<< 15-05-2014 >>
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04:12:43VarriountIs there a built-in in-place or'ing operator?
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04:30:35fowlyou mean one that modifies one of its arguments instead of returning a new value?
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04:34:22Varriountfowl: Yeah
04:35:02fowlno
04:45:17Varriountdom96: Ping
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05:26:53fowlis there a benchmarking module available yet
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06:32:28Varriountfowl: I think someone around here was making a timit module.
06:32:43Varriountfowl: It might just be better to use a system profiler though.
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09:20:25milosnhmmm
09:20:26milosnvar ctx = newContext(ProtSSLv23, CVerifyNone, "mycert.pem", "mycert.pem")
09:20:43milosnneppd.nim(7, 10) Error: undeclared identifier: 'newContext'
09:20:46milosn...
09:21:12milosnIve imported 'net' ... what else needs to be imported for SSL procs to be available?
09:21:22milosnnewSocket() works
09:48:49dom96milosn: Compile with -d:ssl
09:49:38milosnah
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13:45:05milosndom96: how do you detect client diconnected on a socket?
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13:50:31milosni am so used to async frameworks ... id just write a callback onConnectionLost() :P
13:50:34milosn:)
13:50:41milosnhmmm
14:21:52milosnhmm maybe i should use recv(), it returns 0 when socket has been disconnected
14:22:25milosnill have to use it anyway, since readLine() dont serve my purpose when i start implementing the protocol
14:24:08EXetoCare you using await?
14:24:39milosnawait?
14:25:31EXetoCI guess not. async await. it's the new IO interface
14:25:59milosnah no, i dont have understanding of mixing async/threads/db_access in nimrod
14:26:26milosni went for "sync net"/fork() solution :P
14:26:27milosn:)
14:27:29EXetoCok well await let's you block, while omitting it let's you query the state of a future object manually
14:27:52EXetoCI guess you'd generally use the former though
14:29:20milosnif i was doing this in python, i would use twisted :)
14:30:00milosni know in a out how to make async/threads/db tick in python ... but nimrod has different kind of threading and new async framework
14:30:30milosni dont wanna experiment, plus the rest of people which may end up coding this ... have 0 experience with anything other than apache stack
14:31:11milosnso they are used to not dealing with threads/async and having single apache process to monpolise during whole request handling
14:32:08milosnthere is certain kind a simplystick beauty in fork() :P
14:32:09milosn:)
14:32:50milosnplus i trust linux kernel to prioritize my processes evenly :)
14:35:35EXetoCright
14:43:50EXetoCdom96: we can't just let him not use async, can we?
14:45:07EXetoCI'll be back in a couple of hours. Talk some sense into him
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15:01:10Araqmilosn: don't feel bad for using what works
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15:27:12dom96Varriount: pong
15:27:26dom96EXetoC: I admire your loyalty to the async cause.
15:28:02dom96However SSL support for async is still non-existent but it looks like milosn needs it.
15:29:33Araqhi john3213 welcome
15:30:51Skrylarso how do you guys overcome the "i must write code but i can't begin to care" problem :F
15:31:27AraqI use short variable names because typing speed is usually my bottleneck
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15:33:26EXetoCthat should do it
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15:35:11EXetoCI don't know. I usually end up wasting time playing games. It's important to start with something small and see quick results
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15:50:31EXetoCdom96: shh. he doesn't need to know
15:50:43OrionPKaraq hows the vm issue coming?
15:52:01Araqnot working on it, OrionPK
15:52:40AraqI thought flaviu would fix it but apparently he is obsessed with removing 'magic' from the language
15:53:51OrionPKah
15:54:18OrionPKwell I can never upgrade nimrod on my box I guess :S
15:58:09Araqoh don't worry
15:58:35AraqI now know the cause of these bugs, so fixing it shouldn't be that hard ... (famous last words)
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16:06:18dom96Skrylar: I usually have an end product in mind when writing Nimrod libraries which really boosts my motivation.
