<< 18-07-2017 >>
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00:30:43FromGitter<Alan-FGR> made a concept, just a thing that crossed my mind, thought it'd be a waste not to share
00:30:52FromGitter<Alan-FGR> (https://files.gitter.im/nim-lang/Nim/Oykh/image.png)
00:31:12FromGitter<Alan-FGR> kinda cringey but whatever :P
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00:41:43FromGitter<ephja> it became more clear once I turned my head to the left a little :p
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00:43:45FromGitter<Alan-FGR> yeah, it's just an idea ... thought maybe somebody could find it interesting, maybe iterate or something
00:43:51FromGitter<Alan-FGR> or not :P
00:44:15FromGitter<ephja> sure
00:46:10FromGitter<ephja> you know what would help? lens flares
00:47:37FromGitter<Alan-FGR> lens flares in the logo? =/
00:54:00FromGitter<ephja> when in doubt ;)
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01:27:30FromGitter<Alan-FGR> man, lens flare wouldn't fit that logo 
01:28:19FromGitter<Alan-FGR> you could add some color, standardize sizes, etc... could be better for sure, but I'm certainly not holding my breath
01:28:53FromGitter<Alan-FGR> say this
01:29:02FromGitter<Alan-FGR> (https://files.gitter.im/nim-lang/Nim/u2Le/image.png)
01:30:25FromGitter<Alan-FGR> std dists
01:30:33FromGitter<Alan-FGR> (https://files.gitter.im/nim-lang/Nim/HQYr/image.png)
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01:31:15FromGitter<Alan-FGR> anyway, just something for you guys to play around when you're bored... or just bury it, don't care :P
01:33:19FromGitter<ephja> I think it can be made more readable if just a few parts are vertical
01:34:58FromGitter<Alan-FGR> well, then iterate :P... how would you preserve the crown shape? I personally don't think it's gonna be easy, but anyway, just wanted to drop that here 
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01:48:12FromGitter<Varriount> @watzon Look at the `fields ` iterator in the system module.
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03:15:51def-pri-pubRaylib bindings on the way: https://github.com/raysan5/raylib/issues/328#issuecomment-315945282
03:17:21def-pri-pub(still working on them though)
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08:55:43FromGitter<zacharycarter> morning
09:01:10FromGitter<zacharycarter> @Alan-FGR I like the logo :)
09:06:58FromGitter<cyberlis> I have a question
09:07:23FromGitter<zacharycarter> shoot
09:07:34FromGitter<cyberlis> Is overloading of `.` depricated
09:07:37FromGitter<zacharycarter> I have one as well but I'll try to answer yours first
09:07:53FromGitter<zacharycarter> that I cannot answer, I don't see why it would be though
09:08:08FromGitter<cyberlis> i some times getting this message overloaded '.' and '()' operators are now .experimental; . is deprecated [Deprecated]
09:09:08FromGitter<zacharycarter> then maybe it is
09:09:15FromGitter<zacharycarter> you may need to use backticks to escape the operator
09:09:29FromGitter<zacharycarter> try throwing an {.experimental.} pragma at the top of the file
09:09:31FromGitter<zacharycarter> see what happens
09:09:46FromGitter<cyberlis> no :)
09:09:53FromGitter<cyberlis> everything works fine
09:09:59FromGitter<zacharycarter> oh okay
09:10:10FromGitter<cyberlis> but if this is depricated i dont heve to use it
09:11:08FromGitter<cyberlis> it will be sad if i use ``` `.` ``` and then it will be removed from language
09:12:39ArrrrIs not that these operators are deprecated, but that they are now required to use the experimental pragma, and in the future they won't work without it.
09:12:56ArrrrFor now they are allowed without the pragma for a smoother transition
09:14:33FromGitter<zacharycarter> if I'm reading a file line by line, how can I reset the cursor position of the file
09:14:38FromGitter<zacharycarter> so I can re-read it again
09:14:54FromGitter<cyberlis> seek ?
09:15:00FromGitter<zacharycarter> probably thank you
09:15:32FromGitter<cyberlis> but why the marked experimental pragma. May be you have plans to remove them in the future
09:15:32FromGitter<zacharycarter> setFilePos looks like it will work thanks I didn't know what to search for
09:16:21FromGitter<zacharycarter> @cyberlis there are quite a few features in the stdlib that are marked experimental but aren't planned for removal
09:16:26FromGitter<zacharycarter> like auto dereferencing etc
09:17:02FromGitter<zacharycarter> I believe the thought is these features aren't fully baked into the language / tested yet so they're marked as experimental
09:17:11FromGitter<zacharycarter> but once they are that pragma will no longer be required
09:17:41FromGitter<zacharycarter> and as Arrrr explained for now you can get away without that pragma but at some point it will be enforced
09:17:47FromGitter<zacharycarter> until the feature is no longer expiermental
09:18:19FromGitter<cyberlis> thanks
09:18:25FromGitter<zacharycarter> I wouldn't count on much being totally stable in Nim until it hits 1.0, but the contributors and Araq / Dom96 are generally pretty good about making sure new changes don't totally screw existing code
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09:50:21FromGitter<zacharycarter> morning
09:53:28skrylar1) successfully did a thing with nim javascript 2) the docs are a little mmmm
09:53:47skrylarSaw a japanese post where they were using innerhtml with nim js, but innerhtml isn't listed in the docs
09:53:50skrylartroubling
09:56:12FromGitter<zacharycarter> hrm
09:57:01FromGitter<zacharycarter> skrylar: https://github.com/zacharycarter/nim-playground-frontend/blob/5520eb165f9fc9a8bb3022071f9f2d81e32033f5/src/app.nim
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09:57:56skrylarneat?
