00:00:21 | Araq | but since that's still structured it only supports "goto" that is used to leave a block |
00:00:39 | Araq | but yes, you can work around it |
00:00:45 | Araq | and it's even easy |
00:00:57 | Araq | the result is not pretty at all though |
00:01:29 | JRS_ | BASIC doesn't allow jumping out of functions or subs and must be performed within its scope |
00:01:42 | Araq | that's what I remember yes |
00:01:51 | Araq | and that's what can be emulated |
00:02:04 | JRS_ | Cool! |
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00:03:17 | Araq | I would do it this way: |
00:03:57 | Araq | if a function contains no "goto", translate the control flow as is obvious |
00:04:06 | JRS_ | I think GOTO might require your mentoring until Kent and I get up to speed with Nimrod. Armando is much farther ahead and our fist person we goto before we would ask for your help. |
00:04:26 | Araq | it a function contains "goto" you need to translate control flow completely differently |
00:04:40 | Araq | the basic idea is to translate it into: |
00:04:53 | Araq | var state = 0 |
00:04:57 | Araq | while true: |
00:05:00 | Araq | case state |
00:05:11 | Araq | of 0: # begin of function |
00:05:17 | Araq | state = 1 |
00:05:32 | Araq | of 1: ... |
00:05:53 | Araq | a "goto" then translates into an assignment to the "state" variable |
00:07:22 | JRS_ | I've made a copy of the concept (your code) and we will try to make it work. |
00:07:44 | kryton9 | John, I got on because of the undef command in SB |
00:07:47 | JRS_ | Thanks! |
00:07:49 | Araq | however you need to write a proper lexer and parser |
00:08:14 | Araq | the table based translation that you outline in your post ain't gonna cut it |
00:09:55 | Araq | but it surely is a start if I understand it correctly |
00:10:25 | JRS_ | We were just trying to see if SB would work as a translation tool. We also have Daniel (uCalc Transform author) interesed in using his tool for the conversion. We are still looking for sane answers. |
00:11:58 | JRS_ | http://www.ucalc.com/transform.html |
00:14:11 | JRS_ | Daniel is releasing an update today he feels positive about that it would work for the translation. |
00:15:14 | Araq | ok well I need to sleep now |
00:15:20 | kryton9 | the problem is stuff that is for the things not easily translatable, like undef, labels |
00:15:33 | kryton9 | Thanks Araq nice meeting you. Good night |
00:15:36 | Araq | it's 2:15 am here ... |
00:15:42 | JRS_ | The effort is also to help BASIC programmers learn Nimrod. If they can take there stuff with them, all the better. |
00:15:49 | Araq | contact me earlier the next time ;-) |
00:16:01 | kryton9 | will do |
00:16:04 | kryton9 | thanks |
00:16:06 | JRS_ | Thanks ! |
00:16:08 | Araq | JRS_: alright well I can't see any problems |
00:16:43 | Araq | except you might need a more powerful approach to the problem ;-) |
00:17:02 | JRS_ | You got to walk before you run. |
00:17:37 | Araq | sure and no offense |
00:17:42 | Araq | good night |
00:17:48 | JRS_ | ZZZZ |
00:17:49 | kryton9 | bye |
00:18:11 | kryton9 | john can you hangout on google+ |
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00:22:50 | kryton9 | oops, it is getting late and I didn't have dinner yet. I got to run out for some take out. Bye to those still on. Thanks for the help. |
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02:11:33 | Varriount | Hrm |
02:11:53 | Varriount | Araq, anu plans for anything... interface-like? |
02:12:05 | Varriount | *any |
02:25:13 | Demos | I bet you could write a template that used typeclasses for that |
02:25:17 | Demos | or macro |
02:28:42 | fowl_ | Varriount, type classes |
02:30:33 | Demos | taking a typeclass type as a parameter makes a proc generic though right? |
02:30:55 | fowl_ | probably |
02:33:28 | Demos | oh dear I am about to use virtual inheritance in my c++ code, better go to sleep before I do that :D |
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03:24:10 | kryton9 | Hi |
03:25:24 | kryton9 | Anyone know how to get the ascii value of a character in Nimrod: BASIC: ASC("A") or ASC$("A") |
