<<19-12-2012>>

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04:56:53ZorAraq: the only special case is passing null which means "get handle to main executable"
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15:42:57*gour wonders what is the impact for of "FFI support at compile time " for nimrod end users
15:50:22gours/for of/of
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16:05:08dom96gour: well for me it means that there will finally be a proper REPL.
16:14:06gourdom96: how?
16:16:33gourwhen one uses external C libs, like e.g. gtk?
16:17:03gouri haven't consider to use nimrod's interpreter feature...
16:17:09dom96FFI support at compile-time will allow you to use such libs.
16:20:05gournow i got it
16:20:44gourremember playing with ghci in the past...
16:23:32*gour notices qt5 released
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20:27:17gradhaI had an old tetris clone implemented in C+liballeg4, but it seems liballeg4 doesn't work on macosx any more and liballeg5 breaks badly backwards compatibility (eg. no more gui menus)
20:27:37gradhaso since I'm going to rewrite it anyway, and the logic of a tetris is not that much, do you recommend any nimrod lib?
20:28:39Araqhm
20:28:47Araqsdl?
20:29:01dom96sfml
20:29:17dom96or maybe try Vladar's nimgame library
20:36:25gradhaso I guess it's time to get babel to avoid getting in nimgame's dependency hell
20:38:14gradhayay: $ ./babel
20:38:14gradhacould not load: libssl.so(|.1.0.0|.0.9.9|.0.9.8|.0.9.7|.0.9.6|.0.9.5|.0.9.4)
20:38:33gradhathat's it, I'm going to write it in basic
20:38:52gradhagwbasic, and run it in a dos emulator, on freedos, in a vm
20:39:49Araqyou could also fix it the dll path
20:40:25Araqor compile babel without SSL support if that makes any sense
20:42:10dom96it does not :P
20:42:15gradhawant a github bug for http://pastebin.com/xx6HhDXN ?
20:42:46AraqI'd prefer a fix
20:43:01gradhaah, Error: unhandled exception: Sorry, you cannot use recvLine on an unbuffered SSL socket
20:43:09gradhabut if I use buffered sockets, they don't work on macosx
20:43:20AraqI'm sure macosx has openSSL in some awesome dylib
20:43:38gradhathe pastebin works for me, the else picks the dylib
20:43:51Araqoh alright
20:45:46Araqno need for a ticket :P
20:46:10gradhathis irc command thing is amazing, it should do taxes too
20:49:14*gour is 1st nimrod user (according to ohloh.net) ;-)
20:50:04Araqthat's good; do you in fact really *use* it, gour? ;-)
20:51:16gourAraq: for now, i was reading about its features and tried some of FFI tools (c2nim), and will do more, but not feel well in last days and/or busy with other non-computer-related stuff
20:52:21gourwonder about taht hight peek of code lines july-2010-march-2011?
20:53:17gour*high
20:55:16Araqohloh is stupid
20:55:21Araqthat's why
20:55:33Araq"written in C" ... er ... no?
20:56:07gradhamaybe you should rename nimrod to NotWrittenInCRod
20:58:16AraqI could also truncate history
20:58:47Araqpeople don't like the csources.zip files in git anyway
20:59:13Araqbut then I've been told that will break all forks
20:59:25gouri can only imagine what stats i'd get by adding nimrod project kept under fossil VCS :-)
20:59:40gradhayes, rewriting history on a forked repo is a nice recipe for hate
21:00:05gourgradha: use fossil which does not have, by design, rebase ;)
21:00:40gradhawithout rebase everybody would see my endless silly commit mistakes
21:01:11gourgradha: no, you e.g. use private branches and then commit when 'ready'
21:02:03gourwith other DVCS-es, you can use MQ etc.
21:02:14gradhathat's the problem: it keeps you away from commiting, so you lose on source control
21:02:41gourwhy? MQ patches are also stored under vcs
21:03:01gradhadon't know what MQ patches are
21:03:36gourhttp://mercurial.selenic.com/wiki/MqExtension
21:04:23gourbazzar has looms or something similar...like fossil's private branches
21:04:45gouriow, rebase is not required to have 'tidy/clean' history
21:05:18gradhaok, so fossil doesn't have public rebase, but has private rebase
21:05:48gourno, it's not rebase..rebase loses history
21:06:00gradhahow?
