<< 19-02-2023 >>
00:01:20PMunchAnd you can pass it a module name, or the folder where a nimble file lives. So you could just get the information for package ".." and you'd get your own nimble file :)
00:10:42FromDiscord<sOkam!> is there any good tar file library for nim?
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00:14:10FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> zippy supports tar
00:15:42FromDiscord<Hourglass [She/Her]> Hey Beef, what's your decision processing for making distinct types?
00:16:37FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> "Do I want a type that is the same as another but with different semantics"
00:17:00FromDiscord<sOkam!> oh it does? thats epic
00:26:33FromDiscord<Hourglass [She/Her]> In reply to @Elegantbeef ""Do I want a": Makes sense
00:26:59FromDiscord<Hourglass [She/Her]> I can do `type VarInt = int32`, right?
00:27:10FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> That's an alias
00:27:53FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> I generally only use aliases for shortening generic
00:27:56FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> generics\
00:37:00PMunchThey're also handy for conditional types
00:37:06PMunchAnd macro-magic
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00:52:05FromDiscord<Hourglass [She/Her]> In reply to @Elegantbeef "That's an alias": Yep
00:53:29FromDiscord<Hourglass [She/Her]> Idk if i should make VarInt a distinct or an alias, since Minecraft has VarInts, but they're just `int32`s that may not have all the bytes defined
00:55:26FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> It only matters what semantics you want
00:55:46FromDiscord<Hourglass [She/Her]> In that case, better to have it as an alias or not to define it at all
00:55:51FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Do you want static safeties when converting from a int32 to an alias
00:56:09FromDiscord<Hourglass [She/Her]> Static safeties?
00:56:13FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Yes
00:56:30FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> `myInt32 = someProcThatReturnsVarInt()`
00:56:34FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> This is a static error
00:56:42FromDiscord<Yepoleb> Pmunch\: why do you call the nimble binary instead of running the nimble file directly?
00:56:42FromDiscord<Hourglass [She/Her]> Hm, then no
00:57:35FromDiscord<Hourglass [She/Her]> I'd say it's useless to have different semantics in this case
00:57:57FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Well then there you go
00:58:13FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> If you do not want the types to be different you do not use distinct
01:00:54FromDiscord<Hourglass [She/Her]> I'm gonna hate myself tomorrow/later today
01:15:04FromDiscord<Gumbercules> In reply to @tfp "rn im adding a": this is the way - unless you want to use Nim's C++ backend
01:15:53FromDiscord<Gumbercules> I think you could write the C API in Nim theoretically, I've never tried before though
01:18:11FromDiscord<Gumbercules> tmk, the only support SWIG has for C is - https://github.com/swig/swig/wiki/GSoC-2008-C-Backend
01:19:21FromDiscord<Gumbercules> I guess there is also - https://github.com/swig/swig/tree/gsoc2012-c - doesn't look like any of these are complete though
01:19:39FromDiscord<Gumbercules> if you manage to get it to work, you should definite share your results!
01:56:02FromDiscord<Gumbercules> In reply to @tfp "are there any examples": I've written some bindings to C++ libraries with Nim and written C APIs to wrap them, if you want me to share some example code, let me know...
01:57:39FromDiscord<Gumbercules> In reply to @tfp "is there a faster": IMHO I think nanovg with a layout engine would serve you better.
01:58:33FromDiscord<Gumbercules> https://github.com/jdryg/vg-renderer
01:58:58FromDiscord<Gumbercules> I was thinking about porting this to Nim and making it work with Sokol
02:21:57NimEventerNew Nimble package! kroutes - Karax router supporting both client-side and server-side rendering, see https://github.com/ryukoposting/kroutes
02:29:10FromDiscord<sOkam!> In reply to @Gumbercules "https://github.com/jdryg/vg-renderer": why that, and not just pixie/boxy?
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02:46:05FromDiscord<spook> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=4ovq
02:46:44FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> How do you declare `generate`?
02:46:58FromDiscord<Require Support> anyone have experience in implementing a decryption function in python 3 for this encryption function in nim? https://github.com/cheatfate/nimcrypto/blob/master/examples/ctr.nim
02:48:17FromDiscord<spook> In reply to @Elegantbeef "How do you declare": not sure what you mean
02:48:31FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> You declare a generate procedure it seems
02:48:59FromDiscord<spook> should i declare another way?
02:49:18FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Well how do you write it
02:49:25FromDiscord<spook> wdym
02:49:42FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> You have a `generate` proc
02:49:46FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> how do you declare it
02:49:50FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> What is the code causing the isssue
02:49:51FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> issue\
02:50:17FromDiscord<spook> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=4ovr
02:50:30FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Is that your code?
02:50:35FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> If so yes that's very wrong
02:50:49FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> https://nim-lang.org/docs/tut1.html i suggest following this
02:51:03FromDiscord<spook> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=4ovs
02:56:58FromDiscord<spook> In reply to @Elegantbeef "If so yes that's": can you please explain how it's wrong
02:57:09FromDiscord<spook> I'm just utilizing the example from the package
02:57:16FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> You're putting code inside of the parameter list
02:58:15FromDiscord<spook> I genuinely do not know what that means
02:58:27FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> `proc name(parameterList): returnType = body`
02:58:39FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> You're putting code inside the parameterList
02:58:43FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Read the tutorial i linked
02:59:40FromDiscord<Require Support> I think you need to try to code something simpler first to get the hang of nim
02:59:51FromDiscord<sOkam!> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=4ovu
03:00:11FromDiscord<spook> In reply to @Require Support "I think you need": the point is not to learn nim
03:00:26FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> You're writing nim but do not want to know nim
03:00:28FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> ...
03:00:32FromDiscord<spook> its just that a nim package exists for EXACTLY my use case
03:00:53FromDiscord<Require Support> 🤔
03:00:57FromDiscord<sOkam!> In reply to @spook "its just that a": well if you want to use that package, you gonna need to learn the basics of the lang at least
03:00:59FromDiscord<Require Support> so you have to learn nim then
03:01:08FromDiscord<sOkam!> read tut1, it should be more than enough
03:01:24FromDiscord<sOkam!> it will take you 1h, and will save you at least 10h of frustration
03:03:44FromDiscord<spook> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=4ovw
03:04:18FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> We're not going to write Nim for you
03:04:29FromDiscord<Gumbercules> In reply to @sOkam! "why that, and not": I don't use either of those
03:05:02FromDiscord<Gumbercules> I'm using sokol_gfx and I'm guessing these are tightly coupled with OpenGL knowing treeform
03:05:22FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Boxy is, but pixie is just a skia like library
03:06:18FromDiscord<Gumbercules> gotcha
03:06:27FromDiscord<Gumbercules> https://github.com/edubart/sokol_gp exists, so maybe I will start there
03:08:53FromDiscord<spook> In reply to @Elegantbeef "We're not going to": if it could be explained to me in human terms that would be helpful
03:10:29FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> The tutorial explains in human terms
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03:25:42FromDiscord<ringabout> So this was on the front page of hacker news => https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34847941
03:30:59FromDiscord<ringabout> So many talks regarding Nim on the front page of the hacker news recently.
03:32:07FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> And they all say the same thing of "Tooling, ecosystem, god damn style insensitivity" 😛
03:32:51FromDiscord<amadan> Think for once no one has mentioned insensitivity lol
03:33:15FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Yea i was mildly surprised
03:38:11FromDiscord<Diogenes of Toronto> hey i want to create a generic function that takes a list of types that can be converted to strings and runs the $ operator and then concatenates them together. basically an arbitrary join function but i can't find the documeentation on the nim website for this
03:38:23FromDiscord<Diogenes of Toronto> (generics)
03:38:42FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> https://nim-lang.org/docs/manual.html#types-varargs
03:39:12FromDiscord<ringabout> concepts?
03:39:24FromDiscord<spook> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=4ovA
03:39:27FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Nah i think they just want a join like echo
03:39:42FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Nim does not use `:` for procedure bodies
03:39:44FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> It uses `=`
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03:41:42FromDiscord<spook> changing that, where exactly is it giving me this new mismatch error? <File, string>
03:42:15FromDiscord<spook> messages.txt should be a file, shouldnt it?
03:43:02FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Sure but what is `file.open`
03:43:11FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Nim doesnt have a `file` type
03:43:53FromDiscord<spook> supposed to open a text file
03:44:35FromDiscord<ringabout> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=4ovC
03:45:04FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> What ringabout said
03:57:57FromDiscord<Diogenes of Toronto> In reply to @Elegantbeef "https://nim-lang.org/docs/manual.html#types-varargs": thanks
03:58:06FromDiscord<Diogenes of Toronto> it works
03:58:44FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> As an aside are you driving down the housing prices in toronto? 😄
04:14:32FromDiscord<Diogenes of Toronto> lol
04:15:07FromDiscord<Diogenes of Toronto> i got expelled from the city of r defacing the currencyu
04:41:45FromDiscord<Diogenes of Toronto> sent a code paste, see https://paste.rs/YoB
04:42:29FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> You do not use any strutils procedure
04:45:43FromDiscord<Diogenes of Toronto> $ and & are not strutils procs?
