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| 00:32:16 | OrionPKM | something like caniuse would be great for nimrod's docs; where you start typing, and it shows relevant things instantly |
| 00:32:30 | OrionPKM | http://caniuse.com/ |
| 00:32:46 | OrionPKM | then build a webview of that into aporia |
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| 00:34:00 | Araq | yeah, nobody uses a browser |
| 00:34:16 | Araq | let's embed a browser in aporia |
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| 00:34:39 | Araq | the rest of the idea is good though :P |
| 00:34:41 | OrionPKM | the benefit, since apparently it's not obvious |
| 00:34:50 | OrionPKM | is that you dont need to rebuild aporia to get doc updates |
| 00:34:58 | OrionPKM | and you dont need to reinvent the wheel on everything else |
| 00:35:12 | Araq | huh? |
| 00:35:15 | Varriount | Araq, but Eclipse does it! |
| 00:35:16 | OrionPKM | and you dont need to leave your IDE to get documentation |
| 00:35:18 | Varriount | ;3 |
| 00:35:32 | OrionPKM | you can just hit some hotkeys |
| 00:35:34 | Araq | OrionPKM: aporia already embeds the docs |
| 00:35:46 | OrionPKM | how do you search them? |
| 00:35:55 | Araq | but you're suggesting a website with search feature |
| 00:36:03 | OrionPKM | I am |
| 00:36:13 | Araq | so use a browser to view the website |
| 00:36:17 | * | brson quit (Client Quit) |
| 00:36:19 | OrionPKM | thats the idea |
| 00:36:26 | Araq | how hard can it be? |
| 00:36:32 | OrionPKM | not very |
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| 00:36:42 | OrionPKM | especially if jsdoc was included |
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| 00:36:44 | OrionPKM | :P |
| 00:36:57 | Araq | sorry, haven't looked at your PR |
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| 00:37:06 | Araq | yet |
| 00:42:51 | BitPuffin | Varriount: macbook |
| 00:45:50 | EXetoC | gorge + link. eeeexcellent |
| 00:46:43 | EXetoC | BitPuffin: are you gonna need freetype? |
| 00:47:10 | BitPuffin | EXetoC: probably yeah |
| 00:47:47 | BitPuffin | not for the project I've been talking about though |
| 00:47:50 | BitPuffin | but maybe some of the others |
| 00:50:34 | psquid | I feel like Windows doesn't like either Babel or Nimrod. http://pastebin.ca/2511017 |
| 00:51:26 | Araq | psquid: error: size of array 'assert_numbits' is negative has been added to keep your sanity |
| 00:51:40 | Araq | it means nimrod disagrees with gcc on the size of a pointer |
| 00:51:58 | Araq | so nimrod is 32 bit and your gcc 64 bit or the other way round |
| 00:52:10 | Araq | and fyi I use babel and nimrod on windows all the time |
| 00:52:45 | psquid | Aha. :o |
| 00:53:58 | psquid | Well, Nimrod is definitely 64-bit, so I guess I need to figure out how best to proceed with getting a 64-bit GCC. Probably not from MinGW, since the installer they use now didn't give me any (obvious) choice of that option. |
| 00:54:08 | EXetoC | BitPuffin: give me $50 first :p |
| 00:54:42 | Araq | well that's surprising, how did you manage to build a 64bit nimrod with a 32bit gcc? |
| 00:55:22 | BitPuffin | EXetoC: nein |
| 00:55:40 | EXetoC | :/ |
| 00:56:39 | psquid | Araq: I didn't, the zip I ended up grabbing from build.nimrod-lang.org had it already compiled. |
| 00:56:59 | Araq | ah, that makes sense |
| 00:57:15 | Varriount | Hm. Is it better to do a pre-emptive check for a file's read only attribute, on merely reset a file's attribute's after it's deletion has failed? |
| 00:57:29 | Varriount | *or merely |
| 00:57:30 | psquid | Though I think I also grabbed the csources, so I may well just get the current git HEAD and then plug csources into that. |
| 00:58:09 | Araq | Varriount: I think that saves 1 roundtrip to the kernel in general so it should be faster |
| 00:58:09 | Varriount | psquid, if you need 64 bit binaries built for nimrod, I can help. |
| 00:58:19 | Varriount | Araq, which one is faster? |
| 00:58:43 | Araq | checking the readonly attribute only if it failed already |
| 00:59:14 | Varriount | Ok. It'll lead to slightly more nested (indented?) code, just so you know. |
| 00:59:32 | Araq | I know my tolerance for nesting is high |
| 00:59:54 | psquid | Hm, actually it'd probably be better to get a 64-bit GCC in the long run, since I'll be building 64-bit code on a 64-bit box then. |
| 01:00:16 | psquid | Anyway! Thanks for the explanation, Araq. :) |
| 01:00:43 | Araq | well one used to get random crashes instead :P |
| 01:00:48 | Varriount | psquid, you running windows? |
| 01:00:53 | Araq | this check really is helpful |
| 01:01:20 | psquid | Varriount: In a VM, yes. I need to test stuff on it, amongst other things. |
| 01:01:43 | Varriount | psquid, http://mingw-w64.sourceforge.net/ |
| 01:02:19 | psquid | My regular OS is Linux, though. Which made it a lot easier to get all this stuff installed. Windows really needs a (good; I'm aware of the attempts, I just don't like them) package manager. xD |
