| 00:11:16 | ack006 | portably, that's the crux. |
| 00:12:10 | Araq | well I can live with a linux only version for a start |
| 00:14:55 | ack006 | then you already have a good market share. i'll see if i can find more info wrt. portability, but it doesn't look good :-( |
| 00:18:27 | Araq | ack006: I think 'niminst csource' should continue to do what it did |
| 00:19:17 | Araq | I mean srcdist should call 'writeInstallScript' |
| 00:20:07 | ack006 | was afraid you were going to say that :-) but srcdist should only be run after a succesful bootstrap, not? |
| 00:20:22 | ack006 | and the successful bootstrap creates the install scripts... |
| 00:20:32 | Araq | niminst is a tool of its own |
| 00:20:42 | ack006 | ok will add it, no prob. |
| 00:21:22 | Araq | and I think 'koch ' should not generate it after bootstrapping |
| 00:21:42 | Araq | add some new command to koch instead |
| 00:21:52 | Araq | and update the build instructions |
| 00:21:52 | ack006 | well, then users will have to use an extra command to koch |
| 00:22:07 | ack006 | an extra command in install procedure i mean |
| 00:22:27 | Araq | well 'koch install' may be a good idea to introduce |
| 00:22:27 | ack006 | ok will add these, but tomorrow if you don't mind :-) |
| 00:22:27 | Araq | np |
| 00:22:47 | Araq | but keep in mind most of us never install nimrod ;-) |
| 00:23:02 | ack006 | because it's always in flux :-) |
| 00:23:02 | Araq | so I don't want to slow down bootstapping |
| 00:23:27 | Araq | yeah and because I despise unix's file hierarchy |
| 00:23:37 | reactormonk | aww |
| 00:23:47 | ack006 | ok, then a new command to koch shouldn't be a problem |
| 00:24:42 | ack006 | why do you dislike that file hierarchy? you like plan9's better? or GNU Hurd's? |
| 00:25:37 | ack006 | maybe consider NixOS, let's you choose your own, basically, and every app is installed into it's own dir anyway |
| 00:25:57 | ack006 | and it's package builder uses a functional language :-)) |
| 00:25:57 | Araq | spreading the application's files over the whole hierarchy and then to use package managers to deal with the mess is a bad design |
| 00:26:28 | Araq | I like gobo linux's better, dunno about NixOS |
| 00:26:38 | Araq | but gobo is dead |
| 00:26:58 | reactormonk | otherwise you'll have to deal with adding include paths n stuff. |
| 00:26:58 | ack006 | maybe you should check it out, you can also use nixpkg on your current distro |
| 00:28:08 | Araq | reactormonk: yeah that needs to be changed; maybe all these PATH things simply need better wildcards like 'apps/*/bin' |
| 00:28:23 | ack006 | (sometimes i think people are staying away from Apple's solution, for fear of being sued off their socks...) |
| 00:28:48 | ack006 | putting everything but system libs in an awesome.app folder is just great... |
| 00:29:08 | ack006 | you can just move it anywhere, drop it anywhere and run it. |
| 00:29:43 | Araq | windows did it better IMHO |
| 00:29:58 | ack006 | program files/? |
| 00:29:58 | ack006 | but what about dll hell? |
| 00:30:43 | ack006 | seems that with shared libs there's no way to have your cake and eat it too. |
| 00:30:43 | Araq | no that you don't have to bundle it to some weird .app container |
| 00:31:08 | Araq | I never experienced the famous windows DLL hell |
| 00:31:23 | ack006 | but windows apps still spray files all over the place |
| 00:31:23 | Araq | linux is much worse in this respect anyway |
| 00:32:03 | Araq | ack006: now it's as bad as everywhere else on windows |
