<< 13-10-2016 >>
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01:01:36dmi0hello, is there a way to complie nim code from within a nim proc? can somebody point out the documentation available
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04:14:27ftsf_dmi0, i don't know how but i suspect it is possible since nim is written in nim, i guess you can import the compiler somehow
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07:43:37flyxdmi0: it would be far easier to just call the `nim` command in a shell from within your nim code.
07:46:02gokrAraq: Here?
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07:58:52FromGitter<dom96> You won't be able to import the compiler at compile-time. What flyx suggested is the only way: staticExec("nim c file.nim")
07:59:46flyxdom96: well to be fair, he didn't ask about compile time.
08:00:20FromGitter<dom96> oh, I misread.
08:06:15Araqdmi0: you can import compiler/nimeval.nim
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08:06:28Araqwhich contains proc execute*(program: string)
08:06:52Araqfor more flexible stuff, you need to dig into the compiler's API, nimble does the same thing
08:07:01Araqso read nimble's source code for good examples
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08:52:42cheatfateAraq, why people so angry and rape your compiler in so perverted ways https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/issues/4891?
08:54:19cheatfatei thought variables could not be initialized with block statement
08:55:17Araqcheatfate: looks rather simple to fix though :-)
08:56:10cheatfateAraq, so it this legal?
08:56:26cheatfateit = is
08:57:46Araqwhy wouldn't it?
08:58:35cheatfateThe block statement is a means to group statements to a (named) block. Inside the block, the break statement is allowed to leave the block immediately. A break statement can contain a name of a surrounding block to specify which block is to leave.
08:59:13cheatfatewhat value will be assigned to variable if `break` happens inside of block
08:59:25cheatfate?
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09:07:38Araqthe default value?
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09:12:36cheatfateAraq, it looks like hardly undocumented feature
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12:13:12FromGitter<BontaVlad> Hi everybody. How can I read the last 26 bytes from a binary file stream, in Python I would do fs.seek(-26).
12:16:08flyxBontaVlad: setFilePos(f, getFileSize(f) - 26)
12:16:43flyxBontaVlad: or directly readBytes/readChars, they take a start pos
12:30:15*kunev_ is now known as kunev
12:39:46FromGitter<BontaVlad> Great, thx a lot flyx
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12:55:03FromGitter<ephja> how would you mock functions?
12:56:05FromGitter<ephja> possibly without modifying the module in question
12:57:25FromGitter<ephja> the concept of mocking seems to apply to classes most of the time
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13:01:26Araqyou don't "mock" stuff. you have a clean separation between code and data and thus can create test data to test your code.
13:02:09Araqmocking is a design smell.
13:02:37FromGitter<ephja> ok
13:02:45FromGitter<ephja> I need to write more non-trivial software
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13:06:46FromGitter<ephja> > I need to write more non-trivial software
13:07:06FromGitter<ephja> just testing. gitter has some neat features
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13:24:38chemist69can the parameters from a varargs list be made modifiable by the procedure?
13:24:46chemist69like this: proc newTree(trees: var varargs[Tree])
13:24:59chemist69but that does not work
13:25:19FromGitter<ephja> f# is a nice language. .NET relies a lot on polymorphism though, but maybe the runtime overhead can be optimized away in some cases
13:29:23flyxchemist69: maybe varargs[var Tree]? but I am not sure that would work either
13:29:46FromGitter<ephja> I don't think so
13:30:04Araqchemist69: use a macro for this.
13:30:07chemist69no, it doesn't
13:30:17chemist69Araq: ok
13:31:44chemist69I like this: where in other languages the answer would simply be `no`, in Nim it is: `use a macro for this.` :-)
13:38:36FromGitter<ephja> I enjoy the functional aspects of F#, but I would still rather use Nim because of the metaprogramming features and for a few other reasons
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14:04:10FromGitter<ephja> enum pattern matching in f# is lacking in some ways if I'm not mistaken
14:09:13Araqthere are Nimble packages to give Nim better pattern matching via macros.
