<< 17-10-2017 >>

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01:26:50	FromGitter	<zacharycarter> (https://files.gitter.im/nim-lang/Nim/z5Fq/Render2.png)
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01:50:20	SusWombat	Anyone here using nim in vscode and has a idea why i dont get autocompletion for nimble modules?
01:58:48	SusWombat	oh ... nvm i should try installing nimsuggest first
01:59:56	SusWombat	the aur package (arch) for nimsuggest says "This is now part of Nim itself."
02:00:00	SusWombat	is this true?
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02:12:43	FromGitter	<zacharycarter> SusWombat: I think you have to install it with koch tools
02:12:47	FromGitter	<zacharycarter> but I could be wrong
02:13:01	SusWombat	yeah
02:13:19	SusWombat	im currently trying to decide if i should just compile nim on my own or use choosenim
02:14:05	FromGitter	<zacharycarter> I do the former on my osx machine
02:14:13	FromGitter	<zacharycarter> I've used choosenim on other operating systems
02:18:02	SusWombat	im going to try choosenim
02:19:37	shashlick	I was building myself on Windows until recently when I moved to choosenim. It can pull from head so might as will leverage it instead of diy
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02:44:29	rauss	I love the tensor lib blog post. Great read
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02:45:11	FromGitter	<zacharycarter> @mratsim wrote it
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02:53:41	FromGitter	<zacharycarter> I think I should start a stream - for 3d modeling and programming Nim
02:53:56	FromGitter	<zacharycarter> dom96 gave me the idea but I think it's a good one
02:54:06	rauss	I've often considered starting to stream my programming and gamedev stuff
02:54:27	rauss	it would almost certainly motivate me to do it more frequently, if it worked out
02:55:23	rauss	The only reason I haven't is laziness. We should each go for it
02:56:29	FromGitter	<zacharycarter> yeah it might get me more focused to work on specific things and get things done faster
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03:05:07	SusWombat	Im trying to learn opengl a bit. As there are no glew buinings what would i use instead?
03:05:18	SusWombat	@zacharycarter maybe?
03:09:39	FromGitter	<zacharycarter> SusWombat you don't need glew if you use the Nim opengl bindings
03:09:48	SusWombat	oh ok
03:09:51	FromGitter	<zacharycarter> the extensions are available via the function loadExtensions
03:10:57	SusWombat	thanks
03:11:32	SusWombat	Im probably going to give anyways. But i atleast want to try :D
03:12:07	FromGitter	<zacharycarter> I recommend https://learnopengl.com/
03:12:26	SusWombat	Hm ok
03:12:39	SusWombat	im currently started open.gl as it offers sdl as a option
03:13:20	SusWombat	but i guess for learning it wouldnt matter if id use glfw instead of sdl right?
03:34:08	FromGitter	<zacharycarter> nope
03:34:30	FromGitter	<zacharycarter> whether you choose sdl2 or glfw3 should have little impact suswombat
03:34:38	SusWombat	ok
03:34:49	FromGitter	<zacharycarter> I recommend sdl2
03:34:59	FromGitter	<zacharycarter> esp if you want to get into things like webassembly eventually
03:35:06	SusWombat	yeah but the tutorial uses glfw so wouldnt it be easier to just use that?
03:35:25	SusWombat	if i would actually use opengl for something real id use sdl anyway
03:36:08	SusWombat	Only thing that worrys me a bit that i have to learn 3d stuff when learning opengl. And im not intrested in 3d at aöö
03:36:09	SusWombat	all*
03:43:35	FromGitter	<zacharycarter> you don't HAVE to learn 3d
03:43:44	FromGitter	<zacharycarter> but you need to know linear algebra
03:44:18	FromGitter	<zacharycarter> I'd go through learning opengl - they even have an example for building a 2d game
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03:44:44	FromGitter	<zacharycarter> glfw3 / sdl2 are just the windowing library - but sure you could start with glfw3 if you're not familiar with either library
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04:03:03	UxerUospr	What's the fastest way to check if a string is in a sequence?
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04:30:04	FromGitter	<TheSuspiciousWombat> @zacharycarter Do you have any idea if there is a site which translates glfw call to sdl? like not automaticly but some kind of documentation/ressource
05:19:57	FromGitter	<x86128> Hello! Newbie question. ⏎ Trying to compile this simple code: ⏎ https://gist.github.com/x86128/645835a3f876625ce022fb5283428813 ⏎ ⏎ and got compile time error: ... [https://gitter.im/nim-lang/Nim?at=59e592fde44c43700a41530a]
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05:41:33	FromGitter	<Bennyelg> ```code paste, see link``` [https://gitter.im/nim-lang/Nim?at=59e5980c210ac26920f632d0]
05:41:43	FromGitter	<Bennyelg> you should await you response since it's Async.
05:41:52	FromGitter	<Bennyelg> ```code paste, see link``` [https://gitter.im/nim-lang/Nim?at=59e5981fbbbf9f1a386e1c93]
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05:47:23	FromGitter	<x86128> waitFor definition:
05:47:26	FromGitter	<x86128> proc waitFor*T (fut: Future[T]): T = ⏎ ## *Blocks* the current thread until the specified future completes. ⏎ while not fut.finished: ⏎ ⏎ ```poll()``` ... [https://gitter.im/nim-lang/Nim?at=59e5996df7299e8f53f820c2]
05:48:14	FromGitter	<x86128> ```code paste, see link``` [https://gitter.im/nim-lang/Nim?at=59e5999ef7299e8f53f82153]
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05:49:06	FromGitter	<x86128> So actually await perform resolve of Future?
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05:56:49	FromGitter	<Bennyelg> Yea
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06:05:20	kobi7	hi guys, I was wondering if there is a way to define postfix procs - the arguments are to the left of the proc name
06:05:39	kobi7	I'm just a beginner but I think I saw infix syntax for templates
06:06:36	kobi7	or perhaps something like (a:2, b:"hello").args.callme
06:06:47	kobi7	convert a tuple to proc arguments
06:08:30	kobi7	no big deal - just wondering if I missed it, since nim is so flexible.
06:09:51	Araq	kobi7: there are no postfix procs
06:10:05	kobi7	ok, np
06:10:16	Araq	so that we can parse a + + b unambiguously without symbol table
06:10:31	Araq	(that is parsed as (a + (+b)
06:10:34	Araq	)
06:14:15	kobi7	Are there data structures other than the ones in the stdlib/Collections?
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06:14:25	kobi7	specifically a dependency graph
06:15:06	kobi7	hi PMunch
06:16:27	kobi7	That's weird: all the nimble package definitions are in one json file? not very scalable...
06:17:03	kobi7	(multiple pull requests)
06:18:01	PMunch	Hi kobi7
06:18:45	Araq	kobi7: yeah I argued for a database back in the days
06:19:02	Araq	eventually we'll need to patch it
06:19:16	Araq	but for now it suffices
06:20:12	Araq	oh also nimble supports multiple packages.json files
06:20:21	kobi7	multiple files would be fine. I just saw that now so commented.
06:21:11	kobi7	db actually has benefits that it's easier/faster to download
06:21:21	kobi7	brb
06:22:36	PMunch	But that would mean it would have to be stored and managed somewhere else. Git and GitHub are good tools for managing a shared resource.
06:22:47	Araq	DBs can also be queried and don't have ascii alignment / whitespace problems, missing commas, missing }'s
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06:23:27	Araq	and are not under the "git diff" oppression
06:24:31	kobi7	you can have both world: build a binary out of the github resources.
06:24:48	kobi7	nimble can then work with the binary to do most things.
06:24:57	Araq	that doesn't solve much
06:25:10	Araq	people would still need to make PRs against the packages.json
06:25:28	kobi7	to tell the truth I prefer simple solutions. multiple files is just fine imo.
06:26:43	PMunch	We could have just a folder of .nimble files in a folder on GitHub then a server somewhere that hooks into the repo and builds a DB from that automatically
06:27:22	PMunch	Best of both worlds, you get Git/GitHub as an easy and familiar front-end, and a DB for ease of access for tools.
06:27:35	kobi7	from optimization perspective, every "release" the information is already known, that's why a database, or a binary representing dependency graph and other relevant structures is fastest for nimble to have at its disposal. That would mean generating binaries every "release" - but the dynamic way is fine in my opinion. it's not that there are millions of packages...
06:27:57	Araq	a folder of .nimble files is already a much better database than json
06:28:13	Araq	nice idea, never really occured to me
06:28:28	PMunch	There might be some speed issues with lots of small files though..
06:29:06	PMunch	But I guess nimble itself could download and build them into one db for local usage
06:29:10	Araq	yup
06:29:14	kobi7	someone once said premature optimization is the root of all evil
06:29:21	PMunch	That would actually make a lot more sense :P
06:29:59	kobi7	yes, that is a good idea. adding to an existing db when new packages change.
06:30:17	kobi7	git is already very good at giving us only the deltas
06:30:47	kobi7	but you would have to hold all the files locally.
06:31:52	PMunch	I don't think the overhead of that would be too bad
06:32:34	kobi7	can github hold a zip file?
06:32:51	kobi7	nevermind, that has no benefit
06:32:56	FromGitter	<gokr> I built a similar solution years ago actually.For Squeak.
06:32:57	PMunch	It can, but then you loose all of gits capabilities
06:33:29	PMunch	You could zip up all the files locally and simply unpack them before a pull if it's a problem
06:33:36	FromGitter	<gokr> Clients downloaded a complete snapshot, sing fkle.
06:33:59	FromGitter	<gokr> A serialized model.
06:34:05	PMunch	https://stackoverflow.com/questions/8522619/how-do-i-get-the-list-of-files-about-to-be-updated-by-git-pull-without-knowing
06:34:13	PMunch	You could of course also do that
06:34:50	PMunch	So download a full copy once, then run that command to look for new/changed files and selectively pull only those, storing them in a db and then deleting them
06:35:07	PMunch	Oh wait, git would see them as deleted though..
06:35:11	FromGitter	<gokr> The idea with the model was of course to open up tool crafting.
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06:36:08	PMunch	Or would it if they are not checked in?
06:36:10	kobi7	ok ok this is already over engineering for mostly a non-issue
06:36:30	Araq	quick, what is -1.#IND ?
06:36:30	PMunch	gokr, Squeak
06:36:32	PMunch	?
06:36:42	FromGitter	<gokr> Www.squeanr
06:36:44	PMunch	What is #IND?
06:36:50	FromGitter	<gokr> Www.squeak.org
06:37:01	Araq	PMunch, it's Windows lingo for NaN (omg)
06:37:11	kobi7	hehe
06:37:22	kobi7	Indecisive :-)
06:37:45	PMunch	Oh cool, gokr
06:38:14	PMunch	Ah right, been a while since I've done anything with Windows :P
06:39:08	kobi7	Araq: say I wanted to port some code over to nim. Say also that I want to be adventurous and not do it manually. But still not tackle the whole thing. What are some good ideas for that?
06:40:04	FromGitter	<Varriount> kobi7: You could try using C2Nim
06:40:05	kobi7	Is there something like a frontend feature in nim? someLang -> NimAST -> Nim text ?
