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00:04:29 | FromGitter | <Varriount> ldlework: I hope this works as an apology: https://glot.io/snippets/ep1d0uffua |
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00:05:03 | ldlework | Varriount, that's pretty helpful yes. |
00:05:59 | FromGitter | <Varriount> You might want to test that out with implementations from various imported procedures. |
00:06:22 | FromGitter | <Varriount> Like, what happens if `foo` is implemented in two modules that have been imported. |
00:06:51 | ldlework | Varriount still need a way to get all defined names though. |
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00:08:09 | FromGitter | <Varriount> You mean, all the names of all the procedures ever defined? |
00:08:42 | ldlework | Yeah exactly |
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00:09:00 | ldlework | And types |
00:09:30 | FromGitter | <Varriount> So, you essentially need access to a giant table containing all procedures and types. |
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00:09:51 | ldlework | Yes, with the right algorithm you can resolve dependencies for all types that are satisfiable |
00:10:06 | ldlework | But usually you'll cull that down based on naming conventions |
00:10:28 | FromGitter | <Varriount> Hrm. |
00:10:42 | ldlework | I know it sounds crazy but it sounds like a fascinating challenge |
00:10:52 | FromGitter | <Varriount> Can't the user input anything? |
00:10:55 | ldlework | There are IoC containers for basically every language |
00:11:13 | ldlework | I've never needed one but just as a Thing it sounds quite interesting. |
00:11:18 | FromGitter | <Varriount> The only way I know of to do this is to add a plugin to the compiler. |
00:11:21 | ldlework | Varriount, what odo you mean? |
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00:11:41 | ldlework | Varriount another way is |
00:11:55 | ldlework | Lets say at some point the alg sees, oh this constructor takes a Foo |
00:12:11 | ldlework | Do I know how to make a Foo? Hmm nope. |
00:12:24 | ldlework | And then it can do Foo + "Constructor" or something less silly |
00:12:30 | ldlework | and then try to find that symbol and hope it exists |
00:12:47 | ldlework | or rather, expect it to exist in order to satisfy the graph, throwing a helpful error if not |
00:12:57 | ldlework | so you don't really need a full list |
00:14:26 | FromGitter | <Varriount> Well, as long as you have a symbol name, you can look up the implementations |
00:14:31 | ldlework | +1 |
00:15:13 | FromGitter | <Varriount> If you need to just iterate through the entire symbol table, you'll need to create a compiler plugin |
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00:40:16 | krux02 | Well maybe if you can convince the community, you can get a feature in the language that exposes the symbol table in some way in the macros module |
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00:55:08 | FromGitter | <Varriount> ldlework: I guess, if you don't have the symbol, what criteria are you going to use to select a procedure? |
00:55:27 | ldlework | Varriount, I mentioned convention over configuration a few times |
00:57:00 | ldlework | "New" + type_name |
00:57:02 | ldlework | etc |
00:57:44 | FromGitter | <Varriount> ldlework: Can't you just generate and bind the symbol then? |
00:57:59 | ldlework | Yeah that's what we said above |
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00:58:14 | ldlework | ldlework │ And then it can do Foo + "Constructor" or something less silly |
00:58:20 | ldlework | FromGitter │ <Varriount> Well, as long as you have a symbol name, you can look up the implementations |
00:58:22 | ldlework | etc |
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00:58:51 | ldlework | I think the auto-wiring situation looks hopeful for nim |
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01:02:28 | krux02 | ldlework: I didn't follow the entire discussion, do you mean with auto wire automatic (de)serialization |
01:02:58 | krux02 | because for that I would try to avoid calling constructors |
01:03:37 | krux02 | but sorry I have no idea what you were talking about I probably shouldn't comment |
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01:07:38 | ldlework | hehe |
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04:44:21 | ftsf | hmm, game works in release mode but has mysterious behaviour in debug mode =\ |
