<< 14-10-2025 >>
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05:24:59FromDiscord<kiloneie> In reply to @lan_maneiro "where is the best": https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLvwc2YT9MFOlPPexrsY-t7BNTdg2Vsx06 my videos on Nim, a bit more on the channel for SDL and the like.
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07:18:32FromDiscord<systemblue2010> I think Nim community should promote why nim lang is good alternative plan for migrating legacy codes(C, C++)↵Nim can do reverse FFI by exportc(if you use only basic system)↵it's very big merit
07:21:32FromDiscord<systemblue2010> many Rust community and Rust users promote their language and ↵ask open source developers to migrate legacy code to Rust↵and it is so obessive that some open source developers hate rust because of this community's attitude and↵rust's hard learning curve
07:24:59FromDiscord<systemblue2010> but↵Nim is easy then Rust, and have similar syntax with Python and have powerful FFI with C/C++(even reverse FFI)↵and have powerful metaprogramming and type safety and memory safety is quite good(ORC), and even have high performance(C's 90%!!! faster then Rust)↵and channel's parallelism
07:40:18FromDiscord<kiloneie> Is there a way to obtain a module's name and path, if it is NOT the main module/running application ? Say if i wanted to import some modules, and have those modules echo their own names and paths from their own modules as they are imported ?
07:42:22FromDiscord<ieltan> sent a long message, see https://pasty.ee/OLuMbXHv
07:42:51FromDiscord<ieltan> Those are some issues newbies eventually get hit by
07:43:19FromDiscord<ieltan> (edit) "https://pasty.ee/WcgsDOVi" => "https://pasty.ee/ddRNHHOg"
07:47:29FromDiscord<ieltan> Well I guess exportc is also nice for debugging cause it disable symbol mangling
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08:52:50FromDiscord<lainlaylie> In reply to @kiloneie "Is there a way": currentSourcePath
09:44:38Amun-Rakiloneie: yes, there is
09:47:20Amun-Rahttps://play.nim-lang.org/#pasty=OCqLgTcH
09:48:00Amun-Rathis is the way I do it for a few years, it works so I don't change it
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10:57:55FromDiscord<nervecenter> In reply to @systemblue2010 "many Rust community and": Rust also has one heck of a budget from Mozilla
11:18:39FromDiscord<systemblue2010> In reply to @nervecenter "Rust also has one": but we have to promote Nim to other open source community that don't want to use Rust
11:19:06FromDiscord<systemblue2010> some communities(like library developers ) are having problem with Rust FFI
11:19:56FromDiscord<systemblue2010> In reply to @nervecenter "Rust also has one": we don't have any money QQQ
11:20:31FromDiscord<systemblue2010> but promoting language don't need money
11:20:44FromDiscord<systemblue2010> just need your community power
11:20:56FromDiscord<systemblue2010> talking on discord, librechat, matrix, github, redit
11:21:11FromDiscord<systemblue2010> go to open source community and let's promote nim
11:21:32FromDiscord<systemblue2010> we have to make Nim Promoting Team
11:21:49FromDiscord<nervecenter> Given that Zig and Odin seem to have greater mindshare, developers are finding out about them...how? Forums, blogs, HN? We'd probably have to match their blogging output or some such to increase visibility. Which means people have to want to write about their experiences. Can't really be forced because they don't have a budget either.
11:21:51FromDiscord<systemblue2010> our language is wonderful but many people don't know it
11:22:26FromDiscord<nervecenter> I don't think the other languages have a "promoting team" mroeso than people just writing about it constantly in visible places
11:22:27FromDiscord<systemblue2010> Okay
11:22:33FromDiscord<nervecenter> (edit) "mroeso" => "moreso"
11:22:45FromDiscord<systemblue2010> then I will make Nim blog and Nim book
11:23:54FromDiscord<nervecenter> I probably should've started some sort of blog for my current employment, but it's a very protective industry where everything is proprietary and under wraps unfortunately
11:34:23FromDiscord<aethrvmn> In reply to @nervecenter "Given that Zig and": Astroturfing to some extent I'd assume, like another language that was astroturfed by the US government
11:38:30FromDiscord<nervecenter> Is that so?
