<< 19-07-2023 >>
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01:06:32NimEventerNew Nimble package! docid - Document IDs generation and validation, see https://github.com/thisago/docid
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01:08:36FromDiscord<ringabout> In reply to @yayo256 "Sorry for the abruptness.": Just so you know, there is already a Japanese discord server => https://discord.com/invite/3umT33kQhS I will post the request to the moderator channel.
01:08:42FromDiscord<ringabout> (edit) "channel." => "channel anyway."
01:21:12FromDiscord<ringabout> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrEJLmKhyAA
01:24:24FromDiscord<ringabout> It doesn't seem to be an open source project though https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pms08GVHzk
01:26:16FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> The framework will be they said
01:26:30FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> But the game won't be, not everyone is stubborn as me
01:27:58FromDiscord<michaelb.eth> he said he'd probably open source the game after year or so of selling it
01:30:37FromDiscord<ringabout> Yeah, that's understandable.
01:36:34FromDiscord<_gumbercules> So another 2d game framework for Nim?
01:36:37FromDiscord<_gumbercules> Joy....
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01:37:13FromDiscord<_gumbercules> Eventually folks are going to wise up to the fact that all you need for 2d games with Nim is SDL2 unless you're ambitious and then all you need is SDL2 + a sprite batcher
01:37:14FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Hey i'm working on a 3D one just it's at a point I can happily make games with 😛
01:38:20FromDiscord<_gumbercules> In reply to @Elegantbeef "Hey i'm working on": well this is novel
01:38:37FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Well if you want shaders you cannot just use sdl2
01:38:37FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Many 2D games want/need shaders
01:38:38FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> But yea with `SDL_RenderGeometry` you can do like 99% of what 2D games need
01:39:31FromDiscord<_gumbercules> Actually I think you can with SDL2 gpu
01:39:48FromDiscord<_gumbercules> https://github.com/grimfang4/sdl-gpu
01:39:52FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Right sdl2 is just opengl ontop of sdl2
01:40:01FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Prestige used it on his game and sorta regretted it as it hid details
01:40:14FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> We couldnt figure out how to get a framebuffer to work for instance
01:40:22FromDiscord<_gumbercules> hrm
01:40:32FromDiscord<_gumbercules> well regardless, I'm not going to get excited over ANOTHER 2d game framework for Nim
01:40:43FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Right I sorta agree 😄
01:40:48FromDiscord<_gumbercules> unless it's doing something very novel, which is difficult in that space
01:41:12FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> It's not that difficult to make a good 2D renderer using SDL2 and opengl
01:41:39FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Which we both (this button has died)now
01:41:53FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> My K key is being silly
01:42:07FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Of course it fixes itself now....
01:43:49FromDiscord<anuke> I made mine because I want to know (and customize) how things work. None of the options at the time seemed that great, or weren't based on pure Nim.
01:44:12FromDiscord<_gumbercules> Err I'm not finding fault with people rolling their own engine / framework / whatever
01:44:29FromDiscord<_gumbercules> it's just 30 2d game frameworks for Nim isn't what is going to attract new users to making games with Nim
01:44:42FromDiscord<_gumbercules> what will is providing the building blocks for a framework / game in Nim
01:44:43FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Yea, that's understandable
01:45:08FromDiscord<_gumbercules> like - almost every other language at this point has some sort of library for handling cross platform graphics APIs
01:45:22FromDiscord<_gumbercules> Nim doesn't have that
01:45:36FromDiscord<anuke> Yeah, there is no definitive solid option for that.
01:45:40FromDiscord<_gumbercules> Zig has Zig gamedev, Rust has a bunch of shit and WGPU Native, Nim has literally nothing - and I am to blame for part of that
01:45:52FromDiscord<_gumbercules> I probably got everyone starte don the whole write your own framework in Nim
01:46:39FromDiscord<_gumbercules> since I was responsible for https://github.com/fragworks/frag and https://github.com/zacharycarter/zengine and before that I guess there was Rod
01:46:48FromDiscord<_gumbercules> then Nico came out and everyone started using Nico
01:47:10FromDiscord<_gumbercules> Oh and there was SDL_Game or whatever for a while that people were using
01:47:20FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> NimGame2 or w/e
01:47:28FromDiscord<_gumbercules> ultimatley though, it'd be nice if Nim had something like - https://github.com/michal-z/zig-gamedev
01:47:52FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Yea that'd be nice
01:47:55FromDiscord<_gumbercules> or at least a project that was composed of building blocks like thse and made them reusable
01:48:28FromDiscord<anuke> That's impressive, Zig seems to be moving very quickly.
