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| 00:06:22 | disruptek | some asshole. |
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| 00:12:01 | disruptek | leorize: don't be afraid of writing a dispatcher. it's trivial. |
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| 00:12:37 | disruptek | lqdev: is it still the case that, for you, software that takes 10-20 seconds to compile is "excruciatingly slow to compile"? |
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| 00:56:46 | FromDiscord | <VVX7> quick dumb question. what does `echo hostOS` output on a Mac? |
| 00:57:38 | FromDiscord | <VVX7> should be `macosx` or `macosx` ? I dont have a Mac to check it on. |
| 00:58:29 | FromDiscord | <VVX7> (edit) "`macosx`" => "`macos`" |
| 01:00:12 | FromDiscord | <VVX7> nvm I guess it's documented here: https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/blob/1d8b7aa07ca9989b80dd758d66c7f4ba7dc533f7/lib/system.nim#L1062 |
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| 01:08:45 | FromDiscord | <ElegantBeef> https://nim-lang.org/docs/system.html#hostOS |
| 01:39:51 | leorize | disruptek: sure, I can give it a go |
| 01:39:59 | leorize | any bug in cps that I should know about? |
| 01:40:40 | leorize | and I heard you said something about "multi dispatcher" for cps and I have yet to understand how would that work |
| 01:40:57 | FromDiscord | <Avatarfighter> i think for loops don't work still in cps but that's not really a cps bug |
| 01:41:00 | leorize | or are you gonna provide a dispatcher for dispatcher? :P |
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| 02:08:47 | disruptek | leorize: if it's too big a pita, show me and i'll write it. |
| 02:09:34 | disruptek | for loops don't work and it might be a bit before they do. |
| 02:09:53 | disruptek | i mean, they code works, but you cannot suspend a continuation inside a for. |
| 02:11:06 | disruptek | we tried just rewriting the transform that rewrites the for loop in the first place, but the transform the compiler gives us is not valid ast, so we'd have to rewrite /that/ at a minimum and, i dunno, i think i'd rather not rely on broken code in in the first place. |
| 02:12:19 | disruptek | leorize: the two bugs i posted to nim today are the main things to be wary of -- shadowing (try not to) and a compiler crash that might be tricky to code around. |
| 02:12:46 | leorize[m] | luckily the kind of IO I do doesn't use for loops |
| 02:12:56 | disruptek | there can be as many dispatchers in cps as you want. |
| 02:13:45 | disruptek | eventqueue offers both two dispatchers, for example: trampoline() is a dispatcher, as is run() |
| 02:15:08 | disruptek | so .gitmodules is not parseable by parsecfg. 😢 |
| 02:15:40 | leorize[m] | just call git to query for it |
| 02:15:48 | leorize[m] | git is like the ultimate cli tool out there |
| 02:15:59 | disruptek | i can't; foreach is based upon /checked-out/ submodules. |
| 02:16:24 | disruptek | might be able to use the json-based cli interface. |
| 02:16:43 | disruptek | else, just parse the .gitmodules naively. it's not /that/ hard, christ. |
| 02:17:54 | disruptek | or maybe we just use `git submodule` output; no less crude, but probably more robust. |
| 02:28:49 | FromDiscord | <flywind> I already made a PR to track testament regression. |
| 02:29:04 | FromDiscord | <flywind> https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/pull/16679 |
| 02:29:05 | disbot | ➥ add error messages |
| 02:29:35 | FromDiscord | <flywind> `testament r single_test_file` even doesn't work for compiler tests for me. |
| 02:34:05 | disruptek | flywind: what are your thoughts on #16447? |
| 02:34:07 | disbot | https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/issues/16447 -- 3testament fails for packages that require $NIMBLE_DIR/bin in PATH ; snippet at 12https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=2LQ3 |
| 02:37:17 | FromDiscord | <flywind> no idea, but I can check it later. |
| 02:37:43 | leorize[m] | in a way I think it could be nimble issue also |
| 02:38:16 | leorize[m] | npm for example add into PATH any binaries installed via it before running tasks |
| 02:38:52 | leorize[m] | they even provide a simple npx wrapper that basically just add things to PATH then run whatever executable you specified |
| 02:45:33 | FromDiscord | <flywind> After my PR, it does hint me what the error is |
| 02:45:35 | FromDiscord | <flywind> Error: unhandled exception: testament.nim(798, 13) `dirExists(nimRoot / testsDir)` D:\a\nightlies\nightlies\nim-1.5.1\tests\ doesn't exist! [AssertionDefect] |
| 02:46:13 | FromDiscord | <flywind> It is really terrible I think; |
| 02:47:05 | FromDiscord | <flywind> https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/pull/16679 |
| 02:47:05 | disbot | ➥ add error messages |
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| 03:20:01 | leorize[m] | @flywind imo you should just get rid of that check |
| 03:20:06 | leorize[m] | it's stupid |
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| 03:20:40 | leorize[m] | or you can make it so that it checks if the file is in the `tests` folder relative to the current directory |
| 03:23:54 | FromDiscord | <flywind> I see, will try it. |
| 03:24:35 | leorize[m] | timothee abused compile time in that proc |
| 03:24:43 | leorize[m] | check* |
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| 04:01:29 | leorize[m] | disruptek: what exactly is the cpsmagic macro? |
| 04:01:56 | disruptek | it just rewrites a proc so that it can be called with the continuation inside cps. |
| 04:02:04 | disruptek | or something. |
| 04:02:36 | disruptek | ## upgrade cps primitives to generate errors out of context |
| 04:02:37 | disruptek | ## and take continuations as input inside {.cps.} blocks |
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| 04:05:00 | disruptek | anyone here have experience with strscans? |
| 04:05:21 | leorize[m] | ok, so basically I would want to use it for creating primitives for my dispatcher? |
| 04:05:28 | disruptek | exactly, yes. |
| 04:06:01 | disruptek | you can rip a lot of code from eventqueue or just copy it and rewrite it to your purposes. |
| 04:06:35 | leorize[m] | sure, but I gotta think it out a bit more first |
| 04:06:37 | disruptek | it's probably not a great piece of engineering, though. |
| 04:06:50 | leorize[m] | windows iocp is a pain |
| 04:07:06 | disruptek | i know. flywind knows about this stuff, too, i think. |
| 04:07:53 | leorize[m] | mainly because of the way you would use it |
| 04:08:02 | leorize[m] | but I think I will figure out an api |
| 04:09:20 | disruptek | whaddya mean? |
| 04:13:48 | leorize[m] | IOCP is: do this action then wait for signal that it is finished |
| 04:14:06 | disruptek | do you poll for the signal or...? |
| 04:14:09 | leorize[m] | POSIX is: do this action when the device is not busy |
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| 05:00:50 | ForumUpdaterBot | New post on r/nim by comsiccuttlefish: Why Go instead of Nim?, see https://www.reddit.com/r/nim/comments/kxngyv/why_go_instead_of_nim/ |
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| 05:20:47 | disruptek | Error: unhandled exception: timotheecour was here [Defect] |
| 05:20:52 | disruptek | you hate to see it. |
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| 07:08:53 | ForumUpdaterBot | New thread by Lotzz: NiGUI: Custom widgets, see https://forum.nim-lang.org/t/7389 |
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| 07:46:40 | FromDiscord | <Varriount> You can poll for the signal, or have a callback be called (though I don't remember how that works precisely). |
