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| 00:34:05 | flaviu | Finally got a chance to look at my builder. Looks like the SD card is dead; I'll have to get a new one. Sorry for the delay! |
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| 01:00:37 | BlueProtoman | Problem in the nimble section of the library page! http://nim-lang.org/docs/lib.html#nimble |
| 01:05:11 | flaviu | BlueProtoman: ouch! Looks like a bad PR was merged, I've reverted it. It should become functional again soon! (or maybe not, I have no idea how this works ;)) |
| 01:05:58 | BlueProtoman | flaviu: Didn't look that closely, but was the JSON package list malformed? What about any sort of Web template (a la Mustache)? |
| 01:06:32 | flaviu | BlueProtoman: https://github.com/nim-lang/packages/pull/269/files was merged. Please note the trailing comma, that's what caused the problem. |
| 01:07:29 | BlueProtoman | flaviu: Oy. Ain't strict JSON a bitch. |
| 01:08:49 | flaviu | yup. |
| 01:09:48 | BlueProtoman | Hey, do you think anyone here would be interested in helping me port a popular ECS library to Nim over the next two months or so? |
| 01:10:47 | BlueProtoman | I think the lack of a decent one (and the lack of support for certain tools and importers, but that's a simpler solution) is one of the main things keeping Nim from being taken seriously as a game dev language. |
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| 01:13:09 | BlueProtoman | Things like Tiled importers or texture atlas loaders are just a matter of parsing XML, but this is more fundamental |
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| 01:19:19 | flaviu | BlueProtoman: I haven't had time for Nim in months, I'm a poor person to ask. Have you seen the logs? Looks like def- replied to your question last night. |
| 01:19:42 | flaviu | err Demos. http://irclogs.nim-lang.org/16-11-2015.html, around 05:06:21 |
| 01:20:58 | BlueProtoman | Ah, I see. |
| 01:22:23 | BlueProtoman | You know who else would be interested? |
| 01:23:41 | flaviu | No, I'm sorry. Have you tried asking on the forums? |
| 01:23:47 | BlueProtoman | No, not yet |
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| 01:39:21 | BlueProtoman | flaviu: Done. http://forum.nim-lang.org/t/1806 |
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| 01:45:32 | BlueProtoman | Oh, also, didn't know there was a unittest module, it doesn't seem to be listed as part of the standard library http://nim-lang.org/docs/lib.html |
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| 01:59:04 | flaviu | BlueProtoman: last time I checked, it was a little iffy. It isn't listed because of that, but the documentation is here: http://nim-lang.org/docs/unittest.html |
| 01:59:28 | BlueProtoman | flaviu: What's so iffy about it? |
| 02:00:42 | flaviu | The macro it uses for it's assert hasn't been tested and made to work with very complex expressions. When you do complex stuff in your asserts, there's a chance it'll fail to compile. |
| 02:00:59 | flaviu | s/been tested/been tested with/ |
| 02:03:35 | BlueProtoman | So I should stick to "check x == y" instead of, say, "check x.something(y + len(z.stuff))"? |
| 02:05:10 | flaviu | yup. |
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| 02:06:07 | BlueProtoman | Eh, I can live with that. Unit test conditions should be simple anyway |
| 02:07:04 | flaviu | They may have fixed most the weird bugs btw--I looked over the bug tracker, and nothing really stands out. Keep in mind I've been away for months--development moves fast. |
| 02:07:36 | BlueProtoman | Good point |
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| 02:08:22 | BlueProtoman | Also, where is the documentation generator's source code? I think it could do with a bit of improvement (mainly in organizing procs, vars, etc.) |
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| 02:21:57 | flaviu | https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/blob/devel/compiler/docgen.nim |
| 02:22:23 | flaviu | It's built into the compiler. There's also docgen2.nim, but I don't remember what that is. It hasn't been touched in a while though… |
| 02:22:34 | flaviu | It=docgen2.nim. |
| 02:22:54 | flaviu | at least the second It :P |