| 01:02:26 | psquid | Ooh, nice. |
| 01:02:51 | Varriount | Unless you have infinite patience and knowledge of compiler internals, I beg of you, for the love of all that is holy, do *not* try to build/bootstrap a 64 bit gcc |
| 01:03:08 | Varriount | Just download the magic binaries that are provided. |
| 01:03:20 | Araq | yeah linux is king here. my package manager doesn't let me update my distribution |
| 01:03:33 | Araq | and x11 crashes randomly |
| 01:03:48 | Varriount | psquid, Also, don't try building gtk. You'll just give yourself a migraine. |
| 01:04:26 | psquid | Varriount: Noted. |
| 01:04:28 | Varriount | Circular dependancies + 64 bit complications = Migraine. |
| 01:04:59 | Demos | well just looking at GTK will give you a migraine, best argument for not using C ever |
| 01:05:00 | psquid | Just developing against gtk gives me enough migraines anyway. xD |
| 01:05:00 | EXetoC | it should just be "./configure; make; make install" :p |
| 01:05:15 | Varriount | EXetoC, I wish. |
| 01:05:15 | * | BitPuffin quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 01:05:45 | Varriount | It's nearly never that simple in linux-package-ported-to-windows world. |
| 01:06:01 | psquid | "136 important updates are available" Ah yes, that's what happens when I don't use this VM in a long time. xD |
| 01:06:09 | EXetoC | oh you mean like that |
| 01:06:57 | Araq | psquid: I got 1526 on this linux machine but can't update |
| 01:07:23 | Araq | fails for some reason and I can't be bothered to look into it |
| 01:07:53 | Araq | and this always happens for me after some time anyway so I end up burning new installation DVDs |
| 01:08:20 | Araq | I guess I use the wrong distro, but I tried lots of ... :P |
| 01:08:42 | psquid | Heh. |
| 01:08:58 | psquid | I tend to not get along with anything apt-based. :P |
| 01:09:33 | psquid | Though given I'm running Gentoo, I'm hardly about to suggest you should use what I do. xD |
| 01:11:46 | * | Demos does not like gentoo |
| 01:11:57 | Demos | you could run OpenBSD |
| 01:12:05 | Araq | well don't tell me win needs a package manager please |
| 01:12:13 | Araq | it doesn't |
| 01:12:20 | Demos | doing package management when the packages are not FOSS is really hard |
| 01:12:48 | Demos | and with the standard "I am the best program I will put my icon everywhere in case you forget" attitude of windows apps... |
| 01:12:51 | Araq | package managers are mostly hacks necessary for unix's stupid directory hierarchy |
| 01:12:52 | EXetoC | because installing and updating libs is trivial |
| 01:13:04 | EXetoC | really? |
| 01:13:47 | Araq | we have a good package manager anyway. |
| 01:13:55 | Araq | It's called steam. |
| 01:14:13 | Araq | really cool, forces you to download a 5 GB update before you can play the game |
| 01:14:39 | Araq | if that's not progress then I don't know |
| 01:15:50 | Araq | good night |
| 01:16:39 | EXetoC | pacman -S freetype2. I'm pretty sure I like that kind of convenience |
| 01:17:03 | Varriount | EXetoC, been on the VNUG yet? |
| 01:17:08 | EXetoC | no |
| 01:17:16 | Demos | but you should not have to install libraries in the first place |
| 01:17:21 | Demos | it is dumb |
| 01:17:43 | Demos | and it means we windows users have to deal with your nix apps having like 15 shared library dependencies |
| 01:17:48 | Demos | and porting them is hard |
| 01:18:28 | EXetoC | you have apps, and then there's the development aspect |
| 01:18:55 | Varriount | Demos, don't forget the circular dependancies |
| 01:19:06 | Varriount | And the 10 minute long configure sessions |
| 01:20:23 | Demos | I will admit that MSBuild is way more fucked up than autotools is |
| 01:20:37 | Varriount | Demos, oh, I agree entirely. |
| 01:21:04 | Varriount | The fact that you pretty much have to use VS to do anything beyond configuration sucks. |
| 01:21:07 | EXetoC | xml, right? |
| 01:21:07 | Demos | but we have cmake, so we don't need to deal with it. Although I prefer the nimrod approach of using CTFE to make a build system out of the compiler |
| 01:21:15 | Varriount | CTFE? |
| 01:21:26 | Demos | Compile time function eval, term is from D, but nimrod has it |
| 01:21:32 | Varriount | Ah. |
| 01:21:48 | Demos | and yeah, MSBuild is XML |
| 01:22:12 | Demos | because when I hear "build system" I think "I need markup" |
| 01:22:36 | Varriount | Demos, not only markup, but user-unfriendly markup |
| 01:23:08 | Demos | honestly, XML is not that bad if you are actually using it for markup. But nobody actually uses it that way |
| 01:23:22 | Varriount | They use it for configuration. |
| 01:23:35 | Demos | which is it not very good for |
| 01:23:50 | Demos | and as an alternitive to databases..... |