01:48:47FromDiscord<_gumbercules> that's where I was going with the new incarnation of Frag but because I wanted to make the APIs able to be consumed by non-Nim programs as well, it ended up with a very difficult to use API and I don't think Nim users would have found it attractive
01:49:00FromDiscord<_gumbercules> so now I'm focusing on WASM as that seems to be more approachable
01:49:15FromDiscord<_gumbercules> (edit) "so now I'm focusing on WASM as that seems to be more approachable ... " added "for most people"
01:49:22FromDiscord<_gumbercules> (edit) "so now I'm focusing on WASM as that seems to be more approachable ... for" added "/ tolerable"
01:49:48FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> I sorta did that with gooey, except that I forced a stateful api that's quite horrid to use it seems 😄
01:50:12FromDiscord<_gumbercules> In reply to @anuke "That's impressive, Zig seems": yeah, and they also have: https://machengine.org/
01:50:31FromDiscord<_gumbercules> although I haven't seen much news on mach lately
01:50:41FromDiscord<_gumbercules> probably because the developer was bragging last year about how they code 100+ hours a week
01:51:25FromDiscord<anuke> In reply to @_gumbercules "yeah, and they also": How does Zig avoid extra dependencies when glfw depends on X11 headers and stuff? https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/371759389889003532/1131040568353497109/image.png
01:51:51FromDiscord<_gumbercules> They don't - they just compile and link GLFW statically
01:52:31FromDiscord<_gumbercules> so you still need to build and link GLFW
01:52:34FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Zig is use git submodules presently for package management
01:52:45FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> It works, but isnt the best experience
01:52:46FromDiscord<_gumbercules> but the Mach project builds glfw for you when you build it
01:53:00FromDiscord<anuke> So it still depends on stuff like `xorg-dev libgl1-mesa-dev`? (Which I have to install to compile and statically link GLFW)
01:53:01FromDiscord<_gumbercules> very similar to what I was doing with Frag and I'm currently doing with my project using nimscript
01:53:05FromDiscord<_gumbercules> yup
01:53:15FromDiscord<_gumbercules> it will still depend on whatever libraries GLFW depends on - no magic there
01:53:29FromDiscord<anuke> well that's.. a bit deceptive
01:53:47FromDiscord<elegantbeef> Bridge has got real slow 😄
01:54:23FromDiscord<_gumbercules> In reply to @anuke "well that's.. a bit": Yeah - I don't think there is anything magical about the Mach project, the author just likes to write a lot
01:55:34FromDiscord<_gumbercules> like - they wrote an entire blog post about a bug they found and fixed in GLFW https://devlog.hexops.com/2021/perfecting-glfw-for-zig-and-finding-undefined-behavior/ - basically showing they know how to use asan
01:56:07FromDiscord<elegantbeef> Love pointless blogposts
01:58:34FromDiscord<_gumbercules> Having said all that - Zig having a project like Mach is a boon for the langauge I think. Just having a direction and people working on a common ecosystem would be amazing for Nim, but we've never had that level of cohesion in the Nim game dev space
01:59:05FromDiscord<_gumbercules> generally it's a handful of people working on disparate projects at the same time building their own tech or using something like Godot / Raylib / UE etc
01:59:33FromDiscord<elegantbeef> Concepts + generics, cmon we can do it! 😄
01:59:47FromDiscord<_gumbercules> Maybe I should resurrect zengine and replace the GL code with WGPU code
01:59:54FromDiscord<_gumbercules> and formalize the APIs
02:00:09FromDiscord<_gumbercules> then we'd have a raylib competitor of sorts at least
02:00:21FromDiscord<_gumbercules> after all it was mostly a port of Raylib
02:02:25FromDiscord<elegantbeef> hey this conversation has made me realise how to make a generic atlas generator
02:03:37FromDiscord<anuke> sent a long message, see http://ix.io/4AVR
02:05:15FromDiscord<elegantbeef> Plenty of people make game projects based on raylib, though don't know how many have been publisehd
02:05:44FromDiscord<elegantbeef> But I'm presently making a game in something not to disimilar to raylib so I'm clearly biased
02:07:58FromDiscord<elegantbeef> I sorta fall into "Engine's are bloat" party now, so I'll go live in my make believe world 😄
02:09:33FromDiscord<_gumbercules> In reply to @anuke "This may be important": I think you can easily do 3d if you're motivated without an engine like UE / Unity
02:09:49FromDiscord<elegantbeef> I agree there
02:10:09FromDiscord<_gumbercules> you can simplify things a lot by not doing any skeletal animation
02:10:26FromDiscord<elegantbeef> Right, also no physics, though there are a few easily accessed physics engines
02:10:28FromDiscord<_gumbercules> space games are also super easy to do in 3d - probably one of the easiest to do with minimal assets
02:10:40FromDiscord<elegantbeef> Grid based 3D games are easy aswell 😛
02:10:50FromDiscord<_gumbercules> Yup - grids make everything easier
02:10:58FromDiscord<elegantbeef> It's just 2D but with more pixels
02:11:06FromDiscord<_gumbercules> although we all know hexagons are the bestagons
02:11:06FromDiscord<anuke> I don't know, it seemed extremely complex when I looked into it. So many ways to implement the low-level rendering alone. When I look at engine update logs I don't even know what half the things they talk about are, like <https://bevyengine.org/news/bevy-0-11/>
02:11:22FromDiscord<_gumbercules> In reply to @anuke "I don't know, it": because they're overengineering the shit out of most of what they're doing
02:11:27FromDiscord<_gumbercules> and they're building an engine without a game in mind
02:11:28FromDiscord<elegantbeef> Right it has a bunch of things for AAA quality 3D graphics
02:11:45FromDiscord<elegantbeef> So PBR, AO, GI, stuff you might need but also might not
02:12:15FromDiscord<elegantbeef> For context https://streamable.com/fcf86t is made in pure Nim and is a total of maybe 10k loc
02:12:19FromDiscord<_gumbercules> yeah - for instance, I'm currently working on a multiplayer 3d virtual console that is going to limit the user to low poly graphics
02:12:26FromDiscord<_gumbercules> I don't need PBR
02:12:28FromDiscord<elegantbeef> "Pure Nim" more like it
02:12:41FromDiscord<elegantbeef> Since it uses Assimp, Sdl2, Miniaudio
02:12:53FromDiscord<_gumbercules> I'm using https://github.com/flecs-hub/flecs-systems-sokol with modifications for my renderer
02:12:56FromDiscord<elegantbeef> But I compile using `nim` and don't directly use any other language so I think it counts
02:13:07FromDiscord<anuke> You have miniaudio bindings? The low level stuff, or the audio engine?