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09:58:12FromGitter<zacharycarter> I use innerhtml a few places in there
09:58:18FromGitter<zacharycarter> pretty sure it comes from the dom module
09:58:29FromGitter<zacharycarter> but yeah I don't think it's documented
10:14:28skrylarits in the dom module and it is undocumented, correct
10:14:40skrylarthere might be some compiler magic creating it, not sure
10:18:39FromGitter<zacharycarter> mmhmm
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10:21:06FromGitter<krux02> @zacharycarter hi there
10:21:22FromGitter<krux02> how is your project going?
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11:45:00FromGitter<mratsim> @Araq, I suppose you already saw that, here is a benchmark of 6 Python strings concatenation proc: https://waymoot.org/home/python_string/ (from 2004)
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12:00:57Araq_mratsim: I tried word counting instead
12:01:04Araq_no difference :-/
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12:27:02FromGitter<AnorakTech_twitter> Good day! Quick question. How can I define the float precision for a certain variable? I need two or three digits after the .
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12:38:51salewskiAnorakTech_twitter, see https://nim-lang.org/docs/strutils.html#formatFloat,float,FloatFormatMode,range[],Char
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13:00:13salewskidom96, a few of us got that strange message from manning that the final book is available. But it is not, see
13:00:19salewskihttps://forums.manning.com/posts/list/41203.page;jsessionid=98D504ACFB46FB3B4CE1E46EF17EFB75
13:01:15salewskiAnd gintro is not yet in nimble package list. Is the yes tag the problem still?
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13:06:35FromGitter<zacharycarter> @krux02 good bud
13:07:46FromGitter<zacharycarter> https://github.com/zacharycarter/zengine
13:07:50FromGitter<zacharycarter> how about you?
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13:17:58krux02zacharycartey, good as well
13:18:03krux02I am fixing nim-mode for emacs
13:18:28krux02this project root stuff for nim mode is too complicated
13:18:30krux02I don't like ti
13:19:19krux02Araq_: in nim.cfg I put --verbosity:0 but then I get the error /home/arne/.config/nim.cfg(4, 14) Error: identifier expected, but found '0'
13:19:22krux02why?
13:19:52Araq_the config parser is a bit limited :P
13:19:59Araq_use "0" with double quotes
13:20:17krux02ok
13:20:38krux02the config parser should at least be ablet to parse what is possible on the command line
13:20:50krux02but anyway
13:20:56krux02it works for me like this
13:21:13FromGitter<zacharycarter> krux02: sounds like hell, but then again I consider emacs to be hel
13:21:15FromGitter<zacharycarter> hell
13:21:27krux02well emacs is hell
13:21:30krux02at least at the beginning
13:21:42krux02and then it some point in time the dust settles and things become clear
13:21:48krux02and then it is not so bad after all
13:21:57krux02still a huge hack for everything
13:22:02krux02but a lot of nice things in there
13:22:38FromGitter<zacharycarter> yeah that's what I've heard
13:23:00krux02I kind of like the customization and the self awareness of everything
13:23:14krux02when I ask about a variable I don't just get the value
13:23:41krux02emacs knows the documentation, the value, wheder it is declared where it has been set and how it has been set
13:24:00krux02s/wheder/where/
13:24:10krux02but I still think I am on a sinking boat
13:24:16krux02very slowly sinking, but still sinking
13:25:01krux02https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&q=emacs,vim
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13:26:42krux02chine and japan still seem to really like emacs
13:26:53krux02china
13:26:56krux02i can't type
13:30:32krux02zacharycarter: I see you added primitives to your engine like cube etc
13:31:29krux02well it would be nice to have a few more people on my side using emacs
13:31:38krux02it feels like i am the only nim developer using emacs
13:33:33FromGitter<zacharycarter> krux02: this is a brand new from scratch engine
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13:33:37FromGitter<zacharycarter> no more bgfx, just opengl
13:33:44krux02interesting
13:33:47FromGitter<zacharycarter> I stopped work onf rag
13:33:53FromGitter<zacharycarter> on frag*
13:34:03krux02can I ask why?
13:34:07FromGitter<zacharycarter> was too tough for new users to get going with
13:34:09krux02I thought bgfx is so cool?
13:34:29FromGitter<zacharycarter> it is cool, but it adds another dependency that needs to be linked to and people were having trouble getting it compiled etc
13:34:33raussIt's cool but difficult to work with.
13:35:03raussIt's great once you get it set up
13:35:10krux02that's sad
13:35:19krux02I hate difficult setups
13:35:33FromGitter<zacharycarter> yea this new engine has no dependencies other than sdl2
13:35:36FromGitter<zacharycarter> like your project :)
13:35:40raussIt's the kind of thing I would use in a heartbeat for a one-off game, but not necessarily for a game framework.