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12:06:13FromDiscord<0xfab_10> doubt
12:06:31FromDiscord<0xfab_10> it's probably because their authors want to get people to use their langs
12:06:55FromDiscord<0xfab_10> and they look more like C is probably another reason
12:07:03FromDiscord<0xfab_10> nim is in a weird position
12:15:18FromDiscord<janakali> In reply to @nervecenter "Given that Zig and": Both creators of Zig and Odin are public, like-able figures that are very active on social media.↵Also, both languages are very safe C alternatives that are advertised as `C (but with X and Y)`, so it is appealing to people who feel comfortable with C.
12:15:25FromDiscord<janakali> Nim has Python-like syntax and that is like poison to C developers, they hate it. Automatic memory management is another thing they despise.
12:16:09FromDiscord<janakali> We can advertise Nim as faster compiled language to Python devs.
12:20:52FromDiscord<janakali> Also Nim excels at the Go niche, macros, real enums, generics, OOP, flexible syntax etc. etc.
12:21:13FromDiscord<ayex> the python folks love it though. 😉↵(@janakali)
12:21:27FromDiscord<lainlaylie> just out of curiosity, what do people generally see as the goal of getting more people to use nim? bigger ecosystem, more libraries we can use? more donations?
12:21:40FromDiscord<janakali> Jobs?
12:21:50FromDiscord<lainlaylie> i see...
12:23:08FromDiscord<alexander888alexander> In reply to @lainlaylie "just out of curiosity,": more tutorials
12:23:18FromDiscord<alexander888alexander> I still can't get sdl2 to work
12:24:41FromDiscord<manekobox> probably more help with making Nim bindings↵I just joined this community but I've heard things like GUI bindings aren't very complete
12:25:05FromDiscord<manekobox> (edit) "probably more help with making Nim bindings↵I just joined this community ... but" added "so I don't know a lot"
12:30:18FromDiscord<aintea> In reply to @lainlaylie "just out of curiosity,": Making the ecosystem better
12:30:44FromDiscord<aintea> One of the reasons python is so great is because there is a library for everything, even some obscure services nobody uses anymore, and all that made by the community
12:31:29FromDiscord<aintea> More people => better libraries/tools => more people => `goto 0x000000000`
12:34:05FromDiscord<janakali> it's not always like that
12:34:05FromDiscord<janakali> javascript is popular => more libraries => people hate it => more people => `goto 0`
12:34:44FromDiscord<janakali> (edit) "=>" => "??>"
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12:36:25FromDiscord<mitranim> Yep, ended up writing my own "JS standard library" in the end
12:36:28Amun-Rajavascript is popular for there are no alternatives
12:39:22FromDiscord<janakali> In reply to @Amun-Ra "javascript is popular for": Nim is a javascript alternative technically
12:42:34FromDiscord<janakali> also, it doesn't excuse js on the backend
12:44:02Amun-Rajanakali: not in client-side browser world
12:44:26Amun-Rait may be seen as an alternative for transpiling to js, but that's not what I mean by an alternative
12:45:02FromDiscord<mitranim> Sadly there _is_ an excuse for JS on the backend: sharing code in hybrid apps. Our company's frontend is an SSR/SPA hybrid (using my rendering framework which has nifty support for that), so it has to run a Deno server for the SSR component. However, it _only_ handles rendering. Everything else is done in the Go API backend.
12:46:13FromDiscord<mitranim> Similarly, I recently wrote an app which is SPA-only, but still needs to share all sorts of logic with the API backend, so it was simpler to write the backend in JS. But the app is small and hobby, and I'd never recommend doing this in a company project
12:46:40FromDiscord<mitranim> For future projects I'll probably try using Nim in both environments
12:52:48FromDiscord<pseudosig> In reply to @ayex "the python folks love": Hi, first time posting (lurking for a while) 👋 ↵I love Nim, and my primary usage is building Python modules with it. My general usecases involve a lot of AI/ML and a lot of complicated algorithms/maths and Nim makes optimization and speed a low-friction language & ecosystem to make that all possible.