03:25:53 | kryton9 | I looked in strutils and system, but couldn't find anything |
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03:58:42 | Varriount | kryton9, have you tried getting a single character, and casting to int? |
03:59:45 | kryton9 | No Varriount, but I did end up using toOctal() |
03:59:59 | Varriount | :D |
04:00:23 | kryton9 | ScriptBasic is very intelligent and does a lot of things I have not see other places, so it is hard to match everything |
04:00:23 | Varriount | I'm pretty new to nimrod - All I have is silly java and python experience. |
04:00:58 | kryton9 | I am new too, but so far Nimrod looks like a real winner and a great alternative to what is out there. |
04:01:30 | kryton9 | Thanks for offering help, I appreciate it. |
04:01:32 | Varriount | *Looks a C++* *Looks at Nimrod* |
04:01:41 | Varriount | *Goes to Nimrod* |
04:02:26 | kryton9 | I spent the last 2.5 years learning c++, glad I did, but still kept looking for a newer better alternative |
04:02:57 | kryton9 | And the direction the syntax is going with c++11 was a step back to me |
04:03:30 | Varriount | I have a great deal of *theoretical* knowledge |
04:03:45 | kryton9 | that applies everywhere so that is great |
04:04:48 | kryton9 | Another project I really like and has real possibilities, but is currently Windows only is OxygenBasic |
04:05:19 | kryton9 | Like C++ you can do procedural or OOP programming. Very small and compiled to a small executables. |
04:05:55 | Varriount | Odd, I would expect most new things to be linux only. |
04:06:11 | kryton9 | http://www.oxygenbasic.org/downloads.htm always get the in progress zip |
04:06:24 | kryton9 | It will eventually emit out to C to be compiled anywhere. |
04:06:56 | kryton9 | Charles Pegge the developer is an assembly guru and is doing neat things and has more planned. |
04:07:18 | kryton9 | Here is the forums |
04:07:20 | kryton9 | http://www.oxygenbasic.org/forum/index.php?action=unread |
04:07:22 | Varriount | Interesting... |
04:07:44 | kryton9 | Lots of examples. It run under WINE fine in linux |
04:07:55 | Varriount | Tell me, is it something about the inherent personallity, or are most great programmers not to keen on website design? |
04:08:13 | Varriount | *Looks at GNU Web pages* |
04:08:30 | kryton9 | He could care less about web stuff, he likes hard core low level stuff |
04:08:40 | kryton9 | and efficiency |
04:08:58 | kryton9 | It is in alpha, but it is already very useable |
04:09:31 | kryton9 | I was working on developing a 3d game engine for it, but till Charles nails down in stone the foundation, I don't want to code such a big library. |
04:09:42 | kryton9 | Nimrod looks like a good way to go in the meantime |
04:12:14 | kryton9 | Well I gotta get back, I wanna finish all I can do with our project and let the more familiar with basic and nimrod guys take over afterwards. |
04:12:37 | kryton9 | It is after midnight already, will be up for a few more hours I am sure wrapping up. |
04:12:39 | kryton9 | Good night |
04:13:20 | Varriount | Good night. |
04:13:37 | kryton9 | QUIT |
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15:21:55 | dom96 | hi |
15:23:02 | BitPuffin | hey dom96! |
15:23:10 | dom96 | BitPuffin: Hello!!! |
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15:24:21 | dom96 | BitPuffin: what's up? |
15:25:53 | BitPuffin | dom96: woa dat enthusiasm! I'm syncing everythnig in /home to my other computer with bittorrent sync because I'm gonna wipe my machine, and I'm reading Land of Lisp :) and you? |
15:27:17 | dom96 | Just waiting for my pizza :P |
15:28:07 | BitPuffin | dom96: what kind of pizza?? :) |
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15:28:37 | dom96 | Spicy meat feast :P |
15:28:46 | BitPuffin | cool :) |
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17:10:32 | Araq | Varriount: to answer your question from yesterday: a tuple of closures can be used as a replacement for 'interface' |
17:10:45 | * | Araq feels like a broken record already |
