<< 14-01-2020 >>

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00:00:30	FromDiscord	<Recruit_main_70007> It is, I do have the bot, but take this cop tutorial (give me a sec)
00:00:45	FromDiscord	<Recruit_main_70007> Cpp *
00:01:00	rayman22201	https://nim-lang.org/docs/tut2.html
00:01:25	rayman22201	Sounds like you are trying to learn too many things at once.
00:02:03	FromDiscord	<Recruit_main_70007> https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ih20l3pJoeU how would I do this in Nim
00:02:14	FromDiscord	<Recruit_main_70007> That’s basically my question
00:02:32	FromDiscord	<yewpad> Are we talking about inheritance?
00:03:01	FromDiscord	<Recruit_main_70007> No, not that
00:03:53	FromDiscord	<yewpad> If you give these gentlemen are solid example of what you're trying to achieve then they will help you. What exactly is it in the video you're trying to achieve?
00:03:58	leorize	https://github.com/OneLoneCoder/videos/blob/master/OneLoneCoder_olcEngine3D_Part1.cpp
00:04:02	leorize	^ this you mean?
00:04:24	FromDiscord	<Recruit_main_70007> Yes
00:05:06	FromDiscord	<Recruit_main_70007> To Jeep things simple, something like that
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00:05:33	FromDiscord	<Recruit_main_70007> Keep* sorry it’s late and I am on iPad
00:05:52	leorize	this is doable in Nim
00:06:05	leorize	in fact I'm gonna quickly translate this for you
00:06:25	leorize	also this is basic oop
00:06:38	leorize	should be doable in most languages, including C
00:07:45	leorize	this demo doesn't look like it's supposed to be runable :P
00:08:39	leorize	yea it wasn't that the code was short, it's that the heavy lifting has all been done by his engine =="
00:09:13	leorize	translating this is kinda out of scope :P
00:09:20	leorize	but I'll try to draft you something that looks like that
00:09:36	FromDiscord	<Recruit_main_70007> Ok
00:10:51	FromDiscord	<treeform> This is surprising, I was making some benchmarks and node-js backend beats the exception benchmark:
00:10:53	FromDiscord	<treeform>
00:10:53	FromDiscord	<treeform> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/371759389889003532/666434024398520340/unknown.png
00:11:31	leorize	@Recruit_main_70007: found one: https://github.com/nim-lang/ui/blob/master/examples/controllgallery2.nim
00:12:12	leorize	in Nim we don't do a ton of inheritance and overrides like C++
00:12:19	leorize	we usually do something like the above
00:12:55	leorize	create an object, then change the callbacks to whatever you want it to do
00:13:17	leorize	want to do something a lot? create a proc for it :)
00:14:45	FromDiscord	<Recruit_main_70007> And what about using a class in header file and overwriting its functions, is that doable?
00:16:52	leorize	https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=27lm
00:17:00	leorize	something like that you mean?
00:18:36	FromDiscord	<Recruit_main_70007> No, take the cpp example, it uses a header file that holds a class and the functions it then writes over
00:19:03	leorize	that's exactly what I did
00:19:15	leorize	the playground can only do one file though
00:19:33	leorize	imagine A is in an another module
00:19:48	leorize	then you create your B in your module that inherits from A
00:19:56	leorize	same way, just with two files
00:20:32	FromDiscord	<Recruit_main_70007> And the first hello is in the header file?
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00:20:53	leorize	yea?
00:21:01	leorize	note that we don't have the concept of header files
00:21:05	leorize	we only have modules
00:21:32	leorize	and they are not header files or even close to them
00:21:54	leorize	I think repl.it let you do multiple files, so wait
00:22:35	FromDiscord	<Recruit_main_70007> But we can import header files, I literally mean to do that
00:24:55	leorize	https://repl.it/repls/LoyalUnevenAtoms
00:25:18	leorize	you'll need to learn more about Nim's concept, but that repl should be enough to show you that it's possible
00:29:58	FromDiscord	<Recruit_main_70007> I think you didn’t understand what I meant to say, I was taking of defining classes in cpp/c, in a header file, importing that header and importing the functions to override them (I think it’s called that way) just like if I was making a wrapper
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00:30:40	leorize	ah, that cleared things up :P
00:31:34	leorize	that one is possible, though I'm not an expert in it
00:32:24	FromDiscord	<Recruit_main_70007> I guess that’s possible, but is it really “practical” (at least a bit) way of extending the capabilities of Nim classes?
00:32:59	FromDiscord	<Recruit_main_70007> / OOP
00:33:10	leorize	wait, are you trying to do cpp interop?
00:33:42	FromDiscord	<Recruit_main_70007> No, that’s a question for another day
00:34:10	leorize	then isn't that repl showed exactly that?
00:34:22	leorize	I got A in module, then I import it and override hello
00:34:29	leorize	with type B
00:34:37	leorize	or are you looking for something else?
00:35:10	FromDiscord	<Recruit_main_70007> If the A module is a header that has a c/cpp class yes
00:35:29	leorize	I still don't get it
00:35:42	leorize	what's the expected behavior you're looking for?
00:35:56	leorize	can you uh, write a pseudocode or some python to describe that?
00:36:16	leorize	because "C/CPP class" are meaningless in Nim :/
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00:36:47	rayman22201	he does want cpp interop. That's what that means
00:37:05	leorize	he said no when I asked :/
00:37:29	rayman22201	I think he doesn't understand.
00:37:42	rayman22201	"taking of defining classes in cpp/c, in a header file, importing that header and importing the functions to override them (I think it’s called that way) just like if I was making a wrapper" <--- that is the exact definition of cpp interop
00:38:07	FromDiscord	<Recruit_main_70007> Ok, I see what the question meant, yes, I do want to take a cpp class and work with it in Nim, sorry
00:39:18	FromDiscord	<Recruit_main_70007> It’s just that I associate cpp interop to wrapping whole modules
00:39:54	FromDiscord	<Recruit_main_70007> (And it’s 1:39 am)
00:40:48	rayman22201	sleep is an important part of preventing bugs :-P
00:41:37	FromDiscord	<Recruit_main_70007> We might retake this conversation in the future, goodnight
00:41:50	leorize	o/ sleep well
00:42:33	rayman22201	gn
00:46:20	skrylar[m]	yeh we don't have classes :b
00:48:03	donpdonp	im trying to sort a list of (float, object) by the float value. let s = j.sorted(proc (x,y: (float, Offer)): int = cmp(x[0],y[0]))
00:48:52	donpdonp	that looks right but there is a type error andI cant figure out what the error is trying to say. mismatch at position 2 = required type for cmp: proc (x: T, y: T): int{.closure.}
00:49:08	donpdonp	looks to me that I have two params of the same type and return an int
00:49:09	nisstyre	donpdonp: T = T
00:49:14	nisstyre	is that true?
00:49:24	donpdonp	i dont konw what you're asking
00:49:31	nisstyre	you have a float and an Offer object
00:49:35	nisstyre	are they both the same type?
00:49:51	donpdonp	the type of tuple[float,object] is the same for x and y, yes
00:51:12	leorize	https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=27ls
00:51:12	leorize	no error here
00:52:21	donpdonp	the rest of the error is 'expression is of type: proc (x: tuple of (float, Offer), y: tuple of (float, Offer)): int{.noSideEffect, gcsafe, locks: 0.}
00:52:30	donpdonp	leorize: hmm well thats encouraging.
00:52:42	nisstyre	yeah I'm not sure what the issue was there
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00:57:08	donpdonp	is there a seq.flatten()?
00:57:27	leorize	what would that do?
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01:00:12	donpdonp	@[["hi","there"],["george"]] => @["hi", "there", "george"]
01:02:22	leorize	nope, shouldn't be hard to implement though, as we have fold functions
01:03:13	donpdonp	nod. thx.
01:03:18	leorize	have you figured out your sorting issues?
01:04:25	nisstyre	donpdonp: https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=27lw
01:05:16	donpdonp	leorize: it has something to do with the array to be sorted had nested arrays (hence the flatten)
01:05:47	donpdonp	im not sure why the error message didnt look different, since the types would be wrong. so i cant say for sure what the fix was
01:05:57	donpdonp	but its happy now :)
01:06:16	donpdonp	nisstyre: thats interesting thx.
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02:46:51	FromDiscord	<Rika> is there smth similar to python's `yield from`?
02:53:14	leorize	closure iterators?
03:03:28	FromDiscord	<Rika> uh no, an iterator that just passes what another iterator generates
03:04:03	disruptek	we have for loops, yes.
03:04:49	leorize	just use for loops, they are inlined anyway
03:08:14	FromDiscord	<Rika> eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
03:08:21	FromDiscord	<Rika> okay i guess
03:08:39	disruptek	you can usually get by with a few less Es.
03:10:12	leorize	since you are lazy:
03:10:41	leorize	template yieldFrom(i: untyped): untyped = for x in i: yield x
03:10:41	fys	What's wrong with being lazy?
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03:11:39	leorize	fys: because it's one line less than if you just type the for out? :P
03:11:55	fys	;)
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03:30:21	disruptek	i may not be understanding this, but it seems like we could change allocators not just at the type level, but even according to scope.
03:39:07	leorize	the scope part seems unsafe
03:39:54	disruptek	we need to use the cfg anyway, so it's not like we cannot establish some guarantees.
03:40:05	disruptek	or error if it's unsolvable.
03:42:29	disruptek	Araq: would you refuse a pr for while/else and for/else? block/else?
03:43:04	leorize	block/else?
03:44:25	disruptek	executes else: clause if the block falls through. helps me create for/else and while/else.
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06:35:25	disruptek	one of my arc bugs is that only ref objects sink params during construction. an object can have a ref field that it frees in its destructor; as long as they must own all their contents, they must own refs, too.
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07:23:25	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> disruptek: mornin fella
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07:25:53	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> disruptek: Wait, so you are saying discard ObjWithRefField(refField: RefObj()) causes a leak?
07:26:01	Araq	disruptek: yeah, I would have to refuse
07:27:40	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> Araq Sup
07:29:08	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> I was expecting the finalizer stuff to be much more difficult, but I also wasnt aware that newFinalize permanently overwrites the finalizer
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07:39:58	Tanger	What's the difference between genSym/bindSym and building a let/var definition with NimNodes/idents?
