| 00:09:28 | Araq | good night |
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| 02:24:05 | flaviu | Can someone tag https://github.com/Araq/Nimrod/issues/1386 as RFC? |
| 02:28:49 | Varriount | flaviu: Your wish is my command. |
| 02:29:05 | Varriount | Hi vendethiel |
| 02:29:08 | flaviu | Thanks |
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| 02:52:25 | goobles | nimroooood |
| 03:00:05 | * | Varriount gobbles up goobles greedily |
| 03:02:33 | goobles | is there any good docs on nimrods memory model/gc |
| 03:04:11 | flaviu | goobles: Not much, but http://nimrod-lang.org/gc.html |
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| 04:23:40 | goobles | is nimrod going for a global GC for entire program or seperate gc per task/thread? |
| 04:30:24 | Demos | per thread gc |
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| 05:53:18 | adoniscik | how can you get the base type of a sequence or array? type() returns array |
| 05:53:26 | adoniscik | I want the type of its elements |
| 05:54:31 | adoniscik | I guess I could use type(foo.low) |
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| 06:43:03 | fowl | type(foo[0]) |
| 07:00:50 | vendethiel | hi Varriount (?) |
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| 09:58:53 | Mat3 | hello |
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| 10:42:37 | dom96 | hi |
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| 13:14:48 | dom96 | hello Kos_, welcome. |
| 13:23:57 | Kos_ | Hello |
| 13:24:16 | Kos_ | I'm attempting to install Aporia on Windows |
| 13:24:45 | Kos_ | Is it meaningful option at all ? |
| 13:25:06 | Kos_ | Or it will go much smoother on Linux ? |
| 13:26:24 | Kos_ | Thanks in advance |
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| 13:27:04 | dom96 | Kos_: Should be much easier on Linux. |
| 13:27:46 | Kos_ | as usual with ported software. |
| 13:28:57 | dom96 | You can try this on Windows: http://nimrod-lang.org/download/aporia-0.2.0.zip |
| 13:29:08 | dom96 | It's missing pcre.dll though |
| 13:29:13 | dom96 | I still need to fix that |
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| 13:37:41 | Kos_ | thank you |
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| 13:53:04 | Kos_ | dom96 : Is that package with Aporia 32bit or 64bit ? |
| 13:53:13 | dom96 | 32 |
| 13:53:27 | Kos_ | Do you have 64 bit one ? |
| 13:54:08 | Kos_ | I can download 32bit nimrod actually |
| 13:55:27 | dom96 | You don't need 32 bit nimrod to use 32 bit Aporia |
| 13:55:42 | dom96 | But I suggest you use 32 bit nimrod anyway |
| 13:56:46 | Kos_ | Now it works, thanks |
| 13:59:39 | Kos_ | I needed 32 bit pcre.dll |
| 14:01:25 | Kos_ | Aporia started but fails to access nimrod.exe even started with administrator privilagies. Will better test it with Linux |
| 14:01:40 | dom96 | you need it in your PATH |
| 14:10:16 | Kos_ | BTW it was already there |
| 14:10:26 | Kos_ | it was installed using installer from site |
| 14:10:48 | Kos_ | thank you for answers |
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| 14:11:57 | NimBot | Araq/Nimrod devel be616fc Dominik Picheta [+0 ±1 -0]: Fixes #1219. |
| 14:11:57 | NimBot | Araq/Nimrod devel 8968b51 Dominik Picheta [+0 ±3 -0]: Fixes #1065. |
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| 20:25:29 | Araq | ping def- |
| 20:25:34 | def- | hi Araq |
| 20:25:44 | Araq | wow that was quick |
| 20:25:59 | Araq | we need a link to your slides |
| 20:26:14 | def- | for? |
| 20:26:17 | dom96 | wikipedia |
| 20:27:10 | def- | Best I have is this: https://entropia.de/GPN14:Nimrod |
| 20:27:23 | Araq | is that a permanent link? |