12:53:10FromDiscord<pseudosig> (edit) "algorithms/maths" => " algorithms/maths"
12:58:04FromDiscord<nnsee> sent a long message, see https://pasty.ee/LhENHFqV
12:58:32FromDiscord<nnsee> maybe I'm just missing something
13:03:20FromDiscord<mitranim> sent a long message, see https://pasty.ee/DvPoTFnB
13:03:40FromDiscord<mitranim> But SSR complicates the architecture and maintenance, so it's not worth for _every_ project
13:43:33FromDiscord<choltreppe> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#pasty=SQxvppCT
13:46:53FromDiscord<nasuray> what does your `.nimble` look like? and what version of `nimble` are you using?
13:49:47FromDiscord<janakali> Is it just me or this repo is empty. I only see the Readme file 0_o↵https://github.com/seaqt/nim-seaqt
13:49:51FromDiscord<nnsee> You need to use a specific tag
13:49:56FromDiscord<nnsee> ie `requires "https://github.com/seaqt/nim-seaqt.git@#qt-6.4"`
13:49:59FromDiscord<nnsee> depending on your qt version
13:51:19FromDiscord<janakali> nvm there are branches
13:51:44FromDiscord<nnsee> yeah, s/tag/branch/
14:04:45FromDiscord<choltreppe> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#pasty=lgRtUHTt
14:08:35FromDiscord<kiloneie> In reply to @alexander888alexander "I still can't get": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x76fT8GG0Pk&list=PLvwc2YT9MFOnIQpUj37ZcyAK5rqFK5Oh5 My 3 SDL 2.0 tutorials, also check my comments in the first one. Linux install is much easier. If you need more help, @ me, so i can help and improve info on the first video.
14:15:57FromDiscord<zumi.dxy> In reply to @lainlaylie "just out of curiosity,": my pick is an LSP that doesn't crash and "good (unspecified)" tooling
14:15:59FromDiscord<mitranim> Your Nim intro series is an extremely gentle introduction that even people entirely new to programming should be able to understand. I've linked it to a friend whom I've been bugging since forever to start 😄
14:16:32FromDiscord<0xfab_10> In reply to @janakali "Also Nim excels at": except concurrency :P
14:16:39FromDiscord<zumi.dxy> whenever I'm programming golang it's half autocompletion basically
14:17:15FromDiscord<systemblue2010> In reply to @janakali "Nim has Python-like syntax": but I think some C developer thinks C is hard and unsafe so↵I think we have to advertise Nim as faster compiled Python and easy safe C too
14:17:25FromDiscord<zumi.dxy> In reply to @fabric.input_output "except concurrency :P": oh yeah that's go's bread and butter↵no need to think about scheduling, async management etc. there's a runtime that'll handle that for you
14:17:43FromDiscord<zumi.dxy> In reply to @systemblue2010 "but I think some": do anyone ever mention mojo anymore
14:17:47FromDiscord<systemblue2010> In reply to @choltreppe "yes I used the": are you binding qt?↵can I add you friend?
14:18:58FromDiscord<systemblue2010> In reply to @zumi.dxy "do anyone ever mention": mojo lol ↵mojo is our competiter but I think mojo can't use in community or project because it is closed source and so unstable
14:19:08FromDiscord<kiloneie> In reply to @mitranim "Your Nim intro series": Thank you, in retrospect, i wish it was even better, i had great ambitions, but ended up hating doing it, i've still got a few that i owe to do. Maybe if i am my own boss, i will have more enjoyment making them again, last time i spent 20 hours straight on them and burned myself the hell out.
14:19:30FromDiscord<kiloneie> In reply to @kiloneie "Thank you, in retrospect,": That was the plan, intro to beginners to programming, not just Nim.