| 01:24:32 | psquid | Demos: On the libraries topic, if they shouldn't need to be separate installs, how do you propose that programs should reuse existing bodies of code without building copies of it into the compiled program? (Even with dead-code elimination, that's still going to result in duplication in the event that you have more than one program using the same code. Though granted Nimrod does a good enough job with DCE to |
| 01:24:34 | psquid | mostly alleviate that.) |
| 01:25:14 | Demos | psquid, just copy the code into the executable. Heck the OS can deal with some of that as well |
| 01:25:42 | Demos | IE. Lib1 has all the code in one page sized chunk and if two people use it than they can share |
| 01:25:51 | Demos | but yeah, duplicate the code |
| 01:26:15 | Demos | shared libs may still be good for like hotloading and plugins |
| 01:26:30 | psquid | Fair enough. Actually, with an OS designed for it, appending libraries to the executable and letting the OS handle deduping sounds pretty good. The trouble is, we don't have any OSes which do that yet. xD |
| 01:26:44 | Demos | linux can do some of it I think |
| 01:26:53 | psquid | Quite possibly! |
| 01:26:55 | Demos | you would need to have that be on like function granularity though |
| 01:26:58 | Varriount | ^ I think I read about such an extension |
| 01:27:06 | Demos | which is a problem unless you want to have each function on its own page "D |
| 01:27:35 | Demos | actually MSVC can generate CIL output files that can be linked function by function |
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| 01:27:59 | Demos | and besides I really do not care if my executable is a few megs bigger if it means I do not have to deal with dependencies |
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| 01:28:15 | EXetoC | some libs are massive though |
| 01:28:56 | psquid | So apply the same trick on the filesystem level - use a filesystem which dedups. :P |
| 01:29:01 | Demos | apperently shared libs did not even help xorg that much, although my source for that is like cat-v so take with salt |
| 01:29:03 | psquid | And those *do* already exist! |
| 01:29:07 | EXetoC | and where do you stop? at most before the windowing system, right? :p |
| 01:29:09 | Demos | that too! |
| 01:30:49 | Demos | I mean consider this: on windows nobody actually shares libraries anyway |
| 01:30:50 | Varriount | Demos, care to comment on this piece of code? -> https://gist.github.com/Varriount/8015894 |
| 01:31:06 | Demos | and when they do they ALWAYS distribute the installer for the lib with their software |
| 01:31:08 | Varriount | I'm pondering using templates to remove the duplicated code. |
| 01:31:54 | Demos | what to translage DeleteFile to DeleteFileW on windows |
| 01:31:57 | psquid | Demos: And my Windows partitions always have considerably more space used for near enough the same installed stuff. Though disk space is cheap enough anyway these days. xD |
| 01:32:22 | Varriount | Demos, pretty much |
| 01:32:31 | Demos | psquid, sure, but consider that shared libs (which windows apps use but do not share) always have all their symbols, no striping |
| 01:32:38 | EXetoC | hm |
| 01:32:47 | Demos | there /may/ be a compiler option to do that for you |
| 01:33:05 | Demos | I know there is a compiler option to change stuff like sprintf to sptintf_s |
| 01:33:11 | Demos | but just deal with it |
| 01:33:11 | psquid | True enough. |
| 01:33:24 | Varriount | Demos, I'm talking about the two sections of code |
| 01:33:45 | Varriount | There's one for dealing with Wide string windows apis (unicode) and one for ansi |
| 01:33:49 | Demos | yeah, but presumably that calls some windows functions at some point |
| 01:33:53 | EXetoC | maybe there should be a proper abstraction for that |
| 01:33:59 | Demos | oh that is windows and windows |
| 01:34:01 | Demos | not windows and nix |
| 01:34:02 | Demos | sorry |
| 01:34:06 | EXetoC | rather than having to create a template every time |
| 01:34:25 | Varriount | EXetoC, things this are sprinkled all throughout the stdlib. |
| 01:34:47 | Demos | yeah do it, sounds neat |
| 01:35:13 | Varriount | I think it's done in the sake of performance. Auto-wrapping the api calls would mean creation of a new wide string for each call, unless a caching mechanism was used. |
| 01:36:14 | Demos | I dont think that would matter |
| 01:36:19 | Demos | and you need to do it in any case |
| 01:37:04 | Varriount | Demos, I mean, for each and every api call. In the posted code, that means that 'f' (the wide string filename) would be duplicated about 3 times. |
| 01:37:11 | Demos | but if UNICODE and _UNICODE are not defined when it is passed to MSVC the wide versions of the apicalls will not even exist |
| 01:37:11 | Varriount | Instead of the one time. |
| 01:37:31 | Varriount | Demos, "when useWinUnicode:" |
| 01:37:44 | Demos | which at some point defines UNICODE and _UNICODE |
| 01:38:05 | Demos | anyway, presumably you could make the template only widen once |