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| 02:25:02 | BlueProtoman | TODO: Organize docs for procs better and implement data-driven testing in unittest a la Qt |
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| 11:41:39 | andrewvos | How can I get walkFiles to list .files |
| 11:41:47 | andrewvos | Files that have a . prefix |
| 11:44:58 | def- | andrewvos: walkFiles(".*") |
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| 11:51:33 | andrewvos | def-: Yeah, but I would like to include files that also aren't hidden |
| 12:03:45 | def- | That sounds like a bug if it doesn't do that by default |
| 12:05:11 | def- | or maybe not. What about just a walkDir(".")? |
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| 12:52:09 | andrewvos | def-: walkFiles(".*") includes ., .., and any files with . prefix |
| 12:52:12 | andrewvos | But not diles without |
| 12:52:15 | andrewvos | files |
| 12:52:21 | andrewvos | Which is to be expected |
| 12:52:31 | andrewvos | You normally have to explicitly ask for hidden files |
| 12:52:59 | andrewvos | For example, in ruby |
| 12:53:06 | andrewvos | Dir.glob("**/*.symlink", File::FNM_DOTMATCH) |
| 12:59:16 | andrewvos | There don't seem to be any tests for os.walkFiles? |
| 12:59:22 | andrewvos | Or I can't find them |
| 13:12:05 | andrewvos | yeah walkDir finds them |
| 13:12:08 | andrewvos | def-: |
| 13:12:16 | andrewvos | Sorry thought you said walkFiles earlier |
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| 14:37:34 | tja | Good day; I have a noob question wrt macros and type names... is this the correct venue? |
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| 14:51:35 | dom96_ | tja: Please just ask your question instead of asking whether anyone here can help you. |
| 14:52:20 | tja | I'm sure the people here can help, I was just wondering whether questions should go to the discussion board or somewhere else... anyway, here goes: |
| 14:52:54 | tja | I have a long type name that I can't be bothered to keep typing out. What is the idiomatic way of making a short version? |
| 14:53:15 | tja | I thought of using a macro, but that would seem to need a () to trigger the macro... |
| 14:53:40 | tja | Although I'm not totally sure about that; I seem to be able to use some expression macros without needing a () |
| 14:53:45 | yglukhov | type MyType = MyTypeWithALongName |
| 14:53:47 | yglukhov | ? |
| 14:53:53 | tja | Ok, thanks. |
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| 14:54:04 | yglukhov | np |
| 14:54:37 | yglukhov | dom96: could you please take a look at my question on the forum? Its mostly addressed to you i suppose ;) |
| 14:55:39 | tja | Out of curiosity, under what circumstances do I not need a () to trigger a macro? |
| 14:56:31 | yglukhov | tja: if you're using a macro with a dot-notation. e.g: myObject.myMacroThatPretendsToBeAProperty |
| 14:57:18 | yglukhov | also there's a command syntax. e.g: myMacro arg1, arg2, arg3 |
| 14:57:18 | dom96_ | yglukhov: currently in a lecture, but will try answer ASAP |
| 14:57:31 | yglukhov | ok thanx |
| 14:58:11 | tja | Ok, makes sense. I guess that dot-notation doesn't apply to type declarations, hence my confusion. TVM. |
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| 15:01:33 | dom96_ | yglukhov: btw any ETA on videos/photos of the Nim conference/workshop? Araq showed me some photos already and it looked awesome, wish I could have gone. |
| 15:01:50 | tja | Hmm... actually, I'm not sure I totally understand. I declared a macro 'macro myNumber : expr = 10' then used it as 'foo(myNumber)'. Does that count as dot notation? |
| 15:02:46 | dom96_ | tja: `myNumber.foo` would be dot notation. |
| 15:03:33 | yglukhov | dom96: that doesn't depend on me, but on our translators, so can't promise. but i beleive it should happen soon. have some patience ;) |
| 15:04:00 | tja | Ok, but foo has the explicit invocation with (), and myNumber doesn't, but the macro gets invoked and the result is effectively calling foo(10) |
| 15:04:35 | yglukhov | tja: how foo is defined? |
| 15:04:54 | tja | 'macro myNumber : expr = 10' |
| 15:04:59 | tja | Oopps |
| 15:05:20 | tja | foo is actually the function 'newSeq' |
| 15:05:45 | yglukhov | could you cite it please in nim, and not in English? ;) |