| 20:27:41 | Araq | not that it matters much ... other wikipedia articles are full of dead links |
| 20:27:53 | def- | Apparently so |
| 20:28:01 | def- | The ones from the last years are still around at least |
| 20:28:44 | Araq | well we can host it ourselves and then it's a primary reference again and wikipedia doesn't accept us |
| 20:30:24 | Araq | there is a point where following mechanical rules produces undesired results and you have to use your brain. Too bad the guys writing an online encyclopaedia don't know this. |
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| 20:35:03 | dom96 | We'll have a source in Bulgarian and German :D |
| 20:35:54 | flaviu | How about nimrod-by-example? Its a secondary source, and it looks more reputable than a random blog post |
| 20:37:13 | dom96 | flaviu: already added |
| 20:37:28 | dom96 | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Nimrod_%28programming_language%29 |
| 20:38:11 | dom96 | I think i'm done |
| 20:38:31 | dom96 | def-: Is there a video for your talk? |
| 20:39:48 | def- | dom96: yes, but i wanted to wait until it's on youtube. seems to take them a bit longer this year |
| 20:40:07 | dom96 | def-: np |
| 20:40:36 | def- | It's in the big list at https://entropia.de/GPN14:Streams |
| 20:42:39 | dom96 | I really wish I could understand German lol |
| 20:43:44 | flaviu | dom96: Its easy! "nien" means "me" |
| 20:43:57 | flaviu | Or no |
| 20:44:02 | flaviu | or lines, IDK :P |
| 20:44:26 | def- | I would have held the talk in English |
| 20:44:32 | def- | but most talks seemed to be in German |
| 20:45:14 | dom96 | I have an excuse to learn German at least |
| 20:45:30 | dom96 | I really like your slides though, very nice job. |
| 20:45:43 | def- | Thanks, dom96 |
| 20:46:01 | flaviu | dom96: his slides are made with LaTeX :D |
| 20:48:26 | Matthias247 | as long as it's not in schwäbisch ;) |
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| 20:50:28 | dom96 | yay https://github.com/glfw/website/compare/56c919d77e03...29516872cb86 |
| 20:52:19 | dom96 | def-: I'm curious about the questions you got, can you translate some of them for me? |
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| 20:52:47 | def- | dom96: I think I did that before, let me search irc log |
| 20:53:10 | def- | http://build.nimrod-lang.org/irclogs/14-07-2014.html |
| 20:53:43 | dom96 | oh thanks |
| 20:56:02 | Matthias247 | don't know what's so funny about the generated C code :) |
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| 21:03:10 | Mat3 | hello |
| 21:03:19 | def- | hi Mat3 and Fx00F |
| 21:03:26 | Mat3 | hi def- |
| 21:04:15 | Mat3 | I have the following problem: |
| 21:04:27 | Fx00F | hi |
| 21:05:37 | Fx00F | var u:auto = 5 <--- internal error |
| 21:05:39 | Mat3 | in one module an exported string: var tIlOpcode* = array [tIlOpcodeLen, uInt8] is defined |
| 21:06:23 | def- | Fx00F: if you want an auto type just write "var u = 5" |
| 21:07:11 | Mat3 | in another module the global string is used as parameter for a procedure: poke[uInt8] (o, o.iCode, aIlOpcode[i] |
| 21:07:14 | dom96 | Fx00F: report that on github please |
| 21:07:23 | Mat3 | +) = |
| 21:08:00 | Fx00F | dom96: hmm |
| 21:08:35 | Jehan_ | Fx00F: auto is used for implicit generics, should probably result in an error when used with `var`. |
| 21:09:18 | Mat3 | then compilation fails with error message: Error: conversion from seq[uint8] to uint8 is invalid |
| 21:09:57 | Mat3 | I doubt this to be incorrect as long as arrays are handled differently from sequences |
| 21:10:12 | def- | Mat3: i don't see where you're using a seq |