| 01:38:36 | Varriount | Demos, a template for that entire function part, yes. Not an automatic converter for windows api calls though. |
| 01:39:13 | Demos | you could make the template require you have already widened the string |
| 01:39:20 | Demos | and just take both versions |
| 01:39:31 | Varriount | now you've lost me. |
| 01:39:44 | Demos | disadvantage is that you still widen when doing only ASCII |
| 01:40:04 | Demos | the template has access to both the widened and narrow string |
| 01:41:44 | EXetoC | maybe all the function pairs should be wrapped |
| 01:42:18 | EXetoC | A more hacky approach would be to have a macro that appends a W conditionally. I'm sure it's possible |
| 01:44:14 | Varriount | EXetoC, their are parts of os.nim which define templates that call one function in a pair or the other |
| 01:44:26 | EXetoC | awesome |
| 01:44:40 | Varriount | But, I don't know if I should follow the convention.. |
| 01:44:53 | Demos | oh no! a new version of KSP is out... and right before an exam as well |
| 01:45:01 | Varriount | KSP? |
| 01:45:11 | Demos | Kerpal Space Program |
| 01:45:13 | psquid | Kerbal Space Program, probably |
| 01:45:14 | psquid | yeah |
| 01:45:31 | Demos | not quite as bad as SpaceChem but still |
| 01:45:40 | shodan45 | :O |
| 01:45:49 | * | shodan45 goes to check steam |
| 01:45:56 | EXetoC | lame. day of defeat ftw |
| 01:46:22 | Demos | careful it is a trap for computer scientists, someone essentially saw a race condition and said "wow! this would make a great game" |
| 01:46:29 | shodan45 | EXetoC: heh, haven't played DoD in a long long time |
| 01:46:41 | EXetoC | :-p |
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| 01:49:12 | Varriount | EXetoC, I'm gonna ask Araq about the template idea tomarrow. |
| 01:49:54 | OrionPKM | demos how is your visual studio plugin coming |
| 01:50:09 | Varriount | It's just that, in most cases, the logic needed when using each function pair is quite similar. |
| 01:51:00 | Demos | OK I am binding the token parsing stuff to C#, having an annoying segfault, openLexer seems to be corrupting /something/ |
| 01:51:37 | Demos | today is the first time I have worked on it is quite a while, exams being what they are |
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| 02:04:58 | Varriount | Ok.. how do I test both unicode and ansi versions of window's nimrod procedures... |
| 02:09:12 | EXetoC | "pen_x += face.getFaceGlyphSlot.getGlyphSlotAdvance.x.FT_Int" should I make it look less like java? |
| 02:10:02 | Varriount | Great, now my eyes are bleeding. Thank you very much EXetoC |
| 02:10:43 | EXetoC | sorry, will deal with this |
| 02:12:09 | Varriount | even without intermediate variables, that could be renamed into comething like "face.glyphSlot.advance.FT_Int" |
| 02:14:55 | EXetoC | that's just my C interface. I'll have to wrap it once more in nimrod |
| 02:22:18 | OrionPKM | is there some way to tell the compiler to stop, other than {.error/fatal.} |
| 02:22:36 | Varriount | OrionPKM, static: assert false |
| 02:23:32 | OrionPKM | varriount what about silently |
| 02:23:45 | OrionPKM | assert false spits out even more stuff than {.error.} |
| 02:24:15 | EXetoC | silently? it better be detectable optionally then :p |
| 02:24:19 | OrionPKM | I essentially just want to use nimrods runtime without compiling any C/nimcache stuff |
| 02:24:34 | Varriount | Erm, OrionPKM, you mean, like a VM? |
| 02:24:51 | Varriount | Like, what Araq's been working on for months now? |
| 02:24:52 | OrionPKM | I'm writing a compile time string parser/converter and I just want a test bed |
| 02:25:05 | OrionPKM | varriount there is already a vm |
| 02:25:56 | OrionPKM | you can execute nimrod code at compile time, which is all I need to do, then I want to stop compilation |
| 02:26:08 | OrionPKM | it's not important I guess, I can just error out |
| 02:35:58 | Demos | is the new VM going to give us a less segfaulty rpel |
| 02:36:55 | Varriount | Yes. |
| 02:37:02 | psquid | A Read-Print-Eval-Loop sounds like a fun idea. |
| 02:37:06 | Varriount | Demos, it's buildable right now. |
| 02:37:21 | Demos | psquid, we have one |
| 02:37:23 | Demos | nimrod i |
| 02:37:33 | Varriount | psquid, don't do it |
| 02:37:38 | Demos | Varriount, do I get it if I am just building from master? |
| 02:37:44 | Varriount | It'll make your computer explode |
| 02:37:48 | psquid | And yeah, pretty sure I read somewhere (forums?) that that was half the point of the new one. |
| 02:37:54 | Varriount | Demos, it's the vm branch |
| 02:38:08 | Demos | is the other half doing compile time FFI? |
| 02:38:19 | psquid | Demos: No, we have a Read-Eval-Print-Loop. :P That's the *boring* way around, though. |
| 02:38:24 | psquid | I think so, yeah. |
| 02:38:26 | Varriount | Demos, macros and templates |
| 02:38:42 | Varriount | the new vm is used to run them. |
| 02:39:17 | Demos | I thought the compile jut dealt with macros and template, and the VM was for compile time functions and external code |