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| 07:47:24 | FromDiscord | <Varriount> You can also wait for the signal, rather than polling. |
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| 08:11:10 | haxscramper | disruptek: It helped partially - I missed `notes*` fields, so now I know how to configure hints, but the problem is `hintLineTooLong` is emited by parser/lexer directly, and there is only check for error handler (e.g. configuration is not accessed in `dispMessage` for lexer, even though it is present). |
| 08:11:27 | haxscramper | Maybe I missed something, but removing `hintLineTooLong` didn't help |
| 08:13:17 | haxscramper | shadow: C++ bindings are working, but not exactly finished - I've already used them to wrap https://github.com/haxscramper/nimtrail , but there are a lot of rough edges that need to be addressed before I can claim it working |
| 08:16:03 | haxscramper | shadow.: So for now I would recommend wrapping things manually |
| 08:16:15 | disruptek | ~gitnim |
| 08:16:16 | disbot | gitnim: 11https://gitnim.com/ -- choosenim for choosey nimions -- disruptek |
| 08:16:28 | disruptek | added much more documentation for haxscramper. |
| 08:16:50 | FromDiscord | <haxscramper> @shadow. |
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| 08:43:20 | FromDiscord | <lqdev> disruptek: still very much yes. keep in mind that i write games and software. so i compile my program, wait 10 seconds until that finishes, and test. it looks off, so i go back to my text editor to tweak it by some amount. now i have to wait another 10 seconds until i can continue! not to mention the fact that i have to wait 10 seconds until my editor shows me whether i made an error or not! |
| 08:44:46 | FromDiscord | <ElegantBeef> Seems like you need a dev UI editor |
| 08:48:16 | FromDiscord | <lqdev> yes beef, what else, switch to Qt? |
| 08:54:09 | FromDiscord | <ElegantBeef> I mean an GUI inspection system |
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| 08:59:22 | saem | That feels like a work around. |
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| 09:01:34 | FromDiscord | <ElegantBeef> Well if he's recompiling just to change values it seems like a serialized inspector that can reload the values is less of a work around and just a solution |
| 09:05:48 | FromDiscord | <lqdev> quite an expensive solution though |
| 09:06:16 | FromDiscord | <lqdev> i'm not feeling up to the task of writing a tool like this. |
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| 09:07:33 | ForumUpdaterBot | New question by Alex Craft: How to write function similar to `echo` in Nim?, see https://stackoverflow.com/questions/65733219/how-to-write-function-similar-to-echo-in-nim |
| 09:11:21 | FromDiscord | <ElegantBeef> Yea i think impbox was thinking about something similar, and i like the idea so i might try to make a serializing library eventually to do it |
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| 10:02:04 | adnan338 | Just submitted my first nim app to flatpak :) |
| 10:02:09 | adnan338 | flathub* |
| 10:02:35 | FromDiscord | <ElegantBeef> Congrats |
| 10:03:05 | FromDiscord | <ElegantBeef> What's the application? |
| 10:03:54 | adnan338 | It's just a personal invoice generation tool, thought it'd be cool to experiment with nim and gtk and do something that's personally useful |
| 10:04:01 | adnan338 | https://gitlab.com/9898287/invoicer/-/blob/master/com.gitlab.adnan338.Invoicer.yaml |
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| 11:02:44 | adnan338 | Hello, is https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/releases only for x86_64 builds? Where are the prebuilt binaries for AArch64? |
| 11:09:30 | ForumUpdaterBot | New thread by Adnan: Where are the prebuilt binaries for AArch64?, see https://forum.nim-lang.org/t/7390 |
| 11:14:50 | PMunch | Hmm, have anyone written anything on multi-threading with ARC/ORC in Nim yet? |
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| 11:38:35 | FromDiscord | <lqdev> speaking of which |
| 11:38:48 | FromDiscord | <lqdev> why is allocShared a thing? |
| 11:39:08 | FromDiscord | <lqdev> i mean, if you're allocating memory why would it belong to a specific thread |
| 11:39:12 | FromDiscord | <lqdev> it's just memory |
| 11:49:23 | PMunch | Each thread has its own heap in Nim |
| 11:49:58 | PMunch | I'm guessing alloc would allocate on the thread-specific heap and allocShared would allocate it outside of any particular threads heap |
| 11:50:00 | PMunch | brb |
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| 12:10:22 | FromGitter | <gogolxdong> What is `Error: internal error: yield in expr not lowered` |
| 12:12:26 | FromDiscord | <lqdev> @gogolxdong it's a bug. |
| 12:12:52 | FromDiscord | <lqdev> PMunch: well but then why allocate outside of a particular thread's heap, what advantages does it have |
| 12:13:03 | FromDiscord | <lqdev> memory allocated with alloc isn't GC'd anyways |
| 12:13:32 | FromGitter | <gogolxdong> when will it be fixed? |
| 12:13:51 | FromGitter | <gogolxdong> It seems from parseInt? |
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| 12:20:07 | PMunch | @lqdev, dunno |
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| 12:30:22 | FromDiscord | <ag> Maybe memory sharing for lock-free concurrent data structures? |
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| 12:32:30 | FromDiscord | <ag> I'm just guessing, never implemented something like that. I did shared memory stuff in C, for sending messages between processes in school. Maybe allocShared is used for things like that |
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| 12:37:01 | PMunch | @lqdev, apparently allocShared allocates memory in a shared memory region behind a lock: https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/blob/version-1-4/lib/system/alloc.nim#L1066 |
| 12:39:25 | FromDiscord | <lqdev> hm, but what would be the point |
| 13:02:00 | FromDiscord | <Rika> Sharing a heap object across threads? |
| 13:02:56 | FromDiscord | <Rika> Oh I assume it’s just a separation thing |
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| 13:24:30 | FromGitter | <gogolxdong> Is there any workaround for this bug? |
| 13:31:27 | FromDiscord | <apollo> someone recommended the Nim In Action book for me. is that a good place to start as a beginner. |
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| 13:38:53 | FromDiscord | <haxscramper> yes |
| 13:38:58 | Clonkk[m] | You can preview it at Mannings I believe |
| 13:39:11 | FromDiscord | <apollo> okay |
| 13:39:14 | FromDiscord | <haxscramper> Though you can view any links from |
| 13:39:16 | FromDiscord | <haxscramper> ~learn |
| 13:39:16 | disbot | learn: 11contains links to lots of interesting articles and tutorials to get started with nim -- haxscramper |
| 13:39:16 | disbot | learn: 11https://nim-lang.org/learn.html |
| 13:39:29 | FromDiscord | <haxscramper> Specifically nim by example |
| 13:41:42 | Clonkk[m] | https://livebook.manning.com/book/nim-in-action/ |
| 13:41:43 | Oddmonger | apollo : yes , go and buy it. It has not everything but it's a good start for a newcomer. |
| 13:41:45 | Clonkk[m] | See for yourself |
| 13:42:23 | Oddmonger | the only real thing which annoy me is the very poor index |
| 13:43:10 | FromDiscord | <apollo> yeah i'll check it out and see for myself before purchasing |
| 13:44:00 | Oddmonger | the metaprogramming part (chapt.9, about macros) is very interesting |
| 13:44:34 | Oddmonger | much better explanations than in the official tutorial, which is rather dry on the subject |
| 13:44:49 | Clonkk[m] | I mostly read the manual these days |