14:10:10AraqI still consider this design superior as real pattern matching requires unification and that is hard to builtin into a language
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14:56:54FromGitter<ephja> I was just referring to the lacking exhaustiveness in f# (requires a wildcard pattern which will account both for unspecified enumerators and "invalid" values)
14:57:05FromGitter<ephja> but I'll take a look at those libs in any case
15:02:09FromGitter<ephja> oh right, I used "patty" at some point. I can't find any other relevant libs
15:15:44euantorAm I right in thinking that there's no way to import a costant from a header file (but you can import a variable or a proc in its place)?
15:16:18euantorBasically, I want to import `GUID_DEVINTERFACE_COMPORT` from `ntddser.h` on Windows
15:16:26euantor(found here: https://sourceforge.net/u/earnie/winapi/winapi/ci/master/tree/include/ddk/ntddser.h#l38)
15:16:40euantor(or here: https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/hardware/ff545821(v=vs.85).aspx)
15:17:47euantorThis is my current approach https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/id0Uqfge/
15:18:31euantorThough D1 seems to be an `i64` to me, but it's of type `i32 in winlean...
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15:41:23Araqeuantor: that is correct, no const imports
15:41:40euantorThanks Araq
15:41:58euantorTrying to use `SetupDiGetClassDevs`, it's a right pain to use
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15:49:17UNIcodeXIs there a way that I could parallelize this calculation, such that it makes use of as many cores as the machine has available? https://bpaste.net/show/20a88735d144
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16:54:17dom96Any Googlers here?
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17:10:19euantorAs in people who work there?
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17:18:27*libman theories that a very high percentage of programmers have at least one friend who works at Google.
17:18:57libman*theoriZes
17:22:37Araqlibman: #? braces parsing mode coming soon, enjoy :P
17:23:28*libman very strongly prefers Pythonic syntax. I was talking purely about marketing.
17:24:39dom96euantor: yes
17:25:23libmanChameleon "skins" for Nim that make it look like Swift, D, or a softer gentler Python (implicit var, automatic type conversion, etc), all parsed to the same AST as Nim.
17:27:50federico3dom96: why? You wanted to show them http://www.gwan.com/blog/20160405.html ? :)
17:36:36Araqautomatic type conversions? like what?
17:36:48Araqpython doesn't convert int to strings either
17:41:32dom96I think that these "skins" will be seen as a disadvantage by many programmers unfortunately.
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17:57:29Araqdom96: yeah, I wanna do a poll about it
17:57:55dom96cool
17:58:04Araqthough actually "seen as disadvantage by many programmers" is a good argument for it...
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17:59:59SalewskiAraq, do we get an END keyword as in Ruby too? Or only curly braces?
18:00:24Araqonly curlies and they are mandatory, not optional
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18:02:46SalewskiBut end keyword is not so ugly as braces, and Ruby people may like it.
18:04:56SalewskiBut of course, in early days there was a Python variant available with an end keyword, but not many people used that.
18:05:18AraqSalewski: that would be the 'endx' skin, not the 'braces' skin
18:06:29AraqUNIcodeX: yes and it's not hard, but see https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=sum+x+from+0+to+(100000000-1)++sin(x)
18:06:51SalewskiYes. For me current indentation is fine. Jehan once said that he would favor an end keyword.
18:07:08AraqI wouldn't trust the CPU's floating point to give any meaningful result for this
18:07:56UNIcodeXAraq, thanks. i'm just trying to learn Nim, so I'm trying to jump into semi-practical examples to get an idea of the type of speedup one could expect.
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18:10:13AraqUNIcodeX: see tests/parallel/tpi.nim for how to do these things
18:10:45Araqproc piU shows spawn + flow vars
18:11:08AraqpiS shows the parallel statement with spawn
18:12:07UNIcodeXAraq, thanks
18:12:13SalewskiAraq, does it make sense to call GC_fullCollect when ever we wait for user input? For example in chess, when computer has done its move and is waiting for human player?
18:12:46SalewskiSo CPU is idle
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18:15:05Araqyou can give hints like this but GC_step is better than GC_fullCollect
18:15:24Araqand idle CPUs are good, saves energy
18:16:47SalewskiOK, I will consider GC_step. Thanks.
18:18:10SalewskiBye.