| 02:39:39 | Varriount | Macros and templates *are* compile time functions |
| 02:39:46 | psquid | Maybe a RPEL would decide what you wanted it to do first, then say "oops my bad" if it then finished eval'ing and found it had been wrong. |
| 02:39:55 | Demos | is the motivation for using the VM to run external C code just better errors and stuff or is there a security reason or something. |
| 02:40:24 | Demos | oh derp |
| 02:40:37 | * | Varriount slaps Demos around a bit with a giant trout. |
| 02:40:42 | Demos | RPEL sounds so much nicer than REPL, I pronounce it as rpel |
| 02:40:50 | Demos | whaaaa |
| 02:41:15 | Varriount | And no, I am not running mIRC |
| 02:41:18 | Demos | letting the compile call arbitrary code "on the real metal"... what could go wrong! |
| 02:41:49 | Varriount | Demos, build systems in C and C++ do the same thing. |
| 02:42:34 | Demos | what? have a VM or run code on the real chip |
| 02:42:57 | Varriount | What's the difference? |
| 02:43:16 | Varriount | I mean, in this case, both can amount to the same thing. |
| 02:43:26 | * | psquid slaps a giant trout around a bit with Varriount |
| 02:43:39 | * | Varriount vaporizes the trout. |
| 02:43:56 | Demos | I know, but I thought various compile time code eval was a motivation for the new VM |
| 02:44:09 | Varriount | Yes. It is. |
| 02:48:01 | Varriount | Yay! It's ALIIIIIIVE |
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| 02:49:59 | OrionPKM | you can do all kinds of compile time stuff right now w/o the new vm |
| 02:50:12 | OrionPKM | there's just a lot of very important things you cant do |
| 02:51:16 | psquid | staticExec alone is pretty much already a license to do dangerous shit at compile time if you feel like it. But that power is also necessary to be able to do useful stuff in the same vein. |
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| 02:52:14 | Varriount | Isn't staticExec marked to be depracated? |
| 02:54:15 | * | psquid shrugs |
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| 03:11:27 | Varriount | Blargh.. Writing unit tests is boring. |
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| 03:56:53 | OrionPKM | solution: dont write tests ;P |
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| 10:34:01 | EXetoC | Varriount: why do you think staticExec might be deprecated? |
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| 11:22:07 | BitPuffin | ahoy guys |
| 11:22:22 | BitPuffin | Varriount, dom96: I'll probably be on the VNUG later :) |
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| 11:25:42 | BitPuffin | just installed teamspeak hehe |
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| 11:30:07 | Araq_ | just for the record, staticExec will stay |
| 11:33:32 | Araq_ | vm2 can compile keineschweine! Which is the ultimate stress test for macros :-) |
| 11:35:27 | EXetoC | \o/ |
| 11:36:02 | BitPuffin | what is keineschweine lol |
| 11:36:12 | Araq_ | fowl's macros stress test |
| 11:36:32 | Araq_ | it's also a game I never played |
| 11:37:47 | fowl | a game i never finished |
| 11:38:32 | Kooda | What’s vm2? |
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| 11:39:07 | EXetoC | virtual machine #2? |
| 11:39:27 | Kooda | What would that be for nimrod? :o |
| 11:39:27 | EXetoC | 2.0, whatever. new, awesome VM |
| 11:39:52 | fowl | Kooda, a better compile-time evaluator |
| 11:40:02 | Kooda | Ok |
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| 11:44:22 | Araq_ | vm2 is the 2nd virtual machine I wrote ... well not really ;-) |
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| 11:45:52 | fowl | Araq_, will it mean we can use nimrod as a scripting lang |
| 11:46:12 | Araq_ | I think so, yes |
| 11:46:22 | Araq_ | the FFI support is still not finished though |
| 11:46:52 | BitPuffin | that will be cool |
| 11:47:07 | BitPuffin | and then for the release version you compile it for ultimate efficiency :P |
| 11:47:22 | Kooda | :3 |
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| 12:05:47 | BitPuffin | dom96: that was weird |
| 12:05:47 | BitPuffin | I just installed babel |
| 12:06:02 | BitPuffin | and when I installed scrypt.nim it said that it already existed |
| 12:06:12 | BitPuffin | which was weird because I didn't have scrypt.nim installed already |
| 12:06:12 | BitPuffin | since I didn't even have babel |
| 12:06:47 | BitPuffin | gonna restart my terminal lol |
| 12:06:47 | BitPuffin | brb |
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| 12:20:02 | BitPuffin | I think I am gonna write some of my javascript in nimord |
| 12:20:12 | BitPuffin | non of the GUI stuff though |
| 12:20:12 | BitPuffin | but my spam protection |
| 12:32:47 | BitPuffin | inspired by ze BTCs |
| 13:22:48 | fowl | hi BitPuffin |
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| 14:21:48 | BitPuffin | yoyo fowl |