| 13:45:24 | Oddmonger | the manual is good as a reference, once you have understand the subjects it contains |
| 13:45:32 | Clonkk[m] | You also have https://devdocs.io/nim/ that has been updated |
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| 13:46:05 | Clonkk[m] | If you prefer the devdocs format |
| 13:46:43 | Oddmonger | this one is good too: https://github.com/StefanSalewski/NimProgrammingBook |
| 13:47:07 | Oddmonger | very didactic, it should be printed and sold imho |
| 13:47:42 | Clonkk[m] | https://xmonader.github.io/nimdays/ |
| 13:48:16 | Clonkk[m] | https://zevv.nl/nim-memory/#_introduction That talks about how memory is used in Nim also quite interesting to understand what's going on under the hood |
| 13:48:38 | Clonkk[m] | Are also interesting read |
| 13:55:35 | FromDiscord | <lqdev> @gogolxdong kinda hard to tell when we don't have the code |
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| 14:15:44 | FromDiscord | <dom96> Btw if you’re buying Nim in action. Check out the links in https://book.picheta.me, you might be able to get it cheaper through Amazon (and if you use the manning link there I also get an affiliate payout :)) |
| 14:16:17 | FromDiscord | <dom96> I also link to useful resources there |
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| 14:46:13 | FromDiscord | <whisperdev> I am banging my head against desk but I cant compile a dll for fswatch 😄 |
| 14:51:52 | PMunch | Dry banging it at a wall instead |
| 14:53:33 | PMunch | Try* |
| 14:53:59 | PMunch | But seriously, what is your issue with it? I'm compiling Nim DLLs so I might be able to help |
| 14:56:53 | Clonkk[m] | Dry banging sounds like a very different activity |
| 15:00:44 | PMunch | And an uncomfortable one at that |
| 15:01:04 | FromDiscord | <whisperdev> How do you compile fswatch? |
| 15:01:04 | PMunch | Not that banging your head into a desk sounds particularly comfortable :P |
| 15:01:12 | PMunch | Oh I haven't compiled fswatch |
| 15:01:18 | PMunch | But I compile other DLLs |
| 15:01:47 | FromDiscord | <whisperdev> This is the biggest weakness of Nim. Non-pure Nim libraries with their specific installation requirements :/. Go is clearly superior here |
| 15:02:18 | PMunch | How is Go better at that? |
| 15:02:20 | FromDiscord | <lqdev> nah it's the library's fault that it's not user-friendly |
| 15:02:55 | FromDiscord | <whisperdev> Go usually uses pure Go libs |
| 15:04:28 | PMunch | Eh, pros and cons |
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| 15:06:03 | FromDiscord | <lqdev> Araq: how would i go about embedding my app's version in both my app and its nimble file? |
| 15:06:26 | FromDiscord | <lqdev> a while ago i said you wrote you can just create a common module that's imported by the nimble file and the app |
| 15:07:17 | PMunch | I think Nimble sets a define |
| 15:07:23 | FromDiscord | <lqdev> but that doesn't seem to work for me. i've put a version.nim inside of src/myapp, but then i can't really access it via the nimble file |
| 15:07:56 | Oddmonger | with event…mods as uint16, i try this boolean comparison: if event.key.keysym.mods and cast[uint16](KMOD_SHIFT): |
| 15:08:13 | PMunch | Yeah, nimble sets: -d:NimblePkgVersion=0.7.0 |
| 15:08:17 | FromDiscord | <lqdev> no matter what i try `import src/myapp/version as v`, `import myapp/version as v`, `import pkg/myapp/version as v` all fail at some point during `nimble install` |
| 15:08:26 | FromDiscord | <lqdev> PMunch: but that's only when compiling via nimble, no? |
| 15:08:33 | Oddmonger | and i got : «got uint16 but expected bool» |
| 15:08:35 | PMunch | Well yes |
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| 15:09:41 | PMunch | Unless of course you pass that switch if you're not compiling via Nimble (but why would you?) |
| 15:10:15 | PMunch | But yeah, if you add this: `const NimblePkgVersion {.strdefine.} = ""` to your project it will be set up Nimble |
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| 15:17:42 | FromDiscord | <dk> Is there some secret way of dealing with stuck nimsuggest processes other than killing them manually from time to time? |
| 15:18:30 | FromDiscord | <Rika> you uh dont use nimsuggest |
| 15:18:32 | FromDiscord | <Rika> xd |
| 15:18:46 | FromDiscord | <lqdev> Yes |
| 15:18:54 | FromDiscord | <Rika> srs tho avoid macros and templates and shit if you want nimsuggest not to shit itself |
| 15:19:07 | saem | @dk: that's exactly how you deal with it, bring out the kill |
| 15:19:54 | FromDiscord | <exelotl> Yeah I stopped using nimsuggest when the frequency of hangs got too high |
| 15:20:06 | FromDiscord | <dk> pretty much the only thing I miss from other languages is better editor stuff |
| 15:20:11 | saem | Yeah no, those are bugs, especially if you have an easy repro file them. |
| 15:20:53 | FromDiscord | <dk> the only hangs I can repro are the ones that make nimsuggest consume all memory |
| 15:21:14 | FromDiscord | <dk> usually it's a guess if the nimsuggest processes will end after closing the editor |
| 15:21:33 | saem | What editor? |
| 15:21:44 | FromDiscord | <dk> VSCode |
| 15:22:21 | FromDiscord | <dk> But I didn't get the impression that only people using VSCode have these problems |
| 15:22:35 | saem | I thought I improved the termination, but which extension? |
| 15:22:41 | FromDiscord | <dk> yours :) |
| 15:22:47 | saem | LoL |
| 15:23:41 | saem | Yeah, it's common to nimsuggest, which will struggle on certain code. I've been plodding along fixing nimsuggest bugs. |
| 15:24:40 | saem | So they're slowly going away, the easier way to raise the priority for an issue you're encountering is if you can create a minimal failing case. |
| 15:25:34 | FromDiscord | <dk> Another big issue with the tool is that if I modify module A and save it, any compilation errors introduced to modules importing it are not instantly visible |
| 15:25:53 | FromDiscord | <dk> I have to save a file to see if any new errors came up |
| 15:26:04 | saem | That's also a vscode-ism |
| 15:26:11 | FromDiscord | <dk> Oh |
| 15:26:13 | saem | Well partially |
| 15:26:20 | FromDiscord | <dk> Do other editors fix that? |
| 15:26:53 | saem | IIRC it does a Nim check on your projects, which of you haven't defined is the file you're looking at. |
| 15:27:53 | FromDiscord | <dk> But if I define it does the file I'm looking at also get checked? |
| 15:29:24 | saem | Kinda, if it gets imported then it's be checked, but only for the posts that aren't hidden by conditional compilation |
| 15:29:37 | saem | Parts |
| 15:30:00 | saem | So when isMainModule isn't going to get checked. |
| 15:31:21 | saem | Usually not a big deal as running the file will show the errors and I added partial log message parsing to also linking to files |
| 15:32:57 | saem | But ugh, the log output in Nim is annoying as hell to parse when it's multiple lines. Something I'll have to fix later. |
| 15:35:44 | FromDiscord | <dk> Nice, this project setting does what I wanted it to |
| 15:36:44 | saem | Honestly, half the blockers I've had working on the extension itself or the compiler go away after that. |
| 15:38:19 | saem | It means I can focus on issues that aren't easy to work around. |
| 15:38:25 | FromDiscord | <dk> Would it be possible for the extension to automatically treat files declared in `bin` as project files? |
| 15:38:35 | saem | Sigh |
| 15:38:42 | saem | First, fuck nimble |
| 15:38:55 | saem | Sorry, I need to get that out of my system |
| 15:39:08 | FromDiscord | <dk> I'm curious |
| 15:39:13 | saem | Yeah, as a shitty heuristic I can |
| 15:39:19 | FromDiscord | <dk> I have no opinion on it |
| 15:39:49 | saem | But there are issues, they're needless, and I don't want to bother with that tar pit because of it |