07:40:27	Tanger	Does it just affect the scope of the var?
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07:55:19	Zevv	morning people, nigtienight disruptek
07:55:25	Tanger	o7
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09:38:05	PMunch	Ah, AsyncHttpClient can only handle on request at a time.. That should probably be made more obvious from the documentation
09:38:47	Araq	nope, it's async
09:38:54	Araq	it can handle more than one
09:39:38	PMunch	Yeah, you can have multiple AsyncHttpClients each creating their own requests that works asynchronously. But one client seems to only be able to handle a single request at a time.
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09:40:47	PMunch	This crashes horribly: http://ix.io/27my/nim. But this works fine: http://ix.io/27mz/nim
09:44:03	PMunch	Hmm, it seems like it should be able to handle multiple, although in series: https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/blob/version-1-0/lib/pure/httpclient.nim#L870-L874
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10:03:45	PMunch	So it should be able to handle that case Araq? Or am I using it wrong?
10:07:25	Araq	duno, sory I'm busy
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10:09:36	abcdefg	hi
10:09:42	abcdefg	which is better C or C++ ?
10:09:56	Araq	Nim.
10:10:00	PMunch	In general, or as a target for Nim?
10:10:44	FromDiscord	<gingerBill> Doesn't it highly depend on what you are using too with regards to external libraries?
10:10:45	abcdefg	in general
10:11:03	FromDiscord	<gingerBill> In general as in not related to Nim?
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10:11:13	abcdefg	yes
10:11:58	FromDiscord	<gingerBill> Well it depends on loads of factors. "is a hammer better than screwdriver?"
10:12:09	FromDiscord	<gingerBill> "better" is ill-defined here.
10:12:15	FromDiscord	<gingerBill> Better for what?
10:12:20	FromDiscord	<gingerBill> Better compared to what?
10:12:40	Araq	C++ is better because it offers much more compile-time checking.
10:13:27	abcdefg	Some people said C is better for system development (kernel, compiler, and driver), but why ?
10:13:44	Araq	These things have been discussed to death elsewhere and in the end, most CVEs are caused by C code or C-like code inside C++.
10:13:53	FromDiscord	<gingerBill> It's a complicated reason. C has less baggage by default.
10:14:15	Araq	Nothing "complicated" in here, welcome to the age of science.
10:15:04	FromDiscord	<gingerBill> Hahaha
10:16:11	abcdefg	There is also a language called "Rust"
10:16:12	FromDiscord	<gingerBill> I personally prefer C11 to C++ and actually would prefer using C to C++ on a large team. But culturally (and not just security reasons) C++ is more popular and preferred.
10:16:50	abcdefg	FromDiscord why C on a large team ?
10:17:53	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> disruptek: https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/issues/13102 might be fixed
10:17:54	disbot	➥ double free bug with arc, Result type, object refs, and iterators ; snippet at 12https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=27kh
10:18:02	FromDiscord	<gingerBill> _For me personally_, if C++ was to be used, I would have to ban a lot of the features.
10:18:33	abcdefg	such as OOP
10:18:41	FromDiscord	<gingerBill> No.
10:19:03	abcdefg	Ok
10:19:47	FromDiscord	<gingerBill> Ban list: C++ exceptions, RTTI, any of the stream stuff, most of the STL (I have custom stuff any way), multiple inheritance, most uses of single inheritance, `public/private`, minimize template use, minimize `constexpr` use, minimize operator overloading.
10:19:52	FromDiscord	<gingerBill> It's a longer list than that 😛
10:20:11	FromDiscord	<gingerBill> And the custom stuff is well tested but not public.
10:21:15	FromDiscord	<gingerBill> C++ is an old language with so many things in it that cannot go away.
10:21:24	FromDiscord	<gingerBill> Newer languages don't have these issues.
10:22:36	abcdefg	Do you think Rust will replace him ?
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10:22:52	FromDiscord	<gingerBill> Replace? No. Alternative to? Maybe.
10:23:10	FromDiscord	<gingerBill> But I prefer Nim over Rust if I had to choose between those two.
10:23:24	Araq	this is #nim btw
10:23:25	FromDiscord	<gingerBill> Otherwise I'd pick Odin 😛
10:23:36	FromDiscord	<gingerBill> Exactly.
10:23:41	Araq	not "Odin's creator prefers C11", we know that.
10:23:49	FromDiscord	<gingerBill> Sorry about that.
10:23:57	FromDiscord	<gingerBill> I do have a question about Nim at any rate.
10:24:55	abcdefg	pleace stop
10:25:02	abcdefg	i'm not gingerbill
10:25:06	abcdefg	i'm abcdefg
10:25:17	abcdefg	I don't know who is gingerbill
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10:25:27	FromDiscord	<gingerBill> That would be me replying.
10:25:33	FromDiscord	<gingerBill> Does the discord bot not show names?
10:27:11	FromDiscord	<gingerBill> Araq: regarding the coro library, I know it is unstable but is it planned to be worked on more?
10:34:05	FromDiscord	<gingerBill> `coro` is really nice for its small size. But maybe I am wrong in that `{.async.}` is probably more of a better approach than the raw primitives
10:34:06	abcdefg	what are the best tips to make a program with zero vulnerabilties ?
10:35:57	Araq	gingerBill: with --gc:arc coro should be way more stable than it used to be
10:36:10	FromDiscord	<gingerBill> That's good to know!
10:36:18	FromDiscord	<gingerBill> I haven't toyed with the arc stuff yet.
10:36:19	Araq	but the current plan is to delegate this feature to Nimble packages and only keep async+threadpool
10:36:46	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> abcdefg: Not have input :p
10:37:50	abcdefg	Is it true that some placed a backdoor inside Discord server ?
10:38:12	Araq	is it true that you're the one exploiting it?
10:38:44	FromDiscord	<gingerBill> Is it true that Discord is actually ran by a pixie in a yellow leotard orbiting around Jupiter?
10:39:46	lqdev[m]	what
10:40:49	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> 　what
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10:41:13	FromDiscord	<kodkuce> your CPU has backdoor
10:43:13	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> my house has a backdoor
10:43:57	abcdefg	at least you have a house
10:43:59	FromDiscord	<kodkuce> i dont have a house xD
10:45:11	abcdefg	welcome to the club
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10:49:51	FromDiscord	<gingerBill> Araq: the reason for my original question what I was playing with `{.async.}`, `await`, `spawn` and `parallel`.
10:50:01	FromDiscord	<gingerBill> I'm liking the approaches.
10:53:05	FromDiscord	<mratsim> The `^` is a bit hard to search though, I use `sync` in my multithreading runtime
10:54:57	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> @timotheecour Did you read https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/blob/devel/doc/destructors.rst ?
10:55:17	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> that might clear up the confusions in your issue
11:02:42	lqdev[m]	@Clyybber ah sorry, inserted a full-width space and that discord bridge can't handle that. lol
11:02:58	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> haha np, I just found the output kinda funny
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11:21:57	Araq	Clyybber: this idiom
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11:22:25	Araq	is not handled well
11:22:30	Araq	and still produces =sink
11:23:21	Araq	and I've looked at much more code now, wasMoved+destroy is not as important to optimize as enforced inlining for trivial destructors
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11:40:08	FromDiscord	<mratsim> @Araq: thoughts - https://forum.nim-lang.org/t/5810 ?
11:40:08	FromDiscord	<mratsim> I do a lot of things between VM and runtime and I never was able to benefits from {.compileTime.} being usable at runtime because it has so many bugs. I always had to reassign.
11:40:08	FromDiscord	<mratsim> I'd rather have an {.addressable.} pragma or even something specialized like {.loc: rodata.} or {.loc: bss.} for the actual use case (taking addresses of const at runtime).
11:47:59	Araq	bugs are bugs, the design is the result of the older bugs
11:51:31	FromDiscord	<exelotl> @mratsim yes, we're very much in need of something like this
11:55:22	FromDiscord	<exelotl> in devel branch, the implicit constness of top-level `let` variables under certain conditions is neat for sure! But it's not enough, I still have to use {.emit.} for my constant data in the majority of cases.
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12:14:36	Araq	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r76ZjdzFExg offtopic but very interesting
12:29:47	Zevv	why the sunglasses though
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12:47:50	Araq	could be for medical reasons
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12:58:31	Zevv	true
13:03:33	FromDiscord	<gingerBill> Or maybe he wants to look cool?
13:03:34	FromDiscord	<gingerBill> And why not?!
13:06:50	PMunch	Met a girl once who was walking around with sunglasses inside. No-one wanted to ask her why, because they thought she might just be a bit eccentric. But after a couple of days I decided I'd ask, and it turns out she had just lost her regular glasses and these were prescription sunglasses :P
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13:40:22	PMunch	Hmm, interesting limitation of nimsuggest/nimlsp. It doesn't handle case/underscore insensitivity..
13:40:47	Araq	:-) nimsuggest does understand it, I think
13:41:04	PMunch	I'm using a library that's in snake_case in the customary Nim camelCase and trying to get suggestions doesn't work if I don't use snake_case
13:41:05	Araq	I mean, it's just the compiler as a library and the compiler understands it
13:41:28	Araq	maybe it's in some filtering step
13:45:00	PMunch	Oh interesting, I see it in the LSP logs
13:45:12	PMunch	So it seems like it is the vim LSP plug-in that stops it..
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13:49:38	FromGitter	<alehander92> wow i worked in one office with this guy
13:49:44	FromGitter	<alehander92> he was in the dart team
13:50:28	Araq	I met him at Strange Loop once iirc
13:50:28	FromGitter	<alehander92> iirc he did seem as a vm expert
13:50:30	shashlick	PMunch I've noticed that with nvim.nim
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13:56:20	FromGitter	<alehander92> interesting.
13:56:28	FromGitter	<alehander92> did you guys finish your fosdem talks
13:57:10	FromGitter	<alehander92> or you gonna start preparing them on feb 2 22:35
13:57:30	Araq	er
13:57:41	Araq	is fosdem earlier than I remember?