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18:22:37FromGitter<ephja> people find it more difficult to read code without {...} for example even with experience?
18:27:49FromGitter<ephja> will code on websites end up having a particular syntax other than the default one?
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18:31:16Araqephja: I know no such studies.
18:31:40Araqpersonally I have spent years with the braces and they never stopped being unnecessary and annoying for me
18:32:55baabelfishI would also love to see some ((()()))()()))) action in nim :P
18:32:56Araqall they do is take up screen space
18:33:09baabelfish</joke>
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19:04:40UNIcodeXAraq, I'm not sure I did it correctly. https://bpaste.net/show/ccf1959442d0
19:05:16UNIcodeXi got those headings backwards....
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19:05:36UNIcodeXthe regular returns in < 20 seconds. the threaded is still running.
19:07:01libmanI agree that braces are useless, but more syntax "skins" => more users => more contribs => more sushi.
19:07:50UNIcodeXI hate braces as well... Unfortunately cannot escape it as i must deal with JS.
19:09:43FromGitter<ephja> I wouldn't mind being able to render indentation with an arbitrary amount of spaces
19:10:02FromGitter<ephja> I can't parse certain long 2-space indent blocks very well
19:11:54AraqUNIcodeX: it's stupid code ;-)
19:12:10UNIcodeXthanks....
19:12:40UNIcodeXperhaps a tip on how to make it not stupid? or are you just saying the exercise is stupid?
19:14:25libmanEverything is relative. I bet I can write code so stupid it will automatically elevate UNIcodeX's code to "excellent". :P
19:14:56UNIcodeXit's almost a straight rip from the documentation...
19:15:57Araqjust a sec
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19:22:12AraqUNIcodeX: now. your implementation completely ignores the overhead of 'spawn'
19:22:27Araqa 'sin' call is cheap, it's a CPU instruction in fact.
19:22:42Araqyou need to do lots an lots of sin calls on the same core
19:22:53Araqand then sum the results
19:23:18Araqwhen you have N cpus, spawn N*2 calls (rule of thumb)
19:23:28Araqand sum the N*2 results
19:23:35UNIcodeXso the multi-threaded code will never be as fast as the single threaded code, due to sin() being cheap to run?
19:23:59Araqno, you'll get a speedup of N, when you do it right
19:24:45UNIcodeXhow do i spawn N*2 calls??
19:26:28Araqcpuinfo.nim has countProcessors()
19:26:32Araqthat's your N
19:27:17FromGitter<mbarkhau> Hi there, is it appropriate to ask nub questions here?
19:27:19Araqyou need to split the range 0..x into N disjoint ranges
19:28:20Araqmbarkhau: yes if you don't mind sometimes mildly unfriendly replies from me
19:28:39FromGitter<mbarkhau> fair enough
19:28:53FromGitter<mbarkhau> is there a way to do compile time assertions ?
19:29:17FromGitter<mbarkhau> as a form of very light weight unit test
19:29:57UNIcodeXmbarkhau, Araq can be grumpy ^^, but knows his stuff. :)
19:30:36FromGitter<mbarkhau> I think I can handle it
19:30:40Araqmbarkhau: that's mostly just
19:30:41Araqstatic:
19:30:46Araq assert(x == y)
19:32:43flyxa static assertion is not a unit test. unit tests exist because there are too few static assertions.
19:32:47FromGitter<mbarkhau> awesome, works!
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20:22:14FromGitter<mbarkhau> hmm, I can't figure out what this error message means: https://glot.io/snippets/ejc487edgn
20:22:26FromGitter<mbarkhau> `Error: conversion from 2 to [0..1] is invalid`
20:24:55cheatfatembarkhau: nim's bool accept only 0 or 1, not compatible with c way
20:25:06FromGitter<mbarkhau> ahhhh
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20:27:51FromGitter<mbarkhau> is there a section in the docs somewhere on truthiness
20:27:57FromGitter<mbarkhau> ?
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20:29:45libmanmbarkhau: you'll need an Epistemology 101 textbook. Then read Karl Popper.