13:36:28FromGitter<zacharycarter> I'd even use it in a game engine but your audience needs to be comfortable with compiling C++ libraries and cross compiling too
13:37:03FromGitter<zacharycarter> the new library is geared towards easy prototyping
13:37:08FromGitter<zacharycarter> I may add another bgfx backend to it eventually
13:37:21krux02it feels a lot like processing and blitz basic
13:37:21raussYeah depends on the goals. It's a higher ceiling, so worth it for more ambitious scopes.
13:37:32krux02simple immediate primitives to render
13:37:37krux02and global settings
13:37:38rausskrux02: Isn't processing a joke language?
13:37:52krux02enabling lines setting line color fill color
13:38:01krux02processing is java
13:38:03raussjoke here meaning meant for learning, not for doing
13:38:09krux02i don't see it as another language
13:38:16raussOh, there's actually a language called Processing, too
13:38:20krux02but I really do like it for it's simplicity
13:38:38krux02give someone processing and they will give you interesting results instantly without a lot of knowledge
13:38:49raussAh. So it's just a java-clone or java-lite thing?
13:39:02krux02no it is java
13:39:19krux02all the processing compiler does it to prepend a bit of boilerplate
13:39:38raussOkay
13:39:42krux02it scans the document to see what code needs to be generated, but generally it is just java
13:39:50krux02it is not another languae
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13:41:21krux02processing does the jar management, so you don't need to hassle with the overly complicated java toolchain
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13:41:35krux02it makes things just work
13:42:33krux02you use zengray?
13:42:58krux02zacherycarter, did you think about supporting the colors module from the nim standard library?
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13:47:44skrylari don't know that floats work that way
13:47:53skrylarif they do it requires some weird assembly flags iirc
13:48:29krux02skrylar: that floats work what way?
13:48:40skrylarsomeone was asking how to set the precision of a float to two digits
13:48:43rausskrux02: At one point in Frag's history I had supported the std colors module. In a rewrite we shifted away from it, and I added "use my old colors module" as an issue we never got to
13:48:55raussso... yes? lol
13:49:06FromGitter<zacharycarter> krux02: I could probably swap it in instead of this ZColor thing i created
13:49:22raussOh you're talking about zEngine now, my bad
13:49:26krux02well I don't really care
13:49:56krux02it is just that it is in the standard library, and less duplication is always good
13:50:03FromGitter<zacharycarter> agreed
13:50:10FromGitter<zacharycarter> I'll look at that tonight
13:50:11krux02well not always, but generally I would agree
13:50:38skrylarstdlib does not equal good
13:50:49*skrylar has pretend ptsd from D's libphobos
13:51:27krux02ptsd?
13:52:02krux02well there are also people who disagree on the c++ standard library
13:52:11FromGitter<zacharycarter> post traumatic stress disorder haha
13:52:13krux02anevery standard library is flawed somehow
13:52:25krux02and I agree that the nim standard library has flaws
13:52:32krux02not just a few
13:53:00skrylarstandard libraries are silly concepts but meh
13:53:06krux02well I stayed away from D while I was always peeking to the language
13:53:14skrylar"just compile code and i'll pick a platform library that works"
13:53:40skrylarwell i mean they might not be so bad but non-nim languages tend to do things like say this is the hash implementation we used and if you want another too bad
13:53:45krux02and a funny thing is that I did play the game "Empire" from the Developer of D, before the language was a thing
13:53:45skrylaryou lose all the syntax niceties
13:53:54skrylaranyway
13:54:05skrylarD1 was great. then they let the C++ ~~morons~~ fellows ruin it
13:54:08krux02I just did not understand it, because I could not read yet, nor did I speak english
13:54:27krux02that are two problems when you play a game with english screen texts
13:54:38skrylarthe solution is sierra adventure games
13:54:48skrylarhow everyone in europe learned english
13:54:49skrylarlol
13:55:47skrylarbleh. wonder how difficult it would be to port re2c to a nim macro
13:55:50krux02skrylar: what did ruin D?
13:55:52skrylarwe need parsing tools in our lives
13:56:50skrylarkrux02, basically they let modern c++ people in who started caring more about selling hundred page spec books rather than implementation and tidiness. so the website became "obsolete" and you were expected to buy Andrei's book. Who in turn added all sorts of C++-esque barf
13:57:08skrylarThen they realized libphobos was broken without the GC, so instead of fixing phobos they made the gc a hard requirement
13:57:24skrylareven though a major selling point of D1 is you could always throw it away if you needed to do very tight coding
13:57:25krux02Andrei has great c++ talks
13:57:46skrylarwell. i could barely crash walter's d1
13:57:53skrylari crashed andrei's d2 regularly
13:58:22skrylarthey're basically dead now
13:58:37skrylarthere's a couple zombies in the irc and forums but he killed that language
13:58:42ehmrykrux02: he does, but they do get heavy into template madness
13:58:58skrylari'm just going to say this and then i'm done ranting about andrei et all
13:59:12skrylarcan someone explain to my how template madness makes more sense than lisp macros
13:59:44krux02skrylar: well c++ templates are basically what nim generics are
13:59:53ehmryidk, GNU turned me off of lisp from the start
13:59:55krux02not very powerful
14:00:08skrylar"i drop to an interpreter, output some code, and the compiler eats the code like pancakes." vs "i concoct 500 lines of algebraic voodoo which only works on some compilers and is guaranteed to give the most mortifying error messages on a whim"
14:00:48krux02but with a lot of horrible syntax c++templates can do a lot of things
14:00:54skrylartrue
14:01:00skrylarbut lisp can do it with nice syntax?