14:19:35FromDiscord<mitranim> I feel ya, my Astroneer tips and tricks series was very tiring to make
14:19:46FromDiscord<zumi.dxy> sent a long message, see https://pasty.ee/hWSvGhjM
14:20:55FromDiscord<zumi.dxy> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#pasty=zybpIFfF
14:21:12FromDiscord<zumi.dxy> such a satisfying early-return pattern
14:21:17FromDiscord<kiloneie> In reply to @mitranim "I feel ya, my": The worst part was, the shortest, the recording and editing. Recording because, i found things i didn't like whilst recording, and had to fix, which often took me to way longer recordings that wanted. Took too many takes, thus frustrating the hell out of myself. And Editing, i just wanted to be done with the video, so it felt like an extreme chore.
14:23:08FromDiscord<kiloneie> I enjoyed making gaming ones, making stupid edits and the like, but they got me like 0-11 views...
14:23:39FromDiscord<0xfab_10> I like nim because it has return-less returns :]
14:24:04FromDiscord<0xfab_10> expression oriented type thing
14:24:07FromDiscord<kiloneie> In reply to @lainlaylie "currentSourcePath": Doesn't do anything when not the main module...
14:24:59FromDiscord<kiloneie> In reply to @kiloneie "I enjoyed making gaming": I've written down several ideas on how to make them faster, better and shorter, and maybe even enjoyable... but, i want to get further with my game/game engine first.
14:30:39FromDiscord<kiloneie> In reply to @Amun-Ra "https://play.nim-lang.org/#pasty=OCqLgTcH": This works, though, very non-Nim like style. Thank you!
14:36:44FromDiscord<lainlaylie> In reply to @kiloneie "Doesn't do anything when": it works though, i tried it myself
14:37:09FromDiscord<kiloneie> If i put it in main.nim and call it, yes. If i import module B who calls and runs it, nothing.
14:37:26FromDiscord<lainlaylie> i tried exactly that and it works
14:37:31FromDiscord<lainlaylie> even if you have nested imports
14:37:39FromDiscord<kiloneie> Wait
14:37:45FromDiscord<kiloneie> i may have done a mistake
14:40:16FromDiscord<kiloneie> Yeh, i didn't even think, i just put the code inside playerMain's code, which starts with `when isMainModule` <.<...
14:42:30FromDiscord<kiloneie> As much as i like Amun-Ra's solution, i have done that in a longer, more me friendly style already, but for the getAppFilename(). Thanks anyways. I keep seeing procs i've missed.
14:42:38FromDiscord<kiloneie> (edit) "procs" => "ROUTINES"
14:57:31FromDiscord<kiloneie> (i lied, im taking Amun-Ra's solution :P. So many ways to do the same thing, i'd rather have 2 similar solutions, than 2 identical ones, more versatility... and such)
15:17:26FromDiscord<prestosilver> It's always irritated me how nim has to handle host leaking while cross compiling, everything is treated as the target (if you do -d windows, it's defined at comptime) which means functions that work with paths and use proper stdlib will break when cross comp Linux -> windows
15:17:35FromDiscord<prestosilver> I've had to patch so many libraries for this
15:19:04FromDiscord<prestosilver> (edit) removed "has" | "handle" => "handles"
15:22:47FromDiscord<prestosilver> Probably a weird side effect of the fact that nims compile time is probably not really initially designed with huge file manipulation tasks, like asset packing or code gen in mind (all conjecture want paying attention back then so no clue if that's really the reason)
15:22:59FromDiscord<prestosilver> (edit) "want" => "wasn't"
15:23:22FromDiscord<prestosilver> (edit) "is" => "was"
15:26:26FromDiscord<prestosilver> That's honestly 90% of the reason I bandwagoned away from using nim with every new project I had lmao
15:29:03FromDiscord<prestosilver> That and I write way to many dsls in nim, so not using it is faster even though it's the lang I've used the most
15:29:17FromDiscord<prestosilver> (edit) "That and I write way to many dsls in nim, so not using it is faster even though it's the lang I've used the most ... " added "🤡"
15:33:19FromDiscord<kiloneie> Do we have transparency, alpha, opacity for colors/terminal ?
15:33:31FromDiscord<kiloneie> Searching for the second time, i cannot find it.
15:33:54FromDiscord<prestosilver> In stdlib?
15:39:09FromDiscord<kiloneie> Yeh.
