<< 21-07-2015 >>
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02:49:22vbtthi, is Araq here?
02:50:05vbttwondering how oscon went..
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08:36:49federico3right! We want the videos! \o/
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09:14:57wirbiHello! How I can compile something like this https://gist.github.com/wirbi7/bcec60bfa37960e278cf ?
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09:35:49fowlwirbi move B to be inside A
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10:52:19baabelfishany timeline for the recursive iterators?
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11:19:27fowlr-ku are continuations in devel yet
11:22:52r-kunah
11:22:58r-kui dont think they gonna be there soon
11:23:06r-kuunless someone writes some arm asm code :D
11:29:13r-kufowl if you want to test you pretty much can - https://github.com/r-ku/Nim/blob/coroutines/lib/pure/coro.nim
11:29:31r-kux86/x64/linux(other unixes?)/windows should work
11:29:52r-kurequirement is --gc:markAndSweep
11:34:36baabelfishr-ku: I read it from some iterator tutorial
11:37:51r-kuwell baabelfish i heard nothing about recursive iterators. but coroutines would be closest thing to that.
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12:23:35reactormonkr-ku, callcc doesn't work on arm?
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12:29:52r-kureactormonk not sure what callcc is
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13:22:14coffeepotcan i directly cast memory to a string or will only cstring work because of some kind of string header info?
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13:22:47coffeepotI'm trying to read a buffer of bytes and produce a unicode string
13:24:59coffeepotsee, with a string i think i can just do fastRuneAt.
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13:52:52r-kucoffeepot cast it to cstring and convert it to string
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13:53:09r-kulike $cast[cstring](p)
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14:01:38coffeepotr-ku huh that's neat :) is $cast[cstring](p) the same as for c in cstr: s.add(c)
14:02:26coffeepotah anyway it doesn't really matter. I prefer brevity of your approach :)
14:03:53r-kucoffeepot string is just byte array
14:04:13r-kubtw i think you can even do var s: string = cast[cstring](p)
14:05:00coffeepotnice, thanks :) now to deal with the horrors of unicode... :)
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15:04:45drewsremI'm trying to find out the size of Cs basic types at compile-time, i.e. sizeof char/short/int/long/longlong etc. - AFAIS Nim only provides sizeof(int), any pointers?
15:05:21def-drewsrem: sizeof(cint)?
15:06:05def-and same with cchar, cshort, clong, clonglong
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15:13:24drewsremdef-, those are std c sizes
15:13:44drewsremFrom lib/system: cint* {.importc: "int", nodecl.} = int32
15:13:57drewsremThey're not native apparently
15:14:21def-that's strange, they're supposed to be used for interacting with C code, so they should be native size
15:14:48drewsrem:|
15:15:23drewsremThey'd have to be magic tho right?
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15:16:17def-not sure how this is supposed to work. maybe sizeof can just be inaccurate for these types, hm
15:16:29drewsremAny idea for a workaround?
15:16:45def-yes, I'm trying one with an emit
15:16:51drewsremDoes emit work at compile-time?
15:16:55reactormonknope
15:16:56drewsreme.g. in macros?
15:16:58drewsremI figured
15:17:06def-anyway, if sizeof(cint) is ever wrong, then that's a bug and should be fixed
15:17:25drewsremWell it's not wrong right, it justs uses the standardized sizes instead of native
15:18:01def-if you really want to know C's type sizes at compile time you might want to compile a small C program and check the output, as configure does. not really a nice solution though
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15:18:22drewsremyeah I thought of that too, I can execute processes at compileTime right?
15:18:38def-right, staticExec
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15:18:44def-and writing to files works too
15:18:47drewsremthanks, I'll do this for now
15:19:57wuehlmaushttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKK9I-OvZng
15:20:03wuehlmausfirst spotted nim video :)
15:20:45def-wuehlmaus: there's also a video of the German talk I did a year ago about Nim
15:20:46drewsremdef-, comment tho says "This is the same as the type ``short`` in *C*." - so it seems you're right, they were intended as to have native size
15:21:26def-drewsrem: right, but how can we reliably know what size C types will have? not sure how to solve this best
15:22:00drewsremdef-, I think this needs magic
15:22:19wuehlmausdef-: great, on youtube?
