<< 18-08-2013 >>

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00:47:19	dom96	aww
00:47:42	dom96	well that was fun
00:48:19	dom96	Time to sleep
00:48:20	dom96	good night
00:50:55	EXetoC	gg bye
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04:08:35	reactormonk	dom96, so how do I add my babel lib to my project
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11:03:23	dom96	reactormonk: https://gist.github.com/dom96/6261117
11:03:45	dom96	put that in nim-kwin-tiling's root and run 'babel build'
11:08:12	BitPuffin	wait you can use babel to build?
11:08:13	BitPuffin	gahhhh
11:08:29	dom96	of course!
11:08:41	BitPuffin	you should make it so that you can use babel to run
11:08:49	BitPuffin	that would be awesome when making a software
11:08:56	BitPuffin	babel run
11:09:00	BitPuffin	and it compiles and run
11:09:01	BitPuffin	s
11:10:15	dom96	is it so hard to do: babel build && ./app? :P
11:10:54	BitPuffin	yes ;_;
11:11:52	dom96	also what should that do when there are multiple binaries?
11:12:07	BitPuffin	well then you could pass an argument
11:12:10	BitPuffin	babel run server
11:12:12	BitPuffin	babel run clien
11:12:13	BitPuffin	t
11:12:57	BitPuffin	so in the config you could specify an alias for all the binaries or otherwise just use the binary name as a param
11:13:03	dom96	yeah, ok. Submit an issue then to remind me I guess.
11:13:19	BitPuffin	so if my client is awesomecoolgame I want to alias that to "game"
11:13:34	BitPuffin	and maybe the server is awesomecoolgame-server I want to alias that to "server"
11:13:44	dom96	gah, just rename it to server then
11:13:51	BitPuffin	never!
11:13:57	dom96	I'm trying to keep it simple.
11:14:04	dom96	I haven't even released the damn thing yet!
11:14:06	BitPuffin	it is very simple
11:14:15	BitPuffin	you don't HAVE to alias
11:14:19	BitPuffin	it should just be an option
11:14:41	BitPuffin	if no alias is defined (or even if it is) you should be able to do babel run exenam
11:14:41	BitPuffin	e
11:14:44	dom96	it's not that easy
11:15:01	BitPuffin	a hash map and you are done
11:15:02	dom96	specifying the aliases in the .babel file will require some extra parsing or something
11:15:25	BitPuffin	it reads .babel file and it hashes "server" to the value "myawesomecoolsuperspecialgame-server"
11:19:57	BitPuffin	dom96: https://github.com/nimrod-code/babel/issues/10
11:19:59	dom96	yeah, ok. Maybe in version 0.2
11:20:28	BitPuffin	you mean run? or just the alias part?
11:20:41	dom96	both probably
11:21:04	BitPuffin	okay
11:21:14	*	BitPuffin is trying to grasp matrix cofactor
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11:23:49	BitPuffin	ah
11:23:51	BitPuffin	well it's simple
11:25:40	*	BitPuffin was confused by the notation
11:27:37	BitPuffin	okay so tomorrow when I finish linagl
11:27:57	BitPuffin	shoud I call the minor proc "minor" or "min"?
11:28:11	BitPuffin	min kind of sounds like it would be the minimum value is the matrix
11:28:30	dom96	"minor"; "min" means "minimum" :P
11:28:43	BitPuffin	but then should cofactor be cof? or cofactor?
11:29:03	dom96	the latter
11:29:10	BitPuffin	cofactor?
11:29:48	dom96	y
11:30:22	BitPuffin	but then shouldn't det be renamed determinant and sub subtract, mul mulitiply?
11:30:26	BitPuffin	etc
11:31:04	dom96	'sub' should be `-` and 'mul' should be `*`
11:31:06	dom96	I guess?
11:31:12	dom96	'det' I have no idea
11:31:14	BitPuffin	dom96: they are too, there are aliases
11:31:17	EXetoC	some names are more common than others
11:31:18	BitPuffin	https://bitbucket.org/TheLonelyByte/linagl/src/c0315f2199e5bf514af2245be402f8f374093a37/src/linagl/matrix.nim?at=default
11:31:38	BitPuffin	it just feels like calling it "minor" destroys all the established convention
11:32:50	dom96	why do you have all these aliases?