| 15:06:56 | yglukhov | actually, i'm not sure if 'macro myNumber : expr = 10' is a valid definition. i've been thinking that macros should return ast nodes. can anyone please explain it? =) |
| 15:08:10 | tja | Erm... sorry, not sure what you mean there, and sorry for not being clear. The call actually made using the macro is 'newSeq[float64](myNumber)', using newSeq from the system module. |
| 15:08:45 | yglukhov | tja: and you're right. somehow your macro gets called without (). can't really explain that =( |
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| 15:09:12 | tja | yglukhov: Ok, thanks. And thanks for the warning about dodgy macro definitions, I'll try to avoid that ;-) |
| 15:09:41 | yglukhov | well maybe its me who doesn't know something =) |
| 15:10:27 | tja | yglukhov: would it be helpful to package and example and post it somewhere? |
| 15:10:45 | tja | (I can make a small example) |
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| 15:12:47 | yglukhov | tja: imho, you could submit a pr to nim documentation. if your pr gets rejected, then you get official explanation of it ;) |
| 15:13:07 | sunnyawake | how to use channel to send msg to a specific thread? |
| 15:13:26 | tja | Ok, TVM, How do I submit a PR? |
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| 15:16:16 | yglukhov | tja: it's just regular github flow. pretty easy, but not a topic for irc. https://help.github.com/articles/using-pull-requests/ |
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| 15:16:46 | yglukhov | tja: nim project is https://github.com/nim-lang/nim |
| 15:16:52 | tja | Ah, ok, understood. TVM, TTFN. |
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| 18:50:41 | Varriount-Laptop | >_> |
| 18:51:03 | desophos | <_< |
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| 19:19:45 | desophos | did someone say Atom has a Nim plugin? |
| 19:21:38 | federico3 | desophos: look at the forum |
| 19:22:38 | desophos | ah, thanks federico3 |
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| 21:46:16 | desophos | i'm looking at http://nim-lang.org/docs/nims.html but i don't really understand how to write/use a .nims file to define build commands |
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| 22:28:44 | mat4 | hello |
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| 22:35:41 | BlueProtoman | Hello |
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| 22:36:34 | ephja | morning, or whatever |
| 22:36:48 | BlueProtoman | Morning, sure, let's go with that |
| 22:37:24 | julian37 | morning |
| 22:37:33 | ephja | alright |
| 22:37:39 | BlueProtoman | (It's not morning in New York) |
| 22:38:35 | BlueProtoman | So, plugging this proposal to see if anyone wants to help me port an ECS to Nim over a few weeks http://forum.nim-lang.org/t/1806 |
| 22:40:14 | mat4 | what means ECS ? |
| 22:41:24 | BlueProtoman | Entity component system. Instead of modeling your game objects with class trees (e.g. Goomba extends Enemy extends Sprite extends GameObject), you model them as collections of components that can be added and removed as necessary (Physics, Sprite, Sound, Health) |
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| 22:42:34 | BlueProtoman | And these components contain only data. Systems are where the game logic takes place, and they operate on entities with a particular set of components (e.g. a PhysicsSystem would operate on all entities with a Physics component, a SpriteRenderSystem would operate on all entities with a Sprite and a Transform component, etc.) |
| 22:43:23 | BlueProtoman | They're very good at modeling systems with structurally heterogeneous (made of different things) or constantly-changing entities, which games have lots of. |
| 22:43:44 | mat4 | I've found a minor bug: Variables of a range type with scale 1..n are initialized with zero (which lead to an out-of-range error if used as index) |
| 22:43:51 | BlueProtoman | Also, they're really designer-friendly, because you can just load a game object from a JSON file where all the components are specified |
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| 22:47:59 | mat4 | BlueProtoman: Reads like a relative database approach |
| 22:48:33 | BlueProtoman | mat4: I've heard similar things said of ECS (but I don't know databases very well so I don't know what to make of it) |