14:01:49krux02well in Nim I can put my own error messages :)
14:01:57skrylarnim also has macros though :3
14:02:00krux02macros.error
14:02:01krux02very nice
14:02:10skrylarthough i mostly abuse templates
14:02:23krux02I mostly abuse macros
14:02:25skrylarits nice to know that if someone did the leg work we could just have re2c lexers native though
14:02:35krux02a lot of result.add quote do:
14:03:01skrylartechnically we could have glsl-esque stuff too but why static compile that
14:03:26skrylarif only nim looked good on my resume ._.
14:03:33krux02glsl stuff? what do you mean?
14:04:05skrylarglsl = gl shader language
14:04:18krux02skrylar: do you think "some scientific topic nobody understands the title" looks better on a resume
14:04:29krux02skrylar: I know glsl, but what do you want from it?
14:04:36skrylarkrux02, doesn't matter what i think, matters what some hr drone thinks
14:05:11krux02well I know it's best when you can talk to responsible people directly
14:05:21skrylarit is, but thats not how the usa works :(
14:05:28skrylarunless you meet the team people at parties or cons
14:05:28krux02don't tak to "staff people" who have no idea of the real stuff
14:05:45krux02well I don't live in the US
14:05:54skrylari've implemented a healthy dose of deepmind whitepapers in C# and ported about half of that to nim, doesn't help me get a job tho
14:06:11skrylarother than i can say i have baby neural nets in nim
14:06:24krux02I am invited to foundation of digital games in the US, but I can't afford the ticket :(
14:06:31skrylarsadface
14:06:53krux02flying over to the US is expensive
14:07:08skrylarused the example earlier of "it will decide to rob banks and convenience stores because that's the fastest way to get the money" as an example of how one has to be careful defining optimization scores lol
14:07:55ehmryyea, conferences in europe are a lot more convenient
14:08:13krux02not really, but for me they are at least closer by
14:08:19skrylari wouldn't mind going to conferences. though a lot of AI talks get posted online
14:08:23ehmrywithin the US its hard to travel to everything
14:08:31krux02conference in Cologne, and yay I can travel for free
14:09:48krux02what I have heared is that realways are very spares and even within cities everything is so spread that walking is not really an option
14:10:07skrylarin the usa?
14:10:15skrylarwe don't have commuter rail like europe does, no
14:10:42skrylarevery time people try to put it in some derf spends a ton of money on political stuff so we don't get it
14:12:12krux02what is derf?
14:14:50skrylarit's a non-word
14:15:29skrylarpeople get less offended if you use non-words instead of the normal set of diminutizing phrases
14:15:31krux02I think it's funny and sad to watch american politics
14:15:58krux02a moroon is talking nonsense and then people are cheering his name.
14:15:58ehmryjust let us be an example of what not to do
14:16:12skrylarif you say someone had an idiot moment they feel bad/upset but if you say they had a derpy moment then its like "oh yea i did"
14:16:48krux02I mean in Germany politicians are also talking nonsense that is no difference, but at least people are not cheering about it they just fall asleep
14:17:12skrylarthey don't cheer but they are still putting up with the laws
14:17:58skrylaranyway thats the last i'm going to say on politics :x
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14:23:52FromGitter<cyberlis> Guys. I want make API calls to server. ⏎ ⏎ I want call it like this: ⏎ ⏎ ``` ⏎ ⏎ And get this calls ⏎ ``` ... [https://gitter.im/nim-lang/Nim?at=596e19f8329651f46e9c2357]
14:25:27skrylaryou might need to use a template with variable arguments for your dot overload
14:25:41skrylari think the dot method is the same call for every .something
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14:31:23FromGitter<cyberlis> ```code paste, see link``` ⏎ ⏎ Error: type mismatch: got (string, int literal(23), int literal(34), int literal(45)) ⏎ but expected one of: ⏎ proc reprT (x: T): string [https://gitter.im/nim-lang/Nim?at=596e1bbb2723db8d5e22122d]
14:34:10FromGitter<cyberlis> how can i access method name and it's args
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15:03:52FromGitter<janjaapbos> Just would like to share a pointer to my project, embedding ZeroTier in Nim. This would enable direct and secure messaging for Nim apps. ⏎ https://github.com/janjaapbos/zerotiercore/tree/master/ztcore/ztnim
15:04:30FromGitter<janjaapbos> Since I am new at Nim, feedback / help is always appreciated!
15:13:15FromGitter<andreaferretti> what is zerotier?