02:13:30FromDiscord<elegantbeef> https://github.com/beef331/miniaudio/blob/master/src/miniaudio.nim not fully bound just what I use
02:13:37FromDiscord<_gumbercules> http://guillaumeblanc.github.io/ozz-animation/ - for skeletal animation (https://floooh.github.io/sokol-html5/ozz-skin-sapp.html)
02:13:53FromDiscord<_gumbercules> I mean - most of my engine is written for me I'm just writing glue code
02:13:59FromDiscord<elegantbeef> Same here 😄
02:14:02FromDiscord<_gumbercules> the hardest part thus far has been the networking
02:14:13FromDiscord<_gumbercules> because I'm using webrtc and doing all this in the browser
02:14:16FromDiscord<elegantbeef> The best engines as we all know are made due to necessity of the game you're making
02:14:58FromDiscord<_gumbercules> I'v'e built engines just to build engines and you burn yourself out adding the Nth feature you may or may not use in a project
02:15:19FromDiscord<_gumbercules> if you have unlimited motivation for projects without seeing real progress - then you're the perfect yak shaving game engine builder candidate
02:15:34FromDiscord<elegantbeef> Mine is really barebones and more akin to raylib in that it abstracts most of what opengl does in a slightly more reasonable way
02:15:51FromDiscord<_gumbercules> but being able to see a project be built alongside the engien you're building tends to keep things in focus and provides a lot more motivatioin along th eway
02:16:06FromDiscord<_gumbercules> (edit) "th eway" => "the way"
02:16:09FromDiscord<elegantbeef> PS my entire game is FOSS presently <https://github.com/beef331/mindthegap3D>
02:16:10FromDiscord<_gumbercules> (edit) "motivatioin" => "motivation"
02:16:25FromDiscord<elegantbeef> No clue if I'll keep it that way but it is what it is right now
02:16:39FromDiscord<elegantbeef> So many bad things in there right now that need to be changed
02:16:50FromDiscord<_gumbercules> Gotta go do chores, be back later
02:17:01FromDiscord<_gumbercules> Also need to publish the code to my current project - may do that tonight if I get time to work on it
02:17:48FromDiscord<elegantbeef> Buh bye
02:18:46FromDiscord<anuke> In reply to @elegantbeef "https://github.com/beef331/miniaudio/blob/master/sr": Weird how miniaudio sound-playing appears to be based on paths to sounds as a string?
02:19:17FromDiscord<anuke> Soloud has you make a sound -> load it from bytes or a file -> play it
02:20:34FromDiscord<elegantbeef> Miniaudio allows loading from binary buffers aswell
02:22:35FromDiscord<elegantbeef> I have only really made high level wrappings for what I need
02:22:39FromDiscord<anuke> What do you do if you want to play, say, 10 sounds of the same time?
02:22:42FromDiscord<anuke> (edit) "time?" => "type?"
02:23:44FromDiscord<elegantbeef> duplicate the sound 10 times, add them to a list then play them, then check that they're finished, if so remove them
02:24:10FromDiscord<anuke> duplication sounds expensive
02:24:23FromDiscord<elegantbeef> Only cause I'm using ref objects like a dullard
02:24:34FromDiscord<elegantbeef> I don't think ref objects is needed
02:24:58FromDiscord<anuke> You need to destroy it though, right?
02:25:00FromDiscord<elegantbeef> I believe they have their own ref count and pool the audio in the backend
02:25:32FromDiscord<elegantbeef> So a Sound is just like `isPlaying: bool, pos: int, volume: float, sound: ptr Sound`
02:26:02FromDiscord<elegantbeef> The audio isnt duplicated afaik, I just dumbly wrapped the api since I was uncertain how it worked
02:38:55FromDiscord<_gumbercules> @elegantbeef @elegantbeef @elegantbeef @elegantbeef 42↵B🌌🎆🎆🎆🎆😂🎆🎆😂😁😔😔☹️(⁠ ⁠╹⁠▽⁠╹⁠ ⁠)(⁠•⁠‿⁠•⁠)(⁠◕⁠ᴗ⁠◕⁠✿⁠)(⁠◔⁠‿⁠◔⁠)(⁠◕⁠ᴗ⁠◕⁠✿⁠)\⁠(⁠๑⁠╹⁠◡⁠╹↵B a mlnl ↵2 2b(⁠θ⁠‿⁠θ⁠)(⁠ʘ⁠ᴗ⁠ʘ⁠✿⁠)(⁠≧⁠▽⁠≦⁠)🍅🌑🐷☹️🐷 https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/37175
02:39:06FromDiscord<_gumbercules> sent a long message, see http://ix.io/4AVT
02:39:24FromDiscord<elegantbeef> Someone's kid found their phone
02:40:24FromDiscord<bostonboston> Interesting discussion
02:55:46FromDiscord<arkanoid> is stdlib compatible with arc, or there are cycles here and there and orc is generally required?
02:56:15FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> A lot of the stdlib will work
02:56:25FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> But something will leak like `lists` and other similar graphics
02:56:28FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> graph types
03:01:17FromDiscord<arkanoid> lists = seq ?
03:03:22FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> No
03:03:34FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Lists as in https://nim-lang.org/docs/lists.html
03:04:51FromDiscord<arkanoid> oh! sure, that's obviously cyclic
03:05:18FromDiscord<arkanoid> will the nim compiler warn if a cyclic type is used when arc is selected?
03:05:32FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Nope
03:10:23FromDiscord<arkanoid> is it because detecting it is hard? I though compiler needs to know if a type is cyclic or not to calc object size
03:11:01FromDiscord<arkanoid> I know that the obvious answer is "why the heck are you using ARC if you don't want to track what is cyclic". I'm just curious
03:15:55FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Detecting it is easy it's just orc, but error instead of cycle check
03:23:41FromDiscord<arkanoid> error? I though you just said compiler won't warn
03:25:42FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> It doesnt
03:26:40FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> I said it's not that hard to implement on top of Orc's work
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06:09:36FromDiscord<shalokshalom> In reply to @elegantbeef "Someone's kid found their": And he found the answer to life, the universe and the rest 😉
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06:51:43FromDiscord<punchcake> Is it worth switching from 1.6 to the master release?
06:54:14FromDiscord<shalokshalom> "worth"?