| 00:32:03 | ack006 | some go in "program files", others in "Common", some in "Microsoft Shared", some in windows/system, etc... |
| 00:32:23 | Araq | yeah it used to be better |
| 00:32:43 | Araq | well at least you can do it properly for your own software |
| 00:32:53 | ack006 | true, linux isn't much better, the more apps, the more name clashes, or infinite regress of subdirectories |
| 00:33:18 | Araq | linux is worse because you can't puth the lib*.so next to the exe |
| 00:33:18 | Araq | *put |
| 00:33:43 | ack006 | well, i think you can, by putting '.' in RPATH |
| 00:33:58 | ack006 | but few do. |
| 00:34:08 | Araq | and so you can't :P |
| 00:34:23 | ack006 | yup, sigh... |
| 00:35:58 | ack006 | anyway, i'm going to hit the sack, was very nice talking to you all, sweet dreams about Nimrod! :-) |
| 00:36:28 | Araq | alright, good night |
| 00:36:48 | ack006 | nighty :-) |
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| 14:14:30 | dom96 | https://github.com/Araq/Nimrod/issues/367 |
| 14:52:58 | * | AmatCoder joined #nimrod |
| 14:56:57 | dom96 | hello AmatCoder |
| 14:57:45 | AmatCoder | hi |
| 15:05:01 | Araq | hi AmatCoder |
| 15:05:57 | dom96 | hey Araq, read my RFC and tell me what you think ;) |
| 15:05:59 | AmatCoder | hi Araq |
| 15:06:25 | Araq | dom96: I'm reading |
| 15:13:34 | Araq | dom96: maybe the first version should simply wrap libev or libevent ... |
| 15:14:28 | dom96 | I prefer no dependencies. |
| 15:15:05 | NimBot | Araq/Nimrod 671f3e2 Grzegorz Adam Hankiewicz [+0 ±1 -0]: Fixes the dirtyness of the filterIt template. Refs #351. |
| 15:15:05 | NimBot | Araq/Nimrod 30906d9 Araq [+0 ±1 -0]: Merge pull request #363 from gradha/pr_fixes_filterIt_dirtyness... 3 more lines |
| 15:15:16 | NimBot | Araq/Nimrod 4d322fd Grzegorz Adam Hankiewicz [+0 ±1 -0]: Mentions nextPowerOfTwo proc for table initialization. |
| 15:15:16 | NimBot | Araq/Nimrod 4580bda Araq [+0 ±1 -0]: Merge pull request #365 from gradha/pr_adds_mention_of_nextPowerOfTwo_proc... 3 more lines |
| 15:15:57 | Araq | dom96: me too, but it's a nice fallback for the minor OSes |
| 15:16:13 | Araq | well just go ahead and do it the way you feel like |
| 15:17:00 | dom96 | ok |
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| 15:19:33 | gradha | hmm... github seems to have lost the commit previous to the re-pull, Araq did you see my comments bout immediate regarding the fold templates? |
| 15:20:41 | gradha | basically I don't know why the filterIt template needs to be immediate, but if it has to, maybe https://github.com/Araq/Nimrod/pull/362 should be too? |
| 15:23:36 | Araq | gradha: non immediate templates are constantly changing ;-) |
| 15:23:50 | Araq | so that's why I suggested to play safe and make it immediate |
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| 15:27:25 | Araq | however, non-immediate templates work in this case only because of recent changes |
| 15:28:32 | ack006 | hi all |
| 15:28:41 | gradha | hi |
| 15:29:45 | ack006 | Araq: got your patch ready, i'm just looking for a way to keep the conversation history for github pull requests |
| 15:30:01 | dom96 | hello |
| 15:30:10 | ack006 | normally i ask to rebase after code review but github doesn't like scr..ing with history that much |
| 15:30:28 | ack006 | dom96: hi :-) |
| 15:30:44 | ack006 | i'm going to ask in their channel |
| 15:31:07 | gradha | maybe you are holding it wrong? |
| 15:31:21 | ack006 | ha :-D |
| 15:31:59 | ack006 | whenever i hold it to my crotch it starts to vibrate, should i send it back for a refund? |