17:11:28 | Araq | tests/run/tinterf.nim contains an example |
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17:30:06 | Varriount | Araq, put you answers into nimbot |
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18:08:35 | fowl | Varriount, 'X'.int works, but 'X'.ord is the canonical way to do it |
18:09:31 | Varriount | fowl, huh? |
18:10:06 | fowl | <Varriount> kryton9, have you tried getting a single character, and casting to int? |
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18:16:59 | Varriount | In that instance, I was merely guessing. I'm not quite that knowledgeable. Yet. |
18:19:07 | fowl | thats why im telling u |
18:19:32 | Varriount | Ah, thanks then. |
18:19:33 | fowl | its all good |
18:46:32 | NimBot | Araq/Nimrod vm2 65d572a Araq [+0 ±1 -0]: fixed definition of culong on win64 |
18:46:32 | NimBot | Araq/Nimrod vm2 89f9b36 Araq [+0 ±1 -0]: attempt to improve line information for '!=' etc. templates |
18:46:32 | NimBot | Araq/Nimrod vm2 41d591c Araq [+0 ±11 -0]: compiler bootstraps with new VM |
18:46:32 | NimBot | Araq/Nimrod vm2 335f232 Araq [+0 ±3 -0]: some complex macros work |
18:46:32 | NimBot | 1 more commits. |
18:47:04 | Araq | let's see if nimbuild can deal with this ... :-) |
18:47:26 | Varriount | I'll start mine up. |
18:47:43 | fowl | woot |
18:47:50 | fowl | i bet my macros dont work lol |
18:48:08 | Araq | you'd win this bet :P |
18:48:18 | Araq | however at least xmltree works |
18:48:37 | fowl | although a lot of times i had to work around the current system |
18:48:57 | fowl | wanting do something like this never worked |
18:49:05 | Araq | well it should be vastly more stable when I'm done with it |
18:49:08 | fowl | var typebas = (object type with a few fields) |
18:49:18 | fowl | if something: typebas = refty(typebase) |
18:49:21 | Varriount | Unfortunately, I can't run both windows builders at the same time |
18:49:34 | Araq | why not, Varriount ? |
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18:52:50 | Varriount | Well, I'm afraid that they might conflict |
18:53:36 | Varriount | But I'll try... |
18:54:48 | Araq | well apparently not even the tester compiles with vm2 ... |
18:54:54 | * | Araq sighes |
18:55:55 | * | Varriount gives a cookie to Araq |
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19:10:40 | dom96 | yay, nice to see Nimbuilds branch functionality put to use. |
19:12:27 | Araq | I don't get it |
19:12:40 | Araq | slurp works when bootstrapping but not for tester.nim |
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19:27:06 | fowl | dom96, is there a way to say that opengl requires x11 when on linux |
19:28:26 | dom96 | no |
19:30:14 | Araq | we should replace every configuration file with a nimrod file ... |
19:30:36 | fowl | heh |
19:30:44 | fowl | probably the reason gemspecs are ruby scripts |
19:32:48 | fowl | cairo, gtk2, x11 and opengl are ready, they just need authors and versions |
19:33:13 | Araq | Version 1.0 |
19:33:50 | Araq | opengl: me; gtk2: dom96, cairo: fowl |
19:34:13 | fowl | i didnt do cairo |
19:34:41 | Araq | ok then it's me :P |
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19:44:37 | kryton9 | Hi |
19:44:51 | Araq | kryton9: use 'ord' to get the ascii value |
19:45:11 | kryton9 | ok thanks. |
19:46:11 | kryton9 | PRINT LEFT("One Two Three", 3) |
19:46:22 | kryton9 | would return One |
19:46:30 | kryton9 | can't figure it out |
19:46:46 | Araq | echo "one two three"[0..2] |
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19:47:13 | kryton9 | Oh, I knew it had to be easy... just couldn't figure it out |
19:47:14 | kryton9 | thanks |
19:47:35 | kryton9 | one last thing, how can I echo without getting line feeds? |
19:47:59 | Araq | proc left(s: string, n: int): string = s[0..n-1] |
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19:48:41 | Araq | you have to use write instead of echo to not get any line feeds |
19:49:22 | kryton9 | Ah, I am so glad you are saving me lots of hours. I spent looking but got stuck. Now I can finish my code sample. |
