<< 16-10-2013 >>

00:00:21Araqbut since that's still structured it only supports "goto" that is used to leave a block
00:00:39Araqbut yes, you can work around it
00:00:45Araqand it's even easy
00:00:57Araqthe result is not pretty at all though
00:01:29JRS_BASIC doesn't allow jumping out of functions or subs and must be performed within its scope
00:01:42Araqthat's what I remember yes
00:01:51Araqand that's what can be emulated
00:02:04JRS_Cool!
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00:03:17AraqI would do it this way:
00:03:57Araqif a function contains no "goto", translate the control flow as is obvious
00:04:06JRS_I think GOTO might require your mentoring until Kent and I get up to speed with Nimrod. Armando is much farther ahead and our fist person we goto before we would ask for your help.
00:04:26Araqit a function contains "goto" you need to translate control flow completely differently
00:04:40Araqthe basic idea is to translate it into:
00:04:53Araqvar state = 0
00:04:57Araqwhile true:
00:05:00Araq case state
00:05:11Araq of 0: # begin of function
00:05:17Araq state = 1
00:05:32Araq of 1: ...
00:05:53Araqa "goto" then translates into an assignment to the "state" variable
00:07:22JRS_I've made a copy of the concept (your code) and we will try to make it work.
00:07:44kryton9John, I got on because of the undef command in SB
00:07:47JRS_Thanks!
00:07:49Araqhowever you need to write a proper lexer and parser
00:08:14Araqthe table based translation that you outline in your post ain't gonna cut it
00:09:55Araqbut it surely is a start if I understand it correctly
00:10:25JRS_We were just trying to see if SB would work as a translation tool. We also have Daniel (uCalc Transform author) interesed in using his tool for the conversion. We are still looking for sane answers.
00:11:58JRS_http://www.ucalc.com/transform.html
00:14:11JRS_Daniel is releasing an update today he feels positive about that it would work for the translation.
00:15:14Araqok well I need to sleep now
00:15:20kryton9the problem is stuff that is for the things not easily translatable, like undef, labels
00:15:33kryton9Thanks Araq nice meeting you. Good night
00:15:36Araqit's 2:15 am here ...
00:15:42JRS_The effort is also to help BASIC programmers learn Nimrod. If they can take there stuff with them, all the better.
00:15:49Araqcontact me earlier the next time ;-)
00:16:01kryton9will do
00:16:04kryton9thanks
00:16:06JRS_Thanks !
00:16:08AraqJRS_: alright well I can't see any problems
00:16:43Araqexcept you might need a more powerful approach to the problem ;-)
00:17:02JRS_You got to walk before you run.
00:17:37Araqsure and no offense
00:17:42Araqgood night
00:17:48JRS_ZZZZ
00:17:49kryton9bye
00:18:11kryton9john can you hangout on google+
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00:22:50kryton9oops, it is getting late and I didn't have dinner yet. I got to run out for some take out. Bye to those still on. Thanks for the help.
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02:11:33Varriount Hrm
02:11:53VarriountAraq, anu plans for anything... interface-like?
02:12:05Varriount*any
02:25:13DemosI bet you could write a template that used typeclasses for that
02:25:17Demosor macro
02:28:42fowl_Varriount, type classes
02:30:33Demostaking a typeclass type as a parameter makes a proc generic though right?
02:30:55fowl_probably
02:33:28Demosoh dear I am about to use virtual inheritance in my c++ code, better go to sleep before I do that :D
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03:24:10kryton9Hi
03:25:24kryton9Anyone know how to get the ascii value of a character in Nimrod: BASIC: ASC("A") or ASC$("A")
03:25:53kryton9I looked in strutils and system, but couldn't find anything
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03:58:42Varriountkryton9, have you tried getting a single character, and casting to int?
03:59:45kryton9No Varriount, but I did end up using toOctal()
03:59:59Varriount:D
04:00:23kryton9ScriptBasic is very intelligent and does a lot of things I have not see other places, so it is hard to match everything
04:00:23VarriountI'm pretty new to nimrod - All I have is silly java and python experience.
04:00:58kryton9I am new too, but so far Nimrod looks like a real winner and a great alternative to what is out there.
04:01:30kryton9Thanks for offering help, I appreciate it.