11:33:03	EXetoC	though I'd probably be fine with 'cof' if I knew all the linalg terms, but min is often 'minimum' indeed
11:33:03	dom96	Why not just have `==` instead of an equal proc and an equals alias?
11:33:04	BitPuffin	zahary: how is the separating generic value stuff going? it would be super useful to have it when finishing all of linagl tomorrow
11:33:38	BitPuffin	dom96: because some people likes having those aliases
11:33:47	BitPuffin	dom96: I am one of those people
11:33:59	EXetoC	but then again I don't think 'minimum' for matrices would make sense, so that reduces the confusion somewhat
11:34:21	BitPuffin	dom96: for example in a line with a lot of ?-*(&%/ stuff going on "mul" is more distinguishing than *
11:34:22	EXetoC	dom96: it's a time consuming game, but yeah it was fun
11:34:51	BitPuffin	EXetoC: why wouldn't it? it could return the smallest element in the matrix
11:34:54	dom96	what does 'minor' actually do?
11:35:02	BitPuffin	not that I am sure tha's even useful
11:35:20	BitPuffin	dom96: it deletes row i and column j and then does the determinant of that
11:36:10	dom96	hrm, well I dunno. Do whatever feels right for you. But most people when they see 'min' will think 'minimum'
11:36:23	BitPuffin	maybe
11:36:26	dom96	Unless they learned to think of it as 'minor' in this context.
11:36:35	BitPuffin	but in the context of a matrix I am not sure
11:36:35	dom96	I have no experience with libraries like these.
11:38:05	BitPuffin	actually I wonder if minor should even be a part of the public interface
11:38:14	BitPuffin	it might only be useful when constructing other operations
11:38:55	BitPuffin	like when computing determinants and inverse
11:39:06	zahary	BitPuffin, I'll probably commit the fixes today
11:39:33	BitPuffin	zahary: amazing, thank you
11:40:01	BitPuffin	zahary: notify me if you do please :)
11:41:40	BitPuffin	would casting a [N][N] array no an [N*N] array be safe?
11:41:58	BitPuffin	I mean the memory should be identical
11:45:29	BitPuffin	might be useful when people are using arbitrary matrices
11:45:37	BitPuffin	I'll have a squarematrix type that is optimized
11:47:12	BitPuffin	so if they for example multiply a 3x48 by a 48x3 matrix and get a 3x3 matrix back and then pass that to a squarematrix proc, then it should be temporarily cast to a squarematrix and do the operation in the optimized way and then cast back
11:47:24	BitPuffin	or just return a squarematrix type
11:56:53	BitPuffin	hmm, actually the sub proc coud be confused with a submatrix
12:08:53	dom96	hrm, this looks fun: http://aishowdown.com/
12:11:05	zahary	nimrod should provide the same guarantees as C (regarding the matrices). but weren't your library using a fixed sized matrices? the generic procs will be compiled for each value of M and N (so you can put the optimized code behind a simple when statement in the generic proc)
12:12:42	BitPuffin	zahary: you mean hardcoded sizes? no, they are arbitrarily sized, you can have an RxC matrix
12:13:19	zahary	I meant they are not dynamically sized (M and N are fixed parameters for the generic type)
12:13:41	BitPuffin	Oh you mean you can't append to them etc?
12:14:01	BitPuffin	like dynamically expanding the dimensions
12:14:32	zahary	e.g. an analogy would be arrays vs sequences - arrays are fixed size, sequences are dynamically resizable
12:14:37	BitPuffin	zahary: but yeah I was thinking about using a when statement for that
12:14:40	BitPuffin	zahary: exactly
12:16:28	BitPuffin	zahary: when R == C: cast[TSquareMatrix[T, C*C] m or whetever the syntax is
12:16:37	BitPuffin	ah
12:16:52	BitPuffin	cast[TSquareMatrix[T, R*C], m] ?