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19:50:15 | kryton9 | How about a MID function? give start position and how many chars to get? |
19:50:31 | fowl | substr is what its called in every other language |
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19:51:33 | Araq | kryton9: http://nimrod-code.org/theindex.html |
19:51:53 | kryton9 | Thanks guys, this gives me an idea to maybe work on a cheatsheet for BASIC users to Nimrod. |
19:55:11 | kryton9 | Thanks Araq. This is fun and hopefully will get many more users to wonderful Nimrod! |
20:01:27 | kryton9 | PRINT VAL("Z") returns 0 in BASIC: PRINT VAL("Z123") returns 123 |
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20:01:44 | kryton9 | parseInt() works for numbers, how can I do mix of numbers and letters? |
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20:02:14 | fowl | kryton9, are you really expecting a 1:1 correlation between BASIC and Nimrod? |
20:02:37 | fowl | kryton9, my suggestion is write your own "std lib" that emulates basic if you need to do that |
20:02:49 | kryton9 | No, just how to do similar things so I can document and make examples for Basic users to come to Nimrod |
20:03:05 | fowl | off the top of my head though, i cant think of a function in nimrod that acts that way |
20:03:31 | kryton9 | Hmmm, that is an idea to, to make a std lib for basic |
20:08:21 | kryton9 | I suggested it to our project leader fowl, thanks. |
20:09:40 | NimBot | nimrod-code/packages master c05ba3f Billingsly Wetherfordshire [+0 ±1 -0]: added 7 packages extracted from Nimrod's stdlib... 2 more lines |
20:10:57 | dom96 | fowl: You might want to change the description for each package. |
20:11:16 | fowl | yea i just saw that |
20:11:31 | fowl | lame that i have to repeat each description -_- |
20:12:27 | kryton9 | How often do you guys update your local Nimrod sources? |
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20:12:44 | fowl | i do almost every day |
20:12:54 | kryton9 | Oh wow, Ok |
20:13:01 | kryton9 | I will have to start doing that. |
20:13:18 | fowl | git pull; nimrod c koch; ./koch boot -d:release -d:usegnureadline -d:useffi |
20:13:33 | kryton9 | thanks fowl! |
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20:13:57 | Varriount | I have a script which symlinks all files in a "common" nimrod directory to 32 and 64 bit build folders |
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20:14:14 | Varriount | Makes development so much easier. |
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20:15:00 | kryton9 | Thanks for the tips guys, I am also new to linux, but getting there. I understand at least what you are saying. |
20:15:19 | Varriount | Erm, I'm using Windows |
20:15:25 | Varriount | -_- |
20:15:33 | fowl | lol dom96 why is babel a babel package, how does that work |
20:15:42 | Varriount | Babelception |
20:15:47 | dom96 | ^ |
20:15:58 | fowl | do you have it installed that way? |
20:16:06 | dom96 | yeah |
20:16:20 | dom96 | keeps all my binaries in one place |
20:16:34 | fowl | i just have symlinks in ~/local/bin |
20:16:39 | dom96 | so I can just add ~/.babel/bin to my PATH |
20:16:45 | fowl | nimrod is in ~/projects/Nimrod and babel is ~/projects/babel |
20:17:48 | NimBot | nimrod-code/packages master 150910c Billingsly Wetherfordshire [+0 ±1 -0]: fixed the descriptions for the new packages |
20:17:59 | Araq | fowl: Babel is written in itself :P |
20:18:27 | fowl | can someone remove all those from stdlib |
20:19:35 | Araq | some people will hate us for that |
20:19:46 | Araq | nimrod used to have batteries included |
20:20:17 | Araq | now people need to learn yet another package manager |
20:20:20 | fowl | if you are distributing electronics you save a lot of $ by not including batteries |
20:20:44 | fowl | even though, if you do include batteries, they are the cheapest chinese brand you can find |
20:20:55 | fowl | tell them it saves money |
20:21:37 | Araq | I'll tell them it makes Nimrod more popular on github due to flawed statistics |