13:58:13	Araq	uh oh
13:58:13	FromGitter	<alehander92> it seems its earlier than i do
13:58:16	FromGitter	<alehander92> 1 2 feb
13:58:21	Araq	indeed
13:58:53	FromGitter	<alehander92> dont you have a ticket or something Araq :P
13:59:24	Araq	time to book a hotel...
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14:00:08	FromGitter	<alehander92> ah i miss eating very expensive hamburgers with you guys and listening about bojack horseman
14:00:20	*	chenhq2005 quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
14:00:35	Araq	lol yeah it was nice
14:00:44	krux02	let
14:00:53	krux02	ups
14:01:15	FromGitter	<alehander92> see you on nimconf tho
14:01:38	PMunch	Very expensive hamburgers?
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14:01:58	PMunch	And yeah, FOSDEM is first weekend of February
14:02:12	PMunch	And no, I haven't started writing my talk yet
14:02:25	PMunch	I have a plan for what I'm going to talk about though
14:02:33	krux02	PMunch: what are you going to talk about?
14:02:42	FromGitter	<alehander92> well, they were just a bit expensive, i am used to 2 eur hamburgers in bulgaria :P
14:03:13	PMunch	Tha talk is on how Nim can be compiled to run on anything, from tiny Arduino boards, to web-browsers and supercomputers
14:03:17	FromGitter	<alehander92> yeah PMunch from you i remember only very high level lobster cuisine
14:03:29	krux02	Brussel is expensive
14:03:47	PMunch	Haha, coming from Norway nothing is expensive :P
14:03:48	krux02	I ate Crocodile last year
14:03:58	PMunch	Because everything here is so expensive :(
14:03:58	FromGitter	<alehander92> and african adventures good enough for a louis de finesse comedy
14:04:17	krux02	PMunch, have you been to Zürich?
14:04:26	PMunch	Only briefly
14:04:33	krux02	that is expensive.
14:04:54	FromGitter	<alehander92> i think norway is even more expensive
14:04:57	PMunch	Yeah, I remember none of us wanting to buy anything there because the prices were about the same as back home :P
14:05:14	krux02	I think I paid around 3 Francs for a small single non special ball of ice cream
14:05:14	FromGitter	<alehander92> what is crocodile
14:05:56	livcd	expensive countries are becoming kinda repulsive to me
14:06:00	livcd	even considering the benefits
14:06:08	krux02	this reptiloid thing that normally eats other animals
14:06:11	livcd	(infrastructure,healthcare,opportunities etc)
14:06:12	PMunch	According to the big mac index it's about the same price in Norway and Switzerland: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9b/Big_Mac_index_50USD_2columns.png
14:06:27	PMunch	alehander92, an animal?
14:06:40	PMunch	livcd, how so?
14:06:42	Araq	shashlick, https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/pull/13142
14:06:42	FromGitter	<alehander92> you literally ate crocodile
14:06:43	disbot	➥ fixes #13104 [backport]
14:06:50	FromGitter	<alehander92> ugh
14:06:54	Araq	do I merge this and then we check the nightly builds?
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14:07:09	FromGitter	<alehander92> i guess it should be ok
14:07:12	PMunch	Hmm, is the colour of the "fixes #" text the same as the highlight for anyone else?
14:07:24	krux02	yea, it was an experience, I don't need it again (to eat crocodile)
14:07:38	livcd	PMunch: -> offtopic
14:08:35	FromGitter	<alehander92> good thing i overate on the waffle thing
14:08:38	FromGitter	<alehander92> instead
14:08:47	krux02	PMunch, I don't have a talk on Nim, but if you need help or feedback, i am very open to help.
14:09:01	krux02	I mean with the talk
14:10:14	PMunch	Thanks, I'll let you know when I have something written down :)
14:12:48	shashlick	Araq: I'll check the zip and let you know how it goes
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14:13:11	Araq	shashlick, can you check the zip before I merged it though?
14:13:24	Araq	I think we have no nightlies for PRs
14:14:10	shashlick	yes I checked various zips across multiple releases
14:14:20	shashlick	latest 1.0.4 to 0.20.2 and 0.19.6
14:15:03	FromGitter	<alehander92> when 1.0.6
14:16:43	*	Araq merged the PR
14:17:08	disruptek	clyybber: now that i finally understand it, you fixed it?
14:18:45	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> disruptek: nevermind, false alarm
14:19:15	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> someone commented on one of araqs prs that it would fix it, but it didn't and I can't find the comment anymore
14:19:23	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> maybe I was dreaming
14:19:36	shashlick	Araq: tools/nim-gdb.py is present in the archives, it is bin/nim-gdb that's missing
14:19:37	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> alehander92: the animal, not the drug :p
14:19:57	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> I hope
14:20:49	narimiran	@alehander92 i hope to have 1.0.6-beta ready this week
14:21:05	disruptek	bug remains. but that just means i may have a shot at fixing it. 😄
14:21:40	disruptek	arc is way simpler than i expected. it gives me lots of ideas for ways to optimize allocation.
14:22:29	disruptek	coffee first, though.
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14:24:09	Araq	shashlick, bummer
14:24:16	shashlick	question: is there interest in having musl-gcc as a tested backend for Nim
14:25:03	shashlick	and is there value in making it the default backend eventually
14:26:21	shashlick	Araq: sorry, I should have been more accurate in issue description
14:26:34	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> shashlick: IMO, yes
14:27:22	shashlick	okay am going to start testing whether Nim can be built and tested with musl-gcc in the first place
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14:27:38	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> wdym with musl-gcc tho?
14:27:43	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> do you just mean gcc
14:27:48	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> and musl instead of glibc?
14:29:36	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> disregard that
14:29:53	shashlick	http://musl.cc/ is very interesting
14:30:11	shashlick	having built-in cross-compile support would be cool
14:31:45	shashlick	only thing is I don't see that they target osx
14:32:28	disruptek	i think leorize runs a gentoo/musl machine.
14:32:53	disruptek	Araq: so you say no for/else because it's just sugar, right?
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14:33:12	Araq	right
14:34:00	FromGitter	<alehander92> narimiran oh nice
14:34:06	disruptek	if i showed you a scenario where it resulted in more efficient code, you'd consider it?
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14:34:13	FromGitter	<alehander92> yeah cross compiling is cool
14:34:41	FromGitter	<alehander92> i have to try and see my problems .. i found it hard to cross compile nim to i386 because i somehow confused my 386 packages install
14:34:49	FromGitter	<alehander92> should this be something very simple
14:35:42	shashlick	well, all you really need to do is set `export CC=musl-gcc -static`
14:35:57	shashlick	@kaushalmodi did a bunch of work on this with his config.nims
14:36:15	shashlick	but i'm wondering if we can make this the defacto and not depend on libc
14:36:37	shashlick	but one problem is that all dependencies also need to be compiled this way
14:37:14	FromGitter	<alehander92> hmmm
14:37:21	FromGitter	<alehander92> i actually dont *need* libc
14:37:22	disruptek	yeah, for good reason.
14:37:35	FromGitter	<alehander92> as i want to cross compile to bare metal program for qemu
14:37:45	FromGitter	<alehander92> so i have my own "libc" stub
14:37:54	shashlick	well, maybe not - if you link to a dep that uses libc, it should work as long as libc is present right?
14:38:28	disruptek	need weak refs
14:38:30	shashlick	yep csources compiled with musl-gcc
14:38:52	FromGitter	<alehander92> no idea, my programs should really use only the "standalone" parts
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14:43:49	shashlick	okay koch builds
14:44:48	shashlick	but koch doesn't have a way to set --gcc.exe, etc.
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14:50:57	lesshaste	hi all
14:51:58	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> heh, now that scenario
14:52:04	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> I wonna see it
14:52:19	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> since I find while else to be exceptionally ambiguous
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15:00:15	FromGitter	<kaushalmodi> shasklick: ⏎ ⏎ > is there interest in having musl-gcc as a tested backend for Nim ⏎ ⏎ Yes! [https://gitter.im/nim-lang/Nim?at=5e1dd77fdbacf55b3d06f1a8]
15:01:32	shashlick	okay looks like bootstrap fails
15:02:16	shashlick	undefined references to `___memcpy_chk_`
15:03:03	shashlick	sprintf_chk and longjmp_check
15:03:30	disruptek	clyybber: it's an additional scope, you know.
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15:10:00	lesshaste	what's the status of loop vectorization in nim?
15:11:09	FromDiscord	<mratsim> what do you want to do/know?
15:11:53	FromDiscord	<mratsim> it's basically the same as GCC/Clang though you can easily vectorize manually as well
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15:14:44	disruptek	clyybber: what was the idea behind having normal/sinkArg modes?
15:15:11	FromDiscord	<mratsim> I have a vectorization template here: https://github.com/numforge/laser/blob/master/laser/lux_compiler/backend/legacy/lux_codegen_transfo.nim#L244-L281 (and a tentative vectorization pass in a linear algebra/HPC/Deep Learning compiler)
15:15:31	disruptek	is it just an artifact of refactoring?
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15:20:06	Araq	disruptek, well sinkArg means "passed to a sink parameter"
15:20:14	Araq	and normal means "normal"
15:20:24	shashlick	okay got nim compiled but setting `gcc.options.linker = "-static"` doesn't work
15:20:37	disruptek	yeah, i get it. but this proc could be broken up; it's just if ... else ... iirc
15:20:43	shashlick	had to manually `--passL:-static`
15:21:20	disruptek	why aren't obj constructors processed by handleNested?
15:24:36	Araq	because.
15:24:54	Araq	what bug are you trying to fix, disruptek ?
15:26:54	disruptek	yield foo(discriminator: ..., objref: ...) is destroying objref twice.
15:27:20	disruptek	objref is from the enclosing scope.
15:27:46	Araq	is it a .closure iterator?
15:27:53	disruptek	nah.
15:28:00	Araq	hmm ok
15:33:31	disruptek	makes sense, right?
15:33:39	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> disruptek: handleNested handles the boring recursion
15:33:48	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> in stmtlists and such
15:34:22	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> disruptek: Does it work when you make the return type lent?
15:35:04	disruptek	no.