| 14:22:03 | BitPuffin | If anyone mentions btc they can expect fowl's attention |
| 14:22:13 | fowl | dont care about btc |
| 14:22:23 | fowl | its all about the doge |
| 14:22:23 | BitPuffin | aw yeah |
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| 16:16:12 | dom96 | BitPuffin: Hopefully it's not some weird Mac OS X bug |
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| 17:04:01 | dom96 | hah, they just mentioned BitCoin in Almost Human |
| 17:04:58 | fowl | whats almost human |
| 17:05:07 | dom96 | a tv show |
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| 17:12:08 | OrionPKM | I heard bitcoin lost 50% of its worth overnight |
| 17:12:19 | dom96 | yea |
| 17:15:22 | dom96 | seems to be rising up again pretty fast though |
| 17:15:41 | Trixar_za | It does that |
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| 17:16:11 | Trixar_za | But I think it's intentional. The Chinese really wants to grow it's exchange rate |
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| 18:11:52 | shodan45 | wonder what happened to freenode :/ |
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| 18:14:15 | shodan45 | welcome back, netsplitters |
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| 18:14:50 | Mat3 | hi all |
| 18:15:01 | dom96 | hello |
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| 18:15:17 | Mat3 | hi dom96 and gradha |
| 18:15:21 | Mat3 | what's new ? |
| 18:16:03 | gradha | Mat3: nimrod is gaining notoriety, people ara starting to ask questions http://stackoverflow.com/questions/20655443/passing-complex-parameters-to-a-nimrod-macro |
| 18:18:11 | gradha | maybe I should ask SO what is nimrod's mascot |
| 18:18:43 | gradha | it certainly needs a name |
| 18:19:12 | Mat3 | gradha: Ah, that is a nice development ! |
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| 18:27:29 | Mat3 | hi BitPuffin |
| 18:27:55 | gradha | Mat3: you should ask BitPuffin about Varriount's Nimrod User Group |
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| 18:33:52 | BitPuffin | hey Mat3 |
| 18:34:00 | BitPuffin | gradha: but I was the one who came up with it |
| 18:34:02 | BitPuffin | :( |
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| 18:35:42 | gradha | sorry, it's my new hobby, s/virtual/varriount/g in everyday conversations |
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| 19:09:09 | Araq | hi Mat3 |
| 19:17:58 | EXetoC | how do I convert a string to UTF-32 code points? |
| 19:18:43 | Varriount | Cast each char to an int32? |
| 19:19:29 | Araq | use the unicode.runes iterator |
| 19:20:59 | EXetoC | yeah that works |
| 19:23:03 | gradha | manual says "Macros should deal with nnkIdent nodes and do not need to deal with nnkSym nodes", but inside a macro I get param.kind == nnkSym. Isn't that contradicting? |
| 19:24:50 | gradha | ah, that's because I was passing a var, when I const it I get an nnkPar… only that makes less sense |
| 19:25:56 | Araq | that part of the manual is outdated |
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| 19:39:59 | Varriount | Mmm. A spoonful of apricot preserve helps the medicine go down. |
| 19:41:19 | gradha | Araq: find a name for the honey badger mascot |
| 19:41:30 | Araq | Nimrod? |
| 19:41:37 | Varriount | ^ ? |
| 19:41:45 | Araq | "pussy riot Nimrod"? |
| 19:41:46 | gradha | it would be awesome if people programmed in Duke rather than Java |
| 19:42:04 | Varriount | Duke? |
| 19:42:11 | zahary | Araq, just how much do you hate expr[T]. I'm now trying it switch to static[T], but unfortunately this is a bit ambiguous - static[int] is parsed in the same way as static[1], which is equivalent to static(array(1)) |
| 19:42:16 | gradha | Varriount: that's java's mascot name |
| 19:42:25 | gradha | let's see what go's name is |
| 19:43:15 | Araq | zahary: why is static[1] equivalent to static(array(1))? |
| 19:43:32 | Araq | I guess I misunderstand you and you mean the array constructor? |
| 19:43:40 | zahary | it's static[bracket[1]] to be precise |
| 19:43:48 | zahary | bracker being the array constructor |
| 19:43:49 | gradha | amazing, go's mascot is unnamed https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go_(programming_language)#Mascot |
| 19:44:18 | Araq | I'd special case "static [" in the parser |
| 19:44:41 | zahary | should I try to look for the space? |
| 19:44:52 | Araq | nah just for the [ |
| 19:44:52 | zahary | i.e. static[] to be different than static [] |
| 19:45:16 | zahary | so static([foo, bar]) is the forced evaluation? |
| 19:45:22 | zahary | it could work that way I guess |
| 19:45:32 | Araq | yeah, that was my plan |
| 19:45:38 | zahary | ok |
| 19:46:04 | Araq | static[ vs static [ is a different topic |
| 19:46:20 | Araq | we need that later with {.horparsing: on.} |
| 19:47:02 | Araq | so we can play with the horizontal parsing feature and do no harm |
| 19:48:21 | Araq | my bet is that we'll get quite some people complaining that foo (a, b) changed its semantics |