06:40:40	kobi7	thanks Varriount
06:40:41	FromGitter	<Varriount> Depending on how complex the code in question is, it can transform logic and such
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06:41:08	kobi7	it wasn't written in c though.
06:41:32	kobi7	I think I will use your suggestion for missing functionality like data structures etc.
06:41:43	Araq	patch c2nim to do it, every curly braced language is close enough :P
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06:42:47	kobi7	i'll take a look at the sources.
06:43:18	Araq	what language are we talking about?
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06:44:20	FromGitter	<Varriount> Araq: Regarding Nimble files, what Package Control (sublime's plugin manager) does is group the files in folders, organized alphabetically.
06:44:50	gokr	PMunch: I was heavily involved in Squeak, even led the project for some time. So me being here in Nim is... kinda weird. Smalltalk and Nim are quite far from each other.
06:46:02	Araq	varriount: I have no idea how to cut vids with HandBrake
06:46:16	Araq	isn't there a tool for idiots like me?
06:46:30	PMunch	Well gokr, they do share some ideas
06:46:41	PMunch	In a roundabout way
06:46:43	Araq	show the timeline, let me move sections, cut and paste
06:46:48	gokr	The idea with SqueakMap (the package manager I built, still operational btw) was that since Squeakers all run the same "IDE", and it's also fully live and programmable - the meta model should also cover packages, but also developers etc.
06:46:55	Araq	what's so hard about that, UI-wise?
06:46:58	PMunch	Araq, use kdenlive :)
06:47:04	PMunch	It's pretty easy to use
06:47:15	FromGitter	<Varriount> Araq: Hm, handbrake does encoding only.
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06:47:33	gokr	So you could trivially in a Smalltalk textspace type things like "SqueakMap allPackages select: [:each | each canBeUpdated]" - or things like that.
06:47:41	FromGitter	<Varriount> Windows Movie Maker?
06:47:44	PMunch	Araq, or you could try Windows Movie maker :P
06:47:53	PMunch	Haha, nice one Varriount
06:48:12	FromGitter	<Varriount> I mean, if you want simple...
06:48:14	gokr	Araq: I use OpenShot, very nice to do things like that.
06:48:22	PMunch	Has it gotten any better in post XP versions of Windows?
06:48:24	gokr	Not sure if it runs on your platform though.
06:49:23	gokr	Araq: http://www.openshot.org/download/
06:49:25	PMunch	Yeah OpenShot seems like a good alternative
06:49:44	gokr	It's very nice, I have "produced" several videos of my daughter's figure skating competitions with that.
06:50:08	gokr	And it has nice trivial profiles for encoding in the end for youtube etc
06:50:54	FromGitter	<Varriount> gokr: Neat! I'd like to go skating (or for preference, skiing) at some point
06:51:26	PMunch	I've used lots of different editing software, and kdenlive is the one which hits closest to the "big boys" like Adobe Premiere and Sony Vegas
06:51:26	FromGitter	<Varriount> Not much chance to do it here on the east coast, despite all the hills.
06:51:40	PMunch	Both of which are great tools by the way, but boy do they cost a pretty penny
06:54:38	gokr	Varriount: We go up north each year to ski, for about 1 week. It's a swedish thing - the "sport week" - all kids are on school leave. Me and Maya snowboard though.
06:55:09	PMunch	Araq, is there a way to disable an event handler in Karax?
06:55:17	Araq	I don't get OpenShot lol
06:55:25	gokr	Araq: ?
06:55:27	Araq	PMunch: don't add it after a refresh?
06:55:30	PMunch	gokr, nice snowboarding!
06:55:39	Araq	why are there 5 tracks?
06:55:48	Araq	why doesn't it run my video?
06:56:02	gokr	Araq: It's a two step thing - you need to to first "import" - then drag down onto the timeline.
06:56:05	PMunch	Araq, oh right Karax is completely redrawn after each thing
06:56:05	Araq	it says "preview" it's all black
06:56:07	gokr	IIRC
06:56:23	gokr	Drag your movie down onto the timeline.
06:56:35	PMunch	Araq, missing a codec or something perhaps?
06:57:04	gokr	I have version 1.4.3 though, not sure what you have.
06:57:21	Araq	it's a flv file
06:57:26	Araq	could that cause problems?
06:57:37	gokr	No
06:57:41	gokr	Don't think so.
06:57:48	gokr	So you have it in the "Project Files" list?
06:57:53	PMunch	Can flv files cause anything but problems?
06:58:01	gokr	What about dragging it down onto the "Track 1" or "Track 2"?
06:58:03	Araq	gokr: yes
06:58:22	Araq	I did drag it
06:58:29	Araq	preview is black
06:58:37	gokr	So you got an "orange plate" on the track?
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06:58:52	gokr	Representing the clip I mean.
06:58:57	Araq	no a black rectangle
06:59:07	Araq	that said, my firewall prevented some things
06:59:14	Araq	let me try disabled
06:59:15	gokr	hmm.
06:59:41	PMunch	Your firewall prevented video playback? What kind of firewall do you have?
07:00:34	gokr	Araq: Just tried with an flv too - works just fine.
07:00:44	gokr	But I get an orange "plate" on the Track, not a black one.
07:01:22	gokr	Araq: And if you right click on it, pick "Properties", you should see a bunch of meta data of the clip.
07:02:00	gokr	Oh, wow. I use an ancient version :)
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07:07:12	Yardanico	hi everyone!
07:07:34	Yardanico	dom96, it seems you've already reported an issue with concepts in your book - https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/issues/6108
07:11:05	PMunch	Hmm, is there a way to forcibly override something?
07:11:40	PMunch	ie. module 1 imports a proc helloWorld, I want to allow that as default but hove proc helloWorld from module 2 override it if it's loaded
07:12:26	Yardanico	well simplest solution - you can do that with closures :)
07:12:40	PMunch	Hmm, how so?
07:13:06	Yardanico	PMunch, in the first module you have "var myproc* = proc ...", and in the second file you do "myproc = proc ..."
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07:13:14	Yardanico	but maybe this is a little bit hacky
07:13:33	PMunch	Aah, that would actually work well enough
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07:15:25	PMunch	Oh wait, this is a macro..
07:15:35	Araq	ok kdenlive works
07:15:46	Araq	nice
07:15:52	PMunch	Nice Araq
07:16:01	Yardanico	Araq, yay, will you upload your recording today?
07:16:04	PMunch	Are you editing your previous stream?
07:16:16	Yardanico	yeah, he said he'll remove swear words & bad jokes :P
07:16:26	PMunch	Boooo
07:16:37	PMunch	Much more fun with them :P
07:17:20	PMunch	But I guess it gives me an incentive to look at the stream :P
07:21:31	FromGitter	<mratsim> So people start to notice my “Why rust fails hard at scientific computing” post: https://andre-ratsimbazafy.com/why-rust-fails-hard-at-scientific-computing/#comments
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07:22:49	Yardanico	mratsim: btw, about arrays - you can any size array with third-party module :P
07:22:54	Yardanico	(in rust)
07:23:22	FromGitter	<mratsim> 2 years ago I couldn't
07:23:34	Yardanico	lol, https://andre-ratsimbazafy.com/why-rust-fails-hard-at-scientific-computing/#comment-3570217857
07:23:43	Yardanico	his second point is not true because nim has arrays
07:23:50	Yardanico	and they can be of (almost) any size :P
07:23:59	Yardanico	and they don't need GC afaik
07:24:22	Araq	ok, let's cut here within the sentence. there is no better solution. nobody will notice
07:24:29	FromGitter	<Bennyelg> hey anyone here worked with pandads before?
07:24:32	FromGitter	<Bennyelg> pandas*
07:25:31	FromGitter	<mratsim> yes
07:25:33	FromGitter	<mratsim> a lot
07:25:49	FromGitter	<mratsim> I breath pandas :P
07:25:50	FromGitter	<Bennyelg> My friend have an issue he has some dataframe with some field which is very long field
07:26:08	FromGitter	<Bennyelg> he gets it with yada yada and after 50 chars it gets ... dots
07:26:11	FromGitter	<Bennyelg> (3 dots)
07:26:28	FromGitter	<mratsim> it’s just display then no?
07:26:45	FromGitter	<mratsim> maybe PM me
07:27:00	FromGitter	<Bennyelg> how do I pm
07:27:44	Yardanico	click on mratsim's avatar
07:27:51	Yardanico	and then click "chat privately"
07:30:40	FromGitter	<mratsim> done, problem solved :)
07:30:57	FromGitter	<mratsim> (it was a display option)
07:32:47	SusWombat	Anyone a idea why this code fails when i have gl.loadExtensions() in it? https://hastebin.com/otuzurexap.js
07:33:18	SusWombat	i get https://gist.github.com/TheSuspiciousWombat/cc71c52335e61417d027587c8b9c9054
07:33:36	PMunch	Can I use "when defined" to check if a macro exists?
07:33:51	Yardanico	you can use when compiles probably
07:34:05	Yardanico	"when compiles(mymacro(stuff)):"
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07:35:16	FromGitter	<mratsim> wow this thread is depressing: https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/76uk7a/you_fired_your_top_talent_i_hope_youre_happy/
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07:37:17	PMunch	Thanks Yardanico, works like a charm :)
07:38:45	PMunch	Fun-fact, the font used in the "Medium" title is about 2000 euros for a high-traffic site
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07:45:22	miran	Bennyelg - your friend uses Jupyter Notebook? it is just a display
07:51:09	SusWombat	ok got my problem resolved
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08:06:44	Araq	PMunch, when declared(mymacro)
08:07:28	Yardanico	oh
08:09:56	PMunch	Ah, declared
08:10:05	PMunch	I knew there was some way to do it
08:10:14	PMunch	But I found out there was a better awy
08:10:16	PMunch	way*
08:11:01	Yardanico	btw, this is list comprehension from nimboost library (I "improved" it a bit) - https://gist.github.com/Yardanico/c37bf2236ce5665aba6fea3af6c82802
08:11:21	Yardanico	yeah, code generated by macro is a bit horrible
08:11:32	Yardanico	because you don't need to specify types :P
08:16:51	Araq	ok I still fail at Kdenlive
08:17:17	Araq	I want to *type* the start and the end of the video, before that and after that should be removed
08:17:46	Araq	it's too long for this pixel based cut nonsense
08:20:32	euantor	I don't know if there is a way to do that in kdenlive, though it's been a while since I had to use it
08:20:55	euantor	I believe you can jus use the mouse or the arrow keys to move the cursor to a start/top position and set a slice marker
08:21:33	jjido	Doesn't it "zoom in" on your drag position?
08:22:52	PMunch	You can zoom
08:23:09	PMunch	But I think there is a way to split at a specific point
08:23:45	PMunch	Of course you can also use the frame by frame stepping buttons to position yourself and then cut
08:26:08	gokr	Hum, 95 comments: https://www.reddit.com/r/rust/comments/76olo3/why_rust_fails_hard_at_scientific_computing/
08:27:19	Yardanico	and 60 upvotes :)
08:27:53	Yardanico	so they generally agree
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08:30:53	Yardanico	"Personally i don't know of a language that has statically typed stack allocated arbitrary sized arrays. " does nim have that?