04:46:01FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Nope
04:46:12FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Those are apart of system since they're primitive string ops
04:46:16FromDiscord<Diogenes of Toronto> this is confusing then https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/371759389889003532/1076726389585227878/image.png
04:46:40FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> that varargs converts them to strings
04:46:48FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> So the module that uses this procedure needs `$` not this one
04:47:16FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> You do not need `$item` since `item` is already a string
04:47:46FromDiscord<ringabout> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=4ovK
04:48:16FromDiscord<amadan> In reply to @Diogenes of Toronto "this is confusing then": Wordings a bit bit weird but the important piece to note is that "this module builds upon that" i.e. doesn't actually define them.↵The first sentence talks about those procs (`$`, `&`) being defined in system (which is automatically imported)
04:48:34FromDiscord<Diogenes of Toronto> okay
04:48:52FromDiscord<amadan> (edit) "imported)" => "imported (docs are here https://nim-lang.org/docs/system.html for it))"
04:49:19FromDiscord<Diogenes of Toronto> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=4ovL
04:49:49FromDiscord<Diogenes of Toronto> but i think this should probably raise an error or exception when str conv is not possible
04:49:49FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=4ovM
04:49:58FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> It doesnt compile when it's not possible
04:50:05FromDiscord<Diogenes of Toronto> okay then no need
04:50:24FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Nim is statically typed if something is not possible you'll hear about it in a mismatch procedure
04:50:28FromDiscord<ringabout> In reply to @ElegantBeef "I think this is": Yeah, found it was used in tests.
04:50:55FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> I know araq likes(d) using `nil` for case objects
04:50:58FromDiscord<ringabout> https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/371759389889003532/1076727572139884544/image.png
04:51:03FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> It's a pointless feature imo
04:51:12FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> It's just the same as `discard` but makes `nil` more meaningful
04:51:43FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> untyped nil has like 1 use in my view, but is used a fair bit
04:52:28FromDiscord<ringabout> I see
04:53:07FromDiscord<amadan> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=4ovN
04:54:50FromDiscord<Diogenes of Toronto> i see
04:54:54FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Using `&=` instead of `add` amadan is my enemy! 😛
04:55:08FromDiscord<Diogenes of Toronto> so add also works
04:55:32FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> yes `&` is Nim's concatenation operator, `&=` is a natural extension
04:55:52FromDiscord<amadan> I like &= 😝 (Except when it breaks with some stuff and I have to resort to .add lol)
04:56:17FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Meh `&=` doesnt work with block syntax without making an abomination
04:56:34FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> It's just not nice
04:56:35FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=4ovO
04:57:02FromDiscord<amadan> oh god I never do that 🤢 ↵Yeah block syntax is when I swap to .add
04:57:33FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Yea i'd rather it all be consistent so only use add, there isnt much benefit in `&=` to me
04:58:25FromDiscord<eyes> there are no nim bindings for box2d as far as i can tell
04:58:38FromDiscord<eyes> is there a good physics engine with nim bindings?
04:58:55FromDiscord<eyes> looking to make a game from scratch with nim + raylibnim + a physics engine
04:59:00FromDiscord<amadan> There is https://github.com/avahe-kellenberger/nim-chipmunk/
04:59:05FromDiscord<eyes> oho
04:59:12FromDiscord<amadan> raylib also has its own physics engine doesn't it?
04:59:14FromDiscord<eyes> i used to use pymunk
04:59:22FromDiscord<eyes> no raylib doesnt have physics i dont think?
04:59:46FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> it does
04:59:48FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> It has physac
04:59:57FromDiscord<eyes> wahoo
05:00:45FromDiscord<eyes> wacky yeah idk how i missed that
05:00:57FromDiscord<eyes> i dont think im going to use it though since its 3D probs
05:01:15FromDiscord<eyes> im familiar with chipmunk so im gonna try that
05:01:25FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> physac is 2D iirc
05:01:31FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> > Physac is a small 2D physics engine written in pure C.
05:01:41FromDiscord<eyes> oh
05:01:43FromDiscord<eyes> so it is
05:02:00FromDiscord<eyes> i saw "to be used in any 3D rendering api" and stopped there
05:02:31FromDiscord<eyes> maybe the reason i wasnt using this before was because I was doing a 3D game at that time? but idk i dont think i ever saw this
05:02:50FromDiscord<eyes> hm okay maybe Physac
05:03:02FromDiscord<eyes> although not sure if the nim bindings im using have physac included
05:03:12FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Which bindings?
05:03:19FromDiscord<eyes> nvm it does
05:03:21FromDiscord<eyes> this is swag
05:03:24FromDiscord<eyes> physac it is
05:03:33FromDiscord<eyes> im using nimraylibnow
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05:41:11FromDiscord<sOkam!> how can i find the default options available for operating systems with `when defined(windows)` etc?
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07:05:33FromDiscord<emmikat> hi, is there any way of passing an asyncsocket to a thread?
07:05:40FromDiscord<emmikat> like, one resulting from connect?
07:08:47FromDiscord<Rika> Not safe because threads have individual async event loops iirc
07:09:04FromDiscord<Rika> Not really too sure though
07:09:17FromDiscord<emmikat> one the right way be doing crap with nativesockets?
07:09:46FromDiscord<emmikat> In reply to @Rika "Not safe because threads": this part makes sense but is there no way to just transplant into a diff event loop?
07:10:26FromDiscord<Diogenes of Toronto> In reply to @Rika "Not safe because threads": could you use a channel to send the socket connect?
07:10:37FromDiscord<emmikat> In reply to @Diogenes of Toronto "could you use a": wdym?
07:11:01FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Not only the event loop, but since async procedures are closures the the data could be in a convoluted closure environment that holds onto a `ref T`
07:11:27FromDiscord<emmikat> righttt, that makes sense
07:11:34FromDiscord<emmikat> hm but wait
07:11:42FromDiscord<emmikat> does that have much to do with the AsyncSocket object itself?
07:12:07FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> That and also the closure procedures created
07:12:42FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> You generally do not attempt to complete a future on another thread
07:12:56FromDiscord<emmikat> asyncsocket has attached closures?
07:12:58FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> If you want to thread and use async you use channels or similar to send data across threads to instigate
07:13:23FromDiscord<Diogenes of Toronto> In reply to @emmikat "wdym?": my thinking as a go program is that you would have a channel send data to your thread and lock writing to the channel with a mutex when it is being written to and unlocking etc then using the object to do what you want in the thread
07:13:38FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> No `Future`s wrap closure procedures
07:13:39FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Those closure procedures can hold onto heap allocated data
07:13:41FromDiscord<emmikat> what i'm trying to do is send the asyncsocket resutling from an accept() over to a new worker thread
07:14:10FromDiscord<emmikat> am i thinking about this the wrong way?
07:14:12FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Yea diogenes here is saying what i'd do
07:14:48FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Thread A gets data sends it to Thread B, this thread then does the networking stuffs and sends whatever it wants back to A across channel(s)
07:15:05FromDiscord<emmikat> actually that's exactly what i'm trying to implment
07:15:06FromDiscord<emmikat> but
07:15:49FromDiscord<emmikat> thread A is listen()ing, thread B is networking after an accept, and thread C is other processing stuff
07:16:35FromDiscord<emmikat> is there any easy way of doing this?
07:16:44FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Using channels
07:16:59FromDiscord<Rika> You can’t send the accepted socket I believe
07:17:02FromDiscord<emmikat> but then thread A keeps doing the networking stuff after the accept
07:17:09FromDiscord<emmikat> okay
07:17:18FromDiscord<emmikat> performance is probably fine with thread A doing all that stuff
07:17:21FromDiscord<emmikat> i'll just stick to that
07:17:30FromDiscord<Diogenes of Toronto> i have a more mundane problem i cannot for the life of me figure out why my imports are not working. the lsp keeps telling me it cannot read a file and i am confused
07:17:45FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> What does the compiler say?
07:17:52FromDiscord<Rika> Has restarting it not worked
07:18:13FromDiscord<Diogenes of Toronto> cannot open file: pages/articles
07:18:34FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Do you have a folder named `pages` and a module named `articles.nim`?
07:18:49FromDiscord<Diogenes of Toronto> yes
07:19:00FromDiscord<Rika> Is it in the same directory as the file that has the import
07:19:10FromDiscord<Diogenes of Toronto> oh god it was a spelling error
07:19:17FromDiscord<Rika> Lol
07:19:30FromDiscord<emmikat> In reply to @Rika "You can’t send the": actually couldnt you just manually use the asyncfd?
07:19:54FromDiscord<Rika> You can try it, it might work, I personally don’t know
07:20:22FromDiscord<emmikat> a bit low level but since threads are within the same process??