15:17:10ehmryandreaferretti: its a virtual ethernet engine with end-to-end discovery and NAT penetration
15:17:35ehmryI've been using it for a few years now, I like it
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15:32:23krux02Araq_: you could my life a lot easier, if nimsuggest could find out the project root on it's own
15:32:54krux02flycheck isn't working ... again
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15:38:41Araq_I'm working on a new feature ... nimsuggest should be able to make breakfast
15:42:44krux02yay breakfast for dinner
15:43:02krux02no seriously what is the problem that nimsuggest can't find the project root on it's own?
15:44:05krux02it it wrong to implement it as a recursive serach upwards the directory tree to find a project definition file?
15:47:50Araq_oh so that's what you mean
15:47:56Araq_PR it?
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15:48:18Araq_if a directory, it can go up and downwards and inside out to find out what you tell the compiler all the time
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15:58:49FromGitter<Varriount> @janjaapbos Any particular reason for using the commands module over the subprocess module?
15:59:23FromGitter<janjaapbos> I am just used to it.
16:03:34FromGitter<Varriount> Ah, because it's been deprecated since 2.6, and removed in 3.0+
16:04:05krux02Araq_: I have in nimsuggest the following error
16:04:09krux02"invalid module name: \'\'"
16:04:12krux02with no location
16:04:15krux02what does it mean?
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16:06:12Araq_you pass it an invalid filename?
16:08:40krux02well when I pass it random crap, then I get no message at all
16:11:05FromGitter<janjaapbos> @Varriount Thanks, I'll revise the project to support python 3. I am just so used to 2. ;-)
16:11:08krux02I want to test nimsuggest on the command line to find out how it works
16:11:49krux02so the filename I pass to 'chk' is that relative to the project root, or is it relative to the current buffer
16:11:53krux02sorry
16:12:15krux02relative to where the project has been started
16:14:06krux02nope I wont't get any suggestions in my examples folder
16:14:08krux02that sucks
16:16:11FromGitter<Varriount> @Araq @dom96 Do we have any documentation on compiling Nim code as a DLL?
16:16:15krux02janjaapbos: that is so weird in the python world. Python 3 is out for 10 years but still everybody is using python 2
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16:24:11FromGitter<shalabhc> python 3 has been picking up quite a bit in the last 1-2 years
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16:42:51FromGitter<krux02> I think it's interesting how long it takes for a language to change something
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16:47:44skrylarits why you should make the smallest language possible and do everything as macros and libs
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16:48:41skrylarthe mind boggles why cpython has so many lines and is so huge yet is also so slow
16:49:22FromGitter<Piripant> Well the developers were always honest about how little they cared for performance
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16:51:00FromGitter<Piripant> It's not a goal of the cpython project
16:51:45FromGitter<Piripant> Python is intended to be productive and easy to learn not well performant
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17:12:03FromGitter<shalabhc> cpython is huge? i'd say it's still small.
17:12:26FromGitter<shalabhc> e.g. compare to c++ or java. try compiling one of those languages, then compile cpython.
17:12:59FromGitter<shalabhc> but yeah, not super fast
17:13:28FromGitter<shalabhc> and cpython exposes too many internals so it's hard to optimize - all extensions are tightly coupled to the implementation
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18:34:49krux02I don't like cpython very much
18:35:05krux02but that has to do with the fact that I don't like python in general
18:35:07krux02:P
18:39:47FromGitter<Varriount> *gasp*
18:40:27FromGitter<Varriount> krux02: You and I must fight to the death now, for you have insulted something dear to me.
18:41:18krux02don't worry I don't like any programming language they are all horrible
18:41:35krux02nim is the least horrible of them for me right now
18:41:45krux02but it is still far from a perfect language
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18:50:51FromGitter<mratsim> That’s where someone should say “Don’t feed the troll” :P
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18:58:08krux02well sometimes I can totally understand why Trolls are trolling. Because people let themself being trolled.
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19:32:23FromGitter<shalabhc> nim borrows a few things from python
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19:50:08krux02well it doesn't borrow the type system, and that's a good thing
19:52:39ZevvHow do I echo the value of a pointer?
19:53:26Zevvoh cast[int]
19:53:31Zevvsorry again for asking too soon
19:54:01krux02I would cast to uint
19:54:34Zevvtrue :)
19:57:29ehmryZevv: or ``ByteAddress``
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19:58:16ZevvSo, what I was trying to do is to see how seqs are allocated, and grown
19:58:29Zevvwhat does a seq look like on the heap?
19:58:47Zevvwhat is the underlying data structure, is it just a linear block that is realloc()ed?
20:05:31FromGitter<mratsim> No it’s a length + an unchecked array, the definition is somewhere in the source code
20:06:12ZevvI was just halfway incrSeqV2
20:09:58Zevvseems to be a block that's grown in powers of two when needed
20:12:22FromGitter<mratsim> Probably this: https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/blob/master/lib/system.nim#L387
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20:15:40krux02Znvv: a seq is a pointer to this C thing struct{size_t size,capacity; T data[]};
20:15:50krux02meaning the data is directly after the size and capacity
20:16:06krux02and it is doubling in size after reallocation
20:16:14krux02semantically identical to std::vector
20:16:26krux02even though std::vector (c++) is allocated differently
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20:17:02Zevvyah, that explains, theres regular memcpys happening
20:17:03Zevvthanks
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20:30:41dom96Araq_: This seems like nuget is failing not that our tester takes too long https://ci.appveyor.com/project/Araq/nim/build/1347#L13
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20:50:49FromGitter<zacharycarter> o/ evening all
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21:51:39FromGitter<krux02> @Araq Are you there?