04:44:34 | ftsf | i'm used to the opposite |
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07:22:57 | FromGitter | <mratsim> @Varriount After a good night sleep I may have found an elegant solution. Is it possible to have a seq shallow copy if both hands of the assignment are “let” variables and deep copy if one or the other at least is mutable. ⏎ ⏎ I think that would be pretty neat. Please tell me there is a pragma. (otherwise I can submit a Feature request) |
07:23:56 | FromGitter | <mratsim> “result” would have to be flagged mutable I guess |
07:26:52 | FromGitter | <Varriount> @mratsim Why not just mark the sequence as shallow and do a manual copy to a new sequence? |
07:29:22 | FromGitter | <mratsim> If there is no pragma, and benchmarks shows that memory is an issue I will try to write a macro that detect let vs var assignment and shallow/deep. The idea is to automate that so I don’t forget to copy a value by default at the beginning of a function for example |
07:29:55 | FromGitter | <mratsim> same thing for end users |
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07:45:20 | FromGitter | <Varriount> You would have to ask @araq on copying semantics with `let` and `var`. I'm fairly sure strings and sequences aren't copied when assigning to 'let' |
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08:56:02 | FromGitter | <Bennyelg> What do you say about the Nim book |
08:56:07 | FromGitter | <Bennyelg> I consider buy a copy |
08:56:23 | euantor | It's pretty good from what I've read of it |
08:57:26 | FromGitter | <Bennyelg> This is the only book around and Learning from web document is pretty hard since there is no enough information. |
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09:17:40 | FromGitter | <Varriount> Pull requests for documentation ate always appreciated. |
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09:31:51 | FromGitter | <Varriount> @Bennyelg how are your projects going? |
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09:46:05 | Arrrr | Cyclic dependency begone |
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10:32:50 | FromGitter | <Bennyelg> @Varriount Hey, pretty well I guess I still have a lot to understand |
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10:42:21 | FromGitter | <mratsim> @Varriount I got the answer straight from @Araq here: https://forum.nim-lang.org/t/1793/5 Quote "Parameter passing doesn't copy, var x = foo() doesn't copy but moves let x = y doesn't copy but moves, var x = y does copy but I can use shallowCopy instead of = for that. I can also call shallow on a string and then it's not copied …" |
10:52:04 | FromGitter | <Varriount> @mratsim |
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10:53:46 | FromGitter | <Varriount> @mratsim I still wish nim's strings had been immutable. :P |
10:54:35 | Araq | sure so that you cannot even try to optimize your code. makes sense. |
10:54:39 | FromGitter | <mratsim> Well, I think immutable strings in Python and Haskell generated a lot of ddiscussions about performance ;). |
10:55:26 | Araq | another benchmark, another program where the first thing you throw away is "immutable state". it's against how the hardware works. |
10:55:39 | FromGitter | <Varriount> Araq: With immutable strings, but mutable sequences, you could just switch between the two. |
10:56:12 | FromGitter | <Varriount> Need to construct a string? Convert a sequence. |
10:56:17 | Araq | the "switch" then causes the copy. |
10:56:34 | FromGitter | <Varriount> Or makes the sequence invalid/empty. |
10:56:35 | Araq | or else you can get the same with shallow(s) already |
10:56:51 | zachcarter | Varriount: this is the track I was thinking about using, although it has a more restrictive license than the link you shared |
10:56:52 | zachcarter | https://modarchive.org/index.php?request=view_by_moduleid&query=32787 |
10:59:02 | FromGitter | <Varriount> Zachcarter: You might try contacting the author for a different license. |
10:59:10 | zachcarter | was thinking the same thing |
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11:04:40 | FromGitter | <Varriount> zachcarter: That's a really complex module. The file size is usually in the kilobytes |
11:04:48 | zachcarter | :P |
11:04:51 | zachcarter | I think it sounds pretty cool |
11:06:21 | zachcarter | I have a feeling it’s going to be difficult to get in touch with them but I’m going to try |
11:07:17 | FromGitter | <Varriount> Also, many artists on that site seem to northern European |