| 15:40:05 | saem | But here is the issue |
| 15:40:25 | saem | So the bin works as long as you don't map it |
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| 15:41:06 | saem | If you map it then the json dump no longer shows the original unmapped |
| 15:41:27 | saem | Which means I gotta parse the fucker as text |
| 15:41:42 | Oddmonger | is it possible to compare a int and an enum ? |
| 15:41:51 | Clonkk[m] | Yes |
| 15:42:12 | Oddmonger | the int can be the enum ORed |
| 15:42:43 | Oddmonger | a:int, b:myenum -> if a and b # forbidden |
| 15:42:50 | saem | I also have read the code base and ... I don't believe in the approach and just can't get motivated to touch it unless I'm given the all clear to rip shit up. |
| 15:42:55 | Clonkk[m] | ``ord`` |
| 15:42:57 | Clonkk[m] | proc |
| 15:43:21 | Oddmonger | ah to get the ordinal, i had forgotten this, thank you |
| 15:43:29 | Clonkk[m] | :) |
| 15:44:14 | FromDiscord | <dk> you mean the nimble source in general? |
| 15:44:20 | saem | Yes |
| 15:44:42 | FromDiscord | <dk> would you recommend nimph? |
| 15:45:01 | disruptek | no. |
| 15:45:47 | saem | I haven't used it and so I honestly can't. I only disagree on one thing when it comes to it which is the hard git dependency. |
| 15:46:54 | disruptek | dk: if you can build it easily (run one of the bootstraps), it's worth having around. maybe you will agree with its approach. |
| 15:47:01 | disruptek | if you can't build it, don't worry about it. |
| 15:47:08 | disruptek | plenty of people don't miss it. |
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| 15:50:09 | saem | There is a lot to like about the approach I just wish git wasn't the only source of metadata/thing it understood |
| 15:51:08 | saem | That wish might just need me to go fix it. 😅😝 |
| 15:51:50 | disruptek | we talked about breaking it out to run git as a subprocess, like gitnim. |
| 15:51:51 | FromGitter | <gogolxdong> `import wNim/private/winimx except ShellExecute` ⏎ ⏎ ```code paste, see link``` [https://gitter.im/nim-lang/Nim?at=6001ba169632f63d871c0106] |
| 15:52:03 | disruptek | the problem is that it's not very fast to spawn git so many times. |
| 15:52:31 | FromDiscord | <dom96> > First, fuck nimble↵That’s a strong reaction. Can you elaborate on it? |
| 15:52:34 | disruptek | having git embedded is an enabling feature that allows for more sophisticated and performant behavior. |
| 15:52:53 | FromGitter | <gogolxdong> import has excluded ShellExecute , compiler still give me the same error. |
| 15:57:38 | saem | dom96: it's entirely the wrong data model. Every time I try to interact with it as a person developing tools all the pain and compromises some through. |
| 15:58:24 | saem | There are just gotchas at every corner that I can't even begin to enumerate |
| 15:58:29 | saem | The bin thing |
| 15:58:49 | saem | The incomplete introspection and dumps |
| 15:59:44 | saem | It's very imperative when it comes to tasks |
| 15:59:48 | disruptek | that's not fair. |
| 15:59:59 | disruptek | there are nearly 900 gotchas enumerated in the git repo's issues section. |
| 16:00:26 | saem | True, but they're around the problems and rarely at the heart of it |
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| 16:00:35 | disruptek | true. |
| 16:01:49 | FromGitter | <gogolxdong> I'm not using the shellapi. qualifier, because it probably relatives to `Error: internal error: yield in expr not lowered` |
| 16:02:36 | saem | I mean, I might start believing in nimble if someone can show me a data model (type section) that's shows the fundamental domain model/philosophy and are willing to significantly update it where it went wrong. |
| 16:02:52 | FromDiscord | <dom96> @saem is there is one fundamental design of nimble you’d change, what would it be? |
| 16:03:58 | FromDiscord | <dom96> A few of your points are just bugs, and may or may not be due to how Nimble functions. But rather a consequence of how it was developed (by multiple volunteers) |
| 16:06:34 | saem | Have a fundamental data model and have the nimble file be a truly declarative way to specify it. Starting with, "what is a nimble package" |
| 16:07:21 | saem | That's The crux of it, presently there is no core set of types to reason about our debate |
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| 16:08:35 | FromDiscord | <dom96> So effectively you want to strip away nimscript from Nimble? |
| 16:08:58 | saem | Yeah |
| 16:09:25 | saem | I mean, likely an escape hatch is required, but contain the ever living fuck out of it |
| 16:09:41 | federico3 | saem: I tried to create some distinction between "git repo" and "nimble package" in https://github.com/nim-lang/RFCs/issues/179 and it didn't work... |
| 16:09:41 | disbot | ➥ Nim source packages |
| 16:09:44 | saem | Shit is radio active |
| 16:10:03 | Araq | oh it's this again |
| 16:10:12 | * | hmmm joined #nim |
| 16:10:29 | FromDiscord | <Rika> oh hi there |
| 16:10:35 | Araq | other PMs manage with a scripting language too iirc |
| 16:10:49 | Araq | so write an RFC an gain consensus on removing NimScript from Nimble |
| 16:11:05 | FromDiscord | <lqdev> i don't remember any other PM i've ever used use a scripting language |
| 16:11:09 | FromDiscord | <lqdev> maybe maven and gradle |
| 16:11:15 | Araq | and yeah, you can blame me for that |
| 16:11:23 | FromDiscord | <lqdev> but maven't xml can barely be called a scripting lang |
| 16:11:30 | FromDiscord | <lqdev> so it doesn't count |
| 16:11:37 | Clonkk[m] | <FromDiscord "<lqdev> maybe maven and gradle"> Ivy too |
| 16:11:42 | Araq | it's all my fault, because I've yet to see a "declarative" model that isn'st bad |
| 16:11:55 | FromDiscord | <dom96> @lqdev huh. Most allow at least an external file like setup.py |
| 16:12:18 | FromDiscord | <lqdev> well personally i've never had the need for a setup.py |
| 16:12:32 | FromDiscord | <lqdev> what would such a setup file do anyways? |
| 16:12:45 | FromDiscord | <Rika> an n=1 isnt that high of an n |
| 16:12:46 | FromDiscord | <dom96> The heart of nimble is still declarative though. |
| 16:12:55 | Araq | every PM tool immediately grows support for scripting, Cargo also supports it |
| 16:13:18 | federico3 | setup.py is crucial to most Python packaging and deployment tools |
| 16:13:21 | FromDiscord | <Rika> and dont pms outside of proglangs have a scripting lang in them as well |
| 16:13:30 | saem | The question is not when, but how soon does one need to reach for it |
| 16:13:35 | FromDiscord | <lqdev> pacman sure does |
| 16:13:36 | FromDiscord | <lqdev> brew too |
| 16:14:04 | FromDiscord | <Rika> i believe when and how soon are essentially the same questions |
| 16:14:11 | Araq | saem, the real question is why NimScript is a problem |
| 16:14:12 | FromDiscord | <Clyybber> whats the problem with nimscript in nimble? |
| 16:14:15 | federico3 | there's nothing wrong in the scripting per-se, as long as there are standard interfaces to extract the information needed by other tools |
| 16:14:47 | hmmm | anyone knows if the leorize nvim extension autofolds code? |
| 16:15:00 | saem | Araq: because how does a tool begin to make sense of it? |
| 16:15:00 | Araq | Nimble doesn't even run the NimScript, it asks the Nim compiler to evaluate it, it's rather clean, IMO |
| 16:15:01 | disruptek | it does. |
| 16:15:11 | federico3 | and also standards on how to tell the scripts what to do and not to do |
| 16:15:29 | hmmm | my buddy tek! how do I tell I don't want any folding |
| 16:15:54 | saem | I read the code for that, it wraps the file, overrides a bunch of declarations, and that acts sorta like an interpreter |
| 16:15:55 | FromDiscord | <Clyybber> saem: By evaluating it? |