| 22:49:00 | ephja | https://github.com/fowlmouth/nimlibs/blob/master/fowltek/entitty.nim |
| 22:51:59 | mat4 | Wikipedia has a good article about it |
| 22:52:24 | BlueProtoman | ephja: I've seen that (and its successor entoody). Probably a good starting point, but nowhere near polished or featureful |
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| 22:53:43 | desophos | i would love to help but i doubt i'm proficient enough |
| 22:53:55 | BlueProtoman | desophos: In what, Nim or ECS? |
| 22:53:58 | desophos | both! |
| 22:54:03 | desophos | er, neither |
| 22:54:28 | BlueProtoman | TBH I'm still new to Nim, but I'm familiar with ECSes |
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| 22:56:15 | desophos | i understand ECS but am currently in the process of writing my first one |
| 22:56:26 | desophos | and have never used one |
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| 22:59:34 | desophos | but i'll star/watch the repo if you're going to put it online |
| 22:59:39 | desophos | and see if i can help |
| 23:00:19 | desophos | although idk about porting |
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| 23:01:02 | desophos | well, my first real one; i've attempted to write ones before but ended up abandoning the games |
| 23:01:16 | desophos | it is yet to be seen whether i'll abandon this one :) |
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| 23:11:31 | BlueProtoman | I think porting would be easier than writing a new one, mostly because we can take advantage of proven designs instead of fumbling around in the dark |
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| 23:21:11 | desophos | sure, i just find porting more difficult and boring :D |
| 23:23:29 | mat4 | hmm, fumbling in the dark can be enlightement of efficience where common sense result from blind death of inspiration |
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| 23:26:18 | BlueProtoman | Sure. I'm not against experimenting with new ways to do an old thing. My sights, however, are set on rousing interest on a practical solution (i.e. leveraging a proven design), and then contributing to that solution. |
| 23:27:52 | mat4 | and you want to write a Game or want to offer a component for game development ? |
| 23:28:37 | BlueProtoman | For now, just port an ECS to Nim, and ensure it's polished and documented. Game dev is purported to be a major use case for Nim, but I think a lack of a good ECS for it is holding it back from that. |
| 23:29:06 | desophos | i think lack of any game dev frameworks is holding it back :p |
| 23:29:44 | BlueProtoman | No, we have some. |
| 23:30:15 | BlueProtoman | Not big ones, but they're there. |
| 23:30:16 | desophos | such as? |
| 23:30:32 | BlueProtoman | We have Allegro and SDL wrappers, for instance |
| 23:31:01 | BlueProtoman | And OpenGL (not a game framework, but still important) |
| 23:31:55 | BlueProtoman | We also apparently have ludens, nimgame, horde3d, and sfml |
| 23:35:39 | mat4 | does one know how to implement an object constructor (these kind of routines which get called automatical by object invocation) ? |
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| 23:40:30 | desophos | mat4, you'll have to be more specific |
| 23:40:49 | desophos | BlueProtoman, most of those haven't been updated in a while |
| 23:48:28 | desophos | as in, no longer maintained |
| 23:49:05 | BlueProtoman | desophos: True. However, at least they're there (and mostly wrappers anyway, so easy to update). We have practically *nothing* for an entity system. |
| 23:49:47 | desophos | true, the engine aspirants (nimgame, ludens, rod) are lacking |
| 23:50:46 | BlueProtoman | A proper ECS makes it easier to put the pieces together anyway; OpenGL for rendering, portaudio for sound, etc. |
| 23:50:53 | desophos | yep |
| 23:51:49 | BlueProtoman | So I'm not concerned about the relative dearth of game frameworks; an ECS is more critical, largely because it needs to be Nim-centric (i.e. not just a wrapper) |
| 23:53:33 | desophos | yeah, it would be cool |
| 23:54:37 | BlueProtoman | The more people I can get to think so, the more potential contributors we have for one. |
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