11:07:33 | zachcarter | yeah this guy says Slovenia demo |
11:19:07 | zachcarter | e-mail address bounced |
11:19:11 | zachcarter | just going to use it and give him credit |
11:19:35 | zachcarter | which judging by the license on that site is already more than I have to do |
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11:44:02 | FromGitter | <Varriount> zachcarter: Based on the text, this track might have been made in the 2000s |
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12:19:20 | FromGitter | <Bennyelg> Nim for writing ETLs good idea or bad? |
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12:32:01 | krux02 | is there an equivalent for macros.expectKind in compiler/ast/Pnode? |
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12:42:31 | FromGitter | <Varriount> @Bennyelg What's an ETL? |
12:45:59 | FromGitter | <Bennyelg> ETL stands for Extract Transform Load |
12:46:59 | FromGitter | <Bennyelg> Lets say I have A mission to run Something every X minutes and Extract Something from Source X -> Doing Some transformation with the extracted data (if at all) and load it to some place else or the same place but different |
12:50:05 | FromGitter | <stisa> krux02 , not sure, but the implementation is one line : https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/blob/master/lib/core/macros.nim#L380 |
12:50:40 | FromGitter | <stisa> or just use doAssert |
12:52:12 | FromGitter | <Varriount> @Bennyelg Isn't that what most short-running programs do? |
12:53:08 | FromGitter | <Bennyelg> I guess but not sure. |
13:12:12 | krux02 | well I now used illFormedAst |
13:13:15 | Araq | illFormedAst shouldn't be used :P |
13:14:12 | Araq | produce a localError(...) and repair the AST |
13:14:17 | FromGitter | <Bennyelg> Hey Anyone knows what are the good linear algebra, optimization, and differential equation libraries |
13:14:35 | krux02 | well I just to it temporarily to get something that I at least detected the errer case properly instead of just crashing somewhere |
13:14:46 | Araq | and beware of the control flow |
13:14:58 | krux02 | does illFormedAst return? |
13:15:48 | krux02 | A just want something for my else branch that I hope never happens and when it does it means it is incomplete |
13:16:46 | krux02 | another question, is there something like std::declval from c++ |
13:17:03 | Araq | it doesn't return. |
13:17:07 | Araq | illFormedAstLocal does return. |
13:17:30 | krux02 | ok |
13:19:29 | Araq | no idea what std::declval does |
13:20:02 | krux02 | it creates an expression of a type in the ast without actually creating a variable of that type |
13:20:33 | krux02 | var tmp: A; offsetof(tmp.a) |
13:20:39 | Araq | type() ? |
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13:20:48 | krux02 | offsetof(declval(A).a) |
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13:21:01 | Araq | oh what I call a "witness" construction |
13:21:19 | krux02 | I don't know how you call it |
13:21:23 | krux02 | it is new in c++ |
13:21:39 | krux02 | I can look for it |
13:22:06 | Araq | I argued we need it for concepts instead of the messy "typedesc[T] is turned to T" rule for concepts but zahary felt the spec was too easy to implement and we need more rules |
13:22:10 | krux02 | hmm no witness in the index |
13:22:36 | Araq | well it doesn't exist. |
13:22:47 | krux02 | well I could use it |
13:23:00 | Araq | template witness(x): untyped = var v: type(x); v |
13:23:42 | krux02 | well at the moment I hope it solves the problem I have |
13:23:57 | krux02 | I created my offsetof in a way, that it requires a dot expression |
13:24:30 | krux02 | but I put a version in system.nim where offsetof is implemented with a template that does what I just did |
13:24:45 | krux02 | var tmp: A; offestOfDotExpr(tmp.member) |
13:25:04 | krux02 | the problem is, now the compiler complains that I can't construct that value at compile time |
13:25:39 | krux02 | I am not sure if the tmp is the problem, I just guess it is |
13:26:15 | Araq | possilbe, if the 'A' uses .importc |
13:26:58 | krux02 | well in my case it doesn't |
13:30:06 | krux02 | and I guess I can live with that limitation, but then I wonder why i can't get the result at compile time |
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13:45:53 | PMunch | Did this guy ever get help: https://www.reddit.com/r/nim/comments/64knh7/new_to_nim_any_advice_for_making_a_simple_game/ |