15:23:19def-wuehlmaus: not that i know, it's here: https://media.ccc.de/browse/conferences/gpn/gpn14/gpn14_-_5892_-_de_-_zkm-vortragssaal_-_201406211130_-_nimrod_-_dennis_felsing.html the slides might make sense without German: http://felsin9.de/nnis/nimrod/nimrod-gpn14.pdf
15:24:38drewsremAraq, cint in lib/system is always an int32 and not native-size, I'm trying to determine native-size of a short at compile-time and it seems this is currently not possible, am I misinterpreting things?
15:25:40renesacdrewsrem: what plataform are you trying?
15:26:24renesacare you cross-compiling?
15:26:27wuehlmausdef-: jippie Chaos Computer Club, it rules :)
15:26:38drewsremrenesac, x86_64, but it doesn't matter, cshort is defined as: type cshort* {.importc: "short", nodecl.} = int16
15:26:51drewsremrenesac, so cshort is always int16
15:27:32drewsremrenesac, same for cint etc.
15:27:53renesacstrange
15:28:22renesacI use clong.sizeof here and it gives 8, as it should
15:28:37drewsremrenesac, devel-branch?
15:28:40renesaceven though in the documentation it is written "clong = int32"
15:28:43renesacyes
15:28:47drewsremme too
15:29:11def-renesac: there is a when defined(windows)
15:29:28renesachum, so it is hardcoded
15:29:32drewsremoh right
15:29:47renesacnim needs a way to get c values
15:30:34def-renesac: well, not possible at compile time without invoking the c compiler
15:31:10def-I think the idea is just to add more when-blocks as we notice more systems with other definitions of C types
15:31:40renesacnot a really good solution
15:31:57renesacthere are many other things dependent of c/plataform values
15:32:16renesacfor example, nim still uses posix_gettimeofday() for the gc on linux
15:32:38renesacinstead of clock_gettime(CLOCK_REALTIME, t)
15:33:13FedeOmotorenesac: that's because the documentation was probably generated on Win64
15:33:26renesacthere is an "elif defined(posixRealtime):" but this is never entered, because that value would need to be read from a C header
15:33:29renesacand nim don't do it
15:33:36FedeOmotorenesac: Win64 is LLP64
15:33:51renesacFedeOmoto: yes, I understood
15:34:15drewsremdef-, is invoking the c compiler during compile-time a problem? - How does nim know the size of a normal int? - It's magic in lib/system
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15:34:31drewsremNormal int type does seem to be native size
15:34:43renesacI think those things are on https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/blob/devel/lib/nimbase.h
15:35:12def-drewsrem: i consider it a problem, yes. how do you invoke the c compiler when you're just compiling to C and creating a script to build it on the target machine?
15:35:30def-there might not be a c compiler and it might be the wrong one
15:35:34drewsremdef-, good point
15:35:53drewsremAraq could probably settle this in a minute or so :)
15:35:58renesacif you are using things depending on C, you need a C compiler
15:36:03drewsremSo I'm just going to work around this atm
15:36:21renesacor else some other way to get those C plataform information
15:38:55FedeOmotodrewsrem: what are you trying to achieve?
15:39:36drewsremFedeOmoto, read an aligned native-sized cstruct from a binary-file
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15:42:46FedeOmotoand so, what's the problem doing it?
15:44:10drewsremLets say I have a binary.file with 10 longs, I now want to read those 10 longs in order to do that I need to know how many bytes a long is
15:44:58drewsremI mean that's easy because I know its 10 elements long and could calculate from that, but you get the point
15:45:45wuehlmaus
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15:47:21wuehlmaussorry
15:48:05renesacanyway, reading the value of something defined in C is a long standing wish of mine...
15:48:27renesacI tried hacking something with emit, but it seems to be impossible
15:49:21drewsremIsn't there something where you can query CPU architecture in Nim?
15:50:53drewsremah hostCPU, there we go
15:51:05renesacI wrote this a few days ago: https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/wiki/Consts-defined-by-the-compiler
15:51:25renesacbut unfortunatedly there is nothing on the level of http://dlang.org/phobos/core_cpuid.html
15:51:41renesacto discover the cache size, for example
15:51:58drewsremrenesac, not bad core.cpuid
15:52:17renesac?