12:18:03	zahary	what I meant is that you don't need a separate type for TSquareMatric
12:18:04	BitPuffin	zahary: actually a when isn't even needed, I can just make a proc that takes a TMatrix[T, N, N]
12:18:31	BitPuffin	zahary: I do though, because TSquareMatirx is a single dimensional array
12:18:39	BitPuffin	zahary: and TMatrix is arbitrarily sized
12:18:51	BitPuffin	it is the indexing that is optimized
12:18:59	EXetoC	it's in the manual. cast[T](x)
12:19:05	zahary	… because all optimisations you can think of can be applied as code behind when statements in the generic TMatrix[T, N, M] type
12:19:14	BitPuffin	EXetoC: I know, I just didn't wanna look it up now, too much time
12:20:09	BitPuffin	zahary: well a single dimensional array for a TSquareMatrix is indexed like m[d*c + row]
12:20:23	BitPuffin	so I can optimize by storing the d*c calculation for each column
12:20:43	BitPuffin	I can't do that with a multidimensional array
12:20:52	BitPuffin	it will do the d*c calculation for each index
12:21:23	zahary	this kind of thinking should apply for any case - not just square matrices
12:21:24	BitPuffin	zahary: or do you mean that I should cast after the when? do the optimization and then cast back?
12:22:12	BitPuffin	wait it is true for RxC dimensional matrices too?
12:22:51	BitPuffin	crap it is..
12:23:18	BitPuffin	well then TMatrix will be refactored to be a single dimensional array!
12:23:25	zahary	unless I miss something, yes. the C compiler is likely to produce the same optimization behind your back even with regular 2-diminsional indexing, but that's another story
12:23:46	BitPuffin	zahary: it might, but should I trust that it will?
12:24:33	zahary	the array implementation is not bad for a such a library - gives you more control indeed
12:25:14	zahary	would you support changing row-major and column-major layouts at compile time?
12:25:40	BitPuffin	zahary: not unless someone really wants it like that
12:25:57	BitPuffin	zahary: but then how do I know when a matrix that is passed it is a row major or column major?
12:26:44	BitPuffin	zahary: although I do want to be able to give the option to write a literal as a row major (because it looks better in code) and then store it column major internally
12:26:44	zahary	I guess, it should be an additional generic parameter - my commit will also feature default param values so most users that don't care won't have to specify it
12:27:18	BitPuffin	oh okay cool
12:27:24	BitPuffin	well depending on how much time I have I will add it
12:27:34	BitPuffin	if I don't have enough time now it will be added later
12:27:36	EXetoC	zahary: for type params?
12:27:42	BitPuffin	EXetoC: yeah
12:27:50	BitPuffin	anyways
12:27:52	BitPuffin	back to reading
12:28:11	EXetoC	I guess it's just parsed now, but ignored
12:28:24	zahary	EXetoC, yes (and the params are not necessary types anymore, they could be anything)
12:28:55	BitPuffin	also I found a bug with generics
12:29:13	BitPuffin	https://bitbucket.org/TheLonelyByte/linagl/src/c0315f2199e5bf514af2245be402f8f374093a37/src/linagl/matrix.nim?at=default#cl-140
12:29:38	BitPuffin	these two matrices shouldn't even try to multiply each other because it should be guaranteed at compile time
12:30:05	BitPuffin	because they don't have the same value for N
12:30:14	BitPuffin	yet it goes ahead anyways and tries to do it
12:30:40	BitPuffin	and throws some error regarding the dot product because it can't dot product a 3d vector by a 2d vector or something
12:31:05	BitPuffin	which should btw also be guaranteed at compile time that it doesn't even try
12:31:20	zahary	probably range types are compared properly
12:31:24	zahary	are not
12:31:43	BitPuffin	might be yeah
12:32:54	BitPuffin	well I cannot refactor TMatrix until tomorrow anyways because I can't multiply ranges
12:33:19	BitPuffin	or well I guess I might be able to do high(R)*high(C) (assuming that they start from 0)
12:34:04	zahary	btw, some of the functions can be written in a simpler style
12:34:04	zahary	for example, you could have equal like this:
12:34:04	zahary	proc equal*(a, b: TMatrix): bool {.noSideEffect.} =
12:34:32	zahary	you can read the section about type classes in the manual for explanation
12:35:39	BitPuffin	really? and they would both be of the same size?