15:36:56	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> actually destroying objref shouldn't hurt
15:37:02	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> because its refcounted
15:37:41	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> It shouldn't double free because of that
15:40:59	disruptek	bugs begin in the unfortunately state of implemented.
15:42:17	disruptek	the way it works is, if we sink foo(), we destroy foo.objref.
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15:45:11	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> what?
15:45:19	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> only if we sink to foo.objref
15:45:49	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> is the code to reproduce the same as in your issue?
15:45:59	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> and if so which snippet, the first or the second?
15:46:46	disruptek	let us look at exactly the same code.
15:46:48	disruptek	one sec.
15:46:53	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> k thx
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15:47:37	disruptek	http://ix.io/27o0/nim
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15:50:12	disruptek	i think the logic re: C(x) in the comment might be flawed.
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16:02:21	leorize	shashlick: to be fair if you wanna test musl just load up an alpine linux docker image
16:02:27	leorize	cross compiling is never pleasant
16:03:31	disruptek	clyybber: is it a race?
16:07:23	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> I don't think so, there is no threading involved
16:07:50	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> I suspect its got to do with extracting loop vars
16:08:40	disruptek	i think there's a flaw that loop vars don't demonstrate but it's not because they get an extra sink.
16:08:52	disruptek	i mean, it is, but that's not the solution.
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16:14:42	FromDiscord	<Rika> ok so why do all `var {Table types}` have a ````[]\```` that returns a var K, EXCEPT FOR COUNTTABLE WHICH HAS IT NAMED `mget`???
16:14:52	FromDiscord	<Rika> ah yes, great discord formatting
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16:15:36	disruptek	mget is the right name, it just should be aliased.
16:16:31	*	xet7 joined #nim
16:16:40	disruptek	maybe it's because you cannot modify the counttable key's value.
16:17:06	disruptek	dunno why you'd have mget, though.
16:17:58	FromDiscord	<Rika> > you cannot modify the counttable key's value
16:17:58	FromDiscord	<Rika> ?
16:18:24	FromDiscord	<Rika> why would you have mget then?
16:18:58	disruptek	insightful question.
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16:24:37	lqdev[m]	PMunch: could you make it so that the playground's text field is focused when you open the page? right now you have to press tab 6 times to focus it, or use your mouse, which is annoying.
16:25:44	FromDiscord	<Rika> ~~while you're at it, can you put auto indent, and suggestions, and...~~
16:25:45	disbot	no footnotes for `~while`. 🙁
16:26:04	FromDiscord	<Rika> make disbot ignore double tilde when
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16:26:49	lqdev[m]	Rika: the playground does have auto indentation. it's kinda glitchy when you're declaring types, tho
16:27:18	disruptek	rika: you're the only person who has ever typed ~~.
16:27:42	lqdev[m]	disruptek: discord's markdown subset uses ~~ for strikethrough.
16:27:45	FromDiscord	<Rika> discord and
16:27:46	FromDiscord	<Rika> yeah
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16:30:12	disruptek	~~testicles~~
16:30:24	disruptek	~testes~
16:30:24	disbot	no footnotes for `testes~`. 🙁
16:30:33	disruptek	~motd
16:30:34	disbot	motd: 11nim isn't winning, and it's not because it's technically inferior. -- disruptek
16:30:39	Zevv	enjoying yourselves, no?
16:30:53	*	Hideki_ joined #nim
16:33:57	disruptek	we could be.
16:34:27	disruptek	if you'd let me make nimci.
16:34:49	disruptek	nimchi
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16:37:37	shashlick	@leorize I'm not sure where I'm going with it honestly - for starters, I think a -d:musl built in would be nice
16:39:09	shashlick	whether ther'e's value in carrying various musl binaries in the nim repo is the next question so that it just works
16:39:43	shashlick	and --os and --cpu flags do what you'd expect
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16:48:43	FromDiscord	<Rika> ah yes, testing in prod
16:50:25	disruptek	clyybber: you know what it is?
16:51:08	disruptek	the eqsink for R() runs the same code twice.
16:51:51	disruptek	so it decs the ref twice, causing a double free.
16:52:29	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> hmm, I will debug it later
16:53:13	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> disruptek: Btw, you can do ./koch temp -d:toDebug=things to see things cfg
16:53:30	disruptek	yeah, i have a better test setup now.
16:53:38	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> ~disbot is stupid~
16:53:39	disbot	disbot: 11stupid~
16:53:53	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> apparently I am too
16:53:59	disruptek	but, i always look at diffs, so i was missing what wasn't changing -- broken c.
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16:54:28	disruptek	prolly just a little c+p buglet.
16:54:43	*	marmotini_ joined #nim
16:54:51	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> could be, its probably liftdestructors or injectdestructors
16:55:11	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> ~~disbot is stupid~~
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16:56:10	Pqzcih5-	Hello guys
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16:56:22	disruptek	sup dawg
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16:58:38	disruptek	~clyybber
16:58:38	disbot	clyybber: 11a dick
16:58:39	disbot	clyybber: 11looks like a fish but smells like a weasel. -- disruptek
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17:41:04	Araq	disruptek, can you please stick to a minimum of professional behaviour
17:41:20	disruptek	hey, i didn't write that.
17:41:53	Araq	but you wrote disbot
17:42:26	disruptek	i have to censor the use of my software?
17:42:48	disruptek	disbot: ignore clyybber
17:42:48	disbot	on it. 👍
17:43:32	disruptek	it's a codegen bug, this thing. amazing.
17:43:33	leorize	i'm pretty sure clyybber added the first note themselves :P
17:43:43	disruptek	you can confirm here:
17:43:44	disruptek	~data
17:43:44	disbot	data: 11disbot databases are at https://github.com/disruptek/disbot -- disruptek
17:44:39	disruptek	https://github.com/disruptek/disbot/blob/master/footnotes.json#L143
17:45:00	shashlick	which is why it should be possible to remove footnotes
17:45:02	disruptek	i'm still tracking down where we actually compose eqsink calls.
17:45:29	Araq	ok well yes, censor the database
17:45:31	disruptek	shashlick: you can pr your edits right from the website.
17:45:52	leorize	maybe you can implement a command for channel ops to remove footnotes :P
17:47:29	shashlick	http://musl.cc is blocked from work, ugh
17:48:37	disruptek	~clyybber is [redacted]
17:48:38	disbot	clyybber: 11[redacted]
17:48:44	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> nice
17:49:13	leorize	since docker exists nowadays people just use it instead of actual cross compiling :P
17:49:28	Araq	Clyybber: what do you think of this idea
17:50:51	Araq	def x; *use; def x.field;
17:51:09	Araq	--> produce nkFastAsgn for x.field and no =sink
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17:51:36	Araq	*use here stands for an arbitrary number of use instructions that do not access 'x'
17:51:56	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> But then x.field will not get destroyed?
17:52:11	disruptek	the problem is that hasDestructed needs to fail, so you need to remove tfHasAsgn
17:52:32	Araq	Clyybber: we know it's empty
17:52:38	Araq	because of the 'def x'
17:52:49	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> But def x means the opposite no?
17:52:58	Araq	huh?
17:53:15	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> def x could set x.field to some object that needs destruction
17:53:33	Araq	nah
17:53:36	Araq	how so?
17:53:50	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> x = Obj(field: SomeObj() )
17:53:59	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> Maybe I'm misunderstanding
17:54:16	Araq	er yeah
17:54:18	disruptek	we can get away with exposing field, we just can't get away with also destroying it.
17:54:28	Araq	I mean
17:54:32	Araq	strongDef x
17:54:47	Araq	which would be new
17:54:55	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> Ah, what would it entail?
17:55:10	Araq	x = ObjConstr() # strongDef x
17:55:15	Araq	new(x) # strongDef x
17:55:39	Araq	hmmm
17:55:51	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> Ah, sure. I don't think we need a new dfa instr for that, but I see what you mean
17:56:07	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> basically add field level information to object initialization/creation
17:56:18	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> for the dfa to use
17:56:44	disruptek	seems easier to just leak by default and then strongdef when required, but i guess that could be confusing for the user.
17:56:51	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> He
17:56:52	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> no
17:56:56	Araq	that's not what I had in mind
17:57:01	Araq	but maybe you're right
17:57:06	Araq	and it is what we need.
17:57:21	disruptek	i dunno, i think it will seem magical to the user.
17:57:32	disruptek	ie. too hard to reason about.
17:57:58	Araq	don't be silly, let an optimizer do its job
17:58:10	Araq	everything an optimizer does can be "hard to reason about"
17:58:27	Araq	yet I enjoy using optimizers
17:58:32	disruptek	what i mean is, you will be able to get away with a lot until some day you cannot.
17:58:40	disruptek	and you'll be confused as to why, maybe.
17:59:47	disruptek	i guess i'm wrong; it's just a matter of perspective.
18:00:32	disruptek	we used to have a rule on my MUD: "if you can do it, it's legal." ie. exploits are legal.
18:00:36	disruptek	this is just more of that.
18:01:17	disruptek	zero sum game theory between us and the user. we want to fight them as hard as possible to a draw, with the maximal amount of resources consumed.
18:02:43	Araq	I'm not following you. I view it this way: It's the compiler's job to make "idiomatic" code as fast as possible, everytime you have to use 'addr' and 'ptr' and it's not for C interop, the Nim compiler failed to do its job
18:03:06	Araq	of course, it's only a tool and sometimes the rules must be broken
18:03:21	Araq	but as a design guideline it's useful
18:03:25	disruptek	right, but the "rule" is merely that we don't let you shoot yourself in the head.
18:04:04	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> disruptek: Handwavy general rules don't really apply here, either its right and won't cause issues or its not and will
18:05:11	Araq	so ... yield, do we have an example to reproduce the problem?
18:05:37	disruptek	i can show you the bad codegen, or you can start with the nim.
18:05:57	disruptek	i'm enjoying learning the compiler, though, if you'd prefer me to fix it.
18:06:31	disruptek	i think there are rules in here that maybe don't need to exist; that's all i'm saying about headshots.
18:07:53	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> Araq: disruptek sent it previously: http://ix.io/27o0
18:08:03	FromDiscord	<demotomohiro> I think I found a typo in https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/blob/devel/doc/destructors.rst#swap
18:08:03	FromDiscord	<demotomohiro> Isn't it should be "``swap(a, b)`` is **not** implemented as ``let tmp = move(b); b = move(a); a = move(tmp)``"?