08:33:06	euantor	If by arbitrary sized arrays they mean that they resize dynamically, no. Arrays are fixed size
08:35:00	Araq	yardanico: no but C99 and Ada come to mind
08:35:06	Araq	and Fortran too iirc
08:35:37	Araq	it's not that useful though, you cannot move things around when it's on the stack
08:35:53	Araq	so most languages use the heap for that.
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08:36:09	Araq	that doesn't mean it has to be GC'ed though, C++ destructors work fine for this too
08:36:37	Araq	and Nim is getting better destructors ... :P
08:42:25	gokr	Araq: IIRC you said something about a new story on concurrency (or such) last week. In the parasail context. Anything to spill?
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08:45:33	PMunch	When you get a redefinition error it should really tell you were the last definition was
08:46:53	PMunch	Right now I'm getting a redefinition error for procedure that has a type named by a symbol from "genSym(nskType)" which should mean that it should never collide..
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09:00:21	Calinou	hi :) I compiled latest Nim HEAD, and I'm getting this when compiling a godot-nim project:
09:00:45	Calinou	https://paste.ee/p/zIk2S
09:00:45	PMunch	Please use pastebin if it's a long output
09:00:51	Calinou	it's only 2 lines, but hastebin was failing me
09:00:57	PMunch	Okay good :P
09:01:16	PMunch	I was afraid you were about to paste in a whole compile-output
09:01:37	PMunch	Hmm, that site is blocked by wy firewall..
09:01:42	Calinou	compiling Nim itself works, same for a very simple program
09:01:48	Yardanico	C:\Users\hugol\.nimble\pkgs\compiler-#head\compiler\rodutils.nim(25, 14) Error: type mismatch: got (array[0..80, char], string, BiggestFloat)
09:01:53	Calinou	yeah, that
09:02:14	Yardanico	Calinou, did you compile against nim master or devel?
09:02:15	Calinou	this is godot-nim by the way, https://github.com/pragmagic/godot-nim
09:02:19	Calinou	I'm on the master branch
09:02:19	Yardanico	yeah, I know it :)
09:02:27	Yardanico	try to compile nim from devel
09:02:28	Yardanico	https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/commit/3308d265816b342a842e7cabef492a54ea722e74
09:02:34	Calinou	I'll try that
09:04:13	Yardanico	the thing is
09:04:28	Yardanico	if you've compiled nim from master branch, you should install "compiler" package from master branch too
09:04:32	Yardanico	not from "head"
09:04:44	Yardanico	because otherwise they would have different versions
09:05:01	Araq	gokr: experiments are on-going, I don't want release something that is completely unfinished
09:05:21	gokr	And the oneliner hint on what it is? :)
09:05:38	gokr	I gather you are working on removing GC need for string, seq and... something.
09:05:51	gokr	But ... not sure how that relates to concurrency.
09:06:26	gokr	But oh, ok, yeah, I guess non-GC thingies are more easily shared of course.
09:09:58	Calinou	Yardanico: how do I install that package from master branch? using Nimble, or…?
09:10:37	Yardanico	Calinou, probably "nimble install compiler@#master"
09:11:00	Calinou	alright
09:11:07	Calinou	doesn't that just install the compiler using Nimble? rather than a manual Git clone
09:11:24	Yardanico	Calinou, yes, it just installs the compiler using Nimble
09:11:41	Calinou	I already have it installed, though
09:11:47	Yardanico	well you have head version
09:11:57	Calinou	yeah, but I switched to the devel branch
09:13:04	Calinou	https://hastebin.com/elusazegoj.txt
09:13:05	Calinou	:(
09:13:12	Calinou	I get this with the #master compiler I just installed
09:13:22	Calinou	but yeah, that's not the devel branch
09:18:28	PMunch	Hmm, for genui I currently have three kinds of widgets "show" to show information, "edit" to have an editable field, and "call" to call procedures (typically a button). I now also want to add support for a selections, but I'm unsure if they should be a separate type or a special case of edit. They would work pretty much like an edit in that you change some variable, but only a set of options would be allowed.
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09:33:13	Calinou	endragor: oh, you're around, you might know the solution to this problem :P
09:33:15	Calinou	I thought you weren't on IRC
09:36:07	Yardanico	Calinou, you can also find him in godot discord
09:42:02	Araq	PMunch, can't export my video :-) 'melt.exe' not found
09:42:15	Araq	and then I copied that into shared/ and every DLL it might need
09:42:26	Araq	and it reports "success in 0s"
09:42:34	Araq	having done nothing whatsoever
09:42:49	Calinou	Yardanico: oh, yeah
09:42:51	Yardanico	Araq, maybe you need to choose different type of export?
09:43:26	Yardanico	but I worked with kdenlive only on linux :P
09:43:42	Yardanico	so package manager installs everything beforehand
09:44:44	Araq	Yardanico, no export type works
09:44:51	Yardanico	oh
09:45:59	Araq	Yardanico, cannot use it on Linux my Linux package manager decided somebody has its lock and I cannot be bothered to fix it
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09:46:47	Araq	since everything else hardly works anyway
09:48:15	Yardanico	Araq, found on reddit:
09:48:15	Yardanico	They misplaced the melt.exe. It is in the main directory when it should be in the share directory. Cut and past melt.exe into the share folder. That should fix that problem.
09:48:25	Yardanico	ten days ago
09:49:08	Araq	did that, changed things from "cannot find melt.exe" to "lying"
10:05:12	Araq	Yardanico, where are the poll results again?
10:05:24	Yardanico	Araq, http://www.strawpoll.me/14163114/r
10:06:49	FromGitter	<edubart> @Araq suggested an use case for the new destructors https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/issues/6524
10:08:29	Araq	"reading and writing to stack memory is much faster" ... have CPU caches stopped working for heap memory? ;-)
10:10:44	FromGitter	<edubart> the first read/write can be slow, but the major slowdown is allocation/deallocation
10:11:06	Araq	that's not how the hardware works, the cache is cacheline based and memory prefetchers do not look for specific address regions either. it's all about keeping things contiguous in memory
10:12:48	Araq	you're right about the allocations
10:13:55	FromGitter	<edubart> in arraymancer we have gained speed ups by allocating on the stack, but we had to work with fixed lengths arrays atm
10:14:37	FromGitter	<edubart> I want to change later to variable length arrays in some hot areas to makes things more flexible
10:14:41	endragor	Calinou: try to remove all compiler packages from your nimble repo and build again. I guess this is the problem: https://github.com/nim-lang/nimble/issues/318 . You had older compiler#head trying to be compiled with newer Nim.
10:16:56	Calinou	endragor: done that, installed compiler#head, now I get https://hastebin.com/ibanupunuw.txt
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10:17:06	Calinou	(I did "nimble install godot")
10:25:37	dom96	yay, got my SNES classic edition finally
10:25:44	endragor	ugh... try either using released Nim version without manually installing `compiler` package (just `nimble install godot`) or changeset eeb2661a28069c94b44cf965817709b0cd9886d7 (does work for me). There are several breaking changes in devel and I'll need to adjust godot-nim for them.
10:25:49	endragor	Calinou
10:27:35	Yardanico	dom96, nice!
10:28:01	dom96	Sadly my stock notifier didn't help me at all
10:28:35	FromGitter	<edubart> @Araq if the array is on the stack together with all the local variables on the stack too, means that everything is on the same contiguously memory region, potentially in the same cacheline, so reading/writing to stack memory could be faster than accessing and writing to distinct regions (if the array was on the heap)
10:29:48	dom96	Araq: At least enable archiving on twitch if it's going to take you this long to upload the videos
10:29:58	Yardanico	yeah
10:30:06	Yardanico	you can export them directly from twitch btw
10:30:09	Yardanico	to youtube
10:30:15	dom96	oh really? nice
10:30:26	dom96	I made this a showstopper https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/issues/6108
10:30:43	Yardanico	it's fixed in zahary branch
10:30:53	dom96	still deserves a showstopper label
10:30:59	dom96	it needs to be fixed in the next release
10:31:07	Yardanico	it probably would
10:31:52	Yardanico	dom96, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yBivc8DOus a video tutorial for exporting :)
10:34:23	Yardanico	I'm excited because @zahary also fixed concepts matching for arrays :)
10:34:43	Yardanico	so we can have proper iterable concept working for all iterable-like types
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10:47:50	Araq	edubart: that only applies when the arrays are small
10:49:01	*	kafke quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
10:49:55	FromGitter	<edubart> and that's my use case, usually use arrays of the size 4 or 2 ints, but want to be able to use with larger sizes
10:50:27	Araq	oh sorry
10:51:04	Yardanico	Araq, wait, is https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/commit/ce2c795379c6b2101a28c5dc1f66dfda35858cbe a proper fix? I thought it should be fixed somewhere in the compiler, and not in the cgen/jsgen
10:51:16	Yardanico	because js would still have the same issue (however it can be fixed easily too)
10:51:58	Araq	zahary knows what he's doing
10:52:22	Araq	you're right that JS could be affected too
10:52:33	Yardanico	Araq, it's easy to fix too - jsgen.nim line 1078
10:52:44	Yardanico	add tyUserTypeClasses here and done
10:53:36	Calinou	C:\Users\hugol\.nimble\pkgs\godot-0.6.1\godotapigen.nim(5, 17) Error: cannot open 'compiler\ast'
10:53:49	Calinou	I get this after deleting compiler#head from .nimble/pkgs, then compiling Nim at the commit endragor mentioned
10:54:02	Calinou	I'm a bit confused with the relationship between Nimble and the compiler, sorry
10:54:29	Yardanico	Calinou, well you don't neccesarily need to have compiler source with nim
10:54:40	Yardanico	so you need to install it through nimble to allow packages to import compiler modules
10:54:57	endragor	Calinou: do `nimble install godot -d`
10:55:25	Calinou	what does -d do?
10:55:50	Calinou	looks like it works! thanks
10:58:24	endragor	installs dependencies of the package - you had to reinstall them after deleting `compiler` package, because it's a dependency
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11:16:08	Calinou	endragor: might be more of a Nim question, but how do I use a setter that's in a node? such as `text` in label
11:16:22	endragor	label.text = "hello"
11:17:21	Yardanico	Calinou, any proc with the name like `somename=` is a setter
11:17:31	Calinou	what about getters? just "label.text"?
11:17:36	Yardanico	yes
11:17:59	Yardanico	if label.text is a proc, you can also call it like label.text()
11:18:02	Yardanico	but label.text would work too
11:19:30	Calinou	also, how does type conversion work? I have a proc which returns an int, and neither `myProc(40).string` or `string(myProc(40))` work, for concatenating with other strings
11:20:48	Yardanico	Calinou, $myvar
11:21:12	Yardanico	it's conventional to name a procedure which converts your type to string as $
11:21:20	Yardanico	also it allows "echo" to work on your type
11:21:20	dom96	Nimble still depends on the compiler at runtime
11:21:33	dom96	or sorry, no, it depends on the stdlib
11:21:34	dom96	never mind
11:23:35	Calinou	with this code, I'm getting an error on lines 14/16: https://hastebin.com/adunagopon.nim
11:23:45	Calinou	https://hastebin.com/isawofuzet.txt
11:24:33	dom96	I guess you need to create a Label somehow
11:24:44	dom96	Search for procedures/methods that return a Label
11:25:14	Yardanico	well it's a method
11:25:20	Calinou	that .nim file is attached to a Label node, so I shouldn't need to create any object
11:25:22	Yardanico	an gdobj is a macro which generates godot type
11:25:50	endragor	Calinou: self.text = "Fibonacci(40) result: " & $fibo(40) & "\n"
11:25:52	dom96	oh right, so maybe you need to assign to .text?