16:06:49dom96Then I end up spending 4 years writing random libraries and realising they are more fun to work on than the product I had in mind at the time :P
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16:24:59EXetoChoverbear: https://github.com/nimrod-code/mongo/blob/master/tests/tmongo.nim
16:25:19hoverbearEXetoC: Awesome! I'll take a look tonight. :)
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17:27:34hoverbea_EXetoC: Bro so Insensitive https://github.com/nimrod-code/mongo/blob/master/tests/tmongo.nim#L24
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17:29:27OrionPKAraq thats cool, i'm not too worried, just like progress updates since i"m not around as much anymore
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17:34:21EXetoChoverbea_: I suspected that someone was going to say something about that :p
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17:50:32EXetoCdoesn't correspond with the type name though
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17:58:27simarglhi nimrod people
17:58:33simarglcheck this out
17:58:59simarglhttp://s27.postimg.org/esccgtotv/alphaos_20140515195456.png
18:00:02EXetoCnew editor?
18:00:44simarglthat is port of vala gtk3 sample to nimrod
18:01:03EXetoCgreat
18:01:04simarglfrom here https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Vala/GTKSample
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18:24:01dom96simargl: nice. I wish gtk3 looked that well on my PC
18:25:23dom96simargl: Now write a high-level gtk module ala pygtk ;)
18:28:31NimBotnimrod-code/packages master 2a12975 Eric S. Bullington [+0 ±1 -0]: Added simple hex string encoding/decoding package
18:28:31NimBotnimrod-code/packages master de28adf Eric S. Bullington [+0 ±1 -0]: Modified entry name to match file import name per babel guidelines
18:28:31NimBotnimrod-code/packages master b7c9e7a Dominik Picheta [+0 ±1 -0]: Merge pull request #55 from esbullington/hexed_package... 2 more lines
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18:43:52Varriountdom96: If you look at the logs on #nimrod-offtopic, you'll see my comments on the Windows file monitoring api
18:45:08VarriountEssentially, if you look at http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/aa364391(v=vs.85).aspx, you'll see that only 5 actual events are given, despite the fact that there are 8 filter flags available.
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18:58:29Araqsimargl: nice work and welcome to #nimrod
18:59:24Araqbbl
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19:26:48Demosyou all seen http://smallcultfollowing.com/babysteps/blog/2014/05/13/focusing-on-ownership/? I seem to recall Araq making exactly that point a while ago :D
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19:31:51Matthias247I have seen it - and asked myself again when rust will stop changing ;)
19:32:46Demoswell they are a pre-release language, so I guess it is OK. do they have a tool like gofix?
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19:35:33Matthias247no
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20:35:20AraqDemos: what point? that shared mutable state doesn't work and so you can either do without mutability
20:35:27Araq*or* shared?
20:36:29Demosyeah, that you can eliminate shareing or mutability and be pretty much OK.
20:36:58Araqyup. also they plan to get rid of explicit "mut" for locals
20:37:07Araqwhich comes close to nimrod's let vs var
20:37:27Demosyeah, although we do not have mutability as a little qualifier there
20:37:27Araqalso their concurrency vs parallelism distinction is exactly my design ...
20:37:52Araqthough with my recent "parallel" statement we're ahead again :P
20:37:58Demoshehe :D
20:38:25Demoscan it actually run (more or less) any code on the GPU?
20:38:38Araqno way lol
20:38:48Araqit maps quite nicely to GPUs though
20:50:56renesacI think the point was that, for safe concurrency, you only need non-aliasing (unique pointer), not immutability
20:52:11Demosyeah, I guess. Although frankly you need /some/ way to share data or a whole lot of things will be really hard. Esp in a language designed for high perf systems
20:52:30renesacright
20:53:35EXetoCand then only bug fixes for the duration of the release :p
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20:53:52EXetoCcmon. it's much more fun than working on features. maybe you just haven't realized that yet
20:54:44fowlyes
20:54:57fowlplease stop with the features
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20:57:48Araqwell the problem is that the planned features will break code
20:58:15Araqand so I'd rather get them all into the language and then we can fix bugs
20:58:48Araqthe alternative is that version 1.2 breaks code, version 1.4 breaks code slightly etc. ...