15:52:53drewsremrenesac, it's nice that dlang has this
15:53:04renesacyeah
15:53:49renesachowever I fleed from Dlang because it's horrible GC that would leak memory like crazy, as it was not precise
16:01:27FedeOmotodrewsrem: how about this: http://pastebin.com/MN7aT9gC
16:01:37FedeOmoto:)
16:06:19drewsremFedeOmoto, now you have 5 different structs with different ctypes, and you have an order in which you read them, some of them have the same total size, but different fields with different field_sizes
16:07:11FedeOmotodrewsrem: again, I don't see the problem reading those structs from Nim...
16:07:39drewsremFedeOmoto, you have a stream of longs, and you want to read one long at a time
16:08:29drewsremFedeOmoto, if you can solve this I'll tip my hat to you
16:09:20FedeOmotoyou can use system.readBuffer to read those longs
16:12:43drewsremOh sure, how many bytes do I read?
16:13:00drewsremI got this fancy bytestream here and I know it passes me native longs
16:13:29FedeOmotosizeof(clong) * the number of longs you have in the stream
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16:13:48drewsremFedeOmoto, see that's the problem, you haven't read what I wrote and now we're at a point where I have to repeat myself
16:13:58drewsremclong is not the size of a native long
16:14:11FedeOmotoyes, it's the size of a native long
16:14:25drewsremIf you're on windows: clong* {.importc: "long", nodecl.} = int32
16:14:33drewsremDirecty from lib/system
16:14:37FedeOmotothat's right
16:14:57FedeOmotoyou're the one who haven't read what I wrote ;)
16:14:59drewsremSo long is always 4 bytes?
16:15:03FedeOmotoWin64 is LLp64
16:15:14FedeOmotoso a clong in Win64 y 4 bytes long
16:15:23FedeOmotono
16:15:29drewsremNative size
16:15:33FedeOmotolong y 4 bytes on LLp64
16:15:37FedeOmotoyeah
16:15:48drewsremSo now I'm on linux
16:15:59drewsremcshort is now int16
16:16:12drewsremEvery short on Linux is 2 bytes native size?
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16:16:32FedeOmotolinux is LP64, so a clong y 8 bytes
16:16:39FedeOmotodrewsrem: http://www.unix.org/version2/whatsnew/lp64_wp.html
16:16:54FedeOmotodrewsrem: yes
16:16:58drewsremThen what does native size matter if you can hardcode it depending on OS?
16:17:16drewsremMaybe that's my brain misunderstanding native size and cpu architecture
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16:17:51FedeOmotothat's nothing to do with cpu architectures, it's the programming model what matters
16:18:08FedeOmotoagain, please take a look at: http://www.unix.org/version2/whatsnew/lp64_wp.html
16:18:14drewsremI am
16:20:09FedeOmotoif you're not developing a programming language, you can forget about the different programming models (most of the time...), just use Nim's sizeof and you'll be fine :)
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16:30:14drewsremFedeOmoto, well that explains a lot, big thanks, the issues I were seeing then were simply because the file was written in Windows and I was reading them in Linux
16:31:01FedeOmotoyou're welcome
16:33:28drewsremFedeOmoto, but it doesn't quite adhere to "the" C standard, right
16:34:24drewsremBut it's fine as long as you write applications for common OSes
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16:35:29FedeOmotowhy do you think it doesn't adhere to the C standard?
16:35:58sparrkHow does one write a proc that changes a string in-place? I tried looking around the Nim source code but I had trouble finding any that did.
16:35:59drewsremhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C_data_types#Basic_types - The actual size of integer types varies by implementation. The standard only requires size relations between the data types and minimum sizes for each data type
16:36:12FedeOmotoexactly
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16:36:31FedeOmotothe C standard only defines the minimun sizes for basic types
16:36:35drewsremAnd lib/system just hardcodes different sizes according to the OS
16:36:53FedeOmotohmmm
16:37:09drewsremThat's the issue we talked above
16:37:15drewsremBut I'm fine now :)
16:37:16FedeOmotoI don't think so, I think this information is extracted from C header files
16:37:32drewsremFedeOmoto, it's not, that's why I quoted system.nim
16:37:53FedeOmotothat'd be surprising
16:37:57drewsremFedeOmoto, https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/blob/devel/lib/system.nim#L1314
16:38:07drewsremclong = int32
16:38:19drewsremah
16:38:20drewsrembad example
16:38:32drewsremhttps://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/blob/devel/lib/system.nim#L1332
16:38:37drewsremCshort is always int16
16:38:44drewsrem# these work for most platforms:
16:39:35drewsremI don't know why I keep picking on long :)
16:43:10drewsremI'm not sure tho anymore, because the size might be inferred from the importc? - I need to let this sit with me for a while
16:43:52FedeOmotoI hope so (that size if inferred from the importc)
16:43:58FedeOmoto*is
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16:45:29drewsremBut then it would still error out on Nims compile-time "bounds-checks" when you go above an int16?
