<< 18-04-2017 >>

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00:04:29FromGitter<Varriount> ldlework: I hope this works as an apology: https://glot.io/snippets/ep1d0uffua
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00:05:03ldleworkVarriount, that's pretty helpful yes.
00:05:59FromGitter<Varriount> You might want to test that out with implementations from various imported procedures.
00:06:22FromGitter<Varriount> Like, what happens if `foo` is implemented in two modules that have been imported.
00:06:51ldleworkVarriount still need a way to get all defined names though.
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00:08:09FromGitter<Varriount> You mean, all the names of all the procedures ever defined?
00:08:42ldleworkYeah exactly
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00:09:00ldleworkAnd types
00:09:30FromGitter<Varriount> So, you essentially need access to a giant table containing all procedures and types.
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00:09:51ldleworkYes, with the right algorithm you can resolve dependencies for all types that are satisfiable
00:10:06ldleworkBut usually you'll cull that down based on naming conventions
00:10:28FromGitter<Varriount> Hrm.
00:10:42ldleworkI know it sounds crazy but it sounds like a fascinating challenge
00:10:52FromGitter<Varriount> Can't the user input anything?
00:10:55ldleworkThere are IoC containers for basically every language
00:11:13ldleworkI've never needed one but just as a Thing it sounds quite interesting.
00:11:18FromGitter<Varriount> The only way I know of to do this is to add a plugin to the compiler.
00:11:21ldleworkVarriount, what odo you mean?
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00:11:41ldleworkVarriount another way is
00:11:55ldleworkLets say at some point the alg sees, oh this constructor takes a Foo
00:12:11ldleworkDo I know how to make a Foo? Hmm nope.
00:12:24ldleworkAnd then it can do Foo + "Constructor" or something less silly
00:12:30ldleworkand then try to find that symbol and hope it exists
00:12:47ldleworkor rather, expect it to exist in order to satisfy the graph, throwing a helpful error if not
00:12:57ldleworkso you don't really need a full list
00:14:26FromGitter<Varriount> Well, as long as you have a symbol name, you can look up the implementations
00:14:31ldlework+1
00:15:13FromGitter<Varriount> If you need to just iterate through the entire symbol table, you'll need to create a compiler plugin
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00:40:16krux02Well maybe if you can convince the community, you can get a feature in the language that exposes the symbol table in some way in the macros module
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00:55:08FromGitter<Varriount> ldlework: I guess, if you don't have the symbol, what criteria are you going to use to select a procedure?
00:55:27ldleworkVarriount, I mentioned convention over configuration a few times
00:57:00ldlework"New" + type_name
00:57:02ldleworketc
00:57:44FromGitter<Varriount> ldlework: Can't you just generate and bind the symbol then?
00:57:59ldleworkYeah that's what we said above
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00:58:14ldleworkldlework │ And then it can do Foo + "Constructor" or something less silly
00:58:20ldleworkFromGitter │ <Varriount> Well, as long as you have a symbol name, you can look up the implementations
00:58:22ldleworketc
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00:58:51ldleworkI think the auto-wiring situation looks hopeful for nim
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01:02:28krux02ldlework: I didn't follow the entire discussion, do you mean with auto wire automatic (de)serialization
01:02:58krux02because for that I would try to avoid calling constructors
01:03:37krux02but sorry I have no idea what you were talking about I probably shouldn't comment
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01:07:38ldleworkhehe
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04:44:21ftsfhmm, game works in release mode but has mysterious behaviour in debug mode =\
04:44:34ftsfi'm used to the opposite
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07:22:57FromGitter<mratsim> @Varriount After a good night sleep I may have found an elegant solution. Is it possible to have a seq shallow copy if both hands of the assignment are “let” variables and deep copy if one or the other at least is mutable. ⏎ ⏎ I think that would be pretty neat. Please tell me there is a pragma. (otherwise I can submit a Feature request)
07:23:56FromGitter<mratsim> “result” would have to be flagged mutable I guess
07:26:52FromGitter<Varriount> @mratsim Why not just mark the sequence as shallow and do a manual copy to a new sequence?
07:29:22FromGitter<mratsim> If there is no pragma, and benchmarks shows that memory is an issue I will try to write a macro that detect let vs var assignment and shallow/deep. The idea is to automate that so I don’t forget to copy a value by default at the beginning of a function for example
07:29:55FromGitter<mratsim> same thing for end users
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07:45:20FromGitter<Varriount> You would have to ask @araq on copying semantics with `let` and `var`. I'm fairly sure strings and sequences aren't copied when assigning to 'let'
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08:56:02FromGitter<Bennyelg> What do you say about the Nim book
08:56:07FromGitter<Bennyelg> I consider buy a copy
08:56:23euantorIt's pretty good from what I've read of it
08:57:26FromGitter<Bennyelg> This is the only book around and Learning from web document is pretty hard since there is no enough information.