04:01:32Varriount*Looks a C++* *Looks at Nimrod*
04:01:41Varriount*Goes to Nimrod*
04:02:26kryton9I spent the last 2.5 years learning c++, glad I did, but still kept looking for a newer better alternative
04:02:57kryton9And the direction the syntax is going with c++11 was a step back to me
04:03:30VarriountI have a great deal of *theoretical* knowledge
04:03:45kryton9that applies everywhere so that is great
04:04:48kryton9Another project I really like and has real possibilities, but is currently Windows only is OxygenBasic
04:05:19kryton9Like C++ you can do procedural or OOP programming. Very small and compiled to a small executables.
04:05:55VarriountOdd, I would expect most new things to be linux only.
04:06:11kryton9http://www.oxygenbasic.org/downloads.htm always get the in progress zip
04:06:24kryton9It will eventually emit out to C to be compiled anywhere.
04:06:56kryton9Charles Pegge the developer is an assembly guru and is doing neat things and has more planned.
04:07:18kryton9Here is the forums
04:07:20kryton9http://www.oxygenbasic.org/forum/index.php?action=unread
04:07:22VarriountInteresting...
04:07:44kryton9Lots of examples. It run under WINE fine in linux
04:07:55VarriountTell me, is it something about the inherent personallity, or are most great programmers not to keen on website design?
04:08:13Varriount*Looks at GNU Web pages*
04:08:30kryton9He could care less about web stuff, he likes hard core low level stuff
04:08:40kryton9and efficiency
04:08:58kryton9It is in alpha, but it is already very useable
04:09:31kryton9I was working on developing a 3d game engine for it, but till Charles nails down in stone the foundation, I don't want to code such a big library.
04:09:42kryton9Nimrod looks like a good way to go in the meantime
04:12:14kryton9Well I gotta get back, I wanna finish all I can do with our project and let the more familiar with basic and nimrod guys take over afterwards.
04:12:37kryton9It is after midnight already, will be up for a few more hours I am sure wrapping up.
04:12:39kryton9Good night
04:13:20VarriountGood night.
04:13:37kryton9QUIT
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15:21:55dom96hi
15:23:02BitPuffinhey dom96!
15:23:10dom96BitPuffin: Hello!!!
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15:24:21dom96BitPuffin: what's up?
15:25:53BitPuffindom96: woa dat enthusiasm! I'm syncing everythnig in /home to my other computer with bittorrent sync because I'm gonna wipe my machine, and I'm reading Land of Lisp :) and you?
15:27:17dom96Just waiting for my pizza :P
15:28:07BitPuffindom96: what kind of pizza?? :)
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15:28:37dom96Spicy meat feast :P
15:28:46BitPuffincool :)
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17:10:32AraqVarriount: to answer your question from yesterday: a tuple of closures can be used as a replacement for 'interface'
17:10:45*Araq feels like a broken record already
17:11:28Araqtests/run/tinterf.nim contains an example
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17:30:06VarriountAraq, put you answers into nimbot
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18:08:35fowlVarriount, 'X'.int works, but 'X'.ord is the canonical way to do it
18:09:31Varriountfowl, huh?
18:10:06fowl<Varriount> kryton9, have you tried getting a single character, and casting to int?
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18:16:59VarriountIn that instance, I was merely guessing. I'm not quite that knowledgeable. Yet.
18:19:07fowlthats why im telling u
18:19:32VarriountAh, thanks then.
18:19:33fowlits all good
18:46:32NimBotAraq/Nimrod vm2 65d572a Araq [+0 ±1 -0]: fixed definition of culong on win64
18:46:32NimBotAraq/Nimrod vm2 89f9b36 Araq [+0 ±1 -0]: attempt to improve line information for '!=' etc. templates
18:46:32NimBotAraq/Nimrod vm2 41d591c Araq [+0 ±11 -0]: compiler bootstraps with new VM
18:46:32NimBotAraq/Nimrod vm2 335f232 Araq [+0 ±3 -0]: some complex macros work
18:46:32NimBot1 more commits.
18:47:04Araqlet's see if nimbuild can deal with this ... :-)
18:47:26VarriountI'll start mine up.