15:39:48FromDiscord<prestosilver> Probably not, it's not a thing in every terminal so id assume its omitted in favor of using escape codes
15:40:18FromDiscord<kiloneie> Escape codes ? wdym ?
15:41:01FromDiscord<prestosilver> The stdlib functions are just shorthands for printing escape codes
15:42:15FromDiscord<prestosilver> Iirc you can print "\033[49m" to switch to the transparent bg color, it honestly might be in an enum somewhere though
15:42:34FromDiscord<prestosilver> Lemme double check the docs
15:43:37FromDiscord<prestosilver> Yea i don't see it
15:43:52FromDiscord<kiloneie> It's fine, i don't really need it.
15:43:53FromDiscord<nasuray> In reply to @choltreppe "yes I used the": this is setting it to a version without a tag https://github.com/seaqt/nimqml-seaqt/blob/4edf19c538e0538be3bd5017f38e9fde7eaf32bc/nimqml.nimble#L12 and is likely the source of the issue, seems like an oversight that nim-seaqt is included in the nimble file
15:45:51FromDiscord<nasuray> In reply to @kiloneie "Do we have transparency,": you can use terminal.Style to make them dim (if you mean something like the opacity of a specific emulator that's way outside the scope of a stdlib)
15:47:06FromDiscord<prestosilver> I honestly didn't know per character transparency was even a thing
15:47:37FromDiscord<prestosilver> I had never googled it tho so that's probably why
16:04:17FromDiscord<kiloneie> In reply to @Amun-Ra "<@398205119583485964>: yes, there is": This tells you from where a routine is defined, is being called from. Whilst currentSourcePath(), gets you the module name. I will have a use for instantiationInfo soon enough.
16:04:37FromDiscord<nervecenter> sent a long message, see https://pasty.ee/CVMuJtbT
16:04:44FromDiscord<nervecenter> (edit) "https://pasty.ee/kNoLaWRF" => "https://pasty.ee/BjVFLtEx"
16:04:47FromDiscord<nervecenter> (edit) "https://pasty.ee/AoTxvXyU" => "https://pasty.ee/JgxUjjBu"
16:06:45FromDiscord<nervecenter> My latest job has been one of those experiences that'll color my perceptions forever.
16:09:57FromDiscord<kiloneie> What does "std/private/ospaths2" mean ? In devel ?
16:11:16FromDiscord<prestosilver> In reply to @lainlaylie "just out of curiosity,": I think a bigger ecosystem would help nim a lot, one of my biggest issues with the lang is the general interproject inconsistency there is, so having a lot more people writing nim means alot more people having issues with formatting, which means more GitHub issues in libraries, and more people actually fixing it
16:12:21FromDiscord<prestosilver> But also more people to want the language to be consistent, and so likely more people dividing standards/tooling for that
16:12:58FromDiscord<prestosilver> (edit) "But also ... morewould" added "it'd be nice bc" | "it'd be nice bcmore people ... tomake" added "would want" | "want" => "make" | "dividing" => "making"
16:17:32FromDiscord<mitranim> In reply to @kiloneie "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x76fT8GG0Pk&list=PL": Watching the first video, seems silly that you have to spam `addr` when using a Nim wrapper, basically all the code is memory-unsafe
16:17:52FromDiscord<mitranim> (edit) "In reply to @kiloneie "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x76fT8GG0Pk&list=PL": Watching the first video, seems silly that you have to spam `addr` when using a Nim wrapper, basically all the code is memory-unsafe ... " added "(potentially)"
16:19:30FromDiscord<prestosilver> Wait wth those are your videos 0_0, man I remember binging that first series a long while back lmao
16:19:31FromDiscord<prestosilver> Man
16:23:29FromDiscord<prestosilver> In reply to @mitranim "Watching the first video,": Honestly if you're doing ffi with a large library this is unfortunately the best case for performance
16:23:45FromDiscord<prestosilver> Though var is nice if your not feeding a const
16:24:04FromDiscord<prestosilver> Not sure if that's ub though, I see it all the time
16:24:14FromDiscord<prestosilver> (edit) "Not sure if that's ub though, I see it all the time ... " added "so thinking no"
16:24:50FromDiscord<prestosilver> Wrapping in a ref is the suggested method as your not dealing with the symmetric functions from c
16:25:02FromDiscord<prestosilver> But in a huge lib you have to do that for every struct
16:25:47FromDiscord<prestosilver> So like, if you have the time go for it lmao people will dig it, but man it's time consuming
16:26:30FromDiscord<prestosilver> I prefer to do templating stuff over that type of change first when wrapping tho
16:28:13FromDiscord<prestosilver> https://github.com/prestosilver/steamworksgen-nim
16:29:14FromDiscord<prestosilver> Something like this is imho much better improvement than cleaning out free/deinit calls and making stuff immediately safe, matter of opinion tho
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16:29:37FromDiscord<kiloneie> In reply to @prestosilver "Wait wth those are": I wanted to make hundreds, de facto channel for Nim, but i disappointed myself.