07:20:24FromDiscord<emmikat> (edit) "process??" => "process?"
07:20:28FromDiscord<Phil> Sidenote for imports, if you want to make sure you can tell apart import from std, package and your own modules:↵You can do `import ./pages/articles` , `import std/strutils` and `import pkg/jsony` (for example).
07:20:29FromDiscord<emmikat> they should have access to the same fds?
07:20:38FromDiscord<Phil> (edit) "modules:↵You" => "modules at a glance:↵You"
07:21:30FromDiscord<Diogenes of Toronto> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=4ows
07:22:08FromDiscord<Phil> Also perfectly valid, just wanted to give you an option if you wanted to make it more explicit for example that pages is your own thing, while karax is a downloaded package
07:25:49FromDiscord<Diogenes of Toronto> another file isn't working. Is it possible to import from a parent directory?
07:26:14FromDiscord<Diogenes of Toronto> https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/371759389889003532/1076766645122498670/image.png
07:26:33FromDiscord<Phil> You want to import what from where?
07:26:44FromDiscord<Phil> Generally getting to the parent dir is just a matter of `../`
07:26:48FromDiscord<Phil> Nim is all relative imports
07:27:04FromDiscord<Diogenes of Toronto> i want to import helpers into stats
07:27:19FromDiscord<Phil> `../helpers`
07:27:43FromDiscord<Diogenes of Toronto> its still broken
07:27:43FromDiscord<Phil> Note that `../[helpers, otherModule, nextOtherModule]` won't work, that'll need a separate `../` statement
07:28:04FromDiscord<Phil> Helpers is in the frontend folder?
07:28:12FromDiscord<Diogenes of Toronto> yes
07:28:35FromDiscord<Phil> Show your import string please
07:28:38FromDiscord<Diogenes of Toronto> import ../helpers/[strConv]
07:28:54FromDiscord<Phil> When did helpers turn into a directory?
07:29:33FromDiscord<Diogenes of Toronto> its not it has a function
07:29:37FromDiscord<Phil> Your current import is saying "Import the strConv module from the helpers directory"
07:29:45FromDiscord<Diogenes of Toronto> ah
07:29:57FromDiscord<emmikat> In reply to @Isofruit "Your current import is": wait how
07:29:59FromDiscord<emmikat> even with the / ?
07:31:13FromDiscord<Phil> If you want to import only a specific symbol from a module you can use the `from std/strutils import toHex` syntax
07:33:00FromDiscord<Phil> In reply to @emmikat "even with the /": pure `import`syntax without a `from` in there is about importing entire modules. ↵Therefore any path you provide in those cases is just a relative filepath to your current file.
07:34:15FromDiscord<emmikat> In reply to @Isofruit "pure `import`syntax without a": that part makes sense, but i dont understand how that makes it a dictionary
07:34:20FromDiscord<Phil> For more on various ways of importing here some docs: https://nim-lang.org/docs/tut1.html#modules
07:34:27FromDiscord<emmikat> assuming we have a file, ../helpers/strConv
07:34:28FromDiscord<Phil> Wait, did I write dictionary somewhere?
07:34:31FromDiscord<emmikat> that should be a valid import
07:34:35FromDiscord<emmikat> NVM
07:34:36FromDiscord<emmikat> IM BLIND
07:34:38FromDiscord<emmikat> I CANT READ
07:34:43FromDiscord<emmikat> i was like waht
07:34:48FromDiscord<emmikat> okay ignore me
07:34:52FromDiscord<emmikat> everything youre saying makes sense nowww
07:34:56FromDiscord<Phil> That gave me a good morning laugh 😄
07:35:10FromDiscord<Diogenes of Toronto> it worked btw i am just solving my other compilation errors
07:35:22FromDiscord<Phil> An important thing to remember: Never use include
07:35:22FromDiscord<Phil> Just don't
07:35:27FromDiscord<Phil> You will run into issues
07:35:29FromDiscord<Phil> Just use import
07:35:53FromDiscord<Diogenes of Toronto> include just dumps the text right
07:36:17FromDiscord<Phil> Yep. And if you e.g. define type A in that file and you just included it, now type A exists twice and both types are not compatible with one another
07:36:41FromDiscord<Diogenes of Toronto> got it
07:36:56FromDiscord<emmikat> In reply to @Isofruit "That gave me a": im glad!
07:37:02FromDiscord<emmikat> i was so confused i was like
07:37:13FromDiscord<emmikat> failing at reading and i read directory as dictionary in both of your messages and im like
07:37:30FromDiscord<emmikat> python brain and nim brain are the same so dictionary == table and so
07:37:43FromDiscord<emmikat> nim uses `[]` for table and i was like
07:37:49FromDiscord<emmikat> that's plausible ig but thers a slash
07:39:36FromDiscord<Phil> Alrighty, now on to figure out how I want to write that next section of docs
07:40:05FromDiscord<emmikat> any easy way of awaiting a channel?
07:40:39FromDiscord<Phil> I don't do multithreaded coding in that sense in nim. My httpserver bundled with the webdev frameworks I use typically takes that over for me
07:40:59FromDiscord<emmikat> it makes sense
07:41:10FromDiscord<emmikat> im kind of using the language in a nontypical way i think
07:41:24FromDiscord<Phil> And even if I did multithreading it would likely either be having a seq of stuff and parallelising a transformation or I'd just be outsourcing some kind of computation like reading a file or sth
07:41:54FromDiscord<Phil> I wonder if there is some kind of list of the standard ways people use multiple threads
07:42:15FromDiscord<Rika> Channels are not awaited, you use loops and try receive
07:42:31FromDiscord<emmikat> In reply to @Rika "Channels are not awaited,": yeah that's what i was going to do
07:42:35FromDiscord<emmikat> just feels messy
07:42:52FromDiscord<Rika> If you want to have async as well then you call poll in the loop then your futures will be tended to
07:43:04FromDiscord<emmikat> oh
07:43:05FromDiscord<emmikat> oh smart
07:43:30FromDiscord<emmikat> im trying to figure out if that's realtime enough tho
07:43:42FromDiscord<Rika> Async isn’t real-time safe
07:43:50FromDiscord<emmikat> yep
07:43:54FromDiscord<emmikat> that makes sense
07:43:56FromDiscord<Rika> As in deterministic kind of real time
07:43:57FromDiscord<emmikat> i was thinking about not using it
07:44:04FromDiscord<emmikat> right yeah
07:44:09FromDiscord<emmikat> i dont need it to be really real time
07:44:20FromDiscord<emmikat> but i dont want to wait for inconsistent timing
07:44:31FromDiscord<Rika> How inconsistent is intolerable
07:44:34FromDiscord<emmikat> i need messages to be passed relativiely on time with a consistentish delay
07:44:40FromDiscord<emmikat> In reply to @Rika "How inconsistent is intolerable": honestly, however much someone can feel
07:45:21FromDiscord<emmikat> its for a game so
07:45:22FromDiscord<emmikat> yeah
07:46:48FromDiscord<emmikat> honestly i think it should be fine
07:47:20FromDiscord<emmikat> can a Socket be shared across threads?
08:10:14FromDiscord<Diogenes of Toronto> does nim come with a linter?
08:10:19FromDiscord<Diogenes of Toronto> i miss gofmt
08:11:18FromDiscord<tfp> In reply to @Gumbercules "I think you could": can you import member functions from cpp in nim?
08:12:08FromDiscord<planetis> In reply to @Diogenes of Toronto "does nim come with": nimpretty but your success may vary
08:13:58FromDiscord<planetis> In reply to @tfp "can you import member": yes you can but read the docs please
08:21:12FromDiscord<tfp> well it doesn't really look like you can
08:21:28FromDiscord<tfp> it looks like a hack that just generates text to me
08:23:25FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> That's Nim interop for you
08:24:08FromDiscord<demotomohiro> @tfp https://nim-lang.org/docs/manual.html#implementation-specific-pragmas-importcpp-pragma
08:24:30FromDiscord<tfp> yeah i mean but that's not what i meant by import
08:24:35FromDiscord<tfp> that's not really importing
08:25:21FromDiscord<tfp> i mean maybe i can actually
08:25:30FromDiscord<tfp> cos the lib is c++ anyway.. why should i care if it uses the c++ backend
08:25:34FromDiscord<tfp> does the c++ backend suck?
08:25:44FromDiscord<tfp> why are people saying not to use it
08:27:40FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> well what do you mean import?
08:28:06FromDiscord<tfp> like at the linker level
08:28:14FromDiscord<tfp> so i can use it with the c backend
08:28:21FromDiscord<tfp> i don't rly know if that's possible tohugh
08:28:22FromDiscord<tfp> (edit) "tohugh" => "though"
08:28:29FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Methods are dispatched through a Vtable
08:28:31FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> In C++ atleast
08:28:40FromDiscord<tfp> u can still export them though
08:28:48FromDiscord<tfp> i just don't think the vtable layout is standardized
08:28:54FromDiscord<demotomohiro> I think people usually use C backend because C compilers are faster than c++ compiler to compile code.