| 21:11:08 | Jehan_ | Mat3: Not sure about the context. What is "the global string", what are o.iCode, and allOpcode[i]? |
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| 21:11:37 | Mat3 | aIlOpcode is of type string |
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| 21:12:12 | Mat3 | o.iCode is an index into a buffer for generated native code |
| 21:13:07 | Jehan_ | Mat3: What I'm trying to say is that there's too little information to analyze the error message. |
| 21:13:08 | Mat3 | sorry I mean aIlOpcode is of type array[0..cNatCodeLen, uInt8] |
| 21:14:33 | Jehan_ | What's the exact type signature of poke, what's the exact location of the error? |
| 21:14:55 | Mat3 | the porblem is simply that an array element is accessed as parameter and the compiler return a error message showing that this element is of type: seq[uint8] |
| 21:15:17 | Mat3 | instead of uInt8 |
| 21:15:27 | Jehan_ | Are you sure that it's that? |
| 21:15:35 | Mat3 | yes |
| 21:16:01 | Mat3 | var tIlOpcode* = array [tIlOpcodeLen, uInt8] |
| 21:16:19 | Jehan_ | Even so, there's little anyone can do (including identifying a compiler bug) without a way to reproduce or at least understand the circumstances. |
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| 21:17:56 | Jehan_ | If I try to pass an element of array[0..something,uint8] to a proc expecting a uint8 parameter, it works. |
| 21:18:04 | Jehan_ | So, clearly there's something else going on. |
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| 21:18:12 | flaviu | Jehan_: I've heard that you're familiar with hashing, do you think I should expose the hash construction as an API, or do it like std::hash? |
| 21:18:37 | Jehan_ | flaviu: Umm, what's the context for that question? What hash construction? |
| 21:18:56 | flaviu | https://github.com/Araq/Nimrod/issues/1386 |
| 21:19:06 | Mat3 | Jehan_: yes of course |
| 21:20:08 | flaviu | Basically, the hashes API isn't as general as it needs to be to accommodate all/most hash functions |
| 21:22:10 | Jehan_ | flaviu: I take it that's for hash functions that have to store extraneous intermediate data aside from the hash result? |
| 21:22:51 | flaviu | Yes, exactly. |
| 21:23:38 | flaviu | Like siphash is internally int256, but outputs a int64 value |
| 21:25:44 | Jehan_ | I don't see why you wouldn't expose the API, to be honest. |
| 21:26:01 | Jehan_ | What I'd be more concerned about is that you're unlikely to cover all use cases. |
| 21:28:31 | Jehan_ | Hashing of data structures represented as trees or DAGs may be concerned about, say, having a hash function that's commutative (i.e. where you need hash(Tree(a, b)) == hash(Tree(b, a))) or can be cached inside individual nodes. |
| 21:30:30 | Jehan_ | Or, for example, make sure that Tree(a, Tree(b,c)) is unlikely to hash to the same thing as Tree(Tree(a,b),c), which is what you can easily get by accident if you do a left-to-right linearization. |
| 21:30:42 | flaviu | The main issue I see with that API is 32 `int` size. Some hash functions need 64bit inputs, others 32 bit. |
| 21:30:56 | flaviu | s/32 `// |
| 21:31:25 | flaviu | Hash functions that need 64 bit input on 32 bit archetuctures will have to do buffering |
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| 21:35:17 | Jehan_ | Well, the easy way to do it portably is to use int64 and strip it down to int size on 32-bit architectures at the end. |
| 21:35:23 | Jehan_ | Of course, portable != fast. |
| 21:36:31 | Jehan_ | The alternative is to have two different implementations, one for 32-bit and one for 64-bit systems. |