| 15:33:13 | gradha | depends on what you want it to do |
| 15:33:23 | ack006 | rep: i think you're at the wrong store, we do have big shiny windows, but on the other side of town they're red. go there please. |
| 15:34:49 | ack006 | apple: legalized hardware brothel |
| 15:35:03 | ack006 | (sorry about that...couldn't keep it in ;-D ) |
| 15:39:32 | ack006 | anyways, i was wondering whether ./build.sh is the right name for bootstrapping nimrod. also i found there is an undocumented 'install' command for koch, that actually runs build.sh |
| 15:40:04 | ack006 | i would think: build new compiler from scratch (i.e. no existing): -> boot.sh |
| 15:40:15 | ack006 | build compiler from bootstrap: ./koch build |
| 15:40:23 | ack006 | install: ./koch install |
| 15:40:45 | ack006 | so boot -> build -> install |
| 15:41:11 | ack006 | and build for updates |
| 15:46:01 | Araq | build.sh does not bootstrap |
| 15:46:27 | Araq | and hell freezes over before I write a "boot.sh" script |
| 15:47:40 | Araq | shell scripting languages are utterly inappropriate for scripting |
| 15:48:14 | ack006 | it's about the naming, not the functionality :-) |
| 15:48:43 | ack006 | i mean: booting is supposed to be the very first thing that happens |
| 15:49:06 | dom96 | yes, but the build.sh script doesn't technically bootstrap. |
| 15:49:20 | gradha | dom96: I'm trying to run numrod forum on my local machine, IIRC you guided Alexsomething to make it work, did you tell the instructions on irc so I can look them up? |
| 15:49:23 | ack006 | old compiler -> new compiler |
| 15:49:31 | ack006 | ok you have a point |
| 15:50:03 | dom96 | ack006: Also we are all very used to writing ./koch boot |
| 15:50:33 | dom96 | gradha: hrm, I can't remember. But I can help you now if you'd like. |
| 15:50:42 | dom96 | gradha: What's the problem? |
| 15:50:52 | gradha | nimrod c -r forum.nim :> forum.nim(637, 17) Error: undeclared identifier: 'request' |
| 15:50:54 | ack006 | ok keep it that way |
| 15:51:39 | dom96 | gradha: ahh, yeah. Jester is broken. |
| 15:51:48 | dom96 | gradha: Araq is fixing it as we speak. |
| 15:52:38 | gradha | the use of nimrod.cfg is not very github friendly, so far I have http://pastebin.com/BK1iKXD0 |
| 15:52:39 | ack006 | Araq: what about the undocumented 'koch install'? that runs build.sh. might be confusing to users who try it. |
| 15:53:32 | gradha | I know Araq doesn't like symlinks, but on unix it's the nicest thing to use, you can .gitignore them and make them point to the local proper directory, anything like that built-in nimrod.cfg? |
| 15:54:02 | gradha | hmmm... jester as a babel package maybe? |
| 15:54:14 | dom96 | it already is a babel package |
| 15:55:36 | gradha | do you remember a nimrod version/commit where jester worked? |
| 15:59:12 | dom96 | no idea, try one a couple of months ago maybe. |
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| 16:36:49 | Araq | ack006: it's undocumented how can it be confusing? :P |
| 16:36:59 | Araq | but alright, just remove it then |
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| 17:00:40 | dom96 | oh cool a pull request for Aporia. |
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| 17:01:40 | ack006 | Araq: people browsing the source, but not looking at build.sh |
| 17:02:08 | ack006 | Araq: what to do with it? leave it the way it is? document it? |
| 17:03:06 | ack006 | anyway, i'm going to push what i have to the pull request, you can have a look at it, it won't bite :) |