08:29:10FromDiscord<tfp> hmm yeah and more portable too
08:29:18FromDiscord<tfp> maybe the c++ backend isn't so bad
08:29:22FromDiscord<tfp> i'll try it first and see how it goes
08:29:25FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Of course you can export them, but you cannot export the dynamic dispatch part, a c++ method can just be a proc that takes a pointer to the type
08:29:39FromDiscord<tfp> ye like the abi isn't standard
08:29:42FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> The C++ backend works, there are some edge cases and features you'd want arent implemented
08:29:48FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Nim's methods for instance do not work with C++ methods
08:30:00NimEventerNew thread by arnetheduck: JIT landed in nlvm, see https://forum.nim-lang.org/t/9907
08:30:00FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> You need to use a 'hack' with codegendecl and procs
08:30:18FromDiscord<tfp> wdym don't work with
08:30:22FromDiscord<demotomohiro> @tfp It would possible if you wrap C++ lib in C language and built it as static or dynamic lib.
08:30:30FromDiscord<tfp> yeah that's what i'm doing now
08:30:35FromDiscord<tfp> but it's so annoying to write everything 3 times over
08:30:36FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Nim methods do not emit C++ methods
08:30:44FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> So you cannot override methods in Nim without a hack
08:30:50FromDiscord<tfp> oh i see what you mean
08:31:01FromDiscord<tfp> that's fine, as long as it's less work than what i'm doing now
08:31:07FromDiscord<tfp> maybe ill try that
08:47:25FromDiscord<tfp> https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/371759389889003532/1076787077124984832/image.png
08:47:36FromDiscord<tfp> https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/371759389889003532/1076787124759695432/image.png
08:47:44FromDiscord<tfp> https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/371759389889003532/1076787155772391504/image.png
08:47:46FromDiscord<tfp> lol
08:47:54FromDiscord<tfp> this is actually based
09:13:05FromDiscord<Diogenes of Toronto> I have done it! it all compiles!! I will continue working on it later. I am really liking nim (besides running into the indentation errors like i did with python)
09:13:33FromDiscord<Diogenes of Toronto> much more enjoyable than working with vugu
09:50:11FromDiscord<fabricio> where can I find docs about the `line` pragma?
09:50:54FromDiscord<demotomohiro> Do you mean `inline` pragma?
09:51:11FromDiscord<fabricio> no, `line`
09:51:53FromDiscord<fabricio> nvm found it https://nim-lang.org/docs/manual.html#pragmas-line-pragma
09:52:13FromDiscord<demotomohiro> https://nim-lang.org/docs/manual.html#pragmas-line-pragma
09:56:59FromDiscord<fabricio> is there some way that I can get the line number where a macro or template is called from within that macro/template?
09:57:25FromDiscord<fabricio> smth like the `LINE` in C
10:01:59FromDiscord<demotomohiro> https://nim-lang.org/docs/system.html#instantiationInfo%2Cint
10:07:59om3gaIs it ok when --- if list[ident].hasKey(packets[i].identification) --- raises exception Key not Found?
10:08:51om3gaAs I understand manual, it should be true/false, right?
10:09:47FromDiscord<Rika> It’s likely not the procedure has key raising but something else
10:09:56FromDiscord<Rika> Like []
10:10:09om3gaRika, that's what I thought too
10:10:15om3gabut how :)
10:10:31FromDiscord<Rika> How what?
10:11:06om3gadebugger points on that, and here is nothing other that could be executed
10:11:21FromDiscord<Rika> Well test the [] procedures!
10:11:24FromDiscord<Rika> (edit) "procedures!" => "procedures?"
10:11:51FromDiscord<Rika> I don’t understand
10:11:51om3gahmm... ah! I got the idea
10:12:13FromDiscord<Rika> That’s good, because I don’t lmao
10:12:26om3galist is of type Table[tuple, Table[uint, object]]
10:12:54FromDiscord<Rika> Then the first [] of list has the issue
10:13:11om3gaseems I need to find key of the tuple first, then find key in another table
10:13:22FromDiscord<Rika> If you want to avoid that you can always get or default
10:13:48FromDiscord<Rika> But that’s maybe wasteful, making an empty table to then call has key on lol
10:14:03om3gano, it's ok for me
10:14:14om3gaat least if it will work
10:16:58om3gaRika, hah, thnhx for pointing me on the problem
10:17:02om3gait works
10:20:14FromDiscord<Rika> 👌
10:38:51om3ga<Rika> But that’s maybe wasteful, making an empty table to then call has key on lol <---- Table is not empty, it contains the data
10:39:31om3gabut acessing list[ident].hasKey(packets[i].identification) seems is wrong
10:42:11om3gaits like : if list[tuple[param1: arr1, param2: arr2][key].hasKey(..), where list is Table[tuple, Table[uint, object]]
10:43:29om3gawe need to be sure that first key presents in the table, before accessing it's value
10:43:46om3gathat's how I explain, why it not work before
10:47:12FromDiscord<Rika> In reply to @om3ga "<Rika> But that’s maybe": I mean using get or default will make an empty (inner) table if key doesn’t exist in table (outer)
10:47:28FromDiscord<Rika> And that would be wasteful
10:47:45om3gaaah, yeah.. now I understand what you mena
10:47:47om3ga*mean
10:47:55om3galang barrier for me haha
10:48:52om3gawell code is fixed, but I have still strange output. sometimes program just don't want to work as it should
10:49:22om3gatoday is sunday, better to take a rest :)
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11:47:03NimEventerNew thread by grd: Is it possible to only compile the linked modules but not the executable?, see https://forum.nim-lang.org/t/9909
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12:43:32FromDiscord<伊弉冉の恵み> apparently windows defender still thinks nim is a trojan, when will they stop with this bs
12:46:28FromDiscord<demotomohiro> Until someone who loves Nim get hired by microsoft, join windows defender devteam and become team leader.
12:54:56PMunchAnyone wants to spend there summer picketing outside Microsoft HQ?
13:00:05PMunchtheir*
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13:09:32anddamhowdy
13:09:39anddamPMunch: hey, mind a query?
13:10:16PMunchSELECT * FROM Knowledge;
13:11:27anddamodd answer, but I guess Bool("whatyousaid") is True
13:11:41PMunchJust messing with you, query away
13:12:27PMunch(The joke, bad as it was, is that it is an SQL query)
13:13:50anddammm /SQLquery command does not work
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13:53:30FromDiscord<Ecorous> How do people avoid recursive module dependency?
13:53:42FromDiscord<Ecorous> I'm having severe trauma from it
13:53:51FromDiscord<Ecorous> I'll upload the code in a minute
13:54:02PMunchThere are a couple of strategies
13:54:19PMunchThe simplest being to have a separate types files
13:54:30PMunchYou can also play around with generics
13:55:10FromDiscord<Ecorous> You'll see my issue in a minute
13:56:03FromDiscord<Ecorous> <https://github.com/Ecorous/packnim_gui> - here's the repo
13:57:07FromDiscord<Ecorous> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=4oxp
13:58:13FromDiscord<Ecorous> I need `window` to import `packwiz` because it contains a lot of logic, I need to `packwiz` to import utils to get the main window, I need `utils` to import `window` to create a `getMainWindow`
13:58:45FromDiscord<Ecorous> (edit) "window," => "window error function,"
13:58:59FromDiscord<Ecorous> `utils` can be removed from it, but it doesn't really change the fact that I have this issue
14:08:34PMunchSorry, I got caught up in some playground maintainance
14:09:08FromDiscord<Ecorous> Ah, np
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14:32:56FromDiscord<fabricio> In reply to @demotomohiro "https://nim-lang.org/docs/system.html#instantiation": thanks
14:52:23FromDiscord<simulatddev> anyone have a good resource/article for understanding tables in nim?↵for basic homogeneous types and dictionaries, I think I got it. But I'm having trouble creating heterogeneous tables. I'm coming from lua where you can just throw anything in a table as a value.
14:53:05PMunch@simulatddev, well you can't
14:53:09PMunchThat's the simple answer
14:53:34PMunchWhat you need to do is create a variant object type
14:53:53PMunchAlso known as a tagged union in other languages
14:54:28PMunchThis essentially makes your table homogeneous, but still allows different types to be held in every node
14:55:47FromDiscord<simulatddev> sent a long message, see http://ix.io/4oy3
14:56:03Amun-Ranope
14:56:21Amun-Ralike this: https://nim-lang.org/docs/manual.html#types-object-variants
14:56:27PMunchAh damn it
14:56:35PMunchBeat me to it by seconds :P
14:56:40Amun-Ra:P
14:56:51Amun-Rathat's pretty uncommon for me :>
14:57:39FromDiscord<simulatddev> In reply to @Amun-Ra "like this: https://nim-lang.org/docs/manual.html#ty": ah okay. I will do it this way, thanks.