18:47:43fowlwoot
18:47:50fowli bet my macros dont work lol
18:48:08Araqyou'd win this bet :P
18:48:18Araqhowever at least xmltree works
18:48:37fowlalthough a lot of times i had to work around the current system
18:48:57fowlwanting do something like this never worked
18:49:05Araqwell it should be vastly more stable when I'm done with it
18:49:08fowlvar typebas = (object type with a few fields)
18:49:18fowlif something: typebas = refty(typebase)
18:49:21VarriountUnfortunately, I can't run both windows builders at the same time
18:49:34Araqwhy not, Varriount ?
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18:52:50VarriountWell, I'm afraid that they might conflict
18:53:36VarriountBut I'll try...
18:54:48Araqwell apparently not even the tester compiles with vm2 ...
18:54:54*Araq sighes
18:55:55*Varriount gives a cookie to Araq
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19:10:40dom96yay, nice to see Nimbuilds branch functionality put to use.
19:12:27AraqI don't get it
19:12:40Araqslurp works when bootstrapping but not for tester.nim
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19:27:06fowldom96, is there a way to say that opengl requires x11 when on linux
19:28:26dom96no
19:30:14Araqwe should replace every configuration file with a nimrod file ...
19:30:36fowlheh
19:30:44fowlprobably the reason gemspecs are ruby scripts
19:32:48fowlcairo, gtk2, x11 and opengl are ready, they just need authors and versions
19:33:13AraqVersion 1.0
19:33:50Araqopengl: me; gtk2: dom96, cairo: fowl
19:34:13fowli didnt do cairo
19:34:41Araqok then it's me :P
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19:44:37kryton9Hi
19:44:51Araqkryton9: use 'ord' to get the ascii value
19:45:11kryton9ok thanks.
19:46:11kryton9PRINT LEFT("One Two Three", 3)
19:46:22kryton9would return One
19:46:30kryton9can't figure it out
19:46:46Araqecho "one two three"[0..2]
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19:47:13kryton9Oh, I knew it had to be easy... just couldn't figure it out
19:47:14kryton9thanks
19:47:35kryton9one last thing, how can I echo without getting line feeds?
19:47:59Araqproc left(s: string, n: int): string = s[0..n-1]
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19:48:41Araqyou have to use write instead of echo to not get any line feeds
19:49:22kryton9Ah, I am so glad you are saving me lots of hours. I spent looking but got stuck. Now I can finish my code sample.
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19:50:15kryton9How about a MID function? give start position and how many chars to get?
19:50:31fowlsubstr is what its called in every other language
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19:51:33Araqkryton9: http://nimrod-code.org/theindex.html
19:51:53kryton9Thanks guys, this gives me an idea to maybe work on a cheatsheet for BASIC users to Nimrod.
19:55:11kryton9Thanks Araq. This is fun and hopefully will get many more users to wonderful Nimrod!
20:01:27kryton9PRINT VAL("Z") returns 0 in BASIC: PRINT VAL("Z123") returns 123
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20:01:44kryton9parseInt() works for numbers, how can I do mix of numbers and letters?
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20:02:14fowlkryton9, are you really expecting a 1:1 correlation between BASIC and Nimrod?
20:02:37fowlkryton9, my suggestion is write your own "std lib" that emulates basic if you need to do that
20:02:49kryton9No, just how to do similar things so I can document and make examples for Basic users to come to Nimrod
20:03:05fowloff the top of my head though, i cant think of a function in nimrod that acts that way
20:03:31kryton9Hmmm, that is an idea to, to make a std lib for basic
20:08:21kryton9I suggested it to our project leader fowl, thanks.
20:09:40NimBotnimrod-code/packages master c05ba3f Billingsly Wetherfordshire [+0 ±1 -0]: added 7 packages extracted from Nimrod's stdlib... 2 more lines
20:10:57dom96fowl: You might want to change the description for each package.
20:11:16fowlyea i just saw that
20:11:31fowllame that i have to repeat each description -_-
20:12:27kryton9How often do you guys update your local Nimrod sources?
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20:12:44fowli do almost every day
20:12:54kryton9Oh wow, Ok
20:13:01kryton9I will have to start doing that.
20:13:18fowlgit pull; nimrod c koch; ./koch boot -d:release -d:usegnureadline -d:useffi
20:13:33kryton9thanks fowl!
