24FromDiscord<Rika> you dont, exactly
17:45:39FromDiscord<Phil> You've answered like a million questions on here
17:45:55FromDiscord<dom96> In reply to @enthus1ast "and then hope that": you should hope that your lib can be integrated into epoll/kqueue/etc
17:46:05FromDiscord<Rika> so what lmao i spend my time here answering questions and thats it
17:46:46FromDiscord<enthus1ast> mh i see↵(@dom96)
17:47:17FromDiscord<dom96> I need to write a blog post about this benchmarking malarkey
17:47:21FromDiscord<Rika> i'm still learning about ioring
17:47:51FromDiscord<dom96> so little time, so much to do https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/371759389889003532/1008069387774853231/unknown.png
17:47:55FromDiscord<Rika> wait is it ioring or io uring
17:47:55FromDiscord<Rika> idk
17:47:57FromDiscord<Rika> im dum
17:48:29FromDiscord<Phil> In reply to @dom96 "The difference is whether": By async driver do you mean there literally is no sqlite code capable of doing async or do you mean nim-code that fires sqlite queries in an async manner?
17:48:48FromDiscord<Rika> In reply to @Isofruit "By async driver do": nim code id assume
17:48:49FromDiscord<ieltan> In reply to @dom96 "I built a web": I haven't programmed much but I dare say that this sounds more of a implementation flaw rather than a language issue, I haven't thought much about bugs when I was thinking about the whole benchmark model thingy. What I was talking about earlier was that using async/threading/etc was an optimization choice not critical for the program to function and proceed normally which yours does need.
17:48:59FromDiscord<Rika> soemone made a rust async driver so sqlite is async capable
17:49:06FromDiscord<dom96> In reply to @Isofruit "By async driver do": the C sqlite library will have a way to use it in an async manner, you need to wrap that and figure out how to integrate it into Nim's event loop
17:49:32FromDiscord<dom96> or rather how to integrate it into the hundreds of Nim async event loops since everyone loves to fork their own :P
17:49:42FromDiscord<Phil> In reply to @dom96 "the C sqlite library": Wait, fuck, I'll need to learn about event loops and not just at one point "oh, err this piece of code will return a Future" and be happy?
17:49:56FromDiscord<dom96> yep
17:50:01FromDiscord<ieltan> The point of the model is to reduce the whole "it's a programmer contest rather than a language one" as much of possible
17:50:14FromDiscord<dom96> I mean... maybe you can get away without learning about event loops
17:50:23FromDiscord<dom96> depends how sqlite exposes its async capabilities
17:50:33FromDiscord<Rika> C async is fun (:
17:50:37FromDiscord<Phil> I barely have JS loop... event loop? in my head
17:51:05FromDiscord<Phil> So (assuming these are the same concept) it's not like I'm completely new to the concept
17:51:25FromDiscord<dom96> wait a minute
17:51:28FromDiscord<dom96> I just realised I'm dumb
17:51:28FromDiscord<Phil> I've just never gone below "oh some proc returns a Promise/Future/Mono/whateverdatatypetheycallit"
17:51:42FromDiscord<dom96> SQLite runs in the process, so its queries are CPU bound
17:51:54FromDiscord<dom96> async won't help you there
17:51:54FromDiscord<ieltan> In reply to @Rika "then people will push": That's not a problem because I said we would have levels to accommodate those people who wanna push it to the max, you just won't be able to compare it to other languages if they haven't also pushed it to the same "level" as yours if you understand what I mean.