21:53:12FromGitter<Varriount> @zacharycarter Evening.
21:53:24FromGitter<krux02> good evening
21:54:09FromGitter<krux02> I just found out that $ on a nil seq returns "nil"
21:54:17FromGitter<krux02> but $ on a nil string returns nil
21:54:31FromGitter<krux02> the difference is the ""
21:54:36FromGitter<krux02> do you think that's right?
21:55:06FromGitter<Varriount> I think strings and sequences need to be automatically initialized.
21:55:14FromGitter<krux02> http://ix.io/yz0
21:55:19FromGitter<krux02> I think so, too
21:55:41FromGitter<krux02> and it would not be a problem at all, if the seq would interally be the same as std::vector in c++
21:55:49FromGitter<krux02> std::vector is three pointers
21:56:09FromGitter<krux02> begin end end-of-capacity
21:56:21FromGitter<krux02> set them all to nullptr and the seq is empty
21:57:37Araq_that's not what std::vector is
21:57:52Araq_that's what you think it is. it can have different implementations
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21:58:38FromGitter<krux02> yes you are right it can have different implementations
21:58:59dom96Araq_: fix yo nick
21:59:12FromGitter<krux02> echo nilstring; # prints "nil"
21:59:17*Araq_ is now known as araq
21:59:25FromGitter<krux02> $nilstring == "nil" fails
21:59:33FromGitter<krux02> I think that is a bit inconsistent
22:00:10FromGitter<krux02> but when the nil value of string becomes a non issue, this will be fixed I hope
22:00:11araqIMO $nil should crash but some fool patched the stdlib to be "nice"
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22:00:34FromGitter<krux02> well I disagree that $nil should crash
22:00:47*araq is now known as Araq
22:00:49FromGitter<Varriount> araq: I thought it was you who made '$' and 'len' automatically initialize the stdlib.
22:01:51FromGitter<krux02> I don't like crashes in the "just dump it to some string form" function
22:02:10FromGitter<krux02> I think no functionality should rely on the implementation of $
22:02:22FromGitter<krux02> (I mean parsing related)
22:05:26Araqkrux02: so what do you suggest
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22:10:10FromGitter<krux02> well when the string and the seq type don't have the nil value anymore this problem is automatically solved
22:10:54FromGitter<krux02> The problem here is not too big, so I can just live with how it is until nim behaves like I think it will behave in the future
22:11:56FromGitter<krux02> @Araq one last question, shoul isNil[string] and isNil[seq] be deprecated? I think no code should be written anymore that relies on that functionality
22:14:19FromGitter<Varriount> @krux02 Shouldn't those procedures be kept until strings and sequences actually initialize automatically?
22:15:13FromGitter<Varriount> @krux02 The thing is, how would one prevent automatic initialization (for optimization purposes?
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22:18:10FromGitter<krux02> well I don't say those procedures should be removed. I just say that they should be deprecated, just to prevent people using the nil state of those type for some logic
22:19:39FromGitter<krux02> and automatic initialization should not be prevented
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22:21:33FromGitter<krux02> I think a seq should be implemented like in gcc with the three pointers
22:21:55FromGitter<krux02> preventing automatic initialization could really confuse the GC (I think)
22:23:24FromGitter<krux02> but with the three pointer the empty seq would be implemented without allocation
22:23:51FromGitter<krux02> and if strings are implemented similarly, they could have small string optimizations
22:24:00FromGitter<krux02> or strings become immutable
22:25:03FromGitter<Varriount> @krux02 Araq has a personal experimental branch with an immutable string type. He couldn't find a benchmark/scenario where immutable strings won.
22:25:50Araqthe branch is on github btw
22:26:07Araqcompile with -d:nimImmutableStrings and see the results for yourself
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22:30:22FromGitter<watzon> Working on my first big nim project, a (hopefully) fully featured Nunjucks parser
22:30:31FromGitter<watzon> So far I have the Lexer https://gitlab.com/watzon/nunchaku/blob/master/src/nunchaku/lexer.nim
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22:33:39FromGitter<Varriount> @watzon Nitpicking - if you want to follow convention, procedures that initialize object types should be named "initXXX", where "XXX" is the type name.
22:34:10FromGitter<watzon> @Varriount rather than newXXX?
22:34:21FromGitter<Varriount> newXXX is for reference types.
22:34:32FromGitter<Varriount> WHITESPACE_CHARS et al. can be character sets.
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22:36:04FromGitter<Varriount> I find using the command notation on procedures that take no arguments confusing (I prefer `t.forward()` or `forward(t)` over `t.forward`.