13:46:22 | zielmicha_ | is devel branch supposed to work? e.g. should I file bugs if something doesn't work? |
13:47:34 | demi- | zielmicha_: when in doubt, file bugs; they can always be closed |
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13:53:54 | def- | PMunch: no comments sounds like no |
13:54:20 | PMunch | I was just wondering if he had come through here and gotten in answered |
14:07:20 | FromGitter | <Bennyelg> concat string only with & ? |
14:07:30 | FromGitter | <Bennyelg> I cant do something like: open file. (${})".format(name) |
14:08:12 | def- | Bennyelg: https://nim-lang.org/docs/strutils.html#format,string,varargs[string,] |
14:09:31 | def- | import strutils. echo "($#)".format(name) |
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14:09:41 | PMunch | def-, hookrace.net is suddenly full of certification errors.. |
14:10:03 | def- | PMunch: not for me, that's weird |
14:10:40 | PMunch | NET::ERR_CERT_AUTHORITY_INVALID |
14:11:22 | FromGitter | <Bennyelg> Fantastic Work :D |
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14:20:46 | FromGitter | <BotWhisperer> Tried to register for forum -- failed captcha -- 5 + 850 = 855? what? |
14:24:51 | PMunch | BotWhisperer, are you surprised by that answer? |
14:25:06 | PMunch | Or surprised that it wasn't recognized :P |
14:30:33 | euantor | def-: StartCom have been removed from Chrome's SSL trust store due to some dodgy dealings, which would cause SSL errors in Chrome |
14:30:52 | euantor | https://security.googleblog.com/2016/10/distrusting-wosign-and-startcom.html |
14:31:06 | def- | euantor: yep, figured that out as well. switching to letsencrypt as they support winxp mostly now (and i just forgot to switch that domain a few months agao) |
14:31:16 | def- | so i thought i was on letsencrypt already |
14:31:32 | euantor | I had the same issue on one of my sites last month, caught me by surprise too |
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14:32:11 | euantor | Various SSL test tools still report everything as being perfectly fine, so I had to install Chrome to realise what was happening |
14:32:50 | def- | yeah, i heard about that happening because of the shenanigans startcom did |
14:33:53 | FromGitter | <BotWhisperer> surprised that it wasn't recognized... I mean, it's right, right? :) |
14:34:02 | euantor | I believe Symantec have been up to some dodgy stuff too, but they obviously have a bigger market cap right now so pulling their root certificates would cause more problems |
14:34:23 | euantor | BotWhisperer: SOmetimes the forum gets confused, you will have to try registering with a different browser |
14:35:02 | euantor | I've got an open Pull Request against nimforum to remove the custom captcha and use NoCaptcha instead: https://github.com/nim-lang/nimforum/pull/98 |
14:38:27 | FromGitter | <BotWhisperer> So far -- Brave - failed, Chrome - failed, Edge - failed. Perhaps, I'll have to ask here... ? |
14:40:25 | euantor | I'm not sure what would cause that to be honest, perhaps @dom96 can shed some light |
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15:36:46 | dom96 | yeah, we need to fix the damn captcha. As far as I can tell cloudflare is caching the captcha images |
15:37:04 | dom96 | You can try forcing a refresh (Ctrl+Shift+F5) |
15:39:29 | euantor | If it is CloudFlare, surely the easy fix is to add a Page Rule? |
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15:41:06 | FromGitter | <Bennyelg> what is wrong with this code? ⏎ ⏎ ```code paste, see link``` [https://gitter.im/nim-lang/Nim?at=58f63395d32c6f2f09195e8f] |
15:41:18 | FromGitter | <Bennyelg> .echo at the end. |
15:41:59 | FromGitter | <Bennyelg> oh I needed to import future :smile: |
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15:50:49 | chatter29 | hey guys |
15:50:52 | chatter29 | allah is doing |
15:50:59 | chatter29 | sun is not doing allah is doing |
15:51:00 | chatter29 | to accept Islam say that i bear witness that there is no deity worthy of worship except Allah and Muhammad peace be upon him is his slave and messenger |
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15:51:46 | krux02 | dom96: you asked me to inform you when someone is asking for a ban, here is a spammer just arrived |
15:52:09 | krux02 | ok he just let again |
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15:58:52 | Tiberium | why you kicked chatter29 :( I've saw same spam in #pypy channel like 2 months ago |