06:59:37FromDiscord<voidwalker> I switched for the new std\paths module
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07:17:54sthalikhey
07:18:12sthalikhow capable is nim's type system? is it most like C#, scala, ML/haskell or C++?
07:18:24Amun-Raway more capable than C++
07:18:33sthalikC++ type system is turing-equivalent
07:18:51sthalikparticularly, I'm only interested in static polymorphism
07:19:12Amun-Rawhat I miss the most in C++ type system is distinct type
07:19:40sthalikin C++ you do that with operator overloading
07:20:04sthalikin the end, newtype end up stored in registers like their base type would
07:20:15sthalikit's used for units of measure
07:20:21Amun-Rain C++ I have to use my own class for that
07:21:04Amun-RaI only have to write "type MyInt = distinct uint64" in nim
07:22:26sthalikis pattern matching refutable like in functional languages?
07:31:37FromDiscord<bung8954> `var pp = cast[proc()](fn.f)` Error: expression cannot be cast to 'proc (){.closure.}'. any idea?
07:33:24FromDiscord<enthus1ast> is `cast[proc() {.nimcall.}(fn.f)` valid?
07:33:31FromDiscord<enthus1ast> ]
07:34:06FromDiscord<enthus1ast> `cast[proc() {.nimcall.}](fn.f)`
07:44:37FromDiscord<bung8954> yes , it's valid
07:47:11FromDiscord<odexine> In reply to @sthalik "is pattern matching refutable": nim doesnt do pattern matching "in the compiler"
07:47:59sthalikI see, thanks
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08:06:02FromDiscord<demotomohiro> `proc()` is a closure and it contains the proc pointer and the pointer to implicitly passed environment.↵`proc() {.nimcall.}` is just a proc pointer.
08:11:45FromDiscord<punchcake> In reply to @odexine "nim doesnt do pattern": I was wondering if nim converters case statments to switch in the generated code, is this true?
08:19:24FromDiscord<odexine> i dont know
08:35:55FromDiscord<punchcake> Welp lets ask araq
08:36:23FromDiscord<punchcake> In reply to @punchcake "I was wondering if": @_araq does nim do this?
08:37:42FromDiscord<demotomohiro> You can see Nim generated C code in nimcache dir.
08:39:02FromDiscord<demotomohiro> https://nim-lang.github.io/Nim/nimc.html#compiler-usage-generated-c-code-directory
08:51:05FromDiscord<System64 ~ Flandre Scarlet> Nim playground dead?
08:52:22FromDiscord<System64 ~ Flandre Scarlet> !eval echo (2 == 3).int
08:53:23NimBotCompile failed: <no output>
08:54:33FromDiscord<System64 ~ Flandre Scarlet> !eval echo "test"
08:55:33NimBotCompile failed: <no output>
08:55:51FromDiscord<System64 ~ Flandre Scarlet> wtf
08:56:06FromDiscord<odexine> In reply to @punchcake "Welp lets ask araq": i think you should be more careful pinging araq like that
08:56:12FromDiscord<odexine> its not appreciated
08:56:18FromDiscord<odexine> (edit) "its not appreciated ... " added "unless its truly urgent"
09:04:36FromDiscord<_araq> @punchcake don't highlight me.
09:07:36FromDiscord<punchcake> In reply to @_araq "<@655759729477287956> don't highlight me.": Okay sorry
09:11:08FromDiscord<punchcake> In reply to @odexine "i think you should": Its just a @ bro
09:11:50FromDiscord<odexine> ?
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09:25:52FromDiscord<ambient3332> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=4AWK
09:26:27FromDiscord<ambient3332> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=4AWL
09:27:13FromDiscord<ambient3332> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=4AWN
09:27:42PMunch@System64_~_Flandre_Scarlet, playground should be back up now
09:28:35PMunchambient, probably not related, but are you sure you want to use `float`?
09:29:00PMunch!eval echo "test"
09:29:05NimBottest
09:30:42FromDiscord<ambient3332> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=4AWO
09:30:49FromDiscord<ambient3332> i changed to float32, but didn't change anything
09:31:39FromDiscord<demotomohiro> You can also use `cfloat` that is same to `float` in C/C++.
09:32:11FromDiscord<demotomohiro> sizeof(int) or sizeof(float) can be different in Nim and C.
09:34:55FromDiscord<demotomohiro> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=4AWR
09:35:31FromDiscord<odexine> In reply to @demotomohiro "Maybe that is becasue": shouldnt cause an issue other than "ambiguous call"
09:36:05FromDiscord<demotomohiro> In reply to @odexine "shouldnt cause an issue": yes
09:36:09FromDiscord<ambient3332> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=4AWS
09:36:39FromDiscord<odexine> it woulkdnt shadow but cause the ambiguous call error if not qualified
09:38:00FromDiscord<odexine> try using `{.compile: "file".}` instead of the parenthesised version maybe
09:39:25FromDiscord<ambient3332> In reply to @odexine "it woulkdnt shadow but": Yeah that works
09:39:35FromDiscord<ambient3332> apparently it wants more parameters with parentheses
09:39:51FromDiscord<odexine> yeah i guessed it from looking at the manual again
09:43:56FromDiscord<ambient3332> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=4AWT
10:03:40FromDiscord<odexine> nice
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10:50:09gsthello, anyone knows if there is an example of usage of valgrind client request from nim?
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10:53:07gstthe api is defined as c macros in a header file, the macros expand to c/assembly and I don't know how to use that from nim, {.header: ...} does not help. Any ideas that do not require rewriting?
10:59:42FromDiscord<demotomohiro> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=4AX8
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11:38:58FromDiscord<punchcake> are there any keyword to tell the GC to allocate an object on the heap?
11:39:05FromDiscord<punchcake> or does it just decide on its own
11:40:29PMunchWell you can use `new`
11:40:52PMunchBut typically you just don't worry about it
11:41:09FromDiscord<mohamed> Does nimsuggest support concepts??
