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| 00:43:53 | apotheon | Araq: Two-space indents . . . ? |
| 00:44:16 | * | apotheon goes to look at his tiny little pool of Nimrod code to see how he had been indenting. |
| 00:44:55 | apotheon | I must've just followed the example of the, err, examples. I was using two-space indents. |
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| 05:19:18 | reactormonk | you know, we should use tabs and spaces :-) |
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| 05:39:37 | fowl | integrated whitespace interpreter, makes your indentation useful |
| 05:45:56 | reactormonk | ^^ |
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| 17:02:59 | Amrykid | Araq, I finally went back and wrote the i18n module: https://gist.github.com/Amrykid/1134480 |
| 17:06:43 | reactormonk | Amrykid, what about fallback chains? |
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| 17:12:25 | reactormonk | recursive keys? |
| 17:19:21 | Amrykid | reactormonk, uh? what is a fallback chain? |
| 17:19:41 | Amrykid | (besides the obvious definition that could be assumed from the name) |
| 17:22:32 | reactormonk | Amrykid, en_US -> en, or even longer ones if more specific locales are not available |
| 17:24:30 | Amrykid | none. the way it's done is simply 'en' because Windows doesn't have an api to get 'en_US' prior to Vista. |
| 17:24:44 | reactormonk | huh |
| 17:25:15 | Amrykid | as far as I know, that is |
| 17:25:18 | Amrykid | i may be wrong |
| 17:25:33 | Amrykid | but i have been digging through the docs for the last 3-4 hours |
| 17:27:15 | Amrykid | and as far as recursive keys goes, use a format string? |
| 17:28:47 | reactormonk | huh? |
| 17:28:50 | reactormonk | oh. |
| 17:29:29 | reactormonk | <locale><string key="foo"><string key="bar"> |
| 17:30:13 | Araq | Amrykid: looks good so far |
| 17:30:38 | Araq | however you should split 'initLocale' into 2 procs |
| 17:30:47 | Araq | one for .cfg files, the other for .xml files |
| 17:31:03 | Araq | this way the XML parser is not pulled into my .exe if I don't use it |
| 17:31:25 | reactormonk | optional dependencies? :-) |
| 17:31:51 | Araq | reactormonk: no need, the optimizer does its job |
| 17:31:59 | Araq | if it has a chance ;-) |
| 17:34:55 | reactormonk | Araq, what about babel? |
| 17:35:28 | Araq | what about it? |
| 17:36:35 | reactormonk | so what if I have a huge dependency that the compiler could optimize out - do I still need to install it? |
| 17:37:39 | Araq | yes you do |
| 17:38:02 | Araq | it's still an "optimization" |
| 17:38:24 | Araq | if you need more control, use 'when' |
| 17:40:22 | Amrykid | Araq, updated |
| 17:40:24 | Amrykid | same url |
| 17:41:48 | Araq | Amrykid: almost :P |
| 17:42:19 | Araq | you need to export loadCfgLocaleData and loadXmlLocaleData so the client can call them instead of 'initLocale' |
| 17:43:00 | Araq | this means locale.table = initTable[string, TTable[string, string]]() needs to be done in the load* procs |
| 17:47:57 | Amrykid | Araq, updated again |
| 17:51:32 | Araq | Amrykid: thanks, will add it later (with some enhancements of mine ;-) ) |
| 17:51:34 | Araq | I have a bad connection, bbl |
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| 22:00:53 | gradha | what's the proper way to send a process exit code in nimrod? does when isMainModule have a result var? |
| 22:01:28 | gradha | it feels strange to call quit(0) at the end of isMainModule, but I guess that's implicit |
| 22:02:00 | Araq | indeed |
| 22:02:09 | Araq | you only need to call quit(1) |
| 22:02:31 | Araq | well that's implicit too if you program dies due to an unhandled exception |
| 22:15:12 | dom96 | there is a var you can change to change the default exit code IIRC |
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| 22:22:08 | dom96 | gradha: Do you know if it's possible to build (&test) iOS apps on a Linux computer? |
