<< 20-11-2013 >>

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00:41:10OrionPKha, sorry bout that.. forgot to change my cfg back
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11:10:34BitPuffingood *
11:10:36BitPuffinfolks
11:11:02BitPuffinAraq: watcha gonna do now eh?
11:11:52fowlhi
11:12:21BitPuffinhey fowl
11:15:00fowlBitPuffin, i'm rewriting this in nimrod https://github.com/fowlmouth/readable-cpp
11:16:47BitPuffin"Studies have shown that reading type declarations in C can cause dizziness, drymouth, nausea, diabetes, ocular warts and constipation and may be linked to low sperm count"
11:16:49BitPuffinlol
11:17:21fowlthats true
11:17:31fowlits the basis of my thesis
11:17:40fowlwhen i get to the point where i need to write a thesis
11:18:16BitPuffinfowl: how is that gonna be written in nimrod?
11:18:26BitPuffinah
11:18:31BitPuffinit's a translator?
11:18:43fowlyea
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11:30:50BitPuffinfowl: but why would you want to make c++ bareable :P
11:31:06fowlBitPuffin, because it pisses off people who love c++ :)
11:31:31fowlthey hate change more than republicans
11:31:37BitPuffinfowl: lol :D
11:34:04fowlwhat i have so far https://gist.github.com/fowlmouth/57405bf26ed8c1b4e357
11:35:03BitPuffinhmm, doesn't seam like portaudio has that much more than libao
11:35:08BitPuffinjust that it handles stream
11:35:11BitPuffins
11:35:27fowlis there alrady a libao wrapper
11:35:37BitPuffinfowl: hehe
11:35:39BitPuffinyeah
11:35:41BitPuffinthere is
11:35:50BitPuffinnim-ao
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14:14:35BitPuffinHeh! Cool, UnigineScript shares a property that nimrod has
14:14:42BitPuffinand that is that they got rid of protected :P
14:21:05BitPuffinor hmm
14:21:07BitPuffinprivate means that such member is accessible from within other members of the same class and members of the inherited classes.
14:21:18BitPuffinguess that makes it protected?
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15:26:18dom96yo
15:35:42BitPuffinhey dom96
15:45:13dom96hey BitPuffin, what's up?
15:46:01BitPuffindom96: learning how to script in Unigine, you?
15:53:58dom96eating :P
15:54:20BitPuffindom96: nice, what are you eating?
15:54:44dom96panini
16:01:13BitPuffindom96: fuck that would be nice to eat :D
16:02:08dom96yep, it was lol
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16:37:42Mat2hi all
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16:39:23BitPuffinyo Mat2-coding
16:40:56Mat2-codinghi BitPuffin
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16:46:51dom96This article per week thing isn't working out very well
16:47:55Mat2-codinghi dom96
16:48:04dom96hi Mat2-coding
16:48:16BitPuffindom96: no, my blog isn't done yet :P
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16:56:13BitPuffindom96: and I'm not quite sure I'm gonna finish it before I finish this project
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16:57:04BitPuffindom96: I'll probably just finish the parts I need to get paid, and then write my company website (possibly in the nimrod pro-programming language :D) and write a game that I want to release in december
16:57:51BitPuffinanyways gotta go!
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18:34:12Araqhi yogin welcome (if you're new lol)
18:34:29Araqhi Mat2-coding how's coding?
18:35:07VarriountGood morning Araq.
18:35:19Araqgood evening, Varriount
18:35:32dom96Araq: Is there an offsetof?
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18:40:35Araqdom96: no but you can use the same hack as in C, I hope
18:42:20VarriountSo Araq, does this new VM use bytecode?
18:42:40dom96Anyone have any experience with opengl/glfw?
18:43:03p0nceopengl here
18:43:10p0ncebut no glfw
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18:43:54VarriountI have theoretical knowledge, but no practical knowledge. I've always used frameworks
18:44:22dom96Well I must admit I am too lazy to read anything about it. I'm porting some opengl/glfw C code to Nimrod and my program crashes on a call to glEnable()
18:44:31Araqtemplate offsetof(typ, field): expr = (var dummy: typ; cast[int](addr(dummy.field)) - cast[int](addr(dummy))
18:44:36Araqor something like that
18:44:52p0ncedom96: some code perhaps?
18:44:59dom96Perhaps I am not initialising something.
18:45:27Araqcalled loadExtensions?
18:45:49dom96nope.
18:45:49Araqeverybody needs it, nobody thinks of it ...
18:45:54dom96Where is it?
18:46:10Araq## You need to call ``loadExtensions`` after a rendering context has been
18:46:11Araq## created to load any extension proc that your code uses.