17:52:08FromDiscord<Rika> In reply to @ieltan "That's not a problem": again not what i mean
17:52:22FromDiscord<Rika> when you define a level, someone will try their best to push right below your level
17:52:38FromDiscord<ieltan> In reply to @Rika "again not what i": Ah so you think they won't respect the definition basically
17:52:44FromDiscord<ieltan> In reply to @Rika "when you define a": Ah I get it
17:52:45FromDiscord<Phil> In reply to @dom96 "async won't help you": You likely would want it anyway since it likely is useful for postgres and you'd want to be able to swap out dbs
17:52:47FromDiscord<Rika> no, they will maliciously comply
17:53:00FromDiscord<dom96> https://www.sqlite.org/asyncvfs.html
17:53:06FromDiscord<Rika> so you're now wasting time rigorously defining your levels
17:53:09FromDiscord<dom96> Looks like sqlite does offer async I/O but specifically for writing
17:53:15FromDiscord<dom96> and it does so by just creating a thread lol
17:53:21FromDiscord<Rika> or arbitrarily denying entries because "doesnt look idiomatic enough" or smth
17:53:24FromDiscord<ieltan> Yeah that's a legitimate concern indeed I haven't thought about it
17:53:50FromDiscord<ieltan> In reply to @Rika "or arbitrarily denying entries": Do we have a clear understanding of what is idiomatic and what is not?
17:54:02FromDiscord<dom96> you might as well just run spin up a thread for each sqlite query
17:54:17FromDiscord<Rika> no i dont think there is an objective definition for idiomaticity
17:54:40FromDiscord<Rika> its kinda like defining "polite english"
17:54:44FromDiscord<Phil> In reply to @dom96 "you might as well": Well, as stated you'd likely want the API either way.
17:54:45FromDiscord<Rika> and "casual english"
17:54:51FromDiscord<Rika> it depends on the user
17:54:59FromDiscord<dom96> In reply to @Isofruit "Well, as stated you'd": sure, to be consistent with the other DBs
17:55:12FromDiscord<dom96> the sqlite would then just run in a new thread
17:55:45FromDiscord<dom96> Maybe since sqlite works that way anyway you might as well run all DB queries in their own thread
17:55:55FromDiscord<ieltan> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=47vq
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17:56:14FromDiscord<ieltan> I just saw that definition is from 2008
17:56:15FromDiscord<ieltan> Lol
17:56:40FromDiscord<dom96> thinking about it an async db driver would be pretty simple in that case
17:57:19FromDiscord<Rika> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=47vr
17:57:30FromDiscord<ieltan> Yup
17:57:59FromDiscord<Rika> so yeah its hard to tell
17:58:21FromDiscord<Rika> and sure you can fudge it but i think its also hard to fudge it as well
17:59:03FromDiscord<dom96> In reply to @dom96 "thinking about it an": so go build one @Phil so we can get it on TechEmpower's benchmarks and win all categories :P
18:00:44FromDiscord<enthus1ast> regarding the zigcc thing, it does not work on windows, because the nim compiler calls zigcc.exe but nimble creates a zigcc and zigcc.cmd file arrgggh
18:00:58FromDiscord<enthus1ast> so zigcc.exe is an invalid command ;\_;
18:01:13FromDiscord<dom96> zigcc is a Nimble package?
18:01:20FromDiscord<enthus1ast> just done it
18:01:51FromDiscord<Phil> In reply to @dom96 "so go build one": I find it fascinating that you guys have this hope in my code when it my connection pooling package couldn't pass a code review from beef even at a glance
18:02:07FromDiscord<enthus1ast> any idea how to make this work?
18:02:09FromDiscord<enthus1ast> on windows?
18:02:12FromDiscord<dom96> In reply to @Isofruit "I find it fascinating": I believe in you
18:02:49FromDiscord<dom96> In reply to @enthus1ast "on windows?": can you give Nim an extension for the compiler it calls?
18:02:53FromDiscord<dom96> Try passing "zigcc.cmd" or something
18:02:56FromDiscord<Rika> In reply to @Isofruit "I find it fascinating": doesnt matter if its nice looking as long as it quick bro
18:02:59FromDiscord<Rika> its a benchmark
18:03:16FromDiscord<Rika> then again ig some people are gonna read the code and bad code isnt a good representative
18:03:34FromDiscord<enthus1ast> yes
18:03:38FromDiscord<enthus1ast> this works
18:03:42FromDiscord<dom96> In reply to @Rika "then again ig some": hah, most won't read it. Vast majority will see it's number 1 and then spread the "Nim is fastest" news :D
18:03:46FromDiscord<enthus1ast> ahh to many workarounds imho
18:04:02FromDiscord<dom96> workarounds is what makes the world round
18:04:12FromDiscord<dom96> or something, lol
18:04:39FromDiscord<enthus1ast> can i tell nimble to place the exe in .nimble/bin ?