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09:17:40FromGitter<Varriount> Pull requests for documentation ate always appreciated.
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09:31:51FromGitter<Varriount> @Bennyelg how are your projects going?
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09:46:05ArrrrCyclic dependency begone
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10:32:50FromGitter<Bennyelg> @Varriount Hey, pretty well I guess I still have a lot to understand
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10:42:21FromGitter<mratsim> @Varriount I got the answer straight from @Araq here: https://forum.nim-lang.org/t/1793/5 Quote "Parameter passing doesn't copy, var x = foo() doesn't copy but moves let x = y doesn't copy but moves, var x = y does copy but I can use shallowCopy instead of = for that. I can also call shallow on a string and then it's not copied …"
10:52:04FromGitter<Varriount> @mratsim
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10:53:46FromGitter<Varriount> @mratsim I still wish nim's strings had been immutable. :P
10:54:35Araqsure so that you cannot even try to optimize your code. makes sense.
10:54:39FromGitter<mratsim> Well, I think immutable strings in Python and Haskell generated a lot of ddiscussions about performance ;).
10:55:26Araqanother benchmark, another program where the first thing you throw away is "immutable state". it's against how the hardware works.
10:55:39FromGitter<Varriount> Araq: With immutable strings, but mutable sequences, you could just switch between the two.
10:56:12FromGitter<Varriount> Need to construct a string? Convert a sequence.
10:56:17Araqthe "switch" then causes the copy.
10:56:34FromGitter<Varriount> Or makes the sequence invalid/empty.
10:56:35Araqor else you can get the same with shallow(s) already
10:56:51zachcarterVarriount: this is the track I was thinking about using, although it has a more restrictive license than the link you shared
10:56:52zachcarterhttps://modarchive.org/index.php?request=view_by_moduleid&query=32787
10:59:02FromGitter<Varriount> Zachcarter: You might try contacting the author for a different license.
10:59:10zachcarterwas thinking the same thing
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11:04:40FromGitter<Varriount> zachcarter: That's a really complex module. The file size is usually in the kilobytes
11:04:48zachcarter:P
11:04:51zachcarterI think it sounds pretty cool
11:06:21zachcarterI have a feeling it’s going to be difficult to get in touch with them but I’m going to try
11:07:17FromGitter<Varriount> Also, many artists on that site seem to northern European
11:07:33zachcarteryeah this guy says Slovenia demo
11:19:07zachcartere-mail address bounced
11:19:11zachcarterjust going to use it and give him credit
11:19:35zachcarterwhich judging by the license on that site is already more than I have to do
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11:44:02FromGitter<Varriount> zachcarter: Based on the text, this track might have been made in the 2000s
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12:19:20FromGitter<Bennyelg> Nim for writing ETLs good idea or bad?
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12:32:01krux02is there an equivalent for macros.expectKind in compiler/ast/Pnode?
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12:42:31FromGitter<Varriount> @Bennyelg What's an ETL?
12:45:59FromGitter<Bennyelg> ETL stands for Extract Transform Load
12:46:59FromGitter<Bennyelg> Lets say I have A mission to run Something every X minutes and Extract Something from Source X -> Doing Some transformation with the extracted data (if at all) and load it to some place else or the same place but different
12:50:05FromGitter<stisa> krux02 , not sure, but the implementation is one line : https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/blob/master/lib/core/macros.nim#L380
12:50:40FromGitter<stisa> or just use doAssert
12:52:12FromGitter<Varriount> @Bennyelg Isn't that what most short-running programs do?
12:53:08FromGitter<Bennyelg> I guess but not sure.
13:12:12krux02well I now used illFormedAst
13:13:15AraqillFormedAst shouldn't be used :P
13:14:12Araqproduce a localError(...) and repair the AST
13:14:17FromGitter<Bennyelg> Hey Anyone knows what are the good linear algebra, optimization, and differential equation libraries
13:14:35krux02well I just to it temporarily to get something that I at least detected the errer case properly instead of just crashing somewhere
13:14:46Araqand beware of the control flow
13:14:58krux02does illFormedAst return?
13:15:48krux02A just want something for my else branch that I hope never happens and when it does it means it is incomplete
13:16:46krux02another question, is there something like std::declval from c++
13:17:03Araqit doesn't return.