11:26:22	endragor	or just `text = "blabla"` should also work I guess
11:26:45	Calinou	this works :) sorry, I'm still a Nim beginner :P
11:26:58	Calinou	"self" isn't highlighted in VS Code, so I was confused
11:26:58	dom96	Calinou: Nice to see you getting into it again :)
11:27:08	endragor	also better make those `proc` and not `method`. you only need `method` for what you override (like `ready`, `process`, etc)
11:27:15	Calinou	(also, I thought Nim didn't feature OOP?)
11:27:27	Calinou	last time I checked, the features comparison page said it only had minimal OOP support
11:27:47	endragor	`gdobj` is a macro, it does stuff behind the scenes
11:28:20	Yardanico	Calinou, it does
11:28:31	Yardanico	method is a nim keyword
11:28:31	Araq	hmmm can we deprecate .this again? :P
11:29:04	Yardanico	Araq, why? :)
11:29:26	dom96	Calinou: What do you consider OOP?
11:29:34	Araq	it's implemented as a func/proc call rewrite rule
11:29:36	dom96	Nim supports inheritance and dynamic dispatch
11:29:50	Araq	and I'd like a different unrelated rewrite rule
11:30:07	Yardanico	well you're free to do everything you want, I don't think this is used very often
11:30:14	Yardanico	but it allows to type less code :D
11:30:19	crem	I'm totally fine with python's explicit 'self' approach, let's deprecate .this!
11:30:19	Yardanico	5 chars less lol
11:30:33	Yardanico	btw, if someone didn't vote yet - http://www.strawpoll.me/14163114
11:30:41	Yardanico	(for araq's live stream)
11:30:47	crem	Live stream??
11:30:51	Yardanico	yes
11:30:56	Araq	"introduce yet another rewrite rule, take one away" seems fair to me
11:31:00	crem	Never heard of those.
11:31:06	Araq	considering language complexity
11:31:21	Yardanico	crem, two streams by dom96 - https://www.youtube.com/user/d0m96
11:31:27	Yardanico	and also Araq has already streamed twice
11:31:27	dom96	crem: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=583BwZ7uSro&index=1&list=PLm-fq5xBdPkrMuVkPWuho7XzszB6kJ2My :)
11:31:31	Yardanico	but his videos are not yet uploaded
11:31:57	FromGitter	<Bennyelg> I need to think about the next package for nim
11:32:13	Araq	Bennyelg: do you work on improving the forum?
11:32:29	crem	uh, 3 hours..
11:32:38	Yardanico	crem, well like any other programming stream :P
11:33:03	Yardanico	yeah, I would like to see forum in the new design
11:33:14	Yardanico	because it may be confusing that the forum has old design, while website has a new one
11:33:19	dom96	crem: Check the description for some timestamps
11:33:33	crem	Yeah, I don't know in which mode I should be to watch it. It's probably not very entertaining to listen it audio-only while travelling in a train.
11:33:50	FromGitter	<Bennyelg> @Araq I would love to try
11:34:24	FromGitter	<Bennyelg> I can do some bootstraping it
11:34:49	Yardanico	I think nim forum mostly needs design improvements
11:35:02	Yardanico	server part is (almost) ok
11:35:11	Araq	yes. well
11:35:23	Araq	design improvements are most important IMO.
11:35:31	FromGitter	<Bennyelg> I can do that I guess
11:35:34	Yardanico	btw nim forum has more than 20,000 posts
11:35:45	Yardanico	and more than 3k posts :P
11:35:46	Araq	whatever else you improve, do not touch the database model
11:35:54	FromGitter	<Bennyelg> Did you saw the forum I created with nim?
11:36:01	FromGitter	<Bennyelg> I posted some pictures few days ago
11:36:09	Araq	yeah that's why I'm asking
11:36:12	FromGitter	<Bennyelg> still need more adjustments but its pure nim + jester
11:36:27	Araq	I thought it were about improving Nim's forum :P
11:36:45	FromGitter	<Bennyelg> :D nah I did it fresh to learn nim along the way
11:37:15	FromGitter	<Bennyelg> I must improve in-order to start fixing bugs
11:37:20	dom96	Please use something like Bulma for the new design
11:37:26	Araq	but yes, do not touch the DB model or the data itself.
11:37:49	FromGitter	<Bennyelg> No of course, I'll fork the project and touch the design here and there and lets see
11:38:01	Araq	great, thanks
11:47:11	Araq	dom96: ah great idea with the timestamps
11:47:26	FromGitter	<Bennyelg> @Araq @dom96 I ran createdb which went fine
11:47:39	FromGitter	<Bennyelg> I can't run forums, I need to compile it right?
11:47:51	Araq	bennyelg: I think you also need to run editdb
11:48:32	FromGitter	<Bennyelg> @Araq No I dont, ( unhandled exception: index PersonStatusIdx already exists) if I try to run it.
11:48:43	FromGitter	<Bennyelg> too bad, I implemented to my forums a small migration system
11:50:39	euantor	I started looking at the forum, but ran out of time to do much
11:50:59	euantor	I also implemented a migration system for work, but need to clean it up and make it work with DBs other than db_mysql
11:51:40	Araq	bennyelg well then you need to create an admin or something and start posting things
11:52:36	FromGitter	<Bennyelg> @euantor how do you raise up the forums?
11:52:57	euantor	Do you mean get it running?
11:53:05	*	yglukhov quit (Remote host closed the connection)
11:53:07	FromGitter	<Bennyelg> Yes, I ran the createdb
11:53:08	FromGitter	<Bennyelg> now what?
11:53:31	euantor	So you did `nim c -r createdb`?
11:53:36	FromGitter	<Bennyelg> Yep
11:53:43	FromGitter	<Bennyelg> went fine but now what
11:53:43	euantor	Now do `nim c -r forum`
11:53:47	euantor	and it should work
11:53:49	FromGitter	<Bennyelg> I tried
11:54:06	FromGitter	<Bennyelg> ```code paste, see link``` [https://gitter.im/nim-lang/Nim?at=59e5ef5ebbbf9f1a386fe9dd]
11:54:36	euantor	hm
11:54:55	FromGitter	<zacharycarter> @TheSuspiciousWombat Sorry I missed your message - I am not aware of such a site. GLFW3 is callback based where as SDL2 is event based so their APIs differ a bit. I've been able to google most discrepancies but at this point I'm pretty familiar with both APIs so if you ask in here I can most likely tell you
11:54:56	euantor	I haven't done any work on it in ages, it's possible there's been an update that's broken it
11:55:13	FromGitter	<Bennyelg> @ :(
11:55:25	FromGitter	<Bennyelg> Date: Sat Oct 7 16:38:59 2017 +0100 ⏎ ⏎ ```Merge pull request #107 from stisa/remove-cairo-dep ⏎ ⏎ Remove cairo from .nimble deps``` [https://gitter.im/nim-lang/Nim?at=59e5efad614889d475c5fa90]
11:55:32	FromGitter	<Bennyelg> my last commit
11:55:37	FromGitter	<Bennyelg> ```code paste, see link``` [https://gitter.im/nim-lang/Nim?at=59e5efb9210ac26920f8192d]
11:56:55	Yardanico	seems to be a gcsafe issue
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11:57:00	Yardanico	I bet it is 100%
11:58:02	Yardanico	oh wait it uses jester
12:01:00	Yardanico	well
12:01:05	*	yglukhov quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
12:01:08	Yardanico	forum works for me
12:01:10	Yardanico	on nim devel :)
12:01:19	FromGitter	<Bennyelg> I'm using nim delvel
12:01:21	FromGitter	<Bennyelg> devel
12:01:23	FromGitter	<Bennyelg> 1) 7.13
12:01:29	FromGitter	<Bennyelg> 1) 17.3
12:01:30	FromGitter	<Bennyelg> *
12:01:41	FromGitter	<Bennyelg> post me the log of our commands
12:01:46	FromGitter	<Bennyelg> history |
12:02:15	Yardanico	I cloned it
12:02:18	Yardanico	did "nimble install"
12:02:26	Yardanico	then nim c -r createdb
12:02:32	Yardanico	and then ./forum to run the forum binary
12:02:51	FromGitter	<zacharycarter> @dom96 thanks for the kind words :D
12:02:56	Yardanico	LOL https://github.com/nim-lang/nimforum/blob/27a1305b2d669f69f5f3e4576c4051a7fecec244/ranks.nim#L5
12:03:02	Yardanico	wtf
12:03:28	FromGitter	<Bennyelg> funny troll
12:04:06	FromGitter	<Bennyelg> done
12:04:07	FromGitter	<Bennyelg> work
12:05:09	Yardanico	http://178.205.91.184:5000/ if you want to see a fresh instance of nimforum :P
12:05:28	Yardanico	(my IP is dynamic anyways so I can just re-plug my ethernet cable and IP will change)
12:05:28	FromGitter	<Bennyelg> Yea i got it too
12:07:17	FromGitter	<Bennyelg> My Forums Is Much more Idiomatics :D But i''l work on it
12:07:43	FromGitter	<Bennyelg> Of Course the credit is to @dom96 and is book
12:07:49	Yardanico	what do you mean by "idiomatic" ? :)
12:08:12	FromGitter	<Bennyelg> Mean, designed better
12:09:14	Yardanico	btw http://reign-studios.net/philipwitte/ doesn't work
12:11:52	Yardanico	Bennyelg: nimforum is at least 5 years old
12:11:59	Yardanico	https://github.com/nim-lang/nimforum/commit/b82d2ea9a6ac8de69faa090d73e47cd570165f16
12:12:07	Yardanico	https://github.com/nim-lang/nimforum/commit/6476dc7cbbe3f04f1b818fb4a71053342bd4f512
12:12:52	Yardanico	btw, how does "0 of 2155 users online" work?
12:13:10	Yardanico	I keep refreshing the page while being logged in, but it's still 0
12:15:43	Araq	Yardanico: it doesn't work for the live version either :-)
12:15:59	Yardanico	well I was talking about live version :P
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12:18:44	PMunch	Sorry Araq, I was AFK. Never had any problems like that with kdenlive, so can't really help with a fix. But then again as Yardanico said I've only been using it on Linux where the package manager does everything in order to make the program work. Package lock is probably caused by something not exiting properly and can usually be fixed by simply deleting the lock file :)
12:18:59	Yardanico	yeah
12:19:24	Araq	I know but I couldn't bothered to google where it resides in
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12:20:36	Araq	my default is /etc/bananajoe/local/share/usr/opt/liblibbin
12:21:24	Araq	but unfortunately nothing uses that path
12:22:44	Yardanico	Araq, what is your linux distro?