16:46:15drewsremNote a normal int works completely by magic: https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/blob/devel/lib/system.nim#L33
16:47:29FedeOmotomaybe Nim's C type should be implemented that way too
16:48:37FedeOmotoI still have to see a platform where a C short is not 16 bits long
16:50:10drewsremmhm, it's probably no practical problem, but it doesn't adhere to the C standard and the comment e.g. "## This is the same as the type ``short`` in *C*" is thus arguably wrong
16:50:22drewsremBut I take there are actual issues that have more priority
16:56:15FedeOmotowell, IIRC Cray has a few instructions that that up to 48 bits, I wouldn't be surprising if a basic type is 48 bits long there...
16:57:20FedeOmotothat that = that take
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19:17:51sparrkI want to update the documentation on this webpage: http://nim-lang.org/docs/strutils.html which git repo do I do that from?
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19:25:26sparrk:(?
19:28:26reactormonksparrk, it's in the main repo, try ./lib/pure/strutils.nim
19:30:45sparrkAhh, I grepped for a keyword, and it didn't show up because of parsing. Thanks.
19:31:59sparrkhow does the extern: "nsu..." work?
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19:44:27reactormonkdunno
19:44:52reactormonkinstead of mangling the name, you explicitly set them
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20:55:19baabelfishI would like to iterate over tuple and call new(tuplefield) for each of them
20:55:31baabelfishjust can't figure out how
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21:34:46wuehlmausdef-: perhaps you could put your very fine video on youtube so that more people find it
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21:39:15wuehlmausit's really worth it and can foster nim i think. sorry folks, it's in german
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22:48:04Araqhi guys
22:52:30FedeOmotohey
22:53:59Araqso my oscon tutorial has been recorded and will be online ... eventually, as usual
22:57:18def-hi Araq. nice
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23:00:40vbttHi Araq
23:00:49Araqhey
23:00:50vbttJust saw the tutorial slides - pretty nice.
23:01:05vbtthad to rename slidy2 -> Slidy2 on linux here :)
23:01:19Araqah ok
23:02:08vbtthow was it received?
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23:02:55Araqnot sure, I think it was fine. Had a couple of glitches though. Mostly due to the jetlag
23:03:21vbtthow many people?
23:03:55Araqaround 20
23:04:29Araqwhich is a bit sad
23:04:40vbttnice - looking forward to the video
23:08:00VarriountAraq: I though it was quite good!
23:09:11Varriount*thought
23:11:21Araqhow was your flight? everything went fine?
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23:22:28Araqso ... reading the logs. yes, Nim doesn't care about the "C standard", we care about the C implementations instead.
23:23:08Araqaccording to the C standard even memcmp for structs is impossible afaik
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23:48:07Araqhrm ... why do we map 'void' to 'empty' ? -.-
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23:49:59vbttAraq: re: which is a bit sad
23:50:40vbttdon't worry, honestly oscon is good but a bit 'enterprisey'
23:51:03Araqgood choice of words
23:51:20vbttso maybe not the perfect audience, but more visibility is better than less.
23:52:17Araqat one point I'll just do it like Jonathan Blow (did I spell that correctly?)
23:52:28vbttlooks right.
23:52:31vbttgreat idea!
23:52:54Araqand re-invent thread local storage without noticing ;-)
23:53:04Araqbut as a youtube video
23:53:32vbttyeah, try hangouts on air - might be easy to get started without too much software fiddling.
23:53:59vbttit automatically becomes a youtube video
23:58:27vbttok, now i don't know if you were joking about making the video or just about reinventing something :)
23:59:17Araqno, I wasn't joking about the video