| 19:48:57 | gradha | {.horseparsing.} ftw |
| 19:49:13 | EXetoC | that would pass a tuple using the command syntax? |
| 19:49:18 | EXetoC | or whatever it was called |
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| 19:51:05 | Araq | yeah |
| 19:51:45 | Araq | oh and a better name for 'horizontal parsing' would be a good idea, I think |
| 19:52:07 | Varriount | gradha, what kind of horse? |
| 19:52:14 | Araq | significantSpaces:on ? |
| 19:52:16 | EXetoC | and the plan is still to have "a+b * c" evaluate to "(a + b) * c"? |
| 19:52:24 | gradha | Varriount: {.sarahjessicaparsing.} ftw |
| 19:52:27 | Araq | EXetoC: that's correct, yes |
| 19:52:31 | EXetoC | great |
| 19:55:33 | Varriount | The word 'horparsing' has.. significant chances for being misinterpreted. |
| 19:56:15 | gradha | dom96: maybe you should migrate your wikipedia sandbox to http://en.uncyclopedia.co/w/index.php?title=Nimrod&action=edit&redlink=1 and make it serious, which would be a joke in itself |
| 19:57:05 | Araq | "significantSpaces" is the best I can come up with |
| 19:58:02 | gradha | {.hparsing.} is not that difficult to come up with, but definitely boring |
| 19:59:53 | Varriount | gradha, what about {.saggySpaces.} ? |
| 20:01:18 | Araq | strongSpaces? |
| 20:01:40 | gradha | Varriount: reminds me of the old times, when a friend at work used the nick "saggytits" |
| 20:01:58 | Varriount | Araq: Ooh, that has possibilities |
| 20:02:22 | Araq | lol? how so? |
| 20:02:24 | gradha | whitespace indentation… strongSpaces… hmm… indeed |
| 20:02:40 | Varriount | Araq, it just sounds.. cool |
| 20:03:09 | Araq | alright then |
| 20:03:49 | Araq | a good name helps to sell this feature |
| 20:03:51 | Varriount | Araq, it has consonance. |
| 20:04:21 | Varriount | Or alliteration, depending on whether you view "strongSpaces" as one word or two |
| 20:04:27 | Varriount | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literary_consonance |
| 20:11:14 | Araq | what does gcc define for x86_64 ? |
| 20:12:00 | Araq | __X86_64__? __x86_64__ ? __amd64__ ? __x8664 ? |
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| 20:12:36 | Mat3 | hi Araq and all |
| 20:12:49 | gradha | wb Mat3 |
| 20:12:50 | Mat3 | get some sleep, ciao |
| 20:12:56 | gradha | good bye Mat3 |
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| 20:13:20 | Araq | now that was quick ... |
| 20:13:32 | Araq | it's __x86_64 obviously |
| 20:13:41 | Araq | ascii art games |
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| 20:29:13 | Varriount | Araq, should I bother writing unit tests for os.nim? |
| 20:30:20 | Araq | we have tests/run/io.nim for these iirc |
| 20:30:30 | Varriount | Oh, didn't see those. |
| 20:33:48 | Varriount | Araq, just pushed new changes to the branch fixing os.removeFile on windows. |
| 20:34:27 | Araq | do you have a version for -d:useWinAnsi too? |
| 20:35:02 | Varriount | Yes. look at the new code above removeFile |
| 20:35:35 | Araq | have you compiled it with --os:linux and ensured it still compiles under linux? |
| 20:35:35 | Varriount | I used a when useWinUnicode: ... else: ... to create a conditional template |
| 20:35:47 | Varriount | I don't have a linux box. |
| 20:35:57 | Varriount | Oh, wait, that can be done? |
| 20:36:00 | Araq | that doesn't matter |
| 20:36:28 | Araq | it's still useful to test it compiles on linux |
| 20:36:53 | Varriount | Will using boot koch --os:linux work? |
| 20:38:21 | Varriount | Doh, now I feel silly. |
| 20:38:49 | Varriount | Araq, c:\64\nimrod\nimcache\nimrod_system.c:10:22: fatal error: sys/mman.h: No such file or directory |
| 20:38:49 | Varriount | #include <sys/mman.h> |
| 20:39:09 | Araq | sorry, use --compileOnly --os:linux |
| 20:39:10 | Varriount | I guessing that's expected? |
| 20:39:35 | Araq | so yeah, it's expected |
| 20:39:40 | Varriount | Ok, it works. |
| 20:39:48 | Araq | try the same with --os:macosx to be really sure |
| 20:40:07 | Varriount | lib\system\dyncalls.nim(139, 9) Error: no implementation for dyncalls |
| 20:40:22 | Araq | that's bad |
| 20:40:40 | Araq | why does it use dyncalls for mac? |
| 20:40:52 | Varriount | I didn't change anything mac related. |
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| 20:42:26 | Araq | I don't get it |
| 20:42:46 | Araq | dyncalls for mac should use the posix path |
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| 20:51:01 | Varriount | Araq, I don't know if this is relevant, but I'm running nimrod from a command prompt, not the mingw terminal |
| 20:52:07 | Araq | I never use the mingw terminal |
| 20:56:57 | Araq | zielmicha: congrats for using tags on the errorMessageWriter callback |
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| 20:59:43 | Araq | Varriount: you didn't get rid of cremove(file) |
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| 21:03:45 | Varriount | Araq, I know. Somehow my code got screwy |
