<< 13-12-2015 >>
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01:27:10cryzedSo I got kind of bored with the markdown parser...
01:27:22cryzedtrying my hand at a simple snake for now using the sdl2 bindings
01:27:44cryzedThe problem wasn't lexing or parsing the tokens in the end -- it's writing the regular expressions
01:31:44cryzedhttps://gist.github.com/cryzed/7e3e3fe2286e48866228 if anyone wants to continue where I left off with my code (although I doubt it)
01:40:53cryzedIs there possibly something similar to Python's decorators in Nim? I would like to mark some procs with certain requirements, i.e. a certain init function must have been called before they can be used -- is there something like that, possibly using Nim's macro system?
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02:34:46cryzeddom96, some more symbol forwarding in certain modules seems like a good idea for example
02:34:52cryzedhtmlparser comes to mind
02:34:57cryzedor option for nre
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03:40:24onionhammercryzed ive asked for such a feature before.. constructors
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03:48:35cryzedonionhammer, how are constructors related to what I have said? I don't follow
03:49:12cryzedonionhammer, I am talking about decorators -- as in easily wrap other functions in different functions
03:50:25cryzedonionhammer, to have a "constructor" you can simply define a type, write a newMyType func that initializes that creates and initializes that type using the implicitly created type constructor and then define procs with the first argument of your type
03:50:37cryzedthere you have your class/object with constructors -- but that's not what I meant
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05:01:43onionhammercryzed, you said "certain init function must have been called before they can be used"
05:01:59onionhammercryzed I interpreted this as "the proc expects the object to be initialized properly"
05:02:19onionhammerright now nim has no guarantees someone didnt just create an instance of a type without going through the so-called 'constructor'
05:02:23onionhammerit's not a true constructor
05:02:32onionhammerso the object can be in any state the caller wants
05:03:39onionhammerwhen I say "constructor" i mean that the only way to get one of those objects is to actually invoke one of the constructors for that type
05:03:51onionhammerexcepting perhaps value types in an array
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12:53:07cryzedonionhammer, why is such a constructor needed though? If you make it clear in the documentation "use this constructor or you are on your own" I don't see the problem
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13:02:58cryzedAraq, why are the destroy procs in the SDL2 bindings overloaded for most stuff, but explicit for texture and renderer?
13:03:20cryzedOh wait, nevermind. They are just at a different place
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13:17:43dom96cryzed: In regards to your markdown parser, I personally wouldn't use regular expressions to do the parsing.
13:17:56cryzeddom96, just do it character by character?
13:18:00dom96yeah
13:18:13cryzedI thought about that too, I might reconsider doing it that way -- you are right
13:18:35cryzedregex probably make more sense for more structured langauges with actual error states for the syntax
13:18:40cryzedeverything is valid in markdown
13:21:22cryzeddom96, I did something like this: https://gist.github.com/cryzed/a0c9f99ffb58f4bc58da
13:21:32cryzedit's caller logger.nim and I import it in various modules
13:21:58cryzeddoes this do what I expect it to? I.e. create no-ops in my regular code when I use any of the overwritten templates, and only create code when I use enableLogging?
13:22:12cryzedI am planning to possibly use these in game code, so I need a way to disable them entirely with no overhead whatsoever
13:22:18cryzed*called
13:24:34dom96cryzed: yeah, looks good.
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13:34:01cryzeddom96, :)
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17:44:46matkukiAre there any tutorials on concepts?
17:53:14reactormonkmatkuki, they're still somewhat buggy IIRC
17:54:08matkukireactormonk: Oh, ok.
17:55:06gmpreussnernot true. concepts work really well now. Araq put in a lot of fixes in the past weeks.
17:55:14reactormonkgmpreussner, cool
17:55:25reactormonkmatkuki, think of typeclasses. That's a good start.
17:55:31gmpreussnerthe remaining problems are in the GitHub issues list, but there aren't many left.
17:55:43reactormonkconcepts can do a more, but typeclasses are the basics.
17:56:25ephjareally?
17:56:45reactormonkhm?
17:56:58matkukireactormonk: I have never used concepts before, any links on good tutorial docs in other languages?
17:57:30ephjaif concepts do work well then that means that many relevant issues haven't been closed yet
17:57:41ephjasolved issues to be exact
17:58:21reactormonkmatkuki, yeah, look up typeclasses and/or interfaces. The downside of interfaces as opposed to typeclasses is that interfaces need to be implemented when the object is open, e.g. in the class definition. typeclasses for a type can be defined anywhere.
17:59:06matkukiThanks, will do.