11:41:24PMunchWhy wouldn't it?
11:41:29FromDiscord<punchcake> In reply to @PMunch "Well you can use": so the gc just decides on its own?
11:41:34PMunchIt supports everything Nim supports, as it is technically just Nim
11:41:52PMunchpunchcake, not quite. If you have a `ref object` type then it is allocated on the heap
11:41:59PMunchOtherwise it goes on the stack
11:42:10PMunchThat's the general rule
11:42:24FromDiscord<punchcake> In reply to @PMunch "Otherwise it goes on": wdym?
11:42:33FromDiscord<punchcake> i never do any `ref`
11:42:40FromDiscord<punchcake> so everything is stored on the stack?
11:42:56PMunchYou can make an object like `type SomeObj = object` or you can do `type SomeObj = ref object`
11:43:04PMunchThe latter is stored on the heap, the former on the stack
11:43:23FromDiscord<punchcake> what does latter mean
11:43:47PMunchBut if you pass it to a function and the object is large enough it will get passed by pointer anyways, so you don't need to worry about that
11:43:55PMunchlatter just means the last one
11:44:18FromDiscord<punchcake> so what do i need to do to program nim correctly
11:44:25PMunchHave fun?
11:44:38PMunchOh, and use spaces and camelCase
11:44:40FromDiscord<punchcake> like will the GC allocate to heap if my stack is closed to getting overflowed
11:44:52FromDiscord<punchcake> (edit) "closed" => "close"
11:45:04PMunchDon't think so, but I've never had stack overflows
11:45:18FromDiscord<punchcake> the stack is pretty big
11:45:21FromDiscord<punchcake> its 2 mb
11:47:12FromDiscord<mohamed> but you can`t see the fields that are defined in the concept it shows it as an empty type
11:47:26PMunchThere are no fields defined in a concept
11:47:36PMunchA concept is basically just a rule to match objects against
11:47:47PMunchLike a really fancy generic
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11:49:57FromDiscord<mohamed> I want to have something like go interfaces where the interface matches every type and when you use it in a function you can use the types that that interface define
12:06:59FromDiscord<djazz> sequences are also on the heap
12:08:55PMunchdjazz, sure, same are strings, but that's because they are reference objects under the hood
12:10:04FromDiscord<djazz> Right... Hmm, heap is an issue on embedded
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12:16:12FromDiscord<djazz> Fragmentation
12:18:20FromDiscord<nervecenter> In reply to @djazz "sequences are also on": They're allocated on the heap but are managed by a pointer on the stack, so behaviorally they're like stack data.
12:19:46FromDiscord<djazz> Yeah the data I mean
12:30:47FromDiscord<eliot> im very new to programming and i was wondering if it was possible to export or import a variable from another file?
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12:36:20FromDiscord<gogolxdong666> how to cast `var dataPtr = cast[ptr UncheckedArray[byte]](dataVal.mvData)` to seq[byte]
12:41:14FromDiscord<demotomohiro> In reply to @eliot "im very new to": You can export variables like `const PI = 3.141`.↵https://nim-lang.org/docs/manual.html#modules
12:42:23FromDiscord<eliot> In reply to @demotomohiro "You can export variables": thank you!
12:44:45FromDiscord<demotomohiro> In reply to @gogolxdong666 "how to cast `var": Better to use `toOpenArray`:↵https://nim-lang.org/docs/system.html#toOpenArray%2Cptr.UncheckedArray%5BT%5D%2Cint%2Cint↵Or copy to seq[byte].
12:48:35FromDiscord<gogolxdong666> 👌
12:50:10FromDiscord<gogolxdong666> https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/371759389889003532/1131206345442471936/image.png
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13:20:42dterlyakhincan somebody explain what impl and aux suffix is? I find these in many nim codebases and don't understand its purposes. dont see them in other languages
13:29:53FromDiscord<punchcake> so how do i switch to nim devel exactly?
13:30:03FromDiscord<punchcake> do i just replace my current bin with the new nim devel bin?
13:32:00PMunchchoosenim devel
13:32:16FromDiscord<punchcake> is there choosenim on windows
13:33:05FromDiscord<punchcake> yes there is
13:36:05FromDiscord<punchcake> probably should add choosenim to path
13:36:13FromDiscord<punchcake> is it safe to put it in nim bin?
13:40:53FromDiscord<odexine> In reply to @dterlyakhin "can somebody explain what": impl means implementation, like the "real logic" of the function
13:41:01FromDiscord<odexine> i dont know what aux means other than maybe auxilliary
13:41:34FromDiscord<punchcake> hm nim devel seems to cause problems with qml
13:44:25dterlyakhinWhy might it be useful to separate a function and its implementation?
13:44:25dterlyakhinfor example https://github.com/search?q=repo%3Astatus-im%2Fnim-chronos+Impl&type=code
13:44:25dterlyakhinthere are single proc and procImpl, is it overengineering pattern?
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14:07:07FromDiscord<arkanoid> If I have a C++ library with "extern C" interface, can I use it with "nim c" or I am forced to use "nim cpp" ?
14:14:00FromDiscord<spotlightkid> I think, you can compile the library with cpp and then link to it with "nim c" and appropriate `--passL` flags.