13:17:07AraqillFormedAstLocal does return.
13:17:30krux02ok
13:19:29Araqno idea what std::declval does
13:20:02krux02it creates an expression of a type in the ast without actually creating a variable of that type
13:20:33krux02var tmp: A; offsetof(tmp.a)
13:20:39Araqtype() ?
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13:20:48krux02offsetof(declval(A).a)
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13:21:01Araqoh what I call a "witness" construction
13:21:19krux02I don't know how you call it
13:21:23krux02it is new in c++
13:21:39krux02I can look for it
13:22:06AraqI argued we need it for concepts instead of the messy "typedesc[T] is turned to T" rule for concepts but zahary felt the spec was too easy to implement and we need more rules
13:22:10krux02hmm no witness in the index
13:22:36Araqwell it doesn't exist.
13:22:47krux02well I could use it
13:23:00Araqtemplate witness(x): untyped = var v: type(x); v
13:23:42krux02well at the moment I hope it solves the problem I have
13:23:57krux02I created my offsetof in a way, that it requires a dot expression
13:24:30krux02but I put a version in system.nim where offsetof is implemented with a template that does what I just did
13:24:45krux02var tmp: A; offestOfDotExpr(tmp.member)
13:25:04krux02the problem is, now the compiler complains that I can't construct that value at compile time
13:25:39krux02I am not sure if the tmp is the problem, I just guess it is
13:26:15Araqpossilbe, if the 'A' uses .importc
13:26:58krux02well in my case it doesn't
13:30:06krux02and I guess I can live with that limitation, but then I wonder why i can't get the result at compile time
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13:45:53PMunchDid this guy ever get help: https://www.reddit.com/r/nim/comments/64knh7/new_to_nim_any_advice_for_making_a_simple_game/
13:46:22zielmicha_is devel branch supposed to work? e.g. should I file bugs if something doesn't work?
13:47:34demi-zielmicha_: when in doubt, file bugs; they can always be closed
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13:53:54def-PMunch: no comments sounds like no
13:54:20PMunchI was just wondering if he had come through here and gotten in answered
14:07:20FromGitter<Bennyelg> concat string only with & ?
14:07:30FromGitter<Bennyelg> I cant do something like: open file. (${})".format(name)
14:08:12def-Bennyelg: https://nim-lang.org/docs/strutils.html#format,string,varargs[string,]
14:09:31def-import strutils. echo "($#)".format(name)
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14:09:41PMunchdef-, hookrace.net is suddenly full of certification errors..
14:10:03def-PMunch: not for me, that's weird
14:10:40PMunchNET::ERR_CERT_AUTHORITY_INVALID
14:11:22FromGitter<Bennyelg> Fantastic Work :D
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14:20:46FromGitter<BotWhisperer> Tried to register for forum -- failed captcha -- 5 + 850 = 855? what?
14:24:51PMunchBotWhisperer, are you surprised by that answer?
14:25:06PMunchOr surprised that it wasn't recognized :P
14:30:33euantordef-: StartCom have been removed from Chrome's SSL trust store due to some dodgy dealings, which would cause SSL errors in Chrome
14:30:52euantorhttps://security.googleblog.com/2016/10/distrusting-wosign-and-startcom.html
14:31:06def-euantor: yep, figured that out as well. switching to letsencrypt as they support winxp mostly now (and i just forgot to switch that domain a few months agao)
14:31:16def-so i thought i was on letsencrypt already
14:31:32euantorI had the same issue on one of my sites last month, caught me by surprise too
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14:32:11euantorVarious SSL test tools still report everything as being perfectly fine, so I had to install Chrome to realise what was happening
14:32:50def-yeah, i heard about that happening because of the shenanigans startcom did
14:33:53FromGitter<BotWhisperer> surprised that it wasn't recognized... I mean, it's right, right? :)
14:34:02euantorI believe Symantec have been up to some dodgy stuff too, but they obviously have a bigger market cap right now so pulling their root certificates would cause more problems
14:34:23euantorBotWhisperer: SOmetimes the forum gets confused, you will have to try registering with a different browser
14:35:02euantorI've got an open Pull Request against nimforum to remove the custom captcha and use NoCaptcha instead: https://github.com/nim-lang/nimforum/pull/98
14:38:27FromGitter<BotWhisperer> So far -- Brave - failed, Chrome - failed, Edge - failed. Perhaps, I'll have to ask here... ?