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16:33:54FromDiscord<kiloneie> In reply to @mitranim "Watching the first video,": I remember having to update the description and add a comment because some sdl dll sources were moved. If my update helped, or not, if you are on Windows, let me know. I've updated info on those videos several times. I do NOT intend to be one of those, that has un answered comments for over a decade. There are a few, but i chose not to, i don't answer crazy.
16:40:47FromDiscord<prestosilver> Nim is honestly really good for learning stuff, it has c level types but also Java like refs. It is also really easy to translate c code directly to nim, so pretty much all docs about c stuff translate easyish. And the macros mean that people could make libraries that let you learn fp paradigms and stuff that's not in the language already.
16:41:27FromDiscord<prestosilver> It's my go-to when I want to test a library but don't feel like writing the boilerplate required in c
16:42:00FromDiscord<prestosilver> Wrapping ffi is simple enough that doing it as I go is not out of the question
16:42:18FromDiscord<prestosilver> (edit) "Wrapping ... ffi" added "the"
16:42:56FromDiscord<nasuray> In reply to @kiloneie "What does "std/private/ospaths2" mean": its where things related to `Path` are implemented but shouldn't be imported unless you know what you are doing (these modules are imported and re-exported by `os`)
16:43:29FromDiscord<prestosilver> Plat dependent id assume?
16:43:38FromDiscord<prestosilver> I've never looked at how nims std is structured
16:43:51FromDiscord<prestosilver> (edit) "Plat dependent ... id" added "stuff"
16:44:06FromDiscord<prestosilver> (edit) "I've never looked at how nims std is structured ... " added "curious now too"
16:47:25FromDiscord<nasuray> In reply to @prestosilver "I've never looked at": it's low key cursed
16:47:55FromDiscord<prestosilver> As most are
16:47:58FromDiscord<prestosilver> 😭
16:48:37FromDiscord<prestosilver> I really like grugs standard library, it's a list of functions and what to call them, there is no implementation
16:49:07FromDiscord<prestosilver> Or at least that's the planed one
16:49:28FromDiscord<prestosilver> Embeddable scripting language moment
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18:53:59FromDiscord<kiloneie> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#pasty=EFBDljCG
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18:56:45FromDiscord<kiloneie> (display is macro that does what echo does, but also displays the identifiers and routines used in ``.)
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19:11:54FromDiscord<demotomohiro> In reply to @kiloneie "I don't get it.": https://nim-lang.org/docs/macros.html#getProjectPath
19:12:19FromDiscord<demotomohiro> or https://nim-lang.org/docs/system.html#instantiationInfo%2Cint
19:15:25Amun-RaI even posted an example using the latter ;)
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19:31:02FromDiscord<kiloneie> In reply to @Amun-Ra "I even posted an": And then, thinking they both did the same thing with just 1 module running, not noticing the wrong behavior, ditched your solution...
19:31:16FromDiscord<lan_maneiro> In reply to @kiloneie "https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLvwc2YT9MFOl": thanks!
19:31:16FromDiscord<kiloneie> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#pasty=dIkiBhZD
19:31:53FromDiscord<kiloneie> Now i gotta stop, before i burn myself tonight...
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