18:04:57FromDiscord<dom96> nope
18:05:37FromDiscord<enthus1ast> is the .cmd also created on linux?
18:05:59FromDiscord<dom96> nope
18:06:08FromDiscord<dom96> it's only because Windows doesn't support symlinks properly
18:06:09FromDiscord<enthus1ast> \:D
18:06:13FromDiscord<enthus1ast> yes
18:06:16FromDiscord<ieltan> In reply to @Rika "and sure you can": Well I think a very experienced programmer would be able to determine whether or not some piece of code is idiomatic or not but yeah I get it, it's not a very robust system
18:06:29FromDiscord<ieltan> I think there's a way, but eh
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18:18:40FromDiscord<dom96> looks like actix has a nice way to offload db queries to another thread already https://www.reddit.com/r/rust/comments/kvnq36/does_anyone_know_how_to_use_an_auxiliary_worker/gizijm5/
18:18:55FromDiscord<dom96> it should be that easy in Nim too
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18:19:35FromDiscord<dom96> sadly the thread support just isn't there
18:20:08FromDiscord<dom96> last I hear we were gonna grab yglukhov's threadpool into the stdlib but then it didn't seem to happen
18:20:12FromDiscord<dom96> (edit) "hear" => "heard"
18:20:34FromDiscord<Phil> I wonder what Araq is working on
18:23:26FromDiscord<dom96> same
18:24:40FromDiscord<haxscramper> the next book
18:25:12FromDiscord<dom96> nimskull book when
18:27:05FromDiscord<haxscramper> when we have a compiler that works and not "works for me"
18:27:10FromDiscord<haxscramper> (edit) "me"" => "me (TM)""
18:27:18FromDiscord<Phil> Needs more TM
18:27:22FromDiscord<Phil> 2/10
18:27:25FromDiscord<Phil> Would not compile again
18:28:11FromDiscord<enthus1ast> nimskull needs python to install right?
18:29:48FromDiscord<haxscramper> more or less, although `koch.py` is a convenience wrapper around main koch
18:30:20FromDiscord<enthus1ast> wondering why since back then when i saw it
18:30:36FromDiscord<haxscramper> I think it would be possible to build from csources as well, but I that's more of a CI/deployment question, I'm not up-to-date on this topic
18:30:49FromDiscord<treeform> In reply to @dom96 "You can either `GC_ref`": GC_ref works on strings?
18:31:07FromDiscord<treeform> if ref/unref works that's great news
18:31:31FromDiscord<treeform> I though because it its a var object it did not have ref/unref
18:31:36FromDiscord<treeform> like ref objects do
18:32:19FromDiscord<dom96> whoa, that's an old message
18:32:44FromDiscord<dom96> strings aren't "var objects", not sure that even is a category
18:33:03FromDiscord<dom96> but yes, you can gc_ref a string: https://nim-lang.org/docs/system.html#GC_ref%2Cstring
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18:46:20FromDiscord<Phil> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=47vH
18:47:10FromDiscord<Phil> (edit) "https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=47vH" => "https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=47vI"
18:49:17FromDiscord<dom96> are you actually using multiple threads?
18:50:16FromDiscord<dom96> if not consider `--threadAnalysis:off`
18:50:28FromDiscord<dom96> (disables gc safety)
18:50:46FromDiscord<Phil> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=47vJ
18:51:12FromDiscord<dom96> well, you might want to consider avoiding threads :D
18:51:19FromDiscord<Phil> Denied!
18:51:23FromDiscord<dom96> bbl
18:51:34FromDiscord<Ras> is there a tutorial for async nim? Mind you I've only ever done async in Python, and on a pretty primitive level
18:51:43FromDiscord<Phil> You don't solve a problem by avoiding it! Something here is buggy and I want to fix it squint
18:52:20FromDiscord<Phil> particularly since I don't have this problem with std/db_sqlite.exec but just because I'm doing this from ndb shouldn't magically cause something that causes the compiler to ignore my precious "Shut up about gc-safety" command
18:52:34FromDiscord<Ras> In reply to @Ras "is there a tutorial": I'm really comfortable with `fork()` and the classic threading model, though
19:02:35FromDiscord<enthus1ast> this maybe https://ssalewski.de/nimprogramming.html#_code_execution_with_asyncawait @Ras
19:02:46FromDiscord<Ras> thanks
19:09:15FromDiscord<Phil> Waaaaaait
19:10:41FromDiscord<Phil> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=47vM
19:11:19FromDiscord<Phil> And if so, since they apparently manage to overcome cast-gcsafe, how do I uber shut them up?