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20:13:57VarriountI have a script which symlinks all files in a "common" nimrod directory to 32 and 64 bit build folders
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20:14:14VarriountMakes development so much easier.
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20:15:00kryton9Thanks for the tips guys, I am also new to linux, but getting there. I understand at least what you are saying.
20:15:19VarriountErm, I'm using Windows
20:15:25Varriount-_-
20:15:33fowllol dom96 why is babel a babel package, how does that work
20:15:42VarriountBabelception
20:15:47dom96^
20:15:58fowldo you have it installed that way?
20:16:06dom96yeah
20:16:20dom96keeps all my binaries in one place
20:16:34fowli just have symlinks in ~/local/bin
20:16:39dom96so I can just add ~/.babel/bin to my PATH
20:16:45fowlnimrod is in ~/projects/Nimrod and babel is ~/projects/babel
20:17:48NimBotnimrod-code/packages master 150910c Billingsly Wetherfordshire [+0 ±1 -0]: fixed the descriptions for the new packages
20:17:59Araqfowl: Babel is written in itself :P
20:18:27fowlcan someone remove all those from stdlib
20:19:35Araqsome people will hate us for that
20:19:46Araqnimrod used to have batteries included
20:20:17Araqnow people need to learn yet another package manager
20:20:20fowlif you are distributing electronics you save a lot of $ by not including batteries
20:20:44fowleven though, if you do include batteries, they are the cheapest chinese brand you can find
20:20:55fowltell them it saves money
20:21:37AraqI'll tell them it makes Nimrod more popular on github due to flawed statistics
20:23:59dom96I think we should replace the modules with stuff like {.error: "Module is no longer available in the stdlib, use babel to install by running: babel install gtk2".}
20:24:12dom96so that people are informed
20:24:38fowlthen it will conflict with babel packages
20:25:06dom96hrm, true.
20:25:33fowli think a notice on the std library page should be fine
20:25:47Araqspeaking of which ...
20:25:51dom96announcement on the forum would be nice too
20:26:05Araqhow do we build the docs for them and integrate them?
20:26:37AraqI guess we make a "Babel" section on the libs.html?
20:26:50dom96Going to have to build something which clones each repo in the packages.json file and then builds docs for it
20:28:05dom96A link here should be fine: http://nimrod-code.org/documentation.html
20:31:16Varriountdom96, thinking of setting something up like pypi or cpan?
20:31:33dom96Yes, this was always my plan.
20:32:36dom96But with the fact that packages are hosted in a place which is outside our control it will probably be something like that D package website thing.
20:33:23dom96Cloning so many repos and keeping them up-to-date sounds like hell though.
20:33:53VarriountWhy would you be keeping repo's up to date?
20:34:41VarriountIf github, atlassian, etc is hosting the packages, then all Babel has to do is use the appropriate tools to download them to the user.
20:34:52dom96because we want the docs to be up-to-date
20:35:33VarriountErm, let the one's who submit the packages provide a link to documentation?
20:38:00Araqthat doesn't work
20:38:17Araqmany people don't have anything where it could be uploaded
20:38:37Araqgithub doesn't support arbitrary html files I think
20:38:42Araqor does it?
20:39:02dom96yeah, and many people are lazy. We would end up with 90% packages having no docs.
20:39:35VarriountI'm just concerned with the monetary cost of such an endeavor.
20:40:16Varriount(Unless, of course, someone here has a great deal of money to spare)
20:41:53fowlhow about `babel docs` that builds all the docs for all the currently installed packages
20:42:04fowlor make it a step of installation
20:42:57dom96it's nicer if you can just view them all online
20:46:05dom96Varriount: The forum and nimbuild already requires a server, there is no extra monetary cost to a babel package docs builder.
20:47:18VarriountI think I misunderstood you earlier, so let me just ask, you're not planning to *host* the documentation, are you?
20:47:48VarriountAnd by documentation, I mean documentation for every package submitted to babel
20:47:59dom96I am.
20:48:33dom96I'm confused now.
20:48:53Varriountdom96, hosting documentation costs money.
20:49:15VarriountI'm guessing that the current server is hosted on a fixed plan, for so much bandwidth and memory per month
20:49:34fowlthe docs are just html
20:49:36dom96There is plenty of room on the server.