15:59:07 | Tiberium | maybe this bot owner is trolling programmers |
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16:13:53 | FromGitter | <Bennyelg> How to iterate over table items |
16:13:55 | FromGitter | <Bennyelg> key, value |
16:13:58 | dom96 | chatter29 wasn't kicked |
16:14:16 | dom96 | Bennyelg: pairs() IIRC |
16:15:12 | Tiberium | dom96, ah lol |
16:15:41 | FromGitter | <Bennyelg> what is wrong :/ |
16:15:49 | FromGitter | <Bennyelg> ```code paste, see link``` [https://gitter.im/nim-lang/Nim?at=58f63bb808c00c092a9173c8] |
16:15:57 | FromGitter | <Bennyelg> ```code paste, see link``` [https://gitter.im/nim-lang/Nim?at=58f63bc0bdf4acc1126fa76f] |
16:16:05 | FromGitter | <TiberiumPY> void? |
16:16:11 | FromGitter | <TiberiumPY> you can omit that |
16:16:18 | FromGitter | <TiberiumPY> but maybe it's not the main problem |
16:16:29 | FromGitter | <Bennyelg> its not the problem |
16:16:35 | FromGitter | <TiberiumPY> ah wait |
16:16:53 | FromGitter | <Bennyelg> oh fix |
16:17:02 | FromGitter | <TiberiumPY> you've fixed that? |
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16:17:07 | FromGitter | <Bennyelg> yes |
16:17:10 | FromGitter | <Bennyelg> thanks. |
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16:26:53 | FromGitter | <Bennyelg> Hey, Do we have any Sort by key? for example I want to sort by the Table value |
16:29:09 | Tiberium | maybe you'll need OrderedTable? |
16:29:43 | Tiberium | Bennyelg: https://nim-lang.org/docs/tables.html#sort,OrderedTable[A,B],proc(,) |
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16:33:08 | FromGitter | <TiberiumPY> @Bennyelg and you can always use github search to see usages of this proc :) |
16:33:30 | FromGitter | <TiberiumPY> maybe |
16:33:35 | FromGitter | <Bennyelg> mm :D |
16:35:51 | FromGitter | <mratsim> btw @Bennyelg you don’t need to call pairs explicitly to iterate by key, value. you can do `for i,j in iterator_with_pairs_implemented:` |
16:36:59 | FromGitter | <mratsim> ALso for linear algebra, what do you want to do? You can check `linalg`on unicredit github repo |
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16:46:42 | FromGitter | <Bennyelg> @mratsim Thanks. ⏎ I try to sort orderedTable by value |
16:46:59 | FromGitter | <Bennyelg> If I use this: sort(result, system.cmp) ⏎ I get it sorted by value. |
16:47:03 | FromGitter | <Bennyelg> by key* |
16:54:49 | FromGitter | <mratsim> also for differential equation, if you need to automatically compute gradients, you can check my library: https://github.com/mratsim/nim-rmad. It only works for scalars right now but I hope to generalise to matrices and vectors in the next 2 weeks |
16:56:03 | FromGitter | <mratsim> check the examples folder for gradient descent examples with basic Support Vector Machines and neural networks |
17:17:37 | krux02 | what does ``isObjectWithTypeFieldPredicate`` do? |
17:18:16 | krux02 | or better said, what is a type field predicate? |
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17:51:04 | ldlework | hello |
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18:16:02 | FromGitter | <Bennyelg> sort orderedTable/Table by value , any idea? |
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19:33:51 | subsetpark | Create a new table from the ordered values? |
19:34:33 | FromGitter | <Bennyelg> ordered values is ordered by key not by value |
19:36:24 | subsetpark | Yes, what I mean is - create a sequence of the pairs, order the sequence the way you like, then create a new table out of the sequence |
19:38:37 | FromGitter | <Bennyelg> I got an Idea |
19:38:41 | FromGitter | <Bennyelg> How do I remove element from Table? by key |
19:39:05 | subsetpark | `del` - but it's O(n) |
19:39:31 | FromGitter | <Bennyelg> its Table! :( why its O(n) |
19:40:42 | subsetpark | Because it's ordered :) |
19:42:02 | FromGitter | <Bennyelg> Any regular table ? |
19:50:24 | subsetpark | Here's normal table deletion: https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/blob/a81247dcbe95eaac8338e478d8837cbcf57a0f3e/lib/pure/collections/tableimpl.nim#L123 |
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20:03:40 | FromGitter | <Bennyelg> Cheers |
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20:11:30 | Tiberium | guys, is there any math expression eval libraries for Nim? |
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21:05:16 | zielmicha_ | I've just posted RFC about improvements to I/O interfaces in stdlib (https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/issues/5728). Comments welcome. |