17:59:20gmpreussnerephja: there are remaining issues, to be sure, but in my extensive use of concepts i haven't found many that were blockers. most use cases are covered, and much of the rest has acceptable workarounds
17:59:32reactormonk,ahttp://learnyouahaskell.com/types-and-typeclasses
17:59:34reactormonkmatkuki, http://learnyouahaskell.com/types-and-typeclasses
18:00:01matkukireactormonk: Great!
18:00:36ephjagmpreussner: what about var parameters? they are very common
18:00:59ephjacan they be worked around without having to rewrite everything once 'var' in concepts work correctly?
18:02:30ephjaI don't recall seeing anything resembling concept fixes
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18:32:32krux_How do I cast an array[4, array[4, float64]] to a ptr float64 ? I need this to pass it into a c function
18:33:11krux_value[0][0].addr doesn't compile, it says there is no address
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18:46:09krux_anybody here?
18:51:58ephjakrux_: it must be a var
18:52:47ephjawasn't unsafeAddr supposed to work on immutable variables? but that doesn't seem to be the case
18:55:32krux_despite the fact that I don't know why let varibles don't work, the problem is something else
18:55:57krux_value[0].addr works, but it is the wrong type
18:56:21krux_value[0][0].addr would be the right type, but the compiler says: expression has no address
18:58:50ephjaworks for me
18:59:12krux_what works for you?
19:00:01krux_ephja: does value[0][0].addr work for you?
19:00:13ephjax.addr, x[0].addr and x[0][0].addr, where x is "var x: array[4, array[4, float64]]"
19:00:32krux_what is your nim version?
19:00:55ephjaNim Compiler Version 0.12.1 (2015-12-03) [Linux: amd64]
19:01:16krux_ok I have 0.12.0
19:01:21krux_maybe that is the reason
19:02:02ephjaand this doesn't work? https://gist.github.com/ephja/945811bf28f039c54504
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19:26:23krux_ephja: actually it is funny, because it does work. The problem must be something else
19:26:41krux_I am working with glm and would like to pass matrid to glLoadMatrixd
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20:53:28onionhammercryzed why? because people dont read documentation, and its better to get an error at compile time than at runtime
20:53:42mat4hi all
20:53:42cryzedI see
20:53:45cryzedmat4, hi
20:54:27cryzedonionhammer, couldn't you always set a hidden attribute for your type "instantiated" that only gets set by your newX method?
20:54:40cryzedthat way you could check manually I suppose
20:54:44onionhammerthat would be a runtime error
20:54:47cryzedbut it's a workaround definitely, yes
20:54:52cryzedyeah
20:55:39cryzedI don't think you'll get your wish unfortunately -- the release is nearing and this seems like a big feature to simply patch in
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21:02:11onionhammerheres the thread i was referring to if ur curious http://forum.nim-lang.org/t/703
21:06:51onionhammerimo my proposal for module-only initialization is all we'd really need
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21:07:40onionhammeri.e. give lib authors the ability to restrict callers from invoking the constructor syntax for a type they defined in their module
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21:28:15cryzedonionhammer, thanks for linking it
21:28:20cryzedseems like a controversial topic for sure
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21:41:50kulelu88what do you guys think of #crystal-lang?
21:42:45mat4nice
21:48:11cryzedI don't get hwo you can advertise with "ruby-inspired snytax"
21:48:20cryzedbut I suppose that's entirely subjective
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21:48:32cryzed*how *syntax
21:49:02kulelu88they use LLVM while nim uses its own compiler
21:50:16cryzedcan't you freely choose the compiler backend?
21:51:46kulelu88I find that language interesting because it is in some ways similar to the market Nim appeals to
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21:52:34cryzedIt was uninteresting to me as soon as I read Ruby-like syntax
21:52:50cryzedThat might be superficial, but I need to like the language I plan on working with
21:53:22kulelu88cryzed: what issues do you have with Ruby?
21:53:32cryzedI don't like the syntax
21:53:37cryzedalso it's slow
21:53:40cryzeder than Python
21:53:44cryzedI'm a Python guy
21:54:09cryzedIMHO the only reason it's still somewhat alive is because of Ruby on Rails
21:54:11kulelu88but I've heard folks say ruby and python are similar
21:54:23cryzedthey are, in so far that they are both interpreted languages -- that's about it
21:54:57kulelu88I need to learn more about how they are different
21:58:19cryzedkulelu88, I suspect you'll quickly find that Python is much stronger in most aspects -- stdlib, speed, active community and really cool projects in regards to making it faster (PyPy, Nuitka etc.). Then again, I admit, I haven't checked out Ruby any more than on a superficial level, but I immediately disliked how it felt. When and if you read an article about ruby it's usually guranteed to mention webframework or RoR at least once, and that's
21:58:19cryzedthe top reason it's still popular imho.