12:36:06	BitPuffin	I did kind of think to myself that there is probably a better way because it was kind of redundant
12:36:47	zahary	yes, they will be the same type unless you say
12:36:48	zahary	proc equal(a, b: distinct TMatrix)
12:37:11	BitPuffin	and that would allow them to be different?
12:37:14	BitPuffin	I see
12:37:14	BitPuffin	cool
12:37:27	BitPuffin	inc(productivity) # in the future
12:37:47	zahary	the same applies for add(a, b: TMatrix): TMatrix (the return type is also the same)
12:38:22	BitPuffin	ahaa
12:39:04	BitPuffin	although however it wouldn't be all that bad to be able to do i in 0..N-1 or whatever or actually I guess high(a) looks better
12:39:59	zahary	inside the proc, you can have TMatrix.N and TMatrix.M which will be the generic param values
12:40:30	zahary	but yeah, high and low are even nicer here
12:40:44	BitPuffin	right! forgot about that!
12:41:42	EXetoC	is that use of distinct not implemented yet?
12:42:43	zahary	everything I mentioned should work
12:44:20	BitPuffin	hmm, I'll probably be able to get away with checking the magnitude of the determinant for checking if a matrix is non-singular, I'll add a todo for using a condition number
12:51:17	EXetoC	didn't work when I first tried it. will try again later
13:02:18	EXetoC	zahary: were you going to implement something related to constraints also?
13:10:03	zahary	there was a bug related to constraints in my branch - it's not visible on master
13:44:05	EXetoC	ok
13:44:39	EXetoC	dom96: up for a game or two today?
13:44:44	EXetoC	or ten
13:44:49	dom96	0 A.D.?
13:45:01	EXetoC	yeah
13:45:38	dom96	sure, but later.
13:45:47	EXetoC	gonna pwn you this time, by rushing right from the start, just so you know
13:46:04	dom96	You gave up way too early yesterday!
13:47:28	dom96	As soon as I finish my little blog generator I will play, or probably earlier if I get annoyed with HTML heh
13:47:44	EXetoC	what do you mean? my military units died in about 30 seconds
13:48:14	dom96	So? I still had a long way to go. I wouldn't have been able to destroy you with that little army.
13:49:13	EXetoC	might take some time to destroy the buildings, that's all
13:50:35	EXetoC	and any newly recruited fighter would've been faced with a quick and painful death :>
13:50:42	dom96	I don't think so.
13:51:11	dom96	and didn't you have a second city centre?
13:53:49	BitPuffin	gosh 0ad is fun
13:53:55	EXetoC	that didn't really help
13:55:05	dom96	BitPuffin: You wanna play? :D
13:55:39	BitPuffin	dom96: I DO! but I have to ship this game you know :( stop enticing me!
13:55:57	BitPuffin	from now on this discussion happens in #nimrod-gaming lol
13:56:04	dom96	Come on, you can take a break :P
13:56:11	dom96	You know you want to :P
13:56:12	BitPuffin	I cannot!
13:56:31	EXetoC	nimrod-ot :>
13:56:47	BitPuffin	only 622 pages to go!
13:56:53	BitPuffin	this day
13:57:26	dom96	Off topic talk is fine here I think. It's not like this channel is super busy with on topic talk currently anyway
13:58:31	BitPuffin	well yes it is, but you guys are alluring me with all that fun talk :(
13:59:15	dom96	I really want to play this game! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAcAd1fUiy8
13:59:35	BitPuffin	dom96: ME TOO! It is going to be amazing!
13:59:47	dom96	:D
14:00:16	BitPuffin	you a horror fan too?
14:00:34	dom96	Wouldn't say a fan. But I do enjoy it.
14:02:09	dom96	This game looks like it has a good back story and I enjoy games with good sci-fi storylines
14:02:19	BitPuffin	funny how an indie title like that has better graphics than most other AAA UE games
14:02:38	dom96	hah, so true. And this is only an Alpha!
14:03:22	BitPuffin	honestly that is not far from photoreal for the most part
14:07:39	dom96	You can really do amazing things with games like Routine which take place in space. I can just imagine walking into a part of Routine's moonbase which shows you the whole moon, that would be an amazing view.