14:40:25euantorI'm not sure what would cause that to be honest, perhaps @dom96 can shed some light
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15:36:46dom96yeah, we need to fix the damn captcha. As far as I can tell cloudflare is caching the captcha images
15:37:04dom96You can try forcing a refresh (Ctrl+Shift+F5)
15:39:29euantorIf it is CloudFlare, surely the easy fix is to add a Page Rule?
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15:41:06FromGitter<Bennyelg> what is wrong with this code? ⏎ ⏎ ```code paste, see link``` [https://gitter.im/nim-lang/Nim?at=58f63395d32c6f2f09195e8f]
15:41:18FromGitter<Bennyelg> .echo at the end.
15:41:59FromGitter<Bennyelg> oh I needed to import future :smile:
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15:50:49chatter29hey guys
15:50:52chatter29allah is doing
15:50:59chatter29sun is not doing allah is doing
15:51:00chatter29to accept Islam say that i bear witness that there is no deity worthy of worship except Allah and Muhammad peace be upon him is his slave and messenger
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15:51:46krux02dom96: you asked me to inform you when someone is asking for a ban, here is a spammer just arrived
15:52:09krux02ok he just let again
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15:58:52Tiberiumwhy you kicked chatter29 :( I've saw same spam in #pypy channel like 2 months ago
15:59:07Tiberiummaybe this bot owner is trolling programmers
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16:13:53FromGitter<Bennyelg> How to iterate over table items
16:13:55FromGitter<Bennyelg> key, value
16:13:58dom96chatter29 wasn't kicked
16:14:16dom96Bennyelg: pairs() IIRC
16:15:12Tiberiumdom96, ah lol
16:15:41FromGitter<Bennyelg> what is wrong :/
16:15:49FromGitter<Bennyelg> ```code paste, see link``` [https://gitter.im/nim-lang/Nim?at=58f63bb808c00c092a9173c8]
16:15:57FromGitter<Bennyelg> ```code paste, see link``` [https://gitter.im/nim-lang/Nim?at=58f63bc0bdf4acc1126fa76f]
16:16:05FromGitter<TiberiumPY> void?
16:16:11FromGitter<TiberiumPY> you can omit that
16:16:18FromGitter<TiberiumPY> but maybe it's not the main problem
16:16:29FromGitter<Bennyelg> its not the problem
16:16:35FromGitter<TiberiumPY> ah wait
16:16:53FromGitter<Bennyelg> oh fix
16:17:02FromGitter<TiberiumPY> you've fixed that?
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16:17:07FromGitter<Bennyelg> yes
16:17:10FromGitter<Bennyelg> thanks.
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16:26:53FromGitter<Bennyelg> Hey, Do we have any Sort by key? for example I want to sort by the Table value
16:29:09Tiberiummaybe you'll need OrderedTable?
16:29:43TiberiumBennyelg: https://nim-lang.org/docs/tables.html#sort,OrderedTable[A,B],proc(,)
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16:33:08FromGitter<TiberiumPY> @Bennyelg and you can always use github search to see usages of this proc :)
16:33:30FromGitter<TiberiumPY> maybe
16:33:35FromGitter<Bennyelg> mm :D
16:35:51FromGitter<mratsim> btw @Bennyelg you don’t need to call pairs explicitly to iterate by key, value. you can do `for i,j in iterator_with_pairs_implemented:`
16:36:59FromGitter<mratsim> ALso for linear algebra, what do you want to do? You can check `linalg`on unicredit github repo
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16:46:42FromGitter<Bennyelg> @mratsim Thanks. ⏎ I try to sort orderedTable by value
16:46:59FromGitter<Bennyelg> If I use this: sort(result, system.cmp) ⏎ I get it sorted by value.
16:47:03FromGitter<Bennyelg> by key*
16:54:49FromGitter<mratsim> also for differential equation, if you need to automatically compute gradients, you can check my library: https://github.com/mratsim/nim-rmad. It only works for scalars right now but I hope to generalise to matrices and vectors in the next 2 weeks
16:56:03FromGitter<mratsim> check the examples folder for gradient descent examples with basic Support Vector Machines and neural networks
17:17:37krux02what does ``isObjectWithTypeFieldPredicate`` do?
17:18:16krux02or better said, what is a type field predicate?
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17:51:04ldleworkhello
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18:16:02FromGitter<Bennyelg> sort orderedTable/Table by value , any idea?
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19:33:51subsetparkCreate a new table from the ordered values?