20:23:59 | dom96 | I think we should replace the modules with stuff like {.error: "Module is no longer available in the stdlib, use babel to install by running: babel install gtk2".} |
20:24:12 | dom96 | so that people are informed |
20:24:38 | fowl | then it will conflict with babel packages |
20:25:06 | dom96 | hrm, true. |
20:25:33 | fowl | i think a notice on the std library page should be fine |
20:25:47 | Araq | speaking of which ... |
20:25:51 | dom96 | announcement on the forum would be nice too |
20:26:05 | Araq | how do we build the docs for them and integrate them? |
20:26:37 | Araq | I guess we make a "Babel" section on the libs.html? |
20:26:50 | dom96 | Going to have to build something which clones each repo in the packages.json file and then builds docs for it |
20:28:05 | dom96 | A link here should be fine: http://nimrod-code.org/documentation.html |
20:31:16 | Varriount | dom96, thinking of setting something up like pypi or cpan? |
20:31:33 | dom96 | Yes, this was always my plan. |
20:32:36 | dom96 | But with the fact that packages are hosted in a place which is outside our control it will probably be something like that D package website thing. |
20:33:23 | dom96 | Cloning so many repos and keeping them up-to-date sounds like hell though. |
20:33:53 | Varriount | Why would you be keeping repo's up to date? |
20:34:41 | Varriount | If github, atlassian, etc is hosting the packages, then all Babel has to do is use the appropriate tools to download them to the user. |
20:34:52 | dom96 | because we want the docs to be up-to-date |
20:35:33 | Varriount | Erm, let the one's who submit the packages provide a link to documentation? |
20:38:00 | Araq | that doesn't work |
20:38:17 | Araq | many people don't have anything where it could be uploaded |
20:38:37 | Araq | github doesn't support arbitrary html files I think |
20:38:42 | Araq | or does it? |
20:39:02 | dom96 | yeah, and many people are lazy. We would end up with 90% packages having no docs. |
20:39:35 | Varriount | I'm just concerned with the monetary cost of such an endeavor. |
20:40:16 | Varriount | (Unless, of course, someone here has a great deal of money to spare) |
20:41:53 | fowl | how about `babel docs` that builds all the docs for all the currently installed packages |
20:42:04 | fowl | or make it a step of installation |
20:42:57 | dom96 | it's nicer if you can just view them all online |
20:46:05 | dom96 | Varriount: The forum and nimbuild already requires a server, there is no extra monetary cost to a babel package docs builder. |
20:47:18 | Varriount | I think I misunderstood you earlier, so let me just ask, you're not planning to *host* the documentation, are you? |
20:47:48 | Varriount | And by documentation, I mean documentation for every package submitted to babel |
20:47:59 | dom96 | I am. |
20:48:33 | dom96 | I'm confused now. |
20:48:53 | Varriount | dom96, hosting documentation costs money. |
20:49:15 | Varriount | I'm guessing that the current server is hosted on a fixed plan, for so much bandwidth and memory per month |
20:49:34 | fowl | the docs are just html |
20:49:36 | dom96 | There is plenty of room on the server. |
20:49:51 | Varriount | Now, maybe, but what about in the future? |
20:50:01 | dom96 | yeah. A couple of docs will not require me to upgrade to a higher priced plan. |
20:50:38 | Varriount | *shrug* just putting some points out there. |
20:52:15 | dom96 | It's unlikely to happen in the near future and if it does then I can always pull the plug. |
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20:53:27 | fowl | anybody have xcms.h ? |
20:53:44 | Varriount | Is it a linux header, or a windows header? |
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20:53:48 | fowl | linux |
20:53:51 | fowl | part of x11 |
21:14:08 | fowl | im going to combine lauxlib and lualib into lua.nim |
21:14:17 | fowl | and put my lua 5.2 wrapper in there |
21:14:24 | Araq | ok great |
21:15:24 | fowl | is there `==` for cstrings |
21:15:54 | Araq | I think so but it's not compile-time evaluable |
21:17:01 | fowl | aha i thought there was but using "hello".cstring twice was using the same string |