14:08:01	BitPuffin	indeed
14:08:20	BitPuffin	talk about dear esther in space! lol
14:08:58	dom96	Haven't played Dear Esther yet, even though I own it lol
14:09:05	BitPuffin	do it
14:09:10	BitPuffin	doesn't take much time
14:10:25	*	dom96 will
14:10:38	Associat0r	Elite: Dangerous is gonna be the ultimate game
14:10:43	EXetoC	new games are overrated. day of defeat ftw :>
14:12:04	dom96	Associat0r: ooh, awesome. Reminds me of Freelancer.
14:12:17	*	dom96 loves space games
14:12:37	Associat0r	Freelancer is nothing like Elite: Dangerous
14:13:08	BitPuffin	doesn't mean it can't remind him of the game though
14:13:21	Associat0r	dom96: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL9E1E1F7AA6193498
14:13:27	dom96	indeed. But I am curious how it is different.
14:14:08	Associat0r	http://www.youtube.com/user/Isinona?feature=watch
14:14:36	Associat0r	well ED is based on scientifically based realistic galaxy
14:14:50	Associat0r	with freeform interplanetary flight
14:15:03	Associat0r	and utilitarian ship design that's more believable
14:15:19	dom96	cool.
14:15:39	Associat0r	check the newsletters here http://us2.campaign-archive1.com/home/?u=dcbf6b86b4b0c7d1c21b73b1e&id=eb767c006f
14:16:50	Associat0r	and dev diaries http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL7glm5rbPHKyBblUEjmm2PFkwJ4ykuz6s
14:18:23	Associat0r	they did an AMA to some time ago http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/15od2s/i_am_david_braben_cocreator_of_elite_creator_of/
14:18:46	dom96	Even Elite 2 looks very impressive.
14:19:05	Associat0r	yeah, this game left a mark on me
14:19:15	Associat0r	I haven't been impressed by a game ever since
14:20:36	Associat0r	3 was nice too with procedural textures but was quite buggy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUn4hQdpfPc
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15:09:08	Associat0r	hmm that previous devdiary link doesn't cover the latest ones seen here http://www.youtube.com/user/FrontierDevelopments/videos
17:19:45	EXetoC	dom96: not annoyed by html yet? enjoying it?
17:20:09	EXetoC	the web 2.0 rox, aiiiiight
17:21:07	*	dom96 is close to being done
17:21:40	dom96	My blog looks sexy, and the blog generator generates the correct things.
17:23:30	dom96	And i've got mac & cheese cooking :D
17:40:27	EXetoC	nom
18:06:16	dom96	And done! https://github.com/dom96/ipsumgenera
18:08:28	dom96	EXetoC: so, wanna play?
18:08:45	EXetoC	great
18:08:58	EXetoC	I don't know. have I done anything useful today?
18:09:07	EXetoC	no I haven't, but let's play anyway
18:09:11	dom96	lol
18:09:28	EXetoC	:p
18:09:49	EXetoC	how was it sluggish? unstable frame rate?
18:10:07	dom96	moving the camera just feels sluggish
18:11:08	dom96	I am playing in windowed mode though
18:11:10	dom96	Maybe that's why
18:11:32	dom96	Anyway: 94.14.112.201
18:11:53	EXetoC	yeah it might be a little choppy
18:12:23	dom96	The game actually uses amazingly little memory.
18:13:51	EXetoC	good
18:14:29	reactormonk	dom96, kk, thanks
18:31:56	*	Mat2 joined #nimrod
18:31:59	Mat2	hi @ all
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18:57:50	*	Mat2 wahthcing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGw-cy0ylCc
18:58:08	Mat2	^watching
19:09:29	BitPuffin	does nimrod have atan2? (no time to check sorry)
19:09:54	Mat2	hi BitPuffin
19:10:02	BitPuffin	hey Mat2
19:10:14	BitPuffin	Mat2: if schedule happens then linagl will be done tomorrow :)
19:11:11	Mat2	nice :)
19:17:29	dom96	woo, I win :P
19:18:17	Mat2	hi dom96, ehm, you win what ?
19:18:49	dom96	A game of 0 A.D versus EXetoC :D
19:19:09	Mat2	*g* ok
19:28:03	EXetoC	still don't have a clue how to manage things
19:28:26	Mat2	hi EXetoC
19:28:49	EXetoC	hi
19:32:18	Araq	seriously?