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20:31:16FromGitter<aboisvert> there are no automatic conversions to boolean, AFAIK
20:31:17FromGitter<aboisvert> http://nim-lang.org/docs/manual.html#type-relations-convertible-relation
20:32:11FromGitter<aboisvert> so `truthiness` is not a thing in Nim, there is only bool
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20:32:46FromGitter<mbarkhau> ok, fair enough
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20:48:28FromGitter<mbarkhau> was there once a {.pure.} pragma ?
20:49:16FromGitter<mbarkhau> presumably replaced by {.noSideEffect.}?
20:52:32FromGitter<mbarkhau> hmm, nope it seems not: http://nim-lang.org/docs/manual.html#pragmas-pure-pragma
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20:59:02FromGitter<mbarkhau> interesting: It is a static error to mark a proc/iterator to have no side effect if the compiler cannot verify this.
21:00:36FromGitter<mbarkhau> what's the point then of setting the pragma, if the compiler can determine for itself that a proc has no side effects?
21:02:03FromGitter<mbarkhau> hmm, I guess to make sure you aren't kidding yourself when you break one of the rules
21:02:15Araqexactly
21:02:39Araqplus for .importc'ed procs .noSideEffect is not checked, it's assumed the annotation is correct
21:03:16FromGitter<mbarkhau> ok then I say +1 for this: Future directions: `func` may become a keyword and syntactic sugar for a proc with no side effects
21:04:30Araqeverybody loves this idea, but 'func' could also mean "everything readonly", for instance
21:05:03Araqwhich we also can infer
21:06:10FromGitter<mbarkhau> but there's no `readOnly` pragma is there?
21:06:28FromGitter<mbarkhau> maybe I misunderstand
21:06:44Araqit's spelt 'writes: []'
21:07:29Araqbut it's not documented
21:07:35Araqand not yet in Nim
21:10:43FromGitter<mbarkhau> I see, well I'm sure you know what you're doing
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21:25:24FromGitter<mbarkhau> any chance of adopting this?: https://glot.io/new/nim
21:25:32FromGitter<mbarkhau> arg sorry
21:25:43FromGitter<mbarkhau> https://glot.io/snippets/ejc60fiax8
21:25:46FromGitter<mbarkhau> there we go
21:26:18FromGitter<mbarkhau> for ye old pythonistas
21:26:19Araqit's strutils.repeat or something
21:26:46AraqI don't like it since it doesn't default to the space
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21:27:02Araqwhich is the only use case I care about
21:31:08Araqmbarkhau, btw it's 0..<num
21:31:24FromGitter<mbarkhau> yeah, I noticed
21:34:21FromGitter<mbarkhau> I think half-open intervals as python does it is better though
21:34:46Araqyeah, I've heard that before. It's not better, it's broken.
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21:34:57FromGitter<mbarkhau> i think in coffeescript you can get them with 0...num
21:35:34Araqit assumes there actually is an upper bound that exists and that you don't care about. Not true for enums.
21:39:11FromGitter<mbarkhau> I would say the fact that your doing 1..n and 0..n-1 so often in strutils is an indication that there may be something to the argument
21:40:23FromGitter<gokr> Just a heads up - this has been discussed at length earlier. I don't really recall all the arguments.
21:41:57FromGitter<mbarkhau> was the option of having a seperate range operator discussed?
21:42:33FromGitter<gokr> Don't recall
21:42:48FromGitter<mbarkhau> .. (two dots) open ⏎ ... (three dots) half open
21:43:23FromGitter<mbarkhau> as here: http://coffeescript.org/#slices
21:44:09FromGitter<mbarkhau> half open is also the behaviour of the javascript slice function
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21:45:24FromGitter<mbarkhau> also interesting: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6601515
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21:54:56FromGitter<mbarkhau> well, I will say one thing, it's nice that it can be overridden: https://glot.io/snippets/ejc6pzhdd4
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22:15:26FromGitter<mbarkhau> ahh, is the `..<` operator equivalent?
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22:18:15FromGitter<mbarkhau> `echo <8 == 7`
22:18:21FromGitter<mbarkhau> fascinating
22:19:12FromGitter<mbarkhau> then I guess I'll use that
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