18:08:17	Araq	exactly
18:08:28	Araq	swap is a primitive not based on moves
18:08:43	Araq	becuase the way C++ does it is most silly
18:09:02	Araq	hey wait
18:09:07	Araq	the document says **not**
18:09:19	Araq	so the document is correct.
18:11:06	FromDiscord	<demotomohiro> I think you want to say "``let tmp = move(b); b = move(a); a = move(tmp)``, not "``let tmp = move(a); b = move(a); a = move(tmp)``"?
18:11:48	Araq	oh yeah
18:11:53	Araq	ok
18:12:09	FromDiscord	<demotomohiro> I will send PR to fix it
18:12:19	Araq	thanks!
18:13:04	disruptek	just look at this generated eqsink: N_LIB_PRIVATE N_NIMCALL(void, eqsink___sP7qTDFBoQf6OcbX1LEeWQ)(tyObject_R__7OQxUuBK120 N_LIB_PRIVATE N_NIMCALL(void, eqsink___sP7qTDFBoQf6OcbX1LEeWQ)(tyObject_R__7OQxUuBK DK7hE0YBjDJ80Q* dest, tyObject_R__7OQxUuBKDK7hE0YBjDJ80Q src)
18:14:22	Araq	btw please do not use things like 'defined(crashme)'
18:14:30	disruptek	variant object (not a ref) is destroying dest before and after setting the discriminant.
18:14:33	disruptek	no?
18:14:39	Araq	it always slows me down, just write the variant that crashes
18:15:00	Araq	I'll tinker with it on my own
18:15:09	disruptek	okay; i'm running the same code through two paths and comparing the output, hence the pattern.
18:15:22	disruptek	ie. valgrind with/without.
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18:15:45	another-user	hi
18:15:54	disruptek	hello
18:17:05	disruptek	both versions are broken, btw; it's just that the non-crashme variety covers its tracks better.
18:17:26	another-user	what advantage case object has compared to rust enums where you can have structs in each variant maintaining compile time type safety?
18:18:03	disruptek	variant objects achieve compile-time type safety.
18:19:03	Araq	good question, another-user. variant objects are more flexible but also more error prone, however there is a warning to get on par with Rust. iirc --warning[ProveFieldAccess]:on
18:20:07	Araq	correction: --warning:proveField:on
18:20:57	Zevv	is `./testament/tester all` expected to run clean on any system?
18:21:03	another-user	Araq: oh, didn't know that, thanks for pointing that out!
18:21:48	Araq	Zevv, dunno, it's expected to work on my machines and on the CIs
18:22:30	Zevv	fair enough
18:22:42	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> Zevv: Nope
18:22:49	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> you need nodejs for example
18:22:58	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> and probably some other stuff too
18:23:06	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> and some stuff relies on the .cache location I think
18:23:14	disruptek	sounds awesome.
18:23:39	disruptek	tell me again that you're happy with this. 😁
18:23:44	Zevv	I get tons of Failure: reNimcCrash
18:23:55	Zevv	disruptek: yeah yeah I was on my 'bad idea' chair, remember?
18:24:10	disruptek	but seriously, see what's good about testament.
18:24:26	disruptek	i think we make one tool that consumes unittest and testament tests and then we unify.
18:24:42	donpdonp	"{repr object}" -> ref 0xabcd -> (object details) is fine but I want to print only the address. "{unsafeAddr object}" is a ptr which doesnt print with {}. how can I get just the address?
18:24:52	Zevv	at this moment I just wnant to know what I broke and what still works without having to go through CI, I guess
18:25:11	disruptek	what a strange goal.
18:26:01	blackbeard420	donpdonp cast the ptr to a int to get the address?
18:26:02	Zevv	araq, he's doing it again...
18:27:45	donpdonp	blackbeard420: that works thx
18:27:52	lqdev[m]	donpdonp: `cast[int](myPointer).toHex`
18:28:38	*	dcmertens quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
18:30:18	disruptek	don't send me to timeout.
18:30:55	Zevv	but seariously, I used testament etc some time ago for these vm registers and that was ok, and now I get cruft.
18:30:58	*	Zevv starts digging
18:31:20	Araq	Zevv, if you are on devel you need to recompile testament
18:31:31	Zevv	oh right
18:31:35	Zevv	didn't realize that
18:31:38	Araq	reason? testament relies on SuccessX messsages and their format was changed
18:31:54	Araq	how do I know? because the same happened to me :P
18:32:23	Zevv	yeah that was it
18:32:23	Zevv	thanks
18:41:30	another-user	Araq: could you please point me at documentation for proveField? can't find in https://nim-lang.org/docs/nimc.html#compiler-usage-list-of-warnings
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18:48:53	Araq	apparently it's missing (huH?) so you have to trust my word
18:49:51	disruptek	well, it doesn't work with var returns.
18:50:13	disruptek	https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/issues/13102#issuecomment-574318075
18:50:14	disbot	➥ double free bug with arc, Result type, object refs, and iterators ; snippet at 12https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=27kh
18:53:11	another-user	Araq: i see, just wanted to read about its limitations/how does it work/etc
18:53:30	Araq	disruptek, I put the top level statement inside a 'main' and compiled it via
18:53:33	shashlick	musl is great until you get to ssl support
18:53:51	Araq	koch temp -d:toDebug=main c --gc:arc -r temp.nim
18:54:44	Araq	and sometimes inspecting what -d:toDebug lists is good enough and easier to read than the C code
18:54:56	disruptek	yeah, i find both helpful.
18:55:36	disruptek	what was the result of your test?
18:56:05	disruptek	ah, that works fine.
18:56:11	shashlick	i can create a static musl enabled choosenim which will work on any Linux including Alpine but then will have to statically link openssl
18:56:24	disruptek	fine.
18:56:47	shashlick	this can then be extended to arm and others, but now it will carry its own copy of ssl
18:56:48	disruptek	who cares? you're already giving them a binary, right?
18:57:46	shashlick	https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18055337
18:58:47	disruptek	irrelevant, to my eye.
18:58:56	disruptek	more important to have working software.
18:59:31	leorize[m]	can't have security issues if it doesn't work :p
18:59:41	shashlick	step 0
19:00:17	shashlick	so is there value in spending more time enabling a musl based choosenim - how many Alpine and other musl based distro customers do we have
19:00:19	leorize[m]	statically linking openssl is never a good thing :p
19:01:01	Araq	more importantly, how many Linux users on fringe distros expect working software? ffs
19:01:19	leorize[m]	do you want a musl-based choosenim? I can build it for you :p
19:01:32	disruptek	i just want it to work.
19:01:34	Araq	we should charge money for it
19:01:57	shashlick	@leorize - i need to push some fixes to nimarchive to support it
19:02:02	shashlick	but will be great if you can try it out
19:02:14	leorize[m]	uhmm, no?
19:02:19	disruptek	he has a musl system now.
19:02:25	disruptek	he'll just email it to you.
19:02:28	leorize[m]	it works perfectly on native musl system
19:02:38	shashlick	okay give it a try then
19:02:42	disruptek	lol
19:02:54	disruptek	shashlick: put shashlick's sister on.
19:02:58	shashlick	try building choosenim@#head
19:05:51	another-user	Araq: how does it prove field usage correctness? trying to see if it works but in this example https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=27pe when compiling with --warning:proveField:on it always emits warning
19:05:53	leorize	Error: cannot open file: nimterop/docs
19:05:59	leorize	building nimarchive :P
19:06:15	disruptek	another new victim to the ecosystem.
19:06:43	Araq	another-user, it's tied to 'case' statements
19:07:21	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> Its also not very smart currently, but I have a PR that improves it
19:07:36	leorize	shashlick: lol I can't even build nimterop@#head
19:07:50	shashlick	@leorize what's the issue
19:07:56	Araq	Clyybber, disruptek what does valgrind say
19:08:07	Araq	I'm staring at the code and everything looks ok
19:08:08	another-user	Araq: i thought so too at first but it behaves the same way even with case - https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=27ph
19:08:17	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> Didn't yet investigate, I'm about to finish the new analysis thing
19:08:21	disruptek	Araq: well, take it out of main.
19:08:32	disruptek	did you see the c i posted?
19:08:40	Araq	why? it crashes inside main too
19:08:47	disruptek	oh, not for me.
19:09:05	leorize	another-user: uhmm, your code is correct?
19:09:29	Araq	another-user, might be caused by your 'var' parameter, it's been years since I wrote this
19:09:52	leorize	shashlick: http://ix.io/27pi
19:09:54	disruptek	var params don't work because we cannot prove them yet.
19:10:29	another-user	disruptek, Araq: ah, i see
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19:10:41	disruptek	unproven var returns exist in stdlib, too.
19:11:06	leorize	Building nimterop/nimterop/toast using c backend
19:11:08	leorize	Prompt: Build failed for '[email protected]', would you like to try installing 'nimterop@#head' (latest unstable)? [y/N]
19:11:11	leorize	really helpful, nimble
19:11:40	*	FromGitter quit (Remote host closed the connection)
19:11:41	leorize	added --verbose and I still don't know what is wrong
19:11:43	disruptek	Araq: you think that c in the issue is okay?
19:11:49	disruptek	i think it's bogus.
19:11:58	*	FromGitter joined #nim
19:12:16	leorize	shashlick: can I get some help on this? ^
19:12:16	shashlick	@leorize: do you have the latest regex package?
19:12:57	leorize	regex 0.13.0 fwiw
19:13:07	*	drewr quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
19:13:31	leorize	how can I make nimble spew out the build log for me?
19:13:45	shashlick	just try `nim c nimterop/toast`
19:13:45	Araq	--verbose
19:13:56	leorize	"Build failed" is just like MS's "An error has occured"
19:14:11	disruptek	just run the nimph bootstrap. problem solved.
19:14:24	Araq	nimble hides you from the Nim compiler's complexities
19:14:32	Araq	*hides from you
19:14:51	Araq	that's useful because Nimble's users are not Nim programmers
19:14:55	Araq	or something like that...