14:57:48Amun-RaNim has {.union.} pragma too but it's mean to be used with C types
15:01:09FromDiscord<simulatddev> need to get used to the differences. otherwise nim is really cool and useful
15:02:00PMunchYeah Nim can seem a bit strict at first
15:03:11Amun-Ralike you can't change variant kind type after an object it's created (been there done that) ;>
15:04:31FromDiscord<simulatddev> I think I will learn to like the strictness...maybe↵but also writing x: int = 3 is nicer visually. easier to look at though I don't think it's necessary
15:04:57PMunchIt really does help prevent bugs, which is nice
15:05:18PMunchYou don't have to specify the type like that, Nim has type inference so `let x = 3` works as well
15:05:30Amun-Rayes, type strictness helps a lot
15:05:55Amun-Raand one of those things I love the most - UFC
15:06:11FromDiscord<simulatddev> right, it can infer. not sure how much more efficient that is, but I think it'll prevent a lot of dumb mistakes on my part
15:06:12PMunchYeah
15:06:28PMunchThe strictness of types, combined with the relaxed syntax really is a killer combination
15:07:06anddamAmun-Ra: oh that has a name
15:07:28anddamthat's how Lua implement classes, IIRC
15:07:38anddamimplements*
15:09:05PMunchSo..
15:09:07FromDiscord<simulatddev> I was very surprised at the syntax. definitely nice
15:09:12PMunchI might've written a logging library
15:09:27PMunchBasically completed my superlog experiment
15:09:48PMunchBut now it needs a name
15:10:20FromDiscord<enthus1ast> hyperlog
15:10:31FromDiscord<enthus1ast> \:)
15:10:43Amun-RaPMunch: that's the hardest part
15:10:55FromDiscord<simulatddev> Lognog
15:13:29PMunchI was thinking of a play on words of superlog
15:13:40PMunchAnd I thought to myself, what's the greatest log
15:13:59PMunchSo I'm considering Yggdrasil
15:14:25FromDiscord<enthus1ast> a module that one must always look up the name to import it? \:)
15:14:27FromDiscord<simulatddev> or maybe Yule
15:14:53FromDiscord<fabricio> timber?
15:15:13PMunch@enthus1ast, yeah that's the problem isn't it..
15:15:22PMunchDoesn't exactly roll of the tongue
15:15:27PMunchYule could be fun
15:15:48FromDiscord<simulatddev> I mean, the yule log is traditionally the largest one they could find
15:15:53PMunchTimber just sounds like you need to watch out
15:17:22PMunchWell this is fun.. In trying to figure out what's wrong with the playground I tried building it locally, now my hard-drive is full as well..
15:18:29FromDiscord<ringabout> There are cyclic imports in the compiler, which I didn't notice before, for instance, transf and lambdalifting rely on each other. How could I break this cyclic dep quickly?
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15:21:42Amun-Rahmm, general question, what are tags really for?
15:22:09PMunchAmun-Ra, tags in what sense?
15:22:47PMunch@ringabout, they have cyclic imports and it works?
15:22:47Amun-RaPMunch: as in tagging effects
15:22:54FromDiscord<auxym> In reply to @ringabout "There are cyclic imports": the usual strategy is moving the dependencies in a third module
15:23:06FromDiscord<auxym> or combining both into 1
15:23:41FromDiscord<ringabout> In reply to @PMunch "<@658563905425244160>, they have cyclic": cyclic imports (but not cyclic deps) + forward decls.
15:24:11Amun-RaPMunch: I always add {.push raises: [].} at the beginning of every file, I'm considering changing it to {.push raises:[], tags: [].}
15:24:17PMunchI'm not sure I follow @ringabout
15:24:29PMunchAmun-Ra, well tags are just used to track things
15:24:29FromDiscord<ringabout> In reply to @auxym "the usual strategy is": Yeah, firstly I need `from lambdalifting import nil` and `from transf import nil` to find all the usages.
15:27:58FromDiscord<ringabout> It seems when using cyclic imports, I cannot implicitly import procs. https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/371759389889003532/1076887878942085120/image.png
15:30:02PMunchHuh, so apparently Docker had accumulated almost 40Gb of various stopped containers and unused images on my machine
15:30:04PMunchFun times
15:31:00Amun-Rayou already said it by "docker"… ;)
15:33:43PMunchYeah.. It really isn't made to save space :P
15:38:34FromDiscord<4zv4l> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=4oyD
15:40:22Amun-Ra4zv4l: ## → #
15:40:46Amun-Ra## is not an ordinary comment, it leaves its trace in ast
15:42:08FromDiscord<4zv4l> that's for the doc right ?
15:42:14FromDiscord<4zv4l> cannot document import ?
15:45:00FromDiscord<Rika> Nope I don’t think so
15:46:07Amun-Rayou can document whole import, not the part of it
15:46:56Amun-Radocument as in "it works"; I haven't tested what it looks like
15:48:53FromDiscord<4zv4l> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=4oyJ
15:49:06FromDiscord<4zv4l> that's for a dll with global variable
15:50:48Amun-Rabefore
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15:51:52FromDiscord<4zv4l> thanks !
15:56:11PMunchHmm, still not sure about the name..
15:56:14FromDiscord<4zv4l> how can I comment that I declare the proc prototype before so that I can use it before writing the body ?
15:56:30PMunchHuh?
15:56:43FromDiscord<4zv4l> I have a config variable↵that I have to load and use
15:57:03FromDiscord<4zv4l> if I put it down of the file after the `loadConfig`↵I get errors because function that use it on top
15:57:17FromDiscord<4zv4l> if I put it on top↵I get errors because `loadConfig` isn't declared yet
15:57:29PMunchAre you asking how to forward declare something?
15:57:31Amun-Ra4zv4l: func foo()
15:57:40FromDiscord<4zv4l> I am asking how I can comment that
15:57:46FromDiscord<4zv4l> so that the dude who read my code to maintain it
15:57:47Amun-Ra4zv4l: I mean, everything before =
15:57:49FromDiscord<4zv4l> understand why I did this
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15:58:28FromDiscord<4zv4l> yeah yah I did that↵just for now the comment is like↵> # proc declaration to use before writing the body
15:58:57PMunchWell typically you wouldn't comment it. Should be obvious to any Nim user why you forward declare stuff..
15:59:09Amun-Ra4zv4l: something like this? https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=4oyQ
15:59:21Amun-Raah, I see
15:59:23FromDiscord<4zv4l> In reply to @Amun-Ra "<@329196212282458112>: something like this?": yeah
15:59:38FromDiscord<4zv4l> and since that's the only function I declare without writing the body on top of the file
15:59:45FromDiscord<4zv4l> maybe that will be weird idk
16:00:02Amun-Raforward declaration is staightforward by itself, I see no reason to make it verbose; it's like commenting i += 2 # add two to i
16:00:58Amun-RaI mean there's only one reason to declare function forward… ;>
16:01:05FromDiscord<4zv4l> can sound stupid but why Nim doesn't arrange it so it's ok to use a function even if it is not declared yet but is later in the file ?
16:01:31Amun-Rathere's pragma for that, but I wouldn't recommend it
16:01:31PMunchBecause Nim just does a single pass of your file
16:01:40PMunchIt's faster that way (to compile)
16:01:59FromDiscord<4zv4l> In reply to @Amun-Ra "there's pragma for that,": just to know, what is the pragma ?
16:02:07PMunchBut yeah, you can turn on code reordering: https://nim-lang.github.io/Nim/manual_experimental.html#code-reordering
16:02:45FromDiscord<4zv4l> oh yeah alright, I'll let my proc declaration there xD
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16:50:37FromDiscord<Patitotective> KDL parsing library with compile-time parsing, streams, decoder, encoder, simple preferences sytem https://github.com/Patitotective/kdl-nim/releases/tag/1.0.0 :]
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18:22:04FromDiscord<Hourglass [She/Her]> <https://github.com/PrismarineJS/minecraft-data/blob/master/data/pc/1.19.3/protocol.json> I don't get how to turn this incomprehensible blob of data into something that can actually be used for auto-generating types
18:27:33Zevvwho is ZoomRmc?
18:28:02Zevvare they on matrix or irc or discord or whereever?
18:42:18FromDiscord<Hourglass [She/Her]> How would I get the folder my package is in?
18:42:32FromDiscord<Hourglass [She/Her]> Not the app directory, the source file directory is what I need
18:44:51FromDiscord<Hourglass [She/Her]> Found it! https://nim-lang.org/docs/system.html#currentSourcePath.t
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19:06:17FromDiscord<Hourglass [She/Her]> Anyone know what a `topBitSetTerminatedArray` is?