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21:36:40 | FromGitter | <Bennyelg> How Do I mssure time of my program exection? |
21:41:52 | dom96 | Have you guys taken a look at https://nim-lang.org lately? ;) |
21:42:27 | FromGitter | <Bennyelg> Wow |
21:42:34 | FromGitter | <Bennyelg> When they changed to site! |
21:42:38 | FromGitter | <Bennyelg> looks Great now |
21:43:18 | FromGitter | <RSDuck> the new site looks great, but I will miss the slideshow with code examples |
21:46:01 | FromGitter | <stisa> dom96 : nice! btw, snake doesn't load for me, I think because you are trying to load it from a domain without https ? |
21:47:00 | dom96 | damn |
21:47:09 | dom96 | I thought that might happen |
21:47:26 | dom96 | I need to move my domain to SSL |
21:47:32 | dom96 | oh well, for now i'll move it to nim-lang.org |
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22:07:24 | dom96 | sadly no server. |
22:07:32 | dom96 | because it also requires SSL :\ |
22:09:52 | dom96 | But it's still playable without the server :) |
22:11:58 | FromGitter | <mratsim> now many providers give you Let’s Encrypt optionwithout too much hassle |
22:17:29 | demi- | definitely would recommend using letsencrypt |
22:19:29 | dom96 | we use cloudflare |
22:19:55 | dom96 | but for websockets it's not just about getting the certificate, the library has to support it too :\ |
22:21:23 | demi- | yeah that is true |
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22:41:47 | federico3 | Nim on HN again https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14143521 |
22:47:08 | FromGitter | <Varriount> dom96: Wow! Nice look |
22:47:34 | FromGitter | <Varriount> The style reminds me of python.org |
22:48:17 | dom96 | :D |
22:48:43 | FromGitter | <Varriount> And it's only 1.7 Mb - No JS monstrosity! |
22:50:00 | dom96 | Credit goes to Calinou as well. I modified it rather heavily, but without his initial design it would look nowhere as good. |
22:50:06 | dom96 | I suck at picking colors :) |
22:51:35 | FromGitter | <Varriount> https://nim-lang.org/sponsors.html |
22:51:38 | FromGitter | <Varriount> :P |
22:51:57 | dom96 | oh yeah, if you want to be in the Top Sponsors you'll need to give me a logo of some sort |
22:52:02 | dom96 | I guess I can just use your avatar though |
22:52:40 | FromGitter | <Varriount> I'll leave that up to you. I don't mind the way things stand. |
22:53:07 | dom96 | On the other hand it might look more professional to have companies there only. |
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22:53:58 | Calinou | hi |
22:54:05 | Calinou | dom96: I forgot to join this channel after migrating my Quassel :P |
22:54:07 | Calinou | sorry |
22:54:22 | Calinou | I've seen that you've done a lot of work on the website, great :) |
22:54:32 | federico3 | It's really nice |
22:54:57 | dom96 | Yeah, been working on it a LOT over Easter |
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22:55:15 | dom96 | Disappointed that I couldn't get my game to work completely but oh well. |
22:55:18 | Calinou | I have an uni project to finish this week and next week, then I start my 8-week-long internship |
22:55:27 | Calinou | so I can't really help right now |
22:56:17 | dom96 | no problem, help out when you've got time :) |
22:59:48 | ldlework | I have a confession to make |
22:59:58 | ldlework | I've been writing TypeScript |
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23:08:03 | FromGitter | <Varriount> le gasp! |
23:08:23 | FromGitter | <Varriount> ldlework: I think you've broken my heart. |
23:09:08 | FromGitter | <Varriount> dom96: Does Nim really get submitted to the front page every month? |
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23:17:14 | dom96 | https://news.ycombinator.com/from?site=nim-lang.org |
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23:18:07 | FromGitter | <Varriount> Eh, more like every 2-3 months. |
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23:19:59 | dom96 | yep |
23:22:00 | dom96 | I must head to sleep, think you guys could hold down the fort on HN? :) |
23:23:04 | FromGitter | <Varriount> I'll see what I can do. |
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23:36:10 | FromGitter | <Varriount> dom96: Can you change the title to indicate that there's a new website? |
23:36:38 | ldlework | the website really does look nice |
23:36:53 | ldlework | dom96: great job |