| 16:16:01 | Araq | saem, the tool asks nimble to "dump" it |
| 16:16:08 | disruptek | hmmm: set nofoldenable |
| 16:16:17 | Clonkk[m] | <hmmm "anyone knows if the leorize nvim"> If you are having issue with Alaviss plugin aut ofolding by default there is a very simple fix. you can just add ``set local foldlevel=99`` to ftplugin/nim.vim |
| 16:16:19 | disruptek | hmmm: in your .vimrc or whatever. |
| 16:17:00 | Araq | cd projects/karax |
| 16:17:01 | Clonkk[m] | set nofoldenable will remove your ability to fold entirely |
| 16:17:05 | Araq | nimble dump --json |
| 16:17:14 | saem | Araq: the dump is largely useless, even if improved, because it doesn't really let you do more that get some bins and some tasks. |
| 16:17:21 | FromDiscord | <Rika> didnt know about nofe |
| 16:17:24 | hmmm | Clonkk ty that's what I want, ty tek too |
| 16:17:34 | * | Clonkk[m] sent a long message: < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/LmreLvxxIhtNLzXphJYSSyGH/message.txt > |
| 16:17:37 | Clonkk[m] | THis is the gitdiff |
| 16:17:45 | FromDiscord | <Rika> i checked in the vim docs, nofe doesnt disable folding |
| 16:17:54 | Araq | saem, it contains the requirements and everything that your "declarative data model" would contain |
| 16:18:33 | FromDiscord | <Rika> ah wait no it does |
| 16:18:38 | FromDiscord | <Rika> i misunderstood lol |
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| 16:19:37 | saem | Araq I agree it needs an RFC, but no I think it definitely falls short of said model as evidenced by how quickly and often test and build tasks are overridden |
| 16:19:43 | hmmm | it work'd! ty all |
| 16:19:47 | Araq | "requires": [ |
| 16:19:48 | Araq | { |
| 16:19:48 | Araq | "name": "nim", |
| 16:19:48 | Araq | "str": ">= 0.18.0", |
| 16:19:48 | Araq | "ver": { |
| 16:19:49 | Araq | "kind": "verEqLater", |
| 16:19:52 | Araq | "ver": "0.18.0" |
| 16:19:54 | Araq | } |
| 16:19:56 | Araq | }, |
| 16:20:03 | saem | I've parsed that json plenty |
| 16:20:35 | Araq | excellent output... even the version syntax tree inside |
| 16:21:42 | federico3 | ...but it contains a fraction of the information that other tools might need |
| 16:22:11 | saem | That about sums it up |
| 16:22:14 | FromDiscord | <Rika> whats missing? |
| 16:23:06 | Araq | yeah, what is missing? |
| 16:23:18 | haxscramper | For custom compiler pass I need to create context on each `passOpen`, correct? |
| 16:23:51 | haxscramper | And if I need some data to persist between contexts that's my responsibility to handle this |
| 16:24:10 | disruptek | where is `nimble dump --json` documented? i've never seen it before. |
| 16:24:12 | haxscramper | create new custom context object on each `passOpen`* |
| 16:24:22 | disruptek | i'm parsing all that shit by hand (well, npeg, but still...) |
| 16:24:23 | Araq | "build tasks" I guess but then 'test' and 'docs' are standard |
| 16:24:42 | Araq | disruptek, dunno, I simply tried the command and it worked |
| 16:25:03 | FromDiscord | <dom96> disruptek: https://github.com/nim-lang/nimble#nimble-dump |
| 16:25:04 | Clonkk[m] | If you type ``nimble`` the helper fives you the list of command |
| 16:25:07 | Clonkk[m] | Dump is listed |
| 16:25:18 | federico3 | tons of metadata, and information on generated file, their use-cases... |
| 16:25:23 | disruptek | i hate that i have to run nimscript on every single package just to evaluate its configuration. |
| 16:26:24 | FromDiscord | <dom96> federico3: can you give specific examples? |
| 16:27:00 | disruptek | oh, that was added after nimph was written. |
| 16:27:10 | disruptek | jeeze, i was about to say... i must be the biggest idiot. |
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| 16:29:01 | FromDiscord | <dom96> The json variant was implemented more recently, yes. 61 LOC. Could've saved yourself a lot of time. |
| 16:29:01 | federico3 | dom96: for example a "hybrid" package can generate a bunch of binaries. Given a binary, is this an application to be installed for the end user? Or demo to be shipped in a different way? Or maybe a unit test tool not to be installed? |
| 16:29:38 | FromDiscord | <dom96> federico3: that's not something that even Nimble knows right now |
| 16:29:46 | federico3 | @dom96: I know |
| 16:29:50 | saem | What's missing are a declaration for how to build. The build task doesn't work, it needs to be reasonable to know what's there and parametrize it |
| 16:30:00 | saem | The list of supported backends |
| 16:30:12 | Araq | "backend": "c" is in the json |
| 16:30:24 | FromDiscord | <dom96> You can build by calling Nimble |
| 16:30:35 | saem | Ugh |
| 16:30:50 | saem | IDEs don't just build a package |
| 16:31:10 | federico3 | @dom96: next example: I want to discover and run lightweight unit tests (real unit tests without side effects) for 200 nimble packages |
| 16:31:15 | saem | They do a myriad of other builds that are flavors on top of what the main build concept is |
| 16:31:27 | FromDiscord | <dom96> saem: you can achieve everything you can with Nim |
| 16:31:39 | FromDiscord | <dom96> Nimble passes all flags straight to Nim |
| 16:32:02 | saem | How do I figure out what it's assuming? |
| 16:32:04 | Araq | 'nimble build' is the *standard* build command |
| 16:32:30 | FromDiscord | <dom96> federico3: okay, but that's not something that most people do. |
| 16:32:33 | Araq | you don't need to figure it out at all, it's always that. But I understand what you need |
| 16:32:56 | Araq | you want a list of tasks for IDE support, got it. It's a reasonable thing to ask for |
| 16:33:17 | Araq | but my point is at least right now you already have *1* such build command |
| 16:33:27 | FromDiscord | <dom96> Doesn't `dump` provide those? |
| 16:33:33 | saem | I don't disagree with that |
| 16:33:37 | federico3 | @dom96 it's common enough that various PM have a standard hook for unit tests |
| 16:33:56 | saem | dom96: no and the tasks output relies on spacing and that is fragile |
| 16:34:10 | Araq | 'nimble test' is the other standard command iirc |
| 16:34:13 | FromDiscord | <dom96> federico3: yes, and I'm not saying it shouldn't be provided |
| 16:34:17 | Araq | and 'nimble docs' |
| 16:34:24 | FromDiscord | <dom96> saem: Don't worry, I won't ask you to parse `nimble tasks` |
| 16:34:28 | saem | build, test, tasks, docs |
| 16:34:45 | saem | dom96: I already did, I hate myself for it |
| 16:34:53 | FromDiscord | <dom96> But adding a list of tasks to the json output should be trivial |
| 16:34:59 | saem | I know |
| 16:35:13 | * | disruptek sighs. |
| 16:35:21 | saem | I looked at the code and that didn't help my frustration |
| 16:35:47 | federico3 | Araq: there's "nimble test" but without a clear standard on what it can and cannot do |
| 16:36:01 | federico3 | same for "nimble docs" |
| 16:36:41 | saem | It's easy to nibble on these things but it's not a particularly composeable model. |
| 16:36:42 | haxscramper | There is no nimble docs by default, isn't it? |
| 16:36:48 | FromDiscord | <dom96> saem: You can't expect everything to be available and get frustrated when it's not. We're not Go. |
| 16:37:23 | haxscramper | It is possible to write `task docs`, but by default project-wide documentation generation is not supported with nimble |
| 16:37:44 | haxscramper | or I'm missing something? |
| 16:38:07 | saem | dom96: my dude, I ported the extension, I'm starting in nimsuggest bugs, that's my greeting card to the community, are you seriously saying I'm not also directly working on this? |
| 16:38:38 | saem | I know you're not Go. But also screw Go |
| 16:39:06 | saem | The thing is, it's not me and you. I'm willing and am working on it. |