21:09:45gourgradha: read this http://www.fossil-scm.org/xfer/doc/trunk/www/fossil-v-git.wiki
21:10:46gourand as you wrote, there are enough horror stories around about havoc created by rebase
21:16:04gradhaso fossil/mercurial are more pedantic with regards to history tracking but then accept it sucks and provide extensions to go around that, seems sensible
21:16:47gradhaI love the seventh point, whenever I've had a serious power outage+crash the whole fs died, so not sure what advantage there is from one format to another
21:20:45gradhadom96: do you have any nimgame or sfml examples to get started? With nimgame I have the "there are too many files and I don't know which should I start with" problem
21:21:54dom96gradha: Vladar might be able to help you with nimgame, if he's here. Also there is a demo here: http://forum.nimrod-code.org/t/47
21:22:22dom96as for sfml, https://github.com/fowlmouth/nimrod-sfml/blob/master/examples/particles.nim
21:23:43gradhathanks, the sfml example looks good enough
21:24:12gourgradha: after trying and using so many DVCS-es, i settled on fossil which is the best after darcs and here are some of the reasons i pretty much agree with written by richard hipp (sqlite/fossil author): http://pastebin.com/72NCzzx1
21:24:19dom96perhaps I should push my ludum dare game
21:24:44dom96fowl: When will you submit your projects to babel?
21:24:53gradhajust read ludum dare had about 25 haxe games
21:25:03dom9625? more like 1 thousand
21:25:35gradhaI follow some guy doing periodic news, so maybe he handpicked the best?
21:27:23gradhawait, got that completely wrong http://blog.skialbainn.com/post/38314849187/haxe-roundup-128
21:27:31gradhaso it was ludum dare 25th
21:27:36gradhaand there were x haxe games
21:27:39gradhanot 25
21:27:46gradhaman, I suck at reading
21:30:05gradhagour: I'll try to use fossil at some point and see how my brain cycles go
21:30:40gourgradha: good. i hope you'll be happy
21:30:57fowldom96: i want to see it :)
21:35:39gourthe other day (or was it yesterday), Araq told me that the 'func' idea (mentioned in the manual) to have nosideeffects procedure (aka function), is dead idea...anything else like this not rm-ed from the docs'
21:35:41gour?
21:37:15Araqthe "future directions" are not cast in stone
21:37:59Araqthat's why it says "future"
21:38:13Araqfuture is uncertain :P
21:38:38gourthat's ok...docs should reflect the present :-)
21:39:36gourusually pragmas are used to test features before finding appropriate syntax...
21:39:50Araqeven the posix standard has "future directions" iirc
21:41:01dom96fowl: https://github.com/dom96/ld25
21:42:59gourAraq: that's ok, but if you know today that it won't happen, then it might be good to simply remove it from the docs
21:43:19gourno more, no less :-)
21:43:28Araqbut the "func" keyword may make many people happy :P
21:43:46Araqso if enough people vote for it, it will be done
21:43:47*gour is one of 'em :-D
21:44:06gour:-)
21:44:14fowldom96: updating nimrod and babel to try my package right now
21:44:25dom96fowl: great
21:44:59gourAraq: 'func' might create havoc amognst haskellers ;)
21:45:33Araqwe don't care about haskellers; they will never use anything else anyway :P
21:45:44dom96hey, i'm a haskeller *cough*
21:45:56dom96ok, fine. ex-haskeller.
21:46:06dom96obviously :P
21:46:36Araqlol true
21:47:37dom96I don't see a problem with 'func' though.
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21:47:44SimonMyo
21:47:54dom96hello SimonM!
21:48:00Araqhi SimonM
21:48:58SimonMI just found out about Nimrod
21:49:10*gour wonder how
21:49:16SimonMxD
21:49:23dom96forced advertisement by me :P
21:49:41SimonMsort of
21:49:49gourhmm, those modern methods work
21:49:55SimonMwell
21:50:01SimonMI heard of the language before
21:50:10SimonMbut didn't have time
21:50:14SimonMand lost it
21:50:17dom96Also I believe this is the highest amount of users we've ever had here.
21:51:41Araqdom96: sshhtt, that's sad ;-)
21:51:51SimonMlol
21:51:54SimonMdoesn't matter
21:51:59dom96no! It's a reason to celebrate!
21:52:00SimonMIt's just a chat
21:52:21SimonMI like smaller internet communities
21:53:57SimonMwell I'll be going now
21:53:58SimonMcya
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21:54:37Araqthat was quick ...
21:54:52fowldom96: how can i test the package before i submit it
21:55:03dom96babel install
21:55:06dom96in the directory of the package
21:55:20gourone when i was in #modula-2, one user there recommended me it's better (for my use case) to use ada than modula-2...when i got free advertisement from nimrod deve...err. user, i was told to use, in any case, nimrod...now we're here
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22:00:46fowldom96: do i need to pull request on packages.json?