21:02:29EXetoCthat's fine
21:03:08DemosI think it would be a good idea for major versions to introduce some moderate code breakage, so long as we keep some level of maintnence on the older versions
21:03:31Demosbut this is hardly what we need to worry about now
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21:05:27Matthias247they broke already all code by changing string behavior, removing managed pointers, changing the whole allocation syntax, etc. ;)
21:08:23Araqoh well ... I guess you're right. Where is the fun in 1.2 when we can't break any code
21:09:17Matthias247that's why my work project only advanced from 0.7 to 0.7.9 in the last 18 month ;)
21:09:41dom96No. After 1.0 we need to guarantee no code breakage.
21:09:46dom96Otherwise people will dismiss us.
21:11:03Araqwell "code breakage" is relative
21:11:10EXetoCyou'd break things for new major versions if anything, but I suppose it needs to be a slow process
21:11:33Araqthe current approach with "warning: deprecated" works rather well
21:12:29EXetoCyeah, coupled with automated migration, which you've brought up a couple of times
21:12:31renesacmake available via future in one version, deprecate the old in the next, and finally remove the old in some next version
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21:13:04Matthias247linux kernel afaik also breaks internal APIs every few versions and it still works somehow
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21:13:09renesacok, the first step is kinda unnecessary
21:13:15DemosI like the way microsoft deals with .NET versions. Not without flaws but seem to work
21:13:18dom96Varriount_: hrm, if I understand the problem correctly there is no way to determine if for example the FILE_ACTION_MODIFIED action actually means that the file's time stamp or attributes were modified right?
21:13:19renesacMatthias247, internal, not userspace
21:13:37Varriount_dom96: Yes
21:13:39Matthias247renesac: yes, but it's still work for other developers to catch up
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21:13:57renesacusually who proposes the breakage has to fix everything
21:14:00dom96Varriount: even though filters allow such granularity.
21:14:05Varriountdom96: Yes.
21:14:33AraqMatthias247: I'm not sure Linux is a good example for "stable" software
21:14:57Varriountdom96: There are ways to get an idea of what changed, but they are imprecise and error prone (like comparing current file information with a saved copy)
21:15:36VarriountDemos: How does Microsoft deal with .NET versions?
21:15:50dom96Varriount: I think you should simply allow the user to specify the filters.
21:16:02dom96Varriount: Don't worry about making the events detailed.
21:16:32dom96Varriount: If the user wants file modified events only for attribute changes he can specify the file_notify_change_attributes filter.
21:16:50DemosVarriount: a program compiled for .NET 2 can not use features that need .NET 4, and it needs a different set of redistributable libraries
21:17:06Demosnew features come in new versions but security and bugfixes are backported
21:17:15dom96Varriount: In the unlikely case that he wants both, but he wants to determine which happens then he can use two fs monitors I guess.
21:18:03Varriountdom96: Also, do you have a file monitor mechanism that will work with kqueue (for Mac and BSD) ?
21:19:14Araqoh yeah right
21:19:19Araqforgot about that
21:19:28dom96Varriount: Asyncdispatch doesn't even support kqueue yet :P
21:19:32Araqthe way to go, 1.2 vs 2.0
21:19:52fowllets use firefox version model
21:20:11VarriountWe aren't going to use semantic versioning?