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12:23:47	Araq	BizzaroLinux version 0xFAC :D
12:24:02	Araq	(Ubuntu)
12:26:00	Yardanico	use your force :P
12:26:00	Yardanico	sudo rm /var/lib/dpkg/lock
12:26:01	*	ShalokShalom quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
12:26:27	Yardanico	or sudo rm /var/lib/apt/lists/lock
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12:27:01	Araq	see? I was close
12:29:25	Yardanico	usually if you have a lock file it means that you've shut down your pc while running dpkg or apt-get
12:29:29	Yardanico	or you Ctrl+C'ed it
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12:36:26	Araq	well it's in a VM, it can crash all it wants to
12:37:19	Demos[m]	God ubuntu is so annoying
12:38:35	Demos[m]	Everyone uses it because it’s “compatible” which means I have to dive through 1000 lines of bash to figure out how to do anything
12:41:46	Yardanico	ubuntu is falling
12:41:52	Yardanico	it's no longer the most popular linux distro
12:42:41	Yardanico	http://distrowatch.com/dwres.php?resource=popularity
12:44:07	koranza	Hey @Araq, idk how much editing you want to do, but if you just want to trim a video, the easiest software to use imho is avidemux. https://www.howtogeek.com/howto/42107/how-to-quickly-cut-a-clip-from-a-video-file-with-avidemux/
12:44:20	koranza	Bonus: it's cross platform so you can avoid linux if you want
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12:50:21	Araq	koranza: thanks will give it a try
12:50:56	Demos[m]	Isn’t mint ubuntu based?
12:52:00	crem	It is.
12:53:10	Yardanico	also for some reason manjaro is gaining popularity
12:53:24	Yardanico	(it's an arch-based distro with it's own arch-based repos)
12:54:03	Yardanico	but I just use antergos so you get hassle-free install and all arch repos :P
12:54:27	crem	Arch is suprisingly good. Takes time during first week to set everything up, but after that everything is under control and rarely breaks. On other hand ubuntu broke quite regularly for me after update, with whole weekend spent to recover.
12:54:51	Yardanico	well antergos didn't break for me
12:55:17	Yardanico	crem, how many packages you have installed ? :)
12:55:35	Demos[m]	I like arch for dev systems
12:55:43	Demos[m]	I like fedora/rhel/suse for headless boxes
12:56:05	crem	I don't know. Individual packages do break, especially as it's not tested for stability, but that's ok.
12:56:19	Yardanico	crem, I mean try to run "screenfetch" :)
12:56:44	crem	I'm not at home now, so cannot.
12:57:23	crem	There was that buggy libsdl 2.0.6 released recently, buggy as hell, broke many things. Their release procedure is weird.
12:57:53	Araq	crem: they also introduce new major features in a point release :-)
12:58:30	crem	They have yearly releases, and no QA. Just "if anyone sees any bugs, please report it before release" approach. And as noone uses new lib version before release, noone sees bugs.
12:58:53	crem	yes
12:59:41	Araq	huh that problem sounds familiar
13:00:09	Araq	it's why I like a tick-tock model for development.
13:00:23	FromGitter	<Bennyelg> anyone watching this? ⏎ https://github.com/kostya/benchmarks
13:00:26	dom96	FWIW I used avidemux
13:00:43	Yardanico	Bennyelg: microbenchmarks? :) nah
13:01:12	Yardanico	but nim is nice there
13:01:13	euantor	OpenShot has a Windows verison too and has been pretty good in my experience
13:01:14	crem	They actually going to make an exception and release bugfix 2.0.7. But during first few weeks after 2.0.6 release they said that ok, there are bugs, they will be fixed in 2.0.7 in a year.
13:02:10	FromGitter	<Bennyelg> I'm wondering how we "lossing" for rust and crystal all the way
13:02:46	Yardanico	well rust maybe is a little bit faster
13:02:53	Yardanico	because it requires you to write a LOT of additional things
13:03:47	Araq	Bennyelg: mostly because nobody cares I think
13:03:54	Yardanico	it's not fair also:
13:03:54	Yardanico	https://github.com/kostya/benchmarks/blob/master/brainfuck2/bf.cr
13:03:57	Yardanico	https://github.com/kostya/benchmarks/blob/master/brainfuck2/bf.nim
13:04:20	Yardanico	why the hell would you do a StringIterator in nim?
13:05:41	FromGitter	<Bennyelg> interesting
13:05:44	Yardanico	omg crystal is so slow at compiling
13:05:54	FromGitter	<Bennyelg> you got crystal installed?
13:05:57	Yardanico	yep
13:06:01	FromGitter	<Bennyelg> hehe
13:06:04	Yardanico	but from package manager :)
13:06:07	FromGitter	<Bennyelg> so modify the bf and run it
13:06:11	Yardanico	yeah
13:06:20	FromGitter	<Bennyelg> let win this ":P
13:06:34	Araq	yeah well it's nice if somebody can look into these
13:06:58	Araq	that said, I'm still looking for benchmarks that make sense
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13:07:30	Yardanico	well IDK
13:07:34	Yardanico	ah wait
13:07:40	Yardanico	in brainfuck2 nim is already faster than crystal
13:08:36	FromGitter	<Bennyelg> @Araq if you see benchmarks and you don't like the nim code posted , dont care about how legit the benchmark just lets be sure we provide the best nim code exists for the benchmark case
13:08:52	FromGitter	<Bennyelg> @Yardanico post me the times
13:09:04	Yardanico	well it's as in the main repo
13:09:09	Yardanico	nim is ~2 sec for me
13:09:12	Yardanico	crystal is ~2.4 sec
13:09:36	FromGitter	<Bennyelg> you modifed the nim code
13:09:37	FromGitter	<Bennyelg> ?
13:09:41	Yardanico	not yetg
13:09:55	FromGitter	<Bennyelg> lol, maybe he ran it without -d:release ?
13:09:59	euantor	The abse 64 one is easy to fix
13:10:05	Yardanico	Bennyelg: no
13:10:10	Yardanico	it's the same as in kostya benchmarks
13:10:15	euantor	Add a version that doesn't split the encoded data into lines and you immediately see an improvement
13:10:19	Yardanico	yeah
13:10:46	miran	Araq: i know i've seen that benchmarks repo and it was one (more) reason to try nim, so - even if those "doesn't make sense", it might be good to provide them with as-fast-as-possible versions
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13:11:25	miran	for newcomers like me who are gathering information about which language to try out nex
13:11:35	Araq	point taken.
13:11:52	Araq	but that's one reason I'm looking for a decent one
13:12:04	Araq	not to win it
13:12:35	Araq	to see performance regressions
13:13:33	miran	there is also http://benchmarksgame.alioth.debian.org/ which is quite popular (often mentioned), but has no nim examples
13:13:41	Yardanico	yes
13:13:43	Yardanico	and they won't add it
13:14:01	dom96	maybe it's time we create our own benchmarks... kostya is a crystal user AFAIK, wouldn't be surprised if there is some bias ;)
13:14:34	Araq	we can easily host some benchmark site, I think.
13:14:50	Araq	the problem is you'll be overwhelmed with PRs you need to carefully review all the time
13:15:03	Araq	and every benchmark needs clear rules
13:15:30	def-	miran: https://github.com/def-/nim-benchmarksgame
13:15:30	miran	i'll take a look at kostya's nim examples, but i'm just a nim beginner so most probably won't be able to provide any better versions than those already there
13:15:43	def-	miran: and I also improved the one in kostya's repo
13:16:16	Araq	I have a string concat benchmark where Nim beats C++. Now what? :P
13:16:40	def-	but like Araq said, benchmarks are not so useful
13:16:56	Araq	gcbench is useful
13:17:01	miran	the reason to post to already published benchmark repos (instead of hosting nim's own) is higher visibility for people outside of nim world (potential new users)
13:17:27	Araq	miran: you don't need to host it on Nim's own site
13:17:39	def-	Araq: sure, but comparing C, D, C++, Nim, Crystal in micro-benchmarks mostly isn't. If one of them gets faster, you can take their idea and implement it in the other language and end up with the same performance usually
13:17:52	Yardanico	btw, maybe these benchmarks will improve after destructors and moving instead of copying
13:17:56	dom96	Problem is that people look at kostya's repo and think "omg Nim is actually slower than these languages"
13:18:06	Araq	the problem is not hosting, the problem is it quickly becomes a fulltime job
13:18:47	FromGitter	<Bennyelg> Hehe well I drop a bomb , nice conversation
13:18:53	Yardanico	for some reason D is the fastest at JSON benchmark
13:19:26	def-	heh, last time I looked at kostya benchmarks Nim was around the top in most
13:19:36	Araq	we need to fix Nim's memory consumption for some of these benchmarks
13:19:49	Araq	that's concerning me.
13:20:01	Yardanico	yeah, json benchmarks takes 1.3gb of RAM
13:20:01	Araq	1GB where others only use 300MB
13:20:07	FromGitter	<Bennyelg> I also looked at the memory consumption
13:20:11	Yardanico	Araq, but sometimes nim takes less than others :)
13:20:23	Yardanico	https://github.com/kostya/benchmarks#brainfuck-v20 nim is slower than top 3, but takes less RAM
13:20:30	FromGitter	<Bennyelg> looks like the json library needs refactoring
13:20:42	Yardanico	refactoring?
13:20:45	Yardanico	maybe optimizing? :)
13:20:50	Araq	the json library uses OrderedTables which need to be improved
13:20:53	def-	for json: needs an iterator instead of loading the whole data structure into memory
13:21:06	Araq	oh yeah! good point
13:21:13	def-	at least that's how the ones with 1-3 MB did it
13:21:18	Yardanico	how does D work then?
13:21:31	Yardanico	ah yes
13:21:34	Araq	when your working set is only 1-3MB it's no wonder you win
13:21:43	Yardanico	it probably loads json data on request
13:21:43	Araq	memory usage often equals speed
13:22:03	miran	makes sense
13:22:11	Yardanico	well for some strange reason kotlin is the best(!) at brainfuck 2.0 with 28mb memory consumption
13:22:22	Yardanico	maybe cpu speed vs ram tradeoff
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13:24:12	Araq	native kotlin or jvm kotlin?
13:24:41	miran	Yardanico: you said "why the hell would you do a StringIterator in nim?" - could this benchmark be improved or is it just cosmetics?
13:25:15	Yardanico	miran, well I don't really know, it seems it's useful there
13:25:24	Yardanico	or not
13:25:28	Yardanico	I'll try to remove it
13:25:51	Yardanico	Araq, seems to be JVM kotlin
13:26:13	Araq	well bbl
13:26:15	FromGitter	<Bennyelg> as @Yardanico the one who catch my eyes were kotlin
13:26:23	FromGitter	<Bennyelg> bbl = ?
13:26:49	def-	"be back later"
13:27:06	FromGitter	<Bennyelg> go improve it :D
13:27:07	FromGitter	<Bennyelg> hehe
13:28:03	FromGitter	<Bennyelg> this benchmark also catch my eyes. ⏎ https://github.com/kostya/benchmarks/blob/master/matmul/matmul.nim
13:29:23	miran	what about it Bennyelg?