19:15:15	leorize	added verbose and still "Build failed"...
19:15:22	leorize	fine, I'll clone nimterop repo myself
19:15:23	Araq	--debug
19:15:28	Araq	try --debug
19:15:48	shashlick	i've never tested on alpine so many bets are off
19:15:55	Araq	disruptek, where do you think the bug is in the C code?
19:15:57	leorize	I'm on gentoo/musl :P
19:16:08	shashlick	okay then even more luck
19:16:17	disruptek	we are destroying dest field twice.
19:16:20	shashlick	i remember emerge from a decade ago
19:16:26	leorize	shashlick: http://ix.io/27pn
19:16:37	disruptek	it's just simple duplication of the code.
19:17:15	shashlick	heh, that's like the issue I opened on windows - https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/issues/12939
19:17:17	disbot	➥ stdout cannot be reassigned on some systems ; snippet at 12https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=253B
19:17:51	Araq	disruptek, I'm blind
19:17:53	disruptek	the two possibly-relevant qualities: it's a variant object, and it's a variant object that is not a ref.
19:18:43	leorize	shashlick: please use reopen...
19:18:47	leorize	that's the POSIX way to do it
19:19:04	shashlick	how do you recover stdout after that
19:19:46	shashlick	https://github.com/nimterop/nimterop/blob/master/nimterop/toast.nim#L172
19:20:32	disruptek	Araq: i overlooked it too many times to admit.
19:20:50	disruptek	it's just long enough to not fit in my diff context.
19:22:47	Araq	I don't see the double free
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19:23:24	another-user	is it possible to enable all warnings/hints in nim.cfg without enumerating them all manually?
19:23:27	Araq	I mean, obviously it must be there, it crashes
19:23:30	disruptek	we call devrefislast twice, so we can call the second destroy.
19:23:39	disruptek	nimDecRefIsLast()
19:23:54	Araq	well it does reference counting
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19:24:04	Araq	so that's not immediately false
19:24:05	shashlick	@leorize - https://stackoverflow.com/questions/1908687/how-to-redirect-the-output-back-to-the-screen-after-freopenout-txt-a-stdo
19:24:10	disruptek	yes, but it shouldn't dec the field twice.
19:24:19	shashlick	looks like glibc allows reassign but since you are using musl, it might not allow this
19:24:31	shashlick	similar to windows where it probably isn't allowed either
19:24:51	leorize	yea looks like you can't
19:25:05	leorize	posix don't require stdout to be a valid lvalue :(
19:25:21	shashlick	well, it works fine on ubuntu and osx
19:25:38	shashlick	guess i have to write a template for echo to be redirected everywhere
19:26:10	disruptek	stdmsg()
19:27:45	leorize	Araq: probably stdin/out/err shouldn't be assignable in Nim
19:28:03	shashlick	anyone has a working template for echo
19:28:28	leorize	you can just replace all echo with stdmsg.writeLine, no?
19:28:42	Araq	leorize, true.
19:28:50	shashlick	if flag, redirect to file else print to screen
19:29:38	disruptek	i do this in several places. works fine.
19:29:55	disruptek	i thought it was only picked up by android or switch or something, though.
19:30:10	leorize	shashlick: template fecho(args: varargs[string, `$`]) =
19:30:17	shashlick	yep in the manual
19:31:14	Araq	disruptek, er
19:31:29	Araq	now I see it, easy bug
19:31:42	Araq	in eqsink___kd0fUYz9cI3tz3C2qfJviHw right?
19:31:46	disruptek	yeah
19:32:28	Araq	so that's a logical bug
19:32:34	Araq	in our liftdestructors.nim
19:35:42	Araq	can't be hard to fix :P
19:41:43	disruptek	same problem in `yield R(o: true, field: unit); yield R(o: false)`
19:58:33	oz	for a moment, I read lifedestructors.nim :>
20:00:21	disruptek	you won't like how it ends.
20:03:19	*	sschwarzer joined #nim
20:04:25	sschwarzer	Yay, I'm coming to FOSDEM :-)
20:04:41	sschwarzer	(If nothing gets in the way)
20:07:47	shashlick	@leorize - i have a fix, you able to test?
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20:15:44	sschwarzer	Just (re)discovered the Nim programming live streams ( https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAIXKsgiEkRjwlNgduABgmw/videos ). Araq, are you (or others) still interested in doing this? (Just curious, I didn't watch them so far)
20:16:13	Yardanico	you can always do them yourself :P
20:16:23	Yardanico	and there are some other people who made youtube videos about Nim
20:16:42	sschwarzer	Also noticed that there are two videos for live stream 3, but no parts 1, 2, 4 and 5.
20:17:01	sschwarzer	Yardanico: That's an expected answer. :-) But no, I think I can't. :)
20:17:02	Yardanico	I think you'll enjoy https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXIivpcMlfwAevvA4IvLIiYOujqSuyyKY
20:17:16	Yardanico	It contains just about all videos about Nim on youtube, maintained by libman
20:17:31	Yardanico	he's not really active in nim community, but he still maintains this playlist :)
20:17:38	sschwarzer	Yardanico: Yes, I found this in my search
20:17:57	sschwarzer	Yardanico: He writes in the forum from time to time.
20:18:37	sschwarzer	My "problem" is more that I should be writing Nim code instead of writing in the IRC channel. ;-/
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20:42:30	Araq	sschwarzer, I need to upload the videos...
20:42:34	lqdev[m]	any reason for `getTypeImpl` not preserving the privacy of object fields? it just returns object fields no matter if they're private or not, without the export marker *
20:42:36	Araq	remind me again tomorrow please
20:43:13	Araq	lqdev[m], the getType set of APIs grew and have seen little design
20:43:38	Araq	like much other stuff in macros.nim the goal was to see if it can be done at all
20:44:38	lqdev[m]	dang it. so the way I'd have to do it is to get the original type of the object, and check there?
20:44:51	Araq	PRs are welcome
20:45:03	Araq	somehow expose the fact if it's public or not
20:45:22	lqdev[m]	I'd love to help, any tips on where can I start?
20:46:09	lqdev[m]	and, by "somehow" you mean without breaking existing code?
20:46:19	Araq	yes
20:46:47	Araq	vmdeps.mapTypeToAstX
20:46:56	Araq	has most of the implementation
20:47:17	lqdev[m]	right
20:48:08	Araq	maybe add a macros.isPublic(n)
20:48:53	lqdev[m]	yeah, I was thinking of something like that
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20:52:23	Araq	disruptek, this is harder than it looks
20:52:30	disruptek	i know.
20:52:32	Araq	need to sleep over it
20:53:07	Araq	if the case branches do not change it's rather easy
20:53:19	disruptek	yes, well.. 🤣
20:53:30	Araq	but if they do, you better destroy the old stuff
20:53:41	disruptek	this is why i wanted sentinels.
20:54:38	FromGitter	<Varriount> Sentinels?
20:55:36	disruptek	it's a hack to get around a proper cfg.
20:56:00	Araq	we have a "proper cfg"
20:56:17	disruptek	it's a hack to get around empropering an existing cfg.
20:56:55	FromGitter	<dumjyl> lqdev[m], Araq: isPublic already exists, its called is exported
20:57:03	FromGitter	<dumjyl> isExported
20:59:07	shashlick	looks like no dom96 today
20:59:13	Araq	ah ok
20:59:23	Araq	didn't remember, thanks dumjyl
20:59:47	Araq	disruptek, ok, have a fix
20:59:53	disruptek	yeah?
21:00:55	Araq	yeah but it only works for =sink I think
21:01:01	disruptek	i don't think the cfg is correct, but maybe that's separate.
21:02:06	Araq	what's the issue number?
21:02:22	disruptek	!issues author:disruptek
21:02:23	disbot	https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/issues/13105 -- 5codegen bug with arc
21:02:23	disbot	https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/issues/13102 -- 3double free bug with arc, Result type, object refs, and iterators
21:02:23	disbot	https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/issues/12945 -- 5mutable iterator cannot yield named tuples 7& 15 more...
21:04:27	lqdev[m]	@dumjyl thanks
21:04:51	Araq	https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/pull/13151 check it for yourself
21:04:52	disbot	➥ fixes #13102
21:05:02	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> Araq: This stuff is really tricky but really fun
21:05:09	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> I am working on making this work:
21:05:21	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> = n #lastread #justRead{n}
21:05:21	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> n.f = #firstwrite#justRead{n}, justWrote{n.f}
21:05:21	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> = n.f #lastread n = #firstwrite
21:05:35	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> Sorry hit enter too soon
21:05:55	lqdev[m]	Araq: out of pure curiosity, are the VM magics simply emitting the opcodes defined by the .magic pragma's value?
21:05:55	Araq	remember that we also need a 'recover' statement
21:06:10	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> ... = n #lastread
21:06:10	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> n.f = ... #firstwrite
21:06:10	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> ... = n.f #lastread
21:06:11	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> n = ... #firstwrite
21:06:39	Araq	lqdev[m], it depends on the magic and in general the mapping is not obvious
21:06:42	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> Araq: I don't think we do. It is equivalent to eliding refcounting for refs on the stack
21:07:00	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> Though, maybe we could extend the pony approach to runtime
21:07:10	Araq	no, I mean 'recover' to compute the 'owned ref' property
21:07:16	Araq	then we can skip the runtime logic
21:07:21	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> Yeah, I know.
21:07:33	Araq	the runtime logic is fun too though
21:07:43	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> Yep, maybe as a fallback
21:09:25	Araq	this bug is concerning me, does it mean we need a =incRef ?
21:09:46	disruptek	it's pretty grisly.
21:09:47	Araq	we need half of the assignment operation, tricky
21:10:27	disruptek	honestly, we need the cfg to be right.
21:10:36	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> The cfg is probably right
21:10:46	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> But I didn't look at it yet :p
21:10:51	disruptek	it cannot tell me which branch we are in, so it's wrong.
21:10:58	FromGitter	<alehander92> there should be an easy way to visualize it
21:11:02	FromGitter	<alehander92> i guess there is tho
21:11:14	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> disruptek: WDYM it cannot tell what branch?
21:11:20	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> That its missing jumps?