21:21:17dom96Let's use random versioning
21:21:23dom96each release we'll generate 3 random numbers
21:21:57Araqor simply date in Iso format
21:22:29dom96nah, seconds since epoch is better
21:22:36dom96more unixy
21:22:40dom96people love that shit
21:23:08Demospick an irrational number and keep adding digits :D
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21:24:00fowlepoch in hexadecimal notation
21:24:06fowlthat would be pretty hip
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21:24:49Demoslets hash the entire codebase and take the first n digits
21:25:57Araqwell anyway. I've holidays. I'm allowed to work on kick-ass features
21:26:12Araqit's all in a branch nobody cares about anyway
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21:30:30VarriountHm. Well aside from version numbers, I have another topic we can bikeshed on: Release *names*!
21:30:52EXetoCfowl: binary
21:31:17AraqVarriount: write a NEP about it :P
21:31:31AraqI still need to read NEP-1
21:31:42Araqoh and you need to post it on the forum
21:31:51fowlsomeone fix mruby plz
21:32:19VarriountAraq: NEP-1 is in ongoing development. There's still a large number of areas I have yet to cover.
21:32:20dom96I know!
21:32:25dom96Character names from The Matrix.
21:32:29dom96Release 1.0 will be Neo.
21:32:41Varriountdom96: And what happens when we run out of names?
21:32:45Araqdom96: meh... matrix is so 90ies
21:32:59dom96hrm, character names from Game of Thrones? :P
21:33:16dom96Varriount: dunno, switch to a different movie/tv show
21:33:19VarriountMaybe we can name the release after the kind of spirits Araq was drinking while he wrote compiler code?
21:33:29Araqcharacter names from System Shock 2? :P
21:33:41Varriount(I say spirits because I assume Araq drinks more than just beer)
21:33:50dom96lol, so System Shock 2 isn't so 90ies but The Matrix is?
21:33:58Araqyes.
21:34:05AraqSS2 is an all-time classic
21:34:22Trixar_zaDidn't they come out around the same time too? (Both released in 1999)
21:34:28Araqthe story is better too
21:34:35EXetoCfowl: what do you want to use it for and stuff
21:34:46VarriountAraq: What kind of beer/wine/liquor did you last drink?
21:35:01renesacversion 0.9.4 was unilaterally named "heart-beat release" by me
21:35:03renesac:P
21:35:08Araqwait a sec
21:36:49Araq"Flensburger Frühlingsbock" :D
21:37:30VarriountThere. We have our release name.
21:37:52Trixar_zaOo
21:37:55dom96please no
21:38:25fowlEXetoC, scripting
21:38:49EXetoCI had no idea
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21:39:07fowlEXetoC, why did you ask if your gonna be all sarcastic
21:39:36AraqVarriount: I think this breaks all kind of trademarks
21:40:19Trixar_zaFor release names I've adopted the naming convention for Ubuntu, but with intentional double entendre. Parody is fun
21:40:29Trixar_zaentendres*
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21:41:30Demoswe could do famous scientists
21:42:59VarriountAraq: I don't think so. Trademark only applies if it's in the same field/area of usage
21:43:41VarriountIf we were releasing a drinks recipe with that name, it might be chancy. But as an informal release name, not really.
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21:45:13AraqVarriount: I suppose you're right but still ... we can find something better
21:45:38VarriountHm. What about religious figure's names?
21:46:11VarriountAlthough, some might consider that blasphemous...
21:46:21fowlv 1.0 muhammad
21:46:25dom96Yeah, let's include a picture of mohammed
21:46:37dom96That should give us some nice publicity.
21:46:38EXetoChow about, beefy miracle?
21:46:51EXetoCno, already taken. damn
21:47:57dom96how about porn star names?
21:48:09EXetoCdom96: not nice publicity, but any publicity is good publicity
21:48:17EXetoCas long as we don't manage to get blown up in the process
21:48:18dom96EXetoC: yep
21:48:28Trixar_zaYou really want to call it something like Julia Bond?