22:36:08FromGitter<watzon> How do character sets work? Really I'm taking the javascript implementation of nunjucks and reverse engineering it into nim, so I know things aren't going to be perfect right off the bat
22:36:11FromGitter<Varriount> That's personal taste though.
22:36:19FromGitter<watzon> That's half the reason I'm sharing it haha
22:36:29FromGitter<Varriount> Nim sets are bit sets.
22:36:46FromGitter<Varriount> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bit_array
22:37:45FromGitter<Varriount> https://nim-lang.org/docs/manual.html#types-set-type
22:37:56FromGitter<watzon> So as an example how would I turn `const WHITESPACE_CHARS* = "\n\t\r\u00A0\u0020\u200B"` into a bit set? I don't see any references to bit sets in the docs
22:38:08FromGitter<watzon> Nevermind lol
22:39:03FromGitter<Varriount> Also, keep in mind that in Nim, the character escape '\n' is transformed into the target newline sequence.
22:39:56FromGitter<krux02> well I think immutable strings have potential for optimizations, especially because they don't need copy semantic anymore
22:40:30FromGitter<Varriount> @krux02 At this point, I'm wondering if string references might not be simpler.
22:41:07FromGitter<krux02> well I think that strings a parameters could internally be optimized to string references
22:41:46FromGitter<krux02> so that passing a substring to a function also doesn't need to copy
22:42:19FromGitter<Varriount> That can be done with an optimization pass though, not a user-provided immutable string type
22:43:29FromGitter<Varriount> @Araq I can't believe I'm actually arguing against adding an immutable string type now.
22:45:41FromGitter<watzon> How would you do "u00A0" as a char in nim?
22:46:51FromGitter<cyberlis> > Guys. I want make API calls to server. ⏎ ⏎ I want call it like this: ⏎ ⏎ ``` ⏎ ⏎ And get this calls ⏎ ``` ... [https://gitter.im/nim-lang/Nim?at=596e8fdbf5b3458e305d7ebf]
22:47:02FromGitter<Varriount> @watzon Nim characters are 8-bit integers. You need to use https://nim-lang.org/docs/unicode.html
22:47:02FromGitter<cyberlis> > ``` ⏎ type ⏎ ⏎ ```code paste, see link``` [https://gitter.im/nim-lang/Nim?at=596e8fe54bcd78af56c2efab]
22:48:03FromGitter<Varriount> @cyberlis `repr` only takes one argument.
22:48:37FromGitter<cyberlis> ok. it means i can iterate over data ?
22:49:26FromGitter<Varriount> Possibly. I haven't used varargs in a '.' procedure before.
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22:49:43FromGitter<Varriount> @watzon Nim characters are 8-bit integers. You need to use https://nim-lang.org/docs/unicode.html
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23:00:11FromGitter<cyberlis> I want ask about `ref` objects
23:00:35FromGitter<cyberlis> when i have to use `new` and when i don't have to do it
23:01:44FromGitter<krux02> well I don't use ref objects at all, but if I understand correctly new allocates objects on the GC heap for you
23:02:02FromGitter<Varriount> @krux02 Never? You never use ref objects?
23:02:10FromGitter<krux02> never
23:02:21FromGitter<zacharycarter> I haven't used any ref objects in zengine either
23:02:23FromGitter<krux02> I don't know for what I would need ref types
23:02:31FromGitter<zacharycarter> I used them a lot in frag
23:02:42FromGitter<cyberlis> @Varriount if you are here, please answer my question
23:02:47FromGitter<cyberlis> please ^^
23:03:05FromGitter<krux02> @zacharycarter and then you realized you don't need them?
23:03:26FromGitter<cyberlis> If i define type with like this ⏎ ⏎ ```type ⏎ MyObject = ref object``` [https://gitter.im/nim-lang/Nim?at=596e93bdbf7e6af22ceffe28]
23:03:33FromGitter<krux02> well when you have a var of a ref object
23:03:37FromGitter<cyberlis> then i dont have to use `new`
23:03:37FromGitter<krux02> you cal call myvar.new
23:03:46FromGitter<watzon> Is there an easy way to turn a char into a rune? Or turn a string with a single utf-8 character in it into a rune?
23:03:56FromGitter<cyberlis> because it will work automatically?
23:03:57FromGitter<krux02> and then myvar is not nil anymore but correctly initialized with an object
23:04:26PMunchcyberlis, when you have something that is not a ref. For example an int, it is initalised to it's null value (for ints the number ). When you create a new variable of int type it allocates memory on the stack for it and you can use it without new. A ref type is basically as a pointer. So if I say that I want a ref to an array of length 5 it will actually only allocate space for the pointer and not the array. So by doing new you
23:04:26PMunchbasically tell Nim to allocate space for the object that is referenced and then set the reference to the allocated space (which is nulled).
23:04:33FromGitter<krux02> no it is not magic it is generic in system.nim
23:04:35PMunchDoes that make sense?
23:04:41FromGitter<krux02> https://nim-lang.org/docs/system.html#new,ref.T
23:05:15FromGitter<krux02> But I never use ref objects
23:05:25FromGitter<krux02> and when you think about it you will probably also not need them
23:05:41FromGitter<Varriount> @watzon If you don't mind a small performance penalty, you can just create a small string.