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13:30:41	FromGitter	<Bennyelg> How can Interpreted language does that on 0.11 seconds
13:31:15	Yardanico	"Julia Native Thr"
13:31:27	Yardanico	firstly - julia is meant for scientific computations
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13:34:43	miran	def-: just took a time to look at your benchmark repo - nice collection there!
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13:39:50	Yardanico	oh wait lol
13:39:58	Yardanico	I found a compiler crash
13:40:29	Yardanico	seems to be a stack overflow
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15:11:59	enthus1ast	hi guys, we've written a small SOCKS5 server and client. Check it out :) https://github.com/enthus1ast/nimSocks
15:12:19	federico3	oh nice
15:13:41	Yardanico	enthus1ast, yeah, I saw it :) nice
15:14:10	Yardanico	https://github.com/search?q=language%3ANim+created%3A2017-10-17
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15:15:19	enthus1ast	ah nice to bookmark Yardanico
15:16:57	enthus1ast	to use the client with httpclient oa. the socket must be exported i think
15:21:19	Araq	when isBlob(T)
15:21:20	Araq	vs
15:21:25	Araq	when isPod(T)
15:21:30	Araq	which name is better?
15:21:48	enthus1ast	what is pod?
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15:22:04	Araq	"plain old data" iirc
15:22:16	crem	What's the difference of blob/pod vs non-blob/pod?
15:22:32	crem	Can be memcopied safely?
15:23:16	Araq	https://stackoverflow.com/questions/4178175/what-are-aggregates-and-pods-and-how-why-are-they-special/7189821#7189821
15:23:25	Araq	exactly, crem nails it
15:23:40	Araq	maybe it should be memCopyable(T) ?
15:24:47	crem	I think that "pod" is C++-specific name. "Old" there means "something from old C, not modern C++".
15:24:58	crem	On the other hand, I don't like blob either. :)
15:25:20	crem	blob means "chunk of bytes without structure" for me.
15:25:52	Araq	that's quite on point though
15:26:19	Araq	you can only do the required type erasure for copyMem if they have no structure
15:26:33	crem	What is blob/pod in nim? Doesn't have refs/ptrs in it? Doesn't have refs/ptrs into it?
15:26:51	Araq	well Nim has no such concept yet
15:26:59	Araq	there is "contains GC'ed data"
15:27:23	Araq	with affects closures, refs, seqs, strings and their transitive closure
15:27:58	Araq	I think I'll go with memCopyable for now
15:28:28	Araq	or maybe allowsCopyMem
15:30:30	FromGitter	<Varriount> Araq: "supportsMemcopy"?
15:30:56	FromGitter	<Varriount> Or "canMemcopy"
15:31:04	Araq	it's system.copyMem
15:31:10	Araq	canCopyMem ?
15:31:32	Araq	supportsCopyMem(), no need to keep it short, it's rarely used
15:32:03	enthus1ast	i can copy mem when its in the same thread?
15:32:07	Yardanico	Araq, sorry for me being annoying, but when your next stream will be ? :) we have 24 votes here - http://www.strawpoll.me/14163114/r it's 4% of people who did nim community survey :P
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15:33:15	Araq	Yardanico: I dunno if I'll do it tonight or on Thursday night
15:34:05	FromGitter	<Varriount> Araq: It might be best to use the term which could be grouped with other, similar classifications
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15:34:34	Araq	when supportsCopyMem(T): copyMem(x, y, sizeof(T)) # obviously correct code
15:34:41	FromGitter	<Varriount> If you need to add other classifications (deletable, etc)
15:50:53	Yardanico	Araq, wait, if we will have destructors for every type, we don't need GC? except for cyclic data?
15:55:09	Yardanico	or GC will run only for user types if user didn't provide a destructor?
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15:56:10	euantor	GC will call the destructor I would think
15:56:37	euantor	if it's anything like destructors from any other language
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15:57:48	Yardanico	euantor, but it seems that destroyer compiler pass will inject destructor calls in the code
15:57:54	Yardanico	https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/blob/devel/compiler/destroyer.nim
15:58:02	Yardanico	"Injects destructor calls into Nim code "
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15:58:24	euantor	I've not been following it, but that would make sense when the lifetime of an object can be worked out at compile time
15:58:45	Yardanico	well this is probably what araq is doing :)
15:58:55	euantor	looks like it
15:59:32	euantor	I was guessing it was more like C#'s destructors which are functions called when an object is cleaned up by the GC. The function would then close file handles etc.
16:00:08	euantor	And Nim already has destructors that are similar: https://nim-lang.org/docs/manual.html#type-bound-operations-destructors
16:00:20	Yardanico	yeah
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16:00:57	euantor	And when it's a ref object you use a finalizer. I guess the new destroyer will call those finalizers too
16:01:24	euantor	pretty cool :D
16:01:30	Yardanico	euantor, well firstly Araq wants to implement GC-free strings and sequences :)
16:01:46	Yardanico	he already tried it for strings, but he said that his gc-free strings were a bit slower than current nim strings
16:02:25	Yardanico	euantor, the example of new destructors - https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/blob/devel/tests/destructor/tcustomstrings.nim
16:02:27	euantor	I don't do much low level stuff at all, but I honestly haven't encountered any GC issues in Nim yet. SO long as that doesn't change I'm happy ;)
16:02:41	Yardanico	compile with nim c --newruntime tcustomstrings.nim
16:02:48	Yardanico	if you have a devel version
16:02:54	euantor	I'm at work, so can't
16:03:02	euantor	will try and remember to look at it later
16:05:34	Yardanico	and also it's already cool that nim allows you to use whole stdlib even if you've disabled GC
16:05:38	Yardanico	but memory will just leak :)
16:06:11	Yardanico	so it would be useful for this use-case: https://groups.google.com/forum/message/raw?msg=comp.lang.ada/E9bNCvDQ12k/1tezW24ZxdAJ
16:07:12	Araq	Yardanico: lol yeah I read that one before, super interesting use case
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16:13:26	Yardanico	also I really like that we can still access all these emails through google
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16:18:13	UxerUospr	how should I include a type for use in multiple files in a module without causing a recursive module depency? Should I split it out into a separate file and import it into every other or is there a better way?
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16:19:42	Yardanico	UxerUospr, the simplest way would be to split this type into a separate file
16:20:08	Yardanico	nim supports recursive module dependency
16:20:11	Yardanico	but it can break
16:20:46	UxerUospr	Yardanico: Thanks! That's what I'll do
16:20:52	FromGitter	<mratsim> @BennyElg for the Kostya matmul benchmark, Julia Native Thread is calling Fortran behind the scene
16:21:24	FromGitter	<mratsim> Arraymancer also has the same speed if I call the Fortran lib
16:22:08	FromGitter	<mratsim> They have been tuned for 20 years and were the work of many PhDs (aka BLAS, Basic Linear Algebra Subroutines)
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16:33:56	shodan45	oh look, another C replacement language.... http://ziglang.org/
16:34:21	Yardanico	g competes with C instead of depending on it. The Zig Standard Library does not depend on libc.
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16:34:24	Yardanico	that's nice
16:34:30	Yardanico	(does not depend on libc)
16:34:38	Yardanico	but otoh it's not nice
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16:35:25	shodan45	Yardanico: make up your mind :P
16:35:50	Yardanico	I mean it's nice because it shows that language is quite capable of doing things
16:36:00	Yardanico	on the other hand it means that it probably would be slower and would have more bugs
16:36:01	Yardanico	than libc
16:36:10	shodan45	"in a surprise move, instead of libc, zig depends on ruby!"
16:36:53	shodan45	sorry, I'm in a goofy mood
16:39:14	Yardanico	also it has ReleaseSafe and ReleaseFast
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16:43:17	Yardanico	looks a bit weird :) http://ziglang.org/documentation/master/#case-study-printf
16:45:04	FromGitter	<BigEpsilon> Hi, I get this error when trying to compile c2nim (master branch) : .nimble/pkgs/compiler-#head/compiler/rodutils.nim(25, 14) Error: type mismatch: got (array[0..80, char], string, BiggestFloat) ⏎ ⏎ ``` ... but expected one of: ⏎ ... proc c_sprintf(buf, frmt: cstring)``` ⏎ ⏎ Any idea ? [https://gitter.im/nim-lang/Nim?at=59e63390f7299e8f53fba522]
16:45:44	Yardanico	yeah
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16:45:48	Yardanico	update your compiler package :)
16:45:52	Yardanico	from nimble
16:46:00	FromGitter	<BigEpsilon> nimble update ?
16:46:04	Yardanico	probably
16:46:12	Yardanico	ah, no
16:46:25	Yardanico	try "nimble install compiler@#head"
16:46:36	Yardanico	or "nimble uninstall compiler", "nimble install compiler@#head"
16:46:57	Yardanico	In recent nim devel implicit array[char] -> cstring conversion was removed, that's why
16:49:23	FromGitter	<BigEpsilon> thanks !
16:49:26	FromGitter	<BigEpsilon> it works
16:49:30	FromGitter	<BigEpsilon> well almost
16:49:34	FromGitter	<BigEpsilon> c2nim.nim(87, 17) Error: type mismatch: got (PNode, string) ⏎ ⏎ ```code paste, see link``` [https://gitter.im/nim-lang/Nim?at=59e6349ed6c36fca31628b47]
16:50:05	FromGitter	<BigEpsilon> but that in c2nim so I will try to correct it
16:50:13	FromGitter	<Yardanico> hmm, what's your compiler version?
16:50:32	FromGitter	<BigEpsilon> I'm on head
16:51:03	FromGitter	<BigEpsilon> Nim Compiler Version 0.17.3 (2017-10-11) [Linux: amd64] ⏎ Copyright (c) 2006-2017 by Andreas Rumpf ⏎ ⏎ git hash: bedc9e4e6de3c536c6ef6b7ff6b1874aac5b29ba [https://gitter.im/nim-lang/Nim?at=59e634f65c40c1ba79b1582c]
16:51:21	FromGitter	<BigEpsilon> and the compiler as lib is also on head
16:51:39	FromGitter	<BigEpsilon> just updated it with the help of Yardanico
16:52:12	Yardanico	I'm the same Yardanico :P
16:52:38	FromGitter	<BigEpsilon> oh ....
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16:52:55	FromGitter	<BigEpsilon> the gitter ghost of him :)
17:04:17	FromGitter	<BigEpsilon> ok found the problem, will do a PR tomorow
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17:23:02	UxerUospr	Using db_postgres getValue(...) I get "row number 0 is out of range 0..-1
17:23:11	*	yglukhov quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
17:23:12	UxerUospr	when there isn't a value
17:23:15	UxerUospr	in the table
17:23:23	UxerUospr	How should I handle that?
17:26:17	Calinou	<dom96> Calinou: What do you consider OOP?