21:21:42 | Araq | well it compares pointer values |
21:21:47 | fowl | yea |
21:21:51 | Araq | so it's not very useful :P |
21:22:03 | fowl | i dont feel like importing strcomp |
21:22:16 | fowl | so, $cstring1 == $cstring2 |
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22:14:21 | kryton9 | I used to use http://www.hostgator.com/ they have unlimited bandwidth for low prices. I stopped using it because I hadn't done anything in over a year on it. But I was happy with them, while I had them. |
22:14:57 | * | ltbarcly quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.) |
22:14:59 | kryton9 | I was on the cheapest plan something like $4 a month and had great download speeds. |
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23:07:36 | Varriount | It's almost creepy how easily I'm translating python source code to nimrod source code. >_> |
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23:27:16 | kryton9 | I found out echo() sometimes works without () and other times it needs it. |
23:27:40 | Varriount | *shrug* |
23:27:57 | fowl | kryton9, when you call a function as a statement, you can leave off the parens |
23:28:28 | fowl | file.write "hello" |
23:28:32 | kryton9 | thanks will put that in my notes, fowl. |
23:28:42 | fowl | have you read the tutorial btw |
23:28:50 | Varriount | I just found out that you can do something like: var a, b = 1, but can't do: var a, b = len(inputString) |
23:29:22 | fowl | Varriount, works for me |
23:29:24 | kryton9 | I am going through all of the documentations, but since pressed for time not as in depth as i would like |
23:29:51 | Varriount | fowl, patch.lengthOne, patch.lengthTwo = len(precontext) |
23:30:28 | fowl | what do you aim for that to do |
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23:31:01 | Varriount | fowl, assign both patch.lengthOne and patch.lengthTwo the length of precontext |
23:31:30 | fowl | are you just throwing code at nimrod and learning by failure? id recommend the tutorial then the manual |
23:31:31 | Varriount | I don't actually know what part is plays, I'm just translating it from another language. |
23:31:40 | fowl | a = b = 0 <- not supported in nimrod |
23:31:53 | Varriount | fowl, but a, b = 0 is supported |
23:31:59 | fowl | Varriount, no, it isnt |
23:32:14 | Varriount | Try it. |
23:32:19 | fowl | var a,b: int |
23:32:19 | fowl | a,b = 3 |
23:32:23 | fowl | you try it |
23:33:04 | Varriount | >>> var a, b = 4 |
23:33:04 | Varriount | >>> echo(a) |
23:33:04 | Varriount | 4 |
23:33:04 | Varriount | >>> echo(b) |
23:33:04 | Varriount | 4 |
23:33:05 | Varriount | >>> |
23:33:31 | fowl | not quite the same thing as "a, b = 0" is it |
23:33:49 | Varriount | ? |
23:34:19 | fowl | Varriount, the var keyword means you're declaring a variable, trying "a, b = x" is some kind of assignment (in another language, probably unpacking a tuple or array) |
23:34:27 | Varriount | I know that. |
23:34:44 | Varriount | I left the var declarations out of my original example silly. |
23:35:04 | fowl | saying that "a, b = 0" is supported is not true |
23:35:32 | fowl | so maybe dont leave out important things (keywords are important) |
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23:43:01 | fowl | im sure im just be anal, right |
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23:54:57 | OrionPK | fowl, any idea why the renderer doesnt pick up/render pragmas on types? |
23:55:24 | OrionPK | or render "*" public symbols |
23:56:03 | fowl | OrionPK, you're talking about the documentation renderer? |
23:56:43 | OrionPK | fowl the renderer compiler module, dont think it's specific to the documentation rendering |
23:56:50 | OrionPK | # This module implements the renderer of the standard Nimrod representation. |
23:57:26 | fowl | well.. only exported symbols show up in documentation |
23:57:36 | OrionPK | not talking about documentation |
23:59:00 | fowl | i dont know what you're talking about |
23:59:26 | OrionPK | nevermind then, I'll have to ask araq I guess |