| 16:39:28 | Araq | saem, I know who you are and I love your work |
| 16:40:29 | saem | Araq: I know, I'm super grateful for the attention, I can see my prs get quick attention and I don't know if they deserve it. So thanks for the support. |
| 16:41:08 | Araq | federico3, sure but then after we wrote these standard design documents we need to enforce them somehow I guess and it feel like another rabbit hole, frankly |
| 16:41:18 | saem | Again, if I poop on something is because I'm also running it around in my head to fix it. |
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| 16:42:04 | Araq | saem, also, it's easy to use words like "particularly composeable model" because they don't mean much |
| 16:42:36 | Araq | they sound good but in the end it might just be "Nimble json dump needs to include tasks" |
| 16:42:41 | federico3 | Araq: what do you mean with "enforce" exactly? |
| 16:42:55 | Araq | or "Nimble's codebase is a mess, can we refactor it" |
| 16:43:45 | Araq | federico3, unit tests vs integration tests |
| 16:44:11 | saem | Araq that's fair, it's not much without context. In my ideal world all this can be a single typed memory model, that things like nimble can convey enough meaning that in many cases tools on top can add to it. The json is an ok starting interchange. |
| 16:46:15 | saem | So things like, I support the following backends, allow/deny/default list. Or I use x to test and if that is known and understood then great. We might be able to do run tests, run with coverage, debug, etc... |
| 16:46:28 | federico3 | Araq: if you mean "ensure developers implement those": all these would be optional. If something is not implemented Nimble can return some "NotImplemented" return code that is semantically different from "I tried running it and crashed badly" |
| 16:47:42 | FromDiscord | <dom96> saem: I understand the frustration, and I think there is a right and a wrong way to air it. Do consider that next time, especially in the context of open source work that is solely done by volunteers. |
| 16:48:01 | disruptek | i could teach you a thing or two about airing frustration. |
| 16:48:19 | disruptek | maybe we can talk about a standard for tests. |
| 16:48:21 | saem | Uuuh |
| 16:48:58 | saem | Imma ignore the tone police |
| 16:48:59 | federico3 | ...and if there are documented, standardized entry points and the implementation does something incorrect it becomes clear that it can be treated as a bug |
| 16:49:02 | disruptek | testes implements the following standard: build/run t*.nim in tests/; failing any detected, build/run project-named .nim file or, failing the uniqueness of this, all the .nim files. |
| 16:50:08 | Araq | sorry, bbl |
| 16:50:19 | FromDiscord | <dom96> saem: tone police? |
| 16:50:20 | saem | Araq laters |
| 16:50:21 | disruptek | i'd like it to run foo.nims to test project foo despite foo.nim, but this seems to conflict with the compiler's config resolution methodology. |
| 16:50:30 | saem | dom96: your previous message |
| 16:51:38 | FromDiscord | <dom96> saem: I'm not forbidding you from doing anything, I am just asking you to reconsider how you air your frustrations. |
| 16:52:29 | hmmm | *munching pocorns while eyeing disruptek* |
| 16:54:21 | disruptek | !repo ups |
| 16:54:22 | disbot | https://github.com/dmknght/UPS -- 9UPS: 11Super stupid secret 15 1⭐ 1🍴 7& 1 more... |
| 16:54:30 | disruptek | !repo disruptek/ups |
| 16:54:31 | disbot | https://github.com/disruptek/ups -- 9ups: 11a package handler 15 1⭐ 0🍴 |
| 16:54:44 | disruptek | i'm putting packaging types and utility in there. |
| 16:55:49 | disruptek | it will eventually have the dependency graph (which means lockfiles) and all that sort of middleweight complexity. |
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| 17:11:25 | saem | dom96: by that token I'm asking you to reconsider your approach. You spoke of a fabric of volunteers, as if I'm not one and it sure seems like you're continuing to do so. |
| 17:12:13 | FromDiscord | <dom96> saem: In that case let me say that this was certainly not my intention. Anybody who contributes to Nim is a volunteer to its cause, yourself included. |
| 17:17:57 | disruptek | dom96: what was the last work you did on nimble? |
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| 17:24:34 | FromDiscord | <zetashift> So I don't know much about the advanced stuff of package managers, but what exactly is the difference between nimph and ups? |
| 17:25:45 | disruptek | ups is the library that shashlick and i talked about making; a place to unify and standardize the models for how we talk about nim software. |
| 17:26:28 | disruptek | i'm moving nimph's guts into ups so that i can use that work in other tools without requiring nimterop and libgit2. |
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| 17:34:02 | FromDiscord | <zetashift> Sounds very modular |
| 17:35:24 | disruptek | it's not rocket science. nimph already exposes all this stuff; it's just that, y'know, i can't depend on being able to include it as a nimble dependency. |
| 17:47:00 | ForumUpdaterBot | New post on r/nim by Turbulent_Passion_77: A simple search engine made with nim, see https://www.reddit.com/r/nim/comments/kxznfu/a_simple_search_engine_made_with_nim/ |
| 17:49:40 | hmmm | hmm dudes can I make a proc that returns either a string or false :o |
| 17:50:26 | FromDiscord | <Rika> make an object variant |
| 17:50:38 | hmmm | hi rika :3 |
| 17:50:42 | hmmm | that's pretty obscure to me |
| 17:50:50 | FromDiscord | <Rika> hello /hm+/ |
| 17:51:53 | FromDiscord | <dk> you propably don't want to |
| 17:51:57 | FromDiscord | <exelotl> hmmm: sounds like you want an Option[string] |
| 17:52:04 | FromDiscord | <dk> you can do proc(result: var string): bool |
| 17:52:33 | hmmm | I remember something about Option |
| 17:52:37 | hmmm | Imma check the manual |
| 17:53:32 | FromDiscord | <exelotl> I think you won't find it in the manual, but it's part of the standard library |
| 17:53:33 | FromDiscord | <exelotl> https://nim-lang.org/docs/options.html |
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| 18:06:27 | disruptek | !repo badresults |
| 18:06:29 | disbot | https://github.com/disruptek/badresults -- 9badresults: 11a less fascist fork of nim-result 15 1⭐ 0🍴 |
| 18:10:22 | disruptek | who can recommend a really good piece of web-cam hardware that is hacker-friendly? |
| 18:16:15 | saem | I too would like to know this |
| 18:18:30 | FromDiscord | <Avatarfighter> disruptek: are you making a webcam |
| 18:18:53 | FromDiscord | <Avatarfighter> cuz you can buy the tiny webcam board from laptops and connect it to a usb cable |
| 18:22:21 | disruptek | no, i need a webcam and i'm willing to pay for something that is high-quality and which i can really exploit under linux. i would prefer something network-based but i won't be surprised if it makes more sense given today's codecs to let the computer do the work and simply connect via usb3 or whatever. |
| 18:26:49 | FromDiscord | <Avatarfighter> Hm im not sure about hackable premade webcams unless you want to RE drivers if there are any |
| 18:27:24 | disruptek | not that kind of hackable. just, y'know, something open enough that i don't need anything proprietary to use it on linux. |
| 18:27:30 | FromDiscord | <Avatarfighter> ohhh |
| 18:27:37 | FromDiscord | <Avatarfighter> i understand 😛 |
| 18:28:00 | FromDiscord | <Avatarfighter> i think any usb camera should work tbh |
| 18:28:25 | disruptek | yes, they should. but opinions are like assholes. |
| 18:28:27 | FromDiscord | <Avatarfighter> if you want you could buy something like a VoCore2 SBC with a camera module lol |
| 18:28:39 | FromDiscord | <Avatarfighter> its a tiny sbc |