19:06:29FromDiscord<Hourglass [She/Her]> Not a Nim thing, but I need to represent it in Nim
19:11:29NimEventerNew thread by teras: SIGSEGV when creating a dunamic library in Nim and use it in nim (and posiibbly in other places too), see https://forum.nim-lang.org/t/9910
19:21:34NimEventerNew post on r/nim by Mmiguel6288: nimpy: executing a python library inside of nim = same python performance?, see https://reddit.com/r/nim/comments/116lfah/nimpy_executing_a_python_library_inside_of_nim/
19:46:47FromDiscord<Lanky Lemur> I'm messing around with macros right now. Does anyone know why it might be inserting semicolons in the parameters list of a new procedure I'm defining?
19:47:49termerI'm not experienced with macros, but I don't think anyone's going to be able to help with your problem easily without seeing at least some of your macro code
19:49:01FromDiscord<Hourglass [She/Her]> In reply to @Lanky Lemur "I'm messing around with": if you do `.repr` on the proc, does it do `arg: type; anotherArg: type` for the arguments?
19:49:19FromDiscord<Hourglass [She/Her]> `;` and `,` are both valid for separating params
19:50:25FromDiscord<Lanky Lemur> In reply to @Hourglass, When the Hour Strikes "if you do `.repr`": That's exactly the issue. So it's not a problem, then?
19:51:13FromDiscord<Hourglass [She/Her]> Nope!
19:51:32FromDiscord<Hourglass [She/Her]> well, I don't think it should be a problem seeing as both are valid syntax
19:51:56FromDiscord<Hourglass [She/Her]> Do `enum`s in Nim start from `0` automatically if you don't define the values?
19:54:55FromDiscord<Lanky Lemur> It appears so
19:55:55FromDiscord<Lanky Lemur> In reply to @Hourglass, When the Hour Strikes "Do `enum`s in Nim": > Do enums in Nim start from 0 automatically if you don't define the values?↵↵It appears so
19:56:20FromDiscord<Hourglass [She/Her]> Good to know!
19:59:30FromDiscord<BobBBob> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=4oAe
20:00:52FromDiscord<Hourglass [She/Her]> I think you can do `ThreebitRange 0, 1, 2, ...` in the declaration
20:01:09FromDiscord<Hourglass [She/Her]> I think
20:01:52FromDiscord<BobBBob> oh yep that works thanks
20:02:01FromDiscord<Hourglass [She/Her]> Ofc
20:03:40FromDiscord<emmikat> can nim sockets be sent over channels?
20:08:34FromDiscord<Hourglass [She/Her]> In reply to @emmikat "can nim sockets be": Try it and see? :P
20:08:55FromDiscord<emmikat> oh true
20:09:01FromDiscord<emmikat> im assuming if i just
20:09:09FromDiscord<emmikat> socket[] i can get send that over and it should be fine?
20:10:41PMunchZevv, why do you ask?
20:12:11PMunch@Lanky_Lemur, it's technically even the recommended way to split a list of arguments
20:18:55FromDiscord<Hourglass [She/Her]> In reply to @emmikat "socket[] i can get": Probably if the reference is kept alive
20:27:01ZevvPMunch: i'm looking to discuss recent commits on nim-lang/threading; this is the recommended implementation for channels, but i believe it might not be right and safe
20:27:39PMunchAha
20:28:01FromDiscord<Hourglass [She/Her]> Question: Doesn't arc make using variables and stuff between threads safe? I think it was @Phil who talked about it?
20:28:19FromDiscord<Hourglass [She/Her]> Just by default it's not threadsafe, but it could be, something along those lines
20:28:22Zevvyeah that's a great joke
20:28:40FromDiscord<Hourglass [She/Her]> I have no idea so ¯\\_(ツ)\_/¯
20:28:52Zevvin theory, it could be/should be
20:29:01PMunchNot sure if it's the same person, but there is a Zoom on Element Zevv
20:29:03FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> It only allows sharing across threads
20:29:22Zevvit allows sharing across threads, but Nims arc reference counters are kind of in the way
20:29:27FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> It doesnt make it safe, that still requires sync objects
20:29:31Zevvit's not easy to perform a clean and safe move
20:29:47Zevvand what he says, of course ^^
20:29:47FromDiscord<Phil> In reply to @Hourglass, When the Hour Strikes "Question: Doesn't arc make": Can't have been me, I don't do multi-threaded stuff, or at least haven't done so far.↵I've talked about how ORC collects cycles, but even that is not based on expertise, literally just based on blogposts and other statements made in here
20:29:52FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Even with mutex or similar on the ref count you cannot share graphs afaik
20:30:07FromDiscord<Hourglass [She/Her]> In reply to @Isofruit "Can't have been me,": Ah
20:30:30FromDiscord<Hourglass [She/Her]> In reply to @Elegantbeef "It doesnt make it": Ah
20:30:58Zevvanyhow, after spending six weeks or so I think i kind of know the things to do and not to do to make this work, but it seems that the channels impl from that repo might not be doing the right thing
20:31:12Zevvfor one, it's not running clean either on thread sanitizer, nor on valgrind/helgrind/drd
20:33:55FromDiscord<Ecorous> Is there a nim equivalent to the `directories` rust crate?
20:37:05PMunchWhat does the directories rust crate do?
20:37:36FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> The stdlib has some things like `getConfigDir` and friends
20:37:59PMunchOh, it seems like it's just getting various folders. For that either the stuff in system or possibly in os should suffice
20:41:18FromDiscord<Ecorous> Does it do platform abstraction?
20:41:43FromDiscord<Ecorous> I'm mainly wanting the ProjectDirs part of it
20:41:56PMunchYup
20:42:08PMunchThat's why it's called `os`, it's OS specific stuff
20:43:30PMunchYou even have a `/` operator in there which will combine paths in the platform-appropriate way
20:43:49FromDiscord<Ecorous> Hmm, it doesn't seem to have one that gets %APPDATA% and ~/.local/hare
20:44:08FromDiscord<huantian> i don't want a rabbit in my .local folder
20:44:09FromDiscord<Ecorous> (edit) "~/.local/hare" => "~/.local/share"
20:44:46ixmpphare? in my nim chat˚
20:44:56ixmppsmh
20:46:05FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> The general convention is like `getConfigDir() / "myProgramName" / "myConfig.format"`
20:46:51FromDiscord<Ecorous> I'm not looking for a config dir
20:47:14FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> I was elaborating
20:47:45FromDiscord<Ecorous> It should return AppData\Roaming or .local/share
20:48:35FromDiscord<Ecorous> I guess I can implement it myself, but there should be a library for it
20:48:50FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> PRs welcome 😛
20:49:50FromDiscord<huantian> yeah there should be a `getDataDir()` or something
20:51:26FromDiscord<huantian> man I don't understand this rust code where we got getConfigDir from
20:55:06FromDiscord<huantian> it should be easy enough to make your own though, just copy the getConfigDir code
20:56:08ZevvPMunch: what's element?
20:56:41FromDiscord<enthus1ast> what do you think about the tables\:↵`assert(len(t) == L, "the length of the table changed while iterating over it")`↵Check? i do it and it works fine for me (at least in my usecase)
20:56:48FromDiscord<enthus1ast> i do it in release
20:57:20FromDiscord<Hourglass [She/Her]> Anyone know how I'd store a position? https://wiki.vg/Data_types#Position
20:57:24FromDiscord<Hourglass [She/Her]> Not really sure
20:57:27PMunchZevv, Matrix, sorry
20:57:35ZevvPMunch: right, thanks
20:57:36PMunchMy Matrix client is called Element :P
20:57:54Zevventhus1ast: don't do it. if the spec says no, and it works, there is no guarantee it will still work next week
20:57:54FromDiscord<Hourglass [She/Her]> `
20:58:05FromDiscord<Hourglass [She/Her]> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=4oAy
20:58:15FromDiscord<Hourglass [She/Her]> Not super sure how to do it
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21:00:22Amun-RaHourglass: there's no portable way in C and C++ backends
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21:01:33*Amun-Ra recommends shifts and masks
21:01:34*rockcavera joined #nim
21:18:39FromDiscord<Hourglass [She/Her]> In reply to @Amun-Ra "Hourglass: there's no portable": So it'd be different between both backends?
21:18:46FromDiscord<Hourglass [She/Her]> That's a bit of a pain
21:19:05Amun-RaHourglass: not backends, *compilers* even :>
21:19:21Amun-RaI mean according to the C standard
21:19:46Amun-Rabitfields are implementation defined, you need to rely on implementation
21:19:57FromDiscord<Hourglass [She/Her]> Anyway, the beginnings of my Minecraft packet wrapping library: https://github.com/Yu-Vitaqua-fer-Chronos/Napkins
21:20:12FromDiscord<Hourglass [She/Her]> Not even done because I need to implement all the data types for entity metadata sigh
21:20:18FromDiscord<Hourglass [She/Her]> In reply to @Amun-Ra "bitfields are implementation defined,": That's annoying
21:20:41Amun-RaHourglass: if you need to port data layout from some abi, you can use that implementation
21:20:46FromDiscord<Hourglass [She/Her]> ~~Solution: Virtual bits using sequences of booleans for each bit /j~~
21:20:55Amun-RaHourglass: yes, that's why I've never used bitfields in C
21:20:58FromDiscord<Hourglass [She/Her]> In reply to @Amun-Ra "Hourglass: if you need": Wdym?