21:11:29	FromGitter	<alehander92> is there something like dumpCfg (for a certain function)]
21:11:41	disruptek	check it yourself. even with ct constants, it doesn't know how to sever variant branches.
21:11:45	Araq	yes, there is, use -d:toDebug=procNameHere
21:11:50	FromGitter	<alehander92> i nice
21:11:52	FromGitter	<alehander92> ah*
21:12:06	Araq	disruptek, the variant branches are inside the '=' and '=sink' operations
21:12:14	Araq	the cfg doesn't care
21:12:29	Araq	and now let me sleep, see you tomorrow
21:12:31	disruptek	i know, but if the cfg cared, then we would know when we could elide some of that.
21:12:35	FromDiscord	<inv> Hello, can someone help with criterion package?
21:12:36	FromDiscord	<inv> I am doing ```nim
21:12:36	FromDiscord	<inv> import criterion
21:12:36	FromDiscord	<inv>
21:12:36	disruptek	gn
21:12:36	FromDiscord	<inv> var cfg = newDefaultConfig()
21:12:36	FromDiscord	<inv>
21:12:37	FromDiscord	<inv> benchmark cfg:
21:12:37	FromDiscord	<inv>
21:12:38	FromDiscord	<inv> proc t0() {.measure.} =
21:12:40	FromDiscord	<inv> var a = "Rust"
21:12:41	FromDiscord	<inv> var b = "Nim"
21:12:43	FromDiscord	<inv> doAssert a != b
21:12:44	FromDiscord	<inv>
21:12:45	FromDiscord	<inv> proc t1() {.measure.} =
21:12:47	FromDiscord	<inv> var a = "Rust"
21:12:48	FromDiscord	<inv> var b = "Nim"
21:12:49	FromDiscord	<inv> doAssert a > b
21:12:51	FromDiscord	<inv> ```
21:12:52	FromDiscord	<inv> compiles ok, but no output at all
21:13:02	disruptek	inv: submit issues to my criterion branch and i will fix them.
21:13:31	disruptek	i have some messy cleanup to do there, but it does work iirc.
21:13:47	disruptek	lemonboy is gone.
21:13:54	zedeus	:(
21:13:59	Yardanico	i've seen him do some commits to Zig :P
21:14:04	zedeus	traitor
21:14:15	FromDiscord	<inv> Ah, sorry, someone showed screenshot from irc - it paste looks very bad.
21:14:23	FromGitter	<alehander92> a guy that loves langdesign <3
21:14:28	Yardanico	ah wait, lemonboy is already #2 in Zig contributors
21:14:30	Yardanico	xD
21:14:45	FromDiscord	<inv> disruptek, I just was not sure if I do it right - everything looks ok, except that I do not have output
21:17:25	shashlick	am working on https://github.com/dom96/choosenim/issues/28 for Windows
21:17:26	disbot	➥ Ask the user whether they want Nim added to PATH
21:17:26	*	inv2004 joined #nim
21:17:35	disruptek	you gotta blackBox what you want to measure.
21:17:36	shashlick	should we check every time you run choosenim?
21:17:54	disruptek	i would just warn them if it's not in the path.
21:18:10	shashlick	or when we switch to another version
21:18:41	FromGitter	<matrixbot> `grantmwilliams` what is the most appropriate way to get get the tail of an openArray? that is [1,2,3] to just [2,3]?
21:19:08	shashlick	[1 .. ^1]
21:19:54	inv2004	dom96, can I force this ? https://github.com/nim-lang/nimble/pull/761
21:19:57	disbot	➥ Run can work without additional option if only one bin in .nimble
21:22:51	inv2004	disruptek much better right now - thank you
21:23:01	disruptek	no problem.
21:26:26	inv2004	disruptek cannot understand - does it measure blackbox or {.measure.} . output looks like it is {.measure: ... } only
21:27:22	disruptek	blackBox triggers measurement, measure is the bit measured.
21:28:55	inv2004	on the main page example I see bench for fibN and fibN1 only, why not fib5 ?
21:29:29	disruptek	main page example?
21:29:45	inv2004	https://github.com/LemonBoy/criterion.nim
21:29:54	FromDiscord	<Recruit_main_70007> When should I use proc, func or method?
21:30:24	inv2004	disruptek or this one probably: https://github.com/LemonBoy/criterion.nim/blob/master/tests/tfib.nim
21:30:38	FromGitter	<alehander92> if you need inheritance, `method`
21:30:46	FromGitter	<alehander92> otherwise if you can use `func`
21:30:51	inv2004	FromDiscord func == proc without sideeffects
21:31:15	disruptek	inv: there's a fib5 bench there..
21:31:15	FromGitter	<alehander92> but if your function has side effects(as defined by nim, so you can have some "side" effects !!)
21:31:17	FromGitter	<alehander92> proc
21:31:35	FromGitter	<alehander92> but i am used to proc so i still use it often
21:31:38	FromGitter	<alehander92> but its a bit like
21:31:49	FromGitter	<alehander92> use const if you can, if not let, if not var
21:32:33	FromDiscord	<Recruit_main_70007> So, func won't be able to have side effects right?
21:32:38	FromGitter	<alehander92> which is also dont always do
21:32:46	FromGitter	<alehander92> well .. kinda
21:33:03	FromDiscord	<Recruit_main_70007> But will give you some kind of advantage
21:33:03	FromGitter	<alehander92> you cant call functions which have "nim side effects"
21:33:18	FromGitter	<alehander92> or mutate variables out of args/locals
21:33:36	FromGitter	<alehander92> but you can e.g. use "debugecho" or escape if you really need i guess
21:33:53	*	marmotini_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
21:33:57	FromGitter	<alehander92> yes its good because it generally means you can expect less surprises from a function
21:34:03	Araq	disruptek: it's simple really, =destroy(x); wasMoved(x); field-wise assignments
21:34:19	*	krux02 joined #nim
21:34:27	disruptek	true.
21:35:42	disruptek	y'know, we can run different destructors depending on where we are in the cfg.
21:36:04	inv2004	disruptek https://imgur.com/AL5eHP8
21:36:04	disruptek	ie. they don't have to be limited to types.
21:36:08	disruptek	Araq: ^
21:36:20	Araq	yeah I know but we put the complexity into the parts that deserve it
21:36:33	Araq	nobody expects super-fast case object assignments
21:36:43	Araq	usually they are behind a 'ref' already
21:36:52	disruptek	free performance, but yeah.
21:37:05	disruptek	i'm actually thinking more about 0-1-N assignments.
21:37:18	disruptek	i have this idea about having custom-scoped allocators.
21:37:19	Araq	as you can see, it's already complex enough
21:37:34	disruptek	oh, it's gonna get lots more complex from here.
21:37:36	Araq	and far longer in development than I'd like to admit
21:38:04	disruptek	but this is what's gonna take nim to the next level.
21:38:19	disruptek	we could have auto-tune allocators. scoped gc.
21:38:28	disruptek	some really crazy shit.
21:38:42	krux02	disruptek, crazy shit is normally not that great.
21:38:59	krux02	but yes, I like to have more control over allocation.
21:39:33	disruptek	i see such potential in this language.
21:39:42	disruptek	i just want others to see it, too.
21:39:43	krux02	me, too
21:39:47	inv2004	Rust has a lot of complexity with the borrow-checker. probably you will have the same.
21:39:58	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> inv2004: Nope
21:40:01	disruptek	inv: arc is way simpler.
21:40:11	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> And if we do its there to help you, not to hinder you
21:40:12	disruptek	and really not comparable at all when it comes to the user.
21:40:17	inv2004	I hope so.
21:40:31	krux02	disruptek, at least that is what you think right now
21:40:33	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> The problem with attaching allocation and deallocation to scopes is function calls
21:40:34	disruptek	araq's branch fixes all my gittup issues, btw.
21:40:43	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> nice!
21:40:55	disruptek	someone should test it on async.
21:41:06	disruptek	i have a feeling this is a key fix for that.
21:41:18	disruptek	just based on what i know of the async impl.
21:41:18	inv2004	disruptek probably I did not get: sink and lint - something like Rust, but you are talking about arc - its more about rc/arc.
21:41:22	Araq	async doesn't use case objects, so no.
21:41:36	disruptek	no, but it's the iterator issue.
21:41:45	disruptek	(fixed)
21:41:46	Araq	there is no iterator issue
21:42:05	Araq	but yeah, every bug we fix can't be bad for async
21:42:17	inv2004	disruptek can you check this image ? https://imgur.com/a/MsK62o1 I do not see fib5 here
21:42:44	disruptek	what is that?
21:42:52	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> ? theres fibN(x=5)
21:42:57	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> is that not what you are looking for?
21:43:33	inv2004	Clyybber, but fib5 is also blackboxed
21:43:40	inv2004	disruptek it is https://github.com/LemonBoy/criterion.nim/blob/master/tests/tfib.nim
21:43:45	disruptek	krux02: yeah, i know i'm not seeing the full forest, but i know how big the trees are.
21:46:13	krux02	disruptek, I think we should have a public document about the construction sites of Nim.
21:46:24	krux02	Well, it will expose the weaknesses of Nim.
21:46:33	disruptek	i woulda settled for my stars idea, but yeah.
21:46:40	krux02	Might turn off beginners. But they will probably not read that document.
21:46:47	Araq	"construction sites"?
21:46:56	disruptek	"warning: go around."
21:47:12	krux02	what I mean with that, weak points of nim that need to be improved on.
21:47:33	krux02	disruptek, yea sometimes you can't go around.
21:47:34	disruptek	we may as well set the narrative.
21:47:42	krux02	yes
21:47:45	krux02	that is what I mean.
21:47:52	disruptek	👍
21:48:10	Araq	https://github.com/nim-lang/RFCs/issues
21:48:31	inv2004	ok, looks like a bug with criterion, will submit issue. Thank you
21:48:52	Araq	feels to me like "I didn't read the RFCs but I propose we write more of them"
21:48:59	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> inv that repo is archived
21:49:08	inv2004	ah, just found
21:49:19	disruptek	inv: submit it to my fork, please.
21:49:21	sschwarzer	I was away from the channel for a while, and now so many messages.