| 21:39:15 | Araq | Mat3: var tIlOpcode* = array [tIlOpcodeLen, uInt8] # problem right here |
| 21:39:33 | Araq | var tIlOpcode*: array [tIlOpcodeLen, uInt8] # fix |
| 21:39:48 | Araq | and yes, I'll get rid of this behaviour |
| 21:39:49 | Mat3 | hello Araq, thanks |
| 21:41:03 | flaviu | I could make it a int64 and then make the proc inline. That way the optimizer can take care of it maybe even make it a no-op. Two implementations is too much complexity I think. |
| 21:41:30 | Araq | what's your problem with hash implementations? |
| 21:41:45 | flaviu | It can't be swapped out for any other hash implmentation |
| 21:41:47 | Araq | doesn't hashes.nim teach you of how to design it? ;-) |
| 21:42:09 | flaviu | hashes.nim is incomplete |
| 21:42:24 | Araq | and yet it teaches you great design ;-) |
| 21:42:29 | flaviu | But, yes, I'm basing it on the design of hashes.nim, its very close to what is needed |
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| 21:42:43 | Araq | it's a very simple problem you have here |
| 21:43:04 | Araq | you can either allow for runtime dispatching and then everybody pays the price always and the bloat |
| 21:43:24 | flaviu | I'm making sure everything can be inlined |
| 21:43:32 | Araq | or you simply keep the interfaces the same and let the programmer pick a particular implementation with import |
| 21:43:46 | flaviu | Thats exactly what I'm doing. |
| 21:43:50 | Araq | great |
| 21:44:16 | flaviu | I envision hashes.nim being nothing more than `when arch64: include thisHash else: include otherHash` |
| 21:44:34 | Araq | envision a new module name please |
| 21:45:05 | flaviu | sure, but why? |
| 21:45:23 | Araq | because lots of code depends on hashes.nim already |
| 21:45:50 | Araq | and getting version 1 out is MUCH more important than constant bike shedding |
| 21:46:11 | flaviu | I'm actually hitting across a real problem where hashes.nim's api is inadequate |
| 21:47:28 | Mat3 | Araq: ok, next problem |
| 21:47:43 | Mat3 | the code: |
| 21:47:44 | Mat3 | for i in countup (0, len): |
| 21:47:44 | Mat3 | poke[uInt8] (o, o.iCode, aIlOpcode[i]) |
| 21:48:10 | Mat3 | gives me: Error: for a 'var' type a variable needs to be passed |
| 21:48:40 | Jehan_ | flaviu: You can simply import your own implementation to substitute it? |
| 21:49:27 | flaviu | Yes, I can |
| 21:49:43 | flaviu | Thats what I'll end up doing anyway |
| 21:52:02 | Mat3 | defination of poke is: |
| 21:52:11 | Mat3 | proc poke[T] (o: var tAvmCompiler, ofs: int, v: T) = |
| 21:52:11 | Mat3 | if ofs > cSaiwaAvmCode - cSaiwaRedZone: saiwaError (33) |
| 21:52:11 | Mat3 | cast[ptr array[0..cSaiwaAvmCode, T]](o.pCode)[ofs] = v |
| 21:54:03 | Araq | Mat3: well 'o' might not be modifyable |
| 21:57:55 | Mat3 | its an object |
| 21:58:24 | def- | Mat3: maybe you wrote "let o = ..." instead of "var o = ..." |
| 21:58:25 | Araq | proc foo(o: tAvmCompiler) # o must not be modified |
| 21:58:36 | Araq | const o = ... # o must not be modified |
| 21:58:45 | Araq | let o = ... # o must not be modified |
| 22:00:51 | Mat3 | thanks, get the error |
| 22:02:05 | Mat3 | (forgot a 'var' in the parameter list of the callee) |
| 22:10:42 | Mat3 | ciao |
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| 22:52:04 | NimBot | nimrod-code/packages master b285d01 Johz [+0 ±1 -0]: Add appdirs to package.json |
| 22:52:04 | NimBot | nimrod-code/packages master 96c2f4b Johz [+0 ±1 -0]: Wrong Github... |
| 22:52:04 | NimBot | nimrod-code/packages master 8fb7187 Dominik Picheta [+0 ±1 -0]: Merge pull request #71 from MrJohz/patch-1... 2 more lines |
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