18:46:20Araqit's in opengl.nim
18:46:37dom96I don't see any proc called 'loadExtensions' in opengl.nim
18:46:56Araqwell it's a template
18:47:08dom96It's not in the docs
18:47:41Araqhmm I guess the docgen assumes 'useGlew' is defined and then it's not there. gah.
18:48:40AraqVarriount: yes or rather "word"-code where word is 32 bits
18:50:35dom96Araq: Yeah, that fixed it.
18:52:21Araqthe problem is that opengl.nim can't call loadExtensions for you due to technical reasons ...
18:52:37Araqso everybody falls into that trap
18:53:06Araqbut we can switch declaration order so that it's in the docs at least
18:55:49AraqVarriount: using bytes instead of words for a fast interpreter is stupid for lots of reasons; I will blog about it some day ...
18:56:10AraqMat2-coding is free to disagree of course ;-)
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18:56:27OrionPKsomeone's in a good mood today
19:02:53VarriountIs there any circumstance where "genericObj[void](...)" should/would make sense?
19:05:20Mat2-codinghi Araq
19:05:23OrionPKif the T was the return type of a proc?
19:05:56VarriountOrionPK, but I'm talking about a generic *object*
19:06:10OrionPKright, but the object could contain a pointer to a proc
19:06:18VarriountAh.
19:06:22VarriountHm.
19:06:57VarriountI'm investigating how to best fix issue 633 (or at least how to dig up some more information)
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19:07:17Mat2-codingVarriount: What do you mean with bytecode ? (I suggest some kind of JVM like open-encoding)
19:08:00VarriountMat2-coding, most vm's use an analogue to machine-code to represent instructions/actions
19:08:33VarriountIn retrospect, it was a silly question to ask.
19:14:36AraqVarriount: there are no silly questions, only silly answers. *g
19:15:44Mat2-codinghm, in this terminology: Most VM designs I know use some kind of CISC encoding, the Lua VM is a canonical RISC design. Efficient interpreters are microcoding engines - you have the choice
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19:36:53Mat2-codingAraq: My vm uses a packed word of instructions (like VLIW), no byte access involved ;)
19:37:16VarriountMat2-coding, what vm would this be?
19:37:40Araqah yeah, now I remember ;-)
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19:42:33Mat2-codingVarriount: Packed opcode encoding (up to 16 instructions) + variable immediate fields, at runtime modificable MISC ISA, packed execution (static super-instructions), dual-stack design, software pipelining
19:45:38Araqin other words, Mat2-coding is our Chuck Moore here. :-)
19:49:44Mat2-codingmy design is philosophical similar but of course different to his work (I use useless instruction combinations for implementing complex instruction-sequences as replacement for example)
19:50:28Mat2-codinglike Swap+Swap, or Add+Drop
19:52:43Araqwell Chuck uses 18 bit words and his instruction set lacks 'shr' iirc
19:52:58Araqit scares me :-)
19:54:16AraqI don't want to go back in time where basic operators have to emulated via loops and non-power-of-2 sizes were common
19:55:35Mat2-codingmy vm uses the native word size, instructions slots are 4 bit wide and all common instructions inclusive multiplication and division are implemented though complex instructions, as described above
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19:58:14Mat2-codingin addition: one can always compile new instructions at runtime from instruction sequences
19:58:35Mat2-codingit's an extensible design
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20:01:43Araqyeah I remember. how do you determine whether a new opcode is beneficial?
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20:02:46Araqwb tylere
20:03:21Mat2-codinghi tylere
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20:04:55Mat2-codingAraq: I analyzed most used ISA's and implemented all common instructions
20:05:43AraqMat2-coding: that's not what I meant. I mean how do you determine this at runtime?
20:06:25AraqI can see how you can compile new instructions from instruction sequences
20:06:44Mat2-codingI have a special instuction 'CS - compile subroutine' for this
20:07:15Araqwhen/how do you inject this CS instruction?
20:07:30tylerehi
20:12:19Mat2-codingah ok, parsing the source-code the environment hold a statistic about most uses instruction patterns. These patterns are compiled to new instructions dependent of it by the code-generator
20:12:48Mat2-codingit's quite easy
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20:13:37Mat2-coding^about most used instruction patterns
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20:16:36Araqit's not easy. how do you implement this statistic and keep memory usage down?
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20:19:25Araqbrb
20:19:26Mat2-codingthe code-generator modifying its own code and for the statistic I use a fixed cache of 32 entries with write-though access
20:19:39tylereHow does Aporia compare to the Rust mode for SublimeText?
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20:32:58Mat2-coding?
20:33:18dom96hello bastian_
20:34:13dom96tylere: Well, Aporia has no Rust support whatsoever.