17:26:25	Calinou	classes (with methods/attributes) and the like
17:26:34	Calinou	with inheritance (at least)
17:26:59	Calinou	I know I'm following a Java course at uni (we'll probably end up writing another https://github.com/EnterpriseQualityCoding/FizzBuzzEnterpriseEdition :D), but Nim not supporting full-blown OOP is fine to me
17:27:05	FromGitter	<BigEpsilon> @Araq , a little fix for c2nim https://github.com/nim-lang/c2nim/pull/113
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17:29:13	Yardanico	Calinou, nim has that
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17:33:48	Calinou	ok :)
17:34:01	Calinou	what's the equivalent of Python's "pass" in Nim? so that I can define a method without any code inside
17:34:47	Yardanico	Calinou, discard
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17:42:31	Yardanico	Calinou, nim has single-inheritance, but multiple dispatch
17:42:42	Yardanico	but really methods are not really needed in most of the cases :)
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17:43:15	Calinou	why not?
17:44:05	Yardanico	Calinou, for example instead of different AST node types inherited from Node you can have one object variant
17:44:42	Yardanico	and methods are always slower than simple functions/procedures
17:44:45	Calinou	the Godot Nim stub doesn't make use of getNode at all, that doesn't help me :'(
17:44:55	Calinou	since I need it to connect signals, the GUI doesn't seem to work
17:45:00	Calinou	(it doesn't find the method in the NativeScript)
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17:56:41	FromGitter	<mratsim> methods are actually not that slow surprisingly, only 3x slower than procs: https://github.com/mratsim/Arraymancer/blob/master/benchmarks/implementation/proc_method_closure_bench.nim
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17:59:40	FromGitter	<mratsim> Celebrating Christmas, the Nim way
17:59:49	FromGitter	<mratsim> (https://files.gitter.im/nim-lang/Nim/JPoP/2017-10-17_19-59-27.png)
18:06:37	Calinou	oh, that's why my benchmark took 5600 ms to complete
18:06:42	Calinou	godot-nim uses methods, not procs, though
18:07:02	Calinou	(Mono without optimizations takes 2200 ms, 1800 ms with optimizations)
18:07:11	Calinou	(GDScript takes 48000 ms in release mode, 75000 ms in debug mode :P)
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18:08:19	Araq	BigEpsilon: Er, sorry, these new newlines shouldn't really be there though
18:08:29	Araq	I need to patch the renderer again :-)
18:08:40	Araq	regression caused by live coding, yay
18:09:34	livcd	ah smh dom did ?
18:09:45	shodan45	Araq: renderer? nim renders things now, too? :D
18:10:06	Araq	livcd: no, me.
18:10:22	livcd	ah ok i thought about his twitch
18:10:23	Araq	shodan45: that's the term I use for AST -> string pretty printing
18:10:47	shodan45	Araq: oh lol
18:11:16	shodan45	so then yes, nim renders things :)
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18:14:58	Yardanico	mratsim: it's because of me :P
18:15:09	Yardanico	almost half of all labels were of the same color
18:15:52	FromGitter	<mratsim> ^^
18:16:19	Araq	mratsim: that benchmark is flawed
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18:16:36	FromGitter	<mratsim> epochTime?
18:16:55	Yardanico	try nimbench
18:16:56	Araq	no, you don't measure closures but GC allocations
18:16:56	Yardanico	it's the best
18:17:25	Araq	you should move the closure creation out of the loop
18:17:42	Araq	but ok, often that's not possible and then the benchmark is accurate
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18:19:34	FromGitter	<mratsim> Well in my case I couldn’t this was previous implementation of my tensor operations before switching to injecting templates
18:19:39	Yardanico	mratsim: also I've added performance label - and guess who has report last 3 performance issues ? :) https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3APerformance
18:19:51	Yardanico	edubart, so arraymancer :)
18:28:18	Calinou	how do I tell Nake to build a library (.dll) in release mode, rather than debug?
18:28:21	Calinou	(with optimizations enabled)
18:28:50	FromGitter	<mratsim> why are you still using make?
18:28:57	FromGitter	<mratsim> nake*
18:29:12	Yardanico	yeah
18:29:21	Yardanico	use nimble
18:29:35	Yardanico	Calinou, but generally you just add -d:release
18:30:19	Calinou	if I used "nimble build", it didn't find the classes I needed
18:30:24	Calinou	(which aren't part of the package)
18:30:35	Calinou	also, I didn't know Nake was obsolete
18:30:46	Calinou	the readme doesn't state it
18:31:31	Yardanico	well, it's not "obsolete" but WHY you use third-party program when you can use official package manager?
18:33:26	Araq	nake is more powerful than NimScript though since it's compiled :-)
18:34:30	Araq	hmm this destructor stuff is like crack
18:34:52	Araq	fits beautiful into Nim's design, better than the GC
18:35:00	Calinou	Yardanico: godot-nim told me to ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
18:35:19	Calinou	oh, "nimble build" works now
18:35:30	Araq	Yardanico: and I told godot-nim's author to use 'nake'
18:36:03	Calinou	looks like it doesn't create a .dll, though, it creates an .exe instead
18:36:11	Calinou	(I'm calling the command directly)
18:36:41	Calinou	oh, "nimble make" did the job
18:37:10	livcd	Araq: oh so there might not be a GC if your experiments go well ? :)
18:37:50	Yardanico	but past 1.0
18:37:51	Araq	the transition period will likely be measured in years, but yeah
18:37:51	Calinou	will we have to manage memory manually in the future? :(
18:38:00	Calinou	I mean, it's the reason I step away from C++ and the like
18:38:27	Calinou	Yardanico: "nimble make" ignores the "-d:release" I pass to it, i.e. the final .dll is the same size and has the same performance
18:38:34	Calinou	I'm pretty sure it's built in debug mode
18:38:43	Yardanico	Calinou, you should add custom commands probably
18:39:06	Araq	Calinou: usually you don't manage memory manually in C++
18:40:56	Calinou	:| I added "-d:release" to the package's nim.cfg, it makes the .dll slightly smaller but not any faster
18:41:15	Araq	-d:release doesn't work in a .cfg file
18:41:23	Araq	pass it via command line
18:41:37	Calinou	yes, but "nimble make" ignores it, it outputs the same .dll regardless of what I put
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18:47:44	FromGitter	<zetashift> godot-nim is slower than the godot-mono module? :O
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18:59:41	UxerUospr	I'm not getting anywhere. getValue and getRow in db_postgres both echo/print out "row number 0 is out of range 0..-1" when the query returns no result
19:00:07	UxerUospr	I've grepped the nim codebase and I haven't found where it's coming from there
19:00:38	UxerUospr	I assume it's something in what the postgres.nim wrapper is wrapping
19:01:11	UxerUospr	How do I get to that code?
19:01:26	miran	range 0..-1? shouldn't that be 0..^1? (wild guessing here, i have no idea what i'm talking about)
19:01:53	Araq	miran: it's an empty range
19:02:04	UxerUospr	miran: I think the "row number 0 is out of range 0..-1" comes from postgres though I'm not sure
19:02:13	Araq	UxerUospr: the code is in lib/impure/db_postgres.nim
19:03:43	UxerUospr	Araq: I've looked there and it seems fine... doesn't have the string I'm trying to track down. I looked in /lib/wrappers/postgres.nim as well, since I think that's what db_postgres.nim is importing
19:04:18	UxerUospr	I'll admit, I don't fully understand the wrapper code so I could have missed something
19:04:41	UxerUospr	It's really odd to me that it's priting out this string, though
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19:05:01	Araq	give me something I can run
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19:07:07	UxerUospr	Araq: It'll require having postgres set up and able to communicate, with tables, etc. I can show you what I'm doing, at least... one sec.
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19:12:01	UxerUospr	I don't imagine it's very helpful but here's where it happens in my code: https://gist.github.com/optik-aper/58c132a82e8be575d4bda318fcdf1032
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19:16:49	miran	anything like python's `defaultdict` in nim?
19:17:44	miran	is there a way how to 'simulate' that without manually checking every time if table has a key, and then if not create for example an empty sequence?
19:18:48	UxerUospr	Araq: It looks like it might be coming from here: https://git.postgresql.org/gitweb/?p=postgresql.git;a=blob;f=src/interfaces/libpq/fe-exec.c;hb=6ecabead4b5993c42745f2802d857b1a79f48bf9
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19:22:49	dom96	Calinou: modify the .nimble file then
19:23:03	dom96	'make' is a task that is most definitely defined in your .nimble file
19:26:40	FromGitter	<zacharycarter> @zetashift - what makes you say that?
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19:30:41	Araq	miran: getOrDefault
19:32:50	miran	Araq: will try it, but i'm not sure that's it...
19:32:51	Araq	UxerUospr: well you don't have any value for this title
19:35:47	UxerUospr	Araq: I pass in "title" in the proc
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19:39:48	UxerUospr	Araq: Also, I should mention that the value does get assigned by getValue as "" when the result isNil
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19:40:37	UxerUospr	It just seems weird that it would also print out this range error message
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19:43:27	Araq	does it raise an exception with this error?
19:45:12	UxerUospr	Araq: Would that stop execution if it was unhandled? I don't have it handled and it doesn't stop execution. It moves on to the next one happily (I call it about 300 times in a loop)
19:45:36	Araq	it should die with a stacktrace
19:45:47	Araq	probably some error handling is wrong here
19:45:50	UxerUospr	No, it doesn't die for that reason
19:51:34	miran	Araq: i have `var nodes = initTable[string, newSeq[Route]()]()`, and i want to do `nodes[node].add(Route(dest: neighbour, cost: cost))`. i've tried with `getordefault` but i got sigsegv error....
19:52:27	Araq	that's not how to call initTable
19:54:17	miran	no? what's wrong and how do i fix it?
19:55:43	Calinou	<FromGitter> <zetashift> godot-nim is slower than the godot-mono module? :O
19:55:44	Araq	initTable[string, seq[Route]]()
19:55:45	Calinou	right now, yes
19:56:01	Calinou	note that if I use a proc instead of a method (for the fibo() recursive function), it's quite faster, 3400 ms instead of 5600 ms
19:56:11	miran	Araq: oh, i thought so after i asked :) sorry for noob mistakes
19:56:13	Calinou	still 1200 ms slower than Mono without optimizations, though
19:56:19	Calinou	this is why I'm trying to compile the .dll in release mode :)
19:56:21	Yardanico	Calinou, why do you have fibo as a recursive function?
19:56:28	Yardanico	it's pointless
19:56:29	Calinou	Yardanico: because it's a simple way to benchmark things :P
19:56:43	Calinou	honestly, it could be anything
19:56:53	Calinou	benchmarks don't reflect real use cases by definition
19:57:01	Calinou	but they let you know if something is wrong or slow
19:57:34	Araq	ok but coming up with a representative benchmark for a realworld problem is not that hard either
19:57:46	Calinou	but it's more code to write :P
19:57:48	Calinou	this one is 5 lines or so
19:58:20	miran	even with the correct initTable, i don't seem to get `getOrDefault` to work - sigsegv again....
19:59:06	Calinou	anyway, still can't get it to compile in release mode :(
20:03:14	Yardanico	miran, getOrDefault will return nil
20:03:17	Yardanico	for a seq
20:03:23	Yardanico	because default value for seq is nil
20:03:28	miran	damn
20:03:36	Yardanico	so after you "var mything = table.getOrDefault(key"
20:03:37	Yardanico	check
20:03:42	Yardanico	"if mything.isNil: ..."
20:03:57	Yardanico	Calinou, can you compile it with nim compiler?