| 22:22:51 | gradha | it's not, but you can use a hackintosh or emulator, only macosx xcode can build them |
| 22:23:10 | dom96 | ahh |
| 22:23:32 | gradha | IIRC virtualbox supports macosx, so you can install xcode there and ssh into the vm |
| 22:25:01 | Amrykid | extremely hard to get osx to run in virtualbox though |
| 22:25:04 | gradha | AFAIK that's what https://hosted-ci.com must be doing |
| 22:25:56 | dom96 | oh god, that website's selection color on white text is terrible. |
| 22:26:15 | dom96 | Amrykid: yeah, that's what I'm thinking too. Pity. |
| 22:26:37 | gradha | why would you want to sell your soul though? Android is better anyway |
| 22:26:50 | dom96 | Well I won an iPad mini today :P |
| 22:26:57 | gradha | the horror |
| 22:26:59 | Amrykid | dom96, it requires far more than creating a vhd and setting it up in the interface... it needs a ton of config just to get it to boot |
| 22:27:45 | gradha | Amrykid: is it really that hard? I searched a tutorial some time ago and it didn't seem hard other than carefuly specifying some parameters |
| 22:27:55 | dom96 | winning an apple product feels like such a cliche |
| 22:28:43 | Amrykid | gradha, yeah, I dont remember the specifics as it was half a year ago but I ended up begging XAMPP for his osx vhd which he refused to give me |
| 22:28:53 | Amrykid | iirc, he had trouble with it too |
| 22:29:57 | gradha | dom96: also, you need to pay Apple for the priviledge of developing, and sign an EULA which states they can sew your lips to anything they want |
| 22:30:36 | dom96 | eww, i'm getting an image of that south park episode... |
| 22:32:30 | gradha | hmm... we've only talked about the "good way", I'm sure you can jailbreak the device, so maybe then you can use linux to cross-compile stuff to it without xcode |
| 22:32:48 | gradha | in fact, I would look into cydia development, maybe they replicate xcode stuff to avoid having the need for a mac at all |
| 22:33:49 | gradha | Mono* frameworks also released with big fanfarre that 2.x version support developing in Microsoft Visual studio and pressing a button to compile to the device, so they surely implement their own toolchain too for that |
| 22:43:56 | gradha | according to www.priyaontech.com/download/12/ you can use Theos http://iphonedevwiki.net/index.php/Theos |
| 22:44:14 | gradha | or if you prefer windows maybe http://code.google.com/p/winchain/ |
| 22:45:39 | dom96 | hrm, cool. |
| 22:45:55 | dom96 | I'm away to sleep, good night |
| 22:46:06 | gradha | sleep with EULAs |
| 22:46:11 | gradha | or dream of them |
| 22:46:22 | dom96 | I don't wanna :( |
| 22:51:04 | gradha | I must be doing something really wrong, just received ruby SPAM job offers |
| 22:58:59 | Araq | why is android better than iOS? |
| 22:59:12 | Araq | it's much harder to wrap |
| 22:59:55 | gradha | those are two separate things: android as a useful product to the user, and a programming language (java) with which you would want to interact |
| 23:00:13 | gradha | end users don't know about programming, so they go for features, and android allows you to do more |
| 23:01:02 | gradha | last year I developed the prototype for http://www.lagunfon.com which is an android smartphone tracker for disabled people |
| 23:01:38 | gradha | well, you give it to people who then put it on people with problems, like alzheimer or having health issues, maybe kids, etc, then you track them |
| 23:01:59 | gradha | the cheap android smartphones are perfect enough for tracking and emergency channel communication, much cheaper than dedicated gps units |
| 23:02:04 | Araq | how's the difference in battery life btw? is the VM on android noticable? |
| 23:02:38 | gradha | according to the tests this firm made you depending on the granularity of the tracking you could have normal phones last between two and five days |
| 23:03:10 | gradha | so the "intelligent" thing is to try a hybrid approach |