19:34:33FromGitter<Bennyelg> ordered values is ordered by key not by value
19:36:24subsetparkYes, what I mean is - create a sequence of the pairs, order the sequence the way you like, then create a new table out of the sequence
19:38:37FromGitter<Bennyelg> I got an Idea
19:38:41FromGitter<Bennyelg> How do I remove element from Table? by key
19:39:05subsetpark`del` - but it's O(n)
19:39:31FromGitter<Bennyelg> its Table! :( why its O(n)
19:40:42subsetparkBecause it's ordered :)
19:42:02FromGitter<Bennyelg> Any regular table ?
19:50:24subsetparkHere's normal table deletion: https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/blob/a81247dcbe95eaac8338e478d8837cbcf57a0f3e/lib/pure/collections/tableimpl.nim#L123
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20:03:40FromGitter<Bennyelg> Cheers
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20:11:30Tiberiumguys, is there any math expression eval libraries for Nim?
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21:05:16zielmicha_I've just posted RFC about improvements to I/O interfaces in stdlib (https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/issues/5728). Comments welcome.
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21:36:40FromGitter<Bennyelg> How Do I mssure time of my program exection?
21:41:52dom96Have you guys taken a look at https://nim-lang.org lately? ;)
21:42:27FromGitter<Bennyelg> Wow
21:42:34FromGitter<Bennyelg> When they changed to site!
21:42:38FromGitter<Bennyelg> looks Great now
21:43:18FromGitter<RSDuck> the new site looks great, but I will miss the slideshow with code examples
21:46:01FromGitter<stisa> dom96 : nice! btw, snake doesn't load for me, I think because you are trying to load it from a domain without https ?
21:47:00dom96damn
21:47:09dom96I thought that might happen
21:47:26dom96I need to move my domain to SSL
21:47:32dom96oh well, for now i'll move it to nim-lang.org
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22:07:24dom96sadly no server.
22:07:32dom96because it also requires SSL :\
22:09:52dom96But it's still playable without the server :)
22:11:58FromGitter<mratsim> now many providers give you Let’s Encrypt optionwithout too much hassle
22:17:29demi-definitely would recommend using letsencrypt
22:19:29dom96we use cloudflare
22:19:55dom96but for websockets it's not just about getting the certificate, the library has to support it too :\
22:21:23demi-yeah that is true
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22:41:47federico3Nim on HN again https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14143521
22:47:08FromGitter<Varriount> dom96: Wow! Nice look
22:47:34FromGitter<Varriount> The style reminds me of python.org
22:48:17dom96:D
22:48:43FromGitter<Varriount> And it's only 1.7 Mb - No JS monstrosity!
22:50:00dom96Credit goes to Calinou as well. I modified it rather heavily, but without his initial design it would look nowhere as good.
22:50:06dom96I suck at picking colors :)
22:51:35FromGitter<Varriount> https://nim-lang.org/sponsors.html
22:51:38FromGitter<Varriount> :P
22:51:57dom96oh yeah, if you want to be in the Top Sponsors you'll need to give me a logo of some sort
22:52:02dom96I guess I can just use your avatar though
22:52:40FromGitter<Varriount> I'll leave that up to you. I don't mind the way things stand.
22:53:07dom96On the other hand it might look more professional to have companies there only.
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22:53:58Calinouhi
22:54:05Calinoudom96: I forgot to join this channel after migrating my Quassel :P
22:54:07Calinousorry
22:54:22CalinouI've seen that you've done a lot of work on the website, great :)
22:54:32federico3It's really nice
22:54:57dom96Yeah, been working on it a LOT over Easter
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22:55:15dom96Disappointed that I couldn't get my game to work completely but oh well.
22:55:18CalinouI have an uni project to finish this week and next week, then I start my 8-week-long internship
22:55:27Calinouso I can't really help right now
22:56:17dom96no problem, help out when you've got time :)
22:59:48ldleworkI have a confession to make
22:59:58ldleworkI've been writing TypeScript
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23:08:03FromGitter<Varriount> le gasp!
23:08:23FromGitter<Varriount> ldlework: I think you've broken my heart.
23:09:08FromGitter<Varriount> dom96: Does Nim really get submitted to the front page every month?
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23:17:14dom96https://news.ycombinator.com/from?site=nim-lang.org
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23:18:07FromGitter<Varriount> Eh, more like every 2-3 months.
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23:19:59dom96yep
23:22:00dom96I must head to sleep, think you guys could hold down the fort on HN? :)
23:23:04FromGitter<Varriount> I'll see what I can do.
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23:36:10FromGitter<Varriount> dom96: Can you change the title to indicate that there's a new website?
23:36:38ldleworkthe website really does look nice
23:36:53ldleworkdom96: great job