21:48:56fowlmy porn star name is Cinnamon Imperial
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21:49:09fowl(first dogs name + the name of the first street you lived on)
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21:49:34Trixar_zaEr, that would be weird
21:49:49Trixar_zaFlossy Buitenkant
21:49:56EXetoCnow I can infer everything about you
21:50:15fowlhaha
21:50:22Araqmeh I have no "first dog" and I always lived under a bridge
21:50:40Araqbbl
21:50:44Trixar_zaSo... Nameless Bridge?
21:50:55EXetoCbridge
21:51:21fowlDogeless Bridgedweller
21:51:48Trixar_zalol
21:51:55Trixar_zaNext we'll be using Fallout references
21:52:06Trixar_za"The Vault Dweller"
21:52:32VarriountHow about.. "Cavensis" (The species name of the Honey Badger)
21:52:54VarriountOr "Mellivora Cavensis"
21:52:59flaviuTrixar_za: How about "Beatrix Russell"?
21:53:43VarriountOr we could all put name suggestions into a pot, and use random.org to pick on.
21:53:45Varriount*one
21:53:48Trixar_za... Fallout Universe Prostitutes?
21:53:59EXetoCcall it œ€łŁºØ°
21:54:26flaviuTrixar_za: I'm not actually serious
21:54:31Trixar_zahttp://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Prostitution
21:54:38Trixar_za^ *coff*
21:54:39flaviuOh, I know
21:54:40EXetoCor beefy miracle, in chinese
21:56:21flaviuThere's a lot of features that can be copied from http://whiley.org/
21:58:17Trixar_zaFirst time I've heard of Whiley
21:59:03Trixar_zaOh, that's why. My brain automatically ignores anything to do with Java
21:59:32renesacooc is also interesting: http://ooc-lang.org/
22:00:47renesacnothing java or theorem proving
22:01:22flaviuooc doesn't seem to do anything new or exciting
22:02:03Trixar_zaTrue - and I have heard of ooc atleast. I just ignore languages that output Java because much like Linux, there is just way too many of them.
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22:11:28dom96I'm pretty sure OOC is dead.
22:14:14Demoswhiley sounds annoying to program in
22:15:11njoejoetrying to use db_mysql. get error: could not load libmysqlclient.so.15. I have libmysqlclient.so.18 on my system (mariadb) how do I let nimrod know?
22:15:35dom96edit the mysql wrapper
22:15:40flaviuDemos: You can tell the compiler "I'm right about this, trust me" where it doesn't pick things up correctly.
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22:16:49Araqnjoejoe: you can also use --dynlibOverride and link statically against some mariadb library that then links dynamically against the right lib*.so
22:17:12NimBotnimrod-code/packages master 0fc85c3 boydgreenfield [+0 ±1 -0]: Rename murmur -> murmur3 to not conflict w/ prior module... 4 more lines
22:17:12NimBotnimrod-code/packages master e3cf714 Dominik Picheta [+0 ±1 -0]: Merge pull request #56 from boydgreenfield/master... 2 more lines
22:18:29Demosflaviu: well if you have to do that all the time you may as well just dump the verification
22:19:12njoejoethanks dom96 that did it.
22:19:24dom96njoejoe: good and np :)
22:20:56Araqflaviu: interesting. I'm checking out theorem provers right now.
22:23:33EXetoCDemos: or just update the file, but it's pointless if they modify the binary interface often
22:23:57DemosEXetoC: wait what?
22:27:01DemosI do like whiley's thing where it will convert things it can not prove to a runtime check, although control is paramount as usual. And side effects in those runtime checks are probably not a great idea
22:27:56Demosanyhow I gotta go. Perhaps this weekend I will start interrogating araq about our overload resolution
22:28:34EXetoCDemos: that's when they bump the so number
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22:29:53EXetoCor should
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22:42:49njoejoeSo I'm guessing we need an async_db_mysql because this https://gist.github.com/jots/d36c2a8a938bf9d550b3 blocks the server on line 16. I was hoping some magic would just make it work :-)
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