| 23:03:38 | gradha | still, you can use phones which are basically give away for free with phone lines, and the kind of background tracking or interface hijacking you need to do can't be done on iOS |
| 23:03:51 | gradha | so there you have a piece of technology which is resticted because, and you suck it up |
| 23:04:13 | gradha | people could instead use stuff to help each other and improve society, but money is more important |
| 23:05:38 | gradha | from a premium user POV android may not be better than iOS, but then, premium users are a fraction of the whole world |
| 23:07:36 | Araq | yeah though the premium users buy software for their phone |
| 23:07:50 | Araq | the others only download the cheap stuff |
| 23:08:00 | Araq | well that's what they say anyway |
| 23:10:57 | gradha | the "benefit" of the android vm overhead is that android hardware tends to be more beefed up compared to the same iOS hardware |
| 23:11:20 | gradha | there are many synthetic benchmarks where android devices beat iphones at every level |
| 23:12:11 | gradha | but most of the gripes about android software is people do a lousy job of optimizing their stuff |
| 23:12:36 | gradha | when you learn about ios scrolling and tables you really are learning about a huge premature optimization framework |
| 23:13:19 | gradha | such optimizations tend to be more "hidden" to android developers, or don't care so much about them, so you end up with devices which stutter scrolling a simple list |
| 23:14:31 | gradha | I haven't touched the android SDK recently but another problem is the really underperformant tools, they prevent you from experiencing stuff fast |
| 23:15:04 | gradha | the emulator is terribly slow (hopefully that has changed with virtualization), and the eclipse debugger slows your program so much... ugh... |
| 23:15:20 | gradha | as a developer for android you end up conditioned to think its all slow |
| 23:15:40 | gradha | so maybe that's why people don't tend to optimize |
| 23:15:51 | fowl | gradha: what do you think about tizen |
| 23:16:14 | gradha | know nothing about it |
| 23:17:02 | gradha | is that the mozilla phone or maybe meego evolution? there are far too many wannabe contender platforms to know all of them |
| 23:18:31 | gradha | "With HTML5's robust capabilities and cross platform flexibility,..." yeah, good luck with that |
| 23:19:37 | gradha | I'm always amazed about these "wow, HTML is cross-platform" and then look at the source and has an if/else for each specific device because each renders differently... |
| 23:20:39 | gradha | so anything else to bash? looks like I'm on a roll |
| 23:21:19 | Araq | palmos? |
| 23:21:54 | gradha | man, that had hideous memory constraints |
| 23:22:24 | gradha | paging memory is so fun |
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| 23:23:02 | gradha | palm IIIx had a subhunt game which was fun, so I remade it for iOS |
| 23:24:20 | gradha | I even liked the broken way it rendered graphics, kind of xor operations |
| 23:27:43 | gradha | any improvements to nimrod's wikipedia entry? |
| 23:32:22 | Araq | I suppose not |
| 23:33:04 | gradha | that blog you are preparing, is it already public but empty (like dom96's), are you going to create a new domain, or are you going to go for the facebook crowd? |
| 23:33:58 | Araq | I'm going to create a new domain I guess |
| 23:36:48 | Araq | spoiler: it'll look a bit like nimrod-code.org but the sunset has been replaced by a waterfall :P |
| 23:37:36 | gradha | interesting... the droplets could form rainbows, and the waterfall hide some unicorn |
| 23:37:55 | Araq | yeah ... "could" |
| 23:38:21 | gradha | nimrod, the unicorn at the end of the waterfall |
| 23:38:38 | gradha | it even makes a nice pun on development methodologies |
| 23:39:36 | Araq | and I thought it's about building a tower to God to deride his creation |
| 23:41:02 | gradha | a name that makes you scratch your head is better for marketing |
| 23:45:56 | fowl | lol |
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