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| 17:05:08 | dom96 | AmatCoder: Thanks for the pull request, I actually just fixed that Gdk-critical warning, but i'll merge your changes anyway in a while. |
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| 17:09:07 | AmatCoder | dom96: Thanks, I'm just playing a bit with Aporia... |
| 17:09:56 | AmatCoder | ...to learn nimrod :-) |
| 17:10:13 | dom96 | AmatCoder: Awesome. Feel free to ask any questions that you have. Although I can see that you are already doing very well, even reading my todo :D |
| 17:13:28 | AmatCoder | Thanks. As a few todo items *seems* easy to make... |
| 17:13:56 | dom96 | yeah, some of them are easier than others. |
| 17:14:47 | AmatCoder | ...I will try those for training. |
| 17:15:08 | dom96 | sure. |
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| 17:54:52 | dom96 | AmatCoder: btw, once you fix something you can remove it from the todo. Only use <del> if it's partially fixed. |
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| 18:00:27 | NimBot | nimrod-code/Aporia 32c71b3 Dominik Picheta [+0 ±2 -0]: Recent files are now populated upon tab close. |
| 18:00:27 | NimBot | nimrod-code/Aporia 4909c8b AmatCoder [+0 ±2 -0]: Fix 'Gdk-CRITICAL:gdk_window_invalidate_rect_full' warnigns |
| 18:00:27 | NimBot | nimrod-code/Aporia 60f6954 AmatCoder [+0 ±1 -0]: Fix todo |
| 18:00:27 | NimBot | nimrod-code/Aporia 220cd03 AmatCoder [+0 ±1 -0]: Add a 'Quit' item in menu and toolbar |
| 18:00:27 | NimBot | nimrod-code/Aporia f5d54b6 Dominik Picheta [+0 ±3 -0]: gtk_text_buffer_set_modified is now used to track save state. |
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| 18:03:27 | Araq | ack006: remove the feature from koch.nim |
| 18:03:48 | AmatCoder | Ok, but you do not feel obliged to merge my changes... |
| 18:04:00 | AmatCoder | ...I am doing to my taste and and surely I break something. |
| 18:04:42 | ack006 | Araq: ok, but that will require users to build niminst |
| 18:04:48 | dom96 | AmatCoder: Alright. But your changes are really helpful :) |
| 18:05:21 | ack006 | Araq: so the installation procedure will get longer and longer |
| 18:06:55 | ack006 | why have koch have a feature to create inno setup but not install scripts? you don't like linux, do you? ;-) |
| 18:08:18 | AmatCoder | dom96: Thanks ;-) |
| 18:09:15 | Araq | ack006: I can't follow |
| 18:09:34 | Araq | you said 'koch install' is confusing, so I said remove it |
| 18:10:17 | ack006 | Araq: sorry, i thought you meant my 'instscripts' feature. |
| 18:11:18 | ack006 | shall i remove install feature in the same pull request? |
| 18:18:23 | Araq | sure |
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| 18:20:28 | Araq | gradha: checked Go's package manager? worth copying? |
| 18:20:54 | gradha | didn't see anything of interest |
| 18:21:50 | Araq | well ... how does it work? "import" can get a URL and then? is that the whole package management? |
| 18:23:03 | gradha | I saw people typing the equivalent of "babel install packagename", there I lost interest |
| 18:24:25 | Araq | ok |
| 18:34:12 | * | dom96 needs to break Aporia's config |
| 18:34:20 | dom96 | So backup your config before updating next time just in case |
| 18:35:05 | dom96 | I'll make it backwards compatible, but something may go wrong :P |
| 18:41:27 | gradha | nimbuild started to act weird today too, just when it was doing nothing, this time sharing 50% of cpu between itself and 50% with the kernel |
| 18:42:11 | dom96 | :\ |