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14:30:04FromDiscord<ambient3332> You can c2api the C API .h and just use that as an import
14:30:08FromDiscord<ambient3332> c2nim that is
14:30:21FromDiscord<ambient3332> probably after a few manual fixes
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14:54:24FromDiscord<michaelb.eth> In reply to @arkanoid "If I have a": you should be able to use `{.importc.}` and compile with `nim c`
14:59:39FromDiscord<arkanoid> thanks
16:34:57NimEventerNew Nimble package! gookie - Google Cookies. In your hands, see https://github.com/thisago/gookie
16:46:13FromDiscord<odexine> shoulda named it d--
16:58:02FromDiscord<bostonboston> Without using mem copy is the fastest way to turn an array into a seq a for loop of .add()
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17:19:13FromDiscord<Phil> Look Rika, we don't all need to have disrupteks naming sense
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17:24:45FromDiscord<odexine> In reply to @bostonboston "Without using mem copy": probably faster to set capacity first then add, to further amortise the resize cost
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17:55:37FromDiscord<JJ> In reply to @mohamed "I want to have": so there are two forms of concepts, old-style concepts and new-style concepts
17:55:48FromDiscord<JJ> old-style concepts are unsound but a little more powerful
17:55:57FromDiscord<JJ> new-style concepts are essentially interfaces
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18:13:53FromDiscord<arathanis> In reply to @omentic "so there are two": are both available in the latest stable and/or devel? are there docs about the difference?
18:14:22FromDiscord<arathanis> concepts still seem to be one of those big "????" parts where its very experimental to the point where knowing exactly what does and does not work is a bit up in the air
18:30:11FromDiscord<eliot> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=4AYV
18:30:23FromDiscord<eliot> im feeling as though im doing something wrong here
18:31:42FromDiscord<nervecenter> you can first stop using `== true`
18:31:48FromDiscord<nervecenter> `if isIpv6:`
18:31:57FromDiscord<nervecenter> `if isJson:`
18:32:10FromDiscord<JJ> In reply to @arathanis "are both available in": i believe both are available in stable. old-style concepts are properly documented here: https://nim-lang.github.io/Nim/manual_experimental.html#concepts, new style concepts are only documented here: https://github.com/nim-lang/RFCs/issues/168
18:32:30FromDiscord<huantian> In reply to @eliot "hello, i had a": This is actually a pretty good example for showing how to refactor to remove duplicate code
18:32:39FromDiscord<huantian> But I’m on mobile so I can’t guide you through it
18:33:21FromDiscord<eliot> hm alright ill try to do some research on it
18:34:03FromDiscord<eliot> In reply to @nervecenter "you can first stop": thank you
18:34:06FromDiscord<huantian> Specifically for your code, notice that in the end you’re just calling getCurrentIp with some URL
18:34:22FromDiscord<huantian> It’s just that the URL changes depending on the paeans
18:35:13FromDiscord<huantian> But because no matter what the input is, you call that function with a url, you only need to include the code `getCurrentIp(url)` once in your entire function
18:35:23FromDiscord<huantian> (edit) "function" => "function, at the end"
18:35:27FromDiscord<nervecenter> @eliot Here's q quick refactor I did, probably not optimal but communicates some of Nim's capabilities
18:35:36FromDiscord<nervecenter> sent a code paste, see https://paste.rs/jKtmt
18:37:45FromDiscord<eliot> ooooh, i think i understand
18:38:28FromDiscord<huantian> I would probably move the & formatSuffix out of the if expression but that’s the general idea
18:38:32FromDiscord<eliot> but i don't understand how an if/else statement is in a let statement
18:38:37FromDiscord<JJ> another helpful feature, although it doesn't apply here, is nim provides an implicit `result` variable initialized to your return type
18:38:42FromDiscord<huantian> (edit) "I would probably move the & formatSuffix out of the if expression ... but" added "(duplicated code)"
18:38:49FromDiscord<JJ> In reply to @eliot "but i don't understand": it is technically an if/else expression there
18:39:01FromDiscord<nervecenter> In reply to @eliot "but i don't understand": It's just an expression, one value if condition, else another valyue
18:39:05FromDiscord<nervecenter> (edit) "valyue" => "value"
18:39:11FromDiscord<JJ> there's a distinction between "expressions" which return to a value, and statements which do no
18:39:12FromDiscord<JJ> (edit) "no" => "not"
18:39:24FromDiscord<nervecenter> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=4AZ1
18:39:43FromDiscord<eliot> oooh ok
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18:40:21FromDiscord<eliot> i think i got most of it but i'll have to learn more of the subtle differences
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18:40:35FromDiscord<JJ> In reply to @eliot "but i don't understand": https://nim-lang.github.io/Nim/manual.html#statements-and-expressions↵if/else, when/else, cases, and blocks are both statements and expressions
18:41:23FromDiscord<nervecenter> Think of a statement as an instruction that might be executed, and an expression as a value that could go anywhere a literal might
18:41:38FromDiscord<spatchler> In reply to @spatchler "hi, im having problems": Can anyone help me with this problem?
18:41:56FromDiscord<eliot> In reply to @nervecenter "Think of a statement": ok i think i've got it
18:42:39FromDiscord<huantian> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=4AZ3
18:42:50FromDiscord<huantian> (edit) "https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=4AZ3" => "https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=4AZ4"
18:43:02FromDiscord<huantian> (edit) "https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=4AZ4" => "https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=4AZ5"
18:43:30FromDiscord<JJ> In reply to @huantian "I personally like something": getCurrentIp is implicitly returned here because the body of the proc is treated as an expression
18:44:31FromDiscord<nervecenter> Yes, if `getCurrentIp` returns a string and is also the last line, it assumes that is the return value
18:44:33FromDiscord<eliot> so to differentiate between an expression and a statement we have to look at the indentation?
18:44:43FromDiscord<nervecenter> No
18:45:20FromDiscord<JJ> In reply to @eliot "so to differentiate between": no, you look at the semantics. if getCurrentIp was a proc that didn't return anything it would be a statement
18:45:25FromDiscord<arathanis> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=4AZ7
18:45:27FromDiscord<huantian> On a higher level, I'd also question your overall api design for this function↵for example, is there any situation where you would actually need the json response from the api? It's always just a single value right, so what's the benifit?