21:49:32	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> Araq: #13149
21:49:36	krux02	The problem with the issues list is, it is too long and it often distracts us from the real important issues.
21:49:39	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> cooldome found an issue with case objects
21:49:43	disruptek	Araq: we don't all have the rfcs on speed-dial.
21:49:46	sschwarzer	Araq: I'll try to remind you of the videos
21:49:50	disruptek	sometimes it's useful to chat.
21:49:55	krux02	Sure the important issues are in the issues list, and sure you can say, just read the issues list.
21:50:09	Araq	dude, it's not the issue list
21:50:09	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/issues/13149, not sure if its related, I didn't look into it yet
21:50:12	disbot	➥ Destructors: case objects have issues ; snippet at 12https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=27qe
21:50:19	Araq	it's the list of RFCs
21:52:01	inv2004	disruptek I do not see issues in fork
21:52:11	disruptek	doh!
21:52:20	disruptek	!repo disruptek/criterion.nim
21:52:21	disbot	no results 😢
21:52:34	krux02	aparently you like to work with the issues list. I don't. I just lack the qualification to explain in detail why I don't like the issues list from the issue tracker
21:53:41	disruptek	inv2004: try now, please, and thank you.
21:54:18	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> Araq: I think the real solution is weakAsgn and weakSink
21:54:26	*	icebattle joined #nim
21:54:37	Araq	clyybber: not buying it
21:54:53	Araq	C++ has no weakAsgn either
21:54:58	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> The issue can only occur when we assign to a new location for an case object
21:55:06	Araq	I mean, I do understand your point
21:55:18	Araq	but the fewer =ops we have, the better
21:55:24	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> Araq: Sorry, I really mean moving destroy(dest) out of sink and asgn
21:55:30	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> I think thats better
21:56:07	Araq	but it isn't. you cannot re-use the memory in seq's '=' then
21:56:41	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> Hmmm
21:56:55	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> Thats true
21:57:08	Araq	or to put it more abstract: you lose information when '=' isn't destructive inside
21:57:13	*	Trustable quit (Quit: Leaving)
21:57:17	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> Wait,
21:57:24	Araq	every information loss hinders optimization
21:57:36	disruptek	this is why i want a sentinel.
21:57:42	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> I dont want to loose information
21:57:53	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> I mean instead of `=` generate `=destroy` `=`
21:58:10	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> well the destroy being in an if case, when it cannot be determined at compile time
21:58:16	disruptek	why don't we just add a bit to keep track?
21:58:35	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> It is required for init elision
21:58:43	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> disruptek: Add a bit to what?
22:00:09	disruptek	he's saying he wants it inside so it has scope on the destroy/= and you're asking to move it outside.
22:00:19	disruptek	what am i missing?
22:01:12	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> Nothing, but moving it out allows *more* optimization not less
22:01:25	*	sschwarzer quit (Quit: leaving)
22:01:29	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> Since we can then elide it at compile time
22:01:39	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> We essentially already do that with firstWrite
22:01:44	disruptek	there can be three ways for two things.
22:02:11	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> But only for sink, and I say we should do it for = too
22:02:29	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> But I'm working on it
22:02:57	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> but I think i need some sleep 🙂
22:03:01	FromDiscord	<Clyybber> good night fellas
22:03:06	disruptek	peace
22:03:49	Araq	bye
22:03:55	FromGitter	<alehander92> nighht
22:06:36	*	inv2004 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
22:08:27	disruptek	the discriminator is limited to 16bit, but that's a vm limitation?
22:10:12	lqdev[m]	disruptek: no, the compiler uses a lookup table for variants. the exists to limit it from blowing up in memory, if I understand correctly
22:11:23	disruptek	we could just make it negative in destroy and then we always know if the variant was destroyed, what its last branch was, or whether it's "live" (and which branch it is, as per usual).
22:12:03	disruptek	1bit
22:16:19	disruptek	no one likes my ideas. 😢
22:16:30	*	abm quit (Quit: Leaving)
22:19:22	FromDiscord	<inv> Heh, Iam 90% sure it is nim bug: in the tfib.nim - nim does not see fib5() in its block.
22:19:56	disruptek	okay this i gotta see.
22:20:37	FromDiscord	<inv> just put echo "DEBUG1: ", repr body into first like of xbenchmark
22:20:47	FromDiscord	<inv> just put echo "DEBUG1: ", repr body into first like of xbenchmark of sugar.nim
22:21:04	FromDiscord	<inv> just put echo "DEBUG1: ", repr body into the first like of xbenchmark of sugar.nim
22:21:10	FromDiscord	<inv> just put echo "DEBUG1: ", repr body into the first line of xbenchmark of sugar.nim
22:23:45	FromDiscord	<inv> .measure: []. could be workaround, but anyway it is strange
22:24:36	disruptek	sorry i doubted you!
22:25:37	FromDiscord	<inv> n.p. It is just my second day in nim 🙂
22:25:51	disruptek	i think i have a fix.
22:26:11	*	muffindrake quit (Quit: muffindrake)
22:26:18	FromDiscord	<inv> could you please explain what is going on there? just interesting to undesratand
22:26:37	disruptek	when i know i'm right... 😉
22:28:37	disruptek	compiler crash.
22:34:20	disruptek	now if i could only figure that out...
22:47:26	disruptek	no, it seems i was wrong. now this is interesting.
22:50:30	disruptek	it's written weird, but it's written right. except where it isn't.
22:52:16	FromGitter	<alehander92> guyyys
22:52:22	FromGitter	<alehander92> whats up
22:52:30	FromGitter	<alehander92> disruptek dont you want to write os-es
22:52:44	FromGitter	<alehander92> sorry late night brain
22:52:51	FromGitter	<alehander92> time to night sleep night
22:52:53	disruptek	dude i can't write my name.
22:55:18	FromGitter	<zacharycarter> me either
22:57:51	disruptek	this is nuts.
22:58:00	disruptek	niv: this is /totally/ nuts.
22:58:21	FromGitter	<zacharycarter> ?
22:58:34	disruptek	this guy may have stumbled on a huge ast elision bug.
22:59:21	disruptek	it's also an infinite loop for the compiler, so it takes ages to test.
22:59:27	disruptek	you can't make this stuff up.
22:59:33	FromGitter	<zacharycarter> ooo
23:01:23	disruptek	it makes me wonder if lemonboy is leaving an easter egg.
23:01:40	FromGitter	<zacharycarter> :D
23:10:55	*	solitudesf quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
23:11:07	disruptek	man, this is bananas.
23:14:09	FromGitter	<zacharycarter> mmmm bananas....
23:19:17	FromGitter	<zacharycarter> ugh wrote so many cover letters today... over it
23:19:44	disruptek	resumes?
23:21:44	FromGitter	<zacharycarter> yeah - trying to get out of Finland and back to the states
23:22:00	disruptek	chilly?
23:22:11	FromGitter	<zacharycarter> I got an offer from Creative Assembly today - the guys that make all the total war games, but it was poop
23:22:34	disruptek	that doesn't sound very good.
23:22:45	disruptek	are you considering it?
23:22:51	FromGitter	<zacharycarter> eh more has to do with gf being back there and the fact that I've realized games are just like any other software and there's nothing really special about developing them
23:23:08	FromGitter	<zacharycarter> nah - she wouldn't be able to come over to live with me in the UK and I'd be taking a pay cut
23:23:13	FromGitter	<zacharycarter> so I'm going to reject it in the morning
23:23:50	disruptek	make games programming is something you can age out of gracefully.
23:23:57	disruptek	^maybe
23:24:24	FromGitter	<zacharycarter> yeah - I can always do it in my personal time and try to make an indie game and sell it on steam
23:24:48	FromGitter	<zacharycarter> but I think I'd rather go back to making more money and work less hours like I was before in the states
23:24:49	disruptek	that would be awesome.
23:25:05	disruptek	i need to get a job.
23:25:17	disruptek	i miss really getting stuck in.
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23:28:27	disruptek	i want a workflow where i can make a change in my editor, hit a key, and have it committed. then i want my ci in the gutter telling me it's golden.
23:29:31	disruptek	wasn't GUTTER, C.I. a TV show in the '80s?
23:30:26	disruptek	ima build that shit.
23:30:49	FromGitter	<zacharycarter> lol
23:30:58	FromGitter	<zacharycarter> eh I don't even care if I have a job
23:31:01	FromGitter	<zacharycarter> I just want some way to make money
23:31:23	disruptek	is that code for, "i'm down for anything" or what?
23:31:35	FromGitter	<zacharycarter> no zjs
23:31:53	FromGitter	<zacharycarter> nah but like - I'd do patreon / freelance / consulting etc if it meant I could earn a comfortable living
23:32:19	disruptek	right.
23:32:25	FromGitter	<zacharycarter> something remote would be the tits
23:33:55	disruptek	i feel like if you're good, that work is easy to come by.
23:35:43	disruptek	ima add for/else while/else to the language, first, though.
23:36:22	disruptek	i just want it.
23:36:26	FromGitter	<zacharycarter> I got so many rejections today - but I have a feeling it's because my CV has my address in Finland and I just got screened out by a bunch of robots
23:36:52	disruptek	who rejects you?
23:37:05	FromGitter	<zacharycarter> I know right? how dare they...
23:37:19	FromGitter	<zacharycarter> to be fair, it was a bunch of places which I lazily applied to via linked in by clicking a few buttons
23:37:26	FromGitter	<zacharycarter> so they probably spent as much effort as I did in applying
23:37:44	disruptek	i have no idea how to go about searching.
23:37:55	disruptek	do i just go to indeed?
23:38:06	FromGitter	<zacharycarter> I used linkedin jobs and uh
23:38:29	FromGitter	<zacharycarter> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21936440 as well as https://findwork.dev/?source=hn or one of the other links in the top of the HN post for searches
23:38:59	disruptek	oh right, i've seen that thread.
23:40:29	disruptek	that codeweavers gig looks up your alley.
23:40:52	FromGitter	<zacharycarter> mmm let me look
23:42:03	FromGitter	<zacharycarter> thanks - yeah that does sound cool
23:42:06	FromGitter	<zacharycarter> I'll shoot them over a copy of my resume
23:42:24	disruptek	nice.
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