| 18:42:28 | gradha | it wasn't timing out either, the connection seemed good |
| 18:43:39 | gradha | I guess I have to learn about dtrace to figure out what's happening |
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| 19:28:48 | reactormonk | dom96, would you mind drawing a dot for #367? |
| 19:29:18 | dom96 | A dot? |
| 19:29:32 | reactormonk | graphivz dot |
| 19:30:05 | dom96 | I don't have any experience with that. |
| 19:31:10 | reactormonk | it's dead easy |
| 19:31:32 | reactormonk | dom96, https://github.com/Tass/tshrdlu/blob/master/graph.dot |
| 19:32:03 | dom96 | hrm, well what do you want me to visualise exactly? |
| 19:32:17 | reactormonk | run with dot graph.dot -Tpng > plotted.png |
| 19:32:56 | reactormonk | dom96, the dependency graph |
| 19:33:39 | dom96 | hrm, sure. I'll try it a bit later. |
| 19:36:12 | reactormonk | dom96, Everyone who reads that text has to rebuild the graph as you imagined it. Errors may happen. |
| 19:36:25 | dom96 | i see |
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| 20:41:31 | dom96 | 3 people left at once, not good :\ |
| 21:03:52 | gour | i'm reading about html5/css3/sass...which i'll need for my web sites, but wonder how could nimrod's JS backend could help one writing desktop-like app |
| 21:04:40 | dom96 | well you wouldn't need to write JS, but Nimrod. |
| 21:04:57 | gour | what about 'widgets'? |
| 21:05:09 | dom96 | you will need to wrap them. |
| 21:05:18 | gour | hmm |
| 21:05:42 | gour | does it really help much? |
| 21:06:12 | gour | instead of using 'dedicated' framework with its own widget set |
| 21:09:40 | reactormonk | gour, so you want a 'portable' app based on html and JS? |
| 21:10:54 | * | Zerathul quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 21:11:47 | gour | reactormonk: well, just thinking loud if html/js could possible replace real desktop gui toolkit considering that there is only gtk available for Nimrod |
| 21:12:21 | gour | otoh, the nature of the app is not really browser-based, but it's more 'classical' desktop one |
| 21:12:55 | gour | however, almost everyone is going crazy with web as multi-platform toolkit :-/ |
| 21:20:17 | NimBot | nimrod-code/Aporia 3a9663e Dominik Picheta [+0 ±6 -0]: Better separation of settings. |
| 21:38:30 | Araq | gour: nimrod also has bindings to IUP and claro :P |
| 21:38:36 | Araq | that may not help you |
| 21:39:01 | Araq | but that is not the same as "there is only gtk available for Nimrod" |
| 21:40:15 | gour | Araq: IUP is missing i18n/utf-8 support...claro is not maintained, but i stand corrected...true, it's not fair to say "only gtk..." |
| 21:49:32 | Araq | last time I checked somebody had a problem with claro's build script and the maintainer fixed it for you |
| 21:53:47 | gour | iirc, examples do not build |
| 21:55:02 | Araq | they work for me |
| 21:55:58 | NimBot | Araq/Nimrod 30cc9ef Alain Kalker [+0 ±3 -0]: Separate out install/uninstall script generation... 7 more lines |
| 21:55:58 | NimBot | Araq/Nimrod 164c9ad Araq [+0 ±3 -0]: Merge pull request #361 from ackalker/fix-bootstrap... 3 more lines |
| 21:56:46 | gour | i might try 'em tomorrow.. |
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| 23:30:22 | NimBot | Araq/Nimrod f8061af Araq [+0 ±2 -0]: fixes #332 |
| 23:30:22 | NimBot | Araq/Nimrod f4256f5 Araq [+0 ±3 -0]: fixes #304 |
| 23:30:22 | NimBot | Araq/Nimrod dd0d274 Araq [+0 ±3 -0]: Merge branch 'master' of github.com:Araq/Nimrod |
| 23:30:22 | NimBot | Araq/Nimrod aff3bdb Araq [+0 ±1 -0]: added broken 'range' types to todo |