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22:02:35dom96fowl: yeah
22:03:06gradhafowl: I'm trying to run nimrod-sfml on macosx but it seems at some point a symbol is not found and exits
22:03:40gradhaunfortunately I get no stacktrace from nimrod nor info on what dynlib failed, so I'm stuck
22:04:57Araqno stacktrace from nimrod? that's strange
22:05:36fowlgradha: are you on 2.0RC or the csfml from git
22:05:37gradhait has never done so for missing importc/dynlib on mac, should it have?
22:05:48gradhafowl: got the 2.0RC from the web
22:06:03Araqgradha: ah yeah I guess it shouldn't
22:06:21Araqbut it should tell which lib couldn't be loaded
22:06:41gradhait does, but not which line is failing or what symbol is missing
22:06:59Araqwhat does it say exactly?
22:07:12fowlgradha: im gonna branch it and backport to the RC, currently its based on CSFML from git
22:07:47fowlgradha: right now you could comment out line 1004 of csfml.nim
22:08:27gradhaAraq: could not load: libcsfml-graphics.dylib
22:08:27gradhaError: execution of an external program failed
22:08:40gradhafowl: great, have just arrived to that line commenting/uncommenting
22:08:51Araqwell there you have it
22:09:00Araqwhat else should it tell you?
22:09:18gradhawhat line is wrong?
22:09:21Araqit couldn't load the dylib, it's not that some symbol is missing
22:10:37gradhafowl: I've commented out the whole transformFromMatrix block since I made other changes and line numbers don't match
22:11:03fowlgradha: the let identityMatrix = ... line
22:12:09gradhaok, so that makes the csfml module compile and run, but jstest still fails loading the dylib
22:13:21gradhaactually, I'm missing an identityMatrix = ... line ?
22:13:51fowlgradha: its at the end of the transform functions
22:13:58fowllet IdentityMatrix*: TTransform = transformFromMatrix(
22:14:19gradhaah, cases
22:15:41gradhaAraq: with procs defined like proc getMatrix*(transform: PTransform, matrix: ptr cfloat) {.
22:15:41gradha cdecl, importc: "sfTransform_getMatrix", dynlib: LibG.}
22:15:56gradhais it possible to make dynlib say what line failed loading the importc?
22:16:25Araqit's loaded before the program starts running
22:16:37Araqso I cannot see what you like to see
22:16:40fowlgradha: usually it says which symbol failed importing
22:16:47gradhait doesn't, that's the problem
22:17:06Araqit can't import the dylib itself
22:17:20Araqso it doesn't matter which symbol triggered it
22:17:41Araqbut you can edit lib/system/dyncalls.nim
22:17:54Araqif that's of any help
22:18:37gradhamaybe the fsml binaries have done something like the libiconv people and prefixed everything?
22:18:53gradhaah, no, you say it doesn't load at all
22:37:13gradhawhat are the reasons a library could fail loading? I'm testing now manually with dynlib.LoadLib and it returns nil for the specific full path of the library file
22:38:34Araqthat usually means that the dylib hasn't been built properly by GCC
22:38:39Araqsounds strange I know
22:38:52Araqbut I couldn't find any other explanation
22:39:01Araqhad that problem often too
22:41:24gradhalooks like it's a build switch or something, I compiled the libraries myself now and still don't work
22:41:34Araqmaybe you built a 32bit version and try to load it from a 64bit binary
22:41:46gradhaor could it be they depend on something else I might not have installed?
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22:55:25Araqgood night
22:55:46gradhabye
22:55:47fowlconfig/nimrod.cfg(36, 11) Hint: added path: '/home/fowl/.babel/libs/' [Path]
22:56:00fowli dont have ~/.babel/libs
22:56:06fowli have ~/.babel/lib though
22:56:51dom96it should be ~/babel/libs
22:59:43dom96Will be changed to a hidden dir though
23:02:41NimBot_nimrod-code/packages 00407fe Billingsly Wetherfordshire [+0 ±1 -0]: added sfml to packages.json
23:02:41NimBot_nimrod-code/packages 5042363 Dominik Picheta [+0 ±1 -0]: Merge pull request #4 from fowlmouth/patch-1... 3 more lines
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23:06:20dom96fowl: thanks for adding it
23:06:33dom96I like how every package is MIT licensed :P
23:30:55fowli dunno how to run your game
23:31:00fowlhow do i tell it where to find sfml
23:33:14dom96--path:/path/where/nimgame/dir/is
23:33:20dom96it imports "nimgame/csfml"
23:33:42dom96so you can either do that, or place the nimgame directory in with my game
23:33:52dom96Anyway, I need to go to sleep
23:33:59dom96bye
23:38:42fowlnight