23:06:42FromGitter<Varriount> @watzon Why do you need to handle UTF-8 characters?
23:06:48FromGitter<watzon> @Varriount I love the idea of runes, they have a lot of the features I've been looking for like `runeAt`, but comparing Runes and chars/strings is becoming a pain
23:07:19FromGitter<watzon> They also make handling newlines a little easier since you can't do `'\n'`
23:07:22FromGitter<krux02> @watzon well runeAt is the function that you should avoid the most
23:07:33FromGitter<watzon> @krux02 why is that?
23:07:48FromGitter<krux02> because indexing a string by rune can only be implemented by scanning through the entire string
23:08:16FromGitter<watzon> Ahh I see
23:08:41FromGitter<krux02> meaning when you have a loop for i in ...: str.runeAt(i) ...
23:08:50FromGitter<krux02> you already have O(N^2) time
23:08:52FromGitter<krux02> not good
23:09:21FromGitter<Varriount> @watzon What kind of scenarios require you to use unicode?
23:09:30FromGitter<krux02> in iterator that gives you all the runes is fine
23:09:31FromGitter<watzon> Yeah I get what you're saying
23:11:18FromGitter<zacharycarter> @krux02 pretty much
23:11:22FromGitter<watzon> @Varriount I don't think I really need unicode, but I'm wondering how I can turn `WHITESPACE_CHARS* = "\n\t\r\u00A0\u0020\u200B"` into a bit set like you were saying
23:12:01FromGitter<watzon> Even if I take out the unicode characters there, `\n` still can't be a char
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23:12:18FromGitter<cyberlis> "\c\l"
23:12:30FromGitter<watzon> *facepalm*
23:12:34FromGitter<Varriount> :3
23:12:40FromGitter<watzon> I should've thought of that
23:12:52FromGitter<krux02> @watzon sorry rune it is implemented with a byte offset
23:12:56*FromGitter * Varriount gives @cyberlis the award of the day
23:13:15FromGitter<krux02> so it does work without iterating throgh the entire string
23:13:35FromGitter<krux02> but geting the N'th rune only works in O(N) time, I thought rune at was that function
23:13:40FromGitter<krux02> sorry for the misinformation
23:13:52FromGitter<watzon> Ahh ok
23:14:48FromGitter<cyberlis> > @Varriount gives @cyberlis the award of the day ⏎ what does this mean? it's a joke? or i said something stupid?
23:15:11FromGitter<watzon> It looks serious
23:15:15FromGitter<watzon> It's in purple
23:15:18FromGitter<Varriount> It's a joke. I'm thankful that you gave a helpful, insightful answer
23:15:53FromGitter<cyberlis> > It looks serious ⏎ -_-
23:16:17FromGitter<Varriount> It's like Alexander the Great cutting through the Gordian Knot
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23:35:28FromGitter<zacharycarter> 3d model loading wip
23:35:31FromGitter<zacharycarter> (https://files.gitter.im/nim-lang/Nim/rd6b/Screen-Shot-2017-07-18-at-7.35.11-PM.png)
23:35:37FromGitter<krux02> well nuget fails to get the dependencies
23:35:53FromGitter<krux02> The 3D model is the easy part
23:36:03FromGitter<krux02> wail for the skeletal animation
23:36:14FromGitter<zacharycarter> oh I've attempted skel animation before
23:36:20FromGitter<zacharycarter> and I know it's not fun :)
23:36:27FromGitter<krux02> ok then it might be easier
23:36:42FromGitter<krux02> I am very proud of my iqm model loader
23:36:50FromGitter<krux02> it has skeletal animation
23:37:01FromGitter<zacharycarter> is this available on github?
23:37:09FromGitter<zacharycarter> I've just written an obj loader so far
23:37:33krux02yes
23:37:40krux02https://camo.githubusercontent.com/9e797343b82d379a3eb5c9fcca5c0013bb13882d/687474703a2f2f692e696d6775722e636f6d2f59454e707362512e706e67
23:38:19krux02https://github.com/krux02/opengl-sandbox/blob/master/examples/mesh_loading_tiny.nim
23:39:45krux02https://github.com/krux02/opengl-sandbox/blob/master/fancyglpkg/iqm.nim
23:41:12krux02well obj does not have skeletal animations
23:41:26krux02iqm is a mesh format that seemed logicalt to implement
23:43:46FromGitter<krux02> @zacharycarter your renderer looks so low res
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23:43:49FromGitter<krux02> is that inteded?
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23:45:17FromGitter<zacharycarter> yeah
23:45:45FromGitter<zacharycarter> at least for the primtive drawing
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23:52:12FromGitter<zacharycarter> @krux02 I was thinking about leveraging assimp, but it's a third party lib which would require users to compile it
23:52:20FromGitter<zacharycarter> skeletal animation becomes much simpler with assimp I believe
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23:56:32krux02well iqm is a very easy mesh format that does everything you need
23:56:50krux02it is binany so there is no parsing just pointer casting :P
23:57:01FromGitter<zacharycarter> gotcha
23:57:25krux02well in theory the is still endianness