20:49:51VarriountNow, maybe, but what about in the future?
20:50:01dom96yeah. A couple of docs will not require me to upgrade to a higher priced plan.
20:50:38Varriount*shrug* just putting some points out there.
20:52:15dom96It's unlikely to happen in the near future and if it does then I can always pull the plug.
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20:53:27fowlanybody have xcms.h ?
20:53:44VarriountIs it a linux header, or a windows header?
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20:53:48fowllinux
20:53:51fowlpart of x11
21:14:08fowlim going to combine lauxlib and lualib into lua.nim
21:14:17fowland put my lua 5.2 wrapper in there
21:14:24Araqok great
21:15:24fowlis there `==` for cstrings
21:15:54AraqI think so but it's not compile-time evaluable
21:17:01fowlaha i thought there was but using "hello".cstring twice was using the same string
21:21:42Araqwell it compares pointer values
21:21:47fowlyea
21:21:51Araqso it's not very useful :P
21:22:03fowli dont feel like importing strcomp
21:22:16fowlso, $cstring1 == $cstring2
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22:14:21kryton9I used to use http://www.hostgator.com/ they have unlimited bandwidth for low prices. I stopped using it because I hadn't done anything in over a year on it. But I was happy with them, while I had them.
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22:14:59kryton9I was on the cheapest plan something like $4 a month and had great download speeds.
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23:07:36VarriountIt's almost creepy how easily I'm translating python source code to nimrod source code. >_>
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23:27:16kryton9I found out echo() sometimes works without () and other times it needs it.
23:27:40Varriount*shrug*
23:27:57fowlkryton9, when you call a function as a statement, you can leave off the parens
23:28:28fowlfile.write "hello"
23:28:32kryton9thanks will put that in my notes, fowl.
23:28:42fowlhave you read the tutorial btw
23:28:50VarriountI just found out that you can do something like: var a, b = 1, but can't do: var a, b = len(inputString)
23:29:22fowlVarriount, works for me
23:29:24kryton9I am going through all of the documentations, but since pressed for time not as in depth as i would like
23:29:51Varriountfowl, patch.lengthOne, patch.lengthTwo = len(precontext)
23:30:28fowlwhat do you aim for that to do
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23:31:01Varriountfowl, assign both patch.lengthOne and patch.lengthTwo the length of precontext
23:31:30fowlare you just throwing code at nimrod and learning by failure? id recommend the tutorial then the manual
23:31:31VarriountI don't actually know what part is plays, I'm just translating it from another language.
23:31:40fowla = b = 0 <- not supported in nimrod
23:31:53Varriountfowl, but a, b = 0 is supported
23:31:59fowlVarriount, no, it isnt
23:32:14VarriountTry it.
23:32:19fowlvar a,b: int
23:32:19fowla,b = 3
23:32:23fowlyou try it
23:33:04Varriount>>> var a, b = 4
23:33:04Varriount>>> echo(a)
23:33:04Varriount4
23:33:04Varriount>>> echo(b)
23:33:04Varriount4
23:33:05Varriount>>>
23:33:31fowlnot quite the same thing as "a, b = 0" is it
23:33:49Varriount?
23:34:19fowlVarriount, the var keyword means you're declaring a variable, trying "a, b = x" is some kind of assignment (in another language, probably unpacking a tuple or array)
23:34:27VarriountI know that.
23:34:44VarriountI left the var declarations out of my original example silly.
23:35:04fowlsaying that "a, b = 0" is supported is not true
23:35:32fowlso maybe dont leave out important things (keywords are important)
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23:43:01fowlim sure im just be anal, right
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23:54:57OrionPKfowl, any idea why the renderer doesnt pick up/render pragmas on types?
23:55:24OrionPKor render "*" public symbols
23:56:03fowlOrionPK, you're talking about the documentation renderer?
23:56:43OrionPKfowl the renderer compiler module, dont think it's specific to the documentation rendering
23:56:50OrionPK# This module implements the renderer of the standard Nimrod representation.
23:57:26fowlwell.. only exported symbols show up in documentation
23:57:36OrionPKnot talking about documentation
23:59:00fowli dont know what you're talking about
23:59:26OrionPKnevermind then, I'll have to ask araq I guess