18:45:32FromDiscord<arathanis> for if you want to make everyone angry at you
18:47:09FromDiscord<JJ> there is a rule in nim where a series of statements ending with an expression is treated as an expression
18:47:27FromDiscord<JJ> (well, that's kind of a clunky way of putting it)
18:47:52FromDiscord<eliot> In reply to @huantian "On a higher level,": i was trying to replicate what they did on the unofficial crystal library for the api
18:48:36FromDiscord<eliot> In reply to @omentic "there is a rule": so if a series of expressions end with a statement is it a statement?
18:49:24FromDiscord<huantian> In reply to @eliot "i was trying to": I see, I think for Nim there'd be no reason to get the json reponse
18:49:35FromDiscord<huantian> since you'd have to parse it for no benifit
18:49:39FromDiscord<nervecenter> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=4AZ8
18:49:58FromDiscord<nervecenter> (edit) "https://paste.rs/UkKSA" => "https://paste.rs/Oy30B"
18:50:14FromDiscord<huantian> (edit) "benifit" => "benefit"
18:50:19FromDiscord<JJ> In reply to @eliot "so if a series": no because you can't have a one-off expression. all expressions must be handled, via being returned in a function as above, used by a different function (ex. `echo`), or explictly `discard`ed
18:50:59FromDiscord<JJ> however the last line of a scope (function scope, block scope, if statement scope...) is special
18:52:57FromDiscord<eliot> In reply to @nervecenter "Expressions are any block": oh so if i were to simplify baseUrl is a book being read while `ipifyUrl &= "?format=json"` is just the book on the shelf
18:53:19FromDiscord<spatchler> In reply to @spatchler "Can anyone help me": ?
18:53:31FromDiscord<nervecenter> In reply to @eliot "oh so if i": I am not understanding this analogy
18:54:39FromDiscord<eliot> In reply to @nervecenter "I am not understanding": as in the baseUrl is actually being used and has a name whilst the other is just on stand by
18:54:56FromDiscord<nervecenter> Sort of? I guess?
18:58:37FromDiscord<arathanis> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=4AZb
19:00:54FromDiscord<nervecenter> So here `getIpifyUrl()` uses the concept of `result`, which is always a mutable variable of the default type of the return value of a proc, in this case the empty string `""`. But Arathanis just assigns it manually. If there is a `result`, that's what a proc returns unless there is some other explicit `return` statement.
19:02:41FromDiscord<eliot> but what was the purpose of creating an InternetProtocol type? wouldn't a string do the same thing?
19:02:55FromDiscord<eliot> or is it just for readability
19:03:29FromDiscord<nervecenter> A string can have many values, that enum has only 2, and it's much faster behind the scenes. The `case` checks all possible values, we don't need an `else` because we covered both possibilities
19:03:39FromDiscord<nervecenter> Enums greatly help reduce the possible states of your code
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19:06:32FromDiscord<eliot> ooh ok thanks for the help
19:08:22FromDiscord<eliot> i think im starting to understand some concepts
19:09:08FromDiscord<huantian> sent a code paste, see https://paste.rs/Iy9A4
19:10:44FromDiscord<huantian> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=4AZl
19:11:12FromDiscord<eliot> im actually using the puppy library
19:12:18FromDiscord<spatchler> In reply to @spatchler "Can anyone help me": is that a no?
19:12:37FromDiscord<huantian> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=4AZm
19:12:49FromDiscord<huantian> In reply to @spatchler "is that a no?": i can't speak for anyone else but I can't at least haha
19:13:10FromDiscord<huantian> you might have more luck in #appdev or #gamedev
19:15:49FromDiscord<huantian> also note that the ipv6 endpoint actually can return both ipv6 and ipv4
19:17:01FromDiscord<eliot> i do have a question tho, in earlier examples no one ever added `= true` to useIpv6, is there a reason?
19:17:41FromDiscord<huantian> oh that's just what I would do
19:17:56FromDiscord<huantian> since I'd assume that you normally would want to use the universal endpoint so I just set it as the default
19:18:14FromDiscord<huantian> but that's up to you, depends on what you expect from the proc and which one you use more
19:19:43FromDiscord<eliot> so if you set a bool in a proc to true or false and you use it you wouldn't need to explicitly write true or false?
19:20:03FromDiscord<eliot> so like getIp() would be the same as getIp(true)
19:20:21FromDiscord<huantian> yes
19:20:58FromDiscord<huantian> from the manual https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/371759389889003532/1131304694493479043/image.png
19:21:49FromDiscord<eliot> oooh ok
19:23:43FromDiscord<eliot> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=4AZq
19:24:29FromDiscord<huantian> your sendRequest proc seems to be the same as `fetch()`?