21:21:31Amun-RaHourglass: if you get the data from some C lib or sth like that
21:21:45FromDiscord<Hourglass [She/Her]> Ah, nope it's sent over the network
21:22:29Amun-RaI see
21:23:44FromDiscord<Hourglass [She/Her]> Yeah, trying to map out the Minecraft protocol in Nim but this is a massive pain
21:24:10FromDiscord<jtv> The only thing that is not "portable" in terms of C bitfields is order in the face of endianess. Technically implementation defined, but not an issue as a C developer
21:24:25Amun-Ranot really
21:25:48FromDiscord<jtv> Really. I've only been programming in C for 30 years, and know the standard and compiler environment pretty well.
21:26:31Amun-RaN1570, 6.7.2.1.11
21:26:53Amun-Rahttps://pastebin.com/HgHUEuYb
21:26:56FromDiscord<jtv> I know the standard, I'm telling you in practice the only thing that is a portability issue is endianess
21:27:33Amun-RaI mentioned that, too
21:28:07FromDiscord<jtv> And pretty much everywhere 95% of code is going to run these days will be little endian, it's almost not even worth bothering these days
21:28:42FromDiscord<enthus1ast> and also network protocols should use just one
21:29:17Amun-Ragcc and clang use the same bitfield layout, I'm not so sure about msvc
21:29:21FromDiscord<T0lk1en> Hey anyone have any experience with the nim tor library
21:29:58FromDiscord<jtv> Yeah, MSVC is vanilla on bitfields.
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21:46:39rockcaveraI didn't read the talk about bitfields early on, but I stopped using them due to a bug with mm refc and async
21:47:39rockcaveranow for arc/orc it works perfectly.
21:53:06FromDiscord<jtv> Frankly I don't use them very much; primarily they save space that is not at a premium these days. I'm fine having a bunch of bools. Tho if I'm doing anything lock-free then it's sometimes critical to ensure atomicity.
21:55:38NimEventerNew thread by takekikuchi: Does "--compileOnly" with "Dead Code Elimination" work?, see https://forum.nim-lang.org/t/9911
21:59:38Amun-Raflto helps either way
22:02:43FromDiscord<jtv> Yes link time optimization is underappreciated
22:17:06PMunchIn case there are more people out there doing dynamic libraries today: https://peterme.net/dynamic-libraries-in-nim.html
22:17:08*PMunch quit (Quit: leaving)
22:19:36FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Still need to work on seeya more
22:19:49FromDiscord<Hourglass [She/Her]> I'm actually using dynamic libraries for my Nimberite plugin system, I'm using `arc` for the plugins and actual server though
22:20:23FromDiscord<Hourglass [She/Her]> I haven't had any issues yet when it comes to passing Nim objects between the two
22:20:45FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Well aslong as you know about the Nim optimisations it's not too bad
22:21:11FromDiscord<Hourglass [She/Her]> Like having a free-hanging reference will get it cleared?
22:21:20FromDiscord<Hourglass [She/Her]> So just make sure it's kept alive until the function returns?
22:21:27FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> I mean knowing when a object is passed by ref or copy
22:21:29FromDiscord<jtv> Yeah, overall it's one of the more intuitive FFIs you could imagine, at least from C, if you understand the memory model
22:21:53FromDiscord<Hourglass [She/Her]> In reply to @Elegantbeef "I mean knowing when": Ah, we're using ref objects so had no issues there yet
22:24:41FromDiscord<Hourglass [She/Her]> sent a code paste, see https://paste.rs/i7d
22:24:47FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> RTFM
22:24:50FromDiscord<Hourglass [She/Her]> case typ of
22:25:41FromDiscord<Hourglass [She/Her]> Nice I'm right
22:40:29FromDiscord<Haze System> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=4oAR
22:41:27FromDiscord<Phil> No good thing starts with brainfuck
22:42:51FromDiscord<amadan> Looking at the code, you should be using `compileString` and not compile↵Also don't put it inside static
22:42:57FromDiscord<amadan> (edit) "compile↵Also" => "`compile`↵Also"
22:46:11FromDiscord<Hourglass [She/Her]> Oh another system in the wild lol
23:00:01FromDiscord<cletus> Hi everyone, I think the nim compiler is playing peek-a-boo with me:
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23:08:47FromDiscord<Diogenes of Toronto> In reply to @Isofruit "No good thing starts": but many goo things end with it
23:20:31FromDiscord<Haze System> In reply to @amadan "Looking at the code,": i don't have compileString yet, just calling compile directly. the article says to put it in static to make sure its done at compile time and I thought i tried without and got a different error but I'll check 🤔
23:21:00FromDiscord<Haze System> In reply to @Hourglass, When the Hour Strikes "Oh another system in": 👀 heh didn't notice the ampersand in y'all's bio. nice 😎
23:21:32FromDiscord<amadan> Ah I might have gone too far ahead then sorry↵I just copied from the full code linked
23:21:56FromDiscord<Haze System> In reply to @Isofruit "No good thing starts": haven't actually used any myself lol, just learning Nim and using our for practice ^^
23:22:24FromDiscord<Hourglass [She/Her]> God I'm gonna have to write an NBT parser soon, that sounds like hell
23:22:36FromDiscord<Haze System> wassat?
23:23:59FromDiscord<Haze System> In reply to @amadan "Ah I might have": I'll put my whole code up somewhere in a bit after i get home
23:24:14FromDiscord<Hourglass [She/Her]> Ah unrelated to your project but I'm trying to work on a Minecraft server implementation in Nim ^^
23:24:57FromDiscord<Haze System> oo awesome!
23:25:21FromDiscord<Hourglass [She/Her]> I don't actually have any working code yet though since I'm trying to work on making all the basic structures needed for packet type generation via macros
23:28:54FromDiscord<Haze System (they/them)> never done anything with servers but it seems fun. have always dreamed of reverse engineering and making a private server for a game though :x
23:28:56FromDiscord<Faisal Alghamdi> Hello all
23:29:33FromDiscord<Faisal Alghamdi> Its easy to reverse engineer you know
23:29:47FromDiscord<Faisal Alghamdi> Or at least for websites
23:30:15FromDiscord<Faisal Alghamdi> I do it all the time with some sites i use frequently
23:30:37FromDiscord<Haze System (they/them)> I'd want to do an MMO. not easy from what I've heard. it's just a distant fantasy though lol, i haven't done much reverse engineering at all
23:31:08FromDiscord<Hourglass [She/Her]> In reply to @Haze System "never done anything with": Ngl same, but actually trying to decipher packets and work on the logic behind it sounds painful
23:31:59FromDiscord<jtv> "Reverse engineering" web pages (where some version of the source is available if you know where to go) is vastly easier than reverse engineering minecraft, which they're talking about. You basically need to be deep enough to understand low-level machines (like the JVM if you're on the java version).
23:32:35FromDiscord<Hourglass [She/Her]> Tbf, Minecraft has it's protocol documented and reverse engineered already
23:32:44FromDiscord<Hourglass [She/Her]> Mappings and decompilers exist for Java too
23:32:54FromDiscord<jtv> Yes, have you ever used them? 🙂
23:33:14FromDiscord<jtv> They require low-level knowledge still.
23:33:25FromDiscord<Hourglass [She/Her]> Decompilers for MC? I've used it yeah but I'm more focused on reading the docs for protocols
23:33:34FromDiscord<Haze System (they/them)> In reply to @Hourglass, When the Hour Strikes "Tbf, Minecraft has it's": ye that helps a lot. bit doing it yourself is half the fun! at least for me 😜
23:33:45FromDiscord<Hourglass [She/Her]> I have messed with JVM bytecode though, and it's a hell
23:33:45FromDiscord<Haze System (they/them)> (edit) "bit" => "but"
23:33:48FromDiscord<jtv> For any real language.