| 18:28:46 | disruptek | sbc? small-block chevy? |
| 18:29:06 | FromDiscord | <Avatarfighter> https://ameridroid.com/products/vocore2-ultimate-linux-sbc-with-wifi-and-dock |
| 18:29:11 | FromDiscord | <Avatarfighter> Single board computer |
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| 18:30:02 | disruptek | hmm, not crazy i guess. |
| 18:30:12 | * | vicfred joined #nim |
| 18:30:29 | disruptek | yes, crazy. i don't have time for this. |
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| 18:36:09 | FromDiscord | <Avatarfighter> Haha |
| 18:37:52 | Oddmonger | seriously… i declare a type object in a module, i put the * after its name. And then for accessing its fields, i have to put * them one by one ? |
| 18:38:22 | FromDiscord | <haxscramper> yes |
| 18:38:26 | FromDiscord | <Avatarfighter> yeah |
| 18:38:51 | Oddmonger | i wish i was wrong on this * |
| 18:39:03 | FromDiscord | <Avatarfighter> its one of those features that is imo annoying but when you gotta keep one field private its useful af |
| 18:39:17 | Oddmonger | ok it's by design |
| 18:39:30 | FromDiscord | <haxscramper> yes, there is no `public:` section os something like that |
| 18:39:51 | Oddmonger | i'm sure i can write obscure macro to get rid of it, but the remedy would be worst than the symptom :) |
| 18:40:06 | FromDiscord | <haxscramper> well, it is not that bad |
| 18:40:19 | FromDiscord | <Avatarfighter> It only gets bad if your type is massive |
| 18:40:33 | FromDiscord | <haxscramper> And IMO type declaration sytax is off-limit for macro use tbh |
| 18:40:51 | FromDiscord | <Avatarfighter> for most people they define a type once and dont touch it ever again so manually typing the asterisks isnt too bad |
| 18:40:54 | FromDiscord | <dom96> Bet you a macro for this exists already |
| 18:41:04 | FromDiscord | <Avatarfighter> i say most people in relation to myself |
| 18:41:15 | FromDiscord | <haxscramper> like all other declarations tbh, except for variable declaration |
| 18:41:17 | FromDiscord | <Avatarfighter> type macros are hot @haxscramper |
| 18:41:24 | FromDiscord | <haxscramper> well |
| 18:41:27 | FromDiscord | <Avatarfighter> !repo NESM |
| 18:41:28 | FromDiscord | <haxscramper> Too hot for me |
| 18:41:29 | disbot | https://github.com/xomachine/NESM -- 9NESM: 11NESM stands for Nim's Easy Serialization Macro. The macro that allowing generation of serialization functions by one line of code! (It is a mirror of https://gitlab.com/xomachine/NESM) 15 41⭐ 2🍴 |
| 18:41:34 | FromDiscord | <Avatarfighter> peep that macro |
| 18:41:37 | FromDiscord | <Avatarfighter> its really cool lol |
| 18:41:37 | FromDiscord | <haxscramper> !repo nimtraits |
| 18:41:39 | disbot | https://github.com/haxscramper/nimtraits -- 9nimtraits: 11Automatic trait implementation for nim types 15 4⭐ 0🍴 |
| 18:41:43 | FromDiscord | <haxscramper> I can play this game too |
| 18:41:47 | FromDiscord | <Avatarfighter> Hahaha |
| 18:42:23 | FromDiscord | <haxscramper> But after writing this I realized it is just changing language syntax too much |
| 18:42:44 | FromDiscord | <haxscramper> Even for comparatively mild differences like trait annotations |
| 18:43:07 | FromDiscord | <Avatarfighter> I fully agree |
| 18:43:26 | Oddmonger | is it possible to reset an object (all fields zeroed or emptied at once) |
| 18:43:39 | Oddmonger | without using a temp object of same type for copying |
| 18:44:12 | FromDiscord | <haxscramper> https://nim-lang.org/docs/system.html#zeroMem%2Cpointer%2CNatural |
| 18:44:51 | FromDiscord | <haxscramper> By default all memory is zero-initialized, so this is identical to constructing new object |
| 18:44:57 | Oddmonger | hum do you thing it would work with an object composed of booleans fields ? |
| 18:45:04 | FromDiscord | <haxscramper> at the moment, in future it might change |
| 18:45:28 | Oddmonger | hum ok |
| 18:45:31 | FromDiscord | <haxscramper> Oddmonger: I think it would work for anything |
| 18:45:51 | FromDiscord | <haxscramper> Though I'd just copy from default value |
| 18:47:55 | FromDiscord | <dk> valueless `return` not allowed in iterators 😳 |
| 18:48:15 | Oddmonger | but the guardian of Nim is going to whip my *** because it's unsafe |
| 18:49:57 | Oddmonger | dk : i cannot imagine an iterator which returns nothing. It would be curious |
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| 18:51:19 | FromDiscord | <haxscramper> to break out of iterator use `break` |
| 18:51:32 | FromDiscord | <haxscramper> or just dont `yeild` anymore |
| 18:54:08 | FromDiscord | <dk> I know, it just surprised me |
| 18:55:09 | FromDiscord | <dk> If the entire body depends on a condition, it looks better with result instead of indenting the whole thing |
| 18:55:15 | FromDiscord | <dk> with return |
| 18:56:06 | FromDiscord | <dk> And it seems I can't do that with `break` |
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| 19:10:08 | FromGitter | <sdmcallister> Does anyone know of a way to add in-line svg in Karax? |
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| 20:03:34 | FromDiscord | <Quibono> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=2M8z |
| 20:04:00 | FromDiscord | <haxscramper> How you declare it? |
| 20:05:08 | FromDiscord | <Quibono> D'oh it's an openarray that exists outside the function scope, how do I modify values that are outside the function? |
| 20:05:57 | FromDiscord | <haxscramper> This is an view-type openarray, or you have `arg: openarray[int]`? |
| 20:06:00 | FromDiscord | <haxscramper> Show the code |
| 20:06:21 | FromDiscord | <Quibono> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=2M8A |
| 20:06:41 | FromDiscord | <haxscramper> You need to use `var seq` or view types (EXPERIMENTAL) or `var array` as first argument |
| 20:07:10 | FromDiscord | <haxscramper> Otherwise, you are passing immutable `array | seq` |
| 20:07:33 | FromDiscord | <Quibono> So like (arr: var seq...)? |
| 20:07:36 | FromDiscord | <haxscramper> Yes |
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| 20:11:13 | FromDiscord | <dk> In `after build` in a .nimble file, can I see which file has just been built? |
| 20:11:18 | FromDiscord | <Quibono> Thank you, now I just need to handle the index errors lol |
| 20:14:16 | FromDiscord | <haxscramper> You can inspect list of bin files |
| 20:14:33 | FromDiscord | <haxscramper> IIRC `after build` runs after all binary compilations |
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| 20:59:57 | FromDiscord | <lqdev> damn, my render needs too much memory to succeed >_< |
| 21:00:17 | FromDiscord | <lqdev> what i have right now is that every thread gets a new freshly allocated video frame |
| 21:00:30 | FromDiscord | <lqdev> but this quickly consumes all of my memory |
| 21:01:43 | FromDiscord | <lqdev> because frames are 1920 1080 4 bytes in size |
| 21:01:47 | FromDiscord | <lqdev> and there's 2160 of them |
| 21:01:52 | FromDiscord | <lqdev> which is roughly 17GB |
| 21:02:06 | FromDiscord | <lqdev> i'm wondering how i could implement a pool of frames somehow |
| 21:02:50 | FromDiscord | <lqdev> so that at most maybe 200 frames are being rendered at a time, and subsequent frames reuse memory |
| 21:03:34 | adnan338 | Hi, not related to nim but what's the difference between a global singleton and a global variable? |
| 21:04:42 | FromDiscord | <iWonderAboutTuatara> is gc:orc suitable for gamedev? |
| 21:04:51 | FromDiscord | <iWonderAboutTuatara> suitable is the wrong word |
| 21:05:00 | FromDiscord | <iWonderAboutTuatara> should I use ORC, ARC, or the standard GC? |
| 21:05:28 | FromDiscord | <lqdev> doesn't matter ime |
| 21:05:41 | FromDiscord | <lqdev> also depends on what sort of game dec |