19:24:36FromDiscord<huantian> idk about puppy api
19:25:38FromDiscord<eliot> it is the same but it seems to get response codes i'd need to use get
19:26:17FromDiscord<eliot> https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/371759389889003532/1131306031008465036/image.png
19:26:36FromDiscord<huantian> but you aren't using the response code in your function
19:27:17FromDiscord<eliot> yeah i was going to implement it after
19:28:07FromDiscord<huantian> `fetch` will also raise an exception if you don't get 200 repsonse code so I suppose if you want different behavior
19:28:38FromDiscord<huantian> btw I still think the json is unnecessary haha
19:29:39FromDiscord<eliot> In reply to @huantian "btw I still think": im just trying to do what the other libraries are
19:30:41FromDiscord<eliot> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=4AZv
19:30:51FromDiscord<huantian> `!= 200`
19:31:03FromDiscord<eliot> oooh
19:31:05FromDiscord<huantian> In reply to @eliot "im just trying to": not all libraries implement it, I don't think the python one does
19:31:29FromDiscord<huantian> since it's not useful for use in Nim
19:31:40FromDiscord<huantian> there's no reason why you'd want your ip formatted in a json object you'd need to parse anyway
19:32:49FromDiscord<huantian> In reply to @huantian "`fetch` will also raise": <https://github.com/treeform/puppy/blob/master/src/puppy.nim#L103> source code
19:33:20FromDiscord<eliot> i suppose but i feel like its there if you are in a peculiar situation
19:33:38FromDiscord<huantian> in that case, i think it's better if the user constructs the json themselv'es
19:33:41FromDiscord<huantian> (edit) "themselv'es" => "themselves"
19:34:32FromDiscord<eliot> wouldn't just making useJson false by default just be easier, it's not like theyre obliged to use it
19:35:01FromDiscord<huantian> right but it also provides (a small amount) of extra burden for you to support it
19:35:38FromDiscord<huantian> (it's your code in the end you can ignore my preferences hehe)
19:36:30FromDiscord<eliot> but the burden is put on the api not me right? if they do remove the format then its no longer a part of the official api so it doesn't belong in it
19:36:51FromDiscord<huantian> right but it's still extra code and moving parts in your proc
19:37:08FromDiscord<huantian> and an extra parameter, even if it's default
19:37:25FromDiscord<eliot> i suppose ill just comment it out in that case
19:37:33FromDiscord<huantian> (edit) "hehe)" => "hehe)↵(personally I'd even go more overkill and have the code return both ipv6 and ipv4 lol)"
19:39:31FromDiscord<eliot> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=4AZz
19:43:13FromDiscord<spatchler> can no one help me?
19:49:25FromDiscord<huantian> In reply to @huantian "you might have more":
19:50:03FromDiscord<huantian> once again I cannot help you myself, and if nobody responds in a reasonable time it's safe to assume nobody is online with that knowledge
19:51:53FromDiscord<spatchler> In reply to @huantian "** **": ahh thanks, i dont know how i missed your message
19:51:57FromDiscord<huantian> all good
19:52:20FromDiscord<huantian> yeah I don't dabble in that subject myself so I can't help directly, but I think like #gamedev has more opengl related discussion
19:53:20FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> What's your code
19:53:22FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Huan in the wrong sect of development
19:53:26FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Gamedev is the only good sect
19:53:52FromDiscord<huantian> hey I do some gamedev
19:54:00FromDiscord<huantian> just no low level graphics stuff
19:54:14FromDiscord<huantian> I just drag around random things in unity and hope that unity doesn't delete my computer
19:54:26FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> lol
19:54:58FromDiscord<huantian> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=4AZB
19:55:04FromDiscord<huantian> the problem is I can't test with ipv6 only or ipv4 only connections
19:55:08FromDiscord<huantian> because I'm lazy
19:56:28FromDiscord<huantian> (edit) "https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=4AZB" => "https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=4AZD"
19:56:40FromDiscord<huantian> (edit) "https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=4AZD" => "https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=4AZE"
20:06:17FromDiscord<arathanis> In reply to @huantian "I'd go with something": I dig it, I just really like enums, i love the readability of it
20:06:31FromDiscord<huantian> true true
20:06:35FromDiscord<huantian> enums are cool
20:07:32FromDiscord<arathanis> too much trauma of people using string constants over enums
20:07:37FromDiscord<huantian> oh there's a ipv6 only url https://api6.ipify.org/
20:07:39FromDiscord<arathanis> and now figuring out all the options makes me want to die
20:07:50FromDiscord<huantian> In reply to @arathanis "too much trauma of": yeah why would you use string constants
20:08:21FromDiscord<arathanis> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=4AZJ
20:08:29FromDiscord<arathanis> but that is exactly what enums were supposed to capture lol
20:08:40FromDiscord<arathanis> but at least you can see all of them
20:10:16FromDiscord<huantian> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=4AZL
20:18:38FromDiscord<arathanis> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=4AZO
20:19:04FromDiscord<arathanis> result: `@["172.67.132.242", "104.21.5.42", "2606:4700:3031::6815:52a", "2606:4700:3034::ac43:84f2"]`
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20:53:07FromDiscord<bostonboston> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=4AZT
20:53:35FromDiscord<bostonboston> (edit) "https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=4AZT" => "https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=4AZU"
20:56:04FromDiscord<demotomohiro> 'Requested command not found' means gcc.exe is not found?
20:57:53FromDiscord<bostonboston> My gcc.path points to the correct location in my nim.cfg file
21:02:14FromDiscord<bostonboston> Okay nvm is was a problem, but now my question is why does gcc.path = [the correct path] ship commented out
21:02:26FromDiscord<bostonboston> (edit) "Okay nvm is was a ... problem," added "nim.cfg"
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21:52:27FromDiscord<patitotective> I want to rename a key from an `OrderedTable` inserting the new key and then deleting the old key, the problem is that I want to keep the new key in the same index as old key↵From what I've seen it doesn't seem possible so should I go ahead and write my own `seq[tuple[key: A, val: B]]` procedures?
22:00:55FromDiscord<mohamed> is it possible to make nim output everything to one c file ??
22:03:17FromDiscord<patitotective> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=4B0c
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22:05:44FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> No it's not mohamed
22:08:41FromDiscord<graveflo> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=4B0d
22:30:51FromDiscord<nixfreak> Does nimScript not support stdin using readLine?
22:33:46FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Nope
22:34:09FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> https://nim-lang.org/docs/nimscript.html#readLineFromStdin
22:37:57FromDiscord<nixfreak> Ok thanks
22:39:49FromDiscord<nixfreak> Ok so readLinefromstdin with nimScript
22:42:44FromDiscord<mohamed> I cant get nim to compile for android because it expects clang.exe but I have clang.bat in the ndk
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23:23:15FromDiscord<michaelb.eth> In reply to @mohamed "I cant get nim": can you view the source of clang.bat and see where/how it invokes clang.exe?
23:26:55FromDiscord<mohamed> since ndk comes with a bunch of .bat files each for an api version the all basically call the base clang.exe with --target=target_name