| 21:05:04 | Varriount | Araq, request updated. |
| 21:05:34 | Varriount | Should I also update the tags? Add FReadDir or something? |
| 21:07:42 | Araq | well it doesn't read the directory, does it? |
| 21:08:33 | Varriount | No, though it reads the file attributes |
| 21:08:55 | Varriount | Or, calls an os api procedure which does. |
| 21:09:26 | Varriount | Actually, it doesn't even do that, just write the procedure. Nevermind |
| 21:09:36 | Varriount | *writes the attributes |
| 21:09:57 | Araq | well the tags should stay as they are |
| 21:10:07 | Araq | though I'm not sure what they are :P |
| 21:13:30 | Varriount | Araq, what do you think of the conditional templates? |
| 21:14:03 | Araq | fine with me, I'd have used the same I think |
| 21:14:15 | Varriount | The bits above removeFile, which define 'removeFile |
| 21:14:35 | Varriount | *define 'removeFile' as removeFileW or removeFileA |
| 21:16:11 | Araq | well yes, I like it |
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| 21:24:22 | NimBot | Araq/Nimrod master b69c666 Clay Sweetser [+0 ±1 -0]: Modified os.removeFile to act correctly when deleting a file that doesn't exist. |
| 21:24:22 | NimBot | Araq/Nimrod master c290d6e Clay Sweetser [+0 ±1 -0]: os.nim - Modify removeFile to use native Windows API calls |
| 21:24:22 | NimBot | Araq/Nimrod master 4642cc3 Clay Sweetser [+0 ±2 -0]: Further fixes (stupid kdiff automerge) |
| 21:24:22 | NimBot | Araq/Nimrod master 2faf29a Andreas Rumpf [+0 ±2 -0]: Merge pull request #762 from Varriount/os/fix-removeFile2... 2 more lines |
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| 21:36:08 | Araq | Varriount: well it still builds on macosx, so it's fine |
| 21:37:54 | Araq | now here is my new favourite piece of code: |
| 21:37:58 | Araq | static int |
| 21:38:00 | Araq | open_temp_exec_file_opts_next (void) |
| 21:38:01 | Araq | { |
| 21:38:03 | Araq | if (open_temp_exec_file_opts[open_temp_exec_file_opts_idx].repeat) |
| 21:38:04 | Araq | open_temp_exec_file_opts[open_temp_exec_file_opts_idx].func (NULL); |
| 21:39:24 | Araq | note how the reader has to carefully read everything to note it uses the same index twice |
| 21:39:25 | * | ics quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
| 21:39:46 | Araq | and how the verbosity doesn't help at all to understand it |
| 21:47:09 | EXetoC | -.- |
| 21:58:51 | Araq | #include <sys/mman.h> |
| 21:58:53 | Araq | #define LACKS_SYS_MMAN_H 1 |
| 21:59:17 | Araq | yes, that's right. we inlcude it and still pretend it's lacking |
| 21:59:58 | Araq | libffi's source code is awful |
| 22:00:11 | Demos | what is the seperater for --path? |
| 22:01:23 | gradha | Demos: if you mean compiler and related tools, try a colon --path:something/out/there |
| 22:01:24 | Demos | never mind |
| 22:01:41 | Demos | I just specified the path twice, did not solve my problems though |
| 22:01:41 | Araq | there is none, use --path multiple times instead |
| 22:01:58 | Demos | trying to link to nimrtl.dll, getting undefined symbols, but dependency walker sees them |
| 22:04:23 | Araq | well let us know once you have a fix ... |
| 22:04:51 | Demos | yeah, likely just a path error. Hence the question |
| 22:05:16 | Araq | well there is a bug report that building nimrtl.dll is broken |
| 22:05:23 | Araq | how did you manage to build it? |
| 22:05:29 | Demos | it built fine |
| 22:05:35 | Demos | nimrod c lib\nimrtl.nim |
| 22:05:45 | Demos | nimrod c --passl:-static-libgcc lib\nimrtl.nim |
| 22:06:44 | Demos | my dll is building without nimrtl but calling functions that deal in gc'd pointers seems to cause pain |
| 22:06:49 | Demos | and by pain I mean coredumps |
| 22:08:42 | Araq | well there is a test somewhere |
| 22:08:53 | Araq | that tests the gc works across dll boundaries |
| 22:09:33 | Araq | tests/dll contains a "client server" test |
| 22:09:34 | Demos | OK I got it to build, was indeed a path issue |
| 22:10:04 | Demos | erm OK I can try that, but I am like making a GC'd object, pinning it, then returning a pointer to C# |
| 22:10:29 | Demos | honestly I could just use alloc but some of the functions I call expect a ref blarg |
| 22:10:38 | Demos | can I just give them a ptr blarg? |
| 22:11:08 | Araq | no |
| 22:11:53 | Araq | but you can't give a C# object to a 'ref' either |
| 22:14:39 | Demos | I am returning a ref and taking it as an IntPtr in c# |
| 22:16:25 | Demos | anyway I have to go, I will be back in a bit. But it seems that GC test works |
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| 22:55:04 | gradha | looks like slurp commands are done using the current working directory |
| 22:55:16 | gradha | how can I make slurp use a relative path to the module using the slurp? |
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| 23:11:34 | gradha | good night, honey badgers |
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