23:34:14FromDiscord<Hourglass [She/Her]> In reply to @Haze System "ye that helps a": Fair, still sounds like hell aha
23:34:16FromDiscord<Faisal Alghamdi> With minecraft you dont reverse engineer jack shit
23:34:20FromDiscord<Haze System (they/them)> i myself have done a bit of RE with assembly. v fun
23:34:37FromDiscord<Haze System (they/them)> love low level choice ❤️
23:34:39FromDiscord<Hourglass [She/Her]> In reply to @Faisal Alghamdi "With minecraft you dont": Yeah, i don't have to do RE because it's already done
23:34:46FromDiscord<Haze System (they/them)> (edit) "choice" => "code"
23:34:48FromDiscord<Hourglass [She/Her]> Assembly sounds horrid
23:35:14FromDiscord<jtv> For some people it is, for some people it's fun 🙂
23:36:25FromDiscord<Haze System (they/them)> In reply to @Hourglass, When the Hour Strikes "Assembly sounds horrid": it's hard to follow if just reading it, but stepping through it with a debugger helps a lot. the simplicity and being able to see every single thing that happens is kinda, idk, relaxing somehow haha. hard to explain
23:36:39FromDiscord<Hourglass [She/Her]> Fair, I can get that
23:36:53FromDiscord<Hourglass [She/Her]> God I remember my attempt with a brainfuck interpreter
23:37:08FromDiscord<Hourglass [She/Her]> I couldn't figure out loops and broke them xD
23:37:16FromDiscord<Haze System (they/them)> oh no xD
23:39:43FromDiscord<PunchCake> Or it is partially
23:39:43FromDiscord<PunchCake> Because its not meant for human consumption lol↵(@Hourglass [She/Her])
23:39:44FromDiscord<PunchCake> The jvm programmers had to understand it to parse it and execute it
23:39:48FromDiscord<jtv> Well, brainfuck is a lot harder to understand than asm. TBF, x86 in particular is hard to learn, while close to universal, because it's just got SOOO many instructions with so many features, combined with so much legacy cruft
23:40:35FromDiscord<Hourglass [She/Her]> In reply to @PunchCake "Because its not meant": That's true
23:40:37FromDiscord<PunchCake> Assembly isnt that bad anyways
23:40:52FromDiscord<jtv> "not meant for human consumption" isn't strictly true. There have always been JVM assemblers. Even back when writing Java, it was important to have an assembler to be able to more easily test and debug
23:41:05FromDiscord<Haze System (they/them)> yeah x86 is a mess. i prefer asm of retro computers (commodore 64, consoles like Gameboy)
23:41:09FromDiscord<jtv> So the bytecode format directly sure, but it's easy to decode into an asm
23:41:14FromDiscord<PunchCake> Its just a mess when its like 5k lines lol
23:41:26FromDiscord<Hourglass [She/Her]> Oh yeah, i think Nim can do Gameboy development if you're interested in that xD
23:41:43FromDiscord<jtv> I loved SPARC asm the most. Those were the days.
23:41:44FromDiscord<Hourglass [She/Her]> Just gotta avoid a lot of stdlib
23:42:03FromDiscord<Hourglass [She/Her]> And use arc if you use memory management at all
23:42:43FromDiscord<PunchCake> Yes i was talking about directly reading bytecode not the generated asm by the vm
23:42:46FromDiscord<PunchCake> I think thats what you mean?
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23:43:07FromDiscord<PunchCake> Nim compiles to C and C can compile to nearly anything
23:43:16FromDiscord<PunchCake> So nim running on a microwave when lol
23:43:27FromDiscord<PunchCake> Just a disclaimer please dont try to reprogram your microwave
23:44:11FromDiscord<Hourglass [She/Her]> I'm gonna reprogram my microwave
23:44:41FromDiscord<Hourglass [She/Her]> Ngl I really want to mess with robotics but I'm pure xD
23:44:45FromDiscord<Haze System (they/them)> In reply to @Hourglass, When the Hour Strikes "Oh yeah, i think": that could be fun c: though with the original GB assembly is more fun hehe. would def try it with GBA though
23:44:52FromDiscord<Hourglass [She/Her]> Fair!
23:45:05FromDiscord<Hourglass [She/Her]> In reply to @Hourglass, When the Hour Strikes "Ngl I really want": Poor
23:45:28FromDiscord<PunchCake> I remember reading that someone tried to do that and nearly burned down their house↵(@Hourglass [She/Her])
23:46:00FromDiscord<Hourglass [She/Her]> Well then-
23:46:00FromDiscord<cletus> Hi everyone I think the Nim compiler is playing Peek-a-boo with me!↵↵Can someone help me understand while this is happening 🙏 ....................code details --->https://gist.github.com/Uzo2005/82ab2875a75a7d8fe34f60ac26cfc1ee
23:46:11FromDiscord<Hourglass [She/Her]> Virtual microwave simulator? Lol
23:46:17FromDiscord<cletus> (edit) "while" => "why"
23:46:38FromDiscord<PunchCake> lmao↵(@Hourglass [She/Her])
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23:48:36FromDiscord<jtv> @Hourglass [She/Her] Lego Mindstorms is a simple way to get started in robotics
23:49:05FromDiscord<PunchCake> Oh yeah and does nim have the bohem GC?
23:49:07FromDiscord<jtv> The EV3 stuff is versatile and fun. You can buy the educator sets too, with lots of content. And it's all Python
23:49:18FromDiscord<huantian> In reply to @cletus "Hi everyone I think": Line 39 change the ig to when
23:49:24FromDiscord<Hourglass [She/Her]> In reply to @jtv "<@909883978717204561> Lego Mindstorms is": Ooh?
23:49:31FromDiscord<jtv> @PunchCake that's one option, but neither the default one or best one
23:49:34FromDiscord<Haze System (they/them)> In reply to @Haze System "I'll put my whole": okay here's my full code: <https://gist.github.com/HazeSystem/830eff3080ccbaab0669fd9ee2ad17f2>↵↵still getting the error `Error: expression 'compile [string]' is of type 'NimNode' and has to be used (or discarded)`
23:49:37FromDiscord<PunchCake> Believe it or not bjarne wanted a GC in C++ lol
23:49:52FromDiscord<huantian> (edit) "ig" => "if"
23:49:59FromDiscord<PunchCake> It works well in C++ though so im gonna use it↵(@jtv)
23:50:06FromDiscord<PunchCake> Plus arc leaks right?
23:50:20FromDiscord<Hourglass [She/Her]> In reply to @jtv "The EV3 stuff is": That sounds cool tbh... Maybe I should finally get off my ass and get a job for it :p
23:50:26FromDiscord<Hourglass [She/Her]> I think arc is stable now
23:50:33FromDiscord<Hourglass [She/Her]> Nim 2.0 is switching to it
23:50:39FromDiscord<Hourglass [She/Her]> As the default
23:50:42FromDiscord<jtv> Not as far as I can tell. Even the default 1.6 GC is going to be better / more purpose-built then them Bohem one.
23:50:43FromDiscord<huantian> (edit) "39" => "39,42"
23:51:02FromDiscord<huantian> (edit) "when" => "when↵I don’t know why you’re using fieldPairs in the first place"
23:51:21FromDiscord<PunchCake> But arc only does ref counting
23:51:32FromDiscord<PunchCake> If i ref 2 objects to each other im gonna need a cycle collector
23:51:43FromDiscord<PunchCake> Aka bohem
23:52:07FromDiscord<Hourglass [She/Her]> orc
23:52:09FromDiscord<jtv> Without looking too hard at your code, that error message in particular is clear
23:52:26FromDiscord<jtv> The last line, helloWorld(), returns a value of type NimNode, that you must do something with
23:52:26FromDiscord<Hourglass [She/Her]> Orc is like arc and handles cyclic references i believe
23:52:27FromDiscord<PunchCake> It cycle collects?↵(@Hourglass [She/Her])
23:52:40FromDiscord<jtv> If you just want to make sure it compiles, add `discard` in front of it
23:52:42FromDiscord<PunchCake> Then why dont i use boehm?
23:52:47FromDiscord<Haze System (they/them)> In reply to @jtv "The last line, helloWorld(),": ohh right
23:52:51FromDiscord<huantian> Orc = arc + cycle collector
23:53:08FromDiscord<Hourglass [She/Her]> I've never used boehm tbh so i can't say-
23:53:11FromDiscord<Haze System (they/them)> In reply to @Haze System "ohh right": nope, same error :/
23:54:03FromDiscord<cletus> try to `discard helloworld()`
23:54:26FromDiscord<jtv> Seriously, that's what the error you posted is. Don't understand why you've written a proc instead of a macro
23:55:01FromDiscord<jtv> If you discard it, it's certainly not going to do anything, but if you're just trying to get it to compile...
23:55:17FromDiscord<PunchCake> And i dont think garbage collected C++ is that bad right?
23:55:21FromDiscord<jtv> You're returning a parse tree from your proc, and not doing a thing w/ it. If you want to REWRITE the tree, it needs to be a macro
23:55:36FromDiscord<Haze System (they/them)> 🤔
23:55:58FromDiscord<Haze System (they/them)> i see. i think
23:56:48FromDiscord<jtv> PunchCake, you're free to use it, but it's not going to give you better performance, or anything. The whole point about that particular collector is that it's CONSERVATIVE in the face of pointer arithmetic. When you disallow pointer arithmetic in your managed pools, you can do a lot better.
23:57:10FromDiscord<cletus> In reply to @cletus "Hi everyone I think": Please who can help with this
23:59:22FromDiscord<PunchCake> Hm alright, thanks!↵(@jtv)