| 21:05:42 | FromDiscord | <lqdev> (edit) "dec" => "dev" |
| 21:05:52 | FromDiscord | <iWonderAboutTuatara> simple 2d game |
| 21:05:58 | FromDiscord | <iWonderAboutTuatara> nothing special |
| 21:06:00 | FromDiscord | <lqdev> ah then default GC is more than enough |
| 21:06:03 | FromDiscord | <iWonderAboutTuatara> ok solid |
| 21:06:12 | FromDiscord | <iWonderAboutTuatara> without touching collection time etc? |
| 21:06:29 | FromDiscord | <lqdev> yeah |
| 21:06:55 | FromDiscord | <iWonderAboutTuatara> ok solid |
| 21:06:58 | FromDiscord | <iWonderAboutTuatara> thanks |
| 21:07:12 | FromDiscord | <lqdev> this game of mine uses the default GC and manages to run at a silky smooth 60 fps, even on low end hardware https://lqdev.itch.io/memrecall |
| 21:07:21 | FromDiscord | <lqdev> so don't worry about it too much |
| 21:08:22 | FromDiscord | <iWonderAboutTuatara> ah excellent |
| 21:08:23 | FromDiscord | <iWonderAboutTuatara> thank you! |
| 21:09:31 | FromDiscord | <lqdev> np |
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| 21:59:22 | Araq | if you interface with C(++) you should use --gc:orc just for the superior valgrind support |
| 22:00:14 | Araq | once valgrind is happy you can switch to the GC that performs best for your code |
| 22:01:55 | FromDiscord | <treeform> (which is probably still --gc:orc) |
| 22:02:20 | disruptek | who has a new name for my test framework? |
| 22:02:40 | disruptek | testimony? |
| 22:02:44 | disruptek | test2money? |
| 22:03:23 | disruptek | smoke? |
| 22:03:32 | Araq | I like 'smoke' |
| 22:03:53 | disruptek | more than balls? |
| 22:03:59 | Araq | yeah... |
| 22:04:07 | FromDiscord | <Avatarfighter> RIP testes |
| 22:04:50 | disruptek | oops? |
| 22:06:22 | disruptek | ohfuck? |
| 22:06:28 | Araq | anything that is not obscene will do |
| 22:06:32 | disruptek | damnit. |
| 22:06:34 | Araq | that rules out "ohfuck" |
| 22:09:55 | Araq | good night |
| 22:11:43 | Prestige | disruptek: disruptest? |
| 22:13:18 | FromDiscord | <Avatarfighter> disruptest ™️ |
| 22:13:21 | FromDiscord | <Avatarfighter> I like it |
| 22:13:32 | FromDiscord | <Avatarfighter> disruptek: capitalize on this opportunity asap |
| 22:14:44 | Prestige | even 'disrupt' is not bad |
| 22:15:15 | disruptek | i think we have to go with balls; i just don't want to replace my testes unless i can replace them with balls. |
| 22:15:38 | Prestige | how about goose eggs |
| 22:16:11 | FromDiscord | <ElegantBeef> testerino |
| 22:16:14 | Prestige | lmao |
| 22:16:30 | FromDiscord | <Avatarfighter> lmao |
| 22:16:34 | FromDiscord | <ElegantBeef> just add "erino" to anything and you get a named package |
| 22:16:46 | FromDiscord | <Avatarfighter> testiclerino |
| 22:17:20 | FromDiscord | <ElegantBeef> testicles but it's pronounce as if it was a greek name so test-i-cles |
| 22:17:29 | FromDiscord | <Avatarfighter> yeah |
| 22:17:46 | Prestige | 'jewels'? |
| 22:17:54 | Prestige | gonads |
| 22:18:54 | FromDiscord | <Avatarfighter> cojones |
| 22:19:01 | Prestige | disruptek: I think 'ballocks' is not obscene |
| 22:19:07 | FromDiscord | <Avatarfighter> bollocks |
| 22:19:09 | FromDiscord | <Avatarfighter> |
| 22:19:21 | FromDiscord | <Avatarfighter> unless you were making a pun |
| 22:19:45 | Prestige | nah there's ballocks and bollocks |
| 22:19:55 | disruptek | i already have a cojones package. |
| 22:20:00 | FromDiscord | <Avatarfighter> hm |
| 22:20:03 | FromDiscord | <Avatarfighter> ballocks/bollocks |
| 22:20:14 | FromDiscord | <Avatarfighter> honestly just name it TESTicool |
| 22:20:17 | FromDiscord | <Avatarfighter> (edit) "TESTicool" => "`TESTicool`" |
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| 22:20:55 | FromDiscord | <Avatarfighter> capitalize the word test so you can argue your intent was to have it be a testing framework and it just so happens the name sounds vulgar |
| 22:21:22 | FromDiscord | <Avatarfighter> TESTiscool ? |
| 22:21:31 | FromDiscord | <Avatarfighter> sounds like testicles if you say it fast |
| 22:21:42 | disruptek | argue to whom? |
| 22:21:49 | FromDiscord | <Avatarfighter> yes |
| 22:33:14 | Prestige | I think 'arbiter' would be a good testing framework name |
| 22:38:05 | FromDiscord | <Zachary Carter> @shashlick - with nimterop, is there a way to specify what generator CMake uses in `getHeader`? I tried with `-G` but it seems `-G "MinGW Makefiles"` is passed to cmake no matter what? |
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| 22:39:24 | FromDiscord | <Zachary Carter> I want to be able to do something like - `cmake -G "Visual Studio 16 2019" -A x64 -S \path_to_source\ -B "build64"` and then execute `cmake --build build64 --config Release` afterwards |
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| 22:42:04 | disruptek | i'm making an effort to be less obscene. |
| 22:42:13 | FromDiscord | <Zachary Carter> Meh screw this - I don't even know why I'm building the library in the first place. I'll just grab a pre built library. |
| 22:42:30 | disruptek | i'm with you. |
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| 22:43:17 | FromDiscord | <Zachary Carter> do you ever stream anymore? |
| 22:43:40 | disruptek | only in the morning. |
| 22:43:57 | disruptek | damnit, i didn't even make it 2mins. |
| 22:44:05 | disruptek | this is going to be harder than i thought. |
| 22:44:20 | disruptek | ahh, there i go again. |
| 22:44:27 | FromDiscord | <Zachary Carter> I mean it was pretty much over before it began |
| 22:46:59 | FromDiscord | <Avatarfighter> Disruptek needs to stream more |
| 22:47:03 | FromDiscord | <Avatarfighter> content is content |
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| 22:50:52 | FromDiscord | <ElegantBeef> Well there we go got everything setup for that community showcase idea |
| 22:51:09 | FromDiscord | <ElegantBeef> Got a blog post announcing it, and instructions to add to it 😄 |
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| 22:55:57 | disruptek | link? |
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| 22:59:21 | FromDiscord | <ElegantBeef> Well waiting for the PR to be accepted |
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| 23:00:12 | FromDiscord | <ElegantBeef> But you can always read the post on github i guess https://github.com/nim-lang/website/blob/eaf13db79aa7695548d1870aecb95174feb78fc3/jekyll/_posts/2021-01-15-this-month-with-nim.md |
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| 23:03:30 | disruptek | avatarfighter: you were around when i used to stream, right? |
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| 23:09:50 | FromDiscord | <Avatarfighter> yeah |
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| 23:26:52 | leorize | disruptek: re: cps, if the user wanna run an operation synchronously, my dispatcher would have to provide it? |
| 23:27:07 | leorize | I'm hoping to not have to expose things like `readFileSync()` that node have |
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| 23:40:53 | FromDiscord | <Avatarfighter> leorize: whatchu doing with cpus |
| 23:40:55 | FromDiscord | <Avatarfighter> (edit) "cpus" => "cps" |
| 23:43:06 | leorize | looking for a replacement to asyncdispatch |
| 23:43:24 | leorize | I'm redoing stdlib io |
| 23:43:33 | FromDiscord | <Avatarfighter> aren't we all leorize, aren't we all... |
| 23:43:53 | FromDiscord | <Avatarfighter> Got a repo I can look at while you work ? |
| 23:46:40 | leorize | !repo alaviss/nim-sys |
| 23:46:41 | disbot | https://github.com/alaviss/nim-sys -- 9nim-sys: 11Abstractions for common operating system interfaces 15 7⭐ 0🍴 |
| 23:46:54 | FromDiscord | <Avatarfighter> thanks 😄 |
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