20:04:00	Yardanico	without nake or nimble
20:04:34	miran	so i need to revert to `if not table.hasKey(key): ...`?
20:05:22	Yardanico	miran, you can even do "if key notin table:"
20:05:39	Calinou	whoa…
20:05:40	Calinou	https://media.hugo.pro/godot_2017-10-17_22-05-37.png
20:05:44	Calinou	this is hyperspeed compared to anything else :P
20:06:00	dom96	Calinou: benchmarking non-release mode code doesn't really have much importance.
20:06:10	Calinou	dom96: yes, this is why I was attempting to compile it in release mode
20:06:18	Calinou	but I couldn't do it without calling nim manually :(
20:06:28	dom96	did you try what I suggested?
20:06:43	dom96	what's your .nimble file's contents?
20:07:02	miran	Yardanico: ok, it might be more readable. but whatever i choose, i need to initialize the sequence there. there's no 'cure' for that, right?
20:07:31	Calinou	https://hastebin.com/cizuhilazu.nim
20:07:34	Calinou	this is the .nimble file
20:07:49	Calinou	(I didn't touch the code from the Nim stub, only changed some things at the top)
20:07:59	dom96	ooh, fancy
20:08:09	miran	for nested sequences, there would be `newSeqWith`, but when it comes to tables with sequnces, i need to do manual checking?
20:08:28	dom96	have you tried: exec "nimble build -y" -> exec "nimble build -y -d:release"
20:08:28	dom96	?
20:09:12	Yardanico	miran, yes
20:09:20	Yardanico	but in the future seq will be non-nil by default
20:09:24	Yardanico	string is already not nil BTW
20:09:28	miran	really?
20:09:30	Yardanico	yes
20:09:38	dom96	is it?
20:09:42	Yardanico	yes
20:09:45	dom96	since when?
20:09:55	miran	that's something in 0.17.2 or just in devel? (string not nil)
20:10:02	Yardanico	in devel
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20:10:17	Calinou	this is with fibo() as a method, it's slower but still pretty fast: https://media.hugo.pro/godot_2017-10-17_22-09-54.png
20:10:22	miran	and when will that not-nil-seq future be present? soon?
20:10:24	Calinou	dom96: no, I haven't… I'll try
20:10:27	Yardanico	miran, yeah, probably
20:10:39	Calinou	I'd like to be able to quickly switch between debug and release, though
20:10:46	miran	seems like a bright future to me :)
20:11:07	dom96	Calinou: so create another task called 'makeR' or something :)
20:11:20	dom96	(assuming this works)
20:11:44	Calinou	yeah, sounds hacky, but that would work :P
20:11:54	Araq	Yardanico: 'nil' is still a thing for strings and seqs, but len(x) == 0 for x.isNil
20:11:58	Calinou	anyway, thanks for helping me with this :)
20:12:03	Araq	and that has been the case for quite some time now
20:12:23	Yardanico	Araq, well at least we can echo empty strings now :)
20:12:37	Yardanico	and not initialized ones too
20:12:39	Araq	more changes related to 'nil' caused mysterious compiler crashes
20:12:58	Yardanico	ohh
20:13:00	Araq	which is one more reason I'm going after destructors
20:13:09	Yardanico	https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/commit/35c8b5e3bcc13ade6441f1b53ee8d3acacffded3
20:14:13	Calinou	sorry for being annoying, I just wanted to get this working to show off :P
20:14:38	dom96	Calinou: Eventually .nimble files will have more power and get access to arguments
20:14:51	dom96	Araq: So what happened to the stream?
20:15:26	Yardanico	dom96, he'll do it tomorrow probably
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20:15:43	Araq	no, Thursday night, 21:00
20:15:57	Yardanico	21:00 UTC?
20:16:01	Araq	I should probably announce this on Twitch somehow
20:16:04	miran	the topic?
20:16:08	Araq	21:00 my time
20:16:11	miran	19:00 UTC
20:16:19	Yardanico	Araq, ah, 22:00 for me
20:16:23	dom96	Araq: No, you should get a Twitter account and announce it there.
20:16:27	Yardanico	miran, vote here - http://www.strawpoll.me/14163114
20:16:35	Yardanico	Araq, we can announce it on reddit too
20:16:41	Araq	omg
20:16:54	Araq	then it has to be awesome...
20:17:13	dom96	I tweeted about your previous livestreams on Nim's twitter
20:17:26	Yardanico	Araq, it has to be "nimasome"!
20:17:34	miran	Yardanico: voted for destructors, hoping to see the glimpse of that bright future :)
20:17:54	Araq	it helps when I don't know I'm being watched
20:18:14	Yardanico	well your previous streams were watched by ~10 people
20:18:40	Araq	that poll ... so surprising how stable the results are, it feels like 100 more votes wouldn't change the outcome
20:18:55	Yardanico	it just changed
20:19:04	Yardanico	maybe people from twitter/reddit will vote for karax
20:19:10	Yardanico	dom96, share this link too then - http://www.strawpoll.me/14163114
20:19:14	Yardanico	so people will vote :)
20:19:40	Araq	Yardanico: "destructors for Nim" is still first
20:19:46	Yardanico	Araq, yes
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20:23:02	Yardanico	Araq, everything can still change because we shared the link on twitter & reddit
20:23:10	Yardanico	people there are usually more high-level oriented
20:23:40	dom96	Araq: Shall I tweet about it?
20:23:51	Araq	sure, I can stand the pressure
20:25:14	dom96	now
20:25:16	dom96	...
20:25:23	Araq	:P
20:25:25	dom96	when a copy and paste fails
20:25:26	dom96	https://twitter.com/nim_lang/status/920385204686073858
20:25:27	Yardanico	oh, destructors got one more vote
20:25:29	Yardanico	we have 30 votes
20:26:03	dom96	ooh, cool, 20 likes on this tweet of mine https://twitter.com/d0m96/status/919857258191818752
20:26:56	Yardanico	maybe we need to cross-post it on /r/programming on thursday ? :)
20:26:59	dom96	Twitter is a powerful thing
20:27:04	dom96	We've got 1.1k followers now :)
20:27:24	dom96	I think it would be better to submit some pre-recorded livestreams
20:27:27	dom96	*hint hint*
20:28:44	Yardanico	Btw, strawpoll is updated in real-time
20:28:57	Yardanico	so if you're very popular, you can literally see how results change
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20:29:13	dom96	would be cool to recreate strawpoll in Nim :P
20:29:24	Yardanico	Araq, btw
20:29:24	Araq	oh!
20:29:35	Araq	dom96: that's a great idea
20:29:37	federico3	dom96: or a better doodle.com
20:29:41	Araq	can do that with karax+ormin
20:29:44	Yardanico	Araq, dom96, https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=irth.twitchlint
20:29:50	Yardanico	Twitchlint is an extension for Visual Studio Code that allows your Twitch viewers sent you suggestions for your code via the chat.
20:29:51	Yardanico	:P
20:29:57	dom96	Araq: Awesome :D
20:29:58	dom96	Do it :)
20:30:14	dom96	Using web sockets for that would make sense
20:30:23	Araq	ok, tests are green, time for another try to cut my video lol
20:30:28	Araq	dom96: exactly!
20:30:47	Yardanico	Araq, try to use avidemux
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20:39:58	FromGitter	<pacopa> Hi. While compiling koch, I got the following error:
20:40:01	FromGitter	<pacopa> Hint: dynlib [Processing] ⏎ lib/wrappers/openssl.nim(617, 18) Error: type mismatch: got (ptr array[0..511, char]) ⏎ but expected one of: ⏎ proc hexStr(buf: cstring): string [https://gitter.im/nim-lang/Nim?at=59e66aa001110b7231cad029]
20:40:35	Yardanico	hmm
20:40:48	Yardanico	Araq, take my words back :P http://www.strawpoll.me/14163114/r
20:40:53	Yardanico	19 votes for destructors
20:42:07	SunDwarf	Yardanico, that extension sounds like hell
20:42:13	Yardanico	SunDwarf, why ? :)
20:42:18	Yardanico	if your stream has only 10-15 people
20:42:28	Yardanico	but surely Araq's stream will have more
20:42:53	SunDwarf	gonna love the 1000 lint requests with twitch emotes
20:43:00	Yardanico	SunDwarf, lol
20:43:32	SunDwarf	or the inevitable zalgo lint
20:43:44	Yardanico	but yeah, this wouldn't help much for araq
20:43:58	Yardanico	because we don't have big experience in destructors :P
20:44:05	Yardanico	it would be useful for dom though
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20:47:17	Araq	pacopa: koch doesn't use openssl.nim
20:47:20	FromGitter	<pacopa> Sorry. I was running ./koch tools
20:47:33	Araq	./koch boot -d:release
20:47:37	Araq	before that then
20:47:53	Araq	but yeah, I could improve backwards compat for this
20:50:32	FromGitter	<pacopa> Ahhh, ok! That was the problem :-) Thanks, @Araq
20:51:26	Yardanico	Araq, is there something about rodfiles in your todo? :)
20:52:10	Araq	yardanico: I have new ideas of how to implement these
20:52:22	Yardanico	Araq, that's always good to hear
20:52:30	Yardanico	they'll be a killer feature
20:52:37	Yardanico	nim is already fast at compilation
20:53:02	Araq	I don't have good ideas that are not much work though, but I'm getting there
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20:57:05	Yardanico	this is why reddit/github community is not very serious sometimes: https://github.com/Property404/fetlang
20:57:11	Yardanico	this repo has almost 1k stars :P
20:59:10	FromGitter	<Varriount> Yardanico: Truly, that is the programming language of the future.
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21:35:33	Calinou	my favorite joke repo is https://github.com/EnterpriseQualityCoding/FizzBuzzEnterpriseEdition
21:36:05	Calinou	although for esolangs, I'd go for https://github.com/avian2/fimpp
21:36:37	Calinou	it doesn't work on PonyOS, though :'( that's no fun
21:43:42	FromGitter	<Varriount> Calinou: I'm trying to decide which is better - the java programmers who want 15 layers of abstraction and indirection, or the general programmers who lump everything into one monolithic function.
21:44:08	FromGitter	<Varriount> Though, I'll admit to sometimes being part of the latter category
21:49:24	Calinou	I try to find a middle ground :P
21:49:30	Calinou	overengineering definitely isn't a good thing, but underengineering also sin't
21:49:32	Calinou	isn't*
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21:59:13	Araq	have yet to find an underengineered codebase that is as bad as overengineered ones
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22:18:54	FromGitter	<mratsim> Somehow a lot of Nim code I write is 2-7 lines of stuff and 5-15 lines of comment
22:23:23	FromGitter	<mratsim> There was this Terraria clone which made Reddit HN 5 days ago and was the first programming/game attempt of someone https://github.com/raxod502/TerrariaClone/blob/master/src/TerrariaClone.java#L1868
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22:25:08	FromGitter	<Yardanico> Araq: 47 votes! http://www.strawpoll.me/14163114/r
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22:44:17	Araq	ugh we actually have a test that tests 'echo' is required to lock the stdout stream
22:44:36	Araq	and that's currently not true for windows and so appveyor is red
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