19:32:32	Araq	"origin" cannot pause&continue a 10GB download?
19:32:41	Araq	wtf
19:32:44	BitPuffin	origin?
19:32:53	Araq	never mind
19:33:05	Araq	I'm wrong, it did pick up where it left finally
19:33:17	EXetoC	oh good. 56k nightmare otherwise :>
19:34:01	Araq	hi Mat2
19:34:10	Araq	ever implemented a tracing JIT?
19:36:15	EXetoC	dom96: rematch later?
19:37:36	EXetoC	I told you my strategy before, but I didn't feel like executing it this time
19:37:45	dom96	yeah, sure.
19:38:08	EXetoC	it's true
19:38:24	dom96	no, I mean. Yeah, sure, rematch later heh
19:38:30	EXetoC	ha
19:38:33	EXetoC	alright
19:39:55	EXetoC	I hope there's a way to select only a certain type of unit
19:40:24	EXetoC	but I guess you can just select some units, and then deselect some by clicking on any of the icons
19:40:43	dom96	Yeah, you can also double click a unit
19:40:51	dom96	Although it currently selects all of that type
19:41:00	dom96	It should really select them if they're close
19:41:32	EXetoC	you could zoom in first
19:44:32	BitPuffin	there we go arctan2 did exist
19:45:06	Araq	BitPuffin: you know about the index, right?
19:45:40	BitPuffin	the index?
19:45:46	BitPuffin	you mean to the left?
19:46:01	Araq	http://nimrod-code.org/theindex.html
19:46:11	Araq	ctrl+F on it
19:46:26	BitPuffin	sweet
19:49:54	*	BitPuffin always misses such things
19:49:59	BitPuffin	overlooks*?
20:24:28	EXetoC	booyakasha
20:24:43	BitPuffin	makes sense to say I would imagine
20:27:06	EXetoC	I gS o
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21:10:22	BitPuffin	wtf
21:10:31	BitPuffin	how does this wrap an angle within 0..twopi
21:10:48	BitPuffin	a -= floor(a/twopi) * twopi
21:11:16	BitPuffin	isn't that nearly equal to a -= a
21:11:37	BitPuffin	except it doesn't have the same amount of fractions
21:12:38	BitPuffin	i tjust rounds down to the nearsest integer
21:15:11	EXetoC	I just validated it in python
21:16:06	BitPuffin	EXetoC: and the result?
21:17:50	EXetoC	BitPuffin: it seems to do exactly that
21:17:56	BitPuffin	EXetoC: how the fuck
21:22:21	Mat2	well, angular funtions define only a distingt range, so the multiply n of a fraction number m by n maps naturally near the fraction n itself
21:22:25	Associat0r	dom96: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=GJLCyfJr4cI&t=340
21:22:30	BitPuffin	EXetoC: math.floor(blah/twopi) * twopi just returns twopi for me
21:23:19	BitPuffin	actually it seems to vary on input
21:23:31	BitPuffin	apparently my arbitrary test case 9.3 screwed me over lol
21:24:30	Mat2	if the range is exceeded
21:25:44	BitPuffin	I am starting to see what's going on
21:25:50	BitPuffin	but I am not positive I understand why it works
21:26:12	BitPuffin	oooh
21:26:13	BitPuffin	of course
21:26:49	BitPuffin	dividing by twopi will give us the amount of revolutions when we floor it
21:27:01	BitPuffin	then we multiply that by twopi in order to get the amount to subtract
21:27:10	BitPuffin	clever mr math book, very clever
21:28:47	EXetoC	neat
21:29:10	BitPuffin	EXetoC: indeed, definitely a nice trick
21:38:58	EXetoC	this reminded me to use plotting applications more often
21:39:10	EXetoC	or at all :>
21:39:33	BitPuffin	hmm?
21:40:19	EXetoC	like gnuplot, for visualizing the relations of individual terms for example
21:40:52	BitPuffin	never used such software
21:40:57	BitPuffin	seems very useful though
21:41:34	EXetoC	"plot sin(x)/x". pretty straightforward
21:44:47	BitPuffin	hmm well actually I have used one a bit I guess
21:45:26	BitPuffin	geogebra
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22:04:23	Mat2	ciao
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