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19:21:30FromDiscord<Phil> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=47vS
19:21:50FromDiscord<Phil> (edit) "https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=47vS" => "https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=47vT"
19:22:34FromDiscord<Phil> For those on matrix (not sure if you see the edit): I removed the 2 pragmas `raises: []` and `tags: []` from the body proc
19:31:32FromDiscord<SaAnd> looks good over here \:)
19:32:51FromDiscord<Phil> I'm still not incredibly happy that I had to manipulate the ndb lib code on my machine to make the warnings go away =/
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19:34:52FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> You can just cast the gcunsafeness away↵(@Phil)
19:35:09FromDiscord<Phil> I tried beef!
19:35:10FromDiscord<Phil> I tried!
19:35:20FromDiscord<SaAnd> ^↵(@Phil)
19:35:23FromDiscord<Phil> I used so much cast gc-safeness it should've been a cast-iron block!
19:35:42FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Is this a threaded program?
19:36:00FromDiscord<Phil> webserver backend basically, with threads on
19:36:18FromDiscord<Phil> technically i don't need it but I keep it on for learning purposes for exactly teaching me to deal with stuff like this
19:36:44FromDiscord<Phil> (I say technically because the server this binary runs on in the end only has 1 thread and like 1 GB Ram)
19:36:50FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> remove the `gcsafe` annotation on the proc
19:37:33FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> I believe annotating gcsafe with threads on forces the procedure to be gcsafe and it doesnt play well with cast
19:37:35FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> I could be wrong
19:38:13FromDiscord<Phil> The sad thing is that the final proc that calls all of this, the proc that gets called to handle the request
19:38:16FromDiscord<Phil> must be gcsafe
19:38:45FromDiscord<Phil> So this specific proc may not necessarily need to be gc-safe, but the one 3 layers up the call stack does
19:38:50FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Nim infers gc safety
19:39:05FromDiscord<Phil> Yeh and it infers wrongly if I don't force it
19:39:24FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Well you have a bug so time to make a min repro
19:39:35FromDiscord<Phil> dangit
20:05:34FromDiscord<Bubblie> Is there a va_list equivalent in nim
20:07:07FromDiscord<huantian> like `varargs`?
20:07:16FromDiscord<enthus1ast> varargs maybe?
20:26:47FromDiscord<dom96> In reply to @Isofruit "*technically* i don't need": honestly the gc safety stuff doesn't deserve learning
20:26:55FromDiscord<dom96> I'm pretty sure it will be gone with arc/orc
20:27:08FromDiscord<dom96> (but someone correct me if I'm wrong)
20:27:37FromDiscord<Phil> In reply to @dom96 "honestly the gc safety": I mean I'm using ORC and it's still there so unless it's a planned feature I'd disagree
20:30:42FromDiscord<dom96> well there is https://github.com/nim-lang/RFCs/issues/142
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21:23:09FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Oh is it `{.gcsafe.}:` and not `{.cast(gcsafe).}:` 😄
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22:44:15FromDiscord<Bubblie> In reply to @huantian "like `varargs`?": Ill look into that :)
22:44:34FromDiscord<Bubblie> Its just weird cause the bindings im using have va_list which I actually dont use much in C in general either
22:44:41FromDiscord<Bubblie> Thank you tho
23:28:57FromDiscord<amadan> Is it possible to make a NimNode with a certain line and column?
23:38:41FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> You can only copyLineInfo
23:38:50FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Consider using the `erroor`/`hint`/`warn` procedures in std/macros
23:39:37FromDiscord<huantian> The world if fmt could inject errors into the steing
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23:59:33FromDiscord<!Patitotective> In reply to @huantian "The world if fmt": wdym?