21:58:48matkukiWhat is the most elegant way to get around this?
21:58:50matkukihttps://bpaste.net/show/ef04e8ed029f
21:59:37cryzedby initializing fillCount to 1?
22:00:06cryzedit is named fill - count, if you set count to 0 and expect it to print one of the filled indexes that wouldn't make much sense
22:00:58matkukiit shouldn't even loop, like in most other languages.
22:03:00cryzedyour code runs for me
22:03:33matkukireally, let me check again...
22:03:46cryzedas in, it doesn't loop
22:04:42matkukiYou're right! Wrong example.
22:06:02matkukiDamn, the correct line is 'fillCount: uint32 = 0'
22:06:47matkukiAraq was right, try not to use unsigned! Thanks cryzed!
22:07:00ephjayou dislike ruby's syntax?
22:07:05cryzedmatkuki, yep :)
22:07:06cryzedI do
22:07:11ephjaand I dunno how one can be inspired by something in an objective manner
22:08:02cryzedephja, I don't follow. Crystal advertises with that
22:08:55ephjayes, but why can't you advertise the fact that a particular language has been inspired by another?
22:10:17cryzedYou can -- it just doesn't appeal to me. Not the fact that it says its syntax was inspired by Ruby, but the fact that it syntax was inspired by Ruby
22:10:23ephjamatkuki: or 0u32
22:10:24cryzed*its
22:11:19ephjais it verbose? inconsistent?
22:11:28matkukiephja: will try
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22:12:51cryzedI don't like it, that's all. I prefer Python's and Nim's
22:15:00mat4I think ephja is just curious *why* you don't like Ruby's syntax
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22:25:04cryzedI think it's ugly. I don't know enough about Ruby to tell whether it's inconsistent or not. It's hard to put a finger on, but the few times I had seen snippets of Ruby code I just thought it looked confusing instead of nice or elegant. It uses for example many unusual "special" characters at different places, IIRC ? are allowed in method/function names then the | | syntax doesn't appeal to me. There are many small things -- but as I said, I
22:25:04cryzeddon't know enough about Ruby to point out anything else less superficial. When I decided which to learn Python or Ruby I checked out the ecosystem, the general sense/feeling I got when reading code and I strongly felt that I prefer Python for some reason
22:26:20cryzedIt wasn't strongly based in logic, it was just me liking one syntax better than the other and Python seemed/seems more popular for general-purpose programming
22:34:30ephjaok
22:37:10cryzedephja, I hope _this_ isn't the thing that makes me unpopular with you -- as I said, the decision wasn't based in logic and I just went with the first impression I got. In the end if I felt that Ruby was much more popular than Python, I would have probably chosen it, despite me not liking the syntax better
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22:40:55ephjacryzed: no I was just curious
22:41:13cryzedalright. Since this would be a waste, I have much more stupid things to say :D
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22:48:32cryzedSo has anyone seen any Nim game dev libraries? I've seen plans to create some a few times, but no specific results yet
22:48:47mat4generally: There exist some common style philosophies which reach back to the first high-level programming languages. Inconsistencies and related readability problems arised though some kind of language syncretism which affecting most modern programming languages
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22:48:59cryzedI'm currently using the SDL2 bindings and adding, I assume, common game-programming patterns to it
22:49:01mat4in my opinion
22:49:34cryzed> the amalgamation or attempted amalgamation of different religions, cultures, or schools of thought.
22:49:37cryzedI had to look this up
22:50:12cryzedmat4, do you also feel that's the case for Nim?
22:51:46mat4to the lesser yes. For example I stumbled frequently over '=' as operator for constants and ':' for variable definations
22:52:51cryzed: is used to (optionally) specify the type and = to assign the value -- that seems pretty clear to me. Unless I am misunderstanding?
22:55:58mat4it's clear however the seperation is syntactical unneeded (but ease parsing)
22:57:06cryzedeases parsing by humans you mean?
22:57:30cryzedbecause I don't think it's much of an issue to adapt the parser for that case
22:57:41mat4yes
22:57:48cryzedthen I agree
22:58:57mat4or the '=' as entry symbol for procedure definations
22:59:37mat4the colon is also used as postfix for block statements
22:59:42mat4...
23:01:21mat4finally the multiplication operator also marks external definations (like Oberon)
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23:06:29mat4for programmers which are familiar with other styles this can be misleading
23:09:08mat4so most style related discussions end up in judgement though habit (which is bad because such habit lead easily to mental inflexibility)
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