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20:35:39tylereoh god
20:35:41tylerebrainfart
20:35:47tylereI meant nimrod obviously lol
20:36:24Mat2-codingget some sleep, ciao
20:36:37dom96Probably pretty badly lol.
20:36:52dom96I've never used Sublime Text with Nimrod.
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20:38:40tylereok
20:38:55tylereit seems to be doing ok for me so far...syntax highlighting, basic symbol completion, that kind of thing
20:39:12dom96ST or Aporia?
20:39:17tylereST
20:39:23tylereHaven't downloaded aporia yet
20:39:29tylereas compiling gtk stuff on OS X is...interesting
20:39:38tylereand by interesting I mean about as fun as sitting on a rusty nail
20:40:30Araqcurrently aporia doesn't compile on mac due to an 'interesting' bug
20:40:43Araqhi bastian_ welcome
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20:46:45tylereThe one thing so far that gives me a little bit of pause is char being a byte and not a code point. After using Go, which bakes UTF-8 in, I never want to go back
20:48:56Hannibal_Smithtylere, for example Go can compare string based on a collation?
20:49:57tylereI think so
20:50:10tylerenot 100% sure, I didn't dig that deep into i18n stuff
20:51:02tylereBut stuff like ToUpper is unicode-aware
20:51:14tylereand iterating over a string yeilds complete codepoints
20:51:34tylerelikewise indexing is codepoint based
20:52:39Hannibal_Smithtylere, in theory, the topic a lot more complex
20:52:45tylereright ;)
20:52:53tylereit's not really a big pain point for me, personally
20:52:54Hannibal_SmithSimple thing like uppercasing a unicode char is hard
20:53:13Hannibal_SmithYou have to keep in mind also the contex of the char
20:53:40Hannibal_SmithProbably, the only library that got this stuff right is ICU
20:54:19Hannibal_SmithI'm really hesitant to think that Go has replacement right what ICU do
20:54:30tylereit's mostly probably bad taste in my mouth from python2 unicode handling
20:54:36Hannibal_Smithhttp://userguide.icu-project.org/transforms/casemappings
20:55:29Hannibal_SmithFull (Language-Specific) Case Mapping <-For sure Go can't do this
20:55:43Araq"complete codepoints" are not sufficient either iirc
20:56:51Hannibal_SmithAraq, are you going to write a wrapper for ICU? :-P
20:57:05Araqwe have a unicode module and an encodings module
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20:57:18Araqand it's good enough for me :P
20:57:33Hannibal_SmithSo something basic like Go do, I think
20:57:38tylereMy main preference is that the language not care about unicode when I don't
20:57:42tylerethat's my gripe with python
20:58:05tylereI'll have some data I've slurped in from somewhere, and I want to dump it to a file or something, and Python loves to throw unicode errors
20:58:12tylereinstead of just treating it as bytes
20:58:16tylereworst of both worlds
20:58:33tylereI think that it a bit better in Py3 but I haven't crossed that bridge yet
20:59:08AraqIME py3 is worse
20:59:28Araqwith its crazy unicode exceptions
20:59:37tylereoh it's even worse? ugh
20:59:49Araqand the very existance of "byte string literals" shows it simply doesn't work IMHO
20:59:55tylereMy views on python are kinda conflicted
21:00:13tylereI've used it for a loooong time (like 1.5.2, which is ancient, like 1998 or something)
21:00:45tylereat some point I think Guido kinda changed vision and it went from being a pragmatic language to all that "Zen of Python" stuff, some of which I strongly disagree with
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21:03:29tylereBTW Araq, I skipped around a bit and read the write effec stuff...sounds really sexy
21:03:37tylerebasically an idea I had in my head for years
21:03:50tylereof basically having the compiler do dataflow analysis, and reason accordingly
21:04:11tylereeven if not perfect if it can figure out even 50% of in-practice immutable functions automatically that's a pretty massive win
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21:07:36Araqwell it's near perfect as far as I can tell
21:07:44Araqmuch more than 50%
21:07:46tylerethat's pretty amazing then
21:07:59Araqbut I need to implement it and we'll see
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21:11:56Araqtylere: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combining_character
21:12:19tylereAraq: hehe
21:12:27Araqthis means even utf-32 doesn't map 1 to 1 to "characters"
21:12:28tylereIsn't unicode just the bestest thing ever?
21:12:50Araqso ... it doesn't help and wastes lots of memory and processing power
21:12:54tylereMaybe soon we'll all move to utf-64
21:13:03tylereonce the whole world is 64bit
21:14:42Araqand while strutils.toUpper only works for A-Z the unicode module has a version that "works" with unicode
21:15:20tylereIt's kinda funny, in my American habits, by far the most common unicode chars I encounter are "pretty" quotes
21:15:25tyleree.g. from MS Word
21:15:27Araqbut again, in my experience you need to pass the supposed natural language to the comparison function then
21:15:34tylereactual non-latin characters are fairly rare
21:15:40Araqso ... unicode.toUpper is worthless
21:16:41Araqthis whole "ugh, Nimrod got unicode wrong" is based on ignorance. Everybody gets it "wrong" because it's impossible to get it right.
21:16:50tylereI understand
21:17:22tylereMost people don't even really grok the difference between unicode and an encoding
21:19:19gradhaAraq: "ugh, Nimrod got unicode wrong"?
21:19:45Araqgradha: it's a common criticism
21:19:48Araqbrb
21:20:12gradhahah, you got me there, as if Nimrod was commonly discussed
21:20:55gradhabtw, I have trouble using the ! negation template inside iterators, is it just me or is this a known problem?
21:21:37dom96which template is that?
21:21:59gradhaisn't ! a template which expands to "not something"?
21:22:19dom96I've never heard of it.
21:22:26gradhanever mind, I'm going to write a small test case
21:22:40dom96I use 'not' everywhere.
21:22:58gradhameh, that's like two chars more
21:23:45gradhawasn't aware that there was a separate doc builder
21:24:40Araqwell "common" is relative :P
21:27:44bastian_hey
21:27:53gradhabastian_: yo
21:29:41bastian_couple of questions regarding sequences: are they allocated on the heap? how can they be resized (cf. realloc)? can I simply use mem
21:30:03bastian_memcpy (copyMem) on the addr of a sequence?
21:30:11Araqhell no
21:30:19Araquse newSeq and add
21:31:45bastian_is add automatically resizing it in larger chunks?
21:31:50Araqyes
21:32:33bastian_nice. what about copyMem?
21:32:57AraqcopyMem is a memcpy. so it's a low level operation and generally not necessary
21:33:00bastian_i'd like to port a bitvector library
21:33:06*gradha notices less alcohol during coding would help to avoid facepalms
21:33:10Araquse seqs for that
21:33:23Araqgradha: there is no '!' operator in system.nim
21:33:32gradhaAraq: yeay, "just" noticed
21:35:50bastian_Araq: yeah, a seq of uint8 buckets
21:36:12Araqactually just use a TIntSet
21:36:26Araqit uses a bit vector under the hood
21:36:41Araqit's a sparse bit vector implementation
21:38:17bastian_ah, nice. is it possible to use popcnt on the underlying data?
21:38:17gradhaAraq: I was waiting for you to answer last post of http://forum.nimrod-code.org/t/194
21:38:28bastian_i'll have a look at it
21:38:54Araqbastian_: not yet. patches are welcome
21:41:13Araqgradha: sorry. does it work properly if you change it back to projectPath / genSubDir ?
21:41:56gradhayes
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21:43:18bastian_Araq: looks interesting, but not quite what i'm looking for
21:44:19Araqbastian_: alright well it gives you a start anyway
21:44:36bastian_Araq: yep, thanks a lot!
21:45:02bastian_i'll def. play around with it the comming days
21:47:16Araqgradha: well please fix shortenDir then
21:47:23Araqit must not create full paths
21:47:27Araqand in fact
21:47:53AraqI noticed this bug before
21:48:04gradhain my case it's not generating a full path, but rather a wrong relative path
21:48:35gradhamy question in the post is: what's the purpose of shortenDir? Can't fix it if I don't know the purpose of it
21:48:52gradhaand don't understand what's to "shorten" in projectPath / genSubDir
21:49:22Araqok well the purpose it to transform it into a relative path
21:49:30Araqbecause relative paths rule
21:49:43Araqyou can easily emit them into a generated script
21:49:49Araqthey make error messages shorter
21:50:02Araqyou can move projects and stuff continues to work
21:50:02gradharelative to what?
21:50:08gradhacurrent dir? project path?
21:50:11Araqrelative to the project directory
21:50:21Araqcurrent dir ain't good enough
21:52:59gradhacurrently shortenDir first tries to make a relative path to the app dir, what will break if that changes?
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21:54:08AraqI don't know. we'll see. :-)
21:56:33gradhaanother weird thing is shortenDir doesn't deal with windows drives, does it?
21:56:45Araqit does but implicitly
21:57:38Araqr"C:\data\bu" - r"C:\data" == "bu"
21:57:46Araqthat's the idea anyway
21:58:41gradhaok, good night
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21:59:02Araqgood night
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22:15:42Araqhi bdsatish welcome
22:16:18bdsatishhi :)
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23:20:57C0C0how do I use shr on uint32? can I simply cast the uint32 to a int32 without change in behaviour?
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23:23:13fowlC0C0, import unsigned
23:24:36C0C0coolt thx :)
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23